A Gun For Aiming: M8C .50 Caliber Spotting Rifle

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ค. 2022
  • utreon.com/c/forgottenweapons/
    / forgottenweapons
    Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.forgottenweapons.com
    The M8C is a .50 caliber self-loading rifle designed to mount on top of the 106mm M40 recoilless rifle. The recoilless rifle creates a massive signature when fired, and so it is imperative that operators move immediately after firing. In order to make accurate first-round hits, the M8C was built with a unique 12.7x77mm cartridge which matches the trajectory of the 106mm round. Using a tracer-spotter projectile, the M40 gunner is able to adjust aim with spotter rounds that will not be noticed by the target and ensure a good hit with the first 106mm shot.
    This example has been fitted to a tripod for shooting, which its not historically appropriate - but is convenient.
    Contact:
    Forgotten Weapons
    6281 N. Oracle 36270
    Tucson, AZ 85740

ความคิดเห็น • 762

  • @lanceocana9059
    @lanceocana9059 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1966

    This must be the most american telescope ive ever seen

    • @justindunlap1235
      @justindunlap1235 2 ปีที่แล้ว +92

      More of a rangefinder, but I agree with the sentiment.

    • @zXPeterz14
      @zXPeterz14 2 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      I believe lots of tanks/artillery from around the world used similar guns using tracers

    • @PerSon-xg3zr
      @PerSon-xg3zr 2 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      @@zXPeterz14 Even rocket launchers and recoilless rifles use something like that. But it's 9mm tracers.

    • @u2beuser714
      @u2beuser714 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      The bigger the more american it is

    • @zXPeterz14
      @zXPeterz14 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@u2beuser714 russian 50cal is bigger than american bmg

  • @GaldirEonai
    @GaldirEonai 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1490

    There's an old sci-fi story that had automatic weapon systems based on this in a WW3 trench warfare scenario. Spotting rifles would randomly fire into various pieces of concealment in no-mans-land (an arctic wasteland, so lots of shifting snowdrifts and the like) with powerful directional microphones listening to the impact. Any metallic sound would immediately be followed up by an anti-tank round...

    • @andreasottohansen7338
      @andreasottohansen7338 2 ปีที่แล้ว +185

      That is fucking awesome.

    • @singedeguerre3028
      @singedeguerre3028 2 ปีที่แล้ว +43

      This is sound cool where is it from?

    • @GaldirEonai
      @GaldirEonai 2 ปีที่แล้ว +331

      @@singedeguerre3028 Short story by Frank Herbert (yes, the Dune guy) called "Cease Fire". It's terrifying on multiple levels.

    • @dbmail545
      @dbmail545 2 ปีที่แล้ว +67

      @@GaldirEonai thought it sounded familiar. I read a lot of early Frank Herbert after I had read dune. The "Bureau of Sabotage" series is my favorite.

    • @GaldirEonai
      @GaldirEonai 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@dbmail545 Oh yes. Jorj McKie is such a fun character :D.

  • @Astraeus..
    @Astraeus.. 2 ปีที่แล้ว +423

    Legend has it that this "sighting gun" was itself sighted by a .357 S&W Magnum, which in turn was sighted using a .45 ACP Derringer. By the time the whole unit was properly sighted, half the enemy targets were already dead.

    • @brianmccarthy5557
      @brianmccarthy5557 2 ปีที่แล้ว +65

      You forgot the rubber slingshot to sight the derringer and the rocks for throwing to sight the slingshot. My understanding is that your very first action was to spit into the air to gauge windage for the rocks.

    • @IchlasulAmmal
      @IchlasulAmmal 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      LOL, great comment 😂😂

    • @amunson440
      @amunson440 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@brianmccarthy5557 the funny thing about this is, when you think about it, our most advanced infantry weaponry still just amounts to throwing rocks really, really hard 😂

  • @marcusmoonstein242
    @marcusmoonstein242 2 ปีที่แล้ว +341

    Back in the 80's I was in the South African Army, and I can remember having a chat to a paratrooper who trained on the 106mm recoilless rifle. He specifically mentioned that the ballistic matching on the 12.7mm spotting round was pretty much perfect. The 106 would land exactly where the 12.7 landed every time.

    • @Treblaine
      @Treblaine 2 ปีที่แล้ว +35

      Should have kept them around as cheap bunker busters.

    • @shawnc5188
      @shawnc5188 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      I’ve seen one of these rounds explode in the chamber an pepper an M40 gunner in the chest with burning powder. Thankfully he wasn’t badly injured.

    • @thesaddestdude3575
      @thesaddestdude3575 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@shawnc5188 Poor guy, hope he had a swift recovery!

    • @shawnc5188
      @shawnc5188 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      @@thesaddestdude3575 Happened in early 1991, he had some minor burn marks on his neck and chest, but nothing major. I still remember that Lima Foxtrot incident as a USN MEU was sailing by on the way to GW1, and their comms jammed all our signal sets - some idiot repeating “Mercedes Now” over and over, so it wasn’t constructive as we were doing an infantry battalion heavy weapons shoot.

    • @davidvenegas6401
      @davidvenegas6401 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

      This method was used on tanks also. If you heard a single strong metalic bullet strike it was often followed by the main gun.

  • @feldweible
    @feldweible 2 ปีที่แล้ว +345

    We used to call the spotting rifle shot "Firing the Oh Round".
    Because after that registers on target, they have about as long as it takes to say; "Oh!" before the M40 round hits.
    I hated seeing those guns leave the arsenal. They were so versatile. It only took 5 Marines to carry it by hand when broken down into Gun tube, Tripod and T&E Block.

    • @asteroidrules
      @asteroidrules 2 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      It's been very interesting to see what's happened to them since then though. A lot of spotting and training rifles have gone on to have some very unusual lives. In Ukraine right now they're actually repurposing barrel insert rifles which were made to train Soviet tank crews as heavy sniper rifles.

    • @WineScrounger
      @WineScrounger 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@asteroidrules they’re inventive people, gotta hand it to them

    • @someweirdguyew9757
      @someweirdguyew9757 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@WineScrounger A corollary to necessity being the mother of invention, is that it is perilous for a nation-state to inflict asymmetrical necessity on an enemy nation.

    • @WineScrounger
      @WineScrounger 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@someweirdguyew9757 or indeed to make a nation its enemy. I’m sure Ukraine would have happily just carried on and left Russia alone.

    • @faryldaryl3975
      @faryldaryl3975 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Funny you should mention that. A decade or three ago when I was researching the 20-round mag I had, I read somewhere that gunners could clear out a building/bunker just by firing the spotting round in there. The occupants assumed the reckless round would be following shortly and took the opportunity to abandon the real estate.

  • @RichardCasto
    @RichardCasto 2 ปีที่แล้ว +261

    This solves a mystery for me. I had an empty 50cal cartridge in my pile of misc brass that was too short to be 50 BMG (12.7x99) and I didn't know what it was for. The headstamp was no help. Then while watching this I was like "Ah ha!" I went and measured it and yep, it was 12.7x77.

    • @mr6johnclark
      @mr6johnclark 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      nice! How long did you live with that mystery?

    • @redcat9436
      @redcat9436 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      What headstamp does it have?

    • @Taistelukalkkuna
      @Taistelukalkkuna 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      But Headstamp Publishing was. (Thank you. I´m here all week)

    • @RichardCasto
      @RichardCasto 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@redcat9436 One letter/number on each four ordinal points. F, A, O, 9

    • @RichardCasto
      @RichardCasto 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@mr6johnclark About a decade. It was mixed in with some other items I had inherited.

  • @sortius_
    @sortius_ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +646

    These were used on the M50 Ontos (because it had the M40 recoilless rifles), and similar systems (with M2 Brownings) were used on the Centurions and Chieftain tanks for ranging their main guns. All predating laser rangefinders, obviously, which completely changed everything.

    • @Warfaremachine0095
      @Warfaremachine0095 2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      An useful info I'm about to exploit in Warthunder

    • @TheNorthHawk
      @TheNorthHawk 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Doesn't the SMAW used by the USMC have a 9mm ranging gun, though? Isn't that a little anachronistic? Or is it meant as a redundancy?

    • @BitchenMarsRockstar
      @BitchenMarsRockstar 2 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @@Warfaremachine0095 Check controls, you need to separate your spotting rifle from regular MGs because some of them have the same tracer colors.

    • @leonjohansen1818
      @leonjohansen1818 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@Warfaremachine0095 I just tried it, they're not the same ballistic trajectory at all.

    • @TheCandidPygmy
      @TheCandidPygmy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@TheNorthHawk A redundancy would make sense. You never know what will happen.

  • @astridvallati4762
    @astridvallati4762 2 ปีที่แล้ว +271

    Back in 72, in 2/14 QMI ( light horse) we had an AT troop with M40s on Beachbuggy Landrovers.
    I got to fire them.
    Driver would locate vehicle in hull down shooting position, Gunner (me) would lay the gun with scope, Loader would chamber 106 round, clear Back Blast area, tap me on s shoulder, One round M48 50 Spotter to confirm lay, and Bang! 106mm Round on target, Loader Jumps aboard, Driver guns engine in reverse, and we Scoot to new position.
    Great Times!
    Doc AV

    • @wes11bravo
      @wes11bravo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      Ahh, the old shoot n' scoot berm drills. About the only time you can almost recklessly drive around a large dangerous vehicle in training (M113A3 in my case).

    • @Jay22222
      @Jay22222 2 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      I’m sure it’s extremely common among vets but I’ll post it for everyone else anyway:
      During the 50’s a relative serving in the British armed forces had a friend reprimanded after recklessly riding a motorcycle.
      He was charged with:“Driving with excessive zeal.”
      It’s always stuck with me as hilarious.
      Now I think about it, it may actually have been my relative. Will edit and confirm.

    • @chuckhainsworth4801
      @chuckhainsworth4801 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Sounds familiar, except for me it was 77, 2PPCLI and jeeps. Last class before we switched to TOW.

  • @admiralboot
    @admiralboot 2 ปีที่แล้ว +39

    You see Ivan, if we put gun on gun, gun will never miss

    • @juj9305
      @juj9305 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      yes but Instead with more patriotic abilities

    • @zXPeterz14
      @zXPeterz14 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The russians did the same but on tanks

  • @danielwang2956
    @danielwang2956 2 ปีที่แล้ว +73

    Mounted one on my camera's telephoto lens, worked like a charm. The .50 really helps to make sure the wildlife stays still when I take their pictures

    • @thesaddestdude3575
      @thesaddestdude3575 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Amazing comment!

    • @eddiemurray55
      @eddiemurray55 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wily Coyote School of Gunnery WCSOG!
      Do you photograph weddings?

  • @erichartmann7110
    @erichartmann7110 2 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    I was trained as a 106mm RG section commander in the '80s. The way we charge the spotting rifle was palms down n pull back, not palms up pull back (as shown 6'50" of the video). This was due to the sharp edges of the ejection port right about in the middle. You may cut yourself in the palm if you pull back with your palm facing upwards. It is safer to pull back with your thumb and pointer finger sliding along the rifle body, palms facing down. Just sharing. Nice to see this old bugger again after so many years.

  • @philipsturtivant9385
    @philipsturtivant9385 2 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    I had an anti-tank platoon with 6 x 120mm WOMBAT recoilless AT rifles in Berlin (1981-83). They each had a 50 cal spotting rifle, but the trajectory of the spotting rounds was mismatched to the main armament, because the size, mass and low velocity of the HESH round meant that it not only arced in the vertical plane, but also (because of the rifling induced spin on its front-to-rear axis), it 'rolled' and drifted - consistently, I might add - to the right as it travelled.
    Zeroing the system was a complicated affair, (telescope - dead straight LOS, 50 cal vertically parabolic trajectory, main armament parabolic trajectory on the V axis with a built-in right-hand Yaw on the H axis . . . )
    Teaching the lesson "Theory of Zeroing" was very distinctly an Officer's Job, let me tell you 😀
    Happy daze

  • @thedangersofboredom
    @thedangersofboredom 2 ปีที่แล้ว +139

    SPOTTING rifle. I misread the title as sporting rifle. Now I’ve seen plenty of odd things marketed as sporting arms but I was about to say now this is a bit far but then I focused my eyes.

    • @xxxggthyf
      @xxxggthyf 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I just did exactly the same but I blame not having my glasses on.

    • @lairdcummings9092
      @lairdcummings9092 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Depends on what you think of as "Sporting." 😛

    • @phucletran2860
      @phucletran2860 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      “Be vewwy vewwy quiet, i hunting panzer iv. Hehehehehe :D”

    • @Getpojke
      @Getpojke 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@lairdcummings9092 I saw a Punt Gun being demonstrated a good number of years ago now & remember thinking that it didn't seem very sporting. [I know its not a rifle & is classed as a shotgun. But standing near it when it went off it seemed more like a canon using grapeshot]. Remember thinking at the time that I was amazed no one every employed them in WWI as a way of breaking up charges against the lines, would have been devastating.

    • @lairdcummings9092
      @lairdcummings9092 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Getpojke punt guns are notoriously slow to load; not very efficient. Machine guns did a bloodily effective job - no need for exotics.

  • @MichaelSmith-ms3jw
    @MichaelSmith-ms3jw 2 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    We used these as part of a subcaliber training device on the M-60 tank. We mounted it on top of the main gun like we later mounted the M2. The vehicles we fired at were manned. We fired non-AP incendiary rounds at the up-armored M114s with steel plates welded on. This was in the 80s and sounds as primitive as all hell now - but it did at the time too.

  • @Die-CastMetal
    @Die-CastMetal 2 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    I’m putting a 22 rifle on top of all my AK47‘s in lieu of sights.

    • @joshuabessire9169
      @joshuabessire9169 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I like how you think. I'm gonna use my 106mm recoiless on my Davy Crockett.

  • @iainclark5373
    @iainclark5373 2 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    I was trained as a M40 106mm gunner back in the 80s at Walvis bay in Namibia. We used to remove the bolt from the spotter and use a zeroing cap in the breech of the main gun to boresight the 2 systems together. Often using the church spire in town as our aiming point. Excellent video.

    • @georgeau2523
      @georgeau2523 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      What do you mean by 'Zeroing cap'?

    • @iainclark5373
      @iainclark5373 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@georgeau2523 It was a cap that went into the breech and had an aperture for bore sighting, spotting rifle and optical sight to the same point approx 1200m in the distance. Was part of the cleaning and maintenance kit.

  • @thomashyler6174
    @thomashyler6174 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    I remember shooting the 106 back in the late 70's. The back blast was tearing chunks out of the asphalt behind the firing line. The trigger reminded me of a door know. Semper fi

  • @stephen2429
    @stephen2429 2 ปีที่แล้ว +74

    We had these on our 120mm Conbat & Wombat anti- tank guns. Great watch. After a range day and all our 120mm hesh rounds were fired we would use up all the remaining spotting rounds on hard targets.

    • @mauricestainsby196
      @mauricestainsby196 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I thought they started with a Bren on the Mobat but I guess the round was too small.

    • @stephen2429
      @stephen2429 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@mauricestainsby196 That's right, long before my time. Conbat, Wombat then Milan, that's my experiences.

  • @Pepe_Le_Pew_Pew
    @Pepe_Le_Pew_Pew 2 ปีที่แล้ว +61

    The mk 153 SMAW has a 9mm version as well this is still a viable option for aiming shoulder launched anti-tank dumb rounds

    • @zrspangle
      @zrspangle ปีที่แล้ว +1

      9x51 SMAW is such a darn silly cartridge. It's 3 different cartridges jammed into one

  • @ThomasAdsumus
    @ThomasAdsumus 2 ปีที่แล้ว +72

    Saw one of those from up close a few weeks ago. The Brazilian Army had an antique weapons display and at the Brazilian Expeditionary Force section they had a M38A1C. My son is only 1 year old so i couldn't explain to him what it was, but took some pictures of him on the drivers seat to explain to him what it was in the future hahahaha Sadly it didn't had the magazine attached (for obvious reasons) so thank you for i was curious about it.

  • @Hansengineering
    @Hansengineering 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    To install springs without kinking, pull bolt to rear, install springs into bolt. Press springs forward as you press bolt forward. Tension and latch plugs.

  • @abchaplin
    @abchaplin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +46

    These remained in service with the Jeep-mounted106 in the armour defence platoons of Canadian Forces' reserve manoeuvre units into the 1980s. Their field stripping looks niggly and I am glad that I never had to do it in winter (I was never a 106 gunner).

  • @drollieascoliasm9667
    @drollieascoliasm9667 2 ปีที่แล้ว +78

    My Dad was on an Ontos in Vietnam. He always praised this aiming system. The Museum of the America GI in College Station Texas has a fully restored M50 Ontos. It worth a look if your in the area.

    • @sleepyrasta14820
      @sleepyrasta14820 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hopefully Ian see's your comment

    • @charlesdoesstuff7379
      @charlesdoesstuff7379 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Holy shit I'm a little ways down the road from there about 2 hours. Guess I've got a weekend trip in the making now.

    • @drollieascoliasm9667
      @drollieascoliasm9667 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You missed it this year, but in March the GI museum does a living history weedend. It awesome they actual run the Tanks in field behind the museum with a demo battle.

    • @drollieascoliasm9667
      @drollieascoliasm9667 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Sofilein posted a video at the museums living history weekend 2021 of my Dad describing M50 operations. Me and Dad had great time their and love that museum.

    • @ibubezi7685
      @ibubezi7685 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@drollieascoliasm9667 Thanks - she posted the 2022 weekend Ontos a month ago.

  • @georgegordonbrown9522
    @georgegordonbrown9522 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    I appreciate how you said "self loading" instead of semi-automatic. A lot of non-gun people are confused when they hear semi-automatic. They could think it´s a kind of automatic. And as always: great video.

    • @Dimetropteryx
      @Dimetropteryx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Not to get too technical, but self-loading and semi-automatic ARE different things. Even a lot of gun people don't know the difference, but not all semi-automatics are self-loading.

    • @Dimetropteryx
      @Dimetropteryx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @real pedroppp To qualify as semi-automatic, the gun only needs to eject the spent cartridge and possibly reset the striker. A self-loader also loads itself. A semi-automatic doesn't necessarily cycle, unless it's also self-loading.

    • @Dimetropteryx
      @Dimetropteryx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @real pedroppp This is established terminology, self-ejecting isn't a thing.
      This isn't about putting "self" and "loading" together and yelling "Aha! It loads itself!"

    • @Dimetropteryx
      @Dimetropteryx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @real pedroppp Those are semi-automatic now.

    • @Dimetropteryx
      @Dimetropteryx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @real pedroppp How do you figure?

  • @balancedfordaylight1
    @balancedfordaylight1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    that 12.7 x 77 would make an interesting sporting cartridge in a bolt action rifle

    • @clintcannon1902
      @clintcannon1902 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Are you hunting small buildings in the next zip code?

    • @christopherreed4723
      @christopherreed4723 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Hey! Just wait until *you're* attacked by a raging Eegee's!

  • @STB-jh7od
    @STB-jh7od 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    In late 90s, I was at a gun range and met a guy who built 4 shot revolver (yes hand-gun) in .50 spotter, this round.

  • @pdxyyz4327
    @pdxyyz4327 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I've seen them in use with the M40. Very cool to see them used at night. Watching the tracer go down range then ricochet off the target. The M40 fired at night is something to behold.

  • @gfr2023
    @gfr2023 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    my uncle use this in Italian Army during '60s he told me they where trained as a team on board of the FIAT Campagnola "jeep" armed with 106mm recoilless, they stop, aimed and fire the tracer, adjust fire the 106mm and run away of position... Don't forget to yell "attenti al 106!!" (pay attention to 106mm) when you fire !!

    • @thesaddestdude3575
      @thesaddestdude3575 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Its funny, that vehicle is in warthunder and can be played!

    • @gfr2023
      @gfr2023 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@thesaddestdude3575 really ? I'm going to install that game

    • @zrspangle
      @zrspangle ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@thesaddestdude3575different vehicles, the campagnola was a proper Willys inspired jeep. The 6614 is an armoured car.

  • @qingyunwang3802
    @qingyunwang3802 2 ปีที่แล้ว +66

    Fun fact: Japanese Howa Type 64 7.62mm automatic rifle borrowed some of M8C's working principle (esp. the receiver).

  • @B9oyd
    @B9oyd 2 ปีที่แล้ว +158

    Im fairly certain that if you HAD TO a .50cal exploding tracer round would delete an emergent threat infantryman rather quickly, without you needing to offload the primary round

    • @zacharyrollick6169
      @zacharyrollick6169 2 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      Accidentally, of course.

    • @colbeausabre8842
      @colbeausabre8842 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@justforever96 Having been an AT platoon leader, if someone exposed himself two klicks away thinking he was safe, we might just kill him on general principles to remove him from the gene pool. You have to be judgmental, though. Do you really want to give away your AT position (remember, you're paid to kill tanks)

    • @BatCaveOz
      @BatCaveOz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +35

      @@justforever96 Rules of Engagement don't always require an enemy to be deemed an "emergent threat".
      "Targets of Opportunity" are definitely a thing.

    • @dogcarman
      @dogcarman 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@zoiders Recon by fire is best recon. 👍

    • @RhodokTribesman
      @RhodokTribesman 2 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      If the AT guy is so unsupported that he has to use his spotting rounds for infantry, your tactics have already failed tremendously at the platoon level.

  • @justindunlap1235
    @justindunlap1235 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for making this video, I've been wanting to see one of these since you mentioned it during the recoilless rifle video.

  • @hanktorrance6855
    @hanktorrance6855 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    There is a legend that all 6 guns of the Ontos were fired at once at Aberdeen Proving grounds, and the concussion from the firing blew out the glass in all the cars in the nearby parking lot....hence the need for a spotting round....as Ian indicates, the 106 is not a stealthy weapon.

  • @kylehenline3245
    @kylehenline3245 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Aw man. I read a book by a guy that crewed one of these during vietnam and have always been curious! The context y'all add to historical battles is superb!

  • @LoanwordEggcorn
    @LoanwordEggcorn 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Superb description as always. Thanks Ian.

  • @marcusborderlands6177
    @marcusborderlands6177 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Hey, I love these spotting rifles! Possibly one of my favorite types of gun, something designed to NOT shot people, but still fires bullets like anything else. It's honestly quite interesting.

  • @DeereX748
    @DeereX748 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A gentleman about 3 miles from me has a large collection of militaria, which he uses for re-enactments, photo shoots and parades. he has one of these in operating condition, mounted on a M40A2 Recoilless rifle, which in turn is mounted on a M38 Jeep. It's totally awesome.

  • @pirig-gal
    @pirig-gal 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Cool idea to make the round glow a different colour as it travels. Makes for an easy (if inaccurate) distance indicator.

  • @johnib5905
    @johnib5905 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wonderful! I love the M8C, and I'm so happy to get such a good look at it!

  • @FIREBRAND38
    @FIREBRAND38 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Ian, from TM 9-1000-205-12 dated March 1959:
    "Cal. .50 spotting rifle M8C is the only model spotting rifle covered in this
    manual. As prescribed by MWO ORD B48-Wl, all rifles of early manufacture,
    designated cal. .50 spotting rifle M8 will be converted to cal. .50 spotting
    rifle M8C before issue. This modification consists of machining a counterbored
    hole in the firing mechanism housing of cal. .50 spotting rifle M8
    to permit installation of an electrical safety mechanism when the rifle is
    used with multiple 106-mm full tracked self-propelled rifle M50 (TM
    9-7222). A "C" is then stamped after the M8 designation on the receiver of
    the rifle. This modification does not affect troop use or care within the
    scope of this manual."

  • @ST-kr7hz
    @ST-kr7hz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for all the work you put into this excellent, informative and entertaining channel, Ian.

  • @hpummel5402
    @hpummel5402 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Funny thing about the mags being pretty common. I actually have a 20rnd one myself. Picked it a few years ago at a gun shop that was going out of business.

  • @WineScrounger
    @WineScrounger 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I’ve had an inert spotting round like this for years. Never seen the rifle that it fits until now.

  • @ebla83
    @ebla83 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So happy to see this as my dad crewed an M50 Ontos in Vietnam. He always talked about these.

  • @jamesconner1639
    @jamesconner1639 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That's SO crazy but yet makes tons of sense.
    Very cool!
    Man I Love this channel!

  • @sealiosshorts
    @sealiosshorts 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    “Self loading 50 caliber rifle” such beautiful words

    • @weswolever7477
      @weswolever7477 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Makes me go all weak in the knees

  • @MandoWookie
    @MandoWookie 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I now wish I had the talent and time to gather up a bunch of those 20 round magazines and make some kind of semi-auto rifle around them to fire that short .50 round. Style it like a massive M14, and chamber it in .50 Special.

    • @randomidiot8142
      @randomidiot8142 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Pretty sure the .50 spotter reamer is available.

  • @alancranford3398
    @alancranford3398 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I enjoyed this video. The M40 recoilless rifle 106mm was still in Marine Corps service when I was in boot camp and I saw a live-fire demonstration as part of my training. Later, when the Army sent me to an 80-hour Unit Armorer Course, the M40 and its spotting rifle were out of the inventory, but I learned that there were still some spotting rifles and ammunition in the supply system--probably wartime reserves or used as military aid. You've given me a detailed look on the innards of the M8C spotting rifle that I thought I'd never get.

  • @Marc_Wolfe
    @Marc_Wolfe 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    OOOOO. Sounds so smooth and seems so well engineered, simple and reliable was obviously the primary goal on the engineer's mind. That firing pin block/retractor is... top tier design.

  • @JS-ed2hg
    @JS-ed2hg 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another great video, Keep up the good work and shoot safe

  • @leeharveyspawnpeekoswald8495
    @leeharveyspawnpeekoswald8495 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    This is why we don't get invaded even our scopes shoot AT rounds

    • @gloopygloyper9892
      @gloopygloyper9892 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Lul invaded my man you've already been conquered.

  • @jalowery1246
    @jalowery1246 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Clean,simple, and efficient engineering. Cool!

  • @narkill034
    @narkill034 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for showing me this. One of these hanging from the ceiling at the surplus store in North Las Vegas and I had no idea what it was. More knowledge

  • @Perfusionist01
    @Perfusionist01 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    NICE! I have read about the 106's for years and have seen references to the spotting rifle, but nobody has gone into detail on the M8C, how it worked, or the very special ammo for it. As a bonus, in the next video we actually get to see it go BANG. Good stuff Ian!

  • @Shadow_Hawk_Streaming
    @Shadow_Hawk_Streaming 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    anyone else wanna see someone reform some brass to make some loads up in fmj and build a stock system for it to allow Ian to undertake a shooting match with it?

  • @xXxNECROMONGERxXx
    @xXxNECROMONGERxXx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    M2 at home.

  • @MrYoyo200
    @MrYoyo200 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Damn this is the earliest I've been to a video, it showed up in my sidebar while watching some random meme video. TH-cam has blessed me.

  • @MythicMagus
    @MythicMagus 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's always nice to get videos of something I've never even heard of before.

  • @Allan_aka_RocKITEman
    @Allan_aka_RocKITEman 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video, Ian.

  • @aviatorengineer3491
    @aviatorengineer3491 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I was surprised to learn about systems like this when I first heard of the Mk 153's spotting rifle, it's still cool to hear about them in other weapon systems.

  • @gregcampwriter
    @gregcampwriter 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    "Okay, see that thing over there with the half inch hole in it?"
    "Yeah."
    "It needs a bigger hole."

  • @foobar-9k
    @foobar-9k 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Not only I learn about guns on this channel (I was not interested in guns before, but Ian's presentation is great, and I like the mechanical aspects), but it also helps improve my poorly self-taught "English".
    FINALLY I understood the word "kink" (and the "other" meaning) after Ian used it regarding that spring :-)

  • @danielburgess7785
    @danielburgess7785 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Forgotten vs Never Knew Existed Usually learn something of interest from our Host. Thank you Mr. M..

  • @ChevTecGroup
    @ChevTecGroup 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Always wanted to see a live one of these since I was a kid.

  • @spondulixtanstaafl7887
    @spondulixtanstaafl7887 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting, thanks again for the great content.

  • @guillermocumplido1920
    @guillermocumplido1920 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video Ian👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

  • @Joe3pops
    @Joe3pops 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The Brits adapted this for thier 120mm revoiless rifle as well. Seen them used night time fire at Camp Wainwright Alberta. Main gun & spotting rifle.

  • @REXOB9
    @REXOB9 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fascinating gun! Thanks.

  • @ChrisB.C.
    @ChrisB.C. 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I knew these existed but this is the first one I've actually seen. Leave it to Ian!

  • @vega1287
    @vega1287 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    i've actually seen one if these spotting rifles on a recoiless rifle in a museum and it truely is a sight to behold

  • @Romin.777
    @Romin.777 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That's a total new genre for me, a spotting gun in .50 cal that shoots tracers. Nice.
    GOD bless you all.

  • @ihcfn
    @ihcfn 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Things like this is why I watch forgotten weapons! 👍

  • @ditzydoo4378
    @ditzydoo4378 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've serviced the M8C before, this spotter uses a shortened 12.7×76mm cartridge that is ballistically matched to the M-40 (105mm) recoilless rifle. The military called its ammo 106mm to help prevent the accidental firing of the M-40 ammo in the earlier 105mm recoilless rifle, M-27. The 12.7x99mm of the M2/M3 service .50-cal machine-gun will not fit. I believe the (C) markings are due a clarification in the military model nomenclature. the term M8 was being used by the M8 greyhound scout car.

  • @jasonbernard4879
    @jasonbernard4879 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Been waiting years for this one.

  • @stephenbrown3929
    @stephenbrown3929 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I found some of these spotter tracer rounds, pulled bullets and loaded up for my 50BMG. They are impressive!

    • @edbecka233
      @edbecka233 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I hope you didn't use an inertia puller - despite the primers being recessed in the nose, those buggers are NOT smack-safe; hell, they're barely bore-safe. Had one go off about 15 yds downrange. My crew was extremely lucky that none of us got any WP burns.

  • @tollutollu
    @tollutollu 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It's silly but as somebody that's done a lot of texture work on 3d art I love the patina on that gun, it looks so nice.

  • @Smallathe
    @Smallathe 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very cool! Thank you!

  • @obamabiden
    @obamabiden ปีที่แล้ว

    perfect ! finally, an optic for my EDC

  • @hansvonmannschaft9062
    @hansvonmannschaft9062 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    That mysterious "C" reminded me of the Colt 1911 occurrence, Ian surely knows it, if he made no comment it must've been due to being knowledge-overloaded 😂
    Anyway, for us mortals, when the 1911 began to be sold on the civilian market, each pistol's serial number would begin with a "C", never an "A", or "B" either, just like this case, excepting that I hardly doubt there's been a "civilian" version of the M40, leading me to humbly believe that it was the third model that became the _charm,_ and thus greenlighted for production/acquisition. Cheers.

    • @AshleyPomeroy
      @AshleyPomeroy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Apparently it stood for "commercial", to separate them from military contract 1911s. A bit of googling suggests the prototype for the spotting rifle was called the T46, and the T46E3 model was the one that worked best, so perhaps that was why it's the C-model. Springfield Armory's collection website reveals it was designed by a chap called Earle Harvey, but the website is horrible to use and the links look like spam.

    • @hansvonmannschaft9062
      @hansvonmannschaft9062 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @UCmtAZswa1MukOcE1Xjm6yaA Seems you nailed it, Ashley. And thanks for the correction, of course, how dumb of mine, in the Colt case, the "C" would've been for "commercial", not "civilian", DOH! 🤦‍♂
      Thanks also for the info on the prototypes!
      As a side note, isn't it funny that apparently the US began this whole "Technical" trend? - haha! Moreover, this just reminded me of the 1998 movie "Black Hawk Down", where some hostile technicals are using *a recoiless gun mounted on a flatbed truck,* before being surprised by Eric Bana & co.
      Ramblings aside, thanks for the reply and info again, have a great weekend!

  • @Angrymuscles
    @Angrymuscles 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    That was the cutest cartridge that I've ever seen. There has to be some conversion kits to make other guns use it.

  • @jzakary1
    @jzakary1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I just realized that Ian McCollum is the firearms equivalent to Bob Ross. I think that's why I love this channel so much. 😉

  • @jackparker1197
    @jackparker1197 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    We have some of these at the museum on Camp Pendleton! Always wondered what it’s nomenclature was, and there are M40’s as well!

  • @brockmcgonig4469
    @brockmcgonig4469 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Sometime in my childhood of collecting I acquired one of these stubby .50 cal brass. It took my years to figure out what it was.

  • @hessex1899
    @hessex1899 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    There was a gunsmith at my childhood range that built a heavy benchrest rifle chambered in .50 Spotter. I'd have gone one step further in the hipster scale and necked it down to .375 and blown out the shoulders", but that's just me. :)

  • @ALAPINO
    @ALAPINO 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I only ever knew about the existence of this thing from a video game. Seems like a fun thing to have.

  • @charlesnash2748
    @charlesnash2748 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    To fire the M40 recoiless rifle, you sit on a seat on one side and look through a telescopic sight. There are two crank wheels, one traverses and one elevates and depresses the rifle. You turn these cranks until you are on the target with the scope. The spotting rifle is fired by pulling a big nob out. It is a semiauto. The .50 cal. spotter rounds are all tracers. As soon as you get a hit with the spotter rifle, you push the nob in and the recoiless rifle fires, vitually instantly. When the M40 is fired, It feels like someone briefly stepped on your chest.

  • @fourgedmushrooms5958
    @fourgedmushrooms5958 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting concept

  • @alanlawson4180
    @alanlawson4180 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Hmmm, pretty sure I remember these from the (UK) WOMBAT anti-tank gun, still in use up to the early '80s. Wombat was a 120mm recoilless rifle used by UK Army either towed by a land rover or mounted on top of a FV432 APC - UK analogue to the M113.

    • @Treblaine
      @Treblaine 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Name a better military acronym than WOMBAT: Weapon Of Magnesium, Batalion Anti-Tank.

    • @alanlawson4180
      @alanlawson4180 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Treblaine And the noise! Probably one reason (along with 84mm) that I'm deaf as
      a post. 1 shot weapons in reality - but anything hit by 120mm squash head was going to be utterly buggered!

  • @gray1shark
    @gray1shark 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I don't think I've ever seen a 20rd .50 mag before. What an interesting piece of hardware.

  • @chethaynes5802
    @chethaynes5802 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very Interesting.
    I have shot that Projectile out of my 50.
    Lots of Fun !

  • @006hetzkin5
    @006hetzkin5 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks. Wanted to know about these mounted on the Ontos.

  • @alextemplet
    @alextemplet 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm honestly amazed they were able to design a mounting that not only allowed you to zero that thing to the main weapon, but KEPT it zeroed while the whole assemblage was bouncing around across rough terrain. That must've been a job and a half.

  • @ravenwarjoy
    @ravenwarjoy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Ah yes, a semi auto .50 cal rifle, the perfect replacement for a scope.

  • @mrvladimirputin9828
    @mrvladimirputin9828 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Ian! Mexican Army uses m40 recoiless rifles in an exposition i saw some years back with i think is one of these, i didnt know the name until this video popped up thanks!

  • @carlbloomquist708
    @carlbloomquist708 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    My dad was in Vietnam, he told me about these… Quality video!

  • @earlyriser8998
    @earlyriser8998 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    that was fascinating

  • @nuclearreactor7058
    @nuclearreactor7058 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    i've found these casings at a range in pendleton and was really curious what they went to.

  • @alexbittonagy4808
    @alexbittonagy4808 ปีที่แล้ว

    Australia used this also, attached to the M40, which we had mounted on a Jeep. Used by a 2 man team.

  • @kevinoverduin3989
    @kevinoverduin3989 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Gives whole new meaning to "just looking"

  • @captainscarlett1
    @captainscarlett1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Wow, I've seen one of these in action. My battalion's AT platoon used the M40 with these attached. I never fired one but I prefer to watch anyway. Bang bang bang boom...boom. Those spotting rounds seem pretty knarly on target too. Very spectacular.

  •  2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks!