100% snake oil. Nearly all supplements are. Only caffeine and creatine have been studied and produced reliable results. If you want to boos testosterone and improve grip strength you need to: Get good sleep, eat real whole food, manage stress and workout 2-5 times a week. Include cardio and weight lifting.
@amalekedomiteso people cant joke about things they love? Lower decks fees like it cares about past shows not that it hates them. Discovery on the other hand spits on older shows while thumping its chest like a moron.
Same thing with Star Wars. KK loathed the EU, but when hard up for ideas, she was ready to raid it for assets like Grand Admiral Thrawn. I’m amazed the Yuzhan Vong hasn’t been trotted out.
Everyone had to know that Discovery was eventually going to be erased when they made Spock crazy and put him in an institution and gave him an adopted human sister. They completely disregarded everything that came before.
How did that disregard anything that came before? Genuine question: how did that conflict with canon? I don’t understand this perspective 💙 Please don’t dismiss this question out of hand
I personally never had an issue with JJ Abrams version, mainly because it didn't try to deceive us and flat out said it was an alternate timeline. It gave us a way to have ongoing original trek, updated with modern CGI and technology as we already had a good chunk of window dressing tech in modern times already that didn't exist in 1963 i.e. cell phones, tablets, and LCD screens.
If I was the judge in that lawsuit I would have ordered the entire franchise to be spun off into its own separate company Star Trek Productions and only given CBS and Paramount 20% stake each so neither could dictate actual content or story lines while the 60% would be in the hand of capable people who care about the Roddenberry vision and canon.
STD tried to recreate Trek into something that revolved around one character, its lore cancer. The future they depicted is really dumb and would cripple all future Trek material.
Every Kurtzman Trek series always revolved around a single person. Trek worked best as an ensemble piece or a trio of leads with differing personalities and philosophy.
I like Admiral Vance but otherwise Discovery's constant identity crisis and Burnham fixation just hurt it. The timeskip in the final episode just reinforced that no other character mattered whatsoever to the showrunners.
STD wanted to be any other Scifi instead of Star Trek. Star Wars. Battlestar Galactica. Terminator. Farscape. Babylon 5. They don't even TRY to be Star Trek until the last season and by then they did so in the stupidest way possible, which is still more Babylon 5 than Star Trek. And it does a terrible job emulating all these other franchises.
@@WyldStallion-bs9oo The main reason is because of the showrunner. Terry Matalas did a great TV adaptation of "12 Monkeys" before getting tapped for Picard. From what I know of Season 2, ironically he didn't do so hot with another time travel plot but all the Easter Eggs back to 12M in Picard Season 3 were such a nice touch.
yes I don't think anyone likes having an STD...but seriously it should never have been made in the first place such horrible rubbish to subject true fans to and it is incredible to think they thought they were making something as a prequel to TOS that we would actually like and continue to watch. I watched one season to see if it grow on me but no it was disgusting so out of touch with what true Star Trek fans could ever want. I did watch different episodes from time to time to see if it would ever get any better from time to time and from what I saw it seemed as if it was just getting worse and worse. I watched a couple of episodes of them in the distant future and found the story lines so un-inspiring and pathetic
@@happychappy492 Science Fiction it is, Star Trek it is NOT. If it did not include Star Trek in it's name and any Star Trek references, I might have given it some leeway. Klutzman was just too frightened to do that and tried to sell it as Star Trek to tap into the Star Trek Universe. Don't under- estimate the power of the Force of die-hard TOS fans.
It is sad how much damage has been done to most of the beloved sci fi franchises. Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr. Who, all have been trashed by the owners now.
@@Vash85 Just do what the rest of us SW fans do and ignore it as cannon and enjoy the best that have gone before in a galaxy far far away a long long time ago...at least we still have that ahh good times
I'm 100% glad it was removed from Canon, that said... From the 3rd season forward, it's a good show, with a terrible protagonist, but worth watching IMHO.
@@jerryrehard7711 Actually without canon there is no continuity and thus, no stakes. STD couldn't keep it's own canon from episode to episode in certain cases... let alone season to season. Add to that the lore violations that stem from continuity of canon and there is no point watching STD when it happily breaks verisimilitude for the rule of one writer deciding their way is better than 'the' way.
@@davfree9732 Too often these days, people will point to Nimoy or others saying they weren't fond of the idea of "canon". With respect to the late greats who expressed such sentiments, it's a bit hypocritical. They cared about what their characters did given their history, personality, and other traits which are as much a part of canon as anything. Nimoy helped develop quite a bit of it and was actually annoyed when TNG was announced because he saw it as trying to "catch lightning in a bottle" again. Another good example is how George Takei of all people got put off by the JJ films making Sulu bat for the other team. In his mind, the character of Sulu was straight but the "creative" team decided to pander and he actually didn't appreciate it. If there is no internal consistency to a story in its events or characters, then why even label new parts of it as though they belong with the rest?
@@davfree9732 I'm not attacking the idea of canon in general. I'm just saying that if we viewers want to think that a bad spin off like discovery never happened then it is our choice and right to do so. I totally agree with you on the rest of your post.
I'm going to say it: I have a lot of respect for the Star Trek writing staff if this is true. This is far more respect being shown towards the viewer than we are likely to see from Star Wars or Dr Who any time soon.
I only consider the movies of the kelvin line canon as it continues into a separate timeline. Considering the choice was do that or have to comeup with a completely new series on a later Enterprise due to actors aging out of the believable military ages. That being said I wouldnt have minded if they did a series of say like Tirmeship Enterprise J or something along those lines.
@@Revkor No one really gives a crap about continuity issues. They only get brought up because the show itself is awful. Enterprise, though stumbling out the gate, finished off as a real Star Trek show. Nothing made since has even come close. That is the issue at play here.
@@Revkor that is the problem with making prequels, they are so limited to what they can do and need dozens of researcher to make sure nothing breaks canon so they ay f it we will just do w/e we want and it always ends up breaking canon.
@@Athrin01 but not that hard. some of the big issues was have cloaking devices around a century before kirk would run into them and do the romulan war with earth. not hard. heck Rogue one did it right by keepign continuity. there will be minor slip ups but if you don't mess up the big ones you are fine. JJ trek and ENT messed up big ones. but credit to Enterprise when show runners changed it got more inline with canon.
@amalekedomite continity is a key part why it stumbled. having cloaks around 100 years before kirk then why is kirk so surprised to run into it. lack of continuity is the first step of bad writing.
If I was the judge in that lawsuit I would have ordered the actual franchise to be spun off into its own separate company Star Trek Productions and only given CBS and Paramount 20% stake each so neither could dictate actual content or story lines while the 60% would be in the hand of capable people who care about the Roddenberry vision and canon.
How can they come up with a ship that's waaaaay more advanced than the one replacing it? It's disgusting to see what they did to the Klingons and Ferengi. They need to completely delete this woke abination from cannon.
@@nicholase82 you'd have to see it. just google ferengi star trek discovery. Basically, do you remember how the old lady ferengi looked like of DS9? Kind of like that. Terrible.
My problem is that ever since ENTERPRISE, they have been constantly doing prequel reboots of the original STAR TREK as if they are trying to say that the original 1960s series was an embarrassment and needed to be improved. They rewrite the past for their own fan service.
Let's be real: Fans determine the canon of a series by their support to keep it alive or not (even Deadpool and Wolverine implied this with their "Anchor Being" stuff.) Disney Star Wars had not now, nor ever, been canon. Same with JJ Abrams/Kurtzman Star Trek, modern Doctor Who, Marvel and DC comics past 2014, or the entire MCU (with no X-Men or Spider-Man throughout most of its history.) We don't need the "official source" to tell us something isn't canon; we already know none of this is.
+1 for pointing out that Marvel and DC comics haven't been canon since at least 2014. Even before then, the companies tried rebooting those universes more than twice.
@@CountAdolfo In fact, Kelvin Timeline is not legally canon. Abrams wanted the royalties on all the Star Trek products that Bad Robot produced. So he legally purchased a license agreement from CBS/Viacom, Paramount who separately owned Star Trek tv and Star Trek films. The "Prime" timeline is a license he came up with and that all these studios have been using. It is absolutely not canon.
Reality is that “canon” doesn’t really matter. Canon is more a dogmatic corpo speak by producers. Most people don’t care they just enjoy or don’t enjoy a project and move on. Producers constantly change and ignore ideas from previous sources at various levels. Like Roddenberry considered TAS, ST5 and a few assorted show episodes as non-canon for later producers to acknowledge and use them as canon. LD for example is strongly tied to TAS materials. SNW chose to acknowledge ST5. Producers of Voy made an active attempt to ignore Eugenics Wars in 1996. Producers of DS9 both acknowledged Eugenics Wars but have noted in interviews at the time of its production they chose to ignore them as being set in 1996. They consider Spock as wrong and that khan’s reference in ST2 was being ignored. ENT placement is vague…. But there is a line that implies 20th century for augment technology but doesn’t specify when the eugenics wars take place.
Deadpool and Wolverine was so mid and that anchor being thing never made any sense. The universe didn't end because it didn't have Wolverine, it ended because the last 2 movies were terribly written.
Skydance, in recent years, has made anti woke shows and movies because it realizes it's easier to make money (and lots of it) if you give the fans what they want instead of what you want.
In the first ten minutes of the pilot for STD, I spotted so many problems with cannon that I dumped out. I realized the producers did not respect Star Trek and " without respect, we reject" became a mantra to me the first time I heard that phrase.
I have maintained from the beginning that STD was in an alternate universe or timeline, with its fans arguing that "what you think doesn't matter, CBS says it's canon, so it is!" Ha, ha!
I had the same thinking given the vastly different style and character development arcs but have been told I'm reading too much into it. Things that make you go hmmm....
There should be some universal “code” that all fans agree on, like for example if more than 10% of a new work is incongruent with original canon then it is AUTOMATICALLY defaulted to non-canonical status. ESPECIALLY if the original creator(s) has no input.
I'm a member of Lower Deck's audience. I loved it far more than I ever "enjoyed" Discovery, Picard, or Strange New Worlds. At least Lower Decks referenced past continuity in far more reverent (if not joking) ways than the recent live action series have.
I liked Lower Decks too… granted the first season was kinda rough, but in the end, yes, it was a parody, but the Lower Decks writers had a lot more love for the original material than the writes of STD ever did.
It was absurd to have the female lead be named “Michael,” she was totally insufferable, and a Mary Sue. What they did with the Klingons was criminal. None of the characters were particularly cool or relatable, and, as you stated, the writers were totally obsessed with LGBT politics. Traditionally, Trek writers have had a sense of subtlety set in a hopeful view of the future, not this hamfisted crap.
It's extremely comforting to know that, no matter what garbage the current crop of clowns create, real Star Trek remains uncontaminated and uncorrupted, preserved as it was as of 2005. They can't change it. And eventually, the clowns will go away and we will again have real Star Trek from the original IP.
Discovery could have been amazing if they had stuck to the lore and stayed true to the ideals that made star trek so beloved. But no, they had to put their own spin on it and now they're suffering the consequences.
They should have stayed with the story, tech, and concept between ENT and TOS. The Romulan war could have been explored or the Izar conflict could have been shown to explain how Garth of Izar got his reputation.
Even in the far future, Discovery was doing damage. Because it completely erased the whole notion that there were timeships and temporal powers at work. The show ruined everything is touched, and it should indeed be consigned to the darkness beyond time. Hopefully it doesn't find Lavos there...
Since Strange New Worlds crossed over with Discovery, that would mean Strange New Worlds is not "canon" either. And the upcoming "Section 31" builds on both, so it would not be "canon" either. In reality, in a series where you have parallel universes, alternate timelines, and multiversal shenanigans, everything can be "canon" somewhere, somewhen.
Stamping your own brand of shit onto someone else's work seems to be a modern trend. I think Star Trek and Star Wars are beyond recovery at this point. I just tune out when I hear about remakes or reboots anymore.
My understanding of the whole 25% different thing is that Bad Robot/Secret Hideout can be as faithful as they want with classic Trek, but for them to claim any licensing revenue from their contributions their versions would have to be at least 25% different. So a faithful Galaxy Class can appear in Picard, but Secret Hideout can’t generate merch revenue off that. So their incentive is to not use any classic designs as much as possible.
Are those supposed to be Klingons at 0:15? These make-ups look embarrassingly cheap and bad compared to those from NG/DS9. Not to mention completely different. I'd be ashamed to stand in front of the press like that...
But how do Picard and Strange New Worlds remain official canon? Certain major elements of those shows rely on Discovery, and not just because of a license. If Discovery is gone, then they must be as well, yet that very article says SNW is still official canon. Everything remains such a mess, such a huge mess -- perhaps even moreso now.
The initial Enterprise from Discovery is differnt that the one in SNW proper ergo the standalone series is legit and the one in Disco is alternative. See what they did there?
Well if Discovery Touched anything with Picard and Strange New World in Connections, then, by default, that to would make Picard Not Canon as well. Since Lower Decks Un Did Discovery as Canon.
@@VespinFeebler Maybe they are operating under the assumption that events transpired in both universes. The devil is in the details as they say. Just saying...
Don't get too optimistic. Lower Decks has done almost as much dirt to Trek canon as Discovery. Lower Deck Vs Discovery is like Wolf Man vs Dracula. Let them fight...but understand that whoever wins, you're on their dinner menu.
I tried watching STD. I couldn’t even make it through the first episode. That they left a pretty much intact ship adrift showed how stupid the writers were. I tried watching the one with Pike and made it halfway through show three before I couldn’t take it any longer.
I watched the first 2 seasons of STD and it was such a waste of time. I watched the first episode Strange New Worlds and I was like I'm out. Star Trek ended in 2005 and I'm done with this bad fan fiction.
Strange New Worlds cant fit with TOS either, given that the Enterprise is twice the size of the original with technology greater than the TMP refit & D combined.
@@robgoffroad… which also made no sense, even on screen (scaling issues in multiple shots); JJ just said he wanted big ships like on Star Wars as his justification for the size claims 🤦🏻
I only managed season 1 of ST:Picard. It was as though someone absolutely hated Trek and decided to write the antithesis of what Trek stood for, not in a good storytelling kind of way but in a borderline mentally deficient yet full of hatred kind of way. Apparently season 3 is meant to be okay but I still cant watch it, season 1 killed New-Trek for me. It took me a few years before I was able to rewatch TNG after that.
@@DavidEvans1983 Yeah I feel very much the same. ST:D was bonkers but I could at least stomach it. ST:P season 1 just got me sick of it and I still haven't recovered and I'll just let my good memories of Star Trek rest in peace.
The prime timeline is divided into two. This was explicitly stated in the second season of Strange New Worlds. This change was due to the Temporary Cold War. There is a pre-TCW timeline in which the Eugenics Wars occurred in the early 1990s. And there is a post-TCW chronology where the Eugenic Wars occurred 40 years later. The classic Star Trek takes place in the first timeline, and the new series in the second.
LD gets a borderline pass, but SNW's... Actually this brings me to a theory based on Kurtzman's Countdown comic where he posits the use of alternate universes to tell stories about the same characters in different contexts. I don't think any of SH's shows are technically set in the same universe. Yes there may be two 'Pike's', one in STD and one in SNW, but given all SH's shows suffer from a disconnect from each show, and in some cases each season... I'm not sure SNW and STD can be counted as being set in the same universe when you break the issue down. SH never put in the work to create continuity. While LD's is made by someone who clearly loves Trek and was left alone after the first season to work on his comedy love letter, with a little bit of studio interference here and there.
I figure Skydance could always get around to decanonizing more, but perhaps right now, the thought is maybe SNW, Lower Decks and Picard are salvageable canon-wise. Just needs selective pruning or to wave the little remnants of STD away as part of the Temporal Cold War. The biggest stand-outs by my memory with SNW canon lore compatibility would be the 1.) Gorn / Xenomorph hybrid (The Gorn are super different from TOS) and 2.) The Musical Episode. As amusing as Klingon's going K-Pop singers was, it still offends my Trek Sensibilities. The rest of the show could be fairly compatible I suppose. And the first 2 seasons of Picard are a Patrik Stewart fever dream as far as I'm concerned.
Discovery could have been a branch from Star Trek unconnected from the canon (other galaxy sector with different planets / races, set in a distant future from S1E1, etc). So they could experiment freely without hurting the established values and the hearts of the fans.
I’m constantly rewatching all Star Trek,nearly every day. It never gets old to me. Discovery is woke nonsense, and any time you criticize it some gatekeeper claims” yOU jUSt caNT hAnDle a sHOw wITh a blaCK fEmALe leAD”
That's interesting. This isn't the first time producers play with wording to make something look like it's part of a continued franchise. You mentioned Never Say Never Again as a good example and I would agree. Another can be Red Sonja movie. They tried to make it look like it's part of Conan as they had Arnold in the movie. But in truth his character was called Kalidor.
There was an article interviewing Mike McMahan asking if the Klingons reverted in the episode meant he was retconning them as ALT universe. He more or less said it is open to interpretation, purposely. The man's a genius!
He also said it could be flashback to something that existed earlier in the timelines like the Barge. In other words the crew and ship turned into a crew and a ship from the Disco time period . The ship with the proto-Klingons could be a crew that cause the virus that de-evolved Worf as it’s less likely that mindless pre-flight Klingons would have a ship.
Lower Decks flat out showed that Disco is a different universe during the season 5 finale. And since Disco decided to claim the JJ movies, we can lump them all into their own alt realities. Win win.
Discovery was NEVER part of classic Trek. There was no reasonable way such the spectacularly cheesy bad CGI technology of Discovery would retreat for the simple analog look of the OT.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but ST Lower Decks was amazing. It was basicly a love letter to the fans of Old Trek. You could tell the people who made it were real fans merely by all the easter eggs that were in each episode.
I don't like Discovery. But Lower Decks was awesome and I know a ton of people who liked it. It's probably the most liked newer Trek show amongst people who play STO. I think if it wasn't stuck exclusively on Paramount's streaming platform the show would have been far more popular. It wasn't good enough on it's own for me to pay for the sub. Especially when that's the only show I was interested in.
It's really hilarious. Everyone saw the rabbit hole Star Wars was going down and that could have been a great opportunity for Star Trek. Instead, they went with the flow which took them over the waterfall too. At this point I don't think either franchise has a future.
I've been a Star Trek fan since the 70s, watching TOS reruns as a kid and experiencing the excitement of the first movie in theaters. I followed TNG, DS9, Voyager, and all the films. While I'm not a hardcore fan who scrutinizes every detail, I believe the core of Star Trek lies in Gene Roddenberry's vision of a hopeful future - a universe where humanity strives for exploration, diplomacy, and a better tomorrow. I understand that shows like Discovery have taken some creative liberties, and there are always discussions about canon and continuity. However, these debates don't diminish my enjoyment of Star Trek. I appreciate the diverse stories being told, the new characters introduced, and the ongoing exploration of the franchise's core themes. Ultimately, what matters to me is that Star Trek continues to inspire and entertain, offering a glimpse of a brighter future. Whether it's the classic shows or the newer additions, Star Trek remains a unique and valuable part of science fiction no matter what story they're telling.
At minute 1:09 you said "...everything has been something of a state of flux..." Could you have said "a state of Phlox" instead, as a tribute to the last version of canonical Star Trek?
I admit, I enjoyed ‘09 Trek…it had been a long time since we had a new Trek film and it was nice to see the TOS characters again. Once the euphoria had worn away, all I ever wanted from “new Trek” in moving forward was to somehow solve the self-inflicted “Prime Spock” issue. It was strange just having him exist in that new timeline with no true purpose OR resolution for his character… Pulling back, the rebooted universe meant that writers had an OPPORTUNITY to pick or choose what elements they would like to keep or discard from Trek’s long and cumbersome lore…they could’ve brought Shatner back, erased Kirk’s death, and have him and Spock ride off into the sunset…giving their characters a proper send-off and unshackling new Trek so it can tell its own unique stories. I was even excited when they announced they were bringing Trek back to television and were developing a series pre-dating the adventures of Kirk and Spock…they had an opportunity with Captain Pike to make something memorable and unique, BUT they boxed themselves in by setting the show in the prime timeline, where his fate is already sealed. It just didn’t make any logical sense to do that. In typical JJ/Bad Robot/Secret Hideout fashion, they squandered any of that with lazy writing, needless changes, and no arc for anything….they rushed out disjointed content, missed the boat for unique storytelling, unique crossovers (IE Picard and Pike) and they don’t even have the ability to solve their own conundrums (ie Discovery Klingons). The best overall new Trek series is animated, the best Picard season was a general callback to everything created before JJ, and the Kirk/Spock reunion was created by OTOY. All Bad Robot/Secret Hideout have proved is that while they are clever enough to write for Star Trek, they are NOT smart enough to actually manage it-they have failed.
Here's the thing, I said years ago that the first company to do this, cut out the shite fans don't want and the goodwill a barely competent new show or movie gets will be huge. STD is horrible, I couldn't get to the end of the first season.
There's absolutely no way Star Trek Discovery can be removed from cannon for 1 simple reason: Strange New Worlds. If they remove Discovery from cannon, then Season 2 of Discovery wouldn't be cannon, which means the spin-off HIT Series Strange New Worlds is also NOT cannon. In fact, there are so many references and tie-ins in Discovery, it would destroy a lot of Star Trek cannon in general, even Old Trek. So... I really doubt this is going to happen, and if it does, it will completely break Trek. And let's not forget Short Treks, and the spin-off movie Section 31, that picks up where Phillipa Georgiou leaves the future timeline in Discovery. So, there's just too much that has come from Discovery that it's just not possible to remove it from cannon. Stop trying to stir-up nonsense. This is all because people didn't like the way Discovery handled the new look of the Klingons. Get over it. We have better make-up, and CGI technology to make Star Trek look a lot better than it did prior to 2004.
Didn't Discovery's engines work by the crew popping a bunch of mushrooms and going on a "trek into the stars" or something? I don't know, I never watched it. And I never will.
All that was true Canon when it came to Classic Star Trek has truly died after Enterprise in 2005!, All Trek from 2009 and up are not true Canon and all take place in alternate universe time lines which has truly totally destroyed Star Trek for as It was totally truly meant to be in the first place indeed!🤨.
Discovery turned me off of Star Trek so badly that, since then, I avoided anything ST related as the plague, even Picard season 3. Before STD I had been a massive fan.
@amalekedomite Sounds like I made the right choice. It's not like I'm part of the No Fun Allowed Crew, I like comedy sci-fi (Hitchhiker's Guide, Futurama, Space Balls, The Orville, Nebulous and more), but small bit I saw just made me angry. Here's a thought experiment: Would Lower Decks be better if it wasn't attached to Star Trek? If it was its own thing, like The Orville, would it have been less annoying/offensive? Of course, if it was an original show, it wouldn't have the same material to draw upon and likely wouldn't have been made.
@amalekedomite StarTrek was finished for me after Nemesis and Enterprise .... but Lower Decks earnt the right to be part of old Trek. Pur nostalgia and fun and no refernces to new Trek ... at least none i would remember. Sure first session was bit rough but it improved with every session.
Simply because those STINO shows are in the streaming world, where Monday Night Football finances them; channel subscribers pay for it all, not specific advertisers for each show as in mainstream TV. On mainstream, it would have died after the first season and nothing else would have come after that; as clearly shown byt their one and only attempt, having it's first season of STD on their _own_ mainstream TV where STD ended up _last_ behind reruns of second rate gameshows! Same thing with Rings of Power, Batwoman, all the Marvel shows, all the Star Wars shows...
Brilliant takedown - but I have more questions. What about Terry Matalas? He did a SUPERB job on Picard season 3. Where does he fit into this situation?
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The funny thing is they hate original Trek but they constantly robbed stories from classic Trek.
St:LD in a nutshell "Star trek is so lame, what a lame show, remember when data was trapped in the past though?!"
they became so corrupt that they could only repeat that which came before them.
Which makes it very similar to Disney Star Wars which also was constantly robbing the EU while whining about not having any source materials lol.
@amalekedomiteso people cant joke about things they love? Lower decks fees like it cares about past shows not that it hates them. Discovery on the other hand spits on older shows while thumping its chest like a moron.
Same thing with Star Wars. KK loathed the EU, but when hard up for ideas, she was ready to raid it for assets like Grand Admiral Thrawn. I’m amazed the Yuzhan Vong hasn’t been trotted out.
I don’t need all these mental gymnastics to know that Kurtzman Trek was never Star Trek.
@@douglasarthur2673
Nothing after Voyager is canon.
@@proto-geek248 Nothing after the third episode of DS9 is canon.
Everyone had to know that Discovery was eventually going to be erased when they made Spock crazy and put him in an institution and gave him an adopted human sister. They completely disregarded everything that came before.
A self insert Mary sue character
It wasn't erased, people need to SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Seriously, Lower Decks didn't erase it from canon, people are too stupid to actually SEE that! Ugh!
How did that disregard anything that came before?
Genuine question: how did that conflict with canon?
I don’t understand this perspective 💙
Please don’t dismiss this question out of hand
That's just their M.O. too.
"Unburdened by what has been."
It's just their speed.
It's hasn't been erased though. The show exists. 😂
JJ and Kurtzman's psuedo-Trek were never part of canon to begin with. Now, Paramount needs to hit the big DELETE button. Good riddance.
I personally never had an issue with JJ Abrams version, mainly because it didn't try to deceive us and flat out said it was an alternate timeline. It gave us a way to have ongoing original trek, updated with modern CGI and technology as we already had a good chunk of window dressing tech in modern times already that didn't exist in 1963 i.e. cell phones, tablets, and LCD screens.
@@Mortlupodidnt try to deceive us??? Do u not understand what the prime timeline is? Why the only "prime" ship we saw was that ridiculous jellyfish?
@@B9M3
Killing off Romulus in such an idiotic way….
If I was the judge in that lawsuit I would have ordered the entire franchise to be spun off into its own separate company Star Trek Productions and only given CBS and Paramount 20% stake each so neither could dictate actual content or story lines while the 60% would be in the hand of capable people who care about the Roddenberry vision and canon.
@@ChrisFerguson-zm4gt at least the Jellyfish doesn't blatantly copy a different method of FTL Drive, example being the Discovery itself.
STD tried to recreate Trek into something that revolved around one character, its lore cancer. The future they depicted is really dumb and would cripple all future Trek material.
Every Kurtzman Trek series always revolved around a single person. Trek worked best as an ensemble piece or a trio of leads with differing personalities and philosophy.
They did that on purple.
I like Admiral Vance but otherwise Discovery's constant identity crisis and Burnham fixation just hurt it. The timeskip in the final episode just reinforced that no other character mattered whatsoever to the showrunners.
std 😂
STD wanted to be any other Scifi instead of Star Trek. Star Wars. Battlestar Galactica. Terminator. Farscape. Babylon 5. They don't even TRY to be Star Trek until the last season and by then they did so in the stupidest way possible, which is still more Babylon 5 than Star Trek. And it does a terrible job emulating all these other franchises.
The Orville is more Trek than Discovery.
Or any post ENT show for that matter.
100% truth!!
Cheers
100%
Galaxy Quest is more Trek than Discovery.
90% of the storylines were impossible to fit into canon anyways
The sudden change was due to the fact that Discovery sucked.
@@freedomwriter1995The per viewership is probably the real reason. Picard season 3 received much better viewership than anything else.
Only thing worthy of Star Trek Canon is Picard S3
@@WyldStallion-bs9ooWhich is worth losing to get rid of the first two seasons
@@WyldStallion-bs9oo The main reason is because of the showrunner. Terry Matalas did a great TV adaptation of "12 Monkeys" before getting tapped for Picard. From what I know of Season 2, ironically he didn't do so hot with another time travel plot but all the Easter Eggs back to 12M in Picard Season 3 were such a nice touch.
STD was never considered canon by fans of TOS.
Nothing after Enterprise matters.
yes I don't think anyone likes having an STD...but seriously it should never have been made in the first place such horrible rubbish to subject true fans to and it is incredible to think they thought they were making something as a prequel to TOS that we would actually like and continue to watch. I watched one season to see if it grow on me but no it was disgusting so out of touch with what true Star Trek fans could ever want. I did watch different episodes from time to time to see if it would ever get any better from time to time and from what I saw it seemed as if it was just getting worse and worse. I watched a couple of episodes of them in the distant future and found the story lines so un-inspiring and pathetic
i doubt there are any TOS, ZNG or archer fans that even thought it could be cannon.
@@happychappy492 Science Fiction it is, Star Trek it is NOT. If it did not include Star Trek in it's name and any Star Trek references, I might have given it some leeway. Klutzman was just too frightened to do that and tried to sell it as Star Trek to tap into the Star Trek Universe. Don't under- estimate the power of the Force of die-hard TOS fans.
@@johnmeneses7039 absolutely agreed...
Star Trek Discovery NEVER EXISTED in my world. And now in CANON. Winning!
Only thing worthy of Star Trek canon anyway is Picard S3.
In my world nothing since Enterprise exist..
I really don't care about ST any longer sadly :/
R.I.P
@@WyldStallion-bs9ooeh, it was alright
It is sad how much damage has been done to most of the beloved sci fi franchises. Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr. Who, all have been trashed by the owners now.
@@Svafne Kurtzman and KK should band together and form a new production company. They could call it KK&K
STD de-canonised? It's a Christmas miracle!
Woohoo 🎄
LOL 😝
I'm happy for you guys, unfortunately for me as a star wars I'm still stuck with Sith Kennedy .
@@Vash85 Just do what the rest of us SW fans do and ignore it as cannon and enjoy the best that have gone before in a galaxy far far away a long long time ago...at least we still have that ahh good times
@@happychappy492 true
Right. Never watched a minute of it, never will. Already removed from canon, as far as I'm concerned.
Right. Canon is overrated. We viewers can individually decide what material is canon or not to us personally.
I'm 100% glad it was removed from Canon, that said...
From the 3rd season forward, it's a good show, with a terrible protagonist, but worth watching IMHO.
@@jerryrehard7711 Actually without canon there is no continuity and thus, no stakes. STD couldn't keep it's own canon from episode to episode in certain cases... let alone season to season.
Add to that the lore violations that stem from continuity of canon and there is no point watching STD when it happily breaks verisimilitude for the rule of one writer deciding their way is better than 'the' way.
@@davfree9732 Too often these days, people will point to Nimoy or others saying they weren't fond of the idea of "canon". With respect to the late greats who expressed such sentiments, it's a bit hypocritical. They cared about what their characters did given their history, personality, and other traits which are as much a part of canon as anything. Nimoy helped develop quite a bit of it and was actually annoyed when TNG was announced because he saw it as trying to "catch lightning in a bottle" again.
Another good example is how George Takei of all people got put off by the JJ films making Sulu bat for the other team. In his mind, the character of Sulu was straight but the "creative" team decided to pander and he actually didn't appreciate it. If there is no internal consistency to a story in its events or characters, then why even label new parts of it as though they belong with the rest?
@@davfree9732 I'm not attacking the idea of canon in general. I'm just saying that if we viewers want to think that a bad spin off like discovery never happened then it is our choice and right to do so. I totally agree with you on the rest of your post.
I'm going to say it: I have a lot of respect for the Star Trek writing staff if this is true. This is far more respect being shown towards the viewer than we are likely to see from Star Wars or Dr Who any time soon.
PREACH
I never considered any JJ or CBS Trek as canon and I have been a classic Trek fan since the 1960's.
We reach, brother!
I only consider the movies of the kelvin line canon as it continues into a separate timeline. Considering the choice was do that or have to comeup with a completely new series on a later Enterprise due to actors aging out of the believable military ages. That being said I wouldnt have minded if they did a series of say like Tirmeship Enterprise J or something along those lines.
You can't erase something from cannon when it was never cannon to begin with.
It's a paradox.
"I will take care of this with my headcannon."
"... Do you mean headcanon?"
[Lights match] "Did I [bleep]ing stutter?"
@@pablo1835rigelYeah a paradox of 💩!
Star Trek ended with "Enterprise"...
well Enterprise also has continuity issues. the best defense is similar to Kelvin. Enterprise is a direct result of First Contact.
@@Revkor No one really gives a crap about continuity issues. They only get brought up because the show itself is awful. Enterprise, though stumbling out the gate, finished off as a real Star Trek show.
Nothing made since has even come close.
That is the issue at play here.
@@Revkor that is the problem with making prequels, they are so limited to what they can do and need dozens of researcher to make sure nothing breaks canon so they ay f it we will just do w/e we want and it always ends up breaking canon.
@@Athrin01 but not that hard. some of the big issues was have cloaking devices around a century before kirk would run into them and do the romulan war with earth. not hard. heck Rogue one did it right by keepign continuity. there will be minor slip ups but if you don't mess up the big ones you are fine. JJ trek and ENT messed up big ones. but credit to Enterprise when show runners changed it got more inline with canon.
@amalekedomite continity is a key part why it stumbled. having cloaks around 100 years before kirk then why is kirk so surprised to run into it. lack of continuity is the first step of bad writing.
A stupidly written corporate agreement is the cause of Star Trek’s demise. How freaking sad is that.
If I was the judge in that lawsuit I would have ordered the actual franchise to be spun off into its own separate company Star Trek Productions and only given CBS and Paramount 20% stake each so neither could dictate actual content or story lines while the 60% would be in the hand of capable people who care about the Roddenberry vision and canon.
How can they come up with a ship that's waaaaay more advanced than the one replacing it? It's disgusting to see what they did to the Klingons and Ferengi. They need to completely delete this woke abination from cannon.
I heard what STD did to the Klingons. But what did they do to the ferengi?
@@nicholase82 reverted them to the very first episode they appeared in.
@@Coramelimane oh they made them pirates or privateers again. Doesn't sound too bad to be honest.
It has the look of early iPhones 😂 just scaled up.
@@nicholase82 you'd have to see it. just google ferengi star trek discovery. Basically, do you remember how the old lady ferengi looked like of DS9? Kind of like that. Terrible.
My problem is that ever since ENTERPRISE, they have been constantly doing prequel reboots of the original STAR TREK as if they are trying to say that the original 1960s series was an embarrassment and needed to be improved. They rewrite the past for their own fan service.
@@alanoldham1700 And they have not stopped.
I like Doomcock
Doomcock was right! 👍🏽
I'll take that news with a grain of salt. 😉
Let's be real: Fans determine the canon of a series by their support to keep it alive or not (even Deadpool and Wolverine implied this with their "Anchor Being" stuff.) Disney Star Wars had not now, nor ever, been canon. Same with JJ Abrams/Kurtzman Star Trek, modern Doctor Who, Marvel and DC comics past 2014, or the entire MCU (with no X-Men or Spider-Man throughout most of its history.)
We don't need the "official source" to tell us something isn't canon; we already know none of this is.
+1 for pointing out that Marvel and DC comics haven't been canon since at least 2014. Even before then, the companies tried rebooting those universes more than twice.
Kelvin Timeline is canon. The majority of fans see it. Sorry you don't.
@@CountAdolfo In fact, Kelvin Timeline is not legally canon. Abrams wanted the royalties on all the Star Trek products that Bad Robot produced. So he legally purchased a license agreement from CBS/Viacom, Paramount who separately owned Star Trek tv and Star Trek films. The "Prime" timeline is a license he came up with and that all these studios have been using. It is absolutely not canon.
Reality is that “canon” doesn’t really matter. Canon is more a dogmatic corpo speak by producers.
Most people don’t care they just enjoy or don’t enjoy a project and move on.
Producers constantly change and ignore ideas from previous sources at various levels. Like Roddenberry considered TAS, ST5 and a few assorted show episodes as non-canon for later producers to acknowledge and use them as canon. LD for example is strongly tied to TAS materials. SNW chose to acknowledge ST5.
Producers of Voy made an active attempt to ignore Eugenics Wars in 1996.
Producers of DS9 both acknowledged Eugenics Wars but have noted in interviews at the time of its production they chose to ignore them as being set in 1996. They consider Spock as wrong and that khan’s reference in ST2 was being ignored.
ENT placement is vague…. But there is a line that implies 20th century for augment technology but doesn’t specify when the eugenics wars take place.
Deadpool and Wolverine was so mid and that anchor being thing never made any sense. The universe didn't end because it didn't have Wolverine, it ended because the last 2 movies were terribly written.
Skydance, in recent years, has made anti woke shows and movies because it realizes it's easier to make money (and lots of it) if you give the fans what they want instead of what you want.
Pretty simple recipe too.
Give the fans what they want to consume. Not what you want them to consume.
In the first ten minutes of the pilot for STD, I spotted so many problems with cannon that I dumped out. I realized the producers did not respect Star Trek and " without respect, we reject" became a mantra to me the first time I heard that phrase.
Discovery should never have gotten past the pilot episode.
Strange New Worlds should definitely be considered alternate as well.
I managed to watch quite a lot of SNW. Haven't bothered with the new season though.
@@Songbirdstress Strange New Worlds bugs me somewhat. When it's not woke, it's a decent enough show.
'Lower Decks' itself is garbage, contrary to established canon, and should be erased, along with the people who made it.
@@michaelmacleod6517 The top line are good actors. Pike is excellent.
Currently watching original Battlestar. There's no comparison.
100% agree.
I have maintained from the beginning that STD was in an alternate universe or timeline, with its fans arguing that "what you think doesn't matter, CBS says it's canon, so it is!" Ha, ha!
I had the same thinking given the vastly different style and character development arcs but have been told I'm reading too much into it. Things that make you go hmmm....
There should be some universal “code” that all fans agree on, like for example if more than 10% of a new work is incongruent with original canon then it is AUTOMATICALLY defaulted to non-canonical status. ESPECIALLY if the original creator(s) has no input.
I'm a member of Lower Deck's audience. I loved it far more than I ever "enjoyed" Discovery, Picard, or Strange New Worlds. At least Lower Decks referenced past continuity in far more reverent (if not joking) ways than the recent live action series have.
Agreed and right there with you
Yes I persevered with it and was glad I did. I found it to be quite funny and interesting story lines at the same time
I liked Lower Decks too… granted the first season was kinda rough, but in the end, yes, it was a parody, but the Lower Decks writers had a lot more love for the original material than the writes of STD ever did.
Still has the Alphabet Message in it, thou.
@@balung What today DOESN'T, though?
Video starts at: 11:43
Hit the gym yo
Get laid bro @@clone1eighty7
It was absurd to have the female lead be named “Michael,” she was totally insufferable, and a Mary Sue. What they did with the Klingons was criminal. None of the characters were particularly cool or relatable, and, as you stated, the writers were totally obsessed with LGBT politics. Traditionally, Trek writers have had a sense of subtlety set in a hopeful view of the future, not this hamfisted crap.
Meh..who cares, STD was only canon for the JJ Trek, so no great lose.
Axanar is more accurate.
Axanar is the epitome of what could have been.
I Found the SW action scenes in a Trek movie to me interesting.
It's extremely comforting to know that, no matter what garbage the current crop of clowns create, real Star Trek remains uncontaminated and uncorrupted, preserved as it was as of 2005. They can't change it. And eventually, the clowns will go away and we will again have real Star Trek from the original IP.
STD was NEVER canon.
Discovery could have been amazing if they had stuck to the lore and stayed true to the ideals that made star trek so beloved. But no, they had to put their own spin on it and now they're suffering the consequences.
I agree, Discovery could have been amazing if it was a different show made by different people about something different.
From day 1 they were adamant that Klingons were Trump. The series was doomed to be dated in a few years regardless of quality.
They should have stayed with the story, tech, and concept between ENT and TOS. The Romulan war could have been explored or the Izar conflict could have been shown to explain how Garth of Izar got his reputation.
@@StarFleet_Tech1701 Remember, Axanar got kneecapped so that this "series" could exist.
I knew STD would fail during the interview promo when they claimed to have the first black lead in Trek
Even in the far future, Discovery was doing damage. Because it completely erased the whole notion that there were timeships and temporal powers at work.
The show ruined everything is touched, and it should indeed be consigned to the darkness beyond time. Hopefully it doesn't find Lavos there...
Since Strange New Worlds crossed over with Discovery, that would mean Strange New Worlds is not "canon" either. And the upcoming "Section 31" builds on both, so it would not be "canon" either. In reality, in a series where you have parallel universes, alternate timelines, and multiversal shenanigans, everything can be "canon" somewhere, somewhen.
Stamping your own brand of shit onto someone else's work seems to be a modern trend. I think Star Trek and Star Wars are beyond recovery at this point. I just tune out when I hear about remakes or reboots anymore.
The recovery of both is annoyingly simple: just ignore the slop.
My understanding of the whole 25% different thing is that Bad Robot/Secret Hideout can be as faithful as they want with classic Trek, but for them
to claim any licensing revenue from their contributions their versions would have to be at least 25% different.
So a faithful Galaxy Class can appear in Picard, but Secret Hideout can’t generate merch revenue off that. So their incentive is to not use any classic designs as much as possible.
Are those supposed to be Klingons at 0:15? These make-ups look embarrassingly cheap and bad compared to those from NG/DS9. Not to mention completely different. I'd be ashamed to stand in front of the press like that...
Everything after Star Trek Enterprise should not be called "New Trek" but "No Trek".
I just call it dreck.
Star trek Discovery named itself STD before fans realized it.
And swiftly the infection came.
Happy to exit this multi-worse.
Everything after Enterprise needs to be de-canonised. Same with Star Wars and Doctor Who, whole swathes of those franchises need to be wiped too.
Studios don't get to determine cannon, fans do.
I guess its safe to say the vast majority of fans passed judgement on STD a long time ago, then!
JJ IS the worst thing to happen to ST. He opened the door to all the horseshit that has followed.
Same with Star Wars Force Awakens. He did the first movie....then left the franchise.....for other to come in and create a disaster!
But how do Picard and Strange New Worlds remain official canon? Certain major elements of those shows rely on Discovery, and not just because of a license. If Discovery is gone, then they must be as well, yet that very article says SNW is still official canon. Everything remains such a mess, such a huge mess -- perhaps even moreso now.
The initial Enterprise from Discovery is differnt that the one in SNW proper ergo the standalone series is legit and the one in Disco is alternative. See what they did there?
@@WmJFaust Sadly this doesn't work. Multiple episodes of SNW directly reference events from Discovery.
Well if Discovery Touched anything with Picard and Strange New World in Connections, then, by default, that to would make Picard Not Canon as well. Since Lower Decks Un Did Discovery as Canon.
@@VespinFeebler Maybe they are operating under the assumption that events transpired in both universes. The devil is in the details as they say. Just saying...
@@WmJFaust Yeah, I suppose. But it's such a messy method to fix things.
Don't get too optimistic. Lower Decks has done almost as much dirt to Trek canon as Discovery. Lower Deck Vs Discovery is like Wolf Man vs Dracula. Let them fight...but understand that whoever wins, you're on their dinner menu.
I tried watching STD. I couldn’t even make it through the first episode. That they left a pretty much intact ship adrift showed how stupid the writers were.
I tried watching the one with Pike and made it halfway through show three before I couldn’t take it any longer.
I watched the first 2 seasons of STD and it was such a waste of time. I watched the first episode Strange New Worlds and I was like I'm out. Star Trek ended in 2005 and I'm done with this bad fan fiction.
ditto
I'm so happy, that I only stuck to comment videos with snippets of the abomination on Doomcocks, drinker etc channels
Fun-Fact: Kurtz is German for short and Kurtzman is a short man...
He has been kurtailed
The joke just writes itself.
the ORVILLE IS more star trek than star trek
These days, course has Trek guests and directors make it worth while..
We need to apologize to Lower Decks. And have it renewed to go poke fun the Jar Jar Abrams films and first 2 seasons of Picard next.
Hope they get rid of Picard and Strange New Worlds as well.
Strange New Worlds cant fit with TOS either, given that the Enterprise is twice the size of the original with technology greater than the TMP refit & D combined.
JJ's Enterprise was twice as big... SNW's is the same.
@@robgoffroad… which also made no sense, even on screen (scaling issues in multiple shots); JJ just said he wanted big ships like on Star Wars as his justification for the size claims 🤦🏻
Don't get me wrong now!
ST:D was bad, bonkers really.
But ST:Picard was so freakingly bad and deserves more hate..
Neither deserves praise.
I only managed season 1 of ST:Picard. It was as though someone absolutely hated Trek and decided to write the antithesis of what Trek stood for, not in a good storytelling kind of way but in a borderline mentally deficient yet full of hatred kind of way.
Apparently season 3 is meant to be okay but I still cant watch it, season 1 killed New-Trek for me. It took me a few years before I was able to rewatch TNG after that.
@@DavidEvans1983 Yeah I feel very much the same.
ST:D was bonkers but I could at least stomach it.
ST:P season 1 just got me sick of it and I still haven't recovered and I'll just let my good memories of Star Trek rest in peace.
On hearing this news, Doomcocks head just exploded with joy, and I'm not talking about the one in his helmet.😂
Too bad...So sad...Never mind. That means Strange New World is out too.
Boy Band Klingons and Pike being chef alongside goofy "Spock". How will we ever survive?
The prime timeline is divided into two. This was explicitly stated in the second season of Strange New Worlds. This change was due to the Temporary Cold War. There is a pre-TCW timeline in which the Eugenics Wars occurred in the early 1990s. And there is a post-TCW chronology where the Eugenic Wars occurred 40 years later. The classic Star Trek takes place in the first timeline, and the new series in the second.
That won't work.
They would need to reboot Strange New World and Lower Decks along with that!
AGreed along with Bermans Trek
LD gets a borderline pass, but SNW's...
Actually this brings me to a theory based on Kurtzman's Countdown comic where he posits the use of alternate universes to tell stories about the same characters in different contexts.
I don't think any of SH's shows are technically set in the same universe. Yes there may be two 'Pike's', one in STD and one in SNW, but given all SH's shows suffer from a disconnect from each show, and in some cases each season... I'm not sure SNW and STD can be counted as being set in the same universe when you break the issue down.
SH never put in the work to create continuity. While LD's is made by someone who clearly loves Trek and was left alone after the first season to work on his comedy love letter, with a little bit of studio interference here and there.
I'm okay with that.
Lower Decks is what decanonized ST:D.
I figure Skydance could always get around to decanonizing more, but perhaps right now, the thought is maybe SNW, Lower Decks and Picard are salvageable canon-wise. Just needs selective pruning or to wave the little remnants of STD away as part of the Temporal Cold War.
The biggest stand-outs by my memory with SNW canon lore compatibility would be the 1.) Gorn / Xenomorph hybrid (The Gorn are super different from TOS) and 2.) The Musical Episode. As amusing as Klingon's going K-Pop singers was, it still offends my Trek Sensibilities. The rest of the show could be fairly compatible I suppose.
And the first 2 seasons of Picard are a Patrik Stewart fever dream as far as I'm concerned.
Want Trekkies wanted is a New Show that Respects Roddenberry's Vision.
I stopped watching star trek after discovery was released. I know nothing of discovery or strange new worlds.
Discovery could have been a branch from Star Trek unconnected from the canon (other galaxy sector with different planets / races, set in a distant future from S1E1, etc). So they could experiment freely without hurting the established values and the hearts of the fans.
Something funny about JD talking about masculinity while wearing more eyeliner than Jack Sparrow in drag.
I watch DS9 & Voyager daily on Pluto TV.
DS9 is peak Trek. I still watch the pre-Discovery Trek a couple of episodes every week.
I’m constantly rewatching all Star Trek,nearly every day. It never gets old to me. Discovery is woke nonsense, and any time you criticize it some gatekeeper claims” yOU jUSt caNT hAnDle a sHOw wITh a blaCK fEmALe leAD”
@@Midaswelby-r3hagreed
That's interesting. This isn't the first time producers play with wording to make something look like it's part of a continued franchise. You mentioned Never Say Never Again as a good example and I would agree. Another can be Red Sonja movie. They tried to make it look like it's part of Conan as they had Arnold in the movie. But in truth his character was called Kalidor.
If STD isn't canon and, by extension, SNW is also not canon. Why is not Lower Decks also not canon since LD did a crossover with SNW?
It’s simply because Lower Decks is a comedy .
Let's just call it Discovery. It was never Star Trek
There was an article interviewing Mike McMahan asking if the Klingons reverted in the episode meant he was retconning them as ALT universe. He more or less said it is open to interpretation, purposely. The man's a genius!
He also said it could be flashback to something that existed earlier in the timelines like the Barge. In other words the crew and ship turned into a crew and a ship from the Disco time period .
The ship with the proto-Klingons could be a crew that cause the virus that de-evolved Worf as it’s less likely that mindless pre-flight Klingons would have a ship.
Official: STD is not canon.
As far as I'm concerned, STD was never canon.
Frankly, I'd be happy if Kurtzman were just removed from human canon entirely.
keep crazy thought to yourself pls
@@ahsenkhan5386 Keep your b***h made pointless hand-wringing to yourself pls
@@ahsenkhan5386 You don't police anyone's speech. YT does enough of that without your help, tenderfoot. Get lost.
@@ahsenkhan5386 Be thankful my replies keep getting deleted, but know you got dunked on anyway.
him and the rest of the big-nose tribe.
This is like socks for Christmas. Better than a lump of coal, but hard to get too excited.
Lower Decks flat out showed that Disco is a different universe during the season 5 finale. And since Disco decided to claim the JJ movies, we can lump them all into their own alt realities. Win win.
Discovery was NEVER part of classic Trek. There was no reasonable way such the spectacularly cheesy bad CGI technology of Discovery would retreat for the simple analog look of the OT.
I'm sorry, I was a big follower of your content, but the weird semi stealth adds at the start of your videos. I find disconcerting. Also 5:32
Is it the ADD that has you feeling “disconcerted” or is it the MESSAGE? Eh? Things that make you go hmmmm ….
JJ might have been the catalyst, for everything that came after. So, maybe JJ really is to blame.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but ST Lower Decks was amazing. It was basicly a love letter to the fans of Old Trek. You could tell the people who made it were real fans merely by all the easter eggs that were in each episode.
I don't like Discovery. But Lower Decks was awesome and I know a ton of people who liked it. It's probably the most liked newer Trek show amongst people who play STO. I think if it wasn't stuck exclusively on Paramount's streaming platform the show would have been far more popular. It wasn't good enough on it's own for me to pay for the sub. Especially when that's the only show I was interested in.
It's really hilarious. Everyone saw the rabbit hole Star Wars was going down and that could have been a great opportunity for Star Trek. Instead, they went with the flow which took them over the waterfall too. At this point I don't think either franchise has a future.
But this requires me to believe that Lower Decks is canon.
its jsut anotehr timeline as well.
I've been a Star Trek fan since the 70s, watching TOS reruns as a kid and experiencing the excitement of the first movie in theaters. I followed TNG, DS9, Voyager, and all the films. While I'm not a hardcore fan who scrutinizes every detail, I believe the core of Star Trek lies in Gene Roddenberry's vision of a hopeful future - a universe where humanity strives for exploration, diplomacy, and a better tomorrow.
I understand that shows like Discovery have taken some creative liberties, and there are always discussions about canon and continuity. However, these debates don't diminish my enjoyment of Star Trek. I appreciate the diverse stories being told, the new characters introduced, and the ongoing exploration of the franchise's core themes.
Ultimately, what matters to me is that Star Trek continues to inspire and entertain, offering a glimpse of a brighter future. Whether it's the classic shows or the newer additions, Star Trek remains a unique and valuable part of science fiction no matter what story they're telling.
At minute 1:09 you said "...everything has been something of a state of flux..." Could you have said "a state of Phlox" instead, as a tribute to the last version of canonical Star Trek?
I admit, I enjoyed ‘09 Trek…it had been a long time since we had a new Trek film and it was nice to see the TOS characters again. Once the euphoria had worn away, all I ever wanted from “new Trek” in moving forward was to somehow solve the self-inflicted “Prime Spock” issue. It was strange just having him exist in that new timeline with no true purpose OR resolution for his character…
Pulling back, the rebooted universe meant that writers had an OPPORTUNITY to pick or choose what elements they would like to keep or discard from Trek’s long and cumbersome lore…they could’ve brought Shatner back, erased Kirk’s death, and have him and Spock ride off into the sunset…giving their characters a proper send-off and unshackling new Trek so it can tell its own unique stories.
I was even excited when they announced they were bringing Trek back to television and were developing a series pre-dating the adventures of Kirk and Spock…they had an opportunity with Captain Pike to make something memorable and unique, BUT they boxed themselves in by setting the show in the prime timeline, where his fate is already sealed. It just didn’t make any logical sense to do that.
In typical JJ/Bad Robot/Secret Hideout fashion, they squandered any of that with lazy writing, needless changes, and no arc for anything….they rushed out disjointed content, missed the boat for unique storytelling, unique crossovers (IE Picard and Pike) and they don’t even have the ability to solve their own conundrums (ie Discovery Klingons).
The best overall new Trek series is animated, the best Picard season was a general callback to everything created before JJ, and the Kirk/Spock reunion was created by OTOY.
All Bad Robot/Secret Hideout have proved is that while they are clever enough to write for Star Trek, they are NOT smart enough to actually manage it-they have failed.
Here's the thing, I said years ago that the first company to do this, cut out the shite fans don't want and the goodwill a barely competent new show or movie gets will be huge.
STD is horrible, I couldn't get to the end of the first season.
Disgracery is a disgrace
Discard is a disgrace
Jar Jar Abrams is a disgrace
Alex Klutzman is a disgrace
Hail André!
The only good thing about Lower Drek is that it removed STD. Now if we could just scrub everything else that has been made post-Enterprise.
They essentially did: Discovery intersects all post 2005 new Star Trek universes as of now.
The F bombs and all the other childish cussing needs to be removed from Star Trek immediately
If they don't drop F bombs how are they supposed to indicate their love of science and engineering by saying "Science, F... yeah!"
Yeah. That first F-bomb in the first season of STD was what finally broke the camels back for me. Stopped watching after that and never looked back.
what do you mean you dont want klingons to sound like heavy metal rockers from the dead dropping fbombs?
There's absolutely no way Star Trek Discovery can be removed from cannon for 1 simple reason: Strange New Worlds. If they remove Discovery from cannon, then Season 2 of Discovery wouldn't be cannon, which means the spin-off HIT Series Strange New Worlds is also NOT cannon.
In fact, there are so many references and tie-ins in Discovery, it would destroy a lot of Star Trek cannon in general, even Old Trek.
So... I really doubt this is going to happen, and if it does, it will completely break Trek. And let's not forget Short Treks, and the spin-off movie Section 31, that picks up where Phillipa Georgiou leaves the future timeline in Discovery.
So, there's just too much that has come from Discovery that it's just not possible to remove it from cannon. Stop trying to stir-up nonsense. This is all because people didn't like the way Discovery handled the new look of the Klingons. Get over it. We have better make-up, and CGI technology to make Star Trek look a lot better than it did prior to 2004.
Nah, we got to pull our finger out of that dam to deal with this problem. So STD and SNW can be declared non canon.
Didn't Discovery's engines work by the crew popping a bunch of mushrooms and going on a "trek into the stars" or something? I don't know, I never watched it. And I never will.
I really would love there to be a directors cut of Star Trek V
Shame we can't actually fire Jar Jar and Kurtzman out of an actual Cannon, but this will suffice...
for now.
FYI, that was one of the worst segues I've ever heard in my life.
All that was true Canon when it came to Classic Star Trek has truly died after Enterprise in 2005!, All Trek from 2009 and up are not true Canon and all take place in alternate universe time lines which has truly totally destroyed Star Trek for as It was totally truly meant to be in the first place indeed!🤨.
The last time i was this early Kirk was still captain of the enterprise
Daaaamn! That was one of the smoothest ad transitions I've seen in a while. I was 10 seconds in before I realized I was watching an ad.
Discovery turned me off of Star Trek so badly that, since then, I avoided anything ST related as the plague, even Picard season 3. Before STD I had been a massive fan.
How can something which isn't Canon (Lower Decks) decree than something else ISNT canon (Discovery). Garbage in, garbage out
Just be happy it can be done.
@alejandromolina5645 shouldn't have to be done since this crap isn't Star Trek
Thank you God!
1:48 hey look it’s dumb and dumber
So messed up man but I still laughed
Lower Decks once it got past the Rick and Morty phase… was a lot of fun to watch.
How far into the show is that?
I got 12 minutes into the first episode before I decided that it wasn't for me and turned it off.
@@LordRaa It never gets past that. It's crap from start to finish. If you like star trek, Lower decks is offensive. End of, simple as.
@amalekedomite Sounds like I made the right choice.
It's not like I'm part of the No Fun Allowed Crew, I like comedy sci-fi (Hitchhiker's Guide, Futurama, Space Balls, The Orville, Nebulous and more), but small bit I saw just made me angry.
Here's a thought experiment: Would Lower Decks be better if it wasn't attached to Star Trek? If it was its own thing, like The Orville, would it have been less annoying/offensive?
Of course, if it was an original show, it wouldn't have the same material to draw upon and likely wouldn't have been made.
@amalekedomite StarTrek was finished for me after Nemesis and Enterprise .... but Lower Decks earnt the right to be part of old Trek. Pur nostalgia and fun and no refernces to new Trek ... at least none i would remember. Sure first session was bit rough but it improved with every session.
@@LordRaaPlease give it a chance, it has his moments and there is no rly Girlboss in there. It starts low but it will be better.
Nothing made after 2005 is canon imho
Always wondered how discovery kept getting seasons when nobody was watching but seeing they got a 5 season deal upfront makes so much sense now
same reason rings of power is going on its 3rd season, its in the contract to make 5 seasons they singed to get the rights.
Simply because those STINO shows are in the streaming world, where Monday Night Football finances them; channel subscribers pay for it all, not specific advertisers for each show as in mainstream TV. On mainstream, it would have died after the first season and nothing else would have come after that; as clearly shown byt their one and only attempt, having it's first season of STD on their _own_ mainstream TV where STD ended up _last_ behind reruns of second rate gameshows!
Same thing with Rings of Power, Batwoman, all the Marvel shows, all the Star Wars shows...
Brilliant takedown - but I have more questions. What about Terry Matalas? He did a SUPERB job on Picard season 3. Where does he fit into this situation?
I've ignored Discovery since the first season, even then it was kinda of painful. I'm pleased its being removed.