Elvis, the bullets that you powder coated and heated to 400 will test a lower bhn for a couple days but will return after about a week to the original bhn before heating them in the oven. Using 3 separate bhn testers I checked this on 19bhn bullets. After cooking on 400 for 20 min I then rechecked them on day 2/3/4/5/6/7 and all on day 7 had returned to within 1 bhn of cast hardness. Just what I have found. Something else to consider is the bhn test. It is putting an indentation in the surface. The coating is a very thin layer and softer than the lead itself therefore your bhn test on the coated bullets are not accurate. This is why I put non coated bullets in to heat with my coated ones and these are the ones you need to test and they will tell you what u need to k ow
I gotta say thanks for the info in the latest video elvis. I only cut my temp back to about 300 but what makes it so awsome is afterward i felt good about takin my rifle bullets out right after the powder coating flows over the bullets. Sure enough after the first load i observed what u said about the bullets easy release from the tray when i dumped the bullets into the quench. on my second load of rifle bullets i just tossed them all in the basket like pistol bullets. To my overwelming joy they all came out perfect just like i had placed all my rifle bullets on the tray carefully making sure that they didnt touch. So now im saving alot of time and aggravation when coating my rifle bullets. Thanks for all the great work you do and share with us all. Since i discovered your channel its become my favorite on youtube. Inicially it was the everyman approach thats so refreshing and inviting. That is still the case. the info and the process you use make your videos enlightening, second to none. I believe the simple and honest why or why not questions are not asked enough by most but you sir have not lost that inquisitive nature. you continually demonstrate that the solutions to most problems are small quests. Just a simple matter of the can do spirit, effort and common sence. Put simply anything is possible if you just try. For most unbridled possibility is a natural instinct that is dimmed by the sinacism developed with time. Your enjoyment of life and its journey is evident by the laughter and joy you show in every video. You are an inspiration on so many levels. Thanks again and dont ever change.
Between your other "marathon" video on powder coating bullets, and this one, I have to say that these two videos are the most informative and useful videos I've yet seen on the subject.
Hey Cat thank you for this Video. I've wondered about this before but had no way to test hardness. You are on the cutting edge of our endeavor to find new and better ways.
Thank you sir! This is the best method so far, did a pile of 9mm boolits today and they came out great and broke right apart. I have piles of boolits for .357, .44 and .45 to do and this is how they will be done
Great research brother, very good to know. I had noticed that after about 12-15 mins in the toaster oven that my cast bullets looked finished, but thought maybe the extra time in the oven was part of the powder coat curing process. Looks like the extra time us not required at all, also was tempted to reduce the heat but never tried that either. Don't forget your safety glasses when pounding out those bullets, a lot there that could fragment and wind up in one of the eyes. Again awesome work dude. Thanks a million.
Hi. Thanks a lot for your assume tutorial videos. Im new in the way of coating bullets. Actually i haven’t done it yet. So I’m learning, and you taught in a very pedagogical way. By the way, your accent is very nice. Me myself live close to the North pole. Scandinavia. Thanks Elvis. 😊👍🏻 Greetings Peder
toby emerson ..that's awesome! I knew you folks were out there! Thanks so much for taking the time to comment. . I was hoping to here from you guys!!! ; )
Thanks! This may even be a benefit to us crazy people that stand our bullets one at a time ...... the heat can get to the coating faster and does not need to penetrate the lead on one to heat the next one. Hmmmmm something to think about (I get in trouble when I think, I try not to do it much) . All kidding aside, you may have discovered something that will help all of us and I for one appreciate the time and effort you must have put in to this. THANK YOU!
You've hooked me on powder coating. Best is once their coated I'm no longer handling lead. The lower temps and times are very important too. I'm "off grid" and my reload room is in my shop, separate from the house. I have to run a small generator to use my toaster oven.
Very Nice! Good work Elvis, Your hard work and testing is appreciated by all of us that are powder coating like me. Thanks again. I am binge watching your vids to save me a ton of time and misspent money Thanks to your EARL laboratory :)
Thanks Elvis , I have been playing with the time ( down to 12 min. ) but have left the temp . at 400 degrees . Looks like you took it a step farther . I will give this a try . Thanks for sharing .
Hey James Pollard... Yeah.. Fortune Cookie said that somebody was shortening the bake time! you must be one of those! One thing I did was let the oven get up to 260 and lost about 3 or 4 BHN. I was getting close to the end.. I should have pulled them out. Thats how close the 250 is to tempering. just thought you should know.. that temp formula I was holding up is pretty good!
Wondering if powder coating produces advanced wear on barrel. Paper patch bullets wear the barrel though one would think paper wears hard iron or steel? But people have written about it. Wonder if whatever the coating is made from will produce accelerated barrel wear? For the average hunter shooting a few rou ds to check zero then whatever is shot during probably not. Hobby shooters shooting few hundred a month...probably but serious shooters shooting 500 a week maybe do....
Justin Conklin ...let me know what ya come up with! don't go over 250 degrees. . move up slow! if it goes up to high to fast and you got a good gloss. it don't hurt to pull em out a minute or two early!
Hey Elvis I tried your method and it works great. I tried something a little different though. I preheat the oven on 250 and put the bullets in. Drops the temp to 185. As soon as the oven temp gets back to 250 I set the timer on 10 minutes. The powder seems to melt well. It also passed the hammer test.
Great news Elvis thank you so much I'm going to make a batch this weekend of 30 cal 150gr and will try your new method on 100 of them if it kicks but for me I'll do the other 900 the same method. Keep these videos coming. You da man!
elvis ammo I shot them this weekend and they shot great. Really tight groupings and my barrel check with my borescope looks fine as well. This method seems to work well. I'll do some more testing.
Great job on figuring out time and temperature for keeping your bullets hard while curing the powder the bullets look grate...shake and bake is the best method the elvisammo method 👍
Two questions: 1) Did you do a BHN test on your powder coated bullets that were water hardened out of the mold, cooked the usual 450* method, THEN water quenched out of the oven? I wonder if water quenching then after the cook restores any of the hardness. 2) Since we are powder coating the bullets, does the actual bullet hardness matter anymore? My purpose in casting hard bullets is as a substitute for lube, and preventing barrel leading. 2a) In fact, would a softer powder coated bullet actually be beneficial, as it would be able to better expand under pressure to form a better seal to the barrel?
According to the technicians at Lyman water quenching only put a surface hardness on the bullet and when you size them it takes the surface off so you have really gained anything by water quenching
I did experiment with powder coating my .25 cal slugs and pellets for my air guns.I did them at 160 degrees for 20 minutes and they turned pretty good.This was the first time I did it.I have a 350 Legend on the way and plan to cast bullets for it.I also have plans on getting a 450 BushMaster.
hey The Reloader Dude... Water quenching after powder coating does nothing for the BHN. But it would be possible to heat treat them close to the melting point for a couple hours or more. Then quench.
Hey Elvis ! First let me say this I can't thank you and F.C. with Johnny also for what you guys do ,with the help you guys give Us in this .I will pass this along to all my reload freinds (just make them think I am smart ) not ! thank you again My God Bless You and Yours .
I don't think the engine heat is going to be enough to hurt the tempering of the bolt over time. An engine only runs at about 200 degrees at the high end. Exhaust manifolds may reach 500-700 degrees on a average vehicle under normal operation temp. Even that shouldn't be a problem supposing your using OEM equivalent bolts. You'd have to heat those bolts to 1200-1500 maybe even 2000 degrees before you had worry about them being softened.
Hey Elvis I know this vid is a little old but I have another tip for Powder coating. Bake the bullets on non stick foil on a small cookie sheet. When the timer goes off take them right away and put them on a large cookie sheet and roll them around till they cool a little. This is how I do mine and get no flat spots or bullets sticking together. Give it a try. I see everyone waiting till they are cooled down then breaking them apart. This method works great and is much easier. Thanks for the great vids.
You were about to tell us the BHN difference before and after you water quenched the PC bullets at the lower temp at 18:55. Then you drifted to cotton on the bullets from a towel and you left out the BHN difference. It may help your viewers if you can outline your results down and show that to us in the video so you don't get sidetracked so much but I understand your excitement. We really appreciate the time you put into this. Thank you.
Great work, Elvis...!! Other commenters have been saying that PC works with shorter oven times, but you're pushing new ground with the lower temps... Gung Ho...!!
FortuneCookie45LC .. Yeah.. some crazy stuff with unexpected results so far.. Some more data and testing is needed. I'm sure I won't be the only one with good feedback.. I'm excited about what I'm seeing. . this could be a great option to control our bhn. More to come! ; )
Elvis - I was just putting another order in with Eastwood, so I bounced your PC bullets off of 'em just to get info from the source to add to yours...They said that the 400 for 20 minutes was the recommendation for car parts. But the tech said that doing other stuff like bullets, the temps and times could certainly be adjusted. What he said is that if it works, it's OK. Have a great day, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC ..Yeah, I guess I was never much for following the rules huh! ; ) I have an epoxy base pc coming. it's a much lower temp cure.. Might be just what we're looking for. My biggest hope is that it coats using the swirl method! ; ) a lot of times when someone says "no way" it just means they haven't tried anything different! thanks for the feedback from Eastwood. ...
@@elvisammo Based on several bullet casting books that I've read on the subject, wheel weight is nearly devoid of TIN. It does have about 4% antimony on average. The amount of gain from quenching wheel weight is minimal. It would be better to add about 1%-2% of TIN. This will improve BHN after quenching.
Hey Elvis, seems great minds think alike. I've been doing a similar process all along. I usually set mine to around 275* for about 10 minutes. I'll lower it to 250* and try to keep a little more bhn. I use a mixture of range scrap and ww since ww are hard to come by in my area.
Elvis, I have been casting and shooting cast bullets for over 40 years. in the end I found that wheel weights (led ones) are the best. I have tried tempering them and doing al kinds of things. I spent years shooting paper patch bullets and got good results. however shooting a powder coated bullet is much like shooting a jacketed bullet. I am therefore not convinced that hardness makes much difference. they are all too hard to expand well on game. my question is: the cast bullets that are for gas checks, do they work well with powder coating and no gas check? if I still have to gas check them, I don't see the point. how do you get the bases to be uniform, as most inaccuracies I have found are due to the bullet base irregularities. I hurts me to have to pay 30 bucks for gas checks. and I cant find a 30 cal mold that does not require them. what is your experience along these lines? steve from Texas
Look up (NOE molds), their HTC type molds are smooth wall for powder coated pills for just about all the major cals. I use a Lee mold gc for my 454 but not the 9,40,45 auto stuff. Not tried for rifle yet...I have millions of gc's for rifle and will probably use them up when the time comes up..
Just wondering if you tried the lacquer thinner test? I was using harbor freight red baked at 300 degrees for 20 minutes, the bullets passed the smash test and looked good but I got horrible leading in glock barrels. I tried the lacquer thinner test, rubbed a bullet on a rag with lacquer and the powder coat rubbed off immediately, powder coat wasn't cured. Coated more bullets with hf red and baked at 400 for 20 minutes, passed the smash test and also the lacquer test, only a very slight hint of PINK on the rag. Loaded and shot the ones baked at 400 and no leading in any of my glock barrels. Just wondering if your powder coat is really cured at that low of a temp. The lacquer thinner test is the only way to find out if your powder coat is really cured. Look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks!!
So now the previous testing that you have done with powder coated bullets and testing for expansion..... That changes now that the bullets retain their hardness ....correct?
Spot on Elvis Ammo! It was kinda funny listening to you because the method you speak of is the exact way I've been doing it. Low temp (200-250) and just keep an eye on the shine. Great information for everyone!! Keep up the good work buddy!
I need the short course on this subject but my understanding of this is we are trying to increase velocity and consistently of the bullets. What are the thin skinned varmint bullets BHN or copper? What is the max velocity of the new bullets?
Awesome, brother. I've been following you and the methods are sound. I'm partial to the Eastwood semi-gloss Black. Bullets look like the old Federal Ny-Clads. Can't wait to try the new technique. Thanks for your efforts.
I got a turkey/fish fryer that works outside over a propane powered burner. I have some large large lead ingots I bought that need a place to melt down. I was pondering on the wire backet over in an oven/toaster oven. The removable "mesh " is more of a metal area with 30% holes. ; much less than your mesh. Would using this be effective? I havent found a cheap toaster oven and can't do it in the house. Would this make sense??
Powder coat can be cured by hot air or a Halogen lamp and it only needs to get hot enough for the coating to melt without heating the lead much. And I don't remember you saying if water quenching after powder coating restored any of the hardness, so did it?
Hey there Elvis, Got a bit of a problem that I need a bit of help from you if possible. The first lot of bullets I powder coated turned out reasonably good but the second lond I tried a different powder and it didn't seem to cover the bullets too well. I even tried to give thema second coat but I wasn't impressed with the outcome. I then tried a third batch with the original powder I used the first time and it seemed to workout better. Just to make sure I gave it a second coat and baked them again and it seemed to turn out better. Can You give me an idea what the problem could be with the second lot of powder that wouldn't stick to the bullets to see if I can fix the problem here at my end. Your help is very much appreciated. Thanks
@@elvisammo i don’t actually know the brand but it’s a powder I bought online locally here in Australia. I was wondering if the container you use to mix the bullets and powder coat would make a difference ? One guy I was watching said to use a container with a number 5 recycling code on it as it produced more static charge when mixing the bullets and powder. I was sure how that would make a difference. Would using a powder coating system to actually spray the powder onto the bullets make a difference? Thanks for the help so far.
Nice job bud.........In the many many years of casting bullets using standard WW's, air cooled they'll average out around 9-10 BHN and water quenched I'll get 14-15 BHN. I've never hit 21 BHN which is about what air cooled linotype runs. I bought an LBT BHN tester from Veral Smith way back in the day (probably 1981) and it has a direct readout. I've tested and swapped bullets back and forth with guys who had the Lee and saw (sometimes) wildly varing results.........just my 2. Never tried the Saeco......
Elvis you have done it again! Does the PC hold up as well on rifle bullets with your new method? I have heard of people water quenching out of the mold then PC and baking @400 for 20 min then re-quenching out of the oven to maintain the high bhn.
heattreating the lead bullet in a oven was a method to hardening the bullet ,if you heat them to cure the bullet with powder coating ,just wat hotter and then up in cold water. seems to work wel too
Hey Elvis the pioneer! that's really good info and thank you for sharing it with all of us casters and powder coaters. I have some 230gr I'm gonna try this on tonight. Thanks bud. I'll let you know how they come out.
EA . I have watched you and Uncle Jim and Fortune Cookie with the powder coating . I dove in and got a 20 dollar toaster oven from Wallyworld and it works ! Thanks for showing us just how easy it is .
i just ordered a mold for 45 cal. black powder revolver, can powder coating be used on the bullets??? its used for hunting, will it still work in the scene that it expand !!!
Elvis, You are the man !!! great info. I hope to start casting this winter, Been collecting lead and making ingots for now, My Wilton Mini Loaf tins have made 400 plus ingots and counting.
And more also. there is a good thread going on in castboolits right now about adding copper to your alloy to toughen the bullet. Very cool. The method is that copper replaces zinc in the alloy. So you have to have some zinc in the lead to be able to add copper... more interesting zinc news there.
Hans Pcguy I tried the copper adding as suggested on cast boolits by using copper phosphate as a sort of flux. My pills came out pretty nice. Haven't tested hardness but they seemed harder while sizing and also noted a slight weight increase.
Elvis, I'm curious where the line is between heat treating and tempering. What do you think about heat treating after PC'ing? What happens to BHN if you PC @ 450F for 90 min? I just had a batch fail the smash test after 14min @ 250F. More testing needed.
Really enjoyed your vid..could you consider in the future doing one comparing powder coating pure soft lead bullets with your wheel weight bullets ...with some range testing comparing accuracy and penetration ...that would be very interesting ...even with buckshot ...Thanks
Tried today several of your theories. First was water quenching, and then powder coating and baking at different temp and time and then water quenched again. Worked ok, checked hardness and was 13.1! That was great. The only question I have is do you clean raw Bullets after first quench with anything special before you powder coat? My coverage could have been a little thicker
20 min is a bit overkill. If you want to see exactly how much time you need, get powder coat "clear" and coat some bullets. They'll appear Snow white, then when you cook them sit and watch. They'll go from snow, to wet looking, to normal lead in just a couple minutes. You can watch in real time how long they actually need to cook.
Hey Antonio Wright.. I've heard of others trying that. It's harder than it sounds. once they start to flow it's hard to get em to move. One of our viewers even tried a rotisserie oven with a cage full of bullets slowly turning.. They turned out a mess!!! : ) But was cool to see and they get an atta boy for trying!!!
How to copper colour coating bullet front part. Please help me. And my gun is old 32 caliber revolver. Please SUJEATION how to coating on revolver. Am indian
Elvis, the bullets that you powder coated and heated to 400 will test a lower bhn for a couple days but will return after about a week to the original bhn before heating them in the oven. Using 3 separate bhn testers I checked this on 19bhn bullets. After cooking on 400 for 20 min I then rechecked them on day 2/3/4/5/6/7 and all on day 7 had returned to within 1 bhn of cast hardness. Just what I have found.
Something else to consider is the bhn test. It is putting an indentation in the surface. The coating is a very thin layer and softer than the lead itself therefore your bhn test on the coated bullets are not accurate. This is why I put non coated bullets in to heat with my coated ones and these are the ones you need to test and they will tell you what u need to k ow
Thank you very much for this comment seems very underrated and unnoticed in the chat
You are a pioneer of casting! Thanks for what you do.
64samsky ..hey bud... thanks.. just hope I'm pioneering something we can all use that works! ; )
I love it. Documentation, the difference between an anecdote, and science. Thanks for the great vids Man.
I gotta say thanks for the info in the latest video elvis. I only cut my temp back to about 300 but what makes it so awsome is afterward i felt good about takin my rifle bullets out right after the powder coating flows over the bullets. Sure enough after the first load i observed what u said about the bullets easy release from the tray when i dumped the bullets into the quench. on my second load of rifle bullets i just tossed them all in the basket like pistol bullets. To my overwelming joy they all came out perfect just like i had placed all my rifle bullets on the tray carefully making sure that they didnt touch. So now im saving alot of time and aggravation when coating my rifle bullets. Thanks for all the great work you do and share with us all.
Since i discovered your channel its become my favorite on youtube. Inicially it was the everyman approach thats so refreshing and inviting. That is still the case. the info and the process you use make your videos enlightening, second to none. I believe the simple and honest why or why not questions are not asked enough by most but you sir have not lost that inquisitive nature. you continually demonstrate that the solutions to most problems are small quests. Just a simple matter of the can do spirit, effort and common sence. Put simply anything is possible if you just try. For most unbridled possibility is a natural instinct that is dimmed by the sinacism developed with time. Your enjoyment of life and its journey is evident by the laughter and joy you show in every video. You are an inspiration on so many levels.
Thanks again and dont ever change.
Those bullets are not straight in the cases .
Between your other "marathon" video on powder coating bullets, and this one, I have to say that these two videos are the most informative and useful videos I've yet seen on the subject.
Hey Cat thank you for this Video. I've wondered about this before but had no way to test hardness. You are on the cutting edge of our endeavor to find new and better ways.
I watch just to hear you say "Hey TH-cam! It's Elvis Ammo here! Hey!" Always puts a smile on my face.
Xaro Xhoan Daxos ... cool! I'll take it.... glad ya stopped by. ; )
Thank you sir!
This is the best method so far, did a pile of 9mm boolits today and they came out great and broke right apart.
I have piles of boolits for .357, .44 and .45 to do and this is how they will be done
Great research brother, very good to know. I had noticed that after about 12-15 mins in the toaster oven that my cast bullets looked finished, but thought maybe the extra time in the oven was part of the powder coat curing process. Looks like the extra time us not required at all, also was tempted to reduce the heat but never tried that either. Don't forget your safety glasses when pounding out those bullets, a lot there that could fragment and wind up in one of the eyes. Again awesome work dude. Thanks a million.
Hi. Thanks a lot for your assume tutorial videos. Im new in the way of coating bullets. Actually i haven’t done it yet. So I’m learning, and you taught in a very pedagogical way. By the way, your accent is very nice. Me myself live close to the North pole. Scandinavia. Thanks Elvis. 😊👍🏻
Greetings Peder
Thanks for sharing all your information with us.
Thank you for putting so much effort into these for us. Really enjoy your efforts... thanx
Thanks for sharing this. I don't PC because of the BHN loss. Now I have to try it out again thank you
toby emerson ..that's awesome! I knew you folks were out there! Thanks so much for taking the time to comment. . I was hoping to here from you guys!!! ; )
Thanks!
This may even be a benefit to us crazy people that stand our bullets one at a time ...... the heat can get to the coating faster and does not need to penetrate the lead on one to heat the next one. Hmmmmm something to think about (I get in trouble when I think, I try not to do it much) .
All kidding aside, you may have discovered something that will help all of us and I for one appreciate the time and effort you must have put in to this. THANK YOU!
Great stuff. Looking forward to the follow-up. I haven't started powder coating yet, but this is where I'm learning. Thanks
you will kick it off right when ya get started Rick LeClair.. Warning. Its addictive! : )
You've hooked me on powder coating. Best is once their coated I'm no longer handling lead. The lower temps and times are very important too. I'm "off grid" and my reload room is in my shop, separate from the house. I have to run a small generator to use my toaster oven.
Hey Ol' Reprobate.. Nice name by the way! : ) Less energy is a perk for sure! Thanks for taking the time to comment.....
To soften is to anneal. Tempering is hardening. Excellent job and repeatable scientific method. Thank you man!
tempering is a 2nd heat treat at lower heat after 1st hardening at high heat
Very Nice! Good work Elvis, Your hard work and testing is appreciated by all of us that are powder coating like me. Thanks again. I am binge watching your vids to save me a ton of time and misspent money Thanks to your EARL laboratory :)
I recently tried pc on 130 grain 308 win bullets at 2500 ft/sec and had excellent performance and no leading. I could smell the burned pc though.
Thanks Elvis , I have been playing with the time ( down to 12 min. ) but have left the temp . at 400 degrees . Looks like you took it a step farther . I will give this a try . Thanks for sharing .
Hey James Pollard... Yeah.. Fortune Cookie said that somebody was shortening the bake time! you must be one of those! One thing I did was let the oven get up to 260 and lost about 3 or 4 BHN. I was getting close to the end.. I should have pulled them out. Thats how close the 250 is to tempering. just thought you should know.. that temp formula I was holding up is pretty good!
Wondering if powder coating produces advanced wear on barrel. Paper patch bullets wear the barrel though one would think paper wears hard iron or steel? But people have written about it. Wonder if whatever the coating is made from will produce accelerated barrel wear? For the average hunter shooting a few rou ds to check zero then whatever is shot during probably not. Hobby shooters shooting few hundred a month...probably but serious shooters shooting 500 a week maybe do....
Well, the powder coating should be softer than the lead. I would guess no. But who knows
All I can do is thank you Elvis! you do the work, and we reap the benefits!! awesome!
Joe P ... Yes sir ... you guys keep coming by I'll keep sharing the madness! ; ) thanks for participating!
You do such a great job on your video's and can't wait to see more.
Thank you once again for the great information Elvis. Will be giving this a try.
Justin Conklin ...let me know what ya come up with! don't go over 250 degrees. . move up slow! if it goes up to high to fast and you got a good gloss. it don't hurt to pull em out a minute or two early!
elvis ammo just so happens I have about 300 rounds ready to coat. I'll let you know how mine turn out.
Hey Elvis I tried your method and it works great. I tried something a little different though. I preheat the oven on 250 and put the bullets in. Drops the temp to 185. As soon as the oven temp gets back to 250 I set the timer on 10 minutes. The powder seems to melt well. It also passed the hammer test.
Awesome Information and Progress from EARL. Thank you for being so generous of your time and with your valuable information.
Outstanding research Elvis. You are a pioneer. This is great news for PC rifle bullets. Thank you sir.
What is the Brinell number for the quenched bullets? Thanks for your work and shaing.
Great news Elvis thank you so much I'm going to make a batch this weekend of 30 cal 150gr and will try your new method on 100 of them if it kicks but for me I'll do the other 900 the same method. Keep these videos coming. You da man!
NYC Reloader Yeah! good deal... if ya get em done this weekend, I'd be glad to hear your thoughts! happy shooting bud!
elvis ammo I shot them this weekend and they shot great. Really tight groupings and my barrel check with my borescope looks fine as well. This method seems to work well. I'll do some more testing.
Great job on figuring out time and temperature for keeping your bullets hard while curing the powder the bullets look grate...shake and bake is the best method the elvisammo method 👍
Two questions:
1) Did you do a BHN test on your powder coated bullets that were water hardened out of the mold, cooked the usual 450* method, THEN water quenched out of the oven? I wonder if water quenching then after the cook restores any of the hardness.
2) Since we are powder coating the bullets, does the actual bullet hardness matter anymore? My purpose in casting hard bullets is as a substitute for lube, and preventing barrel leading.
2a) In fact, would a softer powder coated bullet actually be beneficial, as it would be able to better expand under pressure to form a better seal to the barrel?
According to the technicians at Lyman water quenching only put a surface hardness on the bullet and when you size them it takes the surface off so you have really gained anything by water quenching
I did experiment with powder coating my .25 cal slugs and pellets for my air guns.I did them at 160 degrees for 20 minutes and they turned pretty good.This was the first time I did it.I have a 350 Legend on the way and plan to cast bullets for it.I also have plans on getting a 450 BushMaster.
I been looking into this subject myself. I was wondering if just water quenching at the higher temp would keep it from changing the BHN.
hey The Reloader Dude... Water quenching after powder coating does nothing for the BHN. But it would be possible to heat treat them close to the melting point for a couple hours or more. Then quench.
Hey Elvis, I tried your method today and have to say that it works great. Although, I don't have a BNH testing device to check hardness. Thanks again.
Thanks Mick9mm.. for the info you do have. Nice to know it can be duplicated! : )
I feel like I’m watching a revolutionary legend in real time, like you’re gonna do big things when you grow up😎
Store them in a freezer to raise the hardness?
Hey Elvis ! First let me say this I can't thank you and F.C. with Johnny also for what you guys do ,with the help you guys give Us in this .I will pass this along to all my reload freinds (just make them think I am smart ) not ! thank you again My God Bless You and Yours .
Elvis what method do you use to powder coat?
Just got into reloading again going to try my hand at casting im so glad I found this video and thank you for the tip =)
Thanks a lot another good video I'm thankful for all the fork you do
So what kind of residue is in barrel after shooting Powder coated bullets?
Elvis thank you for all the info. You are the one that got me started. Have you tested on the 223 yet
I like your style! Your metallurgical theory holds water.
Love your videos bro and your intro has to be the Best 1 yet good luck on your channel and thank you for providing us with GREAT videos
Thanks pedro ramos... much appreciated! and my pleasure! : )
Question if a automotive framing bolt is powder coated what would happen to that bolt (strength etc.) Over time with heat from the motor ?
I don't think the engine heat is going to be enough to hurt the tempering of the bolt over time. An engine only runs at about 200 degrees at the high end. Exhaust manifolds may reach 500-700 degrees on a average vehicle under normal operation temp. Even that shouldn't be a problem supposing your using OEM equivalent bolts. You'd have to heat those bolts to 1200-1500 maybe even 2000 degrees before you had worry about them being softened.
Do you powder coat 308s ?? 10% tin 2% silver from lead pipe with silver joints works great.
Does powder coating the bullets prevent as much leading up the barrel of the gun?
Hey Elvis I know this vid is a little old but I have another tip for Powder coating. Bake the bullets on non stick foil on a small cookie sheet. When the timer goes off take them right away and put them on a large cookie sheet and roll them around till they cool a little. This is how I do mine and get no flat spots or bullets sticking together. Give it a try. I see everyone waiting till they are cooled down then breaking them apart. This method works great and is much easier. Thanks for the great vids.
You were about to tell us the BHN difference before and after you water quenched the PC bullets at the lower temp at 18:55. Then you drifted to cotton on the bullets from a towel and you left out the BHN difference. It may help your viewers if you can outline your results down and show that to us in the video so you don't get sidetracked so much but I understand your excitement. We really appreciate the time you put into this. Thank you.
Great work, Elvis...!! Other commenters have been saying that PC works with shorter oven times, but you're pushing new ground with the lower temps... Gung Ho...!!
FortuneCookie45LC .. Yeah.. some crazy stuff with unexpected results so far.. Some more data and testing is needed. I'm sure I won't be the only one with good feedback.. I'm excited about what I'm seeing. . this could be a great option to control our bhn. More to come! ; )
Elvis - I was just putting another order in with Eastwood, so I bounced your PC bullets off of 'em just to get info from the source to add to yours...They said that the 400 for 20 minutes was the recommendation for car parts. But the tech said that doing other stuff like bullets, the temps and times could certainly be adjusted. What he said is that if it works, it's OK. Have a great day, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC ..Yeah, I guess I was never much for following the rules huh! ; ) I have an epoxy base pc coming. it's a much lower temp cure.. Might be just what we're looking for. My biggest hope is that it coats using the swirl method! ; ) a lot of times when someone says "no way" it just means they haven't tried anything different! thanks for the feedback from Eastwood. ...
@@elvisammo Based on several bullet casting books that I've read on the subject, wheel weight is nearly devoid of TIN. It does have about 4% antimony on average. The amount of gain from quenching wheel weight is minimal.
It would be better to add about 1%-2% of TIN. This will improve BHN after quenching.
You went thru 10mins to tell me nothing. Exhausting.
Then get your free info somewhere else if it bothers you so
Much.
What ever you do don't say thanks dick.
Powder coating .22 bullets = dumb idea. No. Not watching this dude's video
Hey Elvis, seems great minds think alike. I've been doing a similar process all along. I usually set mine to around 275* for about 10 minutes. I'll lower it to 250* and try to keep a little more bhn. I use a mixture of range scrap and ww since ww are hard to come by in my area.
Elvis ammo your becoming real legend thanks for another great video
Elvis, I have been casting and shooting cast bullets for over 40 years. in the end I found that wheel weights (led ones) are the best. I have tried tempering them and doing al kinds of things. I spent years shooting paper patch bullets and got good results. however shooting a powder coated bullet is much like shooting a jacketed bullet. I am therefore not convinced that hardness makes much difference. they are all too hard to expand well on game. my question is: the cast bullets that are for gas checks, do they work well with powder coating and no gas check? if I still have to gas check them, I don't see the point. how do you get the bases to be uniform, as most inaccuracies I have found are due to the bullet base irregularities. I hurts me to have to pay 30 bucks for gas checks. and I cant find a 30 cal mold that does not require them. what is your experience along these lines? steve from Texas
Look up (NOE molds), their HTC type molds are smooth wall for powder coated pills for just about all the major cals. I use a Lee mold gc for my 454 but not the 9,40,45 auto stuff. Not tried for rifle yet...I have millions of gc's for rifle and will probably use them up when the time comes up..
thanks. please start making videos again. I understand why you don't I think, but I really appreciate your take on things. thanks, steve g.@@cobia1794
Just wondering if you tried the lacquer thinner test? I was using harbor freight red baked at 300 degrees for 20 minutes, the bullets passed the smash test and looked good but I got horrible leading in glock barrels. I tried the lacquer thinner test, rubbed a bullet on a rag with lacquer and the powder coat rubbed off immediately, powder coat wasn't cured. Coated more bullets with hf red and baked at 400 for 20 minutes, passed the smash test and also the lacquer test, only a very slight hint of PINK on the rag. Loaded and shot the ones baked at 400 and no leading in any of my glock barrels. Just wondering if your powder coat is really cured at that low of a temp. The lacquer thinner test is the only way to find out if your powder coat is really cured. Look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks!!
I have mentioned this before, although with mek. I've not seen them do this, basically, they just smash with a hammer and call cured. Lol
Awesome video Elvis. Have you heard of making rubber bullets
So now the previous testing that you have done with powder coated bullets and testing for expansion..... That changes now that the bullets retain their hardness ....correct?
So if powder coating stops the leading why do we want them to be harder?
If you water clinch after powder coating wouldn't that be the same ?
Howdy from MN, EA! What brand powder do you like to use and what is an easy way to remove lube from commercial boolits? Thank you!!
Spot on Elvis Ammo! It was kinda funny listening to you because the method you speak of is the exact way I've been doing it. Low temp (200-250) and just keep an eye on the shine. Great information for everyone!! Keep up the good work buddy!
HillBilly J .. cool beans hillbilly. ... so this sounds tried and true! thanks for taking the time to comment. .. any advice is helpful and welcome!
I need the short course on this subject but my understanding of this is we are trying to increase velocity and consistently of the bullets. What are the thin skinned varmint bullets BHN or copper? What is the max velocity of the new bullets?
Awesome, brother. I've been following you and the methods are sound. I'm partial to the Eastwood semi-gloss Black.
Bullets look like the old Federal Ny-Clads. Can't wait to try the new technique. Thanks for your efforts.
Michael Cinardo ..your welcome. .. how easy is that powder to apply? quick shake and bake? love to hear more.
I got a turkey/fish fryer that works outside over a propane powered burner. I have some large large lead ingots
I bought that need a place to melt down. I was pondering on the wire backet over in an oven/toaster oven. The removable "mesh " is more of a metal area with 30% holes. ; much less than your mesh. Would using this be effective? I havent found a cheap toaster oven and can't do it in the house. Would this make sense??
Nice work Elvis!
murphymb thankya sir... we'll see where all this goes! ; )
Elvis I dig your video's and information! KEEP ON ROCKING IT! ELVIS!!!...
Have you ever powder coated Teflon on the bullets nylon blend maybe?
So what brand powder coat are you using
Thanks for the innovative video . This info expands our range of use !
did water quenching right out of the oven increase the BHN?
I never really heard you say what the bottom line is here. Are you saying that 250 at 20 minutes works best to keep that BHN up there?
Powder coat can be cured by hot air or a Halogen lamp and it only needs to get hot enough for the coating to melt without heating the lead much.
And I don't remember you saying if water quenching after powder coating restored any of the hardness, so did it?
There pretty but do they work ?
Great R&D. Will give it a try
Thanks Elvis, your videos are so funny to watch!
nicolas pinet ..well I'm sure glad your around to watch em!! ; )
That's great news. Thanks for doing the research.
Papa's Place ..Thanks again for stopping by Pappa... !
How long am I going to have to watch this before I know what this is about?
If you want quick concise explanations you might want to find another channel. If you do stick around you will learn something!
Hey there Elvis, Got a bit of a problem that I need a bit of help from you if possible. The first lot of bullets I powder coated turned out reasonably good but the second lond I tried a different powder and it didn't seem to cover the bullets too well. I even tried to give thema second coat but I wasn't impressed with the outcome. I then tried a third batch with the original powder I used the first time and it seemed to workout better. Just to make sure I gave it a second coat and baked them again and it seemed to turn out better. Can You give me an idea what the problem could be with the second lot of powder that wouldn't stick to the bullets to see if I can fix the problem here at my end. Your help is very much appreciated. Thanks
Some powder don’t coat very easily.. what powder is it?
@@elvisammo i don’t actually know the brand but it’s a powder I bought online locally here in Australia. I was wondering if the container you use to mix the bullets and powder coat would make a difference ? One guy I was watching said to use a container with a number 5 recycling code on it as it produced more static charge when mixing the bullets and powder. I was sure how that would make a difference. Would using a powder coating system to actually spray the powder onto the bullets make a difference? Thanks for the help so far.
Nice job bud.........In the many many years of casting bullets using standard WW's, air cooled they'll average out around 9-10 BHN and water quenched I'll get 14-15 BHN. I've never hit 21 BHN which is about what air cooled linotype runs. I bought an LBT BHN tester from Veral Smith way back in the day (probably 1981) and it has a direct readout. I've tested and swapped bullets back and forth with guys who had the Lee and saw (sometimes) wildly varing results.........just my 2. Never tried the Saeco......
Elvis you have done it again! Does the PC hold up as well on rifle bullets with your new method? I have heard of people water quenching out of the mold then PC and baking @400 for 20 min then re-quenching out of the oven to maintain the high bhn.
heattreating the lead bullet in a oven was a method to hardening the bullet ,if you heat them to cure the bullet with powder coating ,just wat hotter and then up in cold water. seems to work wel too
yep peteralxben.... thats another option... I hear that can work good!
Have cci took your idea cos they do them now ?? Just a question not a statement??
do you quench your bullets straight out of the mold? Do you preheat the over to 250? or turn it on and put them in immediately?
Hey Elvis the pioneer! that's really good info and thank you for sharing it with all of us casters and powder coaters. I have some 230gr I'm gonna try this on tonight. Thanks bud. I'll let you know how they come out.
EA . I have watched you and Uncle Jim and Fortune Cookie with the powder coating . I dove in and got a 20 dollar toaster oven from Wallyworld and it works ! Thanks for showing us just how easy it is .
i just ordered a mold for 45 cal. black powder revolver, can powder coating be used on the bullets??? its used for hunting, will it still work in the scene that it expand !!!
Elvis, You are the man !!! great info. I hope to start casting this winter, Been collecting lead and making ingots for now, My Wilton Mini Loaf tins have made 400 plus ingots and counting.
hey terryp5001... Good deal brother... When you start you'll be prepared! The Wilton never dies! : )
Good info going to try this.
And more also. there is a good thread going on in castboolits right now about adding copper to your alloy to toughen the bullet. Very cool. The method is that copper replaces zinc in the alloy. So you have to have some zinc in the lead to be able to add copper... more interesting zinc news there.
Hey Hans Pcguy, yeah been thinking about a mix like this, Didn't know there was a thread.. i'll see if I can find it. A interesting subject!
Hans Pcguy I tried the copper adding as suggested on cast boolits by using copper phosphate as a sort of flux. My pills came out pretty nice. Haven't tested hardness but they seemed harder while sizing and also noted a slight weight increase.
Good info Elvis,
thanks again treesablowin!!
What type of container is that ?
That the bullets are in ?
Elvis, I'm curious where the line is between heat treating and tempering. What do you think about heat treating after PC'ing? What happens to BHN if you PC @ 450F for 90 min? I just had a batch fail the smash test after 14min @ 250F. More testing needed.
Really enjoyed your vid..could you consider in the future doing one comparing powder coating pure soft lead bullets with your wheel weight bullets ...with some range testing comparing accuracy and penetration ...that would be very interesting ...even with buckshot ...Thanks
Having problems with harbor freight flat black. What temp does it start sticking and not clumping at preheat and shake?
That’s some pretty nasty stuff! Yes heat the bullets up to may be about 150° put them in shake them fast and get them out
Do very small batches at a time that will help
Thx
Made a fair batch. Thanks for pointing me down the right path. There is a learning curve.
Did water quenching after powder coating increase BHN?
Tried today several of your theories. First was water quenching, and then powder coating and baking at different temp and time and then water quenched again. Worked ok, checked hardness and was 13.1! That was great. The only question I have is do you clean raw Bullets after first quench with anything special before you powder coat? My coverage could have been a little thicker
This is very interesting. Why do the powder companies say 400 deg for 12 minutes.
20 min is a bit overkill. If you want to see exactly how much time you need, get powder coat "clear" and coat some bullets. They'll appear Snow white, then when you cook them sit and watch. They'll go from snow, to wet looking, to normal lead in just a couple minutes. You can watch in real time how long they actually need to cook.
Have you ever tried using a flat silicon pan and periodically shaking it or gently rocking the oven to prevent bullets from sticking?
Hey Antonio Wright.. I've heard of others trying that. It's harder than it sounds. once they start to flow it's hard to get em to move. One of our viewers even tried a rotisserie oven with a cage full of bullets slowly turning.. They turned out a mess!!! : ) But was cool to see and they get an atta boy for trying!!!
How to copper colour coating bullet front part. Please help me. And my gun is old 32 caliber revolver. Please SUJEATION how to coating on revolver. Am indian
I need 40 308 rounds got any?
theTIVANshow hey Tivan... you loading them?
elvis ammo no sir lock and load needed. Get a minute please call