What a shame these students, presumably in college or university, apparently don't read Ancient Greek and therefore can't read Sappho's poetry itself but must make do with English-language renditions and approximations of her poetry! It's one thing to read translations of scientific, philosophical, mathematical or even certain kinds of literary texts, such as long-format or short-format prose fiction, but not to be able to read the language in which poetry is written seems to make the entire enterprise of engaging that poetry ridiculous, deceptive and counter-productive. Perhaps learning at least something is better than knowing nothing at all, but one prays these students don't come away from this lecture believing they've been in the presence of or communed with Sappho's poetry. Sadly, I fear that many, if not most, of them will do just that. Sigh.
I do agree but I also think it would be a bit much to ask all these students to learn greek for these poems. While they are no doubt worth reading in their original language there are a lot of great poems out there written in dozens of different languages. Therefor one could argue that you should be able to read those too. At some point however you have to make a decision about what you learn, because learning them all is just not possible. It's unfortunate, and I personally did decide to learn greek mostly due to Sapphos Poems and my personal interest in the topic, but you can't expect everyone to make the same commitment.
Yeah. And, as I said, learning at least something is probably better than knowing nothing at all. That said, however, when I was in school, I learned French, German and Latin before reading French, German or Latin poetry. I don't feel it's a burdensome imposition to require secondary-education-level students to learn something of a foreign language prior to their reading poetry written in that language. I'm afraid that, over the past several decades, lowered standards and expectations and perhaps also simple laziness have increasingly become the norm that coddles undergraduates at colleges and universities. It's a state of affairs that absolutely wouldn't've been tolerated in the 19th or even in the early 20th century at any respectable academic institution, never mind Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or Yale. Having discovered poetry fairly early in life, I've long intuitively been aware of the intrinsic absurdity of trying to translate poetry from one language to another, but what really drove home this point for me was the case of the two competing translations of Marcel Proust's À La Recherche Du Temps Perdu, a title that, of course, references a sonnet by Shakespeare. The title of the original translation is the relatively academic "Remembrance Of Things Past," while the title of the subsequent version is the essentially literal "In Search Of Lost Time." What a wonderful way to highlight, thought I, the Monty-Python-grade folly that is the enterprise of poetic translation; as well as to underscore just how compromised, confused, amoral and anti-aesthetic is the task assigned to the translator of poetry. I've never formally learned Spanish, Greek, Russian, Chinese, Arabic, Welsh or any other language than the three I cited earlier, but I do know that if I set out to read poems from any of those languages, then I'd either (a) bother to learn the languages; or else (b) be humble enough to be mindful I'm not actually reading the poetry at all but rather doing something akin to imagining the experience of eating a pork tamale by eating a ham sandwich. All right, that's about it. Thanks for your feedback!
While natural language poetry would definitely lend Sappho an edge, the English language is particularly vast and complex. Stresses, syllables, lines, and general form still come across with a fair amount of lyricism and detail. If you've ever read Sappho's poetry, it still carries its power within. Plus, ignorance is bliss.
@@Tubebrerry Prof Carey, admits just about the same when he says each year he seems to teach less and less students who know anything of the Iliad... Prof Carey does a wonderful short clip or two - and is a much more interesting lecturer than the above.
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Thank you for this!
the penny drop @5:57 😂
What translation is he using?
13:48
3:52
was sapho a woman - what kind of pupils are these?????
Sappho was a woman (:
Student actually asked- "Wait. Sappho was a girl?" D.oh!!!!
Рокер античная. Клево
@29:45 The prof called Paris of Troy a Turkish boy. Paris was a Trojan not a Turk. Turkey did not exist then. That's a pretty lame thing to say.
Lmao
Sir its time to change your waste belt. 7:42
What a shame these students, presumably in college or university, apparently don't read Ancient Greek and therefore can't read Sappho's poetry itself but must make do with English-language renditions and approximations of her poetry! It's one thing to read translations of scientific, philosophical, mathematical or even certain kinds of literary texts, such as long-format or short-format prose fiction, but not to be able to read the language in which poetry is written seems to make the entire enterprise of engaging that poetry ridiculous, deceptive and counter-productive. Perhaps learning at least something is better than knowing nothing at all, but one prays these students don't come away from this lecture believing they've been in the presence of or communed with Sappho's poetry. Sadly, I fear that many, if not most, of them will do just that. Sigh.
I do agree but I also think it would be a bit much to ask all these students to learn greek for these poems. While they are no doubt worth reading in their original language there are a lot of great poems out there written in dozens of different languages. Therefor one could argue that you should be able to read those too. At some point however you have to make a decision about what you learn, because learning them all is just not possible. It's unfortunate, and I personally did decide to learn greek mostly due to Sapphos Poems and my personal interest in the topic, but you can't expect everyone to make the same commitment.
Yeah.
And, as I said, learning at least something is probably better than knowing nothing at all.
That said, however, when I was in school, I learned French, German and Latin before reading French, German or Latin poetry. I don't feel it's a burdensome imposition to require secondary-education-level students to learn something of a foreign language prior to their reading poetry written in that language. I'm afraid that, over the past several decades, lowered standards and expectations and perhaps also simple laziness have increasingly become the norm that coddles undergraduates at colleges and universities. It's a state of affairs that absolutely wouldn't've been tolerated in the 19th or even in the early 20th century at any respectable academic institution, never mind Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or Yale.
Having discovered poetry fairly early in life, I've long intuitively been aware of the intrinsic absurdity of trying to translate poetry from one language to another, but what really drove home this point for me was the case of the two competing translations of Marcel Proust's À La Recherche Du Temps Perdu, a title that, of course, references a sonnet by Shakespeare. The title of the original translation is the relatively academic "Remembrance Of Things Past," while the title of the subsequent version is the essentially literal "In Search Of Lost Time." What a wonderful way to highlight, thought I, the Monty-Python-grade folly that is the enterprise of poetic translation; as well as to underscore just how compromised, confused, amoral and anti-aesthetic is the task assigned to the translator of poetry.
I've never formally learned Spanish, Greek, Russian, Chinese, Arabic, Welsh or any other language than the three I cited earlier, but I do know that if I set out to read poems from any of those languages, then I'd either (a) bother to learn the languages; or else (b) be humble enough to be mindful I'm not actually reading the poetry at all but rather doing something akin to imagining the experience of eating a pork tamale by eating a ham sandwich.
All right, that's about it. Thanks for your feedback!
@@Tubebrerry Proust's title doesn't reference Sonnet 30...The original translated title in English does.
While natural language poetry would definitely lend Sappho an edge, the English language is particularly vast and complex. Stresses, syllables, lines, and general form still come across with a fair amount of lyricism and detail. If you've ever read Sappho's poetry, it still carries its power within. Plus, ignorance is bliss.
@@Tubebrerry Prof Carey, admits just about the same when he says each year he seems to teach less and less students who know anything of the Iliad... Prof Carey does a wonderful short clip or two - and is a much more interesting lecturer than the above.