We Complained...GRAND SEIKO Listened.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- With the unvealing of the Evolution 9 line, Grand Seiko has addressed many of the issues I had with my 2019 SBGA415. In this video, we take a look at the new SLGA007 lake Suwa limited edition and see if this is finally that perfect Grand Seiko I've been waiting for.
Discuss this watch with me on WatchCrunch: www.watchcrunch.com/Max/posts/grand-seiko-is-open-to-your-feedback-14603
I live by Seattle also - what’s the best location to buy and shop Grand Seiko for us? I’m looking at the SBGA415, SLGA009, SLGA007
I might be the only one saying This but I like the power reserve on the front. Is something to be proud of and a absolutely super useful complication I check my power reserve the whole time in my GMT spring drive
Beauty is very subjective 😉
I agree. Power reserve indicator is one of the most useful complications out there. I mean I might it most useful right after time and date. You need power reserve information way more often than say GMT, chronograph, moon phase or other functions. PR indicator is so damn underrated in watches. I just wish manufacturers would come up with more creative and visually pleasing ways to implement it.
I agree a power reserve is useful, but as long as I am wearing it, I don't ever have to look at it since it will never run out. So having it on the back is just great, it allows you to look at it when you put it on or off, but it doesn't ruin the fantastic dial design.
I agree with Eikenhorst. Power reserve is only needed when putting on the watch to know if the time needs to be adjusted so it could just as well be on the back. I can’t think of a reason to check it again while wearing it. Especially with 180 hours of reserve.
For me the date window is something that needs to be removed. So if you ask me I would rather remove date window than power indicator. But they do not listen to me 😂.
Stunning watch! I love the power reserve indicator on the back side of the movement. That was a clever move. I disagree with Max on the date window though. I find that date windows that match darkly colored dials don’t have enough contrast to be easily seen. I think they nailed it the way it is.
Black on white or white on black technically have the same contrast
@@xpusostomos I have a watches that go both ways. I universally find that it’s much easier to see the date on a white background, maybe I have old eyes.🤷🏻♂️
@@brettkeeler8822 perhaps... More light reflected and all... But it's not contrast
Agree. First and foremost a watch is a device to tell time. I need all elements to be legible so design aspects take second to that functionality.
@@xpusostomos But not the same legibility.
I actually like the power reserve on the dial, adds to the character of the spring drive movement itself given the user experience when winding it and seeing it move. Just my take on it though.
Same! I never understood the power reserve hate, especially one like on the Winter. It adds even more interesting texture and pattern to the dial and I love the asymmetry of it.
Grand Seiko epitomizes a culture of forever striving for perfection. That's the reason why the makers listen to the fans.
Really good point! They evolve, like nature that inspires their designs 👌
You said it perfectly. When you’re wearing a GS, you truly are wearing a piece of art on the wrist! 💕
I wanna swim in the dial 😍
This is probably the nicest GS I’ve seen. Great review as always thank you
Great review again, Max!
The Lake Suwa model has a SPECTACULAR dial! Wow I want one.
GS dials are artistic masterpieces. Especially the silver and pink dials. Another fantastic video.
My wife got me a Hotaka Peaks GMT in December and I absolutely love it. I have been a Seiko fan for decades and now a GS fan, the spring drive movement is mesmerizing and the dials are pure art, the polishing and fit and finish are top notch. I feel for the price you are getting an incredible watch.
this one could possibly be my first
blue-dial watch. love it. mad respect.
I actually like the power window on some of their dials and I usually don't like complications or even date windows very often
Another solid GS video! Gotta love. Keep them coming Max.
Thank you Blake!
Love this comparison Max! GS is definitely going in the right direction with the bracelets, hope to keep seeing more improvements
Thanks Derek! Yeah I'm hoping to do a video in 2025 called "I have nothing more to complain about" 🤣
Great video. I just discovered your channel. Loving it. This watch is georgeous.
Beautiful watch! That blue dial really is mesmerizing!
Shunbun bro here. Great video!
I have always disliked dates on dials. However, the Shunbun was somewhat different for me as the power reserve really balances the date window well for me. Even though I fell in love with the pink dial, It could be possible that the watch wouldn't have spoke to me the same way it did with the power reserve.
Keep up the good work!
If GS did a spring drive piece with a vanta black dial they’d have my money in a heartbeat. The contrast between the dial and their high polished hands and hr markers would be stunning.
About the bracelets…GS uses pin-sleeves on its titanium watches, screws on the steel ones. Your Winter is made from titanium, that’s why it has pin-sleeves. I believe the new Evolution 9 “Night Birch” being made from titanium, still uses pin-sleeves on the bracelet. I don’t know why GS does this, maybe something to do with screws on titanium working themselves loose more easily, or the opposite…becoming too “sticky” so to speak with titanium 🤷♂️
Good to know! Thanks for the heads up
If the Ti bracelet links were threaded then in order to to prevent galvanic corrosion between SS and Ti the screws would need to be machined from Ti as well, and machining Ti is already difficult enough as is without having to machine teeny tiny screws and threads. That’s my guess anyway.
@@SonikDethmonkey I see, thanks for the info. So “sticky” was sort of right then 😏
This is what GS claims yet somehow, other manufacturers - Tudor, for example - produce full Ti bracelets with screw adjust links with zero issues. I’m a GS fan and am about to buy a second one but their bracelets and clasps… man, they’re just subpar.
It's probably impossible to machine threads of this size into titanium
I have to agree....the changes to this watch is pretty amazing.
They are soooo close!
Moving the power reserve indicator to the back is genius! I need that information but not as a disruption to the dial. Man, this is looking great!
Spot on for you comment on the date window. What a shame, I wish it matched the color of that beautiful dial.
Great improvements by GS. Would love to see them now implement thinner cases and female end links into newer releases.
Grand Seiko has carved it's niche within it's competition with their outstanding dials and innovative movements. However, I can't help but point out that Rolex and Tudor still run circles around GS when it comes down to their bracelets.
Yep, but at this rate of improvement, Rolex should be sweating 😅
Are you comparing the hidden clasp Rolex with these semi hidden grand Seiko, or are you comparing the super bulky sports Rolex clasp? Compare apples with apples.
Yeah but omega puts both GS, Rolex and Tudor, clasps and bracelets from Omega are the reason Rolex at long last after years of rubbish bracelets now make a decent product and I speak from experience Rolex used to be garbage bracelets and clasps!
Having owned many modern Rolexes over the years, I actually really love the bracelet on my SLGA009. I wouldn’t say it’s better than a Rolex bracelet, but it’s far better than the snowflakes bracelet and definitely holds it’s own against a non diver Rolex.
@@maxma01 if this was a newer brand I would agree with you but Grand Seiko should not be improving their bracelets, it should have been great from the beginning. They have so much knowledge and know how and they pay such attention to detail that it is unacceptable for us fans to see such little effort being put into the bracelet. It’s like knowing your friend or kid has so much potential but they just don’t make an effort but you love them nonetheless 🙃
What a cool ass watch 😁 great job getting the dial to show. It’s hard!
Thanks for making this vid happen 😊
Stunning. Following Grand Seiko closely, hoping for a perfectly updated snowflake some day. I do feel that the markers on this model is a step back though. I felt like the old, simpler, shaper markers fit so well with the heritage and "nationality" of the brand. Here's to hoping they one day hit it just right.
Yeah I feel like they did with the SLGA009. The markers are "sportier" to match the Evo9 design language. Definitely not as dressy as before
Nice piece again Max, and a fabulous watch. The male centre on the bracelet end link has to go for smaller wrists. Makes it wear bigger than it needs to, as it stands. My SBGA373 is on a strap in part for that reason. I actually like the power reserve on the front but it seems I'm in the minority. For me with a GS you actually feel the care that went into producing it when you wear it.
Good point! I can barely pull this one off
just a friendly reminder that your videos are stunning
Something to note: screwed links aren't new to Grand Seiko bracelets. For all of them, they use pins and sleeves for titanium, and screws for steel. For example, the Evolution 9 bracelets for titanium models still use pins and sleeves, and the older steel bracelets use screws. That being said, every other improvement mentioned is completely accurate. Also, the Evo9 Chrono does have micro adjust on the clasp! Yay!
EDIT: Also, the reason for pins on the titanium is because screws have a higher failure rate from the threads wearing over time, and even more so with titanium. I'm not sure how AP handles it on their titanium models, but it's the reason why Patek switched from screws to pins on Nautilus bracelet--pins are more secure and necessary for the super thin Nautilus bracelet.
Yes, I remember hearing that. Thanks for the clarification!
Beautiful watch... great macro work - really made the most of the GS :)
Lake Suwa is beautiful. I'm a month into my first GS, the Sea of Clouds. It's definitely like wearing a little work of art on my wrist. Beautiful! Seemed like a good value at $3800!
Welcome to the club, they are really beautiful 😉
Crazy how their marketing is working, to make you say that...
@@vianouche1 What marketing? GS is literally the less marketed luxury brand, everyone who buys one does it for the incredible quality of the dials and movements.
Great video as always! That SLGA is amazing! I might pull the trigger on it if it was the same price as the snowflake, but I have a hard time paying this price for a watch. One day I'll get past this issue.
The price is hard to swallow
👍👍👍. welcome changes for the new model. great video
Thank you 😊
Thanks for the vid, excellent commentary!
Appreciate that 🙏
Stunning watch and near perfect as you say. I’ve been wanting to get a Grand Seiko for sometime, but can’t get over those chunky, non-tapering bracelets. They need to have a bit more taper to truly make them the best.
You got that right!
Thanks for sharing. That wave dial is awesome. I love the 4 seasons dial but I am not a fan of Titanium.
Love the back power reserve, very Moser, I always thought putting the ugliest and least symmetrical complication, on the worlds second best dials was counter intuitive to say the least.
Yes definitely better off the dial 👌
Spring drive meter on the front is kinda cool. Makes the face so unique
I love the front power reserve complication. Useful, interesting looking and a differentiator from the “same old same old” I guess that’s why people in the watch industry say if you design a watch from watch hobbyists wishes it will result in the most boring watch ever created
@@davidgant6720 Different strokes.....
For me having the power reserve on the front is so important. I look at it the WHOLE time because I change watches the whole time from one to another
Just bought the slga009 while I was in Ginza. One of my grail watch 😊.
Nice to also see a 11.7mm thickness on GS.
Love The vids! Keep it up
Thanks buddy 😊
I love your channel. I have Hi-Beat limited edition GMT. And I recently bought the same winter dial spring drive you. Why? Because I realised GS had ‘listened’. I’ve always avoided Spring Drive because I don’t like the power gauge. But when I realised it might be a thing of the past for some reason involving reverse logic I had to have it. Sometimes imperfections make something perfect. One of the comment on the new watch you’re talking about and the silver birch … That our hand is absolutely atrocious. Why is the great big clumsy our hand dominating the dial. It’s more of an aberration than the power gauge in my humble opinion. So, if your eyes can’t tell the difference between an hour and a minute hand unless their design is mismatched then you need better glasses.
You are spot on about the daft logo on the case back
Seiko's are truly Masters
Excellent video. I agree about the date window and especially the removal of that awful lion on the display caseback. I would love to know who thought it was a good idea. However, I much prefer the older hands. That is what Grand Seiko does best. I don't find the new hands aesthetically pleasing at all. But is doesn't matter what I think. Enjoy
I want GS in my collection, but I need a Spring Drive in 38/9mm with a tapered bracelet with Micro adjustments. I have a smaller round wrist and watches have to fit perfect or they don't get wrist time. I'm waiting for the perfect GS and it'll be my grail watch. The lake dial and simple yet sporty indices with gold accents are near perfect for me on this one, but still waiting.
Great video! One thing on the bracelets - I had heard Joe Kirk mention that the reason for the taper to 20mm was that having the clasp width half the size of the case improves the balance on the wrist. After owning the SLGA009 (white birch spring drive) I can definitely say the smaller taper helps the watch feel less top heavy and more balanced and actually improves wearability. With microadjustments, while I understand the gripe, what I don’t get it is why I don’t hear others complains as much about this when it comes to AP or Moser who don’t have on the fly adjustments. Also, the lack of microadjustments helps keep a smaller clasp (something I like). We often forget or don’t realize that these choices have a reasoning behind them, something the watchmakers likely have put a lot of thought behind.
I like my watches tight on the wrist so that's less issue with being top heavy. Plus they don't taper the titanium watch bracelet more and that watch is a feather 😁
@@WatchCrunchOfficial They need to taper these bracelets. I got the SBGW289 and was so annoyed with the dichotomy of the actual watch, which is painfully elegant, and the almost rude inelegance of that non-tapered bracelet. I immediately swapped it out for a dress strap and the watch instantly made sense.
The colorless watermark on the display caseback isn’t new to GS, my 4 year old snowflake has this too. Glad to hear they went back to it.
The evolution 9 is absolutely gorgeous.
Cracking job they did!
Wow that watch looks an is Amazing. A beautiful watch.
Grand Seiko are a movement company second?! It took over 30 years for the revolutionary Spring Drive system to come to light! Brand Seiko create art in dials AND movements!
Great video of a good looking watch. Imo the contrasting white date wheel is a thing of beauty. Submariners have the same white date wheel. Yet I have never come across anyone complaining. 😊 Keep up the good work man
The sweep is divine!
👌🤩
The lake suwa is a grail for me, that dial! The pinion cap does add refinement imo as well. A real shame there is no bracelet adjustment on the fly, especially at this price.
Yeah it's a let down, but you can use multiple the 0.75 links to get a personal fit
Titanium Evo 9 case, tapered bracelet with micro-adjustment, GMT Spring Drive movement, 200m WR, Power reserve on the back. I’d sign up in a flash.
Agree about the date window on the Suwa. A color matched window would go a long way. I almost pulled the trigger on that watch but that was one of the things bugging me, that and the price of the Suwa being around twice what my SGBA203.
Honestly love the power reserve indicator. I really hate that it's on the back since it's such a neat thing to have to look at and it's a bit useless to have on the back. I didn't like their implementation since the way they cut those lines into the dial did make it intrusive but not really ugly. Honestly really wish they would've just made that needle float on the dial and only have two little lines to indicate empty and full with nothing in between. I'm gearing up to buy my first spring drive since i can finally afford one but i just love looking at power reserve needles. I want to look at it on the dial not the back.
I never objected to the power reserve on the front, but one thing about the new movement is that the pr can be put on either the front or the back. The evolution 9 diver uses the exact movement only the pr is on the front
Grand Seiko watches are stunning 😍
So good 👌
That dial is to die for !
Duuude 😍
Love the indicator on my sbge255.
A great video for great watches 👏👏👏 congrats!
Thank you 😊
Am I the only one who prefers the power reserve on the front of the dial?
Weightwise, the titanium SLGA019 is a big improvement, but it lacks the gold accents of the SLGA007 and is still a bit bigger than I would like, so I'm unsure whether to buy one of those soon or see what Seiko announces next.
Great watch review, cheers.
Great video! Just picked up the White Birch (SLGH005)… what’s your opinion on the movement as opposed to the Spring Drive?
Having the Minamo (SLGA007) it is not only a stunningly beautiful watch but also an unbelievable accurate one. After 6 months basically 0 seconds difference with my atomic clock radio controlled Casio Oceanus. It is totally insane. Definitely a keeper and completely on par with Omega or Rolex. Just one tiny issue…..why not giving the hands it some lume?? Otherise brilliant and congrats with your purchase.
Damn, Spring drive ftw 🙌
Dude ur getting to 50 k …I’m impressed
Thanks man! Remember when you sent me the spring for my first GS vid? 😎👍
@@WatchCrunchOfficial Started from the spring and now we here :)
I bought the SBGA019 last week in Korea and it is the perfect watch. It is so lite that I forget that I have it on sometime. I thought that the titanium couldn't be scratched but I got one already. I'm not sure how that happened.
The new hour hand is actually the deciding factory why I DIDN'T get the new model (Birch Spring Drive) and instead went with the Cherry Blossom.
I have an SBGA083 approx 2015, and the power reserve is just painted on the dial, just one line, I actually like it. I never knew why they cut the power reserve into the dial on the newer models? nicer on the back.
This is very nice indeed.
Moving the power reserve indicator to the back of the watch is a _huge_ improvement. Obviously, there was somebody at GS who wanted it on the dial (maybe the original designer?) whose howling about it was finally ignored - or maybe the guy retired. In any event, yeah, it messed up what were otherwise gorgeous dials. I pulled the trigger on my first GS recently, and went for the all-quartz SBGP017 just to get a dial that wouldn't annoy the hell out of me every time I looked at it (same dial as your Four Seasons, but in a pale blue.) It has the same insane accuracy - it's still dead-on after six months - and the same bracelet as you got on your SBGA415. I still lust after the spring drive movement, though, and maybe I'll eventually cough up the price for one of these new, better-looking versions.
Agree re the date window ... color-matching is catching on with many brands ... but with a dark blue dial you'd need white numerals.
Thanks for sharing! I have an SGBP015, and I love it, but I want to upgrade to a Spring Drive or Hi Beat at some point. I just can't get enough of a smoother sweeping seconds hand, and I want to see the movement running in the back. GS Quartz is the best in the business, though!
@@henryreed6237 The SBGA415 sapphire back does let me stare at the battery. I'm not sure who thought that was something worth adding to the watch, but there it is. 🙄
Wow, falling in love with this watch, but the price... well a bit out of reach.
Yeah man, GS inflation is real 😅
It's all subjective. I have the sbga203 with the power reserve on the dial, a nice little extra Japanese touch as it reminds me of a fan. The bracelet fits perfectly I wouldn't want anything different ...
As someone that owns the “poor man’s snowflake” SRB165 Sharp edge, and hopes to get a spring drive comparable someday. This is a model that I am interested in.
But $3000 more?
These price increase will have me saving forever 😬
I want a new and improved winter....leave the indicaton on the dial I like it
They need to address the adjustable clasp on their sport models. I am a huge believer in on-the-fly micro adjust if you're going to own a bracelet. The tic-toc case sized micro adjust on their current divers is unusable for any kind of computer work. If Rolex, Omega, Breitling, and many others can make a small micro adjust, then surely GS is up to this task.
Im really close to considering a grand seiko
I may be in the minority, but I think GS's power reserve distinctly set them apart from the other brands. It was a unique feature that was instantly recognizable as not only a GS, but a GS Spring Drive; the most unique innovation to the watch world in a very long time. By listening to customers too much, I think brands lose a clear point of view that makes the brand, THE Brand. - Example: Rolex stuck with their cyclops date magnifier. Many complain that it is unnecessary and ruins the sleekness of the overall dial-side experience, but now it's THE thing that is instantly recognizable as Rolex, even from a distance.
Creating a heritage that people accept and understand is only achieved by sticking to the differentiating points of view that make the brand unique. With the frequency of models being released by GS (limited edition models at that), I think they are hurting the longterm success of the brand because nothing sticks around long enough for people to love and when looking through the models as a newcomer they get overwhelmed.
Having said all of this, I love my GS watches and have focused on celebrating their brand uniqueness by owning a 9F GMT (SBGN003) and a 44GS case Spring Drive (SBGA375).
I want one badly now. If only they had an awesome bracelet!!!!
Two words will make Grand Seiko the ultimate brand:
MICRO ADJUST
It baffles me how Seiko has better clasps than Grand Seiko.
On the fly micro adjust (like T-Fit, or Glide Lock) would be perfection.
The lack of micro adjust is the reason why my SBGE205 has been unworn for almost a year.
Yeah man, they need to hire a cracking bracelet team!
@@WatchCrunchOfficial Max, do you ever find that Grand Seiko has legibility issues in certain light?
I find that the polished hands of their heritage models often makes it hard to read the time.
the winter dial with no power reserve would be the best
I still think that at 40mm diameter, the 22mm lug width really throws off the proportions
Yeah it's still too big for me
22 on a 40 should have similar look to a 20mm on a 38mm like the sarb line which is perfect
Great content, agree!. I want one, but you did mention GS raised price $3k, ugh! Did you make clear, limited production 2021 watches, and on the "gray market" they're $10k+. Alas. 😔
Yeah it's nuts man, they are going after JLC at this point
It “deserves a spot in my collection”, yes, now how to pay for it!
One thing still missing is lume. I had an SBGE 249 and ended up selling it for that reason.
I own the sakura and the power reserve on the front is actually adding more to its uniqueness. Also i prefer simpler design of the hour hand it adds to its elegance without saying much. This GS in the video is more modern than classic imo.
Spring drive now!!
If it came in a titanium case, I'd be very interested. Otherwise I'm still going with the SBGA415
Song used at the beginning of the video? Hauntingly beautiful
I still want an on-the-fly adjustment
I got my first grand seiko… I came from a Rolex submariner (still have it) BUT my biggest gripe so far is the bracelet… it is a clinky, sloppy, loose sort of cheap feeling mess… this is on a watch that costs $12,000 😅 I really wish they’d spend a little more R&D time on their bracelets. Other than that, the dial, the precision of the spring drive, the complications etc are amazing even the case finishing is beautiful but the bracelet gives off $500 seiko vibes.
Definitely taper the bracelet some more. The White Birch 2 is my grail watch...
The number one thing Grand Seiko needs to do is make their watches smaller. Most of their watches are just too big I feel for a lot of wrists and they use Male end links on top of that. They did just come out with a couple 34 mm versions of their quarts watch with a 9F movement which are beautiful. That’s a step on the right direction. Besides that all they really have is one 37mm watch that’s quartz and their manually hand wound watch at 37mm.
My understanding is that the new spring drive movements are quite wide
You don’t like 16mm thick dress watches?
Really? what makes you think that? I own 2 Gs and I think they are on the smaller slim side...actually I think they are perfect size. Any smaller and they look kinda girly no??
I have 6 inch wrist... i feel you lol
Absolutely fantastic watch, but the price is way off. When you line this watch up against its competitors (in that price segment), I still wouldn't pick the GS. As always, almost but not quite from GS. Great video, thanks so much!
Yeah they are really going upmarket, but I gotta have my spring drive 🥰
@@WatchCrunchOfficial I 100% agree, the spring drive mechanism is unbelievable! These are retailing for £8500 in the UK. If Seiko could offer a spring drive in a similar package for around £5000 - £6000, they would have a run away hit. I just think you shouldn't have to pay over these prices to expect a good bracelet with taper and screwed links. Considering you can get a Rolex Explorer 1 (with a big chunk of change) or DateJust (and change), the GS is up against some stiff competition. Maybe that's just me though and it's not really the same buyer? I really do want a spring drive in my collection too ☺️
GS should make a thinner 62GS (titanium) with their latest 9RA2 spring drive
Almost perfect. Price is unreasonable though. Keep it around 7-8k
I have the SBGA413 spring edition of the four seasons collection and put it straight on a red ox blood coloured strap to bring out the cherry blossom 🌸 in the dial. Now all is good. Strangely I like the power reserve on the dial. I don’t understand complications you can’t use whilst wearing the watch? Everyone is different I guess. It seems to me though an extra $3000 to put the power reserve on the back and upgrade the bracelet is a bit high. Did I miss something?
I guess for me, I look at the power indicator when I'm putting the watch on, just a glance, then I don't care while wearing it obviously 😊
If I could try one on I very well might have bought one, but by the time I heard about this model it was impossible to track down. Once again a limited edition and there were none available. That's what frustrates me.
I feel the same, I tried to buy two different GS models this year. Never can find the limited editions .
To defend the winters push pins the bracelet is Titanium that's why they use push pins instead of screws
Yep, just learned that 👍
It's not possible to have screwed pins on the "winter" watch, because it's made from titanium. Titanium doesn't take to threading. I don't know why people bleat on about pins and collars being bad, they are much more secure than screws! Plus, if you strip the thread on the bracelet links you have to replace that link, or maybe the entire bracelet! Beautiful watches though Max. Thanks for the review.