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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2024
- It's one of the best cards in the game... so why isn't everyone using it?
EDHREC's Sol Ring post: edhrec/status/163...
Commanders That HATE Staples: • Commanders that Hate E...
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I have an enchantress deck that used to run 0 artifacts. One game, another player cast a spell that let them look through another player's deck and steal an artifact. They chose me.
I cackled for days afterward.
my shrine deck only has Helm of the Gods in it! all green enchantment rocks
Your escapade is legendary and the goblin energy gives me life XD
Similar case here, my Animar deck is 33 lands and 66 creatures. Animar covers the grey cost of all creatures, so a sol ring is basically useless.
My enchantress deck plays no artifacts, although I do concede that deck would be better if I had it and excluding it is entirely for thematic reasons. Anyway, I had someone look through my deck after a game recently and he simply could not wrap his head around it.
My shrines deck does run Expedition Map as a nonbasic search in the absence of fetch lands, as well as a few of the artifact duals. This is explicitly to make it easier to proc Happily Ever After, since I'm not allowed Coalition Victory and it's Coalition Victory at home.
My definition of an auto include is something you have to actively choose not to put in a deck. Sol ring is a choice your making to remove it, not to add it. Very few cards can hold a candle to that.
That's fine, but your own definition implies that the deck you are including the card into matters. So although sol ring would be an auto include in most decks it is not always an auto include. In the case of Animar i would consider Ancestral Statue an auto include but not sol ring.
Well put
Yea I agree, its like when you going to make any deck, you know how many land it is gonna be by default. And then you just add/subtract it or replace it with something else.
That just mean the lands are auto include. Why would you think hard to put it or not. We put it first and then think.
Just like Sol Ring, many of use think why NOT to inlcude it but not many who thinks the other way around.
Exactly what i was thinking. For the purpose of optimization, youd need a good reason NOT to put it in. It doesn’t actually mean you literally are only looking for 98 cards from the start.
Thats why it deserves a ban
I wonder how much Pauper Commander impacts this statistic. Since it’s never received a common printing, Sol Ring won’t appear in the thousands of PDH decks the EDHrec is probably pulling from.
That and last I used the site there were no categorical checkboxes to say what EDH format the list was for (albeit that was a while ago)
Heck, and just think of all the OLD style decks that just got updated/added just to use as an archive of days gone by.
probably as much as 1v1 commander impacts it, if I had to guess
I think since you cannot play the card in pedh, it does count as eligible for those decks and doesn't count towards the numbers
Did anyone else think Joey was gonna say he made this episode so he could finally challenge some stats?
😭😭😭
At this point I kinda think he's fine with it and just plays into the joke
Nah, cause Matt or Dana would feel a disturbance and call him, to get the steal.
@bigmacmm5 I would've lost it if Dana or Matt called in to Segway into a challenge the stats
The funny thing about sol ring is also that the power level affects sol ring's impact so much. In casual, drawing your sol ring t1 can warp the game, whereas in a pod also running mana crypt, jeweled lotus, etc, the two mana boost is practically business as usual.
I usually sandbag sol ring even if I have it in hand turn one. I don't need to come out that far ahead turn 1. Especially if there's no follow up that same turn.
low colorless pip count is legit. I forget which deck it was in particular, but I remember finding that I couldn't really make good use of the ring in some decks when the main deck just didn't have a lot of colorless in it's costs.
I don't run it in Sythis. She is 2cmc 2 color pips and I play the full Rod / Silence / Ouphe package
we house ruled it to produce one colorless, even at that its still arguably the best mana rock
@@moedark4390 spend one mana to get back a colorless seems like reversed colorfixing to me. At least with Signet, while it costs 2, you can turn a Mana Crypt into a color of choice (and I wouldn't run Signet in most of my decks)
@W4tch0ut It provides it each turn. Better then paying 2 for one mana a turn
@@bestaround3323 but the downside of that mana being colorless can't be overstated. In decks with lower color intensity it might still be fine ramp, but idk. Definitely would turn it from probably 3. or 4. best rock to fringe
Super interesting data dive, Joey!
I personally dropped Sol Ring from most of my decks because it swings games too much. Sol Ring in the first 3 turns just catapults you so far ahead.
Doesn't every good start swing a game in that players favor? You can blame it on a single card like Sol Ring and ban it from your table, but then the green player plays a bunch of dorks and "the artifact guy" can't keep up with his mind stones cause sol ring isnt there and another guy is just randomly mana screwed. Yes, an early Sol Ring can decide a game, potentially. But so can any other good start (or bad luck).
@@w4tch0ut10 I would say you CAN blame it on a single card if that single card is significantly stronger than the alternatives.
@@olah420 but the point was, that since every card sits at a different "power level" there will always be that one card that's the strongest. No matter how many cards you ban.
Oh and let's not forget that you could also blame it on the other cards being too weak. It works both ways. And Sol Ring isnt even the best rock. Arguably not the 2. or 3. best either. So it's not necessarily better than the alternatives.
@@w4tch0ut10 I don't agree with your logic on this. It feels like a slippery slope argument. If you could stack up literally every ramp in the game in a line and each one was 10% better than the previous I would agree with the "no matter how many you ban" argument, because you just work down the chain until there's nothing left. However, the reality is that a vast majority of the payable ramp cards are at a pretty even competitiveness level (2 mana rocks, wayfarer's bauble, llanowar elf, knight of the white orchid, etc, etc, etc). Then there's Sol Ring, and suddenly everything else is pretty crappy in comparison. I see your point about Sol Ring not being the best rock/ramp and I agree; which is why I also don't play those ramp sources either unless I'm playing a competitive game. Sol ring and higher leads to unfun non-games in my experience.
commander players when they win the game
Commander is a format that allows for deck creativity in a way that you just don't see in other formats. Sol Ring is absolutely a great card, but it is one of those cards that just feels kinda "paint by numbers" when you look at it while deckbuilding. It gives no "Ok, where are they going with this" feeling when I see it hit the table, it is just a simple efficient tool. And that is fine, every deck needs some efficient cards, personally I would rather play a less efficient mana source with some synergistic upside further down the road.
The problem is that all ring is just so efficient that it’s almost impossible to find a card with enough synergy to actually make it worth while. People who I know who don’t play have usually house banned it which isn’t a bad idea if you don’t like the card.
Oh...you mean like how a large number of Commander decks are pretty much virtually the same? I play several pods a week, many with different players. I see the same decks, Commanders, and/or strategies consistently. It is very rare I see a creatively built deck.
@@architectofdreams73 I don't play commander much irl but on arena I always see the same infinite combos and 5 color pile of best cards game after game. There really isn't any creativity in the format, everyone tries too hard
@@Marionettetc pretty much the same in Commander
@@architectofdreams73 Sorry to hear that, my experience has been completely the opposite. Maybe this depends on how powerful the meta you play in is, my groups tend to be on the more casual side. I think as you lean towards more and more competitive groups, the pool of "viable" Commanders and Cards shrinks. Maybe try to be the one to make a change and perhaps others will follow suite. But good luck with that.
I play Sol Ring, but certainly don’t have anything against those that don’t, nor do I mind having the discussion as a playgroup. Heck, I wouldn’t mind having one extra deck slot in all of my decks! 😂
Or an extra sol ring 😄
When i was visiting a friend for some multiplayer commander, they told us when we got there that sol ring is banned in their group, so when i switched it out for honour troll, my twinheaded giant team won from beating them in with the honour troll. It felt quite validating.
@@stratavosstuff7575 that’s a great result!
@@stratavosstuff7575 why would you replace a 1 mana accelerant with a 3 mana beater? also, don't ruin card names with your gross british spelling lol. it's honor troll.
@@jeffe2267 honor isnt a word bud
I personally want to make my decks less same-y. I only put it in whenever I play a color combination that lacks good ramp of its own and/or if im playing an artifact deck
I'm in this same bucket. I just really love playing cards that I find neat or interesting, cards that synergize with my deck, and -most importantly- fit whatever theme I'm going for. I gotta make sure I put in my ramp package, but if there are other more fun or interesting options, I'm gonna play them over the same ol' Sol Ring. I'd rather play something cool like a Carpet of Flowers in my enchantress deck, copyable/recursive rituals in my spellslinger deck, or a treasure-maker or artifact-theft card in a pirate tribal deck. Sol Ring might be the stronger option, but I'm not building explicitly for power. I'm building for those VIBES, baybee, and Sol Ring often gets in the way.
Me also, or a deck with really high cmc
I hope you don't run the same lands
@@w4tch0ut10 hardly avoidable to reuse basic lands is it
wonderful video as always Joey!!! i personally don’t put Sol Ring in many of my casual low MV commander decks just on the basis of owning a lot of EDH decks, and i want to look at different pieces of cardboard. giving more niche ramp pieces or synergies a spotlight just makes me enjoy the game a little more.
My reasons are entirely power level based. I just didn’t like the feeling of opening sol ring and winning due to my early leads. Granted, my experience is mostly 2 or 3 player with the same handful of casual players, so my decks are tuned accordingly. When I built for higher-power (and consistently multiplayer) metas, I definitely was throwing it in everything. Definitely appreciate the mindful strategic analysis here that even I never really considered.
I played a game with some friends over the weekend, one of whom was brand new to the format, and it was intended to be a "opportunity to learn your deck" kinda game... I gambled on a 2-land hand with card draw and rocks in my Alibou deck, which IMO is the clunkiest and weakest of my decks... but the hand had a sol ring in it.
It immediately threw me way ahead of my friends in a way that my deck does NOT normally do. On turn 4 I realised I would likely be able to get both casts of an Approach Of The Second Sun off before the end of my next turn. I sighed - a turn 5 win against a brand new player was not what I or anyone wanted. After checking with the group, I played it out - we prefer to do our sandbagging during deckbuilding, not during play - and yeah. The game was over within 10 minutes. All because the speed of sol ring meant I could pop off before my friends had a reasonable chance of doing the same :/
The experience has made me much more skeptical of giving it leeway that other fast mana rocks don't get. If I knew people around me were also interested in cutting their fast mana, I'd be happy to reenact LOTR's Mt Doom scene...
Like 60 of the no sol ring decks are me and my friends and the game is so much better for it. Do it.
A year ago I got into a new playgroup and they told me that they had banned Sol Ring. I wasn't thrilled at first but after playing with them for over a year now, it does make for better games in general, in comparison to my other playgroup that does play it. There are many variables that lead to the better game experience, but honestly I don't miss it at all. Took it out of all of my decks.
I really don't like playing against and with sol ring. Often when a player draws sol ring they become the arch enemy or put them so far ahead that it is hard for everyone else to catch up. Most people don't play cards like mana crypt for a reason, even if money isn't an issue. I tend to play lower power games and it tends to dominate said low power games. Which is why, unless it's on theme, I tend to cut it from all of my decks, only 1 of my 20-ish decks having it at the moment.
I think the problem is.. even if you draw it turn 1. You don't have to play it turn 1 specifically to avoid this situation. You are always +1 mana after using it. So best to save till you using it won't pain a target on your back.
I remember a playgroup I used to play with that wanted to ban fast mana and sol rings. A month in we saw a huge swing to green decks and my Darien deck sat on the shelf due to not being able to catch up before they went off. We actually saw less variation of decks when fast mana went away.
That's interesting. Was green fast mana like burgeoning banned as well? I personally don't feel like there's a big difference between a nature's lore and an arcane signet for example. EDH is so interesting. At the highest levels, green is probably the worst color, but at casual tables it's the best.
I think it would be very interesting for you guys to discuss how the game dynamics change when playing in a game of 3 or 5 players. It's something that comes up very often in normal playgroups. I think sol ring in a three player creates very bad game experience for example.
Straight up, I just don't play sol ring if a deck is meant for purely casual play. Like sure, if you're playing a powerful deck that aims to win and everyone is playing that way, then sure, I'll play one of my decks with it in it. But otherwise, I'll just replace sol ring for a 2 mana rock bc that's the type of ramp that is most common. Plus, helps with not becoming archenemy right away at the start of the game 😉
My decks are power level 5, even with the sol ring lol. I especially need the mana for my WUBRG Jodah, the unifier deck. It mostly has tap lands, so I need the accelerent. It is also mainly me tossing most of my legendary creatures together to have a decent time. I will hopefully get more time to workshop it today
Who actually enjoys playing a game with people who DONT try to win? 🤔 Isn't that like playing with bots?
@W4tch0ut There is a difference between trying your hardest to win during deck construction and during play. If you always try to be meta, then you end up with something like CDH, which takes 3 turns and 90 minutes, and has the same 10 decks. Which is fun for some people, but definitely not what I play commander for.
@@w4tch0ut10 you’d be surprised how many people I’ve met that plays decks that “fucks around and find out” how they win
@@bestaround3323 There are many more decks in cEDH than 10. Just Kenrith has like 3 archetypes.
Our playgroup banned sol ring/all other fast mana, and we've never looked back. It frees up slots in the 99 and helps keep our pod's power level tame.
We did the same in my old play group and it was wonderful!
we made a house rule that sol ring and mana crypt produce 1 mana
What about ramp spells??
@@n3rdm4n36 Our ban only applies to mana rocks that immediately give you more resources than you paid for them (sol ring, jeweled lotus, mana crypt, etc). Banning all ramp spells would be miserable.
Last time a player in my playgroup turn 1'd a Sol Ring + Mana Crypt, that player was the first to die. Our power levels are all fairly high and relatively equal, so jumping ahead like that is a good way to get policed by the rest of the table.
I think the one deck I have that I seriously considered cutting Sol Ring was my Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief deck since I was going with an aura enchantress theme to it. I still have it in the list as one of only 2 artifacts but I don't think I'd really miss it were I to actually cut it (except for missing the Pride secret lair art)
Pride ring best ring.
Our play group decided not to include fast mana like Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus etc. and this includes Sol Ring. If you think about it the only difference conceptually between Sol Ring and Mana Crypt is a lot of money because Wizard decided to continuously print the card in comparison to the other card. The card is that over powered that it’s hard to find the next best card in the line. Compare it to Worn Powerstone which costs 2cmc more and enters tapped.
I spend a lot of time tuning my lists, more so than my playgroup and as a result my decks are noticeably more synergistic. In order to keep myself from stomping my friends every game, I've cut a lot of powerful staples, Sol Ring included.
Great video and insight, thank you! I've recently started not Auto including it in my decks with the intention being to evaluate the ramp after the main strategy has been established. Additionally, to lessen usage of sol ring, a person in my playgroup recently made the comment that adding more draw should be weighed higher than ramp so I'm currently testing that notion out. 🤔
It's still an auto include in my initial brews (purely as buffer for commander tax, if nothing else) despite having 2 decks that don't run it/run better without it.
I personally hate the card and the variance it brings to games and would never begrudge people who avoid it or or groups that outright ban it =D
You bring up so good points not to use Sol Ring using mana colored spells. Our group always use Sol Ring in our decks. Wouldn't it make sense to use Sol Ring because each time your Commander goes back into the Command Zone, it cost two additional mana each time you bring your Commander out. Thanks for the video Joey.
Why run a sol ring when I can run a counterspell that saves me not only the 2 recast mana, but also the base commander casting cost
@@mattezuka1274 cause you need thr 2 mana more while casting your commander
“High on their own supply” was the best way to describe it in my opinion. Definitely made me bust up 🤣 great video!!
I think a lot of these can go either way. You can argue that ring is great regardless and put it in, or argue that some other option is more synergistic. I think both are probably correct, but the question of which is more fun to play/what you want to use that slot for is what it comes down to
I recently made a list for the new Thalia and The Gitrog Monster and after testing decided to remove Sol-Ring. I found that due to the high land count, land based ramp, and color pips in the commanders mana cost, Sol-Ring didnt work as well as I thought it would.
I was kind of thinking the same thing after testing out a list a bit. I think the only other mana rock I ended up with was Arcane Signet, so I am thinking maybe Ouphe or Null Rod might be worth a shot in the list. I usually only play against my kids so I keep my lists relatively low power, but I like to humble them every once in a while.
What about when they kill your commanders (because they will) and it pays for the commander tax?
@@stevenluoma1268 land ramp can already pay for commander tax and it won't be subject to much removal
@@blakefarber3718 Lands don't tap for 2 (most of the time) so unless you're also making them tap for 2, I don't agree.
@@stevenluoma1268 Uhh Phyrexian Tower, Ancient Tomb, Temple of the False God, and Cabal Coffers + mana doubling effects or Crucible of Worlds effects to replay sacc'd lands. When you have all that AND absurd ramp, what's the point in a Sol Ring.
I’m a little late to the party, but I chose to remove Sol ring from my Ezuri, Stalker of Spheres deck in favor of other mana rocks. I started out with the Sol Ring, but it was very quickly replaced by normally worse mana rocks such as astral cornucopia and everflowing chalice.
Part of the problem was that even with a turn 1 Sol Ring, it simply doesn’t move with the engine and often felt like dead weight on the field. Worse still was that drawing it after the first 3 turns felt like a waste as there was usually other cards that were taking priority to cast and added mana simply wasn’t worth casting as it wasn’t impacting the board state any longer.
This is anecdotal, but smoothing out the draw engine was more important in this case than the extra mana early. It’s important to consider whether a card is truly moving the deck forward or not at all points.
Interesting, I doubt my Animar deck compares to a CDH version but I do use Sol Ring in it because of some colorless creatures I use as well as powering up my X cost creatures. Also helps with casting some of my enchantments, though I do experience a bit of frustration when it's time to cast creatures and my arcane signet ends up being more useful most of the time. When people say that frustration isn't a good enough reason to exclude it, you have to keep in mind that being stuck with the wrong mana just one or two times is often a game ender at higher levels of play and may get removed because the extra speed sometimes doesn't make up for being inconsistent.
It also makes you a huge target. If you play it, it can absolutely cause the entire board to focus you down. Also it being so common insures that people will frequently bring counterplay
No kidding. I have personally started packing more Brotherhood's End and Hidetsugu Devours All to deal with Treasures and other tokens but doing so also hits Sol Ring
I've heard this a few times but I play commander basically every day and I've never seen this happen
@@jadegrace1312 Same, I don't doubt that it actually happens, but I really don't think that it's as common as people say
@@jadegrace1312 yea im very new but from what i feel it's like "okay i'll keep an eye on that" and it typically doesn't end up mattering a ton even if it's turn one sol ring
stuff like mystic remora, rhystic study, esper sentinel are much more of a big deal in the early game from what i've seen
if somebody has a by force, or a removal spell that targets multiple artifacts and they don't have a different target, they're more likely to hit your sol ring than they were to hit your worn powerstone
I don't run Sol Ring in my Sigarda, Host of Herons Voltron deck because I do have quite a few artifact hate in the deck. As an enchantress, she draws and ramps me decently being in green. If others depend on their rings and artifacts and I can shut those down, I am repelled forward even further! I also have Serra's Sanctum in the deck so I am usually good on making a lot of mana.
I was on the fence about running it in Hamza, Guardian of Arashin, but I am keeping it there. The cost reduction is on colorless mana, but it is nice being able to cast creatures prior to Hamza coming down, or casting instant and sorceries that ramp or protect.
I also have a sans-Ring enchantress deck!
300$ land> 2 dollar Sol ring
But why not both…?
I was expecting this video to be a push to ditch Sol Ring. Very glad that it was nuanced and a well argued discussion. Thanks for the insight.
I tend to not use Sol Ring in my decks for a reason that my playgroups end up just agreeing to disagree with. Most people want to have that mana out early and so they put in rocks like Sol Ring or Jeweled Lotus expecting it on turn 1-3.
My rebuttal is this: In a casual game where you're having fun with friends at a table, would you like to draw a Sol Ring turn 4-8, or a synergy card?
Because it is generic power with no flavor to the deck and sours the taste in my mouth when I play it, it feels like I'm cheating haha
I think another small point that was never brought up was that online not everyone makes decks that are finished and complete or that have been played. They might start making a deck but abandon it half way and the system does not account for decks that are not trying to win. So I would say there is a small percentage of decks on edhrec that are simply waste stats.
This was awesome! It's incredibly interesting to listen to what sound like some valid reason not to run a SR and then to still see that over 50% of people are still including it. It just leaves me wondering what is the percentage of people who included a SR because of its fame and hype? I wonder how low the percentages could go or if the 50+% of people running it in some of the decks mentioned would miss it if they cut it? It's in my prosper deck but on games where I don't pull it I don't miss it or at least I don't think I do.
I’m on the verge of taking Sol Ring out of everything I play, and it may be for dumb reasons, but I’m probably going to stick with them. There’s a six percent chance to hit it in your opener, and until your fiftieth draw you have a 2% chance onto hit it. Early game, it draws more heat than I am usually setup to take. Mid game, I’m trying to stabilize and get my closers out, I either need it in play already or I want to draw something else. Late game, I need something other than acceleration almost universally and it has always felt like a dead draw.
It’s just always a bad vibe to me. In the opener? “Wellp, I’m the target now” bad vibes. Draw it mid game? “I really need my engine pieces, I wish I had this sooner” bad vibes. Late game? “I really needed my removal or some kind of draw right now” bad vibes.
But it changes entirely when it’s on board already. Early game ring? “Thank the Magic gods I have the mana for this wipe” mid games. Late game? “Time for the combo pain”.
Then there’s the table dynamics. One person has one? Well, that persons the threat until it’s gone. Two people? Well, now there’s two people behind while half the table throws hay makers. Three people? Well, someone’s getting dunked on or ignored for having a normal game and doesn’t get to feel relevant. None of those are scenarios that I personally feel are what people’s decks showed up to do.
I get the power of a Sol Ring. I have it in everything right now. But it just never passes the vibe check for “what’s gonna be the most fun right now”. I know that’s short sighted, but to me I don’t play commander to win. I play to hang out, have stories about this one time someone did something stupid crazy.
And just like that, to do the stupid crazy, you probably need a Sol Ring to do it.
So I’m obviously conflicted.
I play Sol Ring now, but when I first started, I was a lot more strict about budget and the ring was a bit more expensive than I felt was justifiable (I tried to keep each card under $2 and it was over $3). Some of my decks still don't have it since I haven't bothered to 'upgrade' that specific card
I use Sol Ring in decks where it actively helps me ramp into a commander but not in decks where the commander isn't part of the engine or expensive enough to warrant using it like a mini ritual effect.
It isnt a mini ritual effect tho? Do you not realize sol ring is a permanent 2 extra mana that is already positive the turn you play it?
@@mr.joesterr5359 I'm aware, but I use whether or not turn 1 sol ring into turn 2 something essential to my deck's strategy vs. something beneficial but not essential as a metric for whether or not I should put sol ring into my deck.
Great Video! Tuvasa player here and I absolutely agree, between her color intensive casting cost, and the cheapness of most enchantments I am running, Sol Ring actually ends up slowing her down.
For me it always start with a sol ring and arcane signet in my list, BUT if I’m getting close to finishing the list and have a card or two that I REALLY want to play in the deck but just can’t find room for, they are the first cards to come out
One of the big reasons for a deck with no ring will be color pips in my experience. When Crypt and ring aren't helping you cast your mother of Runes into dauthi into necro etc, you might have to make some changes.
I have removed all "fast mana" and downgraded Sol Rings to Sol Talismans. And now I am removing Sol Talismans. I like playing higher power decks and I mitigate that by not using any form of fast mana. I like my decks to have actual weaknesses to encourage more dramatic play experiences.
Sol Talisman is very much enough of a downgrade from Sol Ring that I can't imagine wanting to power down even further from it.
@@TheAverageGuyTAG yeah, replacing the sol talisman is to put in a card that actually is relevant.
I dig this. When my deck punches, I want the other decks to be able to punch back. I don’t want to win because I punched so much faster than everyone else (unless I’m playing an aggro deck, in which case it’s a different kind of punch).
@@humanaffectation9021
Fair enough.
To throw my 2 cents into the conversation, I use EDHREC to have a digital catalog of my Physical Decks, which is about 12. I don't own 12 copies of Sol Ring (No matter how much I want to) I don't use Online Card Sellers so I only Buy from Local Game Stores, and they are frequently our of Stock for Sol Ring.
To me it just depends on the type of deck I want to build. If it’s a fast deck or something that I want to make compete but not at a level like that. If I’m going for a chill deck, especially if it’s a different commander, I choose not to simply for variety
The secret reason for not including Sol Ring: I forgot to put a Sol Ring in my deck! Oops!
The second secret reason: Thada Adel player stole it!
I've built most of my decks through dumpster diving through some LGSs and friend's bulk lists, and at a time if I had about 10 of my local currency, I'd rather spend on a couple of key pieces for my decks (which were usually green, and therefore easier to subsidize its lack). The one Sol ring I've got now is in my Tianna deck that is very color intensive, but also very reliant on her to be out, so any help is welcome.
Great Video! More of this stuff please :)
My most recent deck to omit Sol Ring was helmed by Maelstrom Wanderer. I decided to use absolutely no one-drops or two-drops in this deck, so that they couldn't get in the way of cascading into Hypergenesis. In the past, I've also sometimes build decks without Sol Ring to keep them within a specific budget.
Sol Ring and similar cards were fine 10 years ago, when the base power level of cards was pretty low but, nowadays it is very easy to to gain a huge advantage with 2 extra mana on the first turns.
I think one non-thematic consideration you didn't mention might be in a deck or a group meta where artefact hate is prevalent. Sol Ring probably isn't worth it if things like stony silence or vandalblasts and farewells are extra common.
My problem with sol ring has always been what I like to call the "donning the target mask" problem. Whoever gets a turn 1 sol ring is likely to be the first person to suffer at the hands of an opponent, be it a 1/1 creature, a burn spell, or removal. My one aggressive deck, Winota (aka Spin to Winota) runs it, but I often have to put some thought into whether it's worth that risk in other decks. I like to actually establish a board state before I get punched, personally. I usually prioritize putting Hans/Sad Robot in over a sol ring. It may not tap for mana, but it's ramp, card draw, AND HAS LEGS.
I have an Omnath, Locus of Rage deck with 60 Lands and no Sol Ring. My Goal was to have a functioning and very strong deck with as many Lands as I could cram in there. It is also my most expensive deck and it is really fun to play.
Thanks for this video. I know it's going to be sub-optimal, but i'm going to give myself a restriction of making a deck without colourless mana rocks. In an act of forcing myself to be more creative and think more laterally about my card choices.
Back in 2011 my friends and I agreed to ban Sol Ring from our decks. We felt it ruined too many games if someone got it turn one. Though my friends have quit playing since then I still don’t play Sol Ring.
I made a feather the redeemed decklist recently and it's the first time I've considered cutting sol ring from the list in a commander deck. It's not just the commander herself costing 3 color pips, the deck as a whole is extremely pip heavy to the point where I feel as though mid-game treasure token generators like storm-kiln artist or smothering tithe are a lot more useful. I still ended up keeping sol ring in the end though because my list has more equipments than average, but I can definitely see myself mulliganing starting hands even if they contain a sol ring.
I like replacing some very popular good cards like sol ring with some group hugish ramp or draw cards that can help someone who may be having a rough start to a game. If I'm in green my go to us avatar of growth, if I am in white I like cards like cut a deal or flumph, and if I am in red I like Descend into Avernus. Those cards can spark joy which I appreciate because sometimes people get stuck with just the lands they started with and the complaining can really bring the mood down for the table. The nice thing about having these types of cards in your deck is that you can always choose not to play them if the situation is inappropriate (like if some one brings a cEDH deck to FNM, I am not going to help that person get ramp/draw since their deck is more efficient than mine), however those situations are rarer than if you get a sol ring early and the hostility of the table is pointed at you for being lucky enough to get such a powerful temporary ramp source.
Outside of it being a wasted slot in my landfall deck, I don't really play it and colorless mana rocks much anymore due to how much I've smoothed out the mana curve. The decks care more about getting the right colors rather than huge colorless mana.
sounds like a power 7 deck
Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus and low mana tutors are the only cards we banned in my playgroup, and honestly we regret nothing, makes the decks and matches much more unique and entertaining. The fast mana those artifacts give sometimes make the match spiral out of control and just un-fun or it turns into an Arch Enemy match.
Hilariously, Jeweled lotus only REALLY pops off for mono colored decks. For every other deck it's not always the best, and sometimes a massive dud.
The pips can play a huge role depending on how central the commander is to your strategy. In animar for example, his ability is central to the deck so cutting any ramp that can't help cast him as early means you are eliminating dead cards from t1-t3 plays
edit:shouldve watched the rest before commenting
i was gonna mention yuriko but it was in the video! awesome!
Don't forget rule 0. I've been in some playgroups that have Sol Ring banned because it ended up being the deciding factor of a game and that isn't always appreciated in some circles.
I only recently started taking sol ring out of some decks. It was a conscious decision as I realized the colorless mana wasn't doing what I needed. Other ramp pieces worked better.
what kind of ramp pieces? Never seen something better then solring
@@w.s6124 Well in a deck that doesn't use colorless mana much or is focused heavily on creatures, sol ring often doesn't do a lot. In my Jarad deck, I swapped out all of my rocks for mana dorks and land ramp. It synergizes better with my other pieces. In another deck, I hate on artifacts heavily and punish cheap ramp, I don't have it in that deck either. I do still have it in most decks though. Essentially, if Sol ring is a nonbo or doesn't get my commander/key pieces out faster, I try and find a better option synergistically.
@@ozzwich i think even in jarad solring is still one of the best ramp cards enven if theres no sinergy. But i could be wrong never playd with him as a commander just from my general experience with creature decks
It’s a bit hard to explain in TH-cam comments, but essentially it is a combination of the reasons listed in this video. Deck relies heavily on black or green pip cost things, creature ramp to go with creature synergies ect. I had too many games were soo ring just did nothing, even on turn 1 or 2.
I play sol ring in nearly all my decks, the only one that doesn't have it is my Yarok Landfall deck.
I had originally forgotten to include it, and due to the fact land ramp is currently taking up the slot for it, I haven't found missing it.
I started a personal rule in *most* of my decks to only run cards that are modern legal. It takes out many of the power crept cards printed specifically for EDH, as well as removing the possibility to play the somewhat contentious Reserve List cards. The benefit overall that I've seen from it is that it opened up many new slots in my deck from removing several staples to allow for more diversity in choices, which imo makes them more interesting to play with and against
Agreed. Vintage and legacy staples should not be in a casual format
Don’t forget extreme budget decks. Sol Ring wibble-wobbles between $1 and $3 and if you’re trying to build in a deck under $10 you literally don’t have the space for a ring when you need to include 60 other five to ten cent cards to fill out a list.
I build most of my decks with at least the idea of budget in mind, so paying $1-$3 for sol ring vs a few cents for all the other various forms of ramp seems wasteful for the expected game impact. Just like you said, if I'm only giving myself a few dollars to spend after the minimum to fill out 99 cards, I'd rather spend that budget on bombs and massive synergy payoff cards than a really nice ramp piece. Been seeing this sentiment in general going around more, but the age of goodstuff is ending. The age of synergy milking is upon us.
tf you going to do with a 10 dollar deck you might as well watch paint dry
@@matthewskullblood9778 Eh, im not ashamed to say Ive seen some serious cheek clapping from extreme budget decks of various types.
@@matthewskullblood9778 Magic sets are designed to function at common only, which is why Pauper works. Including the cheap uncommons and rares actually makes for a very respectable card pool, at least if you're not going for specific combos.
@@riukenavatar8625 you can also go like 15 days without water but I wouldn't suggest it
My biggest gripe with Sol Ring is that in most builds you really don’t want to draw it after turn 6, or so. At that point my mana is set and I’m looking for answers to the board state. I don’t want to draw a Sol Ring on turn 8 when I really need a removal spell or a board wipe. As has been mentioned, when you really want it is in your opening hand, but if you play a turn one Sol Ring you’re going to be the arch enemy.
So just cut lands from ur deck then with that shortsighted and pitiful logic!
@@mr.joesterr5359 Wow. You must be fun to have in a play group. I never said I don’t use Sol Rings. I have 30 decks and run them in all of them as a matter of fact. I only said that the only time I really want to see them is in the first few turns, then I’d rather have something more useful than a colorless mana rock.
I have 2 decks without it, one that focuses on colour pips with Krrik and one that just didn't happen to have a lot of generic mana costs and had quite a few landfall triggers which benefited more from another land tutor on that slot instead.
As mentioned in the video, Jarad Golgari Lich Lord is my deck I took sol ring out of. I have a lot of cards that care about creatures in GY like boneyard wurm or spider spawning. Overall I have 52 creatures and only one non-creature artifact (witchbane orb for GY protection). Sol ring in the bin doesnt +1/+1 my creatures or get hit on a living death
I have started playing less and less sol ring in decks for power level. Yes it's legal and good but I don't enjoy games where I am too ahead of my opponents. I will sometimes choose to mulligan if it's in my opening hand
Edit: honestly I play less and less traditional ramp cards these days in general. Slow mana rocks don't get you very far in 2023. There is so much accidental removal that it sometimes only give you a temporary boost of mana
Sol ring helps me play 6 mana commanders, which I’ve grown to love.
One of my oldest decks is a Grixis vampire deck. It used to be headed by Garza Zol, but I switched to Evelyn, the Covetous awhile back. Neither version has ever included a Sol Ring for thematic reasons, namely that vampires traditionally avoid the sun. I later built an Edgar Markov deck and it has Sol Ring because it includes a bunch of the Ixalan vamps who aren’t as sun-avoidant as many vamps, but the Grixis one will never run it because I prefer it that way. It is very heavily vamp themed even beyond being heavily tribal.
All three of my green decks (Lathril, Sythis, and Imoti) don’t play Sol Ring for reasons all mentioned in this video - caring about Elves, being enchantress, and wanting to cascade + having a Keruga companion - respectively.
I would not cut a Sol Ring. Not with a scissors, not with a knife. I just couldn't do it.
The first deck I took sol ring out of was my smart omnath deck, after that I started taking it out of my 3+ color decks, I don't normally miss it at all. And one sided games happen far less often too.
I don't have a Sol Ring in my black/white cleric deck. I am constantly drawing and playing low-cost clerics, and don't usually have much need for two colorless mana. I chose to put a two color land in instead.
Uhm, acshually, Jodah Archmage Eternal technically doesnt have an activated ability 🤓
"ActHCUAllLy!!"
I have both a Hogaak and Feather deck. I do run Sol Ring in Hogaak and I'm thinking about taking it out of Feather as I lower the avg CMC closer to three.
Very interesting cut for yuriko decks as it tends to be stuck in the hand in the first 2 turns when you open it as your lines consist of turn 1 creature, turn 2 yuriko.
Also, Yuriko wants to rip High Value cards of her Ninja's damage triggers.
I personally have two examples at the moment. One is straightforward. I built a Sithis deck (which I love) where I decided that every nonland card would be an enchantment (literally every one). Since that was a deckbuilding requirement, easy answer. The second one I think is slightly more interesting. I have an Eriette of the charmed Apple deck (which I also love). It is a deck that I have officially named Aurazhov, but also refer to as "we've got goad at home". The deck is basically a very slow deck where I enchant my opponent's biggest or more dangerous threats with beneficial auras so that they can can keep on swinging with a bit of a buff, just not my direction. Then I use my commander's effect (and a few similar effects) to drain my opponent's while they hit each other. I think the biggest strength of Sol Ring, and why it is such an incredibly powerful card, is the potential for that crazy early play where you turn one or two a Sol Ring and then play out your commander early or have another explosive play. My Eriette deck does not have big explosive plays, just a slow, grindy playstyle. At best if I turn one a sol ring (which is very rare statistically) I can get my commander out one turn early, which usually doesn't matter that much, since early in the game, I usually don't have enemy creatures I want to enchant. Ultimately, I just think it doesn't provide much benefit to the deck, and I would rather play other cards, such as another aura, or protection piece, or piece of draw (STILL haven't gotten around to picking up Ashiok's Reaper, Hateful Eidolan, and Kor Spiritdancer yet).
I use mana rocks that tap for 3 colorless in my mono green ramp deck because it helps get that many more elves and spells out. I have hydras and a Junkyard Golem in that deck that benefit from them.
I have a couple of decks that don't run Sol Ring. Some of those indeed fall into the pip heavy requirements (with indeed Johda being an example).
The more interesting reason are my three intentionally low-powered decks, where including Sol Ring would make the deck better but it would be against the purpose the deck was optimised for. Not every deck is optimized to be powerful, some decks are optimized for a gamestyle where that kind of acceleration would be disruptive.
But we also have the rule where mana positive ramp costs at least 3 in the first three rounds (which is where Sol Ring really shines).
My sythis deck has sol ring. But I'm always questioning if maybe I should take it out for a different card like a ramp enchantment.
I just finished building my Ezuri, Stalker of Spheres proliferate deck and i didn’t feel the need to add Sol ring because I already have a lot of mana ramp with Biophagus, Incubation Druid, Noble Hierarch, and Birds of Paradise. I still have Arcane signet for mana fixing if needed but I also have a lot of card draw built into the deck so it’s not like i’ll miss my land drop most of the time so with all of that said i just didn’t feel the need to put Sol Ring cuz i’m playing Blue/Green that is one of the best color combinations when it comes to ramping
Such a good video good job. 👏
what's the card which scores the highest % use rate across commander?
just curious, other than land of course, i would of put it down to sol ring before seeing this vid but now i just have no clue.
I play a lot of 5 color decks and some factors I take into consideration when I think about adding or cutting Sol Ring is 1) what is my commanders cost, 2) how necessary is my commander to my strategy and 3) do I need a lot of generic mana to cast my game winning cards. For instance my Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck needs a lot of specific colors and needs to get him out as quickly as possible so I didn't add Sol Ring to it since I needed to focus on getting colors on the field whereas my Jenson Carthalion/Lurrus deck is an Ad Naus deck so I need Sol Ring to help me potentially get a turn 2 Naus. You can add Sol Ring into any deck and it be helpful but the degree to which it helps will vary with power level and playstyles
I have a grolnok the omnivore deck and the focus is getting out hedron crab and a lot of extra land drops, which triggers hedron crab, to self mill, which can give me more lands = more triggers = more lands = more triggers and I also have tireless provisioner and lotus Cobra, ashaya soul of the wild, aesi, azusa, Steve, arboreal Grazer, lab man, exploration, rites of Flourishing, ect
I built a three color extort deck years ago and I played soul ring initially but ended up cutting it for cards that helped produce more black pip mana. I had cabal coffers and urborg combo and found the deck ran a heck of a lot better than when I had soul ring draws. Having multiple instances of extort and casting a 1 mana draw spell soul ring would hinder my decks game plan. I needed color fixing more than a quick hit of colorless mana to power out early plays. Was my choice 100% correct? Probably not, but I felt like my deck ran better at the time. It was the only deck I ever cut soul ring from and won a lot more games because of it.
I always just have a set amount of mana rocks in all my edh decks. The more ramp the deck has the less rocks I run but I always auto include sol ring and arcane signet even in my obuun landfall deck. 1st turn forest to sol ring to arcane signet allows for a turn two obuun and enough mana to start ramping hard turn three which can lead to a win that turn depending on hand but usually turn 4 or 5 if not hit by removal.
I agree that personally I want flavour in my Commander decks, but also I try to use cards only once amongst my decks so I will use sol ring in a masterpiece deck I dream of making 😇. But I prefer style over substance in commander
I have a Kaalia of the Vast EDH, it's played in casual "kitchen tabletop" with friends and others at my local lgs.
I don't run Sol Ring because Kaalia puts my creatures into play for me. I also run nykthos, shrine to NYX as it helps with mana fixing while generating more than 2 colourless mana in the deck. So I haven't had any issues with it by excluding Sol Ring.
The only thing that slows me down is keeping Kaalia alive. But it's still fun to play.
I only play sol ring in my two colored decks, for 3 or more colored mana decks it can either help me in the beginning or just be useless colorless mana when i need specific colored mana to cast spells.
i got curious and checked my lists, turns out i'm running Sol Ring in only 14 of my 28 decks. there's a fair few where i'm surprised i wasn't. i think i just didn't have one on hand when i put the deck together as there's no reason not to be running it. one that i explicitly excluded Sol Ring from is Sidisi Brood Tyrant as she specifically wants to mill creatures, so i'm only running 10 nonland noncreatures
My favorite deck is my Rhys the redeemed elf / token synergy deck. Sol ring doesn’t help me cast my commander and I almost never have a mana problem due to the elves. After all of this sol ring is still one of the best cards in my deck. The only deck I’ve ever built that hasn’t had a sol ring was a Garth one eye / Jegantha companion ( WUBRG tribal) deck.
See exactly even decks where sol ring seems to do nothing to help your ‘synergy’ its still busted.
One thing that I would have thought should be brought up is budget decks as sol ring is usually around $2 and if you are doing major budget decks then there might not be space for it.
I've built multiple ultra budget ($20 or under) decks, and Sol Ring never makes it on lmao
I go back and forth with running Sol Ring in my Spellslinger deck since it wants to run a lot of cost reduction and low-cost Instants and Sorceries with an emphasis on colored mana pips, which I can cover with ritual effects if necessary. The one big reason I keep Sol Ring in my Veyran deck is because it uses an Isocron Scepter and Dramatic Reversal, so it's just a hyper-efficient way to generate infinite mana of any color between it an an Izzet Signet and/or power the handful of more expensive haymakers I use to end the game, otherwise I would probably cut it.
A buddy in my play group hates it. I built a Karlov deck years ago when I ran out of spare sol rings, still haven't put one in.
Joey VERY subtle on the Tatyova joke 😂
In "the first sliver" it doesn't help cast the commander, but also it can brick your chain of sliver cascades, it's probably still kinda good, but if you add too many rocks or non slivers then the deck won't chain cascade as consistently into getting free profain tutor or draw 3
All my decks involve sol ring, but there were 2 where I almost comsidered cutting them
Monored chandra tribal: very high red pip requirements and I run Valakut as an additional source of burn, but most of the walkers have more than 2 generic in their cost and I also got a bunch of X costed spells as finishers so sol ring can make the final few points of difference
Slivers: the usual 5c argument, especially when casting the commander or the other 5c Slivers. Reason it's still in, if not pressured I can fairly easily grt Morophon out and then for lost slivers the colors no longer matter (pulmonic is the only one I can think of off the top of my head and it's the backup of the redundancy for flying most of the time) and even without that all but 4 are 2 colors or less so a good deal of the mana costs are generic
Deckbuilding wise the part I'm the worst at is making space for lands, so one of my next decks is going to be a landfall deck, since I've learned a lot by building decks with strategies that I generally don't play