Thats a pretty cool idea. I bet you could design a tyrant to go toe to toe with even doom horrors. Axe of hate x2 + boots of quickness + stacking defense could probably do it. Cool idea to make the SC start horror marked.
Your bane lord vs. Tyrant test is essentially a "quick face rush". I believe the Tyrant didn't have chance to swing even once against the Bane Lord in both test runs. I know it would NOT be a realistic situation, but if we allow a "FAIR" fight between the Bane Lord and the Tyrant (with exactly the same items as in the video + lightning resistance for Bane Lord ), where the Tyrant finishes buff cycle and then enter the melee battle with say no more than 40 fatigue (which is easy if you let Bane Lord hold for some turns, and Tyrant cast summon earthpower as the first spell), THEN the Bane Lord has basically close to 0% chance to win. I tested this many times. The reason is because: 1. the Tyrant takes at most two turns to kill the Bane Lord; 2. funnily enough the Bane Lord get repelled a lot by the Tyrant. Therefore, I think it would be mislead if people think "a quickened dual axe of hate wielding Bane lord can solo kill Laestrygonian Tyrant". Btw, Tyrant is unlike many other SC, he can be used together with Army(at least chaffs, e.g. PD) since he can berserk and therefore is much less prone to army hp route. When used in army, it's much more likely for Tyrant to finish buff cycle and reinvigorate some before entering melee.
You make good points, but killing SCs as part of an army is a different animal than killing them acting alone. Killing them as part of an army is normally just winning the army fight then having a good mix of thugs mixed in with good anti sc weapons. GC has a battle where he is LA phelegra playing against a Pan player. The pan play just uses a lot of Centuar thugs with 5 gem greatswords of sharpness.
@@LucidTactics yeah I saw that fight, imo was really dicey, GC's Trygonian insta killed like 4 or 5 thugs and then the last one got lucky and had chance to swing against the Trygonian because the Trygonian was killing something else. Oh and that's a Trygonian without PP.. Anyway, my main point is: a good part of the fact that you killed the Trygonian with Bane in your test is because of the "quick face rush". It would be misleading to say "a quickened dual axe of hate wielding Bane lord can solo kill Laestrygonian Tyrant", because in a "fair" fight the Bane will lose, or let's say if the Trygonian brings chaffs along with him to delay the thug. Not saying "quick face rush" is not what you should do, it definitely is, but just in many cases you might be hindered a bit and then the face rush is not quick enough.
@@albaby7900 If you have solo tyrants attacking into your territory putting quick rush thugs with your PD is the right thing to do. Obviously a Thug vs SC + army isnt going to go well.
@@LucidTactics You know what, I just DID SEVERAL TEST RUNS where I put that Bane lord(same items + shockres ring) in the middle front and let him attack IMMEDIATELY, and let the Tyrant(same items) sit in the left back corner and cast summon earth power+temper flesh+PP+iron will+soul vortex, nothing else on the battlefield. OK, the Tyrant has two stars but that's typical. The Tyrant still WINS. (Actually the Tyrant will have a sure win if he doesn't cast SV, or if he has a few more turns to reinvigorate) So I never said you need a real army to interrupt a quick rush, anything, like any chaff distraction, or any positioning variation can do it. And I never said you should not quick rush, you definitely should! But just in many cases you might be hindered(or in this case nothing hindering just a positioning variation of Tyrant) a bit and then the face rush is not quick enough. And it would be misleading if people watching this video thinks "OH, quickened dual axe of hate Bane Lord can solo kill Laestrygonian".
@@albaby7900Well they can solo kill Laestrygonians. Laestrygonians are still nasty and if you dont put them to sleep really fast with the axes of hate or if you get unlucky attack rolls you can totally still die, or route from fear. Best case is you have some summon chaff (air eles or imps etc) fly in around the same turn you expect the banelord to make contact if you want to remove some risk. But, Laestrygonians can definitely get solo killed by bane lords. I went and retested it and the bane lord died a good deal more than in the few times i tested it when making this video but they also kill a lot of tyrants. You can add to their survivability by throwing on a dancing shield instead of +attack item. You will still lose some banelords. If you want to kill those monsters without much risk of banelords dying you need chaff summoners too.
I just noticed an easily buildable 2 construction item that costs 5 death gems called the bow of botulf which causes non-MR negating feeblemindedness on hit. Could buffing someone with aim and giving them a bow of botulf be a viable counter to this kind of mage SC?
I'm hoping for a bit of advice regarding a game I'm playing, I know this is a lot of text. I was playing a game that we have had to pause to be continued later (possibly today). My opponent had thrown me a curveball in the form of a fire based heavy thug or supercombatant, named Rhuax, the King of Magma. It casts a fire spell at the start of combat due to a sword it's using and then uses fear and intimidate effects. It is also Ethereal and has 2 Astral levels and high magic resistance (so mind hunt doesn't work). While we were playing I was scrambling to find an answer. I had been producing Terra Cotta Soldiers for some time, but I lacked magical leadership, so I have used my Mystics to march them into my outter fort but I'm scared to march them towards the enemy under the command of my Mystics. Wizards are frail and the enemy casts a fire spell at the start of combat so if I start the communion in round 1 and boost its fire RES in round 2 they will probably already have been hit by the fire spell which could leave my Terra Cotta Soldiers immobile. Should I perhaps forge the Crown of Command that gives magical command and give those to my regular hoplite commanders? Or would it be a good idea to mass produce Fire RES boosting items and give them to my wizards? I am playing Arcoscephale and I got a national hero (Son of Titans) that has the 'Invulnerable' trait. I have equipped him with a Fire Brand(Morale and Fire RES boosting sword), a nature magic item that makes him large, I have given him the golden shield that gives awe +5. I'm not sure if this Fire Brand is the right answer to my enemy's King of Magma. The Fire RES and Morale seem good protection but perhaps an Ethereal Crossbow is a better way to kill him. I have five of those and I was perhaps thinking of just equiping those to something, but I am not sure what to summon. I have tried to branch out my magic paths as much as possible. I have access to Astral 5, Nature 4, Air 2, Death 2, Earth 3, Fire 2. I have over 100 fire, earth, water and nature gems and I get 17 Astral Gems per turn (I tend to use them the most right now) Is there a certain thug that Arcoscephale has access to at Conj 8 that would be suitable to take this King of Magma down? Maybe I should just equip them to wizards(Mystics) that have fire RES boosting itens and Teleport them in?
Great Video. Which other nations have good (can be reached reliably and not too late) options for SCs in your opinion? I am asking this from a relative beginners perspektive. ;-)
LucidTactics Stacked cold auras work great against SCs with no cold res -- you can basically keep them fatigue locked and eventually kill them with crits.
How do you find out what equipment your opponent's commander is holding? I have looked at the battle report and right clicked their unit, but you always see empty equipment slots.
@@LucidTactics Oooooooohhhh. I have to pause it and click the actual unit on screen, rather than the unit type in the casualty list. Excellent! Thank you.
@@Mizelei2012 when there are many mages and troops it's oftn hard to find the right ones. Try 'F'1 in combat then to get a list with all units on the field, 'c' will only show commanders in the list. In that list, right click works and presents you the items on the commanders.
Great video. Mind making one on how you were able to achieve your test game state? You had 1.5k of each gem, a spell called Super Wish, and units with every path a 9. Teach us schwammi. We are not worthy!
It's a mod called debug mod it adds 1 pearl versions of wish, gift of reason, divine name, eyes of god and a spell called summon debug sensei which summons those all 9 path commanders. Additionally it set's all spells to be available with no research required. You can get it here www.dropbox.com/s/oo492x2cs8vag34/debug509.zip?dl=0
Aye, that's kinda why I'm a proponent of turn 1 Phoenix pyre if at all possible, cause if I can hit him before that it's one hit ko, but you usually wanna at least communion up your mages. I don't even know who should end up with efficient Gifts from Heaven communion in la.
Ha that's something I didn't think of. But I found out that quickness luck Nagas kinda roll over things and do pretty well vs sc because of the hypnotize stun. Plus Nagarajas can turn 1 gift from heaven (and then maybe even retreat) which Gurus spamming some swarms to tie the bastards up and berserk them before they finish buff cycle (cause of the 1 dmg armor negating attack on flying bugs)
Play as astral nation and take magic pen in your bless (you can make a shroud thing if you don't have sacred astral mage). Soul slay. EDIT: And then I saw the 25 magic resistance on this unit at start of video. Wtf is that? And natively having like 8 attacks? Who thought this was balanced? EDITEDIT: So it appears that it would natively only have like 14, which is a lot easier to deal with. You just have to have a couple soul slayers spamming 2 or 3 spells each and you should kill him ez pz.
no amount of MR makes you invunrable to mr check just less likly and forces your opponent to have more casts of it. 50 casts from a dedicated astral turbo communion is likly to get any SC no matter the high mr.
True, but it can make you nigh-invulnerable. Or at least make it so that the enemy spends more taking down your SC than you did making it, which, if you then kill their communion somehow, is a win for you
It also occurs to me that acid resistance is pretty dang hard to come by. Enough acid damage should take this guy down as well. He also only has 16 morale (you can build for morale, but it's a tradeoff), which while not bad, is certainly not unroutable.
![[UNCUT]"ทนายตั้ม" แฉยับ! ความลับสวรรค์ ใครคือ "บิ๊กเทวดา" ของบอสพอล l คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ l 15 ต.ค. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ru9fpSaUwdA/mqdefault.jpg)
I want to make a mod for a SC based on Guts from berserk. something with horror marked but can go toe to toe with greater horrors and the like
Thats a pretty cool idea. I bet you could design a tyrant to go toe to toe with even doom horrors. Axe of hate x2 + boots of quickness + stacking defense could probably do it. Cool idea to make the SC start horror marked.
@@LucidTactics but... Tyrants can't use shoes...
Your bane lord vs. Tyrant test is essentially a "quick face rush". I believe the Tyrant didn't have chance to swing even once against the Bane Lord in both test runs.
I know it would NOT be a realistic situation, but if we allow a "FAIR" fight between the Bane Lord and the Tyrant (with exactly the same items as in the video + lightning resistance for Bane Lord ), where the Tyrant finishes buff cycle and then enter the melee battle with say no more than 40 fatigue (which is easy if you let Bane Lord hold for some turns, and Tyrant cast summon earthpower as the first spell), THEN the Bane Lord has basically close to 0% chance to win. I tested this many times. The reason is because: 1. the Tyrant takes at most two turns to kill the Bane Lord; 2. funnily enough the Bane Lord get repelled a lot by the Tyrant. Therefore, I think it would be mislead if people think "a quickened dual axe of hate wielding Bane lord can solo kill Laestrygonian Tyrant".
Btw, Tyrant is unlike many other SC, he can be used together with Army(at least chaffs, e.g. PD) since he can berserk and therefore is much less prone to army hp route. When used in army, it's much more likely for Tyrant to finish buff cycle and reinvigorate some before entering melee.
You make good points, but killing SCs as part of an army is a different animal than killing them acting alone. Killing them as part of an army is normally just winning the army fight then having a good mix of thugs mixed in with good anti sc weapons.
GC has a battle where he is LA phelegra playing against a Pan player. The pan play just uses a lot of Centuar thugs with 5 gem greatswords of sharpness.
@@LucidTactics yeah I saw that fight, imo was really dicey, GC's Trygonian insta killed like 4 or 5 thugs and then the last one got lucky and had chance to swing against the Trygonian because the Trygonian was killing something else. Oh and that's a Trygonian without PP..
Anyway, my main point is: a good part of the fact that you killed the Trygonian with Bane in your test is because of the "quick face rush". It would be misleading to say "a quickened dual axe of hate wielding Bane lord can solo kill Laestrygonian Tyrant", because in a "fair" fight the Bane will lose, or let's say if the Trygonian brings chaffs along with him to delay the thug.
Not saying "quick face rush" is not what you should do, it definitely is, but just in many cases you might be hindered a bit and then the face rush is not quick enough.
@@albaby7900 If you have solo tyrants attacking into your territory putting quick rush thugs with your PD is the right thing to do. Obviously a Thug vs SC + army isnt going to go well.
@@LucidTactics You know what, I just DID SEVERAL TEST RUNS where I put that Bane lord(same items + shockres ring) in the middle front and let him attack IMMEDIATELY, and let the Tyrant(same items) sit in the left back corner and cast summon earth power+temper flesh+PP+iron will+soul vortex, nothing else on the battlefield. OK, the Tyrant has two stars but that's typical. The Tyrant still WINS. (Actually the Tyrant will have a sure win if he doesn't cast SV, or if he has a few more turns to reinvigorate)
So I never said you need a real army to interrupt a quick rush, anything, like any chaff distraction, or any positioning variation can do it.
And I never said you should not quick rush, you definitely should! But just in many cases you might be hindered(or in this case nothing hindering just a positioning variation of Tyrant) a bit and then the face rush is not quick enough.
And it would be misleading if people watching this video thinks "OH, quickened dual axe of hate Bane Lord can solo kill Laestrygonian".
@@albaby7900Well they can solo kill Laestrygonians. Laestrygonians are still nasty and if you dont put them to sleep really fast with the axes of hate or if you get unlucky attack rolls you can totally still die, or route from fear. Best case is you have some summon chaff (air eles or imps etc) fly in around the same turn you expect the banelord to make contact if you want to remove some risk. But, Laestrygonians can definitely get solo killed by bane lords. I went and retested it and the bane lord died a good deal more than in the few times i tested it when making this video but they also kill a lot of tyrants. You can add to their survivability by throwing on a dancing shield instead of +attack item. You will still lose some banelords. If you want to kill those monsters without much risk of banelords dying you need chaff summoners too.
I just noticed an easily buildable 2 construction item that costs 5 death gems called the bow of botulf which causes non-MR negating feeblemindedness on hit. Could buffing someone with aim and giving them a bow of botulf be a viable counter to this kind of mage SC?
Yeah it is required to do damage though. So against really high prot dudes - i wouldn't count on it.
I'm hoping for a bit of advice regarding a game I'm playing, I know this is a lot of text. I was playing a game that we have had to pause to be continued later (possibly today). My opponent had thrown me a curveball in the form of a fire based heavy thug or supercombatant, named Rhuax, the King of Magma. It casts a fire spell at the start of combat due to a sword it's using and then uses fear and intimidate effects. It is also Ethereal and has 2 Astral levels and high magic resistance (so mind hunt doesn't work). While we were playing I was scrambling to find an answer.
I had been producing Terra Cotta Soldiers for some time, but I lacked magical leadership, so I have used my Mystics to march them into my outter fort but I'm scared to march them towards the enemy under the command of my Mystics. Wizards are frail and the enemy casts a fire spell at the start of combat so if I start the communion in round 1 and boost its fire RES in round 2 they will probably already have been hit by the fire spell which could leave my Terra Cotta Soldiers immobile. Should I perhaps forge the Crown of Command that gives magical command and give those to my regular hoplite commanders? Or would it be a good idea to mass produce Fire RES boosting items and give them to my wizards?
I am playing Arcoscephale and I got a national hero (Son of Titans) that has the 'Invulnerable' trait. I have equipped him with a Fire Brand(Morale and Fire RES boosting sword), a nature magic item that makes him large, I have given him the golden shield that gives awe +5. I'm not sure if this Fire Brand is the right answer to my enemy's King of Magma. The Fire RES and Morale seem good protection but perhaps an Ethereal Crossbow is a better way to kill him. I have five of those and I was perhaps thinking of just equiping those to something, but I am not sure what to summon. I have tried to branch out my magic paths as much as possible. I have access to Astral 5, Nature 4, Air 2, Death 2, Earth 3, Fire 2. I have over 100 fire, earth, water and nature gems and I get 17 Astral Gems per turn (I tend to use them the most right now) Is there a certain thug that Arcoscephale has access to at Conj 8 that would be suitable to take this King of Magma down?
Maybe I should just equip them to wizards(Mystics) that have fire RES boosting itens and Teleport them in?
Great Video. Which other nations have good (can be reached reliably and not too late) options for SCs in your opinion? I am asking this from a relative beginners perspektive. ;-)
Most of the giant nations can do it. Niefelhhiem, Yomi, Gath, Ashdod, Phelegra - i'm probably missing some :)
Would cold damage work since it can generate fatigue? In terms of efficiency anyway.
Yeah i think the numbness rod works there if they dont have cold resistance. I dont know how other normal cold damage impacts fatigue.
LucidTactics Stacked cold auras work great against SCs with no cold res -- you can basically keep them fatigue locked and eventually kill them with crits.
@@esotericCult My angry mob of little Rimvaettis just chilled a 650 health monolith to death like this. Just lots and lots of cold auras...
More mechanics dom 5 videos. Very interesting video.
give him shroud of battle saint ( which makes him blessable) and dump all the blesses on him.
more fatigue control resistence etc.
How do you find out what equipment your opponent's commander is holding? I have looked at the battle report and right clicked their unit, but you always see empty equipment slots.
you have to right click on them inside the battle replay, equipment wont show up in the battle report.
@@LucidTactics Oooooooohhhh. I have to pause it and click the actual unit on screen, rather than the unit type in the casualty list. Excellent! Thank you.
@@Mizelei2012 when there are many mages and troops it's oftn hard to find the right ones. Try 'F'1 in combat then to get a list with all units on the field, 'c' will only show commanders in the list. In that list, right click works and presents you the items on the commanders.
Great video. Mind making one on how you were able to achieve your test game state? You had 1.5k of each gem, a spell called Super Wish, and units with every path a 9.
Teach us schwammi. We are not worthy!
It's a mod called debug mod it adds 1 pearl versions of wish, gift of reason, divine name, eyes of god and a spell called summon debug sensei which summons those all 9 path commanders. Additionally it set's all spells to be available with no research required. You can get it here www.dropbox.com/s/oo492x2cs8vag34/debug509.zip?dl=0
Thank you!
Turn 2 gifts from heaven and pray would be my way of trying. But yeah counter sc thugs are the way to go
The problem you can run into there is pheonix pyre.
Aye, that's kinda why I'm a proponent of turn 1 Phoenix pyre if at all possible, cause if I can hit him before that it's one hit ko, but you usually wanna at least communion up your mages. I don't even know who should end up with efficient Gifts from Heaven communion in la.
Guess maybe Patala or Bogarus. But I gotta dick around in la more overall
LA Man can gifts spam like no other.
Ha that's something I didn't think of. But I found out that quickness luck Nagas kinda roll over things and do pretty well vs sc because of the hypnotize stun. Plus Nagarajas can turn 1 gift from heaven (and then maybe even retreat) which Gurus spamming some swarms to tie the bastards up and berserk them before they finish buff cycle (cause of the 1 dmg armor negating attack on flying bugs)
Play as astral nation and take magic pen in your bless (you can make a shroud thing if you don't have sacred astral mage). Soul slay.
EDIT: And then I saw the 25 magic resistance on this unit at start of video. Wtf is that? And natively having like 8 attacks? Who thought this was balanced?
EDITEDIT: So it appears that it would natively only have like 14, which is a lot easier to deal with. You just have to have a couple soul slayers spamming 2 or 3 spells each and you should kill him ez pz.
Did you watch the video? The thug is made specifically with MR in mind. Soul slay would not work on this SC build and if it did, you lucked out.
no amount of MR makes you invunrable to mr check just less likly and forces your opponent to have more casts of it. 50 casts from a dedicated astral turbo communion is likly to get any SC no matter the high mr.
True, but it can make you nigh-invulnerable. Or at least make it so that the enemy spends more taking down your SC than you did making it, which, if you then kill their communion somehow, is a win for you
Honestly the easiest way would IMO just be a Skelly-spam communion to make them time out and auto-die
It also occurs to me that acid resistance is pretty dang hard to come by. Enough acid damage should take this guy down as well. He also only has 16 morale (you can build for morale, but it's a tradeoff), which while not bad, is certainly not unroutable.