Canon C400... My Thoughts (R5 C & RED SHOOTER)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- My thoughts on the specs for the newly announced Canon C400. How does this compare to RED KOMODO and SONY BURANO?
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I shoot with a R5C never been disappointed with the quality that comes out on my personal projects... I want that c400 !!
Spot on Ash!! Your opening comment about people being underwhelmed... is shocking. I bought one yesterday. I know I can get serious mileage out of this bad boy. Paired with my 24-105 2.8 is gonna be my do all. I'm gonna sell one of my C70's and probably my R5c. I made a deal with myself. I will not add to my arsenal. I will replace. So if I wanna trade up I gotta trade out. It's to easy to just keep stuff you don't use around. The C400 is stupid good for all the reasons you mentioned and more. If you'd buy a Burano over this camera without eco systems as a measure I'd be shocked. Technically you could buy 3 C400's and CFB cards for all at the same nut. Crazy. Thank you Canon!!
Fantastic man. Yeah, that combo is just gonna be hard to beat by anybody. Nice plan to trade out old for new equipment. I am not capable of such discipline but it is probably one I should adopt, lol.
Congrats on the purchase. I just dropped a pretty penny on audio recording equipment for my music in studio so, not the right time for me to pull the trigger on another large purchase at the moment. I could however, very much see the possibility of picking up one of these bad boys early next year before a particular commercial project I have lined up with travel.
Awesome review Ash, right to the point and non trigger finger. I’m in the same boat with the Komodo and c70. Honestly I love the combo, and like the form factor!
Ha, very similar combo you have to my Epic & R5 C, indeed. It is such a powerful combo that I don't need the C400. But man... it does look like a fun all in one camera to go anywhere with, minus Photo capabilities. For people in the market of buying, the look of the footage, feature set, and price point make a pretty compelling candidate to go with.
Great take, thank you. I also own an R5C, but I just paid for a C100 Mk II along with 17-55 2.8 lens for just over £1k, which only outputs 1080p, for the ergonomics and internal ND. Like you said, everything is good now. I’m the one who needs to get better.
Pretty amazing what you can get in the used market for so cheap now. NICE!
I've been on the verge of jumping to Sony, mostly because so many of my colleagues are on Sony and Canon has been slow the last few years. With the announcement of the c400, I am going to wait to see if Sony announces an FX6 Mark II within the next few months and what that might look like. But I do prefer Canon color on my R5c, c70 and xf605. I have also found that my Ronin 4d 8k matches well with my Canon. Thanks for the video.
Great vide and thoughts...I do wish they will ad non-raw 6k formats that is the only thing that I'm missing. The price and what you get for is really amazing. Will see maybe I replace my c70 with it depending on what R5mk2 brings to the table,
btw I subbed love the Chanel
Thanks buddy! Yeah, I wonder if they will add 6K in a compressed container through a firmware update at some point. That being said, on my Canon R5 C, I can edit the 8K RAW files pretty well on my PC. But, the R5 C's 8K compressed melts my computer and I can't use it at all in Premiere. Way too much math going on for it.
I have a 16 core system with 128GB or RAM and GeForce RTX 3090.
Please make a video on R5 C Firmware Version 1.0.7.1
One day I hope Canon fixes their metadata annoyance. On the 300ii/300iii/500ii models, the reel numbers always change from CFslot1 to SDproxy, before going from CFslot1 to CFslot2. Why wouldn't the proxy card just be called "Proxy" and let the reel numbers just advance on the full raster CF cards? I just don't understand it, what am I missing?
Interesting. It is weird how little things like that add up to big headaches for editors and could be easily addressed.
Still keeping my R5C regardless of C400. 8K 60P FF, for $5800AU is cheap, no other competitor can match that.
I do stills photography as well which neither the C70 or C400 can do, so the hybrid shines for scenarios like that.
I dislike the mini XLR output but it's to keep the small form factor. No option for Open Gate 6:5 or 4:3 yet the BlackMagic Pyxsis 6K PL mount FF is cheaper and gives you more options for Anamorphic.
I'm right there with ya on keeping my R5 C should I choose to invest in a C400. I have quite a few videos talking about and showing how I have been using it more than my RED in a lot of situations. It's also the stealth camera option for those environments where you would possibly need permission to be filming at... but they allow picture taking.
The Pyxsis is a very nice option at the price point it is. It however would need more money to get it up and running with additional attachements. However, that would indeed come in still lower than this $8k body. Obviously, there are still many advantages to the c400 over the Pyxsis for the price bump and you have the Canon Look when you want it.
I think the c400 will be a good combination with R5C, I have 3 R5C but I never do 8k, even tho I think R5C is just amazing, as you said, 8k 60fps under 4000 dlls it is awesome, maybe looking for a c400 after R5 Markll is announced
@@rojoneutro Yeah, amazing combo. Very tempting. I too am curious what they will offer in the R5 II keeping in mind, it is still not the R5 C II. I would assume it will be slightly handicapped in the video department. Other than Built in ND and the physical cinema body, I am scratching my head to figure out what they would offer in a R5 C II that doesn't cannibalize the C400 sales if the keep it 8K, increase DR, and add triple base ISO?
Imagine all the Canon c500 Mark ll,c300 Markll owners, Canon's "Cinema RAW Light/Raw 12-Bit"',vs Red's "REDCODE RAW" Red's has a slightly advantage.
The way editing programs handle REDCODE truly is the best editing experience I have. It also has more fine tune adjustment options of the RAW codec. However, I with my Canon R5 C RAW sitting in the same timeline with my R3D files, I never feel like I am missing a specific option the R3D file offers natively to get the look I want. The difference between the 12bit and 16bit is often not experienced. I have a hard time feeling like 12bit RAW is not enough to get wild color pushes if I want them.
@@AshvonChamierwhat about the highlight roll off of the sun? It’s night and day. Also, the canon c400 video had such contrast and extreme black shadows. I can’t tell the difference with a c300 mk1 and c400.
@@CrossCory Which C400 video are you referring too? Happy to take a look. So much has to do with color grading decisions in the department of shadows. I am blown away by how much shadow detail I can get out of even my R5 C which is only rated at 12.5 stops in RAW.
@@AshvonChamier Thanks for your response, it’s the video with the official canon video where they are in a theater and then out on a balcony in daylight. The inside shots looks extremely dark and contrasty. I’ve also seen videos in the past comparing c300 mkiii to Red dragon x (I believe) and the highlight roll off on the sun was very smooth on the Red. Also, I saw a video from another review online and they said the under exposure/over exposure on the camera isn’t as good as the C300/500.
@@CrossCory Sure thing, it's a fun conversation! Well, I really think that the crushed blacks was a decision in post. I crush my black sometimes as well. It is supposed to be scary... however, not the most terrifying short film I have seen, lol. As far as the highlight rolloff at the end, I really don't see any issue with it. Looks great to me.
The LATITUDE test that is done by CVP here: th-cam.com/video/Lqn9Alkj5bU/w-d-xo.html
shows the C300 beating the C400 slightly in the overexposure. But that is expected because of the DGO sensor rated at 16.5 stops vs the C400's 16 stops. They apparently did not use the DGO sensor in order to offer higher frame rates and less rolling shutter. I think the tradeoff is worth it, and again, 6K RAW, FULL FRAME, and TRIPLE NATIVE ISO. That puts it way ahead of the C300 for me. It also beats the pants off the C300, Sony FX6 (hold color better and offers 3200ISO), Sony Burano, and RED Raptor for underexposure if you take advantage of the TRIPLE NATIVE ISO.
You almost sold me, I’m going to sit and watch too. I was wanting the Raptor X, but man $$$$, could I live with less frame rates and Super35? Hmmm. Then this came along 😳🤔
Yeah... plus those built in ND's, higher quality Auto-Focus for gimbal work, and triple base ISO for insane low light options... all for less money with a camera ready to go out of the box... pretty enticing. lol
@@AshvonChamier the only problem with these 10 and 12 bit prosumer cameras, is they all have this bleached bypass look to the colour and it’s driving me nuts. I don’t know.
I have been waiting for Sony to make their next move in the FX line since I want to have a ISO 12800 cine camera in my kit. But the C400 seems very compelling for this size and price point. The only thing that seems out of step is the SD slot. I would be okay with sequential recording (rather than simultaneous so the C500 still has a feature bump), but definitely hate the idea of working around the SD slot for years to come.
I have had no issue with performance of using this same CF and SD card slot combo featured in the Canon R5 C. The sub recorded 4K XF-AVC I capture while filming in 8K RAW is very nice. A completely safe backup I could work with in a final edit but also doubles as a Proxy when wanting faster performance in my NLE.
@@AshvonChamier Most of the time I shoot RAW, so to me the SD slot is like having an appendix…useless. And no, it’s not particularly difficult to monitor the remaining storage space on the CFExpress and swap between takes but for $8000 I’m expecting I will get matching media slots in this day and age. Oh well. Is what it is.
I would not complain if it was two CFExpress, lol. Sounds nice. But even if it did, I don't think it would be able to handle the processing of two 6K RAW streams at once...? Would it? So if it would still be limited processing wise to make the same sub recording files as what we can achieve on SD cards that are cheaper, I can roll with that.
@@AshvonChamier I prefer the Blackmagic approach where the proxies go into a sub folder. On the BMCC if the CFExpress card runs out then the camera can roll over to an external SSD, and on the Pyxis (only $3000) the camera will auto swap to the second CFExpress slot. That’s what I would have requested if given the chance.
Right on. Solid approach there as well.
Which would be the better combination with the Canon R5c, Red's Komodo X with Electronic Global Shutter ,or Canon's c400 which is apart of Canon's own ecosystem.
I can get the the Canon to match very well with my RED. However, 2 would have to assume for matching, the C400 is going to better given it is all living in Canon Color Science.
Canon basically just whiped out both REDs and Sonys Cine camera lineup. Both on price and specs.
It's very impressive indeed. Super curious to see what they do with their next mirrorless offering too. They have 6 new cameras registered apparently. This was just the one they are announcing now.
@@AshvonChamier There is another Cinema camera in the works somewhere. We don't know, if it lands between the C700 and C500 series or between the C200 and C70 series. And on the mirrorless side, the R1 development has been announced and the R5 Mk II are due.
@@EmeraldAudiovisual a c70 replacement type or style camera makes sense. fx3 is killing everybody. The r1 could be cinema based though... I don't think many people especially canon users are trying to buy a camera at is over 10k in this economy with this competition. That meaning said they do need a flagship 8k cinema camera just for the sake of it even though not many will buy it.
@@EmeraldAudiovisual It's an exciting time for sure. This price point though, I think is going to be winner for sales in their cinema line.
@@RayValdezPhotography I am in agreement!
This camera just killed FX6, FX9, and Burano.
I think I have to agree. You could own two of these, each with a top of the line RF mount lens for the same price as the Burano Body.
@@AshvonChamier Yeah. And I say this as an FX9 owner. C400 does everything my FX9 does and more while not killing my back and needing battery swaps all the time.
@@sa.t.2507 Just to have said, I am SONY fan still myself. I love all these cameras. I still have my Sony FS700 sporting an Odyssey 7Q+ for 4K RAW and ProRes. I have paired it with my RED EPIC many times. But this Canon at that price... pretty fantastic.
I mean...I would wait for Sony to announce their future plans for the FX line before writing an obituary, but that's just me.
@@vorjay Totally reasonable stance. If I was in the market to buy a camera in September when this camera launches and Sony still had no announcements though, this would probably be the pick. ESPECIALLY if you have already invested in some RF glass. Sony really needs to offer some internal RAW at this point.
No dual CF express cards, mini XLR, less DE than my C300M3, ( it’s important to have those clean stops of DR in the low lights thanks to the DGO and the image coming out of sensor has an analog-like characteristic).
As for the bit depth, I’d take R3D 16bit on a Nikon Z9 anytime now, ( already shoot RAW internally up to 60p in 8K for… $4000 ;-)
*DR
**organic characteristic
The sub-recording at 4K XF-AVC done by the SD card slot has been fantastic for me on my R5 C. So I have no complaints there. The C300MIII does indeed have a half a stop more dynamic range. But, the what you get on the C400 as a tradeoff is so much... I really think it is worth it.
• Full Frame
• Higher Frame Rates
• Less Rolling Shutter
• Triple Base ISO
• 6K RAW
• RF Mount
Seeing R3D files in a Nikon will most definitely be something I am interested to see if happens. I don't know where that will place the RED line of cameras? Am I correct in understanding Nikon let everyone that was working on RED go?
I don’t know but I wouldn’t be surprised, knowing that the psychological profile of those multinational companies is « psychopathic », literally.
My favorite camera is the Alexa35, and yet it has no FF.
Good point on the Alexa35... but the Alexa image is something else. My favorite look but very pricey.
Subscribed! Will you sell your R5c to get a C400?
Thanks! I don't really need this camera, at least, not yet. I have a RED EPIC 6K Dragon and a Canon R5 C. However, toward the end of the year, I have projects lined up that will require more travel. The C400 could would be the most professional/portable single camera solution. So... maybe I would pull the trigger then. That being said, NO on selling the R5 C. Even if I get this camera, the R5 C is the STEALTH BEAST o get away with filming under the radar and has 8K, which really comes in handy for some of my Car To Car filming. Plus the option for me to get more into photography. The R5 C and C400 pair would be fantastic.
It is strange that Canon is competing on price.. that is very telling.
It's competitive out there. I think where we arriving at, as specs begin to top out on cameras with diminished possible improvements, is people will really have to hone in more on the official brand look they favor. That is not something that can be written on paper, it is just the mojo each brand kind of carries and what you think works best for the majority of you projects. Other than that, I could see the auto features of cameras launching into a new stratosphere over the next 5 years with A.I. implementation.
@@AshvonChamier Yes, they used to be the only real option in certain sectors
log2 is good but wish the c400 was 16 bit
It would be nice, but 12 bit RAW for color grading on the R5 C has been a dream in regards to results. For results, it carries right along side my RED. But... the RED's R3D files are the smoothest editing flow of any RAW out there. That is an advantage in RED's camp... even more than the difference between it being 16bit color vs my R5 C's 12bit.
It's definitely a nice step up, but would you choose it over an Arri / arriraw? I totally get that the price point is very different
If I could have an Alexa Mini LF NEW or with reasonably low hours for this price point, I would take the Arri without hesitation. LOL. The only scary thing about it would be if it needed repair later for any reason, that might be an astronomical price.
@@AshvonChamier very true... Although to give my perspective, when I started, an Arri 535 kit was around 500k (plus lenses) it's really wonderful that in this time, so much can be made with so little. We quibble over bits and resolution (which is fun to geek out to) but the real goal is to make something great. There have been academy award nominated super 16 films. How much 8k do we really need? Lol
Yeah, ultimate picture quality for the closest thing to film... I believe is the Arri Alexa. But, this C400 comes so equipped in a single package... it might be the most feature rich offering for the money on the market to handle any situation.
Crippled the Burano? Not at all. I've been using the Burano for over 2 months now amd its nothing short of amazing. Cannon doesn't really compare to the Burano as there is no Ibis, no 16 bit raw, no 8k. Not to mention adaptors are needed on all the plugs at the back of the c400 which is a real pain. I've used the c500 for a few hundred hours and the c400 is comparable to that. But as a color grader and cinematographer, the Burano is far superior with handheld doco makimg, post production color retention, lattitude amd quality. Ir Pollution seems non existant and the only thing I've hated is the view finder. No other camera provides ibis on PL mounts or 5 axis stabilization on e-mounts with Raw. The fx 6 is still the best competitor to the c400 as it's currently the benchmark until Sony updates this in the next 6 months or so. Competition is good and keeps Sony on its toes, but I would have liked to see Ibis and at least 13 bit Raw like the alexa or 16bit like the Sony. The readout speeds on the c400 at 6k 50fps is very similar to the burano but thats never been an issue. The reason why Sony and Panavision were able to steer the film industry to digital instead of film in the early 2000's is because of high quality 16bit Raw capturing -until Red patented it 7 years later. 16bit is the holy grail of high image quality, it seems that RED and Sony are the only companies on this band wagon. Arri processes its images in 16bit, but saves them in 13 bits which is still much higher than 12bit. These details may not be significant for online productions, but high end doco making will require these options.
I respect your points and definitely know without doubt the Burano is an amazing camera. I have not used it but followed along reviewing many of the test and reviews upon it's initial release. The points that seemed a bit disappointing, in particular at it's price point of $25K vs the $8K price point offered in the C400 were...
• The 6K Full Frame Crop Mode was significantly softer than it's 8K Full Frame and 5.8K Super 35 Mode. 6K Full Frame is the sweet spot for many productions. That is exactly what the C400 offers and it's focus is to be pristine at exactly that formula.
• No Full Frame 4K 120p vs C400 does have full frame 4K 120p and 180p in HD.
• It is very interesting that you have not experienced any IR pollution as that was a specific thing I saw examples of that was surprising. You can find those on this solid DP's video here: th-cam.com/video/-ye5-g9tfNQ/w-d-xo.html
• The amount of Rolling Shutter is a little suprising, again, at that price point. When you cross a $20K threshold in todays market of competitive pricing of feature rich cameras.
I just get a bit more nit picky to justify forking out literally 3x the price. That does NOT MEAN though, that the Burano is not an insane camera, it most certainly is a filmmakers dream camera. Very very nice. If it was priced at $15K, that would make it very competitive. Where it is priced at now, I think is more attractive to specifically Sony Shooters who just love Sony. The thing is, I love SONY also! I have shot with Sony's for years. I have just been using Canon with My RED more the last 3-4 years. I too am very curious to see what Sony offers to replace the FX6.
In regards to 8K, I do like using 8K on my Canon R5 C. There are times where that resolution definitely pays off for particular applications. However, I never feel like I am missing that extra resolution when I film with my RED Dragon 6K. So 6K really is plenty. Furthermore, I have been blown away when color grading my Canon R5 C Raw LT 12bit to my 16bit R3D files from my RED. The difference between the 12bit and 16bit is nowhere near the massive jump that 8 or 10bit is to 12bit. The canon color is very good and so easy to grade 99% of the time.
While the mini-XLR ports on the C400 are unusual, I appreciate the small for factor and ergonomics they seem to have pulled off on the camera and do not mind. The triple base ISO is extremely attractive to me as well.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the channel though. The conversation is fun and nice to hear how well the Burano is working out for you productions.
Canon said that the C400 is their Mid-Tier camera. I need to know if the DR is equivalent or better than the C70.
It is rated at 16 stops vs the C70's 16.5. BUT... they did that so they could offer higher frame rates, less rolling shutter. I think the trade off is worth it as 16 stops is still tremendous. Also... it is full frame vs C70 Super35. Not sure if it also had anything to do with adding their ability to introduce the Triple Native ISO?
@@AshvonChamierDoes it have higher frame rates than the C70? I read that I goes up to 180fps in S16 mode just like the C70.
Also, I also read that it doesn’t have AF for 120fps which is weird, considering the C70 does.