Labour take on the trains
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- but it all sounds like a pep talk rather than a call to genuine action
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I applaud Labour for this.
Re-nationalise the water, railway, and electricity companies!
Heads up, as a foreign national (Eastern Europe) and a former contractor, who used to get involved with all sorts of low skilled railway work here in the UK, I've observed this trend of private companies bidding for contracts based on savings they are promising to deliver. Alas, said savings take the form of poor working conditions, low pay for most and lots of corner-cutting. Nothing new to anyone who has lived more than a couple of decades, but worth reiterating - regardless of who owns the railway, if the working people's conditions remain unchanged, the quality of service will always be subpar. ☕🤔
If everyone is working overtime, means everyone is overworked and exhausted.
When a public service is privatised the model changes from serving the people to serving the shareholders
Agreed it's all about putting a bigger, fatter Turkey on the table at Christmas every year. While watching the services plunge into the abyss
Quite simply, we have lost the railway culture, the only guys with any answers are recently retired railwaymen, (up to 20 years, before senile dementia creeps in), but they wouldn’t want to listen. 🚂🚴♂️👣🇺🇦
Another committee on the way, gosh how many committees do they want? Nationalise the railways and get it sorted.
My local TOC (Northern) has been publicly owned since 2020, but the service is plagued by short-notice cancellations, apparently caused by staff shortages. So I don't think that it's all down to the ownership thing. I guess that a big part of it are the incentives that TOCs are given, being at odds with the reliable service that we all want.
The problem re Avanti is very difficult because the last government renewed their contract last year for a further 5 years. The minister cannot terminate their contract for another 2 year (contract condition) but is taking legal advice on how the government may terminate their contact based on lack of performance. We live in hope.
Things like railways, buses, water, gas and electric should be owned by the public. The fire service was once run by a bunch of separate insurance companies - they wouldn’t put a fire out unless you were a subscriber. Imagine what a mess that was.
And the Postal service.
Privatization was a miserable failure- typical Tories looking out for their mates and to hell with the public.
I lived in Rugby from 2006 to 2009. It was the biggest nightmare. I use to say the UK is the only place on the planet where you get £¥€ked by a Virgin!! Nothing has changed Tim in Rugby. Although some of the Locals do remind me the trains use to run on time in the 70s. But that was a long long time ago.
I agree entirely, the railways should be in full public ownership and seen as a public service, subsidized to make travel cheap.
The problem with leaving Euston is the price structure. Peak time has been extended further into the evening so people wait unti off peak and then overcrowd.
How can countries like France, Germany, Holland and Spain have affordable reliable services ?
Merseyrail own their trains! Fact!
Yep you just own the timetable. Trains should be a loss leader. Morning prof have a good day.
I am old enough to remember the nationalised rail system. Didn’t need to worry about the train being late when the staff were on strike. Poor service was the reason behind privatisation which resulted in better trains and services. I travel all over the country by train, and I find the train clean, the staff helpful. Cancelled trains are often down to a lack of crew. Recruitment is hardly like to improve if the state owns the system.
And the buses Tim, Stagecoach have a huge hold on our public transport and its abysmal
We don't have British built trains anymore which is why they are all leased by Hitachi etc through contracts. British Rail Engineering Limited was essentially broken up and privatised in 1992. To renationalise the railways as you say we need British owned everything rail from stations, to trains to infrastructure. As much as i want the improvements and renationalisation it isn't going to be achievable just by taking contracts back into public hands.
I used to work on the railway in the good old days of B.R. and drivers at my depot were NOT allowed to work overtime, now fast forward to today, all train companies RELY on drivers working overtime, this leads to having a skeleton staff culture, no spare drivers, no spare coaching stock, no spare guards / train men/ train managers, call them what you will, so any problems in this department leads to cancellations, simply because there is no cover !, I can understand why these companies want it that way, to keep their profits up there, to keep their sky high pay packets, their sky high bonuses, even if a train is cancelled, the fat cats STILL get their bonuses !, this is inheritally wrong, and is of no use whatsoever to us sorry punters, and this is just one of many, many reasons why privatisation has not and will not ever work, any railway should exist to serve the public, NOT to line the pockets of some " bigwig " counting his undeserved bounty in his lofty lair
Huge surge in sick leave last Sunday. Coinciding with the Soccer circus.
You are spot on Malcolm. I did 46 years on the railway and watched as the unbelievable happened. 🚂🚴♂️👣🇺🇦
Haha !, I bet there was !@@stephfoxwell4620
Those days are long gone my friend, like you I find getting back is the biggest problem. But the noise is the problem, especially from those with moblies on speaker phone and video phones, why they have to shout is beyond me. Not the most pleasant of ways to travel anymore...
Immediate action? A probe into the efficiency of services? Where do you get such dangerous ideas minister!
The annoying announcements are a result of disability legislation; they're intended for people with vision issues who may struggle to identify where they are. As such, I think they're a good thing overall.
The trains were privatised for dogmatic reasons. Private = efficient and governments should not run businesses. The trains had no independent advocate but the road transport lobby was very vocal. They complained of "unfair" competition from subsidised rail. The truth is that we, the tax payer, subsidise HGVs heavily. The cost of road provision is far more than the total taxes they pay (cars pay more).
I couldn't agree more, Prof!
Back in the 50's, we would board the train to London, as a family of five travelling from Mansfield, and have a picnic on the journey while enjoying a rolling scenic view of the countryside. It was an adventure my siblings and I relished!
I guess the distinction between a rail network run as a service, rather than for profit, are all too apparent nowadays.
Merseyrail has the best trains and performance in the country. It fully caters for disabled people and the 777 class trains are level boarding. All trains will be taken back into public ownership when the contracts expire!
The only solution is to nationalize all transport, busses, trains, underground. It worked fine until privat companies took over, they are only interested in profits, not jobs, not infrastructure, just profits. Get them out of those sensitive areas such as water, transport, power grid. The UK once worked like a clock, I know it was all subsidised, but people will always appreciate great amenities at affordable prices in the knowledge that they work.
I agree Prof ; a service is necessary for the wider economy. WE should get more vehicles off the road and have better value train services that people can afford to use like some European countries . Car ownership is becoming increasingly expensive and that is not including road building and maintenance .
Labour doing more to try improving rial services. It time the companies were held to account and stop them from paying bonuses for poor services
I share your pain in the service from Rugby. The cheaper tickets are like hens’ teeth and reliability is variable in the extreme. The irony is that the fast West Coast services are run by a public sector Italian company.
I remember reading an article in the Sunday Times many years ago (when we still had BR) that when considering funding for a new rail route, it had to be proven that the new route would turn a profit. Conversely, when considering funding for a new road the deciding factor would be the improved convenience to the motorist.
Consequently, there was woefully inadequate investment in rail infrastructure and rolling stock - not improved post-privatisation, thus the rail system is in the poor state it is today. My visits to the UK are usually via Manchester Airport and take in the areas around Leeds and Huddersfield. Thankfully the trains to and from Manchester Airport are reasonably reliable, but experience is further afield there is a sad tale of cancelled and late trains. I would dread to be a regular commuter on this network.
Conversely, in Switzerland (where I live) we enjoy a first class rail and public transport network which is clean, reliable and punctual. While it is not 100% perfect (now and again we get late trains) it is possible with a high degree of certainty to arrange appointments that involve travel on public transport. Also, the different modes of transport are properly integrated, thus if you travel to a place by train, there is almost always some form of local transit such as tram or bus to get you from the train station to your destination. Add to this a fairly comprehensive ticketing system - now integrated into mobile apps - so there it is easy to buy a ticket from one end of the country to the other which can also cover your transit within the area of your destination so you are not fiddling with local bus tickets etc.
Most urban areas offer some kind of local transport season ticket which allow one unlimited use of local transit. For example, for just over SFr800 one can purchase an annual pass allowing unlimited use of all public transport within the Zurich central area.
Bringing trains into public ownership will be a start, but proper investment is needed and integration with local transit is also going to be essential to make the trains a viable option for travellers.
Strange how the issue of privatisation and all that was promised (transparency, accountability, efficiency and cost effectiveness in case you forgot) has now got even conservatives praying for re-nationalisation... we are all socialists now!!🤣🤣🤣
50s was a bad strategy, going too far towards freight, but I get the point
I'm actually in favour of state ownership of all essential service, such as power, water and transport. They are all natural monopolies and weird business rules have to be applied due to this. They are used as cash cows for private companies and investment is discouraged due to the length of the contracts provided.
Off topic, I was thinking of what you said in the past about the protection of people in reality shows, it seems now contestants in BBC's Strictly Come Dancing to be given chaperones after bullying claims.
One irony of rail privatisation is that BR had restructred over the previous decade from a regional structure largely based on the old "Big Four" companies, into Sectorisation which created dedicated divisions for Inter City, Regional Rail, and different freight sectors such as coal, containers, petrochemical, parcels, etc. This actually worked very well, all BR really needed was decent investment. Selling it off looked like the cheaper option but ended up costing the taxpayer more money for less railway.
I got train few weeks ago fist class Truro to Leeds ( funeral thought it would be easier than driving) first class £600 train didn’t show up no drivers so subsequently the next one was absolutely packed, they allowed the standard to use the first class no problem with that. Birmingham New Street station the escalators out of order, no buffet car till after Manchester. I used to love travelling by train not anymore.
The railways in the UK started going to pots when Thatcher privatised them arguing that they must earn their own way without government support. Well, she was wrong, nowhere in the world is there a rail network that earns its own way. They are all supported in one way or another by the government and that's good so. Railways benefit a country in other ways by offering industry and the population reliable and cost effective transport services.
Thatcher didn't privatise the railway, sure enough there was an element of disposal of some subsidiaries on her watch but the main thrust of privatisation was under John Major with his dreamy nostalgic image of Old Seth the ever dedicated porter, with his highly polished tunic buttons, always turning up to work half an hour before his starting time to light the waiting room fire. Of course, Seth had taken the redundancy money in 1969 and the waiting room of old was demolished and replaced by a soon to be vandalised bus shelter in 1972.
Major sold the pipe dream straight out of some 'Boy's Own' article he read when he was in short trousers, the public bought it despite being warned that the DfT, along with the Treasury, had ideas of their own.
It’s embarassing how bad Rail provision and service is in the UK compared to continental Europe. Don’t even get me started on the cost….. It’s scandalous what they expect us to pay in the UK.
"It’s embarassing how bad Rail provision and service is in the UK compared to continental Europe. Don’t even get me started on the cost….. It’s scandalous what they expect us to pay in the UK."
Sadly, that is just one of the many 'benefits' of our tenure in the EU. Over many decades, successive governments have taken turns in selling of our rail network, and the NHS, to European investors. Having now left the Federalist cabal, we are still in a situation where train operating companies in France, Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands own vast swathes of our rail infrastructure, and are using the profits from ticket prices here, to improve their own rail infrastructure across Europe.
Hopefully, Labour will fix that by renationalising the railways.
@@bowiefan6652You think leaving the EU means things can’t be sold off to or still held by corporations or governments in the EU? I’m afraid that’s just not the case. Nor did membership facilitate privatisation in the first place.
@@hilaryc8648 I'm sorry but you are wrong. Our membership of the EU did indeed facilitate the sale of our rail network to European train operating companies.
"During 1991, following the partly-successful Swedish example and wishing to create an environment where new rail operators could enter the market, the European Union issued EU Directive 91/440."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation_of_British_Rail
Now that we are out of the EU we can refuse to extend these leases when they come up for renewal, and in doing so slowly bring our rail infrastructure back into public ownership.
People (not least on here) look back at nationalised BR through rose-tinted spectacles. I can only assume they never had had to use the railways under BR.
I used to have to travel from Cheshire to London frequently for meetings etc., and BR Inter City was just too unreliable. You never knew if you were going to get there at all, never mind on time, so unreliable was the 'service'. This was because nationalised BR was woefully underfunded, always at the back of the Treasury queue cap in hand way behind the NHS, Education, Police etc. So we flew Manchester to Heathrow on the superbly reliable air service.
Then, at privatisation, along came Virgin West Coast. Initially not a lot changed (except the staff suddenly became customer focused instead of considering passengers a hindrance to THEIR running of THEIR railway). But following privatisation came massive much-needed investment. Modern fast trains which were reliable, a complete re-vamp of the West Coast Main Line including 4-tracking the Trent Valley section, and we got 3 trains an hour each way between Manchester and Euston which were fast and reliable. No one flew to london on business from Manchester any more.
These days it's back to the bad old days of BR. Why? Because in all but name the railway is nationalised! DfT micro-manage every train service from approving train design to deciding which trains will run. The private companies, such as Avanti, no longer receive any fare revenue (which is why tickets are rarely checked costing billions) or contribute any creative thinking. All fares go direct to DfT, and the train companies are all on management contracts at 1.7% of their pre-covid revenue streams.
So if you hanker after a renationalised railway, hanker no more - IT IS HERE! And it is shyte!
One of the major problems is a 3-fold increase in passenger numbers since privatisation, so trains are packed and the infrastructure worn out. DfT crams in as many seats per carriage as possible, so they lack comfort and legroom and no longer align with the windows.
HS2 promised to relieve much of this by freeing up about 70% of the classic Victorian railway's capacity by putting the capacity gobbling high speed non stop trains onto HS2. But Sunak, in a Manchester hotel bar at party conference, decided there were Tory votes in ditching HS2, which will now still cost an absolute fortune but deliver very little in the way of capacity release.
Labour needs to reinstate HS2 and most important of all, get the meddling fingers of DfT accountants of the railway and instigate the promised GBR to run an integrated railway system. Whether it is state owned, privatised, or a mixture is just not relevant.
The railway system is just another victim of greedy fat cats and austerity. I remember even 15 years ago there was a lot of talk about the railways needing to be updated to fit the needs of modern day Britain. Instead the goverment decided to waste time, money and resources on if you please exclude my language on shit like HS2. There is no other way to describe it, its a financial and resource black hole that should have gone the way of the dodo 5 years ago. Imagine the difference £56 BILLION could have made to our railway infrastructure across the UK. Most people just want a railway service that functions within a 100 mile distance reliably, fairly priced and stress free since vast majority of people want to take a train for a day out or to travel to work, college and university. Not some bizarre long range adventure to Scotland from London.
Professor, as a train driver can I just highlight a few of your points. Firstly overall I agree with you. But a few points to ponder.
1) On board announcements. Many of these announcements are insisted upon by the DFT. The security announcements are a classic example of this.
2) I think we have to remember that overtime for a driver isn't just an hour or two at the end of a shift. It is a whole shift on what should be a rest day. That is a big commitment and a commitment most of us are unwilling to participate in whilst the last government sought to go to war with us. Lets hope this government has a different approach, we need some goodwill back.
3) The problem with privatisation is that in a sense it is a victim of it's own capitalist failings. Instead of training crews many of the companies poached them from other companies. This is part of the problem. I'm not sure how you will solve that whilst you have a £20k difference in wage scales.
They need to get the pay disputes sorted ASAP. Only then will staff be able to work overtime in order to operate the timetable.
End Transport for London subsidies. Why should someone in Middlesbrough, a very impoverished part of the UK, pay to subsidise transport in the sewer that is London. London is now the least efficient part of the UK and it is reliant on income from the wealth generated in Scotland, which will only get worse under Labour.
🤣🤣🤣
Steam prof 😀
It's no coincidence that life and services have diminished since 1979, Thatcher popularism has been a disaster, yet people still voted for private companies running services... welcome too third world Tory Britian
It all started with the push to add women to the work force if you ask me. Social damage occurred there, there is a reason that communities broke down and we now have a system where people do not raise their own children, they are in childcare from the age of 1 and it would be a miracle if people actually knew and talked to their next door neighbours.
Trains were always much more reliable when nationalised.
Trains should be a nationalised entity,but Water should be the priority.
Your feedback should be made to the private companies that run the railways, Prof. maybe Labour will bring back into public ownership, those franchises that fail either financially, or by failure to maintain set operating standards….including limiting fare increases and financial management payments of bonus or share options etc
Silly fares, silly service and despite Virgin having its issues at least they could run Trains reasonably on time and faster. Avienti is all flash but most trains have some kind of delay or cancellation on that west coast line. Whoever was the clown to flog off the trains to private money making funds after BR have made a bags of the network. Also there is little or no flexibility between the rail companies, for example with BR a local train driver probably had route knowledge and could drive an intercity train on the same route if required but that’s not possible these days.
I wonder if they’ll renationalise Royal Mail.
I wish you refer to the physical realm as opposed to the metaphorical realm, on the subject in hand.
Do you think that "the Government" could run the trains any better?
They did once.
If private companies cannot run a decent service then the service has to be naturalised
You'd know better than most prof as you travel a lot by train. It looks like the train operating companies could have their franchises cancelled for breach of contract at no cost to the tax payer.
You do much better when you are not trying to be a polite version of Fox News.👍
I think it will be a difficult task to nationalise the railways, but I hope they go ahead with it. I find it is down to luck sometimes when going on a train trip. I almost got stranded at Gatwick the other week after flying home from Switzerland. My flight was late coming in and I was in a rush to get to the train station to catch the last train to where I live on the south coast. One of the staff by the ticket machines gave me the wrong information and told me I needed to go to platform 4, when I really needed platform 7! By the time I got the correct information I just about made it as the train was coming in! I find some of the staff are good at what they do, but others don't seem to know their a** from their elbow. It's not the first time I've been wrongly informed!
The original problem was that not only did the government put in huge amounts of money but the trains if they ran were not on time. The unions were always calling for strikes. It seems nothing has changed. There still appears to be a 'thus' and 'them'. Government has been replaced by private businesses yet nothing seems to have changed but the price of a ticket. The government always used to be held to ransom first using transport and trains. I would suggest you ask the Union leader to do a report on the best way forward. He always seems to have a lot of complaints he's the one that needs to come up with the suggestions. Where does the money come from? For all labour proposals you need to borrow or tax!
Except of course the train owners have no track, so there will be a mutually convenient deal
Unfortunately Professor, the only correct solution to take the trains forward was your pet hate, namely HS2. The whole point of HS2 was not its speed, it was the fact that it took all the West Coat Main Line trains from Glasgow and the NW onto separate tracks and the Eastern Leg was to take all the Midland Main Line express trains and East Coast Main Line trains from Edinburgh, Newcastle onto these seperate fast lines also. All these trains would travel at the same fast speed meaning no MIXING of traffic types. This entails more trains can run in fast paths. The freed up West Coast Main Line, Midland Main Line and East Coast Main Line would then cater for more stopping trains and freight all travelling at SIMILAR speeds to ensure more paths per hour. This would open up new through trains from such places as Grimsby, Lincoln, Shrewsbury, Chester and North Wales to occupy the freed space. The understanding of rail transport is the fact that more trains can be run if they do not conflict and all run at the same speed. Freight is log jammed with no paths left between Birmingham and Manchester. This was all to be achieved with NO DISRUPTION to existing traffic because this is all new build. The railway infrastructure in this country is on average 180 years old and failing. THIS WAS NEVER a prestige project but an ESSENTIAL requirement that the railway requested and fought hard to win only to become a politicians and commentators plaything. I am sad you chose the wrong side and assisted in its destruction and only now come on to complain about the state of our railways. Please look up Gareth Dennis Railnatter on U Tube and he will fill you in with the Rail Reality.
Tim, are you by any chance like me, a grumpy old man?
I don’t know what century you were travelling in, but the train service has never been on time. And as for people talking on a train, not sure how labour are going to save us from that horrendous thought. 😂
Won't be no use having them run by the current labour government because u-turns are not possible on rail tracks. 😅😅
I really need to get my glasses updated, I thought the title read "labour take on the trans"