I mean, how can a team drop so far down the grid in a single year without even a major regulation change? It’s baffling to say the least. It’s been tough being a Ferrari fan 🤦♂️
@@24bit-176khearts They where cheating before... Well bending the rules might be more accurate. FIA clarified to Ferrari what the rules where and Ferrari lost 40+hp. They built a high downforce car because they had good power to compensate for the drag, then they lost power and the high downforce setup was not optimized for that. FIA also blocked further large changes due to Covid, stifling any major fixes.
I think Jeremy Clarkson once said that when Ferrari are doing good in F1 their road cars suck and when they suck in F1 their road cars are good and they seem to have been busy updating their lineup.
Hello Jason, have you ever thought of doing a series on F1 engine tech? I've always wondered what are the details on what makes F1 engines special. Great video!
Skip that. I want to know about MotoGP motorcycle engines that are getting north of 350hp/liter on normally aspirated light weight engines. Yes, pneumatic valves play a role but that is a crazy power to displacement ratio.
@@Miata822 They are a bit smaller, races are shorter, the tolerances can be ridiculously tight and possibly the stroke can be a bit longer compared to an F1 engine. I would imagine its just a factor of reliability vs efficiency. Im sure one or the other can get 500hp/l for about 10 minutes.
I'm glad you referenced the Honda CVCC technology. My 1978 Civic was so efficient due to the cylinder head design, it could get real world mileage near 40 mpg, and the emissions were so low, the car didn't need a catalytic converter. Literally the last cars sold in the US that still could burn leaded gas. And they achieved that efficient combustion even with an analog carburetor. Kudos to Maserati for pushing the efficiency of internal combustion engine design.
What kinda horsepower? I hit 47-49 mpg in a 2 liter turbo diesel motor in a car that weighs 3400+ pounds lol. I feel like you might have had 40 mpg but not very much power to play with
@@DarkAttack14 This is why you have (need) turbocharging. TJI as an NA engine limits BMEP, but it allows much greater BMEP with turbocharging w/o detonation. So - higher Cr +boost = smaller displacement better power/weight and greatly improved efficiency AND power. BUT, this is limited by high oxygen catalysts disfunction for emissions certification.
@@DarkAttack14 Sorry for an unclear post - -but happy it was amusing 🙂 I was referring to limitations of spark ignited engines. Diesels can and actually do detonate, but it is controlled(eliminated) by injection rate limiting so the burn rate is controlled by injection rate. The idle clatter of old was due to rapid injection of all the (idle) fuel and sudden heat release of the entire charge. Now, there is a pre-injection, (called pilot) that becomes the fireball for the main charge. Detonation will produce rapid rate of rise in combustion pressures and eat piston crowns. Not widely know by the public.
@@billl7551 diesels do not detonate unless in seriously bad condition. detonation refers to ignition before intended which can't happen in a motor that doesn't inject until intended lol now if you're running an old style Bosch VE pump and your timing is way off yeah you could detonate.. Or in a common rail motor if you have oil introduced to the intake from a blown turbo! Even in an old diesel motor with one single injection event it doesn't qualify as detonation
The twin spark plugs and their timing is fascinating. The prechamber with its fixed orifice sizes may have an ideal precombustion pressure differential to the main chamber for best efficiency. Lighting the main chamber plug first would build some preliminary pressure to "stuff" more air and fuel up the prechamber. In theory at least, that could bring the prechamber pressure up around what it would be under higher loads, in essence increasing the precombustion discharge velocity back into the main chamber again. Like a high tech hiccup haha.
Pre-chamber exhaust gas clearing was my first concern when I saw this: there must be some shock wave effect that scoops exhaust gases out before the next cycle, because as the piston goes up that air does not seem to be expelled through the exhaust valves. I suppose dirt accumulation may be solved with a simple cleaning mechanism during periodic maintenance when the spark plugs are replaced - huge advantage of having a small and simple pre-chamber, around the same diameter as the spark plug!
Easy to clean during service was my thought. All it would need is pull the plug, a squirt of solvent/fuel and a (maybe brass) wire brush shaped to suit the chamber in a power drill (or similar). Owners of these sorts of cars are going to get them serviced regularly and are unlikely to do huge distances so it's no big deal.
@@Shaun.Stephens they will also rev the arse off the engine which will help. If you were just town driving I think it'd have a problem, although it still has the second plug so it should still run until you can open up the taps.
Putting on my Engineers hat, I would say that some detailed Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) would have been carried out to analyse this very issue. Also, remember that the fluid being forced into the pre-chamber is an air/gasoline mixture. All gasoline fuels contain some detergent additives/effectiveness in order to clean soot. Combined with the fact that the velocity of the expanding gas jet from the pre-chamber will be relativity high, thereby aiding in the cleaning of any soot. However, as the pre-chamber is so small 10-> 15ml and the jet paths are quite narrow, I would hazard a guess that there may be some long term issues.
@@anthonycanalese2142 , that Is exactly what happens, but if you think about It , wall wetting Is what produces soot. So there should be the problem of soot depositing on the prechamber nozzles. But since you are burning everything with the flames you dont suffer of soot nucleation around the prechamber. The main problem here Is temperature an pressure at Turing. so probably in future we Will see diesel like pistons(stainless steel).
About a year ago patent drawings of a Ferrari V12 appeared on internet. It also had pre-chamber and an additional conventional spark plug. I guess Maserati were granted the premiere...
It'll be combined with "MultiAir" - which is Fiats established take on a camless engine. MultiAir is a hydraulic system, while the Freevalve from Koenigsegg is pneumatic, if I recall correctly.
@@dakotavaughan6488 For a DIYer im fairly proficient with old carbed bikes. Most of these old bikes just have carb issues, once you rectify those issues they run pretty well. Check easy stuff first like spark to all cylinders, make sure fuel is getting to carbs, and every possible carb setting is set to factory default (with the hope that the bike jetting and airbox is stock) etc before you tear the carbs apart via a YT vid or shop manual
The real reason the main chamber spark plug exists is at low loads, the piston cannot "compress" the mixture into the prechamber. A piston is actually getting sucked upwards at part throttle, and then at TDC the mixture may only reach atmospheric pressures. The engine simply wouldn't run smoothly or at all at part throttle.
My biggest concern is also cleanliness of the pre-chamber. It will be interesting to see if the difference in pressure, especially given the volumetric difference, will be enough to keep those tiny little ports clean.
It's already happening, The ICEngines have become nostalgic so now as one would appreciate a fine watch we now appreciate the complexity and beauty of the Internal Combustion Engine with different eyes. I hope we keep innovating ICE.
This reminds me of pulse jet technology were essentially its like a rocket engine. What if the heads had this pre chamber ignition system and was nearly the same diameter of the piston and had small holes and above that existed the valves and the spark plug and the injectors. So essentiaply the piston will get the most out of this. Because a rocket engines injector system does this the same way learned this from Scott Manly who explains in vivid detail how rocket engines work. This is genius. There is more pressure then there would be if it was one giant explosion. The raptor engines use this and so do the engines on most if not all space craft. If we use this in cars it could help so much more with fuel consumption.
@@thomasmullins1783 and ironically, this car starting at $200k is actually considered a relative bargain among the European exotics. I'd love to buy something nice, but the prices have ballooned. Grr!! The logical choice is the C8 Corvette, but dammit... I want that je ne sais quoi. I've yet to find a car at any price which brings back the passion I used to have when I was younger... the irony.... when I had no money I had a million wants and desires... now I have money but no desires. First world problems, I know, but curious if anyone else is in the same boat.
Hey Jason Don’t know if you have seen two stroke stuffing’s videos on his two stroke engines. Would be great if you explained what gives his engines so much potential. Cheers
It looks to me like that prechamber can be mostly cleaned by removing the sparkplug and using something resembling a chamber cleaning brush for a rifle. That would not clean the ports, but I don't think those will be very likely to clog, though they might erode from the speed and pressure of the gas flowing through them.
As to your curiosity of how much leftover gas gets re-compressed in the prechamber on thw next cycle: The % of re-compressed gas will be (volume of prechamber) / (Total Cylinder volume) + (some inefficiencies from the gases not being perfectly mixed at all times) which I assume would be pretty small.
I would imagine if periodic cleaning was required they could put a cleaning fluid/tool through the prechamber plug and evacuate the cylinder fairly effectively through the main chamber plug at specified service intervals. If it was near tdc on the intake stroke at the time you could easily get very high airflow rates through the main chamber plug hole to flush and remove any debris.
Super cool dude! I'm just a simple mercedes certified hybrid mechanic but these top end tech road car videos always impress! Thanks for the insight into other brands emissions tech...lol cause thats all it is at this point! Even as a potential higher end "shade tree" with no shade mechanic its good to know how little I can really do... ask HumbleM! Can't wait to start my own lowryder shop!
I love your viedos so much! The first thought after the explanation of the principle, was how the pre-chamber will be cleared. Thanks for the last point on the board.
I feel like we haven't even scratched the surface of how efficient gas engines can be. Just think of all of the engineering advances we've witnessed in the past three years with engine technology.
I've been meaning to thank you for sometime. So, Thank You for your terrific videos! For those of us who admire [but don't fully understand] engineering, your presentations are easy to understand, and very entertaining! And by the way, I just bought one of your tee-shirts! Wishing you continued success as you carry on with this endeavour. Kindly, Graham Steen.
@@JakubW Having tow spark plugs and having pre-chamber with additional spark plug are two, different things. And I think there were engine with even more spark plugs.
As usual, you are the only one who is able to explain the things correctly! Too much confusion and wrong explanations about pre-chamber from car magazines, youtube and so on. Great video for a great engine!
Port injection also cleans the backside of intake valves which DI alone can leave them caked with giant gobs of carbon requiring regular cleanings. - edit - The reason I commented this is because I was waiting for EE to list this as one of the benefits of port injection, but he never said anything about it which I thought strange given his usually thorough explanations.
@@ejv0wjc08gtsnoj0 Agreed, how do you judge maintenance interval? I have an OBD2 reader which measures the amount of time the car has been driven at each engine RPM. Every time the car is turned off, I enter those as inputs into a function I've derived, and once the output of that function hits a number that I've pre-specified (which is based on the minimum time the relevant components would be expected to fail if constantly driving at 80% engine load (which in turn is based on a variety of materials and structural analyses, among other things)), I perform the maintenance. It's so much more intuitive lol I don't know why more people don't do it.
cb350f actually with Maseratis, its a once a year oil service interval. Don’t know what the Netuno uses but the V6 in the Ghibli uses a 7-9gt oil pan, and they use 5w-40 synthetic oil (less coking that way especially in turbo’ed engines.) If you figure the average use of any car is about 12-15k per year, is one of the longest service intervals I’ve heard of, next to the Chevy Volt which has to tell you when to change the oil by remaining service life. After 6 years of ownership, still haven’t replaced the spark plugs (mainly cuz the engine is hardly ever used), no 30,000 mi plug change. As far as time change automotive items goes seems is a better interval, plus Maserati has GT and Indy car test results. Average drivers are easier on Indy cars. And would rather service my car before it breaks, than trying to find a ride home.
I'm no brilliant chemist, but the spray pattern of direct injector is throwing fresh fuel directly at pre chamber (I imagine you could work this out with flow bench to some degree and then multiply piston compression subtract polar bear faeces / mince pies)
The lil graph at the bottom is pulled from the patent (and the torque curve actually lines up perfectly with Maserati's stated torque curve). On the patent, they show timing around -30 to -15 degrees (bTDC).
@@EngineeringExplained Seems actually relatively mild. -30 for cruising and -15 for full load i assume. The -15 on full load is relatively spicy, but hey new efficient engines and all that.
@@MitchRichard65 It's not super crazy, but it is quite good. Until we see this engine in the wild, we can't make assumptions. We don't know the boost, expected charge temps, etc. And also ... modern engine management always targets spicy timing, but most of the time, in the real world, also pulls a lot of timing all the time, so ...
3-way catalysts as found in road cars actually need a mixture that oscillates on either side of the stoich ratio to work properly. Current engine control systems are capable of maintaining a near perfect stoich mixture most of the time, but that would reduce catalyst effectiveness.
The pre-chamber not clearing out would essentially work like an EGR. The combustion products remaining in the prechamber that didn't exit with the jet would mix with the new air-fuel mixture being compressed in. This would reduce the O2 in the prechamber and probably reduce the NOX generated.
My thought is to make the prechamber bolt in, either as part of the spark plug or a separate piece. It would make it easier to service and replace, and prechamber cleaning could be made part of the maintenance schedule. Of course, Maserati, so more likely to be cast into the head and require head service every 20k miles to clean.
Agreed, unless they include some sort of blow-through venting/valving, this is going to foul up for sure. You really can't force fuel/air into a closed-end tube, and you also can't properly evacuate a closed-end tube. This concept is missing some technology to make it work as conceived.
Great explanation Jason! I had one question. At low load, any RPM, wouldn't it be feasible to fire the pre-chamber spark plug first and then after a short delay, the main chamber spark plug? The active pre chamber shoots flames and evenly spreads the combustion into the main chamber. So wouldn't it be somewhat the same case in Maserati's engine?
If history is anything to go by then they will be maintenance intensive and expensive to keep in trim. But hey, it's a Maserati! Anyone buying one of these already know they have to keep a good mechanic on speed dial. It's much the same with any of the classic high end European super car manufacturers. Their engines are often technical marvels of precision and aesthetically pleasing design, but also need to be serviced regularly to run as they are supposed to.
Scientist Walter I was thinking the same thing, but with an orifice size of 1.8mm ... how effective are you gonna be at clearing out the carbon deposits?
For the 2 plugs in the cylinder - I would be curious to know what percentage of the time MISFIRES occur. Also, for a given throttle position, I would be curious to know how wide its CYCLIC VARIATIONS are. Lastly, in the main chamber, I would be curious to know what the FLAME SPEED is.
Ironic that diesels ditched the pre-combustion chamber for greater efficiency, but petrol goes the other way. I'm assuming that by igniting in the pre-combustion chamber you will initially have a very short flame travel (which is good to avoid detonation), but by the time it squirts into the main chamber you effectively have ignition being started at multiple points which will again effectively give a shorter flame travel than otherwise. So the question is - why only 11.0:1 CR?
Yep just did catch can on mazda cx-5. Nice and difficult to get to and they use 5/8 on pcv and and 3/8 on intake i believe, so had to use reducer, fun stuff hope it stays sealed and doesnt clog. After 45,000 valves nice and crusty. Bought one off amazon and re-engineered it to work better. Just checked it today and was almost half full After bout 2000 miles.Trying to clean with seafoam or anything else with flushing method will get you a nice expensive brand new caty. Ask me how i know.Gotta clean with brush or walnuts not fun either way but to each his own. Thank those brilliant minds so much for the pcv system. Makes life so much fun... so much. I was thinking the same thing about the little chamber. Hopefully they make it removeable at least for cleaning. Ha ha more sarcasm. Also can see carbon on those piston heads already building up as you spoke. Hopefully they leave room for many catch cans and hydrogen generator. Nobody knows the trouble we go through, nobody knows the sorry except us mechanmaniacs😊
One thing I couldn't understand was how the pre-chamber ever gets its fresh fuel/air mix in, as all I can see is the persistence of spent fuel/air/CO2 inside the chamber once the spark has occured!.... Then you finish by saying exactly the same thing!!!
Hmm so maybe that's intentional? I agree that in the exhaust stroke there will be burnt air/fuel mix inside the pre chamber. However, during the intake phase, these should all be sucked out into the main chamber and get mixed with the fresh air/fuel mixture. And because the relative volume of the pre chamber is so small, the amount of burnt air/fuel mixture should not be too much to cause a problem.
@@ImaadAnsari Absolutely. I can't imagine the ratio of the precombustion chamber to total cyclinder volume being high enough to have to worry about refreshing the gases beyond what expansion and compression already do.
Maybe it's Maserati's secret. Of how, when and how much by doing whatever. So that the germans don't copy Italian tech... again, and again and again etc. At least not so easily.
Jason, the main goal is to reduce pumping losses and spark advance losses. In classic engine the spark is produced very early before TDC, thus the piston has to overcome the increasing pressure. With pre-chamber you still get your peak pressure in the most favorable mechanical moment - 13-18 degrees ATDC, but avoid the losses.
@@Eduardo_Espinoza For what I understand, it causes the exhaust temperature to not get high enough. The cat need an especific temp to work properly, too low it clogs up, too hot it brittles.
Using the right materials with a passive design is better than active combustion, in general. Reliable, robust, outweigh upfront cost (which is way overblown so they don't have to do the work). Commercial turbine engines don't need a catalytic converter and end up beating ground vehicle emissions because they use lean mixtures with small droplet sizes, which means high droplet boundary temperatures (where the ratio is near stoichiometric) are less common and produce less NOx, which is an endothermic reaction.
It almost looks like a little piston switch. I'm halfway thru the video but that's a cool setup they got! I'm in love with the Maserati mc20 already anyway!
Seriously. ANYONE who has been around and seen what a normal Maserati looks and runs like after a couple years would know better than buy this. The engineering might be great but the electronics and transmission and quality of construction are going to kill any good engineering. Back in the 70's they were considered poorly built wrecks but still cool. What does the name "Maserati" really bring to the mind of a new buyer who is below the age of say 40?
@@flyingvengeance when I lived up north, I barely saw them and thought they were... meh. One of my co-workers had a Quttroporte(?) which he loved but didn't do much for me. Now that I'm in the sunny South, I see them everywhere... like tons of them. To me they represent a level of exclusivity a bit beyond BMW/Mercedes/Audi. Their styling is very sports-influenced, which is nice. From a reliability perspective I have no idea, but reliability has gotten so great lately it really doesn't matter that much unless it's something major. But what do I know... I have an MC20 on my mind while I'm solidly a Tesla guy now and will probably (realistically) getting another Tesla. The way they drive on the street is just perfect, but on the track I obviously prefer ICE ;)
Great analysis & presentation Jason. Seeing as the power & efficiency of the TJI tech is limited by roadcar emission here do you have information as to what the true maximum capability for fully realised lean AFR;s from F1 type 'active pre-chamber' TJI is in term of power/efficiency gains when compared to a traditional engine of equivalent size/config?
You can simulate soot/carbon deposition on the surfaces of the pre-chamber. It will take a while to set up the simulation and then it will take QUITE a while to run said simulation (and to make sure that the simulation itself is stable and converges), but other than that, you can actually get at least an analytical answer to your curiosity/question. (There are also ways to accelerate the soot/deposition models once you know what the fluxes are as well.)
Well, the question is usually: are the simulation results accurate? Once you introduce some pretty complex flows and combustion into the mix as in a combustion chamber, I would guess the answer is no.
@@Finnspin_unicycles That's what the calibration, correlation, and verification tests are for. You'd be surprised at how accurate the simulations are. (How do you think Maserati came up with this in the first place prior to cutting steel?)
@@ewenchan1239 I know how accurate (and inaccurate) CFD and combustion simulations can be. But those are very well developed and have decades of research and comparison with the real world behind them. Soot deposition in quite complicated flow situations? Not exactly an established field where reliable results can be expected.
@@Finnspin_unicycles "Soot deposition in quite complicated flow situations? Not exactly an established field where reliable results can be expected." Search for SAE/JSAE papers on this topic and you'll find what you're looking for. (They've been doing soot deposition in vastly more complicated flow situations than this. This is "peanuts", in terms of complexity, relatively speaking.) Again, read the SAE papers/publications and you'll find what you're looking for.
You questioned the same thing I did. The pre chamber build up. Now the 6.9 IDI and 7.3 IDI diesel engines used one. I never heard of build up problems only damage due to starting fluid.
Probably they will be less efficient, because there is no need for making an engine efficient if they dont have to comply with emissions, just throw a bigger engine or put a turbo instead of making it more efficient. Any way, the efficiency will be arround 50 % look at the Mercedes F1 engine, is the most efficient car engine and formula 1 cars don’t have to comply with emission. The incentive for making an engine more efficient is better use of se gasoline more than just making pure power.
Matias B he was talking about FUEL efficiency...the mercedes engine you mentioned has 50% THERMAL efficiency...in order to create more power, but still comply with the rules that F1 proposes...two different things my friend
Rick well my friend, in that manner you right. But in order to make a car more fuel efficient it has to improve its thermal efficiency, so it can extract more power/energy out of the gasoline. The emissions sistems makes a car less efficient because they produce loses in the combustion cycle, so the engine extract Less energy from the same amount of fuel, for example rich mixtures for reducing temps lean mixes for reducing CO2 or dumping crude fuel in particulate filters. Any way, I was think in an other thing when I read Loomies question, but referring at what he really asked, the answer is 10 to 20% I have friends that ripped out the emission systems and thats what they gained.
Made a lot of money de-carbonizing pre-chambers & valves on Honda car engines back in the day... Pre-chamber de-carbonizing and a distributor overhaul (including point & condenser) made them run like near new... depending on the mileage.
Thanks for this beautiful describe. I got a question, what is the point of pre chamber while you get the same rich air/fuel mixture in the ignition chamber also in pre chamber? Was it only for speed?
I saw a TV program back in the 90's where they were plotting what needs to happen to get the engines to be more efficient and clean. The original material was from the 1970's oil crisis times when the anti-smog equipment was introduced. They correctly predicted how complex the engines and transmissions need to be. I remember thinking would it be funny to create everything using vacuum tubes or transistors to show how complicated everything will get. Now would be the time. Then, a "simple" electric motor with one moving part will now replace the whole thing.
I was wondering about that pre-chamber clogging with carbon or something too but then remembered it’s a Maserati. It will just be part of the “normal” service interval if people actually put a lot of miles on or just another expensive repair that Maserati owners are allegedly used to. Personally I think they make some gorgeous cars. That doesn’t always transfer into usable cars. Sadly the internet has its share of complaints about their reliability. You forgot to mention that the intake valves on many direct injection engines tend to carbon up from the oil vapor originating from the PCV. The port fuel injection also helps wash the valve with fuel and reduce the problem.
This prechamber concept was done in San Diego in 1992 and tested at SDSU. The issue was temperature of brass prechamber. Because of a hot pre-chamber NOX was not as good as it could have been. Also pre-ignition once hot enough. looks like cooling fluid channels is enough to solve by removing enough heat. pre-chamber surface area to volume vs fuel burned inside prechamber drive prechamber temps. cool stuff. Pre-chamber volume robs main chamber of compression if energy-pressure of fuel and air inside pre-chamber is not fully transferred to main chamber. Hot pre-chamber hints of that being an efficiency hit. So where the power gain? In the delayed power profile. It takes time for the pressure to get up the spark plug. This helps reduce pre-ignition. propagate This takes time. accelerated
This time allows the crank to turn a few more degrees without high pressure from main combustion flame. Since it is delayed and just starting to propagate across chamber after existing orifice, even with accelerated burn rates, the pressure profile is delayed at first, then catches up later. this produces more power because any pressure made early does not make much power until the crank has turned the "corner". Or for math folks sin of 6 degrees or less, rounds down to zero.
Shooting flames into your combustion chamber = efficient
Shooting flames out of your tailpipes = not efficient
Yeah but flames 🔥 out the pipe looks 👀 cool.
@@WarriorsPhoto yes if you have a disorder
Debaditya Saha Disorders are good. (:
@@debadityasaha1684 No disorder required. It looks cool.
@@WarriorsPhoto they look cool when done on purpose. When they come out of my 70s car while carb tuning, not so much.
This a beautiful demonstration of the latest advancements in how mankind can control fire lol
Only took us about 300.000 years to get to this point.
Small fires. Very small, frequent fires. Nothing like California
*Insert caveman spongebob*
Fire-benders and the chambers of secrets
Same with guns haha
i guess i know what ferrari's engineers were working on instead of sf1000
Darchan Darchan spark plugs must wear off pretty quick
I mean, how can a team drop so far down the grid in a single year without even a major regulation change? It’s baffling to say the least.
It’s been tough being a Ferrari fan 🤦♂️
Makes sense rightfully and I bet they’ll be using this.
@@24bit-176khearts They where cheating before... Well bending the rules might be more accurate. FIA clarified to Ferrari what the rules where and Ferrari lost 40+hp.
They built a high downforce car because they had good power to compensate for the drag, then they lost power and the high downforce setup was not optimized for that. FIA also blocked further large changes due to Covid, stifling any major fixes.
I think Jeremy Clarkson once said that when Ferrari are doing good in F1 their road cars suck and when they suck in F1 their road cars are good and they seem to have been busy updating their lineup.
Hello Jason, have you ever thought of doing a series on F1 engine tech? I've always wondered what are the details on what makes F1 engines special. Great video!
short stroke engines
Skip that. I want to know about MotoGP motorcycle engines that are getting north of 350hp/liter on normally aspirated light weight engines. Yes, pneumatic valves play a role but that is a crazy power to displacement ratio.
There is a bloke on TH-cam who did a tear down of an F1 intercooler he bought. It was really interesting.
@@Outland9000 PeterBjorck
@@Miata822 They are a bit smaller, races are shorter, the tolerances can be ridiculously tight and possibly the stroke can be a bit longer compared to an F1 engine. I would imagine its just a factor of reliability vs efficiency. Im sure one or the other can get 500hp/l for about 10 minutes.
I'm glad you referenced the Honda CVCC technology. My 1978 Civic was so efficient due to the cylinder head design, it could get real world mileage near 40 mpg, and the emissions were so low, the car didn't need a catalytic converter. Literally the last cars sold in the US that still could burn leaded gas. And they achieved that efficient combustion even with an analog carburetor. Kudos to Maserati for pushing the efficiency of internal combustion engine design.
What kinda horsepower? I hit 47-49 mpg in a 2 liter turbo diesel motor in a car that weighs 3400+ pounds lol. I feel like you might have had 40 mpg but not very much power to play with
@@DarkAttack14 This is why you have (need) turbocharging. TJI as an NA engine limits BMEP, but it allows much greater BMEP with turbocharging w/o detonation. So - higher Cr +boost = smaller displacement better power/weight and greatly improved efficiency AND power. BUT, this is limited by high oxygen catalysts disfunction for emissions certification.
@@billl7551 diesels don't detonate though lmfao. Pretty much impossible unless you were to inject right into the intake or something
@@DarkAttack14 Sorry for an unclear post - -but happy it was amusing 🙂 I was referring to limitations of spark ignited engines. Diesels can and actually do detonate, but it is controlled(eliminated) by injection rate limiting so the burn rate is controlled by injection rate. The idle clatter of old was due to rapid injection of all the (idle) fuel and sudden heat release of the entire charge. Now, there is a pre-injection, (called pilot) that becomes the fireball for the main charge. Detonation will produce rapid rate of rise in combustion pressures and eat piston crowns. Not widely know by the public.
@@billl7551 diesels do not detonate unless in seriously bad condition. detonation refers to ignition before intended which can't happen in a motor that doesn't inject until intended lol now if you're running an old style Bosch VE pump and your timing is way off yeah you could detonate.. Or in a common rail motor if you have oil introduced to the intake from a blown turbo! Even in an old diesel motor with one single injection event it doesn't qualify as detonation
Amazing. I've learnt more from this channel about engines than my graduation in college.
It's like doing engineering after becoming engineer.
Nothing to learn at graduation other than enjoy the day and receive your diploma, take pics, and maybe lunch
If an engineer doesn't know what he got engineering in then there is a 99% chance that he graduated from India
What was your engineering degree in?
That's always the way with anything you study. When you finish your studies, that's when you learning begins, not ends.
Intro killed me.
Didn't notice the sarcasm til I heard playdough 😂
Moron.
No need to worry about longevity, most Italian cars get driven about 500 miles a year. Great video once again
The twin spark plugs and their timing is fascinating. The prechamber with its fixed orifice sizes may have an ideal precombustion pressure differential to the main chamber for best efficiency. Lighting the main chamber plug first would build some preliminary pressure to "stuff" more air and fuel up the prechamber. In theory at least, that could bring the prechamber pressure up around what it would be under higher loads, in essence increasing the precombustion discharge velocity back into the main chamber again. Like a high tech hiccup haha.
Pre-chamber exhaust gas clearing was my first concern when I saw this: there must be some shock wave effect that scoops exhaust gases out before the next cycle, because as the piston goes up that air does not seem to be expelled through the exhaust valves. I suppose dirt accumulation may be solved with a simple cleaning mechanism during periodic maintenance when the spark plugs are replaced - huge advantage of having a small and simple pre-chamber, around the same diameter as the spark plug!
Easy to clean during service was my thought. All it would need is pull the plug, a squirt of solvent/fuel and a (maybe brass) wire brush shaped to suit the chamber in a power drill (or similar). Owners of these sorts of cars are going to get them serviced regularly and are unlikely to do huge distances so it's no big deal.
@@Shaun.Stephens they will also rev the arse off the engine which will help. If you were just town driving I think it'd have a problem, although it still has the second plug so it should still run until you can open up the taps.
Putting on my Engineers hat, I would say that some detailed Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) would have been carried out to analyse this very issue. Also, remember that the fluid being forced into the pre-chamber is an air/gasoline mixture. All gasoline fuels contain some detergent additives/effectiveness in order to clean soot. Combined with the fact that the velocity of the expanding gas jet from the pre-chamber will be relativity high, thereby aiding in the cleaning of any soot. However, as the pre-chamber is so small 10-> 15ml and the jet paths are quite narrow, I would hazard a guess that there may be some long term issues.
@@anthonycanalese2142 , that Is exactly what happens, but if you think about It , wall wetting Is what produces soot.
So there should be the problem of soot depositing on the prechamber nozzles.
But since you are burning everything with the flames you dont suffer of soot nucleation around the prechamber.
The main problem here Is temperature an pressure at Turing.
so probably in future we Will see diesel like pistons(stainless steel).
@@robertolucignano3495 With a super lean burn will there be much/any soot?
This guy is so smart that his white board writes the explanations itself out of pure respect.
Much love, your friends at Rev Media!!
And he explains so logically that even non engenireers understands
Oh, how great this technology would be in NA V12. And oh my, I'd like this combined with Koenigsegg valve system.
Btw, great video, thank you!
About a year ago patent drawings of a Ferrari V12 appeared on internet. It also had pre-chamber and an additional conventional spark plug. I guess Maserati were granted the premiere...
I agree
@@WilfredVeltman Or there will be a Maserati using that engine as well, just like with enzo and mc12
It'll be combined with "MultiAir" - which is Fiats established take on a camless engine.
MultiAir is a hydraulic system, while the Freevalve from Koenigsegg is pneumatic, if I recall correctly.
@@alfisti93 Multiair still needs a camshaft.
Yamaha also had a couple forms of pre-chamber tech in the 80's with 'YICS' and 'YEIS'
Good to read and was it reliable?
I have a 86 maxima 500 engine Im trying to get started. How much do you know bout them?
Sorry I have a mind of my own.
@@dakotavaughan6488 For a DIYer im fairly proficient with old carbed bikes. Most of these old bikes just have carb issues, once you rectify those issues they run pretty well. Check easy stuff first like spark to all cylinders, make sure fuel is getting to carbs, and every possible carb setting is set to factory default (with the hope that the bike jetting and airbox is stock) etc before you tear the carbs apart via a YT vid or shop manual
@@dakotavaughan6488 keep that stock airbox if you wanna ride it
The real reason the main chamber spark plug exists is at low loads, the piston cannot "compress" the mixture into the prechamber. A piston is actually getting sucked upwards at part throttle, and then at TDC the mixture may only reach atmospheric pressures. The engine simply wouldn't run smoothly or at all at part throttle.
I loved the sarcastic intro!
I also learned something, so there's that.
Keep up the excellent work, Jason!
F*** that s*** home well you need to be president.
My biggest concern is also cleanliness of the pre-chamber. It will be interesting to see if the difference in pressure, especially given the volumetric difference, will be enough to keep those tiny little ports clean.
It's already happening, The ICEngines have become nostalgic so now as one would appreciate a fine watch we now appreciate the complexity and beauty of the Internal Combustion Engine with different eyes. I hope we keep innovating ICE.
This reminds me of pulse jet technology were essentially its like a rocket engine.
What if the heads had this pre chamber ignition system and was nearly the same diameter of the piston and had small holes and above that existed the valves and the spark plug and the injectors. So essentiaply the piston will get the most out of this. Because a rocket engines injector system does this the same way learned this from Scott Manly who explains in vivid detail how rocket engines work. This is genius. There is more pressure then there would be if it was one giant explosion. The raptor engines use this and so do the engines on most if not all space craft. If we use this in cars it could help so much more with fuel consumption.
Love your content stuff. Thank you for all the work you put into explaining this to us.
It's amazing how much power we are getting from smaller and smaller displacement.
Its also amazing how expensive these vehicles are getting every year
@ufster81 actually it does have to do with displacement and transmissions. Torque needs moving parts. Big moving parts.
thereissomecoolstuff gives new meaning to term " there's no replacement for displacement."
I believe this MC20 has the highest HP/L out of any non-hybrid production car ever!
@@thomasmullins1783 and ironically, this car starting at $200k is actually considered a relative bargain among the European exotics. I'd love to buy something nice, but the prices have ballooned. Grr!! The logical choice is the C8 Corvette, but dammit... I want that je ne sais quoi. I've yet to find a car at any price which brings back the passion I used to have when I was younger... the irony.... when I had no money I had a million wants and desires... now I have money but no desires. First world problems, I know, but curious if anyone else is in the same boat.
Hey Jason
Don’t know if you have seen two stroke stuffing’s videos on his two stroke engines. Would be great if you explained what gives his engines so much potential. Cheers
Can you give a link? Would love to see it😊
It looks to me like that prechamber can be mostly cleaned by removing the sparkplug and using something resembling a chamber cleaning brush for a rifle. That would not clean the ports, but I don't think those will be very likely to clog, though they might erode from the speed and pressure of the gas flowing through them.
Jason, I am glad someone else understands these facts and presents them in simple terms.
This makes sense and I felt empowered listening to you.
I got caught up with my college work, so I get to watch this video. I was saving it as a reward.
plot twist: you learned more from this video than your college work
@@UltimatePwnageNL
Lol
As to your curiosity of how much leftover gas gets re-compressed in the prechamber on thw next cycle: The % of re-compressed gas will be (volume of prechamber) / (Total Cylinder volume) + (some inefficiencies from the gases not being perfectly mixed at all times) which I assume would be pretty small.
Thank you. You answered all my questions about engines using precombustion chambers in one video! Pretty good!
I'd think cleaning of the prechamber would be part of the routine maintenance, spraying in a cleaner to break down carbon deposits at every service
I would imagine if periodic cleaning was required they could put a cleaning fluid/tool through the prechamber plug and evacuate the cylinder fairly effectively through the main chamber plug at specified service intervals.
If it was near tdc on the intake stroke at the time you could easily get very high airflow rates through the main chamber plug hole to flush and remove any debris.
Fascinating technology, straight out of the diesel handbook - lol -.
------ ___ diesel's can be ac/dc ....both 2 stroke or conventional w/same fuel
Yea this made me think of IDI diesels
@Altair IV 60's? Try 30's. Caterpillar was using this tech before ww2.
that is what i was thinking too they have a pre-chamber too
@@octane613 The worlds first diesel engine, built by Akroyd-Stuart in the 1890's, used similar.
Super cool dude! I'm just a simple mercedes certified hybrid mechanic but these top end tech road car videos always impress! Thanks for the insight into other brands emissions tech...lol cause thats all it is at this point! Even as a potential higher end "shade tree" with no shade mechanic its good to know how little I can really do... ask HumbleM! Can't wait to start my own lowryder shop!
"A car that was developed in the heavens, using emergency blanket technology" Hahaha
You are one very smart engineer that is still so very gifted in breaking it down in easily understood terms.Thank you.
I love your viedos so much! The first thought after the explanation of the principle, was how the pre-chamber will be cleared. Thanks for the last point on the board.
I feel like we haven't even scratched the surface of how efficient gas engines can be. Just think of all of the engineering advances we've witnessed in the past three years with engine technology.
Cars have advanced more since 1990 than they did in the 100 or so years prior.
With F1, they had achieved well over 50% with hybrid configuration. They scrape every single waste kinetic and heat energy as much as possible.
I've been meaning to thank you for sometime. So, Thank You for your terrific videos! For those of us who admire [but don't fully understand] engineering, your presentations are easy to understand, and very entertaining! And by the way, I just bought one of your tee-shirts! Wishing you continued success as you carry on with this endeavour. Kindly, Graham Steen.
Maserati: Yeah we needed two spark plugs
Alfa Romeo: Anytime my guy :D
Nicholas Briozzo someone explains lol
@@yiwanye1221 I think he refers to Alfa's 'Twinspark' technology. They also used two spark plugs per cylinder, although it wasn't as advanced as this.
@@JakubW Having tow spark plugs and having pre-chamber with additional spark plug are two, different things. And I think there were engine with even more spark plugs.
@@Stasiek_Zabojca I know that, but I don't think Alfa ever made an engine with prechamber. Or did they?
Mercedes: "Oh, that old technology from the 90's"
As usual, you are the only one who is able to explain the things correctly! Too much confusion and wrong explanations about pre-chamber from car magazines, youtube and so on. Great video for a great engine!
Port injection also cleans the backside of intake valves which DI alone can leave them caked with giant gobs of carbon requiring regular cleanings.
- edit -
The reason I commented this is because I was waiting for EE to list this
as one of the benefits of port injection, but he never said anything
about it which I thought strange given his usually thorough explanations.
cleaning is only needed every 100k or so, but an oil catch can can solve that
They can get caked with gunk long before 100k on many DI cars.
lol anyone who judges maintenance interval by distance driven doesn't know much about cars.
@@ejv0wjc08gtsnoj0 Agreed, how do you judge maintenance interval? I have an OBD2 reader which measures the amount of time the car has been driven at each engine RPM. Every time the car is turned off, I enter those as inputs into a function I've derived, and once the output of that function hits a number that I've pre-specified (which is based on the minimum time the relevant components would be expected to fail if constantly driving at 80% engine load (which in turn is based on a variety of materials and structural analyses, among other things)), I perform the maintenance. It's so much more intuitive lol I don't know why more people don't do it.
cb350f actually with Maseratis, its a once a year oil service interval. Don’t know what the Netuno uses but the V6 in the Ghibli uses a 7-9gt oil pan, and they use 5w-40 synthetic oil (less coking that way especially in turbo’ed engines.)
If you figure the average use of any car is about 12-15k per year, is one of the longest service intervals I’ve heard of, next to the Chevy Volt which has to tell you when to change the oil by remaining service life. After 6 years of ownership, still haven’t replaced the spark plugs (mainly cuz the engine is hardly ever used), no 30,000 mi plug change.
As far as time change automotive items goes seems is a better interval, plus Maserati has GT and Indy car test results. Average drivers are easier on Indy cars.
And would rather service my car before it breaks, than trying to find a ride home.
Very nice video. I share your concern about not only the complexity, but the durability over time WRT the combustion chamber.
I'm no brilliant chemist, but the spray pattern of direct injector is throwing fresh fuel directly at pre chamber (I imagine you could work this out with flow bench to some degree and then multiply piston compression subtract polar bear faeces / mince pies)
I feel like this is the weather man who chose the right career. I love this channel
This sounds like another brilliant Idea to reduce the reliability of a Maserati further.
😂😂😂😂
I agree. After 5000 miles the engine will need a service costing a ridiculous amount of money.
Apparently BMW is going this direction too with next gen B58..
@@rnrnrkrk994It's coming to the F150 too.
EV guy here, thanks for the shout out. Great engineering video!!
I bet the spark timing on those things are wayyy advanced relative to TDC
The lil graph at the bottom is pulled from the patent (and the torque curve actually lines up perfectly with Maserati's stated torque curve). On the patent, they show timing around -30 to -15 degrees (bTDC).
@@EngineeringExplained Seems actually relatively mild. -30 for cruising and -15 for full load i assume. The -15 on full load is relatively spicy, but hey new efficient engines and all that.
@@detaart -15 on a 11:1 turbo with street gas... thats amazing
@@MitchRichard65 It's not super crazy, but it is quite good. Until we see this engine in the wild, we can't make assumptions. We don't know the boost, expected charge temps, etc. And also ... modern engine management always targets spicy timing, but most of the time, in the real world, also pulls a lot of timing all the time, so ...
Are you saying -30 as in 30 degrees ATDC? 😲
Always look forward to learning from your videos !
Would love to see you do more F1 videos on their engineering and overall tech.
How do they avoid knock with two combustion points?
Thank you for teaching me something new. I appreciate the effort you’ve taken to outline this.👍🏼
3-way catalysts as found in road cars actually need a mixture that oscillates on either side of the stoich ratio to work properly. Current engine control systems are capable of maintaining a near perfect stoich mixture most of the time, but that would reduce catalyst effectiveness.
Thank you for explaining all this. Power, efficiency and low emissions. Looks and sounds great!
"I guess I ran out of facts..." on the white board! LMAO.
I saw that too. I don't believe it.
I think he ran out of white board.....
@@aircates Nah, he wrote his facts too small and then had an empty space he needed to fill.
The pre-chamber not clearing out would essentially work like an EGR. The combustion products remaining in the prechamber that didn't exit with the jet would mix with the new air-fuel mixture being compressed in. This would reduce the O2 in the prechamber and probably reduce the NOX generated.
A Honda CVCC for the new century
Maserati 3.0L = 630 hp
Nissan 3.7L = 320 hp
lmao at asian engineering
@@ivangamer8022 you know what is a turbo engine and what is a natural aspirated engine... Well I guess not...
A fitting profile picture for a guy that can't use google.
I was thinking Honda CVCC+Nissan NAPS-Z (dual spark plugs per cylinder).
My thought is to make the prechamber bolt in, either as part of the spark plug or a separate piece. It would make it easier to service and replace, and prechamber cleaning could be made part of the maintenance schedule. Of course, Maserati, so more likely to be cast into the head and require head service every 20k miles to clean.
Having the combustion travel through approx 1mm holes seems like it would foul up without regular cleaning of the orifices during maintenance.
There is probably enough compression and then enough force with combustion to keep the prechamber clean.
Agreed, unless they include some sort of blow-through venting/valving, this is going to foul up for sure. You really can't force fuel/air into a closed-end tube, and you also can't properly evacuate a closed-end tube. This concept is missing some technology to make it work as conceived.
Great explanation Jason!
I had one question.
At low load, any RPM, wouldn't it be feasible to fire the pre-chamber spark plug first and then after a short delay, the main chamber spark plug?
The active pre chamber shoots flames and evenly spreads the combustion into the main chamber. So wouldn't it be somewhat the same case in Maserati's engine?
I wonder how the carbon deposits buildup will affect this new system 🤔
yeah. It also sounds wayy too complicated and easy to fail
If history is anything to go by then they will be maintenance intensive and expensive to keep in trim. But hey, it's a Maserati! Anyone buying one of these already know they have to keep a good mechanic on speed dial. It's much the same with any of the classic high end European super car manufacturers. Their engines are often technical marvels of precision and aesthetically pleasing design, but also need to be serviced regularly to run as they are supposed to.
Just take the plug out and clean it.
Scientist Walter I was thinking the same thing, but with an orifice size of 1.8mm ... how effective are you gonna be at clearing out the carbon deposits?
My boy Jason keeping me on my toes with the new technologies. I appreciate your videos bro.
1 question: after a while, carbon builds up in pre-ignitiom chamber. How to clean the chamber?
Buy a new car
For the 2 plugs in the cylinder - I would be curious to know what percentage of the time MISFIRES occur.
Also, for a given throttle position, I would be curious to know how wide its CYCLIC VARIATIONS are.
Lastly, in the main chamber, I would be curious to know what the FLAME SPEED is.
now these days litreally so many small engines are being used in very fast f1 cars with awesome tech
Maserati 3.0L = 630 hp
Nissan 3.7L = 320 hp
lmao at asian engineering
@@ivangamer8022 Stop spamming this.
Ironic that diesels ditched the pre-combustion chamber for greater efficiency, but petrol goes the other way. I'm assuming that by igniting in the pre-combustion chamber you will initially have a very short flame travel (which is good to avoid detonation), but by the time it squirts into the main chamber you effectively have ignition being started at multiple points which will again effectively give a shorter flame travel than otherwise. So the question is - why only 11.0:1 CR?
Regarding carbon in the pre chamber, they might be getting hot enough to burn off carbon deposits.
Yep just did catch can on mazda cx-5. Nice and difficult to get to and they use 5/8 on pcv and and 3/8 on intake i believe, so had to use reducer, fun stuff hope it stays sealed and doesnt clog. After 45,000 valves nice and crusty. Bought one off amazon and re-engineered it to work better. Just checked it today and was almost half full After bout 2000 miles.Trying to clean with seafoam or anything else with flushing method will get you a nice expensive brand new caty. Ask me how i know.Gotta clean with brush or walnuts not fun either way but to each his own. Thank those brilliant minds so much for the pcv system. Makes life so much fun... so much. I was thinking the same thing about the little chamber. Hopefully they make it removeable at least for cleaning. Ha ha more sarcasm. Also can see carbon on those piston heads already building up as you spoke. Hopefully they leave room for many catch cans and hydrogen generator. Nobody knows the trouble we go through, nobody knows the sorry except us mechanmaniacs😊
One thing I couldn't understand was how the pre-chamber ever gets its fresh fuel/air mix in, as all I can see is the persistence of spent fuel/air/CO2 inside the chamber once the spark has occured!....
Then you finish by saying exactly the same thing!!!
Hmm so maybe that's intentional? I agree that in the exhaust stroke there will be burnt air/fuel mix inside the pre chamber. However, during the intake phase, these should all be sucked out into the main chamber and get mixed with the fresh air/fuel mixture. And because the relative volume of the pre chamber is so small, the amount of burnt air/fuel mixture should not be too much to cause a problem.
@@ImaadAnsari Absolutely. I can't imagine the ratio of the precombustion chamber to total cyclinder volume being high enough to have to worry about refreshing the gases beyond what expansion and compression already do.
Yeah i too have same questions.
@@SvdSinner he says it's 0.3%
Maybe it's Maserati's secret. Of how, when and how much by doing whatever. So that the germans don't copy Italian tech... again, and again and again etc. At least not so easily.
Jason, the main goal is to reduce pumping losses and spark advance losses. In classic engine the spark is produced very early before TDC, thus the piston has to overcome the increasing pressure. With pre-chamber you still get your peak pressure in the most favorable mechanical moment - 13-18 degrees ATDC, but avoid the losses.
Hope Mazda sees this for the Rotary.
Give it up, rotary is dead.
@@CaseAgainstFaith1 never
Lmao dream on kiddo
CaseAgainstFaith1 maybe but we’ll never give uo
Mazdarati
Could have made way more up if wanted to my stock internal k20 is making 420 and to the wheels and this Maserati engine has way better rods and walls
Seems like active is overall better and just needs a re-designed cat.
why was it bad for cat again? i just heard it was bad
nvm i just googled why lean is bad
@@Eduardo_Espinoza For what I understand, it causes the exhaust temperature to not get high enough. The cat need an especific temp to work properly, too low it clogs up, too hot it brittles.
@@brunocorrea6010 i guess my comment got shadow banned
@@brunocorrea6010 this, is my 4th comment
Using the right materials with a passive design is better than active combustion, in general. Reliable, robust, outweigh upfront cost (which is way overblown so they don't have to do the work).
Commercial turbine engines don't need a catalytic converter and end up beating ground vehicle emissions because they use lean mixtures with small droplet sizes, which means high droplet boundary temperatures (where the ratio is near stoichiometric) are less common and produce less NOx, which is an endothermic reaction.
It almost looks like a little piston switch. I'm halfway thru the video but that's a cool setup they got! I'm in love with the Maserati mc20 already anyway!
1970's Mercedes Benz diesel tech coming to gas engines.
Many more manufactures were doing a prechamber/swirl chamber as well. Peugeot for example and even VW for a time.
I believe the OM621 engines were even older...
Preach it brothers! (Owner of an '83 MB 300D with an OM617 here)
I was thinking this and Benz used it well. Hope it works well in a gas powered engine.
every single manufacurer of diesel engines were using this before the common rail becoming the norm.
Dude, please keep going with the comedic rants, love it. (the intro)
A Maserati with twice as much going on? I don’t see anything that could go wrong with this (sarcasm)
Seriously. ANYONE who has been around and seen what a normal Maserati looks and runs like after a couple years would know better than buy this. The engineering might be great but the electronics and transmission and quality of construction are going to kill any good engineering. Back in the 70's they were considered poorly built wrecks but still cool. What does the name "Maserati" really bring to the mind of a new buyer who is below the age of say 40?
@@flyingvengeance when I lived up north, I barely saw them and thought they were... meh. One of my co-workers had a Quttroporte(?) which he loved but didn't do much for me. Now that I'm in the sunny South, I see them everywhere... like tons of them. To me they represent a level of exclusivity a bit beyond BMW/Mercedes/Audi. Their styling is very sports-influenced, which is nice. From a reliability perspective I have no idea, but reliability has gotten so great lately it really doesn't matter that much unless it's something major. But what do I know... I have an MC20 on my mind while I'm solidly a Tesla guy now and will probably (realistically) getting another Tesla. The way they drive on the street is just perfect, but on the track I obviously prefer ICE ;)
Great analysis & presentation Jason.
Seeing as the power & efficiency of the TJI tech is limited by roadcar emission here do you have information as to what the true maximum capability for fully realised lean AFR;s from F1 type 'active pre-chamber' TJI is in term of power/efficiency gains when compared to a traditional engine of equivalent size/config?
*Nah, it's gonna be slow If they are using Scuderia Ferrari F1 tech in engine.*
Always s🅱️inning on the Italian roads
@@RenanBorges96 s🅱️innala
@@Jupiter__001_ S🅱️innastian Vettel
it is slow lol compared to other cars in the same price and performance range. The only cool thing is the use of so much cf
Thanks for being you! Knowledge is power.....
That intro lol
I upload similar content just like this one
This is going to backfire like crazy with that legendary Maserati reliability. Can't wait to hear the reports
Anyone else just going back and looping 0:15 to 0:35? No? Just me. Mmmm-kay.
Since when Maserati announced their Nettuno engine, I was genuinely waiting for this video
Me too, I even asked in the comments, but I guess it was bound to happen anyway
You can simulate soot/carbon deposition on the surfaces of the pre-chamber.
It will take a while to set up the simulation and then it will take QUITE a while to run said simulation (and to make sure that the simulation itself is stable and converges), but other than that, you can actually get at least an analytical answer to your curiosity/question.
(There are also ways to accelerate the soot/deposition models once you know what the fluxes are as well.)
Well, the question is usually: are the simulation results accurate? Once you introduce some pretty complex flows and combustion into the mix as in a combustion chamber, I would guess the answer is no.
@@Finnspin_unicycles
That's what the calibration, correlation, and verification tests are for.
You'd be surprised at how accurate the simulations are.
(How do you think Maserati came up with this in the first place prior to cutting steel?)
@@ewenchan1239 I know how accurate (and inaccurate) CFD and combustion simulations can be. But those are very well developed and have decades of research and comparison with the real world behind them.
Soot deposition in quite complicated flow situations? Not exactly an established field where reliable results can be expected.
@@Finnspin_unicycles
"Soot deposition in quite complicated flow situations? Not exactly an established field where reliable results can be expected."
Search for SAE/JSAE papers on this topic and you'll find what you're looking for.
(They've been doing soot deposition in vastly more complicated flow situations than this. This is "peanuts", in terms of complexity, relatively speaking.)
Again, read the SAE papers/publications and you'll find what you're looking for.
So glad they care about the environment 😉
They are forced to care.
Man made climate change is a scam, go look at co2 released from plankton
I just want my 8000+rpm 4 cylinder Hondas back
You questioned the same thing I did. The pre chamber build up. Now the 6.9 IDI and 7.3 IDI diesel engines used one. I never heard of build up problems only damage due to starting fluid.
Begs the question: How much more efficient could our cars be if emission compliance was not in the equation?
Probably they will be less efficient, because there is no need for making an engine efficient if they dont have to comply with emissions, just throw a bigger engine or put a turbo instead of making it more efficient.
Any way, the efficiency will be arround 50 % look at the Mercedes F1 engine, is the most efficient car engine and formula 1 cars don’t have to comply with emission. The incentive for making an engine more efficient is better use of se gasoline more than just making pure power.
Matias B he was talking about FUEL efficiency...the mercedes engine you mentioned has 50% THERMAL efficiency...in order to create more power, but still comply with the rules that F1 proposes...two different things my friend
Rick well my friend, in that manner you right.
But in order to make a car more fuel efficient it has to improve its thermal efficiency, so it can extract more power/energy out of the gasoline. The emissions sistems makes a car less efficient because they produce loses in the combustion cycle, so the engine extract Less energy from the same amount of fuel, for example rich mixtures for reducing temps
lean mixes for reducing CO2 or dumping crude fuel in particulate filters.
Any way, I was think in an other thing when I read Loomies question, but referring at what he really asked, the answer is 10 to 20% I have friends that ripped out the emission systems and thats what they gained.
And how long you can live without the ozone layer
Don't think for a second that the government does any long term research the don't care.
Made a lot of money de-carbonizing pre-chambers & valves on Honda car engines back in the day...
Pre-chamber de-carbonizing and a distributor overhaul (including point & condenser) made them run like near new... depending on the mileage.
Combine that with atkinson cycle and bam you've got the most efficient car in the world
You forgot Freevalve 😉
@@Duskconqueror ouh damn you're right. And opposed pistons😱
Maserati’s first original design in decades, and it’s a biturbo!!!lol I’m actually really excited
Amazing
Another engine with 60k miles lifespan :)))
truth..what could possibly go wrong
It's a supercar, most will never be driven that much
Thanks for this beautiful describe. I got a question, what is the point of pre chamber while you get the same rich air/fuel mixture in the ignition chamber also in pre chamber? Was it only for speed?
"I guess I ran out of facts"
Me: Wait, that's illegal
I saw a TV program back in the 90's where they were plotting what needs to happen to get the engines to be more efficient and clean. The original material was from the 1970's oil crisis times when the anti-smog equipment was introduced. They correctly predicted how complex the engines and transmissions need to be. I remember thinking would it be funny to create everything using vacuum tubes or transistors to show how complicated everything will get. Now would be the time. Then, a "simple" electric motor with one moving part will now replace the whole thing.
90 degree v6, starting off with a compromised design
Ferrari Dinos used a 85 degree V6 50 years ago.
disc brakes were first developed for f1 cars, the trickle down effect is pretty cool.
Currency, when the dealership informs you that the component is not covered under the very limited warranty.
I was wondering about that pre-chamber clogging with carbon or something too but then remembered it’s a Maserati. It will just be part of the “normal” service interval if people actually put a lot of miles on or just another expensive repair that Maserati owners are allegedly used to. Personally I think they make some gorgeous cars. That doesn’t always transfer into usable cars. Sadly the internet has its share of complaints about their reliability. You forgot to mention that the intake valves on many direct injection engines tend to carbon up from the oil vapor originating from the PCV. The port fuel injection also helps wash the valve with fuel and reduce the problem.
Ah.. Complexity... Italians are really good at complex things in Autos.. This one gonna last whole 10k km until it goes kablamooo
USSR had similar technology but with carburetor instead of injectors, but because of 90s it was discontinued. Engine is ZMZ 4022, if you're interested
Of course those holes leading to the chamber will never clog with carbon build-up causing misfire, because italian.
Yeah, gunk accumulating in the pre-chamber was the first thing that I thought of when you said the holes were 1 to 2 mm.
I bet 2 months after purchasing a car with this engine it will have breakdown like a epileptic kid in nightclub
This prechamber concept was done in San Diego in 1992 and tested at SDSU.
The issue was temperature of brass prechamber.
Because of a hot pre-chamber NOX was not as good as it could have been.
Also pre-ignition once hot enough.
looks like cooling fluid channels is enough to solve by removing enough heat.
pre-chamber surface area to volume vs fuel burned inside prechamber drive prechamber temps.
cool stuff.
Pre-chamber volume robs main chamber of compression if energy-pressure of fuel and air inside pre-chamber is not fully transferred to main chamber. Hot pre-chamber hints of that being an efficiency hit.
So where the power gain?
In the delayed power profile.
It takes time for the pressure to get up the spark plug. This helps reduce pre-ignition.
propagate
This takes time.
accelerated
This time allows the crank to turn a few more degrees without high pressure from main combustion flame. Since it is delayed and just starting to propagate across chamber after existing orifice, even with accelerated burn rates, the pressure profile is delayed at first, then catches up later. this produces more power because any pressure made early does not make much power until the crank has turned the "corner". Or for math folks sin of 6 degrees or less, rounds down to zero.