Fun fact. There is a small Franklin Automobile Museum in Tucson, Arizona. Also after the years of building automobiles, the company ventured into building engines for aircraft. Still used in several different classic aircraft. A very well built engine.
I first want to acknowledge the incredible camera and sound setup in the this video, well done! Mr Moffat's knowledge of these cars is outstanding - thank you sir for sharing. A personal story - my mentor in my career was also a car guy. One metaphor he used was the Franklin, and the change in style to conform, as an example of human nature. I find the engineering and style captivating - thank you both again for teaching me more. Have a great week, God bless ~ Chuck
My friends, late father-in-law fully restored a 1927 Franklin years and years ago to perfection. Oddly enough, it was owned by my neighbor many years before that. Either way when he passed away, the family doesn’t know what to do with the car. I wish they would donate it to the museum. It would be a terrific addition to this collection.
He asked what sort of customer bought Franklins. They had a lot of appeal to the technical man, such as an engineer, scientist, or someone who could appreciate the unusual design. Aviator Charles Lindbergh was a Franklin owner and so were others in aviation, the engine had a lot in common with the air cooled aircraft engines of the day. They really shone on long trips. The smooth suspension and well balanced chassis meant you could cover a lot of ground in a day, more than other cars with more horsepower and higher top speed. They were also quite economical on fuel.
Franklin cars set a number of long distance records from the earliest days to their end. In 1903 a Winton car crossed the USA in 66 days. in 1904 a 4 cylinder Franklin cut that in half to 33 days. 2 years later a 6 cylinder Franklin had it down to 15 days. By the late 1920s Cannonball Baker set several cross country records in Franklins with the time now down under 3 days, including a "there and back trip" of a bit over 6 days.
As a technical man myself, I would not have thought so. Air cooling in aircraft has advantages not applicable to cars - less weight, and in miliary aircraft, and enemy bullet in any part of the cooling system means you don't get home. There is no need for a diirty great fan, because there already is one - the propellor. And the air at aircraft cruising height is very cold and substantially independent of climatic region or weather. Saying that a technical man would prefer an air cooled car because aircraft engines are aircooled is much like saying you don't want an accelerator pump in the carby because aircraft carbies don't have them. Or you don't want vacuum advance because aircraft don't have that.
@@keithammleter3824 • The Franklin engine had quite a few fewer parts than a water cooled engine, so less things to go wrong. • Advances in fan design meant that by the end of Franklin production the "dirty great fan" was using about 4hp out the engine's 100hp to move the air needed at full power/speed. • In the days before antifreeze, Franklin owners didn't have to drain their car overnight and refill in the morning or keep it warm in winter, and didn't suffer boiling over problems in summer - as long as the fan was turning (i.e. the engine was turning because the fan was mounted to the crankshaft) it was sufficiently cooling the engine. • A Franklin was driven for 24 hours in low gear in Death Valley without problems.
@@RogerMoffat From an early Franklin ad "the only moving part in the Franklin cooling system is the flywheel, and since every engine must have a flywheel to run, it is evident that the limit of simplicity has been reached". By the way it wasn't just the engine that was innovative. The full elliptic springing on all 4 wheels, wooden chassis rails and precise steering gave superior ride and handling.
Hi Paul! Thanks for the in-depth tour of the Franklin Museum! Those were such cool and interesting cars! They are also pretty big too! Saw one at a car auction that had the horse collar grille. Had the wooden chassis too, which was totally amazing! I bet they rode pretty nice with the added flexibility and dampening qualities of the wooden chassis rails. Have a great day!
I remember visiting the Franklin museum during the brief time it was housed in Arizona. They used to have an even older car on display, I believe a 1903. The engine had an unusual feature in that the pushrods for the exhaust valves passed through the exhaust manifold at the top, with the top end of the pushrod sticking out of the top of each exhaust pipe just where it exited the cylinder head. The 1905 engine shown here doesn't share that incredible feature.
I have the privilege of living about 20 minutes from the Gilmore Car Museum, and it's a fantastic place. I've been a member for several years, and it's always worth the visit. They also do a Ford Model T driving school that's tons of fun. Thanks for a great video!
Even water cooled cars are Air Cooled, if there wasn't air being pushed through a radiator, the engine would overheat. Enjoyed the interesting video !!
Exactly. Really the only thing that separates the two is one is externally cooled and the other is internally cooled. And speaking of cool, those are the coolest automobiles I've ever seen!
Absolutely beautiful cars, and thank you so much for treating us to them! Being an engineer with a background in thermodynamics, and also a former race engine builder, I'll take a shot at the reason why all cars are not air cooled. There are benefits and drawbacks to both designs, and I'll sometimes jokingly put my finger out the window of our VW and say "Yep, lots of coolant!". In short though; Liquid is simply more dense and can carry more BTU's of heat away from a surface, then pass it off to a radiator with a much greater surface area than cylinder fins. The more power an engine produces, the less appropriate air cooling becomes. This is why the "supercharged" Franklin only used mild pressure to improve intake flow to the carb, rather than running a sealed high pressure system that would produce more heat than the fins could dissipate. Now that that's out of the way, we own and thoroughly enjoy both types, and the engine in our Karmann Ghia has been both fun and dead reliable for fourteen years. Oh, and the heat works too! By the way, Paul's reference to the PT Cruiser was funny and valid. You open the door, and you have a space you can step on, but few people do. No shame in the comparison, as contrary to common belief, the PT Cruiser is actually a very functional and comfortable car, and I can tell you first hand that it is better built than a Honda Civic.
I agree with every word you just shared. And, as a fellow engineer (electrical), I believe your explanation for liquid cooling is spot on. Love those Ghias!! Wish I could ride in one.
What a really neat car museum, those Franklin's are very very special. Having an air cooled car never entered my thoughts, stunning cars for sure. Thanks Paul, I hope you have a great weekend!
Thanks Paul for sharing! Wow! If I drove a Franklin like I dive my “A” it would take twice a as long to drive the Lincoln Highway if I had to stop every 100 mile to take the cover off and oil it down. What a beautiful car and the neat engineering. See down country Road! Steve
I've only made it to the Gilmore a couple of times, but I spent a LOT of time in both the Franklin and Pierce-Arrow buildings. Also dallied around the Tucker a lot, because Tucker. Great video, Paul!
@@ModelA I always wondered what the Tucker Carioça looked like. It wss purportedly a prototype he was working on in South America when he died. I don't remember if a prototype was actually made or it never made it past the sketch phase. Loved the flick though, even if it took a few creative liberties...
Great video! I would encourage you to continue to show what other car manufacturers were offering at the same period as the Model A. It gives insights into why Ford did what he did, shows other solutions to similar automotive problems at that time and puts perspective on how diverse the marketplace was back then. Thanks Again!
Wow, those are very nice cars. Thanks for the tour, Paul. It's sad that they need to sell that car, but maybe they need the money to keep things going.
the 1931 green & black "concept" cars inside steps were copied by Chevrolet trucks (1955-59). When they went from running boards to inside steps. Except, about a 1/4 century earlier! This was an amazing episode & Tina does an exceptional job filming! Kudos Tina
On the other hand, there is the Volkswagen. When Beetles and Combis were common, it was quite normal to hear them running rough and popping and banging going down hills, as the engines overheated and ruined their exhaust valves.
I'm not a fan of Frankin's per say, even though they are gorgeous... but I'm a huge fan of spoked wheels This poor girl can't afford an antique sportscar, so thank goodness for gorgeous motorcycles with gorgeous chrome spokes.
Orville Wright drove a Franklin. Also, the Stinson Voyager designed in the late 1930s used a Franklin aircraft engine. General aviation engines of today, made by Lycoming and Continental, are all air cooled.
Franklin Aircraft engines are still being made in Poland. Tucker, of Tucker Cars fame bought the company to provide the engines for the Tucker automobile, but insisted they be water cooled, but the design was a Franklin Engines flat 6 cylinder layout just with water jackets.
Many kudos to the people who produced this informative tour. I thought I knew quite a bit of automotive history etc. But a number of mechanical features were completely new to me. Which is a good thing. 🚗✌️
Air cooling makes for rather poor temperature regulation, and with the primitive oils and metallurgy of 100 years ago, the chronic high temperatures would burn up the rings. JonathanW on TH-cam found a Franklin with burned up rings and half the pistons had already been replaced.
I'm glad you did this video. The Franklin was priced more like Oldsmobile or Hudson I think. Buicks and Cadillacs would have been quite a bit more in 1930
I so want a Franklin! I know where a 1922 model is, but I just can't afford it! They are just neat. The wood frame was supposed to make them feel like you were floating on air! I LOVE the background music in this video! I post my 1920s music on my roybo1930 site!
It's amazing that they even went through the troubles of making the fake radiator a honeycomb pattern. Try and find a radiator shop that'd build you a Real Honeycomb rad today - and back then they did it for show! Electric cars these days have fake radiator grilles, but nowhere near as detailed as the Franklin prop. Wild times!
I'm a bit surprised the Franklin Museum is in Michigan and not in Syracuse, NY where they were built. Along with the aircraft engines and Tucker engines that existed until the 70s when the tooling was sent to Eastern Europe.
Paul, i love what you do. while model A's tie for second place on my list of "fovorite areas" (they tie with the post war cars up to 1957) the top of my car pryamid is the fat fendered cars from 1935 to 41. I hate horeses, so Henery Ford is hero of mine. I just wanted to say i have watched many of your vids and thanks for what you do.
To answer the thumbnail, the same liquid cooled motor will have twice the power installed in a boat with the unlimited cooling available using the lake water. Air cooling is hard or impossible with the power we can get from the gasoline these days. These cars, although super neat and beautiful are not very powerful. Low power equals low amounts of heat to disperse.
Actually, its just the opposite. Those early car engines had low power output because they were inefficient, due to low compression ratios and small diameter valves. So, a greater portion of the combustion heat was lost through the cylinder walls and heads instead of being converted into mechanical power. That's why radiators have remained about the same size or got smaller, even though power output has substantially increased.
I was told some years ago, that emission control was at least partially dependent on engine temperature stability and that water cooling was superior in that regard.
Awesome museum!!I live about an hour away and go at least once a year. Peterson museum in LA is nice but nothing like the Gilmore. The Gilmore draws you in no doubt.
"predecessor of what became the PT cruiser" . That should have been edited out. Where did that come from ? That's the most bizarre comparison I ever heard. "Predecessor of the Vega" would not have been less appropriate.
GM experimented with the so-called "Copper Cooled Engine" which had a copper heatsink and was air cooled. As much trouble as water cooling was (these were the days before ethylene glycol) "copper cooling" didn't work and was abandoned. The book "My Years at General Motors" goes into great detail of the early days.
There is a Franklin museum in Norwich N.Y.Northeast Classic Car Museum that has the largest collection of Franklins in the world.About 50 miles from Syracuse.
Learned a lot of new things today! These cars are so interesting; that valve on valve concept is WILD! Also the air flow concepts for cooling are fascinating. In the end only a few air cooled manufacturers were really successful. Off the top of my head Citroen, Fiat, BMW, Messerschmitt, Tucker, Chevrolet, VW and Porsche all used air cooled technology in cars but in the end VW and ultimately Porsche were really successful with Porsche taking the technology as far as it could go; they had to go fluid cooled eventually. That ‘31 model with the golf club compartments would be the perfect present for President Trump 🤣
The VW and Porsche designs were basically stolen from Tatra during WW2; Tatra wrote the book (literally) on air cooled car and bike engines, and came up with a rear engined V8 that was very advanced for its time. BMW developed the most successful air cooled radial engine for aircraft in WW2, then with the exception of the 700, forgot all about it. They bought the Isetta design. Other major manufacturers were Trabant, Panhard, NSU and DAF. The Citroen GSA was produced until 1986, the Porsche 993 until 1998, and the VW until 2003.
@@EbenBransome Trabant, DAF - cars made as cheap and nasty as possible when economic conditions meant people could not afford a proper car. NSU - absolute junk. The Porsche was air-cooled because it is basically an upmarket VW Beetle - retaining air cooling saved a heck of a lot of money.
Franklin became Republic Aviation and built helicopter engines during WWII. Tucker bought it for his cars and owned it until 1961 when it became Aero Industries and finally closed in 1975. A friend had a Stinson airplane with a Franklin engine.
Why aren't all cars air cooled? Simple..... 1....unreliable. 2.....no heating capability in the winter. 3.....overheating in hot climates. 4.....requires excessive maintenance.
@technobubble1 you clearly don't live in a state that's constantly over 100. Or a state that sees sub freezing temperatures. That's why you're wrong. Cause if I was wrong....we wouldn't have the complexity of liquid cooling in our vehicles. Manufacturers would build your cars cheap to maximize their profits.
Why is there a Franklin museum in Michigan, but not in Syracuse (where they were made), perhaps somewhere near, I dunno, maybe Franklin square? There IS a museum which has a lot of Franklins just south of Canajoharie, but that's still quite a way from Syracuse...
Why aren't all cars air-cooled? There's no answer in the video, but I believe it's because with liquid cooling the engine makes less noise, cylinder temperature can be regulated resulting in slightly better efficiency and a small part of the massive energy waste inherent to the combustion engine can be recuperated for heating and defrosting the windshield.
Right. VW engines were air cooled and the cabin heaters relied upon ducting air around the exhaust pipes. This didn't give much heat and the smallest leak would feed exhaust fumes into the cabin.
To answer the video topic question, air cooled engines struggle to attain high horsepower w/o overheating. Motorcycles rely on the blast of air from the forward motion. High performance cars with a rear engine like the Porsche 911 rely on a horsepower sapping fan. Even fighter planes, with all that 300 mph air for cooling went water cooled during the 1930's. And in cars, very difficult to get heat into the passenger compartment. The original Corvair had an actual gasoline fired mini-furnace to do that. The good news is that one had instant heat. The bad news was that fuel mileage dropped a lot. I wonder why Franklin tried to even out the cooling between cylinders.
Hey Paul! First off, your channel is the best! I was hoping you could actually help me with my Model A. Up until recently, it had been running great, yet when we went to start it, the engine would turn over slowly, very slowly, about 4 times before it started. Now it won’t start. When I engage the starter pedal, the engine turns about an inch, then stops. We checked the battery and it’s great, checked if it was getting sparks and it was. When the starter pedal is pushed in, you hear it engage, but nothing turns. Hoping you could bestow your wisdom on me and help me out! Just got into the Model A hobby and this is just bugging me! Thanks
Hey Hogie!! First, do you have the engine pans installed? If not, run a battery cable size wire from one of the flywheel housing bolts directly to the battery or the frame. Next is the starter could be tired. They can be rebuilt.
@@ModelA Our coupe does have the pans, but will figure out a way to do so. After watching some videos, I also think the starter needs to be replaced. Thanks so much!
@@ModelA - being air-cooled and manually oiling the valve train are not linked by necessity - they are 2 separate choices. Later Franklins did have lubrication up to the upper cylinders from the oil pump, but all Franklins that had enclosed valve trains did have large felt pads to hold the oil near the rockers (which Franklin actually called "walking beams">)
@@RogerMoffat Exactly. Look at the Volkswagen Beetle - air cooled but you don't have to stop and oil it every 500 miles. Air cooled motocycle engines were dominant for 100 years - and you don't have to stop and oil every 500 miles on them either. Claiming it because you have to manually oil it is ridiculous. Cars are almost entirely liquid cooled because it stops variation in cylinder temperature with accelerator position, keeping clearance optimum and reducing wear. It allows tight control over temperature via the thermstat, which considerably reduces wear and means the same oil viscosity can be used regardless of weather.
Was it Franklin that got bought by Tucker for it’s air cooled horizontally opposed 6 cylinder helicopter engine, that Tucker converted to liquid cooled? Later I think it got purchased by Poland for it’s aircraft engine business & is apparently still going. Well that is unless I’ve got them mixed up with another mob?
Yes - Tucker bought the Air Cooled Motors company to get control of the engines they bought. But Tucker insisted that the engine has to be water cooled, so the Air-Cooled Motors company deviated from their norm to make that flat 6 cylinder engine for Tucker. The Franklin Club has a number of letters between Tucker and Air Cooled Motors where this was discussed. (the letters are currently not available publicly). And yes, the Air Cooled Motors/Franklin name lives on in Poland.
air cooled only works on 4 cylinder engines and preferable 2 opposed because the cylinders in the back over heat and sieze up. It happened all the time on Volkswagens and Porches.
For my friend's 1927 Franklin, I did some welding and machine work on one of those air cooled pistons. It involved welding up the aluminum piston ring grooves and re-cutting them on the lathe. Link if you are interested. th-cam.com/video/CRSRPLQWyfM/w-d-xo.html
One word. Tooling. + Every operation costs more for someone to turn the screws and nuts. If you ever worked on a Corvair engine and Chevy I-6 230? The parts count is less on the I-6. Both engines do one thing well. They last too long.
The VW Beetles, and vans, and other models they produced, (until recently) were all air cooled. I think it is possible to go back to air cooled engines, in gasoline fueled vehicles.
@@brettmacdonald6777 Really? how do motorcycles pass smog laws? Hundreds , maybe millions own old VWs. I bet there is a work-around. Smog laws are meant to be broken. Keep your head down, and nobody needs to know. I'd rather break a law and ask for forgiveness, that seek proper authorization.
@@Davett53 Yes scooters have smog laws but they are different than car ones. Many bikes went to water cooled. Smog laws are meant to be broken but mother nature is tougher than an idiot politician. Air cooled needs to run fat to keep the temps down. Lean it out where internal combustion is most effective and you accelerate the failure process greatly.
@@brettmacdonald6777 I was surprised when I purchased my 1985 Honda scooter, that it was water cooled. Such a tiny radiator. It made sense the engine was enclosed in a plastic fairing.
They are, technically. Some employees spun off the company to build aircraft engines after it went under, and the Franklin name and business is still making engines in Poland. Tucker briefly owned the engine company to supply flat sixes for his car, but after that failed they went back to aircraft engine production. Franklin failed due to a combination of things, expansion of production that was expected prior to the stock market crash of 1929 put them in financial stress, in conjunction with them producing higher end cars with high price tags. Unlike bigger makers like Ford and GM, Franklin had no extra cash to work with through the depression being a small manufacturer, and they lacked diversification. They had attempted to make a lower priced car before the late 20s, but scrapped the concept as they felt it couldn't be done to the level of quality they wanted for around $1000. Lots of small makers went under after the depression, especially luxury car makers; Franklin sadly was not different.
A lot of motorcycles remain air cooled despite these problems. Air cooled motorcycles wear out much faster than their water cooled counterparts: Probably double the rate... maybe more. 🙂
VW air cooled engines run at 76 to 79ºC depending on ambient temperature and choice of thermostat. Water cooled engines run at 82 to 90ºC depending on thermostat.
I wish they were, because water cooling swcks. After years of having wonderful air cooled motorcycles, I finally ended up with a water cooled motorcycle... and I'm like.. why
Why? Simple, air cooled engines run much hotter then water cooled engines. Where an water cooled engine runs around 180 degrees depending upon the thermostat you use, an air cooled engine runs around 400 degrees. First problem is detonation air cooled engines generally have much lower compression and or boost because due to the much higher temperatures they will detonate much sooner than a water cooled engine, this results in lower HP and fuel efficiency. Next problem with hotter temperatures is shorter life air cooled engines don't last as long as water cooled engine. Now let's talk about the next problem with air cooled engines, power density. Air cooling is not nearly as effective as water cooling at removing heat and the space to cool the cylinder is limited. You can easily add a bigger radiator however it's not so easy to add more fins to a cylinder when it's up against other cylinders. You will find air cooled engines have a lower HP to CI ratio then water cooled engines. About the only places air cooled engines make sense is in aircraft where there is an abundance of fast moving very cold air and minimizing weight is important, or in power equipment like mowers and saws where you want to minimize weight and they run in an extremely dirty environment where a radiator would get clogged frequently. An air cooled car engine is a terrible idea. Look at the most common air cooled cars the VWs, Porsches. and the Corvairs these engines were severely underpowered, didn't last long, and your options to increase power were severely limited by overheating. In the case of the air cooled Porsches these things were running at the absolute cooling limit, I owned one and if you got stuck in traffic it would overheat. It needed to be moving at least 40 mph to not overheat. The car was a dog as far as power was concerned, however it handled like it was on rails. Any attempt to increase the power results in overheating. Air cooling is an inferior method of cooling anything from a computer chip to an engine, however it's simpler, often cheaper, and less susceptible to damage. This is why the Navy liked air cooled radials, they could get pretty badly shot up and keep going where a liquid cooled engine could be put out of action by a single bullet hole. In a land based aircraft it's not a big deal because the engine will run for a while even with a shot up radiator or a bullet hole in the block, however it's a much bigger problem when you overheat the engine on the way back to the carrier and her is nowhere else to land it.
Fun fact. There is a small Franklin Automobile Museum in Tucson, Arizona. Also after the years of building automobiles, the company ventured into building engines for aircraft. Still used in several different classic aircraft. A very well built engine.
Yes! That's right! Thank you for reminding us.
I first want to acknowledge the incredible camera and sound setup in the this video, well done! Mr Moffat's knowledge of these cars is outstanding - thank you sir for sharing. A personal story - my mentor in my career was also a car guy. One metaphor he used was the Franklin, and the change in style to conform, as an example of human nature. I find the engineering and style captivating - thank you both again for teaching me more. Have a great week, God bless ~ Chuck
Stunning cars! Thank you Roger for sharing your vast knowledge of their history!
My friends, late father-in-law fully restored a 1927 Franklin years and years ago to perfection. Oddly enough, it was owned by my neighbor many years before that. Either way when he passed away, the family doesn’t know what to do with the car. I wish they would donate it to the museum. It would be a terrific addition to this collection.
He asked what sort of customer bought Franklins. They had a lot of appeal to the technical man, such as an engineer, scientist, or someone who could appreciate the unusual design. Aviator Charles Lindbergh was a Franklin owner and so were others in aviation, the engine had a lot in common with the air cooled aircraft engines of the day.
They really shone on long trips. The smooth suspension and well balanced chassis meant you could cover a lot of ground in a day, more than other cars with more horsepower and higher top speed. They were also quite economical on fuel.
Thanks for adding that! Yep.
Franklin cars set a number of long distance records from the earliest days to their end. In 1903 a Winton car crossed the USA in 66 days. in 1904 a 4 cylinder Franklin cut that in half to 33 days. 2 years later a 6 cylinder Franklin had it down to 15 days.
By the late 1920s Cannonball Baker set several cross country records in Franklins with the time now down under 3 days, including a "there and back trip" of a bit over 6 days.
As a technical man myself, I would not have thought so. Air cooling in aircraft has advantages not applicable to cars - less weight, and in miliary aircraft, and enemy bullet in any part of the cooling system means you don't get home. There is no need for a diirty great fan, because there already is one - the propellor. And the air at aircraft cruising height is very cold and substantially independent of climatic region or weather.
Saying that a technical man would prefer an air cooled car because aircraft engines are aircooled is much like saying you don't want an accelerator pump in the carby because aircraft carbies don't have them. Or you don't want vacuum advance because aircraft don't have that.
@@keithammleter3824
• The Franklin engine had quite a few fewer parts than a water cooled engine, so less things to go wrong.
• Advances in fan design meant that by the end of Franklin production the "dirty great fan" was using about 4hp out the engine's 100hp to move the air needed at full power/speed.
• In the days before antifreeze, Franklin owners didn't have to drain their car overnight and refill in the morning or keep it warm in winter, and didn't suffer boiling over problems in summer - as long as the fan was turning (i.e. the engine was turning because the fan was mounted to the crankshaft) it was sufficiently cooling the engine.
• A Franklin was driven for 24 hours in low gear in Death Valley without problems.
@@RogerMoffat From an early Franklin ad "the only moving part in the Franklin cooling system is the flywheel, and since every engine must have a flywheel to run, it is evident that the limit of simplicity has been reached".
By the way it wasn't just the engine that was innovative. The full elliptic springing on all 4 wheels, wooden chassis rails and precise steering gave superior ride and handling.
Hi Paul! Thanks for the in-depth tour of the Franklin Museum! Those were such cool and interesting cars! They are also pretty big too! Saw one at a car auction that had the horse collar grille. Had the wooden chassis too, which was totally amazing! I bet they rode pretty nice with the added flexibility and dampening qualities of the wooden chassis rails. Have a great day!
Never realized they were air-cooled, so interesting!
I remember visiting the Franklin museum during the brief time it was housed in Arizona. They used to have an even older car on display, I believe a 1903. The engine had an unusual feature in that the pushrods for the exhaust valves passed through the exhaust manifold at the top, with the top end of the pushrod sticking out of the top of each exhaust pipe just where it exited the cylinder head. The 1905 engine shown here doesn't share that incredible feature.
The museum is still in Tucson. It is a separate organization from the one in this video.
I have the privilege of living about 20 minutes from the Gilmore Car Museum, and it's a fantastic place. I've been a member for several years, and it's always worth the visit. They also do a Ford Model T driving school that's tons of fun. Thanks for a great video!
While I knew Franklin’s were air cooled that’s all I knew about them, cool and informative video.
Even water cooled cars are Air Cooled, if there wasn't air being pushed through a radiator, the engine would overheat. Enjoyed the interesting video !!
That's a good point!
That's why at least some Franklin advertising called it "direct air cooling".
Exactly. Really the only thing that separates the two is one is externally cooled and the other is internally cooled. And speaking of cool, those are the coolest automobiles I've ever seen!
I've had the pleasure to visit the Franklin Museum and the cars are truly stunning.
It's amazing, isn't it? Thanks Rick!
Always loved the Franklin. Thanks both for sharing these gems.
Fascinating! I learned a great deal about Franklin cars.
Thank you 😊.
Absolutely beautiful cars, and thank you so much for treating us to them! Being an engineer with a background in thermodynamics, and also a former race engine builder, I'll take a shot at the reason why all cars are not air cooled. There are benefits and drawbacks to both designs, and I'll sometimes jokingly put my finger out the window of our VW and say "Yep, lots of coolant!". In short though; Liquid is simply more dense and can carry more BTU's of heat away from a surface, then pass it off to a radiator with a much greater surface area than cylinder fins. The more power an engine produces, the less appropriate air cooling becomes. This is why the "supercharged" Franklin only used mild pressure to improve intake flow to the carb, rather than running a sealed high pressure system that would produce more heat than the fins could dissipate.
Now that that's out of the way, we own and thoroughly enjoy both types, and the engine in our Karmann Ghia has been both fun and dead reliable for fourteen years. Oh, and the heat works too!
By the way, Paul's reference to the PT Cruiser was funny and valid. You open the door, and you have a space you can step on, but few people do. No shame in the comparison, as contrary to common belief, the PT Cruiser is actually a very functional and comfortable car, and I can tell you first hand that it is better built than a Honda Civic.
I agree with every word you just shared. And, as a fellow engineer (electrical), I believe your explanation for liquid cooling is spot on. Love those Ghias!! Wish I could ride in one.
Well, I learned a lot about the Franklin Museum and vehicles. Thanks for sharing Model A Guy!!
You're welcome Pat!
What a really neat car museum, those Franklin's are very very special. Having an air cooled car never entered my thoughts, stunning cars for sure. Thanks Paul, I hope you have a great weekend!
Thank you Dan!
Stunning cars. Another must visit museum.
Live in Kalamazoo, been here many times, great to hear Roger and history.
Thank you Paul! Great information from an expert on Franklins for sure!
Glad you liked it!
Great video as always 👍
Thanks Paul for sharing!
Wow! If I drove a Franklin like I dive my “A” it would take twice a as long to drive the Lincoln Highway if I had to stop every 100 mile to take the cover off and oil it down.
What a beautiful car and the neat engineering.
See down country Road!
Steve
Yes! I'm pretty sure that's why Ford would never fo that route.
"GO" not "fo". Drat.
@@ModelA You can blame your typo on your manly gorilla grip hands and fangers. oops! Fingers!
Hhhahahahaaaa!!!!
@@ModelA So glad I could give you a laugh! Someone once said that laughter is the best medicine!
I'll take my laughing pills now, please.
I've only made it to the Gilmore a couple of times, but I spent a LOT of time in both the Franklin and Pierce-Arrow buildings. Also dallied around the Tucker a lot, because Tucker. Great video, Paul!
I always wonder what Tucker would look like today if it survived
@@ModelA I always wondered what the Tucker Carioça looked like. It wss purportedly a prototype he was working on in South America when he died. I don't remember if a prototype was actually made or it never made it past the sketch phase. Loved the flick though, even if it took a few creative liberties...
Great video! I would encourage you to continue to show what other car manufacturers were offering at the same period as the Model A. It gives insights into why Ford did what he did, shows other solutions to similar automotive problems at that time and puts perspective on how diverse the marketplace was back then. Thanks Again!
I agree. Thank you!
Wow, those are very nice cars. Thanks for the tour, Paul. It's sad that they need to sell that car, but maybe they need the money to keep things going.
I agree with you. I think it has more to do with their mission than current economic needs
Paul what great video I learn some more about Franklin.
Glad you enjoyed it!
the 1931 green & black "concept" cars inside steps were copied by Chevrolet trucks (1955-59). When they went from running boards to inside steps. Except, about a 1/4 century earlier! This was an amazing episode & Tina does an exceptional job filming! Kudos Tina
You got it! They are really neat. Zack Pradel from the TH-cam channel Shooting Cars was on camera duty this time
Ahh cowl induction then. Very cool of you to show off these forgotten wonders. Ill have to stop by there if I ever get out that way
If you do, you won't regret it!
Thanks for sharing the video. Very enjoyable. Have a great week.
Thanks Paul
A blast from the past.
I’ve ridden air cooled motorcycles most of my life and never had any problems with them.
On the other hand, there is the Volkswagen. When Beetles and Combis were common, it was quite normal to hear them running rough and popping and banging going down hills, as the engines overheated and ruined their exhaust valves.
I'm not a fan of Frankin's per say, even though they are gorgeous...
but I'm a huge fan of spoked wheels
This poor girl can't afford an antique sportscar, so thank goodness for gorgeous motorcycles with gorgeous chrome spokes.
Understood. FYI- Fonzie's (Happy Days TV show) motorcycle is at the Gilmore. The spokes are purposely dulled down, I guess to keep camera glare down.
Orville Wright drove a Franklin. Also, the Stinson Voyager designed in the late 1930s used a Franklin aircraft engine. General aviation engines of today, made by Lycoming and Continental, are all air cooled.
Franklin Aircraft engines are still being made in Poland.
Tucker, of Tucker Cars fame bought the company to provide the engines for the Tucker automobile, but insisted they be water cooled, but the design was a Franklin Engines flat 6 cylinder layout just with water jackets.
Many kudos to the people who produced this informative tour. I thought I knew quite a bit of automotive history etc. But a number of mechanical features were completely new to me. Which is a good thing. 🚗✌️
Wow awesome video Paul. Those cars are gorgeous. Franklin was one of several luxury brands that were taken out by the Great Depression.
Interesting to see the ideas that were tried out.
I love the cameo of Jay Leno ❤ in the background
That was Jay Leno talking about Franklins. That guy knows so much about so many different cars, wow.
Good channel, new sub. I’m sorta all ‘car’d out’ but this channel is unique enough and good quality… to subscribe🎉
I'm glad you found it unique! Thank you.
Air cooling makes for rather poor temperature regulation, and with the primitive oils and metallurgy of 100 years ago, the chronic high temperatures would burn up the rings. JonathanW on TH-cam found a Franklin with burned up rings and half the pistons had already been replaced.
Good an answer as any. Thank you!
I've been to the Gilmore Car Museum, which isn't far from Battle Creek, where I lived for years, about a half hour away.
Paul that PT Cruiser comment!
Well..... Right??
I'm glad you did this video. The Franklin was priced more like Oldsmobile or Hudson I think. Buicks and Cadillacs would have been quite a bit more in 1930
Interesting! Thanks
I so want a Franklin! I know where a 1922 model is, but I just can't afford it! They are just neat. The wood frame was supposed to make them feel like you were floating on air! I LOVE the background music in this video! I post my 1920s music on my roybo1930 site!
Thanks! The music is perfect, right? Do you have a link you could share?
Thank you Paul.
Great video 📹 👍
Thank you! I'm glad you liked it.
It's amazing that they even went through the troubles of making the fake radiator a honeycomb pattern.
Try and find a radiator shop that'd build you a Real Honeycomb rad today - and back then they did it for show!
Electric cars these days have fake radiator grilles, but nowhere near as detailed as the Franklin prop. Wild times!
Could we even afford a new honeycomb radiator made today?
@@ModelA Nope, no, we couldn't xD
Loved the video. Great information. Thanks for posting.
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
@@ModelA Absolutely!
I'm a bit surprised the Franklin Museum is in Michigan and not in Syracuse, NY where they were built. Along with the aircraft engines and Tucker engines that existed until the 70s when the tooling was sent to Eastern Europe.
Paul, i love what you do. while model A's tie for second place on my list of "fovorite areas" (they tie with the post war cars up to 1957) the top of my car pryamid is the fat fendered cars from 1935 to 41. I hate horeses, so Henery Ford is hero of mine. I just wanted to say i have watched many of your vids and thanks for what you do.
Thanks, I appreciate that!
The Franklin was made in Syracuse N.Y.
Made in USA! Unlike today...
But the title question didn't get an answer! Why aren't all cars air cooled?
I don't know. That's why I asked. Lots of people have added comments about their theories.
To answer the thumbnail, the same liquid cooled motor will have twice the power installed in a boat with the unlimited cooling available using the lake water.
Air cooling is hard or impossible with the power we can get from the gasoline these days. These cars, although super neat and beautiful are not very powerful. Low power equals low amounts of heat to disperse.
You are correct!
Actually, its just the opposite. Those early car engines had low power output because they were inefficient, due to low compression ratios and small diameter valves. So, a greater portion of the combustion heat was lost through the cylinder walls and heads instead of being converted into mechanical power.
That's why radiators have remained about the same size or got smaller, even though power output has substantially increased.
I was told some years ago, that emission control was at least partially dependent on engine temperature stability and that water cooling was superior in that regard.
Awesome museum!!I live about an hour away and go at least once a year. Peterson museum in LA is nice but nothing like the Gilmore. The Gilmore draws you in no doubt.
So cool! I wish I was closer
Great video!
Thank you! I'm glad you liked it.
My grandfather worked for Franklin! I wonder if he got the idea of buying a Wolks Wagon Beatle from his work
You can bet that was why
Fantastic!
"predecessor of what became the PT cruiser" . That should have been edited out. Where did that come from ? That's the most bizarre comparison I ever heard. "Predecessor of the Vega" would not have been less appropriate.
Because PT Cruisers had running boards that were concealed by the doors, just like this car. Care to chastise me for anything else?
GM experimented with the so-called "Copper Cooled Engine" which had a copper heatsink and was air cooled. As much trouble as water cooling was (these were the days before ethylene glycol) "copper cooling" didn't work and was abandoned. The book "My Years at General Motors" goes into great detail of the early days.
That's fascinating, I'll have to check that book out! Thank you Henry.
@@ModelA It's by Alfred P. Sloan who basically invented the modern corporation.
Copy that
I had a 1966 VW bug in high school. In winter it was a very Cold ride!
Haha! I rode in a VW beetle one winter. It was miserable!!
6 volt to boot. Hard starts in winter.
There is a Franklin museum in Norwich N.Y.Northeast Classic Car Museum that has the largest collection of Franklins in the world.About 50 miles from Syracuse.
Sweeeeet
There is another Franklin museum in Tucson.
Yep!
Learned a lot of new things today! These cars are so interesting; that valve on valve concept is WILD! Also the air flow concepts for cooling are fascinating. In the end only a few air cooled manufacturers were really successful. Off the top of my head Citroen, Fiat, BMW, Messerschmitt, Tucker, Chevrolet, VW and Porsche all used air cooled technology in cars but in the end VW and ultimately Porsche were really successful with Porsche taking the technology as far as it could go; they had to go fluid cooled eventually. That ‘31 model with the golf club compartments would be the perfect present for President Trump 🤣
If it were able to stop bullets, then it would be perfect!
@@ModelA Got that right 🤣👍
The VW and Porsche designs were basically stolen from Tatra during WW2; Tatra wrote the book (literally) on air cooled car and bike engines, and came up with a rear engined V8 that was very advanced for its time. BMW developed the most successful air cooled radial engine for aircraft in WW2, then with the exception of the 700, forgot all about it. They bought the Isetta design.
Other major manufacturers were Trabant, Panhard, NSU and DAF.
The Citroen GSA was produced until 1986, the Porsche 993 until 1998, and the VW until 2003.
@@EbenBransome Trabant, DAF - cars made as cheap and nasty as possible when economic conditions meant people could not afford a proper car. NSU - absolute junk. The Porsche was air-cooled because it is basically an upmarket VW Beetle - retaining air cooling saved a heck of a lot of money.
@@keithammleter3824 I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Slagging companies off doesn't contribute anything other than a sour taste.
Also, aircraft builders used to often snag Franlin Engines....
Franklin became Republic Aviation and built helicopter engines during WWII. Tucker bought it for his cars and owned it until 1961 when it became Aero Industries and finally closed in 1975. A friend had a Stinson airplane with a Franklin engine.
Why aren't all cars air cooled? Simple.....
1....unreliable.
2.....no heating capability in the winter.
3.....overheating in hot climates.
4.....requires excessive maintenance.
Thank you.
You are wrong on every point there 😂😂😂😂😂
@technobubble1 you clearly don't live in a state that's constantly over 100. Or a state that sees sub freezing temperatures. That's why you're wrong. Cause if I was wrong....we wouldn't have the complexity of liquid cooling in our vehicles. Manufacturers would build your cars cheap to maximize their profits.
Thanks a ton for this.
You're welcome!
Not bad ⚡️
Why is there a Franklin museum in Michigan, but not in Syracuse (where they were made), perhaps somewhere near, I dunno, maybe Franklin square? There IS a museum which has a lot of Franklins just south of Canajoharie, but that's still quite a way from Syracuse...
Why aren't all cars air-cooled? There's no answer in the video, but I believe it's because with liquid cooling the engine makes less noise, cylinder temperature can be regulated resulting in slightly better efficiency and a small part of the massive energy waste inherent to the combustion engine can be recuperated for heating and defrosting the windshield.
Right. VW engines were air cooled and the cabin heaters relied upon ducting air around the exhaust pipes. This didn't give much heat and the smallest leak would feed exhaust fumes into the cabin.
@@TerryClarkAccordioncrazy Didn't some VW's come with gasoline-powered heaters for instant heat?
To answer the video topic question, air cooled engines struggle to attain high horsepower w/o overheating. Motorcycles rely on the blast of air from the forward motion. High performance cars with a rear engine like the Porsche 911 rely on a horsepower sapping fan. Even fighter planes, with all that 300 mph air for cooling went water cooled during the 1930's.
And in cars, very difficult to get heat into the passenger compartment. The original Corvair had an actual gasoline fired mini-furnace to do that. The good news is that one had instant heat. The bad news was that fuel mileage dropped a lot.
I wonder why Franklin tried to even out the cooling between cylinders.
Roger sounds like a New Zealander
Well Done - Roger is a New Zealander 🙃
Nice video, but it didn't answer your question in the title.
Veru cool!
I'll stay with the model A
Excellent job Paul. They are very interesting cars. Too bad another company victim from the Great Depression.
Yes. I wonder what a Franklin would look like today if they had survived
Hey Paul! First off, your channel is the best! I was hoping you could actually help me with my Model A. Up until recently, it had been running great, yet when we went to start it, the engine would turn over slowly, very slowly, about 4 times before it started. Now it won’t start. When I engage the starter pedal, the engine turns about an inch, then stops. We checked the battery and it’s great, checked if it was getting sparks and it was. When the starter pedal is pushed in, you hear it engage, but nothing turns. Hoping you could bestow your wisdom on me and help me out! Just got into the Model A hobby and this is just bugging me! Thanks
Hey Hogie!! First, do you have the engine pans installed? If not, run a battery cable size wire from one of the flywheel housing bolts directly to the battery or the frame. Next is the starter could be tired. They can be rebuilt.
@@ModelA Our coupe does have the pans, but will figure out a way to do so. After watching some videos, I also think the starter needs to be replaced. Thanks so much!
Fellow roadkill fan!
YES!! My brother!!
Fun video. Did not answer the clickbait question though. Why aren't all cars air cooled?
Yes it did. One reason- do you want to have to manually oil the valve train every 500 miles?
@@ModelA - being air-cooled and manually oiling the valve train are not linked by necessity - they are 2 separate choices. Later Franklins did have lubrication up to the upper cylinders from the oil pump, but all Franklins that had enclosed valve trains did have large felt pads to hold the oil near the rockers (which Franklin actually called "walking beams">)
@@RogerMoffat Exactly. Look at the Volkswagen Beetle - air cooled but you don't have to stop and oil it every 500 miles.
Air cooled motocycle engines were dominant for 100 years - and you don't have to stop and oil every 500 miles on them either.
Claiming it because you have to manually oil it is ridiculous.
Cars are almost entirely liquid cooled because it stops variation in cylinder temperature with accelerator position, keeping clearance optimum and reducing wear. It allows tight control over temperature via the thermstat, which considerably reduces wear and means the same oil viscosity can be used regardless of weather.
Paul, do you have any videos of your ham rig?
No, sorry man
All the Franklins I have seen, have aluminum bodies, Stromberg brass carburetors, and oak frames.
Paul you need A Franklin ?
Ummm.... No
Was it Franklin that got bought by Tucker for it’s air cooled horizontally opposed 6 cylinder helicopter engine, that Tucker converted to liquid cooled? Later I think it got purchased by Poland for it’s aircraft engine business & is apparently still going. Well that is unless I’ve got them mixed up with another mob?
I think you're right
Yes - Tucker bought the Air Cooled Motors company to get control of the engines they bought. But Tucker insisted that the engine has to be water cooled, so the Air-Cooled Motors company deviated from their norm to make that flat 6 cylinder engine for Tucker. The Franklin Club has a number of letters between Tucker and Air Cooled Motors where this was discussed. (the letters are currently not available publicly).
And yes, the Air Cooled Motors/Franklin name lives on in Poland.
Tiny Jay Leno spotting between 5:20 and 5:55.
Where any of those cars from the Harrah's collection?
air cooled only works on 4 cylinder engines and preferable 2 opposed because the cylinders in the back over heat and sieze up. It happened all the time on Volkswagens and Porches.
What happens when the mouse nests fill up the fins?
Do you prefer your mouse meat rare or well done?
For my friend's 1927 Franklin, I did some welding and machine work on one of those air cooled pistons. It involved welding up the aluminum piston ring grooves and re-cutting them on the lathe. Link if you are interested.
th-cam.com/video/CRSRPLQWyfM/w-d-xo.html
One word. Tooling.
+ Every operation costs more for someone to turn the screws and nuts.
If you ever worked on a Corvair engine and Chevy I-6 230?
The parts count is less on the I-6. Both engines do one thing well.
They last too long.
Oh, PT Cruiser comparison! You're bad...so bad!
I have a cat named Franklin. That's about as close as I'll get to Franklin ownership.
Excellent. What kind of cat?
The VW Beetles, and vans, and other models they produced, (until recently) were all air cooled. I think it is possible to go back to air cooled engines, in gasoline fueled vehicles.
I agree
You could but, the problem is you can't run them as lean as you can a water cooled car. They won't pass current smog laws.
@@brettmacdonald6777 Really? how do motorcycles pass smog laws? Hundreds , maybe millions own old VWs. I bet there is a work-around. Smog laws are meant to be broken. Keep your head down, and nobody needs to know. I'd rather break a law and ask for forgiveness, that seek proper authorization.
@@Davett53 Yes scooters have smog laws but they are different than car ones. Many bikes went to water cooled. Smog laws are meant to be broken but mother nature is tougher than an idiot politician. Air cooled needs to run fat to keep the temps down. Lean it out where internal combustion is most effective and you accelerate the failure process greatly.
@@brettmacdonald6777 I was surprised when I purchased my 1985 Honda scooter, that it was water cooled. Such a tiny radiator. It made sense the engine was enclosed in a plastic fairing.
I wonder why the franklin company is not still in business?
They are, technically. Some employees spun off the company to build aircraft engines after it went under, and the Franklin name and business is still making engines in Poland. Tucker briefly owned the engine company to supply flat sixes for his car, but after that failed they went back to aircraft engine production.
Franklin failed due to a combination of things, expansion of production that was expected prior to the stock market crash of 1929 put them in financial stress, in conjunction with them producing higher end cars with high price tags. Unlike bigger makers like Ford and GM, Franklin had no extra cash to work with through the depression being a small manufacturer, and they lacked diversification. They had attempted to make a lower priced car before the late 20s, but scrapped the concept as they felt it couldn't be done to the level of quality they wanted for around $1000. Lots of small makers went under after the depression, especially luxury car makers; Franklin sadly was not different.
@@Eclec-Tronics OKay thank you
In short: air-cooling a car brings m ore issues than it solves.
yep
Is the museum in financial trouble? Why else would they sell a car?
They need space and always need funding
Air cooled engines run at roughly double (
A lot of motorcycles remain air cooled despite these problems.
Air cooled motorcycles wear out much faster than their water cooled counterparts: Probably double the rate... maybe more.
🙂
That's likely the answer. Thank you!!
VW air cooled engines run at 76 to 79ºC depending on ambient temperature and choice of thermostat. Water cooled engines run at 82 to 90ºC depending on thermostat.
Actually all cars are air cooled. The water in water cooled cars is cooled by airflow through the radiator.
Technically, yes.
I wish they were, because water cooling swcks.
After years of having wonderful air cooled motorcycles, I finally ended up with a water cooled motorcycle... and I'm like.. why
Agree. Water cooling on a motorcycle just seems goofy. Must be a big road bike.
Why? Simple, air cooled engines run much hotter then water cooled engines. Where an water cooled engine runs around 180 degrees depending upon the thermostat you use, an air cooled engine runs around 400 degrees. First problem is detonation air cooled engines generally have much lower compression and or boost because due to the much higher temperatures they will detonate much sooner than a water cooled engine, this results in lower HP and fuel efficiency. Next problem with hotter temperatures is shorter life air cooled engines don't last as long as water cooled engine. Now let's talk about the next problem with air cooled engines, power density. Air cooling is not nearly as effective as water cooling at removing heat and the space to cool the cylinder is limited. You can easily add a bigger radiator however it's not so easy to add more fins to a cylinder when it's up against other cylinders. You will find air cooled engines have a lower HP to CI ratio then water cooled engines. About the only places air cooled engines make sense is in aircraft where there is an abundance of fast moving very cold air and minimizing weight is important, or in power equipment like mowers and saws where you want to minimize weight and they run in an extremely dirty environment where a radiator would get clogged frequently. An air cooled car engine is a terrible idea. Look at the most common air cooled cars the VWs, Porsches. and the Corvairs these engines were severely underpowered, didn't last long, and your options to increase power were severely limited by overheating. In the case of the air cooled Porsches these things were running at the absolute cooling limit, I owned one and if you got stuck in traffic it would overheat. It needed to be moving at least 40 mph to not overheat. The car was a dog as far as power was concerned, however it handled like it was on rails. Any attempt to increase the power results in overheating. Air cooling is an inferior method of cooling anything from a computer chip to an engine, however it's simpler, often cheaper, and less susceptible to damage. This is why the Navy liked air cooled radials, they could get pretty badly shot up and keep going where a liquid cooled engine could be put out of action by a single bullet hole. In a land based aircraft it's not a big deal because the engine will run for a while even with a shot up radiator or a bullet hole in the block, however it's a much bigger problem when you overheat the engine on the way back to the carrier and her is nowhere else to land it.
That is a SOLID explanation! Thank you!!
All cars are ultimately air cooled.
Because liquid cooling is superior.
Why has the Chairman got an Australian accent ?
Makes him sound much more interesting.