Well, it seems that the JD-08 is a faithful replica of the JD800... even the problems with the faders are replicated from the original. I enjoyed working for many years with the original JD800 in the 90s. It was my favorite digital synthesizer "BUT" when a fader fails, the parameters jump in values (in my case I started with the filter cutoff and the LFO speed).. .The JD800 was also a "control surface editor" for 2 Roland JD990 modules in a rack... that whole setup starts to fall apart when the JD800 hardware starts to fail in different areas. TIP: Use any free "MIDI MONITOR" app to see if the device sends crazy MIDI parameter jumps. I keep a lot of old digital synthesizers in my studio and many show these kinds of problems with faders, knobs and switches. When I go to music stores and try Roland boutiques, I love the sound but hate the quality of the hardware on those products, especially the "micro" faders.
that is fascinating that the original had some similar issues, funny comment about the faithful emulation of all the details :) thanks for the tips, and fully agree!
Pretty common on any digital input, really. It's the digital manifestation of "fader crackle", which can often be cured by using some fader lube. It deoxidizes the contacts, curing the intermittent connection between the moving and stationary parts. Well... curing, assuming the tracks haven't been worn or gouged, and the wiper hasn't been bent due to impact -- which are also possible on devices that get used and abused. :-) Now, this shouldn't be necessary on a _new_ device, as it's generally a maintenance thing that you have to do every five to twenty years. That's probably more a problem with trying to give customers the moon for the price of a desk lamp -- which is what we all demand these days.
That was awesome! So nice to see the BTS version of one of these. It really helps you to appreciate how challenging it can be and how much time it takes to make great videos. Thank you for sharing!
yeah, this may well reflect the first experience of other musicians, i am by no means a super smart synthesist, so this is how it works out for an average joe
@@WoodyPianoShackTemu is a sales app from China infamous for selling horrendous knockoffs, false advertising and claims, bait and switch, and every other bad business practice a business has ever been accused of.
I have an MX-1, I plug by JD-08 into the powered usb connector, and I 've had none of the problems that you demonstrate. I've played for hours, triggering the JD-08 from a Korg Karma, TB-3, MC-707. This is probably my favorite boutique from Roland.
Well, for all those hours of blood, sweat, and tears, I'd have to say you did manage to coax some VERY tasty sounds out of the little bugger. Thanks for sharing with us!
After the death of my JD-800 by the dreaded red keys disease, this thing was a godsend. The sounds are pretty close to the original, and the weight is nowhere near as hernia-inducing. Love mine - luckily haven't had the problems encountered here. 🙂
2:10 It is the "Note" button, on the far left, which is also conveniently marked by the white box around it, as with all(!) Roland gear which have "shift" functions... That takes care of all the functions surrounded by a white lined box.
thanks yeah seems so obvious when you put it like that, but I only figured it out after trying most of the other buttons, either i am dumbass or not so intuitive after all. probably bit of both. bring back dedicated octave up down buttons for old farts like me!
Ah, yes. "Note." The international synonym for "alternate function." You can certainly put some onus on the user to RTFM. But on the other hand, unless you're the kind of person who uses only one instrument, or at least only one manufacturer, it is the onus of the product to be as intuitive as possible. After all, are you going to take your spiral bounds or PDFs on stage to help you, or do you need the thing to be accessible enough to navigate and even improvise without first passing a semester of Roland Terminology?
That's right. We need a Boutiques V2 line with faders of the appropriate size and interfaces like the corresponding programmer modules for the emulated synths (PG-1000 for D-50, etc.)
Thanks for sharing Woody, oh how I can relate! I have been trying to sync an old Alexis drum machine with a Modal synth, and yes failing dismally. As frustrating as this must have been for for you ( I have just come to the tuning problem, I will continue typing after I uncross my eyes ) it is so helpful for us to see these processes , good and bad and I commend you sharing this. Kind regards Mick.
The JD-08 manual clearly shows the reset procedure. I think it's exactly as Sweetwater says (first google result). I wonder how you missed it. Then again, reading Roland manuals is a torture in itself.
sweetwater the page I tried to follow, since it was first! but the instructions don't work. tried a few other sites, and actually did not attempt to read the manual, was a bit stressed...
I’m struggling with the Fantom arpeggiator, manual says basically to just turn it on, when I do it doesn’t work lol as expected I’m scouring TH-cam for a clue
Thank you very much for this entertaining vid! It’s a refreshing way to review a device 😃 Don’t let the frustration get to you, it keep up the good work!
yeah, i agree a lot of truth to that. i would not say I am bad though, just kind of average :) this is the kind of typical challenges that other average musicians face all the time with these highly complicated instruments. although I do wonder how a good workman would fix the drifting oscillators :)
While there is wisdom in that, there is also such a thing as a bad tool . . . You'll notice our host was able to work with it regardless, where a truly bad workman would throw up their hands and claim shenanigans to cover for their lack of talent and experience.
Hello Woody. The reset factory procedure is detailled on page 53 of the JD-08 Reference manual (PDF) : While holding the [2] button, turn power on, then press the [PAGE/TIE] button.
thanks! will def attempt that in a more stress-free situation. strange, all the info I could find at the time were saying to press "part 2", or "layer 2" . i could only find Tone B, and god only knows what that does during power up!
Had I purchased it with my hard-earned, then it would be going straight back - it was thoughtful of you to let us see and hear the pain - often wondered how to make seamless, entertaining vids, and what it takes - Bravo!
Hey Woody, maybe your demonstration of the Roland »JD-08« was not the best on TH-cam ... maybe, don't know, won't judge. But actually: THIS video was very funny to watch. Not only because of your struggles. But also because of the very usual chaos I experience by myself when recording something at my home studio. So don't worry: Your in good company. 😉
so glad to hear that people are relating to my struggles! it is quite comforting. either people were gonna hate me or sympathise, but it is the latter, thank goodness!
The JD800 emulation is really perfect, including the sliders that occasionally send spurious data .. the advantage on a real JD800 is that the display lets you know which slider was last manipulated so it can be wiggled a bit until it stops sending noise! This was actually an entertaining video, good thing you actually put it online.
thanks for the insights. strange thing though, the display was not showing parameter changes when the thing was drifting out of tune, so still not convinced it was spurious inputs from a slider.
@@WoodyPianoShack in reality i wouldn't expect a brand new synth to have false input triggers - on a 30+ year old JD800 that has lead a hard life, I sort of expect it. VERY strange behaviour, you are right.
I look forward to hearing the response you receive from Roland. The real shame in this video is that we never heard you go ballistic in Swedish. "Out-of-tune again, JD-08? I'll just wait patiently for it to come back into phase again." Honestly, it's hard to imagine a Swede being overly angry.
a couple of things, any cursing that might slip out will be in english since i am actually welsh and curse like a trooper off camera. also, I very much doubt if roland watch let alone respond to videos like this!
i think this vid resonates with a lot of keyboard players, because we have all been in similar technology meltdowns when trying just to make some music!
'Note' but is also the same on JX-08 which I have (along with K25m like you). Strange that you didn't figure it out, it is on the same 'level' as the actual notes on the keys. So when you use the buttons to play notes the other functions at this level come into play too. Maybe you were confused as you already had the keyboard attachment.
i admit it seems obvious now, but these seemed to be shift functions, and the note button did not seem to be appropriate, although I found it after trying every other button, and there are many :)
Thanks for this video, Woody! The detuning happened a few times with the JD-800 software too. During playback, all of a sudden most presets were completely out of tune and it did not go away by simply re-selecting the presets again. As quickly as it came, it got back to normal again. IMO an error in the software, but Roland does not seem to know the cause.
The JD-08 is easily the most insanely difficult synth I’ve ever used. However, I will say that it’s the most powerful synth in its form-factor. It’s a DAWless Techno monster. But it is a crazy bad design with absolutely nothing being intuitive…at all.
I have one. It functions perfectly. Great sounding synth much like the JD 800 was. I can however change the octave on my midi keyboard. Using a larger keyboard removes this problem anyway. That 25 key mini keyboard seems rather a limiting factor musically
I love this Woody, I'm really sorry for your experience but it honestly made a super entertaining video. The random microtonal notes honetly cracked me up but they sounded really good I can't believe how bad the build quality is to the point that the physical sliders are sending random data.. I've had the same with pitch wheels on cheap keyboards, and potentiometers on synths Thanks for uploading this, I'd be happy to see more blooper sort of content (though would be nice if everything just worked too lol)
hi there and glad to emuse you! not sure we have a fader issue. i see now there is a knob called "random pitch" and perhaps i knocked that, and maybe that is global? although that would be madness to put it on a cramped control panel, should be buried way deep in the menus!
Great video Woody. I'm sure many of us have been there. MIDI going slightly out of sync, hanging notes, noise, hum, even had a stuck key and had to strip down the keyboard to fix it. Sure kills the inspiration. But we carry on.
we sure do, this is nothing compared to other frustrations I have had using hardware, software, audio interfaces. why do keyboard musicians have to deal with all this. should have learned the bassoon.
man it sucks you had such a bad experience. I got one as they came out and I love it. used it to play live with a midi controller for some time and now I use it as a portable synth/soundcard with my laptop. I got pretty good at programming it, but the tiny sliders occasionally get stuck in the middle of values and randomly shift. Still have mine and probably will for a while.
I had a similar issue with one of my synths some years ago: the pitch seemed to be out of tune but I didn't understand why. This is only after hours of troubleshooting I realized the pitch modulation wheel was not returning to zero when released, and created a small (but noticeable when mixed with other tracks) pitch shift. it was a setting in some very deep menus that was wrong. This is the problem with digital synths: something can be wrong but you can't figure it out just by looking at the synth
Page 18 of the manual PDF: 1. Press the [NOTE] button. The [1]-[13] buttons light up. At this time, you can use the [1]-[13] buttons as if they were keys on a keyboard. ● Use the [14] or [15] button (the OCT [-] and [+] buttons) to switch the tonal range of the keyboard in octaves. Normally, The pitch LFO thing is a controlled by the buttons on the top right where you can route the LFO to pitch, filter or amp.It's a per-patch setting, on my JD-08 (straight from new at retail) it's only enabled on a handful of patches. Weird that a faulty LFO slider would globally route that to pitch. Maybe it defaults to pitch because it's the top of the three buttons? Definitely stick with it, the patches sound great for all kinds of 90s cheese. Put it on the shred guitar patch A15 and plug in a keytar, you will be going all night! I bought mine specifically for that, after hearing the patch on the Anderton's demo.
thanks for clarifying, this is the correct info that I was unable to find in the heat of the moment. yeah, i will give it a second shot once I calm down a bit. :)
Funnily enough Ive been strongly considering the JD08 as it seems great at emulating 90s video game sound fonts (and i have dabbled in game dev in the past and have always written my own music for it). Using it to actually make complex patches seems pretty rediculous though. On another note, there is a visual hint that the note button does octave shift as its written in the same kind of typeface (with the box around it and everything). Its the same on the JX08 which I got close to launch as my first real tweakable subtractive synth. Its not your fault that you didnt see it though.
well, i should have figured that out before recording, to be fair. and now I know the trick it seems quite obvious, but at the time it was totally non-intuitive. i do think that it might nevertheless be the greatest boutique, so don't let this awful demo deter you!
My first few hours with my JD-08 was a lesson in HEY: this ain't no ordinary synth. You need to spend some time. Just like I am spending a huge amount of time with my Kurzweil VAST synth (one year now). I have the PDF manual from Roland's web site, and the reset is on there, on page 53, hold down the #2 button and turn the power on. The PAGE/TIE blinks, press it to begin the reset. When the display says donE, turn off the unit and then turn it back on for a full factory reset. reset takes a few minutes to complete. It is digital, it can't be out of tune unless you want it to be...see WG (wave generator section and the Pitch Random control). This is a rare one of a kind synth, the Pitch Random control can extend or compress the normal 12 note scale; incredible! This synth in the 90s was a flagship powerhouse full of tactile control, an extreme rare digital synth. You must be an experienced sound designer to make this synth soar into new territories, or just to use the complex ADSR with full level control and four-layer architecture. I wrote to Roland a few years before they introduced this JD-08, asking them to reissue this iconic synth, I did not expect a boutique but will take it, and I do own one. As with any very creative synth the complexity needs to have your devoted time. Yes, you can play just the presets, but it is a very deep synth and creating your own patches is what it is made for. There are parameters for controlling the sync and internal / external or master / slave MIDI commands. The CLOCK IN port is a much more detailed way to control the sync. I could never afford a JD800 back in the 1990s to have this available for a mere $400 today is beyond my comprehension, such a great and wonderful synth for making incredible sounds. Four layers, and the PATCH / LAYER control area is very important to make changes to the correct layer or layers. The long sliders in the PALETTE control whatever other control you just used. They can be set to any parameter for live control of the synth patch. It is still a subtractive synth so the time I spent with my JD-08 has only been about a day and was ready for deep sound design. IF you are new to sound design this 4Layer power synth is not the synth to begin your subtractive journey on. This is a synth for designers, and I love it for all its complexities you will never find on an analog unless it is modular or semi-modular.
great comment, thanks for insights. yeah i have a hunch that random pitch control could be the culprit, if knocked when I was blundering around trying to do octave shift. although strange not recalled with preset. i say bury that control way deep in the menus and remove from cramped control surface where it gets easily nudged. palette controls are amazing yes, and I am sure there are settings to control midi sync behaviour as you said, but that would take at least an hour to figure out i reckon.
Thanks for sharing, glad you chose not to turf the footage. It was informative and rather amusing, having the benefit of not being into your shoes 😱Are all JD-08’s like this or is yours just cursed?
i have read reports of keys breaking on xi, and I suppose you mean the K25 keyboard dock for the 08? yes, you have to treat these quite gently I believe but I have never had any issues.
I have the slightest suspicion you and the JD-08 didn't gel that well. 🙂 (Seriously, those Roland online manuals are, to put it mildly, something they might want to improve upon. Things are labeled wrongly (as you've shown in the video), functions are explained in the most basic and short way possible, no tutorial whatsoever).
I'm still interested in this boutique even so with all of the problems you've encountered. But since Roland apparently discontinued the D-05, I'm still worried that they might do the same with the JD-08. Makes me think the boutiques are just hardware demos for the VSTs.
This is one of the reasons I have moved completely to software synths (VST/AU-Plugins). Digital synthesizers with many sliders always have A/D and D/A circuit scanning problems.
The actual JD engine in my Jupiter-X is actually great, but the minuscule format of the JD-08 is just plain terrible. I cannot but feel that somewhere, one corner too many has been cut to create this little box. However, your video was quite amusing and fun to watch. Thank you!
yeah, well said! i would love to have all the jupiter x presets and sound engines in a boutique, now that would be one hell of a nice product! Don't need any realtime controls, just a zencore preset box would be the bomb.
Oh dear when Technology goes wrong 😮 sounds too tedious the little the buttons.😮 sounds like using a bigger midi controller is the answer.maybe needs a firmware update 🎉I think Roland makes great products so not sure what is going on 😊
Woody.... We can Watch THIS for Hours!!!.... My Husband goes through THIS .....With EVERY Expensive piece of Gear He buys!!!!....He has the Worst GAS.... Buying Everything He sees on TH-cam!!....HE Will now tell Me... "Remember Woody!?!... He had a hard time too....let me see what This Button Does....Doough!!!!!"
this is the reality of all keyboard players, unfortunately. there is this dream/illusion of ultra creative dawless jamming creating amazing compositions in the blink of the eye, but the reality is we spend an hour trying to figure out how to transpose the keyboard and then give up.
Re: tuning, you have to understand, Woody, that these old analogue devices can really drift out of tune when you’re using them in these harsh environments… 😂 As others have mentioned, crying and laughing right along with you! ❤
Really, the Roland JD-08 is very easy of use! And have great sound. Only need a one or two neurons for learn. But if you want something more complicated try a Teenage Engineering OP-Z
Well, that is a nice pad sound in the beginning, but it seems like you are fighting with that little keyboard except when you are playing the bass part. The tuning problems - painful! Thanks for going through it so we don’t have to.
Unless its the same problem, I've run into something similar with the S1 Roland. The lfos are activated always in a weird way that come in and go every 5 or so seconds. Menu diving a lot fixes it but with the cost of disappointing me from every adjustment.
Yay! Someone that had a worse time with a new alien gizmo than I usually have. The thing would probably be decent MIDI’d to the 61 key controller AND if there was a software controller on the PC/Apple to make up for lack of resolution on those short-throw sliders.
I too have the JD-08, and whilst I love the sound of the module, it is a pain in the arse to use in boutique / K-25M form compared to my JU-06A and D-05 (Which I bought after I saw you demo a D-50, might have been a D-05)
I had a variety of struggles with my Roland Jupiter Xm. Not as bad as yours, but what I found was that the manual didn't help much and the official online support videos were often rendered useless by firmware updates. Roland clearly have issues with UX. I get the impression that the techies drive the product advancement and that the support teams can't keep up, or don't have the budget to. It's incredibly irksome, as there is an amazing sound engine hidden within these frustrating products. I kept my Roland purchase but I have heard of many others who weren't as patient.
thanks for the comment and well said! in this particular demo, my goal was simply to play some presets. how hard can it be? i figured a couple of hours prep would suffice, but seemingly not... :)
If memory serves, you bought the JD used? Maybe you expense it on your taxes. As mentioned, one of the sliders may have gone bad. It does have great sounds, though.
Using a K25m makes all the boutiques unnecessarily bad…Roland undoubtedly should provide better manuals for these things for sure, seems like everyone’s depending on Loopop 😅
Half a century of tech goes by without Roland hearing about UI/UX Design. Who cares if the instrument sounds good if i can't use it, or it does not feel nice to use. Apparently they have not heard of screens either.
I have a JX-08 (for which I also made a video) and it is a pretty awesome synth, which only falls short in its presets/voices and backup capabilities… if it had just a little bigger screen and a patch librarian compatibility this would be an awesome synth!
JX-08 owner here, definitely a frustrating device to work with. Seems to be the norm for modern Roland devices to be honest. I've got an MC-101 and it's also pretty unintuitive to work with (at least at first, you eventually get the hang of it, but user-friendly isn't a word I'd use to describe it!). My biggest gripe with the JX (and applies to the JD also), is the complete lack of preset management. Just a single binary containing all presets in a way that's not simple to deconstruct (thankfully some intelligent folks have created aftermarket solutions for that, but it really shouldn't be necessary). Especially given that it's all built on ZenCore (and the Model Expansions for the JX/JD). No idea why they couldn't just let you manage and export preset banks via ZenologyPro like you can for the MC-101/707. In saying that, I've just taken delivery of an MV-1, so possible a bit of Stockholm syndrome going on here...
Preset management sucks on the JX-08. Another thing that sucks is there is no way to see the values used in any of the presets. A slightly larger footprint with a real screen would really benefit the boutiques. I've had the JX-08 for quite some time and never really managed to do anything reasonable with it.
@@sonic2000gr Yeah absolutely. On the older ACB Boutiques, the presets were individual files that could be opened with a text editor to view the parameters. If you search for "JX-08 Librarian", there's guy who recently released a preset manager for it. It allows pulling presets from multiple JX-08 preset files and creating new ones by combining them. Also allows you to name them (they'll either just be called INIT TONE or whatever preset they were cloned from previously). He made a JD-08 one a few months back and it also allows for importing of JD-800 Model Expansion Zenology preset banks. Hoping the same functionality gets brought over to the JX version.
@@sonic2000gr Yeah absolutely, the earlier Boutiques (the ACB ones like the JU-06 & JP-08) had individual files for each preset that could be opened in a text editor and you could view all the parameter values. If you're interested, search for the JX-08 Librarian, a guy created a tool that can extract the presets from the .svd files and create new ones with whatever presets you want. As well as being able to name them. He made an equivalent one for the JD-08 a few months back and it now has support for importing/exporting the ZenCore file format too which is cool. Hoping that comes to the JX version too. Fairly sure I replied to this already, so if it comes through as a duplicate I apologise!
Yeah the MC-101 has pretty steep learning curve. I recently bought one to use as a sound module. But I have printed out all the manuals and addendums and have studied them. What I find confusing about the device is the how some of menu’s are setup. Some are under the utility button and others are under the track selection buttons. For some weird reason the midi settings are split between these different menu’s. What really baffles me about the default settings is how midi notes are transmitted. When you play the pads, the notes are transmitted (as one would expect), but when the sequencer is playing it doesn’t transmit the notes unless you change the midi transmit settings to turn this on. And you have to change this setting a per tracks basis. Argh! It trips me up everytime when I record a sequence from the MC-101 into Cubase. I get no midi onto the track, I scratch my head and then realise I have to change the settings on the MC-101 to get it to transmit the sequence. I really wonder why the designers choose such a weird default setting. Also, with Roland gear you always have to have the manuals at hand and get a USB ground loop isolator to fix the infamous high-pitched USB noise.
Reminds me of the same experience I had when linking my Roland FA-06 to my computer.. problem after problem after problem.. Thank god for synth plugins (that work)
it's unbelievable how many tech issues we synth players need to solve. some people enjoy that, but it sometimes makes me want to turn it all off and go play banjo.
yeah, don't let my clumsy attempts to do a demo deter you, i am sure that in the right hands, and with some expertise on how it works you'll get great results. i "only" did a few hours of prep before trying to play some presets.
@@WoodyPianoShack Don't get me wrong. I love this "demo" because it demonstrates much of the frustration you can have with new gear .. and old gear too. :) AND how much effort we put in making these videos.
Every Roland is very powerfull and deep. Don't even think to use Rolands in any serious production without some prior experience with the device and reading a PDF manual. Don't be lazy! RTFM! Rolands are the complex devices, not some "knob per function" synths. For example, JD-Xi allows you to have individual Filter and ADSR envelopes on every DrumSet sound, or Juno DS allows you to fine tune every key if you wish, even System-1 has some hidden functions like FM oscillators. Can you imagine lots of such options without some interface comromises and some menu diving?
@WoodyPianoShack Sure, but the JD-Xi has a sequencer-oriented front panel. The said JD-Xi has three oscillators per digital part, all with dedicated LFOs, filter types, and ADSR envelopes. There's no way to bring everything out to the front panel. If you were to program a sound with the JD-Xi, you'd be going into the menus. Personally, I absolutely love Roland's manuals and menus. I find them so efficient and interesting. But that's just me. I like deep editing, text menus, knobs, etc. Some people love modular synths and a spaghetty of wires. We're used to intuitive GUIs and touchscreens these days, but there's a reason Roland doesn't add a touchscreen to every unit. Just imagine the cost of an average smartphone added to the cost of every Roland. I'd honestly prefer PDF manuals and some menu diving instead, lol
The sounds out of that little thing are great. It might just need to be MIDI'd up to a real keyboard for ease of play and inspiration? EDIT: Just saw the bit about the MIDI problems... ouch
the midi issue was only related to clock with the drum machine, it'll be fine with a real keyboard controller and i'm sure it will sound superb. can't wait to give it another shot actually...
Had one of these - the sound is pretty good, and plays well with a full-size keyboard.. can't understand why you'd put yourself through the torture of that K25M. Even the sliders are not that terrible, but I got frustrated with the layer select buttons - it really needed separate layer select and layer mute/unmute buttons for programming. The cryptic menus for effects are a real PITA and the inability to pan each layer independently was annoying too. Never had those tuning issues though - a MIDI issue? (edit.. ok.. maybe noisy sliders - maybe not been kept in a dust free environment).
good comment and points, thanks! i think i wanted to show how well or bad it works with the keyboard that is designed and intended for the boutiques. but i agree it is a nightmare for the type of playing that the synth deserves.
@@WoodyPianoShack The K25M/boutique format was an odd choice by Roland. Slightly larger modules and a 61 Key dock, or simply a stand designed to work with their keyboards would have been a lot more useful. I made myself some custom wooden enclosures to stack 2X 4 voice modules to run them in overflow mode for 8 voices.. bit of a faff with USB cables and mini jacks, and requiring DIN connections between the units. The SH4D is a much more practical design, but the sound quality and real polyphony is a bit lacking IMO.
i am pretty sure mine is fixed now also. as i was stumbling around trying to find octave shift maybe i activated some hidden easter egg feature to simulate aging the synth by 30 years. :)
@@WoodyPianoShack I'm not 100% sure about the tuning issue but the JD08 has a function that when you move a parameter on the small faders or knobs (also coarse and fine tune) the big faders (A, B, C and D) are then automatically connected to that. This is a feature for the users to better fine tune values from small faders. Maybe you just touched the fine tuning by accident or it sent some noise and then when touching the A, B, C, D sliders you changed pitch without knowing that these sliders were now controlling fine tuning.
I would be using it with a DAW and a 5 octave keyboard for a start. The DAW can set octaves easily. I thought that little add on keyboard might be useful but after seeing your video I realised not so. I have not bought it as yet. I used to own the JD800 and sold it and I am looking for some form of replacement. ( I have replaced it in a fashion with Lunaris 2 as I used it for pads mostly and Lunaris 2 actually blows it away for pads!) It's funny that a noisy slider can cause an issue even in that version. The real JD had a very similar issue too. I have a feeling or hoping they will re issue it and it will be much better. You need to be able to mange banks much more easily as well. And be able to load in 64 patch sysex banks etc..Maybe the Roland Cloud software version is the way to go. I think you will find the sound will be the same but it will work far better and easier inside a DAW.
the 2 octave keyboard seems more of a cool looking gimmick although might actually be usable for something like an SH101 boutique, or drum machine even, not not for expressive and playable synths like d50 or jd800.
@@peter-utrblk the jd-08 isn't a synth for the faint hearted. Not much deep detail from instructions manual, three parameters settings modes on most the knobs n buttons and if you you move one wrong slider by mistake 😔. Would have been better if a software controller came out with it but alas none😔
If you measure the MIDI output in a monitoring program (if it happens again), you mind see "MIDI murmur" caused by a bad slider and continuous controller data sent, but maybe not. If it is defective it would be fun to see you take a sledge hammer to it for ratings!
midi murmer, good one! more like midi chatter tho! will try that out sometime. although the parameter value is displayed on screen when changed, it was not the case when it was drifting in tune.
All those mini Rolands are like that. You get used to them the more you use them. I use a full size midi controller with mine as my fingers are too chunky for minikeys.
@@Fl4ppers that's some pretty sophisticated sound design then to make it work perfectly until you are half way thru the demo tune :) but yeah, second hand, but I still don't think defective. will test more when my mood improves :)
yeah, interesting idea. the integra covers that pretty well. i would love a desktop sound module featuring best of zencore, but perhaps in slightly larger and more pro format than boutiques, proper line out for example.
you might have hit the nail on the head. but i would say i represent a pretty typical synth player so useful and representative for other typical synth players perhaps.
not quite, i did spend a half day prepping and all was fine, although only when recording did I realize it would be nice with an octave shift. you seem to know your stuff, how would you handle the keyboard drifting out of tune in the middle of a recording?
@WoodyPianoShack Some Rolands (for example, my System-1) have a tendency to react to vibration during playing. It happens with knobs when I don't use them for a very long time. There is some lubricant inside all the faders and knobs which needs to be in use at least sometimes. Otherwise something happens with the contacts (maybe they oxidize, I don't know for sure). It is true for the entire AIRA line, including MC-707 or System-8, it is also true for the knobs of my Juno DS. The device has to be in use, otherwise after every long break the knobs start to be triggered via vibration and show uneven transitions when turning them. After a goid 'warmup' and a dozen of full knob movements the device works fine and functions as normal. Until you again leave it untouched for months. So I turn all the knobs and move all the faders at least once a two weeks to avoid that. To be fair, this isuue is known not only for Roland. My Canon camera's buttons start to glitch if I don't use them. And again, after a 'warmup' and more frequent use the device starts to work fine and shows no issues.
@@WoodyPianoShack It seems that TH-cam deleted my answer, but I'll try again. All the knobs and faders need to be in use at least once a month. Otherwise something happens with the contacts (oxidization?) and the knobs start to react to vibration during playing or show uneven transitions when entering parameters. After a good use and a dozen of full turns of knobs the device starts to function as normal until you again leave it unused for several weeks. There is some lubricant inside all the knobs and faders which has to be in use.
@@Acrimonious_Snake makes a lot of sense, thanks! in fact this hadn't been used for at least 6 months. i will do some vigorous knob twiddling before the next performance.
@@WoodyPianoShack The buttons on my Canon EOS-M also tend to glitch when I'm not using the camera. After a good run, everything works like new. But wait! Even our hands get rusty if we don't play enough!
Thank you for your candid video, Woody.
Well, it seems that the JD-08 is a faithful replica of the JD800... even the problems with the faders are replicated from the original.
I enjoyed working for many years with the original JD800 in the 90s. It was my favorite digital synthesizer "BUT" when a fader fails, the parameters jump in values (in my case I started with the filter cutoff and the LFO speed).. .The JD800 was also a "control surface editor" for 2 Roland JD990 modules in a rack... that whole setup starts to fall apart when the JD800 hardware starts to fail in different areas.
TIP: Use any free "MIDI MONITOR" app to see if the device sends crazy MIDI parameter jumps. I keep a lot of old digital synthesizers in my studio and many show these kinds of problems with faders, knobs and switches.
When I go to music stores and try Roland boutiques, I love the sound but hate the quality of the hardware on those products, especially the "micro" faders.
that is fascinating that the original had some similar issues, funny comment about the faithful emulation of all the details :) thanks for the tips, and fully agree!
Pretty common on any digital input, really. It's the digital manifestation of "fader crackle", which can often be cured by using some fader lube. It deoxidizes the contacts, curing the intermittent connection between the moving and stationary parts. Well... curing, assuming the tracks haven't been worn or gouged, and the wiper hasn't been bent due to impact -- which are also possible on devices that get used and abused. :-)
Now, this shouldn't be necessary on a _new_ device, as it's generally a maintenance thing that you have to do every five to twenty years. That's probably more a problem with trying to give customers the moon for the price of a desk lamp -- which is what we all demand these days.
That was awesome! So nice to see the BTS version of one of these. It really helps you to appreciate how challenging it can be and how much time it takes to make great videos. Thank you for sharing!
respect due for not throwing it out the window
haha, actually never occurred to me, strangely!
Exactly.
It could have hit someone
@@MreenalMamsPublic liability is a huge issue among the disgruntled synthesists community.
@@entropybentwhistle we just have to stay strong and remember, there are no synths in jail
These type of reviews/demos are helpful. If an item is frustrating to use it kills creativity, and doesn’t show up in the ‘specs’
yeah, this may well reflect the first experience of other musicians, i am by no means a super smart synthesist, so this is how it works out for an average joe
Sorry for your pain, but it was entertaining for us viewers.
We are crying and laughing at the same time Woody, hang in there man.
happy to oblige!
This JD-08 is the TEMU version from Roland.
Nice video none the less.
please explain TEMU, are you onto something interesting here?
Rofl😂
@@WoodyPianoShackTemu is a sales app from China infamous for selling horrendous knockoffs, false advertising and claims, bait and switch, and every other bad business practice a business has ever been accused of.
I have an MX-1, I plug by JD-08 into the powered usb connector, and I 've had none of the problems that you demonstrate. I've played for hours, triggering the JD-08 from a Korg Karma, TB-3, MC-707. This is probably my favorite boutique from Roland.
yep agree it is a really good one. i think the unit and I were both having a bad day.
Well, for all those hours of blood, sweat, and tears, I'd have to say you did manage to coax some VERY tasty sounds out of the little bugger. Thanks for sharing with us!
P.S. Thanks for your frankness! It was actually very entertaining... I think we all love the "bloopers" best!
glad we could save something from the wreckage then
After the death of my JD-800 by the dreaded red keys disease, this thing was a godsend. The sounds are pretty close to the original, and the weight is nowhere near as hernia-inducing. Love mine - luckily haven't had the problems encountered here. 🙂
no doubting that this thing can sound amazing as I hope to demonstrate in the future...
2:10 It is the "Note" button, on the far left, which is also conveniently marked by the white box around it, as with all(!) Roland gear which have "shift" functions... That takes care of all the functions surrounded by a white lined box.
I just checked the manual and it clearly says on page 18.
thanks yeah seems so obvious when you put it like that, but I only figured it out after trying most of the other buttons, either i am dumbass or not so intuitive after all. probably bit of both. bring back dedicated octave up down buttons for old farts like me!
Ah, yes. "Note." The international synonym for "alternate function."
You can certainly put some onus on the user to RTFM. But on the other hand, unless you're the kind of person who uses only one instrument, or at least only one manufacturer, it is the onus of the product to be as intuitive as possible. After all, are you going to take your spiral bounds or PDFs on stage to help you, or do you need the thing to be accessible enough to navigate and even improvise without first passing a semester of Roland Terminology?
@@nickwallette6201 thanks for the funny comment, indeed and perhaps things have gone too far when the manual is needed to do an octave shift!
Never understand the purpose of synths that belongs in a dollhouse
That's right. We need a Boutiques V2 line with faders of the appropriate size and interfaces like the corresponding programmer modules for the emulated synths (PG-1000 for D-50, etc.)
Thanks for sharing Woody, oh how I can relate! I have been trying to sync an old Alexis drum machine with a Modal synth, and yes failing dismally. As frustrating as this must have been for for you ( I have just come to the tuning problem, I will continue typing after I uncross my eyes ) it is so helpful for us to see these processes , good and bad and I commend you sharing this. Kind regards Mick.
The JD-08 manual clearly shows the reset procedure. I think it's exactly as Sweetwater says (first google result). I wonder how you missed it. Then again, reading Roland manuals is a torture in itself.
sweetwater the page I tried to follow, since it was first! but the instructions don't work. tried a few other sites, and actually did not attempt to read the manual, was a bit stressed...
It also clearly states the "shift" or in this case NOTE function, on page 18.
I’m struggling with the Fantom arpeggiator, manual says basically to just turn it on, when I do it doesn’t work lol as expected I’m scouring TH-cam for a clue
Thank you very much for this entertaining vid!
It’s a refreshing way to review a device 😃
Don’t let the frustration get to you, it keep up the good work!
There's an old saying I think is appropriate here. "A bad workman blames his tools."
yeah, i agree a lot of truth to that. i would not say I am bad though, just kind of average :) this is the kind of typical challenges that other average musicians face all the time with these highly complicated instruments. although I do wonder how a good workman would fix the drifting oscillators :)
While there is wisdom in that, there is also such a thing as a bad tool . . .
You'll notice our host was able to work with it regardless, where a truly bad workman would throw up their hands and claim shenanigans to cover for their lack of talent and experience.
Hello Woody. The reset factory procedure is detailled on page 53 of the JD-08 Reference manual (PDF) : While holding the [2] button, turn power on, then press the [PAGE/TIE] button.
thanks! will def attempt that in a more stress-free situation. strange, all the info I could find at the time were saying to press "part 2", or "layer 2" . i could only find Tone B, and god only knows what that does during power up!
Had I purchased it with my hard-earned, then it would be going straight back - it was thoughtful of you to let us see and hear the pain - often wondered how to make seamless, entertaining vids, and what it takes - Bravo!
it takes a lot of editing is the easy answer! normally all this fumbling around would never make it anywhere near the final cut!
Hey Woody,
maybe your demonstration of the Roland »JD-08« was not the best on TH-cam ... maybe, don't know, won't judge. But actually: THIS video was very funny to watch. Not only because of your struggles. But also because of the very usual chaos I experience by myself when recording something at my home studio. So don't worry: Your in good company. 😉
so glad to hear that people are relating to my struggles! it is quite comforting. either people were gonna hate me or sympathise, but it is the latter, thank goodness!
The JD800 emulation is really perfect, including the sliders that occasionally send spurious data .. the advantage on a real JD800 is that the display lets you know which slider was last manipulated so it can be wiggled a bit until it stops sending noise! This was actually an entertaining video, good thing you actually put it online.
thanks for the insights. strange thing though, the display was not showing parameter changes when the thing was drifting out of tune, so still not convinced it was spurious inputs from a slider.
@@WoodyPianoShack in reality i wouldn't expect a brand new synth to have false input triggers - on a 30+ year old JD800 that has lead a hard life, I sort of expect it. VERY strange behaviour, you are right.
I look forward to hearing the response you receive from Roland. The real shame in this video is that we never heard you go ballistic in Swedish. "Out-of-tune again, JD-08? I'll just wait patiently for it to come back into phase again." Honestly, it's hard to imagine a Swede being overly angry.
a couple of things, any cursing that might slip out will be in english since i am actually welsh and curse like a trooper off camera. also, I very much doubt if roland watch let alone respond to videos like this!
19 seconds in and I burst into laughter😆(because your brutal honest frustration was refreshing)
i think this vid resonates with a lot of keyboard players, because we have all been in similar technology meltdowns when trying just to make some music!
Yeah, I like the piano patch. Reminds me of some of the sounds that Ryuchi Sakamoto uses on Neo Geo album from 1987.
'Note' but is also the same on JX-08 which I have (along with K25m like you). Strange that you didn't figure it out, it is on the same 'level' as the actual notes on the keys. So when you use the buttons to play notes the other functions at this level come into play too. Maybe you were confused as you already had the keyboard attachment.
i admit it seems obvious now, but these seemed to be shift functions, and the note button did not seem to be appropriate, although I found it after trying every other button, and there are many :)
Thanks for this video, Woody! The detuning happened a few times with the JD-800 software too. During playback, all of a sudden most presets were completely out of tune and it did not go away by simply re-selecting the presets again. As quickly as it came, it got back to normal again. IMO an error in the software, but Roland does not seem to know the cause.
that is a very interesting observation. simply astonishing, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for posting this, Woody. May have been a PITA for you, but very entertaining for me.
Woody keeping it real!
The JD-08 is easily the most insanely difficult synth I’ve ever used. However, I will say that it’s the most powerful synth in its form-factor. It’s a DAWless Techno monster. But it is a crazy bad design with absolutely nothing being intuitive…at all.
I have one. It functions perfectly. Great sounding synth much like the JD 800 was. I can however change the octave on my midi keyboard. Using a larger keyboard removes this problem anyway. That 25 key mini keyboard seems rather a limiting factor musically
all valid points, thanks! i will give it a second or third chance.
Thank you for sharing. Shame on Roland for not having proper documentation readily available
well, in fairness perhaps it is, but i couldn't find it in the heat of the moment. i will double check and do a follow up vid one of these days.
I love this Woody, I'm really sorry for your experience but it honestly made a super entertaining video. The random microtonal notes honetly cracked me up but they sounded really good
I can't believe how bad the build quality is to the point that the physical sliders are sending random data.. I've had the same with pitch wheels on cheap keyboards, and potentiometers on synths
Thanks for uploading this, I'd be happy to see more blooper sort of content (though would be nice if everything just worked too lol)
hi there and glad to emuse you! not sure we have a fader issue. i see now there is a knob called "random pitch" and perhaps i knocked that, and maybe that is global? although that would be madness to put it on a cramped control panel, should be buried way deep in the menus!
@@WoodyPianoShack That sounds very likely considering it was changing randomly each time you pressed a single note, my bad
Great video Woody. I'm sure many of us have been there. MIDI going slightly out of sync, hanging notes, noise, hum, even had a stuck key and had to strip down the keyboard to fix it. Sure kills the inspiration. But we carry on.
we sure do, this is nothing compared to other frustrations I have had using hardware, software, audio interfaces. why do keyboard musicians have to deal with all this. should have learned the bassoon.
Wow, that sounded terrible. Thanks of sharing and showing things as they are.
Actually, I really enjoyed this video! Gosh I can't imagine the frustration but it was entertaining sir!
man it sucks you had such a bad experience. I got one as they came out and I love it. used it to play live with a midi controller for some time and now I use it as a portable synth/soundcard with my laptop. I got pretty good at programming it, but the tiny sliders occasionally get stuck in the middle of values and randomly shift. Still have mine and probably will for a while.
no worries, these things happen and so glad you are digging yours, gives me inspiration to give it another shot!
@@WoodyPianoShack I hope it goes better. best of luck🤞
I'm sorry you had such a bad time with the unit, but it did result in one of your funniest video's 😂
i didn't realize there was any humour in the vid, but so glad to see people finding it funny!
This boutique makes the JP-08 (Jupiter 8) a delight to work on in comparison. And that says a lot.
yeah, that one has a pretty cramped control panel too! and only 4 voice iirc...
I had a similar issue with one of my synths some years ago: the pitch seemed to be out of tune but I didn't understand why. This is only after hours of troubleshooting I realized the pitch modulation wheel was not returning to zero when released, and created a small (but noticeable when mixed with other tracks) pitch shift. it was a setting in some very deep menus that was wrong. This is the problem with digital synths: something can be wrong but you can't figure it out just by looking at the synth
yep, also ran into that with mod wheel on cheap midi keyboard controllers
Page 18 of the manual PDF:
1. Press the [NOTE] button.
The [1]-[13] buttons light up. At this time, you can use the [1]-[13] buttons as if they were keys on a keyboard.
● Use the [14] or [15] button (the OCT [-] and [+] buttons) to switch the tonal range of the keyboard in octaves.
Normally, The pitch LFO thing is a controlled by the buttons on the top right where you can route the LFO to pitch, filter or amp.It's a per-patch setting, on my JD-08 (straight from new at retail) it's only enabled on a handful of patches. Weird that a faulty LFO slider would globally route that to pitch. Maybe it defaults to pitch because it's the top of the three buttons?
Definitely stick with it, the patches sound great for all kinds of 90s cheese. Put it on the shred guitar patch A15 and plug in a keytar, you will be going all night! I bought mine specifically for that, after hearing the patch on the Anderton's demo.
thanks for clarifying, this is the correct info that I was unable to find in the heat of the moment. yeah, i will give it a second shot once I calm down a bit. :)
Funnily enough Ive been strongly considering the JD08 as it seems great at emulating 90s video game sound fonts (and i have dabbled in game dev in the past and have always written my own music for it). Using it to actually make complex patches seems pretty rediculous though.
On another note, there is a visual hint that the note button does octave shift as its written in the same kind of typeface (with the box around it and everything). Its the same on the JX08 which I got close to launch as my first real tweakable subtractive synth. Its not your fault that you didnt see it though.
well, i should have figured that out before recording, to be fair. and now I know the trick it seems quite obvious, but at the time it was totally non-intuitive. i do think that it might nevertheless be the greatest boutique, so don't let this awful demo deter you!
My first few hours with my JD-08 was a lesson in HEY: this ain't no ordinary synth. You need to spend some time. Just like I am spending a huge amount of time with my Kurzweil VAST synth (one year now). I have the PDF manual from Roland's web site, and the reset is on there, on page 53, hold down the #2 button and turn the power on. The PAGE/TIE blinks, press it to begin the reset. When the display says donE, turn off the unit and then turn it back on for a full factory reset. reset takes a few minutes to complete.
It is digital, it can't be out of tune unless you want it to be...see WG (wave generator section and the Pitch Random control). This is a rare one of a kind synth, the Pitch Random control can extend or compress the normal 12 note scale; incredible! This synth in the 90s was a flagship powerhouse full of tactile control, an extreme rare digital synth. You must be an experienced sound designer to make this synth soar into new territories, or just to use the complex ADSR with full level control and four-layer architecture. I wrote to Roland a few years before they introduced this JD-08, asking them to reissue this iconic synth, I did not expect a boutique but will take it, and I do own one. As with any very creative synth the complexity needs to have your devoted time. Yes, you can play just the presets, but it is a very deep synth and creating your own patches is what it is made for.
There are parameters for controlling the sync and internal / external or master / slave MIDI commands. The CLOCK IN port is a much more detailed way to control the sync. I could never afford a JD800 back in the 1990s to have this available for a mere $400 today is beyond my comprehension, such a great and wonderful synth for making incredible sounds.
Four layers, and the PATCH / LAYER control area is very important to make changes to the correct layer or layers. The long sliders in the PALETTE control whatever other control you just used. They can be set to any parameter for live control of the synth patch. It is still a subtractive synth so the time I spent with my JD-08 has only been about a day and was ready for deep sound design. IF you are new to sound design this 4Layer power synth is not the synth to begin your subtractive journey on. This is a synth for designers, and I love it for all its complexities you will never find on an analog unless it is modular or semi-modular.
great comment, thanks for insights. yeah i have a hunch that random pitch control could be the culprit, if knocked when I was blundering around trying to do octave shift. although strange not recalled with preset. i say bury that control way deep in the menus and remove from cramped control surface where it gets easily nudged.
palette controls are amazing yes, and I am sure there are settings to control midi sync behaviour as you said, but that would take at least an hour to figure out i reckon.
Still worth putting out, Woody.
In the words of the Human League (Open your heart) "your worst is better
Than their best"
love that, can imagine phil singing that!
Thats look so frustrating! JD-08 is still on my wish list, so hoping it will play nicely with a proper keyboard!
Thanks for sharing, glad you chose not to turf the footage. It was informative and rather amusing, having the benefit of not being into your shoes 😱Are all JD-08’s like this or is yours just cursed?
definitely not a common problem, and hopefully something just temporary or most likely some kind of operator error.
Guys, just a warning for anyone buying the JD08 or JDXI… my keys broke when I played fast solos. My Arturia keystep 37 didnt break
i have read reports of keys breaking on xi, and I suppose you mean the K25 keyboard dock for the 08? yes, you have to treat these quite gently I believe but I have never had any issues.
Around 10:00, this is the vintage analog synth emulation!
yes, it would be perfect emulation, except the original vintage synth was digital :D
I have the slightest suspicion you and the JD-08 didn't gel that well. 🙂
(Seriously, those Roland online manuals are, to put it mildly, something they might want to improve upon. Things are labeled wrongly (as you've shown in the video), functions are explained in the most basic and short way possible, no tutorial whatsoever).
I'm still interested in this boutique even so with all of the problems you've encountered. But since Roland apparently discontinued the D-05, I'm still worried that they might do the same with the JD-08. Makes me think the boutiques are just hardware demos for the VSTs.
jd08 was their latest boutique so probably safe for a couple more years. it even has usb-c!
There's nothing wrong with the tuning. It always sounds like that when I play music! :)
it did have some nice funk to it, i will admit.
@@WoodyPianoShack Yea, it sounded more like an old singer who wasn't told he'd better quit :) (RIP Charles Aznavour)
Woodyyyyy... did you not watch 'Bad Gear?' 😆
always, but don't recall that episode. will def check it out, thanks.
This is one of the reasons I have moved completely to software synths (VST/AU-Plugins). Digital synthesizers with many sliders always have A/D and D/A circuit scanning problems.
The actual JD engine in my Jupiter-X is actually great, but the minuscule format of the JD-08 is just plain terrible. I cannot but feel that somewhere, one corner too many has been cut to create this little box. However, your video was quite amusing and fun to watch. Thank you!
yeah, well said! i would love to have all the jupiter x presets and sound engines in a boutique, now that would be one hell of a nice product! Don't need any realtime controls, just a zencore preset box would be the bomb.
Firstly you must ensure the audio is set to 48kHz for all video and audio devices.
Oh dear when Technology goes wrong 😮 sounds too tedious the little the buttons.😮 sounds like using a bigger midi controller is the answer.maybe needs a firmware update 🎉I think Roland makes great products so not sure what is going on 😊
Some cool sounds, the way they change with the knobs, makes me interested to hear more.
there are 4 macro sliders that do amazing things to the sound, need to show you later!
Woody.... We can Watch THIS for Hours!!!.... My Husband goes through THIS .....With EVERY Expensive piece of Gear He buys!!!!....He has the Worst GAS.... Buying Everything He sees on TH-cam!!....HE Will now tell Me... "Remember Woody!?!... He had a hard time too....let me see what This Button Does....Doough!!!!!"
this is the reality of all keyboard players, unfortunately. there is this dream/illusion of ultra creative dawless jamming creating amazing compositions in the blink of the eye, but the reality is we spend an hour trying to figure out how to transpose the keyboard and then give up.
It was punishing you for using a toy instead of a real midi keyboard! 😂
haha, true that. i thought it would be a good test of their docking keyboard, well we sure found out.
Re: tuning, you have to understand, Woody, that these old analogue devices can really drift out of tune when you’re using them in these harsh environments…
😂
As others have mentioned, crying and laughing right along with you! ❤
Really, the Roland JD-08 is very easy of use! And have great sound. Only need a one or two neurons for learn. But if you want something more complicated try a Teenage Engineering OP-Z
hahaha, yes i have seen that instrument and it looks so simple. i hear elektron boxes are really easy to learn too... :)
Well, that is a nice pad sound in the beginning, but it seems like you are fighting with that little keyboard except when you are playing the bass part. The tuning problems - painful! Thanks for going through it so we don’t have to.
yeah, exactly, lol! my pleasure (not).
I'm now convinced that it's easier to use a plugin version of the original JD-800.
yeah, roland have a real nice VST version, same sound engine.
Best demo ever : I like this trial and error scenarios
Cheers
Unless its the same problem, I've run into something similar with the S1 Roland. The lfos are activated always in a weird way that come in and go every 5 or so seconds. Menu diving a lot fixes it but with the cost of disappointing me from every adjustment.
there you go, yeah sounds similar. have a s1 myself but have not used it enough to notice any issues.
octave on the right
Yay! Someone that had a worse time with a new alien gizmo than I usually have.
The thing would probably be decent MIDI’d to the 61 key controller AND if there was a software controller on the PC/Apple to make up for lack of resolution on those short-throw sliders.
yep, agree with that. glad to hear i'm not the only one too!
I too have the JD-08, and whilst I love the sound of the module, it is a pain in the arse to use in boutique / K-25M form compared to my JU-06A and D-05 (Which I bought after I saw you demo a D-50, might have been a D-05)
I had a variety of struggles with my Roland Jupiter Xm. Not as bad as yours, but what I found was that the manual didn't help much and the official online support videos were often rendered useless by firmware updates. Roland clearly have issues with UX. I get the impression that the techies drive the product advancement and that the support teams can't keep up, or don't have the budget to. It's incredibly irksome, as there is an amazing sound engine hidden within these frustrating products. I kept my Roland purchase but I have heard of many others who weren't as patient.
thanks for the comment and well said! in this particular demo, my goal was simply to play some presets. how hard can it be? i figured a couple of hours prep would suffice, but seemingly not... :)
😂 Well done, mate 👍
Enjoyed the flute patch. Like a Clanger having a stroke!
lol, too funny! clanger occurred to me too as I edited the vid
If memory serves, you bought the JD used? Maybe you expense it on your taxes. As mentioned, one of the sliders may have gone bad. It does have great sounds, though.
the wiggle may have fixed it, time will tell. and maybe the factory reset for good measure if I ever figure that out.
Using a K25m makes all the boutiques unnecessarily bad…Roland undoubtedly should provide better manuals for these things for sure, seems like everyone’s depending on Loopop 😅
agree with that. imagine a slightly larger boutique and a 61 note dock that could accommodate a few devices. now that would be something.
Half a century of tech goes by without Roland hearing about UI/UX Design. Who cares if the instrument sounds good if i can't use it, or it does not feel nice to use. Apparently they have not heard of screens either.
I have a JX-08 (for which I also made a video) and it is a pretty awesome synth, which only falls short in its presets/voices and backup capabilities… if it had just a little bigger screen and a patch librarian compatibility this would be an awesome synth!
congrats, the jx is next on my list to mess up!
JX-08 owner here, definitely a frustrating device to work with. Seems to be the norm for modern Roland devices to be honest. I've got an MC-101 and it's also pretty unintuitive to work with (at least at first, you eventually get the hang of it, but user-friendly isn't a word I'd use to describe it!).
My biggest gripe with the JX (and applies to the JD also), is the complete lack of preset management. Just a single binary containing all presets in a way that's not simple to deconstruct (thankfully some intelligent folks have created aftermarket solutions for that, but it really shouldn't be necessary). Especially given that it's all built on ZenCore (and the Model Expansions for the JX/JD). No idea why they couldn't just let you manage and export preset banks via ZenologyPro like you can for the MC-101/707.
In saying that, I've just taken delivery of an MV-1, so possible a bit of Stockholm syndrome going on here...
Preset management sucks on the JX-08. Another thing that sucks is there is no way to see the values used in any of the presets. A slightly larger footprint with a real screen would really benefit the boutiques. I've had the JX-08 for quite some time and never really managed to do anything reasonable with it.
@@sonic2000gr Yeah absolutely. On the older ACB Boutiques, the presets were individual files that could be opened with a text editor to view the parameters.
If you search for "JX-08 Librarian", there's guy who recently released a preset manager for it. It allows pulling presets from multiple JX-08 preset files and creating new ones by combining them. Also allows you to name them (they'll either just be called INIT TONE or whatever preset they were cloned from previously).
He made a JD-08 one a few months back and it also allows for importing of JD-800 Model Expansion Zenology preset banks. Hoping the same functionality gets brought over to the JX version.
congrats on your JX, next on my list , and great points, thanks.
@@sonic2000gr Yeah absolutely, the earlier Boutiques (the ACB ones like the JU-06 & JP-08) had individual files for each preset that could be opened in a text editor and you could view all the parameter values.
If you're interested, search for the JX-08 Librarian, a guy created a tool that can extract the presets from the .svd files and create new ones with whatever presets you want. As well as being able to name them. He made an equivalent one for the JD-08 a few months back and it now has support for importing/exporting the ZenCore file format too which is cool. Hoping that comes to the JX version too.
Fairly sure I replied to this already, so if it comes through as a duplicate I apologise!
Yeah the MC-101 has pretty steep learning curve. I recently bought one to use as a sound module. But I have printed out all the manuals and addendums and have studied them. What I find confusing about the device is the how some of menu’s are setup. Some are under the utility button and others are under the track selection buttons. For some weird reason the midi settings are split between these different menu’s. What really baffles me about the default settings is how midi notes are transmitted. When you play the pads, the notes are transmitted (as one would expect), but when the sequencer is playing it doesn’t transmit the notes unless you change the midi transmit settings to turn this on. And you have to change this setting a per tracks basis. Argh! It trips me up everytime when I record a sequence from the MC-101 into Cubase. I get no midi onto the track, I scratch my head and then realise I have to change the settings on the MC-101 to get it to transmit the sequence. I really wonder why the designers choose such a weird default setting. Also, with Roland gear you always have to have the manuals at hand and get a USB ground loop isolator to fix the infamous high-pitched USB noise.
I felt your pain.........
Damm you Roland..........
😥
well, some blame has to be put on the demo guy, i will be first to admit
They're so small they cramp your style.
well i had very little to begin with... :D
Reminds me of the same experience I had when linking my Roland FA-06 to my computer.. problem after problem after problem.. Thank god for synth plugins (that work)
it's unbelievable how many tech issues we synth players need to solve. some people enjoy that, but it sometimes makes me want to turn it all off and go play banjo.
And I began watching this video thinking I should get me a JD-08. I began to reconsider. :)
It is an excellent, powerful, great-sounding synth...Hope you reconsider
@@riseofthemachine2623 I guess I will.. it's been on my need-to-explore-list for a long time :)
@@riseofthemachine2623 Maybe I'll get it of Woodys hands since we live like... 35 minutes away from each other ... ;)
yeah, don't let my clumsy attempts to do a demo deter you, i am sure that in the right hands, and with some expertise on how it works you'll get great results. i "only" did a few hours of prep before trying to play some presets.
@@WoodyPianoShack Don't get me wrong. I love this "demo" because it demonstrates much of the frustration you can have with new gear .. and old gear too. :) AND how much effort we put in making these videos.
Did u ask Roland if this was the free Jazz version, it went miles Jittery Davis 😀
lol, yes thE JD-JAZZ
Every Roland is very powerfull and deep. Don't even think to use Rolands in any serious production without some prior experience with the device and reading a PDF manual. Don't be lazy! RTFM! Rolands are the complex devices, not some "knob per function" synths. For example, JD-Xi allows you to have individual Filter and ADSR envelopes on every DrumSet sound, or Juno DS allows you to fine tune every key if you wish, even System-1 has some hidden functions like FM oscillators. Can you imagine lots of such options without some interface comromises and some menu diving?
yeah that's fair enough, I agree. although did several jd-xi demos with equal amounts of prep and absolutely no such challenges :)
@WoodyPianoShack Sure, but the JD-Xi has a sequencer-oriented front panel. The said JD-Xi has three oscillators per digital part, all with dedicated LFOs, filter types, and ADSR envelopes. There's no way to bring everything out to the front panel. If you were to program a sound with the JD-Xi, you'd be going into the menus. Personally, I absolutely love Roland's manuals and menus. I find them so efficient and interesting. But that's just me. I like deep editing, text menus, knobs, etc. Some people love modular synths and a spaghetty of wires. We're used to intuitive GUIs and touchscreens these days, but there's a reason Roland doesn't add a touchscreen to every unit. Just imagine the cost of an average smartphone added to the cost of every Roland. I'd honestly prefer PDF manuals and some menu diving instead, lol
I disagree about worst demo, and the sounds are very good to my ears ! Best regards
for sure the synth can make some lovely sounds, but I stand by that this is a catastrophic demo!
The sounds out of that little thing are great. It might just need to be MIDI'd up to a real keyboard for ease of play and inspiration? EDIT: Just saw the bit about the MIDI problems... ouch
the midi issue was only related to clock with the drum machine, it'll be fine with a real keyboard controller and i'm sure it will sound superb. can't wait to give it another shot actually...
Typical Roland gear. Needs to be Rain man to remember the button combinations.
What a ball-ache
Had one of these - the sound is pretty good, and plays well with a full-size keyboard.. can't understand why you'd put yourself through the torture of that K25M. Even the sliders are not that terrible, but I got frustrated with the layer select buttons - it really needed separate layer select and layer mute/unmute buttons for programming. The cryptic menus for effects are a real PITA and the inability to pan each layer independently was annoying too. Never had those tuning issues though - a MIDI issue? (edit.. ok.. maybe noisy sliders - maybe not been kept in a dust free environment).
good comment and points, thanks! i think i wanted to show how well or bad it works with the keyboard that is designed and intended for the boutiques. but i agree it is a nightmare for the type of playing that the synth deserves.
@@WoodyPianoShack The K25M/boutique format was an odd choice by Roland. Slightly larger modules and a 61 Key dock, or simply a stand designed to work with their keyboards would have been a lot more useful. I made myself some custom wooden enclosures to stack 2X 4 voice modules to run them in overflow mode for 8 voices.. bit of a faff with USB cables and mini jacks, and requiring DIN connections between the units. The SH4D is a much more practical design, but the sound quality and real polyphony is a bit lacking IMO.
that was an interesting video
thx
that is one word for it, yes, thanks!
Ps, i haven't had any patch pitch or key drifting issues with mine. 🤞
i am pretty sure mine is fixed now also. as i was stumbling around trying to find octave shift maybe i activated some hidden easter egg feature to simulate aging the synth by 30 years. :)
@@WoodyPianoShack I'm not 100% sure about the tuning issue but the JD08 has a function that when you move a parameter on the small faders or knobs (also coarse and fine tune) the big faders (A, B, C and D) are then automatically connected to that. This is a feature for the users to better fine tune values from small faders. Maybe you just touched the fine tuning by accident or it sent some noise and then when touching the A, B, C, D sliders you changed pitch without knowing that these sliders were now controlling fine tuning.
Lol good one Woody
I would be using it with a DAW and a 5 octave keyboard for a start. The DAW can set octaves easily. I thought that little add on keyboard might be useful but after seeing your video I realised not so. I have not bought it as yet. I used to own the JD800 and sold it and I am looking for some form of replacement. ( I have replaced it in a fashion with Lunaris 2 as I used it for pads mostly and Lunaris 2 actually blows it away for pads!) It's funny that a noisy slider can cause an issue even in that version. The real JD had a very similar issue too. I have a feeling or hoping they will re issue it and it will be much better. You need to be able to mange banks much more easily as well. And be able to load in 64 patch sysex banks etc..Maybe the Roland Cloud software version is the way to go. I think you will find the sound will be the same but it will work far better and easier inside a DAW.
the 2 octave keyboard seems more of a cool looking gimmick although might actually be usable for something like an SH101 boutique, or drum machine even, not not for expressive and playable synths like d50 or jd800.
My JD-08 arrived me on Wednesday, on Saturday i sold it. It was a pain to use it , so i bought a JX-08, a fantastic Synth.
lol, that is hilarious! maybe mine will hang around a bit longer :)
@@peter-utrblk the jd-08 isn't a synth for the faint hearted. Not much deep detail from instructions manual, three parameters settings modes on most the knobs n buttons and if you you move one wrong slider by mistake 😔. Would have been better if a software controller came out with it but alas none😔
If you measure the MIDI output in a monitoring program (if it happens again), you mind see "MIDI murmur" caused by a bad slider and continuous controller data sent, but maybe not. If it is defective it would be fun to see you take a sledge hammer to it for ratings!
midi murmer, good one! more like midi chatter tho! will try that out sometime. although the parameter value is displayed on screen when changed, it was not the case when it was drifting in tune.
All those mini Rolands are like that. You get used to them the more you use them. I use a full size midi controller with mine as my fingers are too chunky for minikeys.
yeah, true, it is tough in the beginning, but I thought i am only playing presets, how hard can it be...? :D
@@WoodyPianoShack Was yours second hand? Wondered if someone had tinkered with the presets before selling it on.
@@Fl4ppers that's some pretty sophisticated sound design then to make it work perfectly until you are half way thru the demo tune :) but yeah, second hand, but I still don't think defective. will test more when my mood improves :)
Why not make a rackmount version? JD-990? that is the answer.
yeah, interesting idea. the integra covers that pretty well. i would love a desktop sound module featuring best of zencore, but perhaps in slightly larger and more pro format than boutiques, proper line out for example.
Are you sure you're cut out for this?
you might have hit the nail on the head. but i would say i represent a pretty typical synth player so useful and representative for other typical synth players perhaps.
Yeah, I see, you started recording video without knowing your tools.
not quite, i did spend a half day prepping and all was fine, although only when recording did I realize it would be nice with an octave shift. you seem to know your stuff, how would you handle the keyboard drifting out of tune in the middle of a recording?
@WoodyPianoShack Some Rolands (for example, my System-1) have a tendency to react to vibration during playing. It happens with knobs when I don't use them for a very long time. There is some lubricant inside all the faders and knobs which needs to be in use at least sometimes. Otherwise something happens with the contacts (maybe they oxidize, I don't know for sure). It is true for the entire AIRA line, including MC-707 or System-8, it is also true for the knobs of my Juno DS. The device has to be in use, otherwise after every long break the knobs start to be triggered via vibration and show uneven transitions when turning them. After a goid 'warmup' and a dozen of full knob movements the device works fine and functions as normal. Until you again leave it untouched for months. So I turn all the knobs and move all the faders at least once a two weeks to avoid that. To be fair, this isuue is known not only for Roland. My Canon camera's buttons start to glitch if I don't use them. And again, after a 'warmup' and more frequent use the device starts to work fine and shows no issues.
@@WoodyPianoShack It seems that TH-cam deleted my answer, but I'll try again. All the knobs and faders need to be in use at least once a month. Otherwise something happens with the contacts (oxidization?) and the knobs start to react to vibration during playing or show uneven transitions when entering parameters. After a good use and a dozen of full turns of knobs the device starts to function as normal until you again leave it unused for several weeks. There is some lubricant inside all the knobs and faders which has to be in use.
@@Acrimonious_Snake makes a lot of sense, thanks! in fact this hadn't been used for at least 6 months. i will do some vigorous knob twiddling before the next performance.
@@WoodyPianoShack The buttons on my Canon EOS-M also tend to glitch when I'm not using the camera. After a good run, everything works like new. But wait! Even our hands get rusty if we don't play enough!
To whom would you sell it?
i actually don't believe it to be defective. just some configuration or operator error more likely, but needs more investigation.
Maybe you just got a defective unit? If you sell it, I'm sure you will say how crappy it sounds and sell it as a defective unit?
i don't think it sounds crappy, and if it is defective it will go direct to recycling,
@@WoodyPianoShack Sell it as defective, lots of handy people love buying broken things to try and fix or use as spare parts.
Maybe it's just broken.
worked perfectly during the preparation
I think your problem is that you didn't buy some tweezers before doing the demo 😀
you saw some nose hair? oh, for the faders, ok. :)