00:04 Discussing Liquid's struggles with Ultimate 02:16 Liquid struggles to break the glass ceiling 06:12 Team Liquid struggling on T side 08:09 Ultimate's aggressive playstyle impacting Liquid's performance 12:09 Ultimate and the lack of depth in aggressive play 13:56 Aggressive playstyle impact on top tier teams 17:36 Ultimate's aggressive playstyle and role balance in Liquid 19:16 Liquid's role composition may not be optimal. 22:31 Aggressive playstyle vulnerability in Liquid 24:13 Liquid's strategic discoordination must change to compete with top teams 27:43 Importance of game plans and experience for an IGL 29:22 Debate on Liquid's system being a yukar or Liquid problem 32:43 Gla1ve and kassad can fix them before the major 34:12 Team Liquid's performance is meeting expectations 37:35 Liquid struggling with individual performances 39:16 Concerns about Ultimates being found out 43:00 Ultimate's strategic usage crucial for Liquid's success 44:37 Ultimate may struggle with consistency 47:53 Ultimate needs to adapt to different roles to avoid becoming a support player 49:33 Ultimate needs to make disincentivizing plays for aggressive riflers 53:06 Issues with Twist and Yekindar in Liquid 54:59 Team needs aggressive lurker like nuts or kuk 58:17 Suggesting hookie over jks for Liquid improvement 1:00:12 Potential solution for Liquid's issues 1:03:25 Discussion on roles and roster changes in Liquid 1:05:11 Importance of in-game leader in anchor spots 1:08:43 Challenges faced by Twist as an IGL 1:10:14 Discussion on potential future podcast guests fitonear.com
Between the LFN podcast network, Overtime on Inferno, Techgirl and many of the other podcasts and CS content creators, this is the golden age of CS content.
Gotta agree with Anna and Linda. Your videos are always so deep, sincere, and heartfelt. Thank you nothe & nero For real though exited about what youre cooking here
Honestly ultimate's aggressiveness being pointed out as compensation for the riflers passiveness is kind of crazy, considering kekindar holds w like its his defuse key, but I think twistzz should stay calling, he's had sparks of being pretty good and is still able to put up numbers which shows his skill and calling on top of that to a relatively good degree is crazy. -NAF -ultimate -jks -twistzz -kekindar +Aleksib +jL +w0nderful +iM +b1t
I think people underestimate how long the drop off in performance takes when you become igl. It doesn't happen overnight, which I think is part of the reason lots of people trying IGL'ing have it work out in the start and then fall off
i do agree the point that the only teams they lose against are always the same teams and all are top teams. They still manage to put up a fight even when they are having a bad day.
If I'm not wrong then I think since Yekindar failing to entry properly, someone had to step and Ultimate was exactly doing that for a while. Resulted his plays more predictable by opponents. Even tho I've watching this team gor years, I still don't know what is the problem or the solution is. They made a roster change almost every half season yet to lift a trophy. This team cursed.😢
Problem with -jks +igl would be role clash on ct side with naf or not? Because naf plays the small site, typically igl-anchor spots (mir B, inf B, anc B, anu B) and not the typical ropz/jks big site anchor spots (mir A, inf pit, anc A, anu A)
Because YEKI has always been an aggressive lurk & a lone wolf space creation, not a raw entry. I think the initial solution is to get a raw entry fragger and let NAF backfill in for YEKI's T-Side Active lurk roles because he is a rat at finding active timings and has good skill. Notes: That opening T-Side graph would have looked better if the teams were compared against the map averages of the maps they play most. Also important to note, jks and NAF traditionally excel in different roles on CT side but I agree jks is not performing in roles that NAF would excel in on T side (Nuke Lobby Lurk).
Am I going crazy in thinking that JKS has started playing a lot more aggresive roles on both CT and T side.. The eye test for me he is in the mix and dying a lot more early round after getting 1 and done?
Ancient is prime example.. hes in Mid on CT and hes Mid most of the time on T... A site on Anubus but pushing A main a lot more than he should.. T side hes working A site as well mostly going first in when the execute...
woah, great hosts. this is going to be a good podcast. Harry and Nohte crushed on their takes. Banger point around 20 mins by harry about liquid. Voo was fine but just couldn’t keep up, shame
Great content! What I would like to see improved: difficult not to notice but difficult to describe, it's not only video quality, voo's webcam is f in sharp, warm, and pleasant to look at. Richer scenery behind? Not my area of expertise, really.
I think the team needs more time, a lot more time. It's a team with a completely new IGL and awper. They still are a top 8 team which ideally should make the playoffs of the coming major. Just because Liquid is a big brand, one shouldn't expect them to always be title contenders.
No offense I have studied demos of liquid and Yekindar blows so many rounds by mashing the W key and hes way to aggressive and more stupid with his aggression than ultimate. Yekindar needs to be a entry that hes paid for. also Liquid needs more teamwork, flashes and planned attacks they seem to have no strats other than defaults. -ultimate + s1mple/ultimate/sunpayus -Yekindar +kyusoke entry.. let twistzz call. Then you have 3 aggressive players and 2 lurkers. Not to bash JKS but hes not a star player or star lurker. Hes a average top player, you can even keep ultimate and replace Yekindar with hooxi and pick up kyusoke for JKS
The problem with Liquid is that the roster itself is broken down to the core if it wants to win events. 1. They don’t have the skill to be a pug team (G2) 2. They don’t have the teamplay or long term synergy to win close games (Faze, Vitality, Mouz) 3. They don’t have a good enough star rifle to base the game around them (Spirit, EF) 4. They don’t have good enough communication (because their international technically) to be based on strategies (Furia, COL, VP, Mongolz) The team is fundamentally broken and can’t work in any of these contexts unless you change at least two players.
Realistically if u were to just "upgrade" ur way out of this without fixing stylistic issues theres 2 paths while keeping this core. -Ultimate, - Yekindar/JKS +Xantares/NertZ, +SunPayus Ín this iteration either JKS or Twistzz has to step up and take more opening attempts. If not Twistzz igl angle its just; -Yekindar; +Hooxi/Gla1ve Xantares prolly not available but hey if they wanna break their bank completely go for it. Also Can people stop doing the weird thing of acting like the second you get picked up by a tier 1 org, your supposed to instantly be a tier 1 player. Most players arent. So teach the guy tier 1 cs.
The problem is that having one of your best players be IGL and play star positions means everyone else has to be stable in their positions (that’s why Mongolz/Pain have capped out) and because yekindar is playing badly (similar to how Spinx early on was playing badly), they either A. Have to change the style (similar to vitality) or B. Swapping Yekindar for a better aggro rifle.
i dont doubt that twistzz can be a great igl, but watching their rounds play out, they're so slow getting anything done and it's more and more easy to ready what they''re doing. They definitely can be one of the top teams in the world. Like watching some of their demos, they should be easily see the issues, but they dont. They should pick up an experienced IGL and drop yekindar. Get twistzz doing entries. Ultimate is young and not as experienced in tier1. Will take a bit of time for him to learn the right times to be aggressive and when not to.
The anti-rolecel propaganda has gone too far. It is true that roles aren't necessarily well defined and that not every team needs to have all the same roles. But for a team to be any good, it needs to have either *players that fit the roles* or *roles that fit the players.* Liquid has neither.
voo vs the comment section is the greatest esports rivalry ever
Idk Richard Lewis Vs Reddit is pretty hype
literally just -yekindar +hooxi
give ultimate few more months see how he performs in hooxi's system
I just got whiplash seeing a +hooxi on my screen just now, I'm so used to seeing -hooxi for months before Snax replaced him
I like the title of this series, very HLTV forum-esque
Meds
Kyousuke
- iM
+ iM
Kyousuke
savage1337
Really happy to get long form content out of nohte and nero, just like i requested not too long ago!
Please keep this going. Loved every second of the show! We need more long content
00:04 Discussing Liquid's struggles with Ultimate
02:16 Liquid struggles to break the glass ceiling
06:12 Team Liquid struggling on T side
08:09 Ultimate's aggressive playstyle impacting Liquid's performance
12:09 Ultimate and the lack of depth in aggressive play
13:56 Aggressive playstyle impact on top tier teams
17:36 Ultimate's aggressive playstyle and role balance in Liquid
19:16 Liquid's role composition may not be optimal.
22:31 Aggressive playstyle vulnerability in Liquid
24:13 Liquid's strategic discoordination must change to compete with top teams
27:43 Importance of game plans and experience for an IGL
29:22 Debate on Liquid's system being a yukar or Liquid problem
32:43 Gla1ve and kassad can fix them before the major
34:12 Team Liquid's performance is meeting expectations
37:35 Liquid struggling with individual performances
39:16 Concerns about Ultimates being found out
43:00 Ultimate's strategic usage crucial for Liquid's success
44:37 Ultimate may struggle with consistency
47:53 Ultimate needs to adapt to different roles to avoid becoming a support player
49:33 Ultimate needs to make disincentivizing plays for aggressive riflers
53:06 Issues with Twist and Yekindar in Liquid
54:59 Team needs aggressive lurker like nuts or kuk
58:17 Suggesting hookie over jks for Liquid improvement
1:00:12 Potential solution for Liquid's issues
1:03:25 Discussion on roles and roster changes in Liquid
1:05:11 Importance of in-game leader in anchor spots
1:08:43 Challenges faced by Twist as an IGL
1:10:14 Discussion on potential future podcast guests
fitonear.com
Between the LFN podcast network, Overtime on Inferno, Techgirl and many of the other podcasts and CS content creators, this is the golden age of CS content.
Gotta agree with Anna and Linda. Your videos are always so deep, sincere, and heartfelt. Thank you nothe & nero
For real though exited about what youre cooking here
Honestly ultimate's aggressiveness being pointed out as compensation for the riflers passiveness is kind of crazy, considering kekindar holds w like its his defuse key, but I think twistzz should stay calling, he's had sparks of being pretty good and is still able to put up numbers which shows his skill and calling on top of that to a relatively good degree is crazy.
-NAF -ultimate -jks -twistzz -kekindar +Aleksib +jL +w0nderful +iM +b1t
I think people underestimate how long the drop off in performance takes when you become igl. It doesn't happen overnight, which I think is part of the reason lots of people trying IGL'ing have it work out in the start and then fall off
The concept seems similar to Feed The Trolls, which isn't a bad thing. Would love to see it posted to the HLTV Confirmed Spotify channel too
This was great, Is there any chance the podcast is gonna come to other platforms like Spotify etc?
Only a few minutes in and really enjoying it! Would love to see this be uploaded to Spotify if the series continues!
Awesome stuff! More to listen to while im at work
i do agree the point that the only teams they lose against are always the same teams and all are top teams. They still manage to put up a fight even when they are having a bad day.
good map 1, shocking map 2, lost a decent map 3, the liquid way.
Will this be on other podcast platforms?
Nice. Gonna be on YT Music as an podcast (just put in the playlist designated as a podcast under Come here)?
Done, thank you for the reminder!
Spotify?
Spotify When?
If I'm not wrong then I think since Yekindar failing to entry properly, someone had to step and Ultimate was exactly doing that for a while. Resulted his plays more predictable by opponents. Even tho I've watching this team gor years, I still don't know what is the problem or the solution is. They made a roster change almost every half season yet to lift a trophy. This team cursed.😢
just played with nohte in a retake. nice guy! good podcast!
Problem with -jks +igl would be role clash on ct side with naf or not? Because naf plays the small site, typically igl-anchor spots (mir B, inf B, anc B, anu B) and not the typical ropz/jks big site anchor spots (mir A, inf pit, anc A, anu A)
Streets been hungry for this
something's up with voo's mic settings, there's a lot of lip smacking/small weird noises coming through
Need more of this!
exciting content!
Awesome. Could you make this available on Spotify please?
Because YEKI has always been an aggressive lurk & a lone wolf space creation, not a raw entry. I think the initial solution is to get a raw entry fragger and let NAF backfill in for YEKI's T-Side Active lurk roles because he is a rat at finding active timings and has good skill.
Notes:
That opening T-Side graph would have looked better if the teams were compared against the map averages of the maps they play most.
Also important to note, jks and NAF traditionally excel in different roles on CT side but I agree jks is not performing in roles that NAF would excel in on T side (Nuke Lobby Lurk).
Am I going crazy in thinking that JKS has started playing a lot more aggresive roles on both CT and T side.. The eye test for me he is in the mix and dying a lot more early round after getting 1 and done?
Ancient is prime example.. hes in Mid on CT and hes Mid most of the time on T... A site on Anubus but pushing A main a lot more than he should.. T side hes working A site as well mostly going first in when the execute...
woah, great hosts. this is going to be a good podcast. Harry and Nohte crushed on their takes. Banger point around 20 mins by harry about liquid. Voo was fine but just couldn’t keep up, shame
Great content!
What I would like to see improved: difficult not to notice but difficult to describe, it's not only video quality, voo's webcam is f in sharp, warm, and pleasant to look at. Richer scenery behind? Not my area of expertise, really.
I think the team needs more time, a lot more time. It's a team with a completely new IGL and awper. They still are a top 8 team which ideally should make the playoffs of the coming major. Just because Liquid is a big brand, one shouldn't expect them to always be title contenders.
Good one 👍
No offense I have studied demos of liquid and Yekindar blows so many rounds by mashing the W key and hes way to aggressive and more stupid with his aggression than ultimate. Yekindar needs to be a entry that hes paid for. also Liquid needs more teamwork, flashes and planned attacks they seem to have no strats other than defaults. -ultimate + s1mple/ultimate/sunpayus -Yekindar +kyusoke entry.. let twistzz call. Then you have 3 aggressive players and 2 lurkers. Not to bash JKS but hes not a star player or star lurker. Hes a average top player, you can even keep ultimate and replace Yekindar with hooxi and pick up kyusoke for JKS
Average response from the forums.
now we're cooking - v excited for this 🔥🔥
hltv finaly made a podcast with good hosts
The problem with Liquid is that the roster itself is broken down to the core if it wants to win events.
1. They don’t have the skill to be a pug team (G2)
2. They don’t have the teamplay or long term synergy to win close games (Faze, Vitality, Mouz)
3. They don’t have a good enough star rifle to base the game around them (Spirit, EF)
4. They don’t have good enough communication (because their international technically) to be based on strategies (Furia, COL, VP, Mongolz)
The team is fundamentally broken and can’t work in any of these contexts unless you change at least two players.
I'M IN (for this)
This is great
Mom, can we get HLTV Confirmed Podcast?
We have HLTV Confirmed Podcast at home.
HLTV Confirmed Podcast at home:
love it mens :)))
Gotta label the axes of the graphs man.
To the role issues in Liquid -jks +nertZ would fix a LOT of their problems i feel
it literally wouldn't
@@qwerty-pk1nowhy wouldn’t it?
@@ballertheking1038 because nertz is fucking terrible , jks been playing so much better then yekindar but hey keep yekindar and remove jks
Realistically if u were to just "upgrade" ur way out of this without fixing stylistic issues theres 2 paths while keeping this core.
-Ultimate, - Yekindar/JKS
+Xantares/NertZ, +SunPayus
Ín this iteration either JKS or Twistzz has to step up and take more opening attempts.
If not Twistzz igl angle its just; -Yekindar; +Hooxi/Gla1ve
Xantares prolly not available but hey if they wanna break their bank completely go for it.
Also Can people stop doing the weird thing of acting like the second you get picked up by a tier 1 org, your supposed to instantly be a tier 1 player. Most players arent. So teach the guy tier 1 cs.
Voo really gunning for Maui’s spot on htpm 😂
the dream would be +elige +sunpayus
First episode around 1h of team liquid - bold move 😂😂
y didn't they get Malbs?
People often forget how bad vitality was when dupreeh and magisk joined, give teams more time
The problem is that having one of your best players be IGL and play star positions means everyone else has to be stable in their positions (that’s why Mongolz/Pain have capped out) and because yekindar is playing badly (similar to how Spinx early on was playing badly), they either A. Have to change the style (similar to vitality) or B. Swapping Yekindar for a better aggro rifle.
i dont doubt that twistzz can be a great igl, but watching their rounds play out, they're so slow getting anything done and it's more and more easy to ready what they''re doing. They definitely can be one of the top teams in the world. Like watching some of their demos, they should be easily see the issues, but they dont. They should pick up an experienced IGL and drop yekindar. Get twistzz doing entries. Ultimate is young and not as experienced in tier1. Will take a bit of time for him to learn the right times to be aggressive and when not to.
Twistzz will have to give up IGLing or get a more experienced second caller who can also frag and help with mid rounding. Just like dev1ce did.
o great, another kyousuke guy. lol All those forums threads are you arent they?
Why is ner0 the only one using his real name? xd
Talking HLTV
Voo and Ner0 don’t see ultimate clutching with rifles a lot and all his job is to do is Awp better than CadiaN which is ez
Lake would unironically be an upgrade over Yekindar
my head canon is yekkie is like, good at giving head or something cos everyone but liquid can see its not working.
Anyone that considers keeping Yekindar when trying to come up with a solution to Liquid's problems is not serious.
gla1ve for yekindar, put him on entry selfless roles
keep mithr or get kassad
kassad coach jks to be more aggressive
top 1 team ez
I feel like any move that is anyone out besides yaki..... it's gonna be a trash take....
voo my goat
zontix aim so high he lost the tournement
but he said it in an english accent
Liquid is sooo cooked 💀
Yekindar is going to retire after this major, but its not his choice
Yaki can't Even give good information cause he can't see half his screen
The anti-rolecel propaganda has gone too far. It is true that roles aren't necessarily well defined and that not every team needs to have all the same roles. But for a team to be any good, it needs to have either *players that fit the roles* or *roles that fit the players.* Liquid has neither.
lake is trash. 90% of his stats come from farming NA teams and lets be honest 90% of NA teams are no better than solo matchmaking.
cs2 dying anyway, only had time to play one game today had cheaters on both teams.
The reaosn liquid are bad is they refuse to kick Yekindar
RMRs wont exist anymore. So what you said makes 0 sense.
Liquid Has fans? they're not even majority NA and I doubt anyone from eu or other continents would cheer for them either
So? People don't have to like teams based on their nationalities yknow tf
Who gives a shit about NA??!