Literally everyone in the Federation already knows who Michael Burnham is. She's infamous. She was Starfleet's first mutineer and the woman who countless billions of people across multiple worlds blame for starting the Klingon war, costing the lives of millions. I don't think Spock pretending not to remember her is going to do the trick.
Honestly! I was like how do you "forget" all of that?!? Never mention her name again. It's all over Starfleet databases! Why didn't they just start the show in the far flung future to begin with? Would have made more sense.
Problem I see, Star Trek Lore and History suggest that James T. Kirk, for example, is well remembered, and legendary, despite that he was breaking every Star Fleet rule that ever existed, in fact many more were made because of him. I find it hard to believe anyone could simply "Forget" technology and what happened, in Discovery. One item I liked about newer movies, they went into facts that Star Fleet was attempting to start a war and preparing for it. I find it hard to believe, Star Fleet themselves, wouldn't be attempting to use that technology--even if secretly. Logically, it doesn't work...plot wise.
@Tyrone Ward Pfft I'd take orange man over Killary any day, liberal wankers just hate him because he doesn't virtue signal like every other bullshit artist on the hill, and people have gotten sick and tired of virtue signalling wankers who only care about minorities and forget the majority
Starfleet to Janeway: yeah sorry you're stuck on the other side of the galaxy, but we absolutely positively don't have anyway to help rescue you or your crew, honest.
They really didn't though because the only way Stamets could make the drive work was through Tardigrade DNA which they got from an actual tardigrade. No tardigrade, no dna, no genetic manipulation, no spore drive basically.
The spore drive is just a terrible story element all around. It's a deus ex machina that only serves to weaken the plot of any story it's used in. Having limits that characters have to over come in believable ways is how good storytelling is done. And if a writer wants to bring back the spore drive in a future series then a tardigrade or alien species that is very similar to a tardigrade will magically appear.
@@darrengaroutte7744 In theory the spore drive is an interesting idea but the show really ties itself into knots to explain why only Discovery has it and why such an advanced warp drive has never been mentioned or used again in any of the other Star Trek series. I know a lot of younger fans like Discovery but the writing is honestly kind of bad and the show tries to cover it up with heavy use of cgi (and personally I feel the visual and lighting choices the show has make the cgi not look very good and blurs a lot of background details together).
That should've been a huge red flag right there. In a perfect world, saying something like that should get you fired and replaced. But in our world, nothing happens and he's basically cheered on by the brainwashed idiots.
Sorry David that will never happen. In SJW anything, women always like each other, never get on each other's nerves since they're perfect, and usually turn out to be lesbians.
@@All2Meme the three of them would stand around saying, "You go girl", until Michael and Rey start kissing. Michael and Rey would then get it on, leaving Captain Marvel on the outs, because even other Mary Sues don't really like her.
@@mikeonthecomputer I've been noticing a connecting theme though with the love stories this season, especially after seeing Isaac and doctor finn. A lot of these stories are one-sided with characters falling for fantasies.
I disagree, the show did have some good characters in it. Lorca was a pretty awesome character throughout season 1 and Saru is probably the best new alien addition to the franchise in 20 years. To bad the show still sucks though.
It's the ultimate anti-trek, all glitter no substance. I'd rather rewatch TNG or watch Orville. Thank you, Dave, for consuming this heaping pile of self-serving propaganda so that I can retain the little sanity I have left.
Well I get your criticism but I don't think u paid attention to what was going on throughout the season. Even though Leland was defeated by Georgoiu the threat remained very much real as Leland was just a vessel that Control was inhabiting. Don't forget the fact Control was able to take over all of the Section 31 systems including controls of all the ships. Don't forget that Control took over/reanimated a body of Michael's friend from Shenzou. Control was an AI system that had to loose it's purpose and that purpose was to posses the SPhere Data in order to become self concious. Control wanted to eradicate all intelligent life in the universe and to do so It needed to understand everything( all processes in the universe and the history of all spiecies. After all the sphere was gathering data for centuries and contained the information about all life forms known to it). I agree that they turned Michael into too much of a hero. But the story made sense. Story on Terralisium said that Red Angel gathered all the people it could in the church and simply held onto the church while being sucked into the past again thus transporting the church and all inside onto Terralisium. They have built the town themselves while living there. Thing about the merged religions is in my opinion a bit too far fetched too because they would simply need representatives of all religions to create one that truly connects all of them. I doubt they had people of all beliefs in that church at the time. I too agree that it was stupid idea to ditch all that technology after all it wasn't all bad it was just the Discovery itself that had the sphere data not the spore drive technology. I partially agree with you and disagree at the same time as I did enjoy the show despite its flaws.
The Magicians spent the last 15 minutes of their season finale' saying goodbye to a character and they had me in tears. STD spent a entire episode saying goodbye to Michael and I was meh.
Quentin, even in the Underworld, questioned his motives- whether they were for his own desires or doing it to save everyone. Michael seems like a new GI Joe character in the wrong franchise.
The sphere data only assumes control over discovery when something threatens its existence. It's intelegent A.I. If they kept hitting it with torpedoes it would eventually either return fire or jump into warp. It lets them return and control the ship so because these actions are not a direct threat to the data. But they can't fly it into star because the sphere data will see what they're doing and prevent it. They can't eject the computer core (if that is even possible) because the sphere data will see what they're doing and prevent it. The only way to get the data out of Controls grasp is an option that does not involve trying to distroy it.
Discovery's kiss-off to the three TOS characters is to have them commit perjury, a serious felony crime. So now Captain Pike, Number One, and Spock are criminals, and it wasn't even necessary because the Discovery and the spore drive and Number One do not need to be hidden.
Add them to the list of Discovery characters who should be in prison:
Michael Burnham, mutineer and war-starter;
Empress Georgiou, genocidal maniac, etc;
Ash/Voq, murderer;
Lorca, traitor, etc;
Harry Mudd, mass murderer, serial killer, traitor, etc;
To be fair, I will play the devil's advocate here (or at least offer my own thoughts) in regards to your list of characters who should be in prison. Michael Burnham was formally pardoned of her crimes, if I recall correctly. We may not like it that she essentially gets away with starting a war that cost millions, if not billions, of lives (though the Klingons were spoiling for a fight, anyway), but that's the way pardons work. Personally, I find her insufferable and arrogant, and the only reason she's constantly right all the time about pretty much everything is the magic of Plot Armor. However, given the number of times she interrupts and contradicts Pike, I'd throw her in the brig for near-constant insubordination. Empress Georgiou is indeed a genocidal, sentient-eating xenophobic dictator - in the Mirror Universe. Arguably, the prime universe's Federation has no grounds to imprison her until she commits a crime within their jurisdiction. (Michael should probably have just left her to die in the Mirror Universe.) That said, fairly unique circumstances, and Discovery does have computer data backing up the fact that Georgiou is a complete psycho who should NOT be left running free. Tyler/Voq is an unusual case. I do not hold him responsible for the death of Hugh Culber. The Tyler personality was completely ignorant of what Voq was doing, and it's Tyler who's now the dominant personality. He does have Voq's memories, but it's clearly Tyler in ascendance. Watch him with L'rell, when he confesses that a romantic touch from her feels like a violation now. But while I don't hold him legally responsible for what he did before to Culber, I really think he should be in a psychiatric hospital or at least under a doctor's care, rather than left unattended. And I certainly wouldn't put him in charge of an important and largely unsupervised intelligence apparatus. Lorca is dead. By the time they knew he was a Mirror Universe imposter, it was far too late to do something like throw him in jail. And, again, he's dead now and that's that. Harry Mudd definitely should be in prison. Forever. Calling Tilly a traitor seems a bit extreme, but there's definitely place for disciplinary action. She neglected to report an intruder on board the ship, for one. L'Rell is the chancellor of the Klingon High Council and is thus beyond the reach of Federation justice at the moment. But if you mean that she should've been imprisoned permanently when Starfleet had her in their custody, I'll run with that. It's not clear that she ever actually raped Tyler, and it's even implied that his memories of such encounters with her are actual residual memories of a genuine romantic relationship between her and Voq. When Tyler expresses discomfort with her close touch in Season 2, she immediately jerks her hand away. As for torture, well, yes, she definitely did that. And the original Ash Tyler is definitely dead, having provided his body parts, memory, and identity to craft Voq's undercover persona. And that is a crime that everyone - including the current Tyler (for some reason) - seems to forget these days. Admiral Cornwell is dead and beyond human justice. Frankly, I think her problem is more outright stupidity and obliviousness than being outright evil. And that, really, was the fault of the way she was written. Come on, guys, she was a headshrinker before she was an admiral! Yet she buys all pretty much everything both Mirror Lorca and Emperor Georgiou (plus Section 31) say hook, line, and sinker! Were I her boss, I'd see her cashiered from Starfleet for being a total idiot.
Greetings, Evenmoor. Thank you for your intelligent and balanced reply to my comment. I enjoy thought-provoking television, like TOS, and I enjoy thought-provoking comments just as much. In fact, your reply caused me to re-examine my comment very carefully.
Although I still believe that the real point of my comment is valid, I could certainly have worded it better. For example, I could have said this: the producers and writers of Discovery have created a universe in which the majority of the main characters are not being properly punished for their crimes; this runs contrary to the optimism of Gene Roddenberry, who believed that we could, and WOULD, make the world a better (and safer) place; and it causes concern that the creative people behind Discovery are unaware that misdeeds should be punished for the sake of justice and fairness. That is a statement that I am prepared to defend.
Having said that, it seems to me that we are more in agreement than disagreement. For example, I agree that: Michael Burnham should be thrown in the brig for recurring insubordination; "Georgiou is a complete psycho who should NOT be left running free"; Tyler should be in a psychiatric hospital or at least under a doctor's care; Harry Mudd should be in prison forever; Tilly should face disciplinary action; L'Rell "should've been imprisoned permanently when Starfleet had her in their custody"; and, Cornwell should be dismissed from Starfleet. [I sincerely hope that I have not mis-represented any of your comments, nor taken them out of context - - please correct me if I have.]
This is the kind of discussion that I enjoy. Let me close this comment with that part of the old Irish blessing that Kirk referred to in The Search for Spock: "May the wind be at our backs".
@ Richard WW . Hello, Richard. You have expressed some interesting ideas.
However, according to Memory Alpha:
"... Pike, Number One, Spock, and Tyler are debriefed by Starfleet Command ..."
and "The Starfleet interviewers ..."
and "... Pike replies that she went above and beyond before her death, and blames Section 31 for the whole catastrophe. Starfleet Command agrees, promising to reform Section 31 ...".
[Those excerpts are from the Memory Alpha article on "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"] The interviewer wore a Starfleet uniform, and a Starfleet badge (visible when he says, "I am eager to hear ..."). On the whole, I think the interview was done by Starfleet proper, though it is not absolutely certain.
Even if there is, as you say, "... the possibility that they will tell Starfleet the 'real' story but just didn't want to tip-off this interviewer ...", I would find the writers and producers guilty of a very disturbing fault: ending the season with the clear impression that Pike, Number One, Spock (and Ash) are perjurers. That is not something that should be left hanging until Season Three. Honestly, I don't believe they even thought about it; it was just their attempt to bring Discovery back into line with canon by making it all confidential.
I agree with everything you said. It's funny because eden was my favourite episode, it felt the most like classic trek but the story of how the colony got there makes no sense (now that we have seen the whole season)
>Why the spore drive should be abandoned It is maybe the only thing that they did explain. It was an ecological disaster that rips through mushroom network and hurting living and sentient beings inside it.
Already posted this under a couple videos, with no answears so far. - all 7 signals show up at the same time, but Michael still has to create the last 2 remaining ones at the end, ... ????? - She can only do one jump with the time crystal, she cant come back, .... jumps like 5 times to the past and then 950 years to the future, ... and then back again to create the last signal???? - Control is dead, they still travel to the future, ... WHY??? - If the time travel suit is that powerful and easy to construct, why dont just go back and stop the creation of control entirely???? Season 2 makes ZERO sense if you think about the entire plot for a minute, ... ZERO!
-The seven signals each show up twice. One time all at once, and then each again one more time. -She doesn't travel back to send the final signal; she sends it through the wormhole. -Control-in-Leland is dead; they don't know whether or not there's still a version of it out there. -It isn't easy to construct. It requires a time crystal, which needs to be powered. They prioritize getting the Sphere data away from Control; going back to stop it from being created isn't guaranteed to succeed, and interfering with the established timeline could just as easily create new problems. It's a time travel plot, so of course it doesn't make perfect sense, but it's hardly as bad as you make it out to be.
@@lDanielHolm Ok, ok, makes atleast a tiny bit more sense now, thank you. But the timetravel suit thingy is still kinda, ... easy to make, considering theres like hundreds, if not thousand growing on a planet that seems to not be protected that great! Plus the suit itseld was constructed pretty quick, in a middle of a fight.
Yeah, another indication that Season 2 had at least two and possibly even three phases of writing that had nothing to do with each other and minimal cross-referencing by the staff writers.
@@lDanielHolm We can't forget the fact that Leland was just one of the tools Control was using there was defo more because Michael came across one when she discovered that ONE alive crew member from one of the ships control took over. He was reanimated just like leland so to me there was mmore of them than just Leland himself. Control was in all of the Section 31 ships.
Although being (most of the time) without the original Spock's (Leonard Nimoy) charisma. He played a very difficult role. After captain Pike. He was my second favorite actor. Played a very believable Spock in all the scenes. Except when he showed his "feelings" for Burnam.
absolutly. Why not introducing a new Vulcan at all? Recognizing old Star Trek didnt seem to be important, or why have they altered the Klingons so badly? Omg...im so disappointed by all of this crap.
@Zerebrat Eightyseven Yes, they found out that it was a bad idea to alter the species every person on earth with a TV, from the russian grand-ma to the chilene coalminer, recognize at first glance and finally have showed one no-name Klingon in the last episode after two season correctly. Congratulation Kurtzman!
What I just can’t understand is what people see in this show, all I see on social media is 5 stars and how “brilliant” STD is. Have we really fallen so far?
For people that doesn't have a relationship with the franchise, STD is actually a good series, if you watch thinking that is a werever scifi series is fun and have some cool characters, such as Mr Saru, Phillipa Georgio, Tilly and Linus.
@@israeldiaz2392 It's not even a good stand alone show. It does look great. Scenes are often shot well, especially action sequences. However, the writing is horrid. It can't even maintain consistency within its own universe and often falters within episodes. The show is a black hole where logic and intelligence go to die.
The more I see and hear about STD, the more outraged I become at how vile and disgusting it is. They've destroyed Roddenberry's wholesome family show by turning it into a dark, sinister "horror film" like production aimed at a totally different audience. And not content on that, it seems now that they've actually brought Pike, Spock and Kirk into their show, to trample on these characters! This is just too much. This TV show is EVIL. I feel so strongly about this. They should not be ALLOWED to destroy a franchise like this. A beloved franchise like Star Trek should be legally "protected" by the law, so that people who make new series must continue the spirit of the original franchise, instead of turning into a depraved sick celebration of filth and darkness.
The 2 part finale was brilliant! I loved it and I love that the Star Trek universe can finally expand with the split off of Discovery. It is greatly needed for fans that want to have Star Trek for years to come!
A Star Trek show featuring the adventures of Captain Pike, Number One and Mister Spock aboard the Enterprise? That's what Gene Roddenberry wanted in the first place. We've come full circle.
Jamie Cameron-Brown When I was younger and still a kid I watched STE and loved it, it was a trek show and despite the weirdness was strong. STD was not Trek nor strong
@@tyvernoverlord5363 Enterprise had better established actors though, they knew how to do parts. If anything, that was a saving grace for Enterprise. These actors in Discovery...well.
If you didn't like Enterprises I dare say you didn't watch it all, yes it started out slow but once it got going it was a fantastic addition to the franchise.
Man, you nailed it... But you forgot to mention how the Enterprise apparently had more fighters and drones than an aircraft carrier of nearly the same size!
Watch Anti-trekker's reactions to this whole episode and his breakdown of how 'original' it all is. He called them out on every POS plot point they ripped from other properties. It truly was glorious.
The Sphere data's significance was explained in previous episodes. Burnham's mother determined that the Sphere (Which was some V'Ger like space probe) contained data that in the original timeline was acquired by Control and the AI was able to use the data to achieve true sentience and begin purging all organic life in the galaxy. They tried to delete the data but it put up firewalls in the computer to prevent them from doing so leaving the destruction of Discovery as the only option. The issue is this information was not covered in the recap at the start of the episode so you had to watch 4 other episodes to learn that the sphere data, that's the flaw with a series designed for binge watching instead of being episodic.
5 ปีที่แล้ว +6
Who’s more powerful? Burnham, Rey, or Captain Marvel.
As for why Control wanted the sphere data, that was at least explained in an earlier episode. Supposedly the data included information that would allow Control to "become a fully-realized AI". From what I saw, I didn't know what the fuck they were talking about, since Control seemed pretty goddamned "fully-realized" as an AI to me.
One way to do this is like a react video to avoid being sued for copyright. Audience would have to cue up both videos and sync their timestamps in order to make this work in a Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Rainbow sort of way....
I've given up watching all videos concerning Star Trek Discovery, as I have my own ideas concerning this series and they don't seem to jive with the way most people think. And this guy seems to like to complain for the sake of doing so. I had many issues with the first season, but almost, none with season two. I do hope there will be a season three. Still longing to see a series focused on the Vulcan Species, Culture and Home World, and also, on Star Fleet Academy and the Federation of Planets, and maybe, just maybe, the more VISIONARY, of Trek Enthusiast will do that one day. My Trek Best. Out.
I agree. I think a lot of it has to do with Sonequa as the lead, to be honest. People are mad about plot points in a way that is....reaching. This show is great.
Not sure if this is where I should be asking, but am looking forward to your continued dissection in the autopsy that is Star Trek Discovery, no surprise you'll hate it but at least some of us could get good content from you if you did decide to keep going reviewing it, up to you I guess
in this episode, Dave jumps on the trek-hating train and... well, echoes other trek haters and sells it as his own thoughts. also, "i watched it, so you don't have to"... Ginger Dave is the ultimate authoratttaaa!!! if Dave says, it's no good, don't you dare watch it , puny humans. but do donate, puny humans.
So glad to see this, was wondering if I was the only one rolling my eyes this entire season. Was really hoping it would improve at some point but seemed to really peak at the end.
1. It is explained in previous episodes as to why control wants the sphere data, and what will happen if Control gets it. 2. Anyone can find similarities to anything created today. unfortunately we are over saturated with literature and movies. for a star trek series however it is something that has never happened in any other series therefore makes for entertaining story 3. The real life Paul Stamets actually theorizes the existence of a galactic mycelium network that could possibly do just as discovery did. 4. I am a life long fan of all the star trek series and the one thing they all have in common is the tend to reflect the times we live in. and with the increased level of access to information and misdirection from our governments, media and yes even the world of movie and tv this series does so very well. The season finally was epic and yes i do see similarities but forced or unoriginal would not be what i would use. perhaps expected, regular or standardize hero play would best describe because lets face it there hasnt been much originality in anything recently produced.... i personally fucking love the discovery series, and i have high hopes for the Picard series. #Startrek>starwars #fightme
Huge continuity problem now - Wouldn't Starfleet take the secrecy off of the spore drive to save Voyager and have her travel back home in a blink? Wouldn't that also be one major advantage over the Borg? Don't forget that there were two ships at one time with spore drives. Are all of those people just going to keep silent?
Regarding the whole Terralysium thing, it was my understanding that just the church and the people inside of it were transported, not the whole town. Since it’d been there for quite a while the town and number of occupants grew a little. Still doesn’t give the writing a pass though, just helping out.
Ty for watching that Abomination of dood dood show. Every day Im glad i did see that free 1st episode. Dam i wish i could hang out with u, ur just so refreshing.
Since I never the last two Terminator films, I never got the Leland/John Connor ref o.0 However, they did borrow enough from Trek Beyond and Ender's Game during the battle. As well, when Spock talks about forgetting everything, and people will be charged with treason etc - my brain went to The Simpsons' "The Principal and the Pauper" (had to Google the ep name) but I knew the story.. which has one of my fave lines, "But I'm a war hero" "And we salute you" before shipping Real Skinner out of town o.0 And yes, with Klutzman and the gang still in charge, I don't expect Trek to improve in the coming years... Thanks for sharing, Dave!!
The most star trek way to deal with the issue of the data trying to preserve itself would be to communicate with it. Its clearly intelligent given how its able to defend itself and perceive and understand technology. How else would it know the ship it is in is being shot?
Not that I don't mostly agree with your views on the episodes (or the show) the scene where Discovery protects itself from them firing on it to destroy it didn't actually happen - Michael was still experiencing visions from her experience with the time stone, and she m fire on discovery which triggered the shields just BEFORE they actually did it - which in turn meant the future would be set that they couldn't get back on board -so she shouted to them to not fire, that it wouldn't work, and stopped them, therefore Discovery's shields didn't get triggered in response, and they were able to beam back aboard.
Oh yeah and it was ridiculous how the ba'uul ships(piloted by kelpians) just show up unexpectedly at the end to help out. Saru's sister goes from knowing nothing about what's out there to being a fighter pilot. The baa'ul were actually pretty creepy/scary. I wish they would have made that episode a two-parter.
I really enjoyed the very end... but my Hope of STD becoming about the Enteprise discovering the vast reaches of space.... well... l found out it was renewed with the old cast...😉
So it's been a long time since I saw the original original series pilot with Pike or the two parter with Kirk where we saw what became of him, but my question from the the time we saw the crew of the enterprise, what happened to the red head from those episodes? It felt like she was the only character from that story who didn't get to play a part in this series.
this reminds me of the end of moffat's run on doctor who where he turned his original character clara into the singularly most important character in the show's canon. to hell with 50 years of other characters and stories, mine supersede all of them dang it.
To be fair, outside of Martha and Mickey, EVERY New Who companion got that: Rose - Bad Wolf Jack - Time-Wimey Immmortality, possibly The Face of Boe Donna - Doctor Donna Amy - The Girl Who Waited (imagined the entire universe back into existence) Rory - The Last Centurian
Carl Rood Still doesn’t top Mary Sue Clara. The doctor is all those instance was a self made man. Clara it turns out comforted him when he was child, gave him the trades, and saves him throughout his timeline. She made him the doctor and if she hadn’t none of those others things would have happened. The docto-Donna, Bad wolf.
They explained why they need the sphere data... control wants to become sentient...and he needs the data to do that, there was a exposition on it in a earlier episode..sorry you missed that part..
You know that other star trek series set over 100 years later which involved a vessel being thrown into the gamma quadrant which took 7 years to get home... If only they had that old spore drive tech that could teleport instantly anywhere in the galaxy :) So much for star trek canon.
In response to two of your points; Whilst I agree the existential threat of A.I. is not a new plot element in the Sci-fi genre, however, an awareness of the leaps in A.I. technology, quantum computing and the Transhumanism movement renews the relevance of the subject to today's audience. My second point is in response to you proffering the destruction of the Discovery by flying it into a star etc. as a better resolution to the 'control getting the sphere data' issue. With the sphere data preventing the destruction of the Discovery, how exactly would that have worked? The time travel option would not destroy the data, merely remove it from the reach of control.
Well keep in mind if you've got access to the ship you could just plant a bomb next to the computer core and blow it to hell from the inside. Or you know, just keep firing torpedos form the enterprise. Discovery's shields have limits to what they can deflect, it's not like the AI can somehow exceed the technical specs of the shield generators.
Biggest plot hole that hit me from the start... why didn't they just spore drive-jump their asses to the other side of the galaxy or something. Or jump randomly around, becoming nigh unpredictable as to where they were. Or jump straight to Earth and get into realtime contact with Starfleet. Leland's ships would have still been limited to warp drive... Now, as a dumb barely-Star Trek romp, Season Two was, honestly, not that terrible -- compared to the first, at least. I don't how well the Pike character lines up with his TOS counterpart, but I generally found him to be the most charismatic character on the current show. Indeed, Pike was the most enjoyable aspect. And if it had to be a serialized series, I would have preferred the story arc follow him. Frankly, while it may or may not have been disrespectful to include such a historical character in this show, I think Season Two would have been far worse without him. So Pike was alright by me. So was Jet Reno, the sarcastic engineer the Discovery's crew evacuated from a crashed starship earlier in the season. I greatly enjoyed her wit, although, I couldn't help but roll my eyes when she became "just another gay character". It doesn't really matter to me that the actress is gay herself, but it just struck me that the show couldn't seem to bring on more than one "regular guy" character (besides Pike) and the constant obvious political messaging. One area that gained a little approval was that Season Two attempted to bring the Klingons back in line with their classic pre-TOS/post-TOS appearance. Namely growing some bloody hair again. There was one Klingon on the bridge of the Chancellor's ship in, I believe, the final episode who appeared to be a reasonable modern interpretation of what we saw in shows like TNG, Voyager, Enterprise, etc. I don't know if it was a bit of fan service but it hit the right notes with me compared to their awful first season appearance. And, of course, the most annoying element still remains to be Michael Burnham. And this isn't because of her sex or race or the character naming or any such rubbish. But, again, I couldn't help but roll my eyes at the show continuously hinting at her as the absolute be-all, end-all character. I remember Spock saying that Burnham (paraphrasing) "insists on taking responsibility for everything." No, I didn't get that vibe at all. This didn't feel like a burden for Burnham. Rather, it felt like sheer arrogance on her part in assuming that everything was about her. Her absolute confidence at one point that she was the Red Angel, for example, before we actually see her "become such" in the finale. I don't know. I don't bloody know. My final conclusion is that Season Two *was* better than the first, by far, but it still absolutely fell short of anything original. No idea if there will be a Season Three. If there is, I'll probably still watch it for the hell of it -- that, and to form my own opinions rather than relying on others to tell me how to think about it. Again, it's not a *terrible* dumb space romp if you can look past the political messaging and relative unoriginality. I'll even give it some big credit on excellent costume design and visuals. 5/10 in terms of Star Trek as a series. 6/10 in terms of plot originality. 9/10 in terms of visual effects. 7/10 in terms of general enjoyability if we look at it as a stand-alone television series.
Considering how Micky Spook was the most famous person in the Federation for both starting the war and ending it and being Star Fleet's first mutineer, I can't buy them being able to bury her existence.
If they were trying to suggest Kirk in Burnham's advice, it shows the writers don't get TOS, only thesKelvin-verse. Kirk is NOT the furthest person from Spock. MCCOY IS!!! That's the the whole point of the trio. Spock is logic, McCoy is emotion, and Kirk is the MIDDLE. It's why he relies on both of them for advice. If you look at the backstory tidbits TOS gave us about Kirk, his more reckless attributes came later. He described himself as "grim" during his Academy days. Gary Mitchell described him as a "walking pile of books" in his younger days. As an ensign, he reported an error committed by his friend, Ben Finney. This was a by the book young man. I suspect it was his failure against the cloud creature where he lost his captain and many fellow crew members that led to Kirk being the guy who wants to be front and center when facing danger.
Things I liked about season 2: Great Special Effects, Story is at least a bit better than season 1. Things I hated about season 2: No sense of urgency. There were so many scenes where everything was going to hell but they somehow have time to have a heart to heart conversation. I also notice they sometimes forget the basics like you CANNOT use the transporter when the ship has it's shields up and yet they do.
I don’t care that the writing could be better I love the show. I’ve watched every episode multiple times and will again, I’ve also been a fan of Star Trek since the next generation
At least when we had largely male protagonist they usually had floors, suffered failure & had to transform. The feminist porn we are feed shows that wamen view themselves as perfect in every way with the only limitations & floors been external barriers created & imposed on them by men.
Nice rant, I agree with you this whole show was forced upon us, and they even tried fixing the klingons in the end, which still looked ridiculous, the updated D7 cruisers looked cool though...
Dave Cullen, Thank you, thank you, thank you!! Your analysis is spot on! Those last two episodes were painful. It was like the whole team of writers pounding a square peg into a round hole.
Remember, Kurtzman did come up with this spore drive stuff. I think discovery going to the future is his way of starting over. I'm hopeful for the new show runners for season 3 and the timeframe they will be set in.
I don’t hate DSC, I think it could be so much better with different writers. Michael Burnham in concept is a Great character and I never felt she was deified, she is actually portrayed as a psychologically damaged woman, who is working through all the traumas in her life (loosing her parents to Klingons, carrying the guilt for that, being raised by a Vulcan father, assassination attempts by „logic extremists“, being forbidden from the science academy, gaining and then loosing a family on the Shenzhou by her own hand, being discarded by Stargleet, falling in love with a Klingon sleeper agent, betrayal from Lorca, learning that her parents didn’t die because of her, that her mom is still alive but can’t be with her, working through trauma with Spock, having to let go of everything she knows to go to the future) but Sonequa Martin-Green seems to have no direction in playing the character and the writers are terrified to show her in a position of weakness and struggling to work through things. And the whole Red Angel mystery was clearly not thought through at all and rushed to a conclusion in order to take Disco out of the 23rd century full of continuity landmines that could (and did) go up nearly every step of the way. I still am hopeful for Picard and Disco, but I think the first season did a better job getting the Trek message across (final episode: Klingons are just people). My most disappointing aspect of Disco was Control - they could have given him some motivation, some viewpoint to make him at least a little bit intriguing - even Ultron had a motive.
The sphere data has 100,000 years of data on A.I. from thousands of cultures the show mentions this several times. The A.I. data was theorized to evolve control or something.
I think people people are trying to make the show something it's not. In my humble opinion, Discovery is more about testing new technologies than exploring the universe. People got so caught up in what they wanted it to be and the stopped seeing the fun in new stories. They're aren't trying to pretend the Discovery or Michael never existed, only that it was destroyed in the battle. That way keeping the data, time suit, mirror universe, the network and everything else safe and secret. When it comes to to not continuing the spore drive. You have to think of what they went through to make it operational. Animal cruelty, illegal genetic mutation, poisoning the network and potentially ending the cycle of life in the universe. We've developed a super sonic commercial aircraft IRL called the Concord, but once the danger became clear. We abandoned the project. Just because we are capable of doing something doesn't mean we should. Yes, the show has issues, but what show doesn't?
So, fuck canon. Don’t try to understand the lore or what came before it. I mean after all some people like it and it’s not like an important part of fiction is consistently to established world building and rules. I mean why should we expect them to try hard and be creative and obey the established canon when writing? I mean they only want our time and money. Pretty lights are all we need and some cool scenes. 🙃🙈
My question from the finale was why did they have to go to the future at all once the AI was destroyed? Just keep Micheal and the Discovery in the present now that the threat is eliminated.
You misunderstand. Those engineers and lowly deck officers. They were just terminated... I mean... reassigned (yeah, that's it reassigned) to desk jobs.
I didn't understand why some kind of bomb couldn't have been transported over to the Discovery. The crew was able to port back over, and for some reason the ship didn't just space the crew. So wouldn't a bomb have been the next thought after the torpedoes didn't breach the shields?
Why do you need a gimp suit and a xmas decoration to time travel? Kirk stole a beat old bird of prey and pulled a handbrake turn around the sun. Hello 1986.
When I watched it, I thought that the person farthest from Spock, the one he should befriend, is McCoy, not Kirk. Kirk will usually choose the path of rationality. And we know from Amok Time that Spock does consider McCoy to be his friend.
The reviewer completely missed the point that the sphere data became its own form of AI that would have thwarted any attempt to destroy it. I think the reviewer is just one of those watchers who needs everything spelled out for them. Also, they didn't like the series in the first place and so everything is "ridiculous" n their eyes. Please go back and watch the original series and try to tell me that all things are explained. By nature, Sci-fi expects its fans to fill in gaps and use their imaginations beyond the story being told. This review is incapable of that and getting beyond his own biases about the series, which improved overall. Compared the first season of TNG, Discovery was epic. I give the review a 3/10 and hope he can see that his own bias plays a big part in how he receives this series and its potential to grow as a Sci-fi.
They should have started the show in the far future, instead of a prequel. The explanation that everyone forgets Discovery, its crew and the advanced technology is pretty weak.
I have tried my damnedest to like Discovery, but it's just not good. I just hope it does not damage the rep of the actors, as there are some damn good ones on that show. When we were shown the Enterprise bridge, I finally felt like I was watching a proper Trek. Everything felt just right. We NEED more of that!
Spock just stood around doing nothing for 99% of the time. Michael cried and whispered a lot whilst being written as the most important character ever. ST has always been about team work not the few...
Literally everyone in the Federation already knows who Michael Burnham is. She's infamous. She was Starfleet's first mutineer and the woman who countless billions of people across multiple worlds blame for starting the Klingon war, costing the lives of millions.
I don't think Spock pretending not to remember her is going to do the trick.
Shhhh look at those flashing red lights over there!!!
Honestly! I was like how do you "forget" all of that?!? Never mention her name again. It's all over Starfleet databases! Why didn't they just start the show in the far flung future to begin with? Would have made more sense.
@@PaulThompsonPaulyWog \i guess they have unexpalin MIB style mind wiping devices. idk this show sucks
Problem I see, Star Trek Lore and History suggest that James T. Kirk, for example, is well remembered, and legendary, despite that he was breaking every Star Fleet rule that ever existed, in fact many more were made because of him. I find it hard to believe anyone could simply "Forget" technology and what happened, in Discovery. One item I liked about newer movies, they went into facts that Star Fleet was attempting to start a war and preparing for it. I find it hard to believe, Star Fleet themselves, wouldn't be attempting to use that technology--even if secretly. Logically, it doesn't work...plot wise.
Not going to lie, totally spaced on that one. You are so right.
Those damn fools. Obviously they don't know, the easiest way to defeat Section 31 is to delete System 32.
Lol amazing
Fucking hell!... Well said, bro!
Huzzah!
Fuck yes!!!
OMG ... that was gr8 ... lmao
You have a lot of CGI budget if you get cheap writers
@@GeneralG1810 orange men are even worse
@Tyrone Ward Pfft I'd take orange man over Killary any day, liberal wankers just hate him because he doesn't virtue signal like every other bullshit artist on the hill, and people have gotten sick and tired of virtue signalling wankers who only care about minorities and forget the majority
AussieBlokeGordo indeed.
Yeah, this is big brain time.
Until your review, I hadn't yet seen Burnham striking the superhero pose, and when you showed it, I rolled my eyes *so* hard.
Thank you for your sacrifice my friend!
On a side note.. Intersectionality is cultural poison.
Starfleet to Janeway: yeah sorry you're stuck on the other side of the galaxy, but we absolutely positively don't have anyway to help rescue you or your crew, honest.
Then Janeway should have been quoting Dark Helmet "I knew it I'm surrounded by @$$holes."
They really didn't though because the only way Stamets could make the drive work was through Tardigrade DNA which they got from an actual tardigrade. No tardigrade, no dna, no genetic manipulation, no spore drive basically.
The spore drive is just a terrible story element all around. It's a deus ex machina that only serves to weaken the plot of any story it's used in. Having limits that characters have to over come in believable ways is how good storytelling is done. And if a writer wants to bring back the spore drive in a future series then a tardigrade or alien species that is very similar to a tardigrade will magically appear.
Species 8472 killed all tardigrades and mushroom network when Borg invaded their space
@@darrengaroutte7744 In theory the spore drive is an interesting idea but the show really ties itself into knots to explain why only Discovery has it and why such an advanced warp drive has never been mentioned or used again in any of the other Star Trek series. I know a lot of younger fans like Discovery but the writing is honestly kind of bad and the show tries to cover it up with heavy use of cgi (and personally I feel the visual and lighting choices the show has make the cgi not look very good and blurs a lot of background details together).
What can you expect when the showrunner proudly admitted he never saw Star Trek
That should've been a huge red flag right there. In a perfect world, saying something like that should get you fired and replaced. But in our world, nothing happens and he's basically cheered on by the brainwashed idiots.
Like the people who make DC movies and shows
They're proud of never seeing the source material?
Alex Kerr Yep, that’s unfortunately where we’re at right now.
I can't find anything about it, can you tell me who said this and where i can get the info?
So we need a movie where Michael, Captain Marvel and Rey fight one another.
That is a hilarious stroke of genius!
Sorry David that will never happen. In SJW anything, women always like each other, never get on each other's nerves since they're perfect, and usually turn out to be lesbians.
@@charlescaine6022 So would it start as a fight and end up as a make-out session, or some other sort of SJW orgy?
@@All2Meme the three of them would stand around saying, "You go girl", until Michael and Rey start kissing. Michael and Rey would then get it on, leaving Captain Marvel on the outs, because even other Mary Sues don't really like her.
@@charlescaine6022 It would probably be the highest-rated R-rated movie since the first Deadpool movie. XD
despite all the love stories, Orville is still vastly better
Next Generation had a heck of a lot of love stories too :)
@@mikeonthecomputer I've been noticing a connecting theme though with the love stories this season, especially after seeing Isaac and doctor finn. A lot of these stories are one-sided with characters falling for fantasies.
Orville latest episode seems very sjw.
Nothing wrong with love stories, or has the millennial generation not discovered romance yet?
@@pkneebo Nah, you can have social commentary without being SJW. If it was SJW the critics would love it, but they don't
Captain Pike was only good thing about this show. Also, those white medical uniforms on the Discovery look soooo good.
I disagree, the show did have some good characters in it. Lorca was a pretty awesome character throughout season 1 and Saru is probably the best new alien addition to the franchise in 20 years. To bad the show still sucks though.
It's the ultimate anti-trek, all glitter no substance. I'd rather rewatch TNG or watch Orville. Thank you, Dave, for consuming this heaping pile of self-serving propaganda so that I can retain the little sanity I have left.
Well I get your criticism but I don't think u paid attention to what was going on throughout the season. Even though Leland was defeated by Georgoiu the threat remained very much real as Leland was just a vessel that Control was inhabiting. Don't forget the fact Control was able to take over all of the Section 31 systems including controls of all the ships. Don't forget that Control took over/reanimated a body of Michael's friend from Shenzou. Control was an AI system that had to loose it's purpose and that purpose was to posses the SPhere Data in order to become self concious. Control wanted to eradicate all intelligent life in the universe and to do so It needed to understand everything( all processes in the universe and the history of all spiecies. After all the sphere was gathering data for centuries and contained the information about all life forms known to it). I agree that they turned Michael into too much of a hero. But the story made sense. Story on Terralisium said that Red Angel gathered all the people it could in the church and simply held onto the church while being sucked into the past again thus transporting the church and all inside onto Terralisium. They have built the town themselves while living there. Thing about the merged religions is in my opinion a bit too far fetched too because they would simply need representatives of all religions to create one that truly connects all of them. I doubt they had people of all beliefs in that church at the time. I too agree that it was stupid idea to ditch all that technology after all it wasn't all bad it was just the Discovery itself that had the sphere data not the spore drive technology. I partially agree with you and disagree at the same time as I did enjoy the show despite its flaws.
The best bit was protecting against photon torpedoes by shutting the door. Who knew?
Peter D
A very robust door indeed.
Even better when you see Enterprise flying later in the episode with a massive chunk from the front gone.
@@oxaile4021
I liked The Admiral (surprisingly ok for her rank) and wish they could have given her a less stupid death.
@@alanpennie8013 I liked many of STDs characters and their own storylines.
It was the main story and it's plotholes that ruined it for me.
@@oxaile4021
Agreed
The Magicians spent the last 15 minutes of their season finale' saying goodbye to a character and they had me in tears. STD spent a entire episode saying goodbye to Michael and I was meh.
Quentin, even in the Underworld, questioned his motives- whether they were for his own desires or doing it to save everyone. Michael seems like a new GI Joe character in the wrong franchise.
Plot twist: Michael is Q.
That would make more sense than what actually happened...
We will probably find out that she is the first Q who shows all the others how to ascend into the continuum.
Michael destroys the Q continuum in season 3
Mary Q
@@00Klingon don't give them ideas!!!!!
The sphere data only assumes control over discovery when something threatens its existence. It's intelegent A.I. If they kept hitting it with torpedoes it would eventually either return fire or jump into warp. It lets them return and control the ship so because these actions are not a direct threat to the data. But they can't fly it into star because the sphere data will see what they're doing and prevent it. They can't eject the computer core (if that is even possible) because the sphere data will see what they're doing and prevent it. The only way to get the data out of Controls grasp is an option that does not involve trying to distroy it.
I mean... really... I was so happy at the thought of the discovery and its crew being gone forever.... great last five minutes!
Discovery's kiss-off to the three TOS characters is to have them commit perjury, a serious felony crime. So now Captain Pike, Number One, and Spock are criminals, and it wasn't even necessary because the Discovery and the spore drive and Number One do not need to be hidden.
Add them to the list of Discovery characters who should be in prison:
Michael Burnham, mutineer and war-starter;
Empress Georgiou, genocidal maniac, etc;
Ash/Voq, murderer;
Lorca, traitor, etc;
Harry Mudd, mass murderer, serial killer, traitor, etc;
Tilly (yes, Tilly), traitor;
L'Rell, torturer and rapist;
Admiral Cornwell, genocide supporter, sadistic thug;
and every person who condoned the treatment of the tardigrade is an animal torturer.
Star Trek Discovery has no sense of right and wrong.
To be fair, I will play the devil's advocate here (or at least offer my own thoughts) in regards to your list of characters who should be in prison.
Michael Burnham was formally pardoned of her crimes, if I recall correctly. We may not like it that she essentially gets away with starting a war that cost millions, if not billions, of lives (though the Klingons were spoiling for a fight, anyway), but that's the way pardons work. Personally, I find her insufferable and arrogant, and the only reason she's constantly right all the time about pretty much everything is the magic of Plot Armor. However, given the number of times she interrupts and contradicts Pike, I'd throw her in the brig for near-constant insubordination.
Empress Georgiou is indeed a genocidal, sentient-eating xenophobic dictator - in the Mirror Universe. Arguably, the prime universe's Federation has no grounds to imprison her until she commits a crime within their jurisdiction. (Michael should probably have just left her to die in the Mirror Universe.) That said, fairly unique circumstances, and Discovery does have computer data backing up the fact that Georgiou is a complete psycho who should NOT be left running free.
Tyler/Voq is an unusual case. I do not hold him responsible for the death of Hugh Culber. The Tyler personality was completely ignorant of what Voq was doing, and it's Tyler who's now the dominant personality. He does have Voq's memories, but it's clearly Tyler in ascendance. Watch him with L'rell, when he confesses that a romantic touch from her feels like a violation now. But while I don't hold him legally responsible for what he did before to Culber, I really think he should be in a psychiatric hospital or at least under a doctor's care, rather than left unattended. And I certainly wouldn't put him in charge of an important and largely unsupervised intelligence apparatus.
Lorca is dead. By the time they knew he was a Mirror Universe imposter, it was far too late to do something like throw him in jail. And, again, he's dead now and that's that.
Harry Mudd definitely should be in prison. Forever.
Calling Tilly a traitor seems a bit extreme, but there's definitely place for disciplinary action. She neglected to report an intruder on board the ship, for one.
L'Rell is the chancellor of the Klingon High Council and is thus beyond the reach of Federation justice at the moment. But if you mean that she should've been imprisoned permanently when Starfleet had her in their custody, I'll run with that. It's not clear that she ever actually raped Tyler, and it's even implied that his memories of such encounters with her are actual residual memories of a genuine romantic relationship between her and Voq. When Tyler expresses discomfort with her close touch in Season 2, she immediately jerks her hand away. As for torture, well, yes, she definitely did that. And the original Ash Tyler is definitely dead, having provided his body parts, memory, and identity to craft Voq's undercover persona. And that is a crime that everyone - including the current Tyler (for some reason) - seems to forget these days.
Admiral Cornwell is dead and beyond human justice. Frankly, I think her problem is more outright stupidity and obliviousness than being outright evil. And that, really, was the fault of the way she was written. Come on, guys, she was a headshrinker before she was an admiral! Yet she buys all pretty much everything both Mirror Lorca and Emperor Georgiou (plus Section 31) say hook, line, and sinker! Were I her boss, I'd see her cashiered from Starfleet for being a total idiot.
Greetings, Evenmoor. Thank you for your intelligent and balanced reply to my comment. I enjoy thought-provoking television, like TOS, and I enjoy thought-provoking comments just as much. In fact, your reply caused me to re-examine my comment very carefully.
Although I still believe that the real point of my comment is valid, I could certainly have worded it better. For example, I could have said this: the producers and writers of Discovery have created a universe in which the majority of the main characters are not being properly punished for their crimes; this runs contrary to the optimism of Gene Roddenberry, who believed that we could, and WOULD, make the world a better (and safer) place; and it causes concern that the creative people behind Discovery are unaware that misdeeds should be punished for the sake of justice and fairness. That is a statement that I am prepared to defend.
Having said that, it seems to me that we are more in agreement than disagreement. For example, I agree that: Michael Burnham should be thrown in the brig for recurring insubordination; "Georgiou is a complete psycho who should NOT be left running free"; Tyler should be in a psychiatric hospital or at least under a doctor's care; Harry Mudd should be in prison forever; Tilly should face disciplinary action; L'Rell "should've been imprisoned permanently when Starfleet had her in their custody"; and, Cornwell should be dismissed from Starfleet. [I sincerely hope that I have not mis-represented any of your comments, nor taken them out of context - - please correct me if I have.]
This is the kind of discussion that I enjoy. Let me close this comment with that part of the old Irish blessing that Kirk referred to in The Search for Spock: "May the wind be at our backs".
@ Richard WW . Hello, Richard. You have expressed some interesting ideas.
However, according to Memory Alpha:
"... Pike, Number One, Spock, and Tyler are debriefed by Starfleet Command ..."
and "The Starfleet interviewers ..."
and "... Pike replies that she went above and beyond before her death, and blames Section 31 for the whole catastrophe. Starfleet Command agrees, promising to reform Section 31 ...".
[Those excerpts are from the Memory Alpha article on "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"] The interviewer wore a Starfleet uniform, and a Starfleet badge (visible when he says, "I am eager to hear ..."). On the whole, I think the interview was done by Starfleet proper, though it is not absolutely certain.
Even if there is, as you say, "... the possibility that they will tell Starfleet the 'real' story but just didn't want to tip-off this interviewer ...", I would find the writers and producers guilty of a very disturbing fault: ending the season with the clear impression that Pike, Number One, Spock (and Ash) are perjurers. That is not something that should be left hanging until Season Three. Honestly, I don't believe they even thought about it; it was just their attempt to bring Discovery back into line with canon by making it all confidential.
Live long and prosper.
I agree with everything you said. It's funny because eden was my favourite episode, it felt the most like classic trek but the story of how the colony got there makes no sense (now that we have seen the whole season)
>Why the spore drive should be abandoned
It is maybe the only thing that they did explain. It was an ecological disaster that rips through mushroom network and hurting living and sentient beings inside it.
I agree with you, a series with Captain Pike on that Enterprise set could be awesome - with good writing.
Already posted this under a couple videos, with no answears so far.
- all 7 signals show up at the same time, but Michael still has to create the last 2 remaining ones at the end, ... ?????
- She can only do one jump with the time crystal, she cant come back, .... jumps like 5 times to the past and then 950 years to the future, ... and then back again to create the last signal????
- Control is dead, they still travel to the future, ... WHY???
- If the time travel suit is that powerful and easy to construct, why dont just go back and stop the creation of control entirely????
Season 2 makes ZERO sense if you think about the entire plot for a minute, ... ZERO!
-The seven signals each show up twice. One time all at once, and then each again one more time.
-She doesn't travel back to send the final signal; she sends it through the wormhole.
-Control-in-Leland is dead; they don't know whether or not there's still a version of it out there.
-It isn't easy to construct. It requires a time crystal, which needs to be powered. They prioritize getting the Sphere data away from Control; going back to stop it from being created isn't guaranteed to succeed, and interfering with the established timeline could just as easily create new problems.
It's a time travel plot, so of course it doesn't make perfect sense, but it's hardly as bad as you make it out to be.
@@lDanielHolm Ok, ok, makes atleast a tiny bit more sense now, thank you.
But the timetravel suit thingy is still kinda, ... easy to make, considering theres like hundreds, if not thousand growing on a planet that seems to not be protected that great! Plus the suit itseld was constructed pretty quick, in a middle of a fight.
Yeah, another indication that Season 2 had at least two and possibly even three phases of writing that had nothing to do with each other and minimal cross-referencing by the staff writers.
@@lDanielHolm We can't forget the fact that Leland was just one of the tools Control was using there was defo more because Michael came across one when she discovered that ONE alive crew member from one of the ships control took over. He was reanimated just like leland so to me there was mmore of them than just Leland himself. Control was in all of the Section 31 ships.
To be honest, I really didn't like the guy playing Spock - he was just another Vulcan, never convince as Spock to me.
Although being (most of the time) without the original Spock's (Leonard Nimoy) charisma. He played a very difficult role. After captain Pike. He was my second favorite actor. Played a very believable Spock in all the scenes. Except when he showed his "feelings" for Burnam.
@Craig X your opinion. Not mine. 😉
absolutly. Why not introducing a new Vulcan at all? Recognizing old Star Trek didnt seem to be important, or why have they altered the Klingons so badly? Omg...im so disappointed by all of this crap.
@@rucaxp He was not a good Vulcan,he was poorly written,Spock is there to be different, not a human that looks different.
@Zerebrat Eightyseven Yes, they found out that it was a bad idea to alter the species every person on earth with a TV, from the russian grand-ma to the chilene coalminer, recognize at first glance and finally have showed one no-name Klingon in the last episode after two season correctly. Congratulation Kurtzman!
What I just can’t understand is what people see in this show, all I see on social media is 5 stars and how “brilliant” STD is. Have we really fallen so far?
Unfortunately, we are still falling and the bottom is miles away.
For people that doesn't have a relationship with the franchise, STD is actually a good series, if you watch thinking that is a werever scifi series is fun and have some cool characters, such as Mr Saru, Phillipa Georgio, Tilly and Linus.
@@israeldiaz2392 It's not even a good stand alone show. It does look great. Scenes are often shot well, especially action sequences. However, the writing is horrid. It can't even maintain consistency within its own universe and often falters within episodes. The show is a black hole where logic and intelligence go to die.
Never met a "brilliant" STD in my life and never will!
Because people who use social media are idiots and mindless sheep who follow the rest of the mindless sheep herd.
My thoughts are thank God this trash is over and I hope we never EVER see a third season.
@Total Wafflez Noooooooooooo....! 😱
Pretty sure it was already announced they had picked it up for a third season.
If all access fails why not put it on tv
Maintenance Renegade Ugh, kill me now.
You might be referring to the orville
Steve Shives will not be happy about this review.
He's still around?? Huh....
I like his videos but my god is he annoying
@@AsianTheDomination I actually really like him.
The more I see and hear about STD, the more outraged I become at how vile and disgusting it is. They've destroyed Roddenberry's wholesome family show by turning it into a dark, sinister "horror film" like production aimed at a totally different audience. And not content on that, it seems now that they've actually brought Pike, Spock and Kirk into their show, to trample on these characters! This is just too much. This TV show is EVIL.
I feel so strongly about this. They should not be ALLOWED to destroy a franchise like this. A beloved franchise like Star Trek should be legally "protected" by the law, so that people who make new series must continue the spirit of the original franchise, instead of turning into a depraved sick celebration of filth and darkness.
The 2 part finale was brilliant! I loved it and I love that the Star Trek universe can finally expand with the split off of Discovery. It is greatly needed for fans that want to have Star Trek for years to come!
A Star Trek show featuring the adventures of Captain Pike, Number One and Mister Spock aboard the Enterprise? That's what Gene Roddenberry wanted in the first place. We've come full circle.
This just makes Star Trek: Enterprise more palatable.
If I want this many plot holes, I'll just have a Swiss cheese thank you veeeerrrrry much!
Compared to Discovery, Star trek: Enterprise is a masterpiece!
Jamie Cameron-Brown
When I was younger and still a kid I watched STE and loved it, it was a trek show and despite the weirdness was strong.
STD was not Trek nor strong
@@tyvernoverlord5363 Enterprise had better established actors though, they knew how to do parts. If anything, that was a saving grace for Enterprise. These actors in Discovery...well.
@@jamiecameron-brown4748 ...and Voyager!
If you didn't like Enterprises I dare say you didn't watch it all, yes it started out slow but once it got going it was a fantastic addition to the franchise.
Man, you nailed it... But you forgot to mention how the Enterprise apparently had more fighters and drones than an aircraft carrier of nearly the same size!
Watch Anti-trekker's reactions to this whole episode and his breakdown of how 'original' it all is. He called them out on every POS plot point they ripped from other properties. It truly was glorious.
The Sphere data's significance was explained in previous episodes. Burnham's mother determined that the Sphere (Which was some V'Ger like space probe) contained data that in the original timeline was acquired by Control and the AI was able to use the data to achieve true sentience and begin purging all organic life in the galaxy.
They tried to delete the data but it put up firewalls in the computer to prevent them from doing so leaving the destruction of Discovery as the only option. The issue is this information was not covered in the recap at the start of the episode so you had to watch 4 other episodes to learn that the sphere data, that's the flaw with a series designed for binge watching instead of being episodic.
Who’s more powerful? Burnham, Rey, or Captain Marvel.
All three. They're the same person.
Good one!@@All2Meme
was a trick question?
Amen Dave, what you said!
As for why Control wanted the sphere data, that was at least explained in an earlier episode. Supposedly the data included information that would allow Control to "become a fully-realized AI". From what I saw, I didn't know what the fuck they were talking about, since Control seemed pretty goddamned "fully-realized" as an AI to me.
I vow NEVER to speak of STD ever again myself - Great idea "SPOCK".
said this in another video... this show just needs the mystery science theater 3000 treatment and maybe, just maybe it will be tolerable.
One way to do this is like a react video to avoid being sued for copyright. Audience would have to cue up both videos and sync their timestamps in order to make this work in a Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Rainbow sort of way....
I hate that show but this is pretty much what you might be looking for:
th-cam.com/channels/eCJB88u93eq91U0rlJsW-A.html
I've given up watching all videos concerning Star Trek Discovery, as I have my own ideas concerning this series and they don't seem to jive with the way most people think. And this guy seems to like to complain for the sake of doing so.
I had many issues with the first season, but almost, none with season two. I do hope there will be a season three.
Still longing to see a series focused on the Vulcan Species, Culture and Home World, and also, on Star Fleet Academy and the Federation of Planets, and maybe, just maybe, the more VISIONARY, of Trek Enthusiast will do that one day.
My Trek Best. Out.
I agree. I think a lot of it has to do with Sonequa as the lead, to be honest. People are mad about plot points in a way that is....reaching. This show is great.
Not sure if this is where I should be asking, but am looking forward to your continued dissection in the autopsy that is Star Trek Discovery, no surprise you'll hate it but at least some of us could get good content from you if you did decide to keep going reviewing it, up to you I guess
in this episode, Dave jumps on the trek-hating train and... well, echoes other trek haters and sells it as his own thoughts. also, "i watched it, so you don't have to"... Ginger Dave is the ultimate authoratttaaa!!! if Dave says, it's no good, don't you dare watch it , puny humans. but do donate, puny humans.
So glad to see this, was wondering if I was the only one rolling my eyes this entire season. Was really hoping it would improve at some point but seemed to really peak at the end.
1. It is explained in previous episodes as to why control wants the sphere data, and what will happen if Control gets it.
2. Anyone can find similarities to anything created today. unfortunately we are over saturated with literature and movies.
for a star trek series however it is something that has never happened in any other series therefore makes for entertaining story
3. The real life Paul Stamets actually theorizes the existence of a galactic mycelium network that could possibly do just as discovery did.
4. I am a life long fan of all the star trek series and the one thing they all have in common is the tend to reflect the times we live in. and with the increased level of
access to information and misdirection from our governments, media and yes even the world of movie and tv this series does so very well.
The season finally was epic and yes i do see similarities but forced or unoriginal would not be what i would use. perhaps expected, regular or standardize hero play would best describe because lets face it there hasnt been much originality in anything recently produced.... i personally fucking love the discovery series, and i have high hopes for the Picard series. #Startrek>starwars #fightme
Huge continuity problem now - Wouldn't Starfleet take the secrecy off of the spore drive to save Voyager and have her travel back home in a blink? Wouldn't that also be one major advantage over the Borg?
Don't forget that there were two ships at one time with spore drives. Are all of those people just going to keep silent?
Will the Klingons who witnessed the spore drive in action obey the Federation's hush rule? Doubtful.
Once again Dave-- your analysis is intelligent and right on the money. Love your videos!
Regarding the whole Terralysium thing, it was my understanding that just the church and the people inside of it were transported, not the whole town. Since it’d been there for quite a while the town and number of occupants grew a little.
Still doesn’t give the writing a pass though, just helping out.
Ty for watching that Abomination of dood dood show. Every day Im glad i did see that free 1st episode. Dam i wish i could hang out with u, ur just so refreshing.
I found the director's abuse of dutch angles in the first season absolutely nauseating.
Yep, it was kinda like he went to the Abrams School of Shit Directing.
Since I never the last two Terminator films, I never got the Leland/John Connor ref o.0 However, they did borrow enough from Trek Beyond and Ender's Game during the battle. As well, when Spock talks about forgetting everything, and people will be charged with treason etc - my brain went to The Simpsons' "The Principal and the Pauper" (had to Google the ep name) but I knew the story.. which has one of my fave lines, "But I'm a war hero" "And we salute you" before shipping Real Skinner out of town o.0 And yes, with Klutzman and the gang still in charge, I don't expect Trek to improve in the coming years... Thanks for sharing, Dave!!
Good commentary. And..."may the road rise up to meet ye."
Lucky Starfleet never runs into a situation where Starfleet is desperately seeking someway to travel across the galaxy really fast....oh wait.
Agreed 💯. The best part of the entire 1st two series was the last few minutes with Pike back at the helm with Spock on the Enterprise.
The most star trek way to deal with the issue of the data trying to preserve itself would be to communicate with it. Its clearly intelligent given how its able to defend itself and perceive and understand technology. How else would it know the ship it is in is being shot?
The space scenes in the Orville finale were done much better!
Not that I don't mostly agree with your views on the episodes (or the show) the scene where Discovery protects itself from them firing on it to destroy it didn't actually happen - Michael was still experiencing visions from her experience with the time stone, and she m fire on discovery which triggered the shields just BEFORE they actually did it - which in turn meant the future would be set that they couldn't get back on board -so she shouted to them to not fire, that it wouldn't work, and stopped them, therefore Discovery's shields didn't get triggered in response, and they were able to beam back aboard.
Oh yeah and it was ridiculous how the ba'uul ships(piloted by kelpians) just show up unexpectedly at the end to help out. Saru's sister goes from knowing nothing about what's out there to being a fighter pilot. The baa'ul were actually pretty creepy/scary. I wish they would have made that episode a two-parter.
I really enjoyed the very end... but my Hope of STD becoming about the Enteprise discovering the vast reaches of space.... well... l found out it was renewed with the old cast...😉
my words...completly my words! Agree on all points
So it's been a long time since I saw the original original series pilot with Pike or the two parter with Kirk where we saw what became of him, but my question from the the time we saw the crew of the enterprise, what happened to the red head from those episodes? It felt like she was the only character from that story who didn't get to play a part in this series.
i see spock's dollar shave club sponsorship finally came through
I loved your breakdown on this ... Spot on 👍
this reminds me of the end of moffat's run on doctor who where he turned his original character clara into the singularly most important character in the show's canon. to hell with 50 years of other characters and stories, mine supersede all of them dang it.
To be fair, outside of Martha and Mickey, EVERY New Who companion got that:
Rose - Bad Wolf
Jack - Time-Wimey Immmortality, possibly The Face of Boe
Donna - Doctor Donna
Amy - The Girl Who Waited (imagined the entire universe back into existence)
Rory - The Last Centurian
Carl Rood Still doesn’t top Mary Sue Clara. The doctor is all those instance was a self made man. Clara it turns out comforted him when he was child, gave him the trades, and saves him throughout his timeline. She made him the doctor and if she hadn’t none of those others things would have happened. The docto-Donna, Bad wolf.
I was ready to tell you to lighten up, but you made some great points.
They explained why they need the sphere data... control wants to become sentient...and he needs the data to do that, there was a exposition on it in a earlier episode..sorry you missed that part..
You know that other star trek series set over 100 years later which involved a vessel being thrown into the gamma quadrant which took 7 years to get home... If only they had that old spore drive tech that could teleport instantly anywhere in the galaxy :) So much for star trek canon.
Thanks for letting me know I made a good decision to not watch the series to date!
In response to two of your points; Whilst I agree the existential threat of A.I. is not a new plot element in the Sci-fi genre, however, an awareness of the leaps in A.I. technology, quantum computing and the Transhumanism movement renews the relevance of the subject to today's audience. My second point is in response to you proffering the destruction of the Discovery by flying it into a star etc. as a better resolution to the 'control getting the sphere data' issue. With the sphere data preventing the destruction of the Discovery, how exactly would that have worked? The time travel option would not destroy the data, merely remove it from the reach of control.
Well keep in mind if you've got access to the ship you could just plant a bomb next to the computer core and blow it to hell from the inside. Or you know, just keep firing torpedos form the enterprise. Discovery's shields have limits to what they can deflect, it's not like the AI can somehow exceed the technical specs of the shield generators.
Biggest plot hole that hit me from the start... why didn't they just spore drive-jump their asses to the other side of the galaxy or something. Or jump randomly around, becoming nigh unpredictable as to where they were. Or jump straight to Earth and get into realtime contact with Starfleet. Leland's ships would have still been limited to warp drive...
Now, as a dumb barely-Star Trek romp, Season Two was, honestly, not that terrible -- compared to the first, at least. I don't how well the Pike character lines up with his TOS counterpart, but I generally found him to be the most charismatic character on the current show. Indeed, Pike was the most enjoyable aspect. And if it had to be a serialized series, I would have preferred the story arc follow him. Frankly, while it may or may not have been disrespectful to include such a historical character in this show, I think Season Two would have been far worse without him.
So Pike was alright by me.
So was Jet Reno, the sarcastic engineer the Discovery's crew evacuated from a crashed starship earlier in the season. I greatly enjoyed her wit, although, I couldn't help but roll my eyes when she became "just another gay character". It doesn't really matter to me that the actress is gay herself, but it just struck me that the show couldn't seem to bring on more than one "regular guy" character (besides Pike) and the constant obvious political messaging.
One area that gained a little approval was that Season Two attempted to bring the Klingons back in line with their classic pre-TOS/post-TOS appearance. Namely growing some bloody hair again. There was one Klingon on the bridge of the Chancellor's ship in, I believe, the final episode who appeared to be a reasonable modern interpretation of what we saw in shows like TNG, Voyager, Enterprise, etc. I don't know if it was a bit of fan service but it hit the right notes with me compared to their awful first season appearance.
And, of course, the most annoying element still remains to be Michael Burnham. And this isn't because of her sex or race or the character naming or any such rubbish. But, again, I couldn't help but roll my eyes at the show continuously hinting at her as the absolute be-all, end-all character. I remember Spock saying that Burnham (paraphrasing) "insists on taking responsibility for everything." No, I didn't get that vibe at all. This didn't feel like a burden for Burnham. Rather, it felt like sheer arrogance on her part in assuming that everything was about her. Her absolute confidence at one point that she was the Red Angel, for example, before we actually see her "become such" in the finale.
I don't know. I don't bloody know. My final conclusion is that Season Two *was* better than the first, by far, but it still absolutely fell short of anything original. No idea if there will be a Season Three. If there is, I'll probably still watch it for the hell of it -- that, and to form my own opinions rather than relying on others to tell me how to think about it. Again, it's not a *terrible* dumb space romp if you can look past the political messaging and relative unoriginality.
I'll even give it some big credit on excellent costume design and visuals.
5/10 in terms of Star Trek as a series.
6/10 in terms of plot originality.
9/10 in terms of visual effects.
7/10 in terms of general enjoyability if we look at it as a stand-alone television series.
Considering how Micky Spook was the most famous person in the Federation for both starting the war and ending it and being Star Fleet's first mutineer, I can't buy them being able to bury her existence.
If they were trying to suggest Kirk in Burnham's advice, it shows the writers don't get TOS, only thesKelvin-verse. Kirk is NOT the furthest person from Spock. MCCOY IS!!! That's the the whole point of the trio. Spock is logic, McCoy is emotion, and Kirk is the MIDDLE. It's why he relies on both of them for advice.
If you look at the backstory tidbits TOS gave us about Kirk, his more reckless attributes came later. He described himself as "grim" during his Academy days. Gary Mitchell described him as a "walking pile of books" in his younger days. As an ensign, he reported an error committed by his friend, Ben Finney. This was a by the book young man.
I suspect it was his failure against the cloud creature where he lost his captain and many fellow crew members that led to Kirk being the guy who wants to be front and center when facing danger.
Things I liked about season 2: Great Special Effects, Story is at least a bit better than season 1.
Things I hated about season 2: No sense of urgency. There were so many scenes where everything was going to hell but they somehow have time to have a heart to heart conversation. I also notice they sometimes forget the basics like you CANNOT use the transporter when the ship has it's shields up and yet they do.
Thank you for enduring that show so I didn't have to. You were right about Picard...what a disaster
I don’t care that the writing could be better I love the show. I’ve watched every episode multiple times and will again, I’ve also been a fan of Star Trek since the next generation
AGREED!
....
ANOTHER WELL DONE VIDEO, WITH A SPOT-ON ANALYSIS OF DISCOVERIES CRAP!
It's so refreshing to know there are others who acknowledge that this doesn't make the mark. Pike and Spock I didn't mind...but they're gone now.
Sigh
At least when we had largely male protagonist they usually had floors, suffered failure & had to transform. The feminist porn we are feed shows that wamen view themselves as perfect in every way with the only limitations & floors been external barriers created & imposed on them by men.
Nice rant, I agree with you this whole show was forced upon us, and they even tried fixing the klingons in the end, which still looked ridiculous, the updated D7 cruisers looked cool though...
Dave Cullen, Thank you, thank you, thank you!! Your analysis is spot on! Those last two episodes were painful. It was like the whole team of writers pounding a square peg into a round hole.
They just kept pounding until it was in and then said, see we told you it would fit.
Remember, Kurtzman did come up with this spore drive stuff. I think discovery going to the future is his way of starting over. I'm hopeful for the new show runners for season 3 and the timeframe they will be set in.
Thanks Dave.
Draaaaawn out is an understatement.
Somehow, an anti-banana ray is more plausible. We need not fear the banana.
I don’t hate DSC, I think it could be so much better with different writers. Michael Burnham in concept is a Great character and I never felt she was deified, she is actually portrayed as a psychologically damaged woman, who is working through all the traumas in her life (loosing her parents to Klingons, carrying the guilt for that, being raised by a Vulcan father, assassination attempts by „logic extremists“, being forbidden from the science academy, gaining and then loosing a family on the Shenzhou by her own hand, being discarded by Stargleet, falling in love with a Klingon sleeper agent, betrayal from Lorca, learning that her parents didn’t die because of her, that her mom is still alive but can’t be with her, working through trauma with Spock, having to let go of everything she knows to go to the future) but Sonequa Martin-Green seems to have no direction in playing the character and the writers are terrified to show her in a position of weakness and struggling to work through things.
And the whole Red Angel mystery was clearly not thought through at all and rushed to a conclusion in order to take Disco out of the 23rd century full of continuity landmines that could (and did) go up nearly every step of the way.
I still am hopeful for Picard and Disco, but I think the first season did a better job getting the Trek message across (final episode: Klingons are just people).
My most disappointing aspect of Disco was Control - they could have given him some motivation, some viewpoint to make him at least a little bit intriguing - even Ultron had a motive.
Managed to finish the first season couldn't bring myself to suffer through season 2 still cracks me up everytime they say Michaels name
The sphere data has 100,000 years of data on A.I. from thousands of cultures the show mentions this several times. The A.I. data was theorized to evolve control or something.
Take one for the team thanks
I think people people are trying to make the show something it's not. In my humble opinion, Discovery is more about testing new technologies than exploring the universe. People got so caught up in what they wanted it to be and the stopped seeing the fun in new stories.
They're aren't trying to pretend the Discovery or Michael never existed, only that it was destroyed in the battle. That way keeping the data, time suit, mirror universe, the network and everything else safe and secret.
When it comes to to not continuing the spore drive. You have to think of what they went through to make it operational. Animal cruelty, illegal genetic mutation, poisoning the network and potentially ending the cycle of life in the universe. We've developed a super sonic commercial aircraft IRL called the Concord, but once the danger became clear. We abandoned the project. Just because we are capable of doing something doesn't mean we should.
Yes, the show has issues, but what show doesn't?
So, fuck canon. Don’t try to understand the lore or what came before it. I mean after all some people like it and it’s not like an important part of fiction is consistently to established world building and rules. I mean why should we expect them to try hard and be creative and obey the established canon when writing? I mean they only want our time and money. Pretty lights are all we need and some cool scenes. 🙃🙈
My question from the finale was why did they have to go to the future at all once the AI was destroyed? Just keep Micheal and the Discovery in the present now that the threat is eliminated.
You misunderstand. Those engineers and lowly deck officers. They were just terminated... I mean... reassigned (yeah, that's it reassigned) to desk jobs.
I didn't understand why some kind of bomb couldn't have been transported over to the Discovery. The crew was able to port back over, and for some reason the ship didn't just space the crew. So wouldn't a bomb have been the next thought after the torpedoes didn't breach the shields?
Same reasons why I don't have much hope for new Trek series as well.
3:05: "They have effectively deified her. She's like a Messianic figure at this point."
They want us to just forget about that little unimportant MUTINY thing.
They want us to just forget about that little unimportant WAR she started, that caused the death of thousands, maybe millions.
She does not seem to have any remorse for her horrific misdeeds. She does not seem to be sorry. To the contrary, she seems cocky at all times.
Some Messiah. :(
Yup! I was like "Captain Pike! Take us with you! Don't leave us with these people!"
Why do you need a gimp suit and a xmas decoration to time travel? Kirk stole a beat old bird of prey and pulled a handbrake turn around the sun. Hello 1986.
When I watched it, I thought that the person farthest from Spock, the one he should befriend, is McCoy, not Kirk. Kirk will usually choose the path of rationality. And we know from Amok Time that Spock does consider McCoy to be his friend.
The reviewer completely missed the point that the sphere data became its own form of AI that would have thwarted any attempt to destroy it. I think the reviewer is just one of those watchers who needs everything spelled out for them. Also, they didn't like the series in the first place and so everything is "ridiculous" n their eyes. Please go back and watch the original series and try to tell me that all things are explained. By nature, Sci-fi expects its fans to fill in gaps and use their imaginations beyond the story being told. This review is incapable of that and getting beyond his own biases about the series, which improved overall. Compared the first season of TNG, Discovery was epic.
I give the review a 3/10 and hope he can see that his own bias plays a big part in how he receives this series and its potential to grow as a Sci-fi.
@DevMag 52 thanks for your opinion. I'm sure it matters a lot to you.
@DevMag 52 You seem to be enjoying it.
@DevMag 52 Typical troll response when someone doesn't fall in line with their views.
They should have started the show in the far future, instead of a prequel. The explanation that everyone forgets Discovery, its crew and the advanced technology is pretty weak.
I have tried my damnedest to like Discovery, but it's just not good. I just hope it does not damage the rep of the actors, as there are some damn good ones on that show.
When we were shown the Enterprise bridge, I finally felt like I was watching a proper Trek. Everything felt just right. We NEED more of that!
Pretty perfect summary.
Spock just stood around doing nothing for 99% of the time. Michael cried and whispered a lot whilst being written as the most important character ever. ST has always been about team work not the few...