0:44 dt gives a 1.12 multiplier and hdhr actually gives a 1.1236 multiplier so hdhr actually gives more score than dt scores. This is because whenever you add more mods, the game adds the multiplier to the previous multiplier. For example: 1.06(hd) x 1.06(hr) = 1.1236. This is why 4 mod scores have a 1.41 multiplier and not a 1.36 multiplier.
i understand why hdhr gives you more score than dt. HR kills you with OD10, but now, a lot of things has changed, everyone is better in the game than 10 years ago. I think they should update it.
Especially when the teacher’s kid has decent aim, but is terrible at every else except double tapping high bpm streams. Thus allowing the teacher’s kid to get C rank leaderboard spots on speed maps.
@2883mx idk combo definitely shouldn’t be the most important factor in a game that prides itself on accuracy. Like I can kinda get the reasoning our monkey ape brains are like ooo aaa aaa 1 miss not even close to as cool as FC but if you want an objective system small misses shouldn’t be affecting score that much
I cannot believe what I am hearing. Score is the best metric out there. It has no flaws. I will be notifying My People to take you and this video down. We score farmers do not take lightly to the insult of the system we so desperately love. Say your prayers, BruhmasterL.
When you fc a map with terrible acc so you try to improve it But you failed to fc because of a slider break but get an S rank And the one with terrible acc appears just because of combo
THATS LITERALLY MY TOPPLAY SINCE A FEW MONTHS!!! i somehow got an fc on a map thats way out of my league, with an 86% (?) acc. But now that i have improved alot i can a-rank and sometimes even s-rank the map but i never got an fc. i fucking hate it edit: i looked it up, its actually 82.27% acc, even worse than i remembered
@@sento8368 Spinners, a simple yet overlooked part of Osu!. Some even wonder why they exist, should they exist. I pose a deeper meaning behind the spinner. While not a show of skill, they do in fact show the passion or discontent of a play. Think to your best play. Where you spun four hundred + in an enormous circle. Unevenly. This captures the emotion of the moment. The happyness. The joy. The thing that you will forget about the next day. Captured forever. Without sound or any clear communication. But seeing this spinner you recall the feeling you felt. On the other hand, not satisfied with a play. The simple act of spinning bring yet so much despair. That the looming notion of a miss, on the easiest part of the map brings no significance.
@Caden Jamason its not an fc if the game could speak for itself An fc is when you reached the maximum possible combo But for us to not get into drama the community says basicly if you dont break during a run its an fc when technicly it isnt
yeah i think that mods like EZ and hardrock should scale the score based on factors like speed and note density. for example, EZ on spread out jump maps is a lower multipler than EZ on very dense maps with a lot of overlapping notes, and hardrock could be worth more on maps with a high speed value, same with DT. but that would obviously be insanely complicated to implement so idk
You fail to mention that lazer isn’t using scorev2 and in fact has its own scoring system that Peppy has CONFIRMED will be used when score submissions are available on lazer. Dude, do your research
merami has the pp record on mou ii kai, but at the same time is at 6k at the leaderboard of the map funny right, thats a good example of how broken score is, it shoudn't contradict pp that much and thanks, was thinking about making a video about it too, but you did it 100x times better than i would
I feel like EZ needs to be reworked, It's understandable on lower star maps but then you got GN- using EZ on a 8* map and gets less score do the the multipliers
Agreed, but it would be very hard to balance in a good way. Since EZ is basically objectively easier, lower OD (Easier to acc albeit easier to notelock), lower HP (Easier to pass plus in EZ you have 3 lives), lower CS (Doesn’t require much precision). I guess they could do a sort if cap, so every map over 4,5* or something with EZ gives a 1.12ish scrore multiplier and every map with EZ under 4.5* would give less score multiplier then nomod (Not as low as 0.50 score multiplier but you know what I mean). But even this is flawed since I personally find 3.5* maps with EZ harder then many of the 5* nomod maps I play.
Combo based scoring to begin with is asinine when you look at any other rhythm game. osu may be the only game that currently does this, but since osu players often do not play other rhythm games they dont know just how weird it truly is.
osu's reliance on combo is absolutely baffling. people defend it because "that's how its always been" but that's not a good defense for literally anything. other rhythm games go out of their way to not work like this for a reason. i love the gameplay so much but mechanically osu is such a meme
While I do agree that score v1 is not really that great, this video certainly has some points which I don't really agree with. I agree with two points in this video. One being that score v1'ing yourself will not submit the play even if its pp value is higher than the one that is currently set, and the other being HD having the same score multiplier as HR. The other points... well, I just would like to point a few things out. Firstly, a part of the video which I found to be pretty meaningless. In Part 1, you've made a comparison between two maps, trying to show how the DT giving more score than HR can be controversial depending on the map. But... why does this matter? They're two different maps, the score set on either of the map will not effect the other one anyhow. Unless you wanted to bring score leaderboard into the argument, which, judging by how you have later went on to talk more about the pp of the plays and say that score v2 is better than score v1, is seemingly not what you wanted to do. Plus, some maps, for example maps with reading complexity, can be way harder with HD than with HR. So by that logic HD have higher score multiplier than HR for those maps. And, like we all know, since you cannot really give mods different score multiplier for each mapset, mod which is generally considered harder (DT over HR) is given higher score multiplier. Secondly, the weirdest part of the video. You call out score v1 to be bad for allowing what we call "score v1'ing yourself" to happen, which is when a play with higher accuracy can place lower than a play with lower accuracy (usually with fcs or plays with same combo). And I agree with this completely, this is a pretty annoying and weird mechanic that has induced quite a bit of anger from people, and the play submit status should be dependent on the highest pp set on the map, not the highest score set on the map. But later you awknowledge how osu (std) is a combo based game and is fine to have a combo based scoring system. This just contradicts the score v1'ing point since creating a combo based, but 100's and 50's rewarding the same score disadvantage throughout any part of the map just throws the consistency part of the scoring out of the window. You have to realize, score v1 was made during the time when pp leaderboard wasn't a thing. Today, plays are rewarded with pp which is judged heavily with combo, but back then, scores had to be judged heavily with combo. Which is why I guess score v2 fits better for today's leaderboard than score v1, but this brings me to my next point. Score v2 can do the exact same thing as score v1 like you mentioned, and destroys score leaderboard as well as making some maps in the current ranked section extremely difficult to SS. We have already adapted the mapping to the score v1 system, and no matter if people think score v2 is better than score v1, score v1 should be kept as default scoring system over score v2 until maybe even better scoring system comes out. I don't think I need much more explanation about this point and since I'm tired from all the typing I've done I'll just skip this. I enjoy listening to you rant about beatmaps' histories and some other unknown osu facts. But this one, I think is just only trying to point out the bad parts of the game and throw some negativity which this community really doesn't need more of.
Yeah it really isn't too poor of a system when it comes to comparing plays, at least not as poor as this video makes it out to be. It's just a combo based system.
Personally, and I understand this is going to be a relatively shitty opinion, I would like to see Score V1 left in for the single player leaderboards, and just give the option to sort scores by PP (which is what most players actually want anyway). My reasoning for this is (as a score player/leaderboard spot farmer guy) changing the scoring system like this for leaderboards spots can potentially drastically break the single player leaderboards for maps ranked prior to the massive score overhaul.
I don't get why there is even a need for score, it's just redundant with the pp system. Both aim to express the impressiveness of a play numerically - both fail terribly but still. Why not ditch score entirely and just use pp, updating the calculation incrementally to improve its accuracy?
laser uses score v4, NOT score v2, honestly quite surprised you got this that wrong. this is from 2017, blog.ppy.sh/a-definitive-lazer-faq/ but it was quite improved upon ever since.
I've rose up to rank 41, but then the system thought my quick improvement was suspicious and I got falsely banned. Guess I'll have to make a live play showing my legitimacy until I get unbanned and speedrun osu then
I'm just sad seeing this kind of videos. Yes, I do agree score is a bad system, but, the way this video was made, it's just pessimistic... I subbed because somehow I saw interest in your video format, but this and some of your other recent videos made me think, if this is a rant, or something... There's just a lot of things to criticize in the game, but I think being a bit optimist is better. This is just a sad video, to my opinion. I'm still subbed, looking forward to your future videos! (:
@@dark_lumi I just got a new top play of 129pp today but score can do with some minor improvements but is mostly fine, as it does not effect pp very much.
Also mania KSOWDJSKDODSKS i hate the fact that all scores are capped at 1 million. I had more accuracy 99.80≈ but the dude that had 2k combos didn't win while i broke combo halfway in the map 💔 Feels bad man
I do have to say. If PP and score are the only thing that people can use to define their skill, then that means you think you need people to say your good to know your good. Great video its just people only use those 2 systems as a way to judge skill when clearly its not. I think it should be enjoyed as a game and all but im not that good so what can i say.
Score shouldnt even exist in the game anymore. PP is just a better metric in every way, and it has meaning across every map, whereas the number for score is meaningless because it means different things on every single map in the game.
If you researched a bit you might've come across koifishu's interview with ppy who already explained that the scoring system in lazer is not scorev2. I believe he has said this in tweets as well. It's referred to as scorev3 for now I guess but it is miles better than scorev2 and ppy says that he is still experimenting to find the best compromise between combo and acc.
Osu mania players can not relate Mod multipliers? Nope. Dt is just treated as a separate map. (HD and HR are kinda ignores so that kinda sucks but we don’t talk about it) Combo based score? Never heard of it. Acc being more important at one point in the map then another? Damn that’s crazy.
Too be fair the last one is sort of true as if you 99% everything in a map but a 5 second trill you get like 97% acc, not thinking about any map in particular........
FYI the scoring system in lazer ≠ scorev2, but is something called "standardised scoring", which peppy described as a mix of scorev2 and the scoring system in osu!stream (the iOS game, coming to Android this year). It focuses more on acc even more than scorev2 does and since slider heads in lazer are treated like hit circles, you can imagine the level of difficulty added to compensate
Tl;dr: Even though ScoreV1 is really broken, personally in my opinion Emotional Uplifting Orchestral [Easy] and Alternator Compilation [Marathon] should not give the same amount of score for SS. Anecdotally, part of the reason I dislike ScoreV2 is the fact that the score for an SS doesn’t vary for any map. Whether it be max combo, object count, pp or something else entirely, it’s gratifying to see one’s high score for any map increase from perhaps the tens of thousands, to hundreds of thousands, to millions, to tens of millions to hundreds of millions or perhaps billions. The variation wouldn’t necessarily be as large as it is now, but some inter-map variation, maybe on the scale of hundreds or even tens in the case of extremes instead of several thousand (ie 30 second 1-2* maps such as osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1086044#osu/2271055 and Painters of the Tempest/The Unforgiving). I like big numbers so I would like to see something that still prioritizes maps with higher object count but some aspects of ScoreV2 such as accuracy scoring seem pretty cool. Hopefully something comes through that will satisfy the player base even if maximum score is standardized. I see merits to standardization (ease of multiple map tournaments based on total score, comparing scores between maps) and non-standardization (giving each map an extra layer of uniqueness, while promoting perhaps long or hard maps for those juicy (whether or not important otherwise) several million points) however personally I prefer non-standardized.
Just because of this I would stick with ScoreV1. Capping a score at a million just doesn't feel right. It's not satisfying when a 2* 0:30 gives the same score as a 4 minute 6*.
Tbh I like the score being capped, however for osu!, 1000000 feels too low considering 10+ minute maps exist. Scorev2 is better is almost every way, but its not quite good enough (and it doesn’t have slider lieniency aaaa). I just don’t like combo scoring.
@@freemeraldmarbl iirc I saw peppy speak about how lazer scoring should correlate almost perfectly with pp which could be interesting if a map’s score cap was related to pp for SS. Would be very complicated to maintain but it could be another proposal.
kind of funny that you got information about lazer wrong in the notelock video as well as this one :p Lazer uses a very different scoring system compared to scoreV2, also peppy has said that lazer scoring will be potentially changing even further
It annoys me that a 98% acc score of mine is beaten by a 80% score from my friend who managed to not shit miss on one part I did. It makes no sense, how one player that is much better in overall ability to achieve is seen as worse because it didn't hold a combo. Not to mention the absurd amount of times I've missed around the ending section and lost a top pp score, knocking a good 20-60 off the pp I achieved. It's like you perfectly shot the ball through the hoop without touching the rim a single time, but you missed your 2nd to last shot, and the guy that got his ball in off the rim, circling around each time, beat you because he got the 2nd to last one in, and then someone says that the guy who got them all in is a better player despite the luckiness involved with each shot he did.
1:51 We don't know how many misses and/or combo breaks a score has just by looking at the rankings alone. You'd need to compare each score with how many misses they had, how much combo they held before breaking, where they broke. 1:56 Again, we don't know the full picture unless we also look at *where* they picked up the 100s and/or 50s. Also consider spinners, especially shorter songs with more spinners where accuracy matters less. Not going to say the system is perfect. HD + HR (1.1236x multiplier) produces more score than DT (1.12x multiplier) even though both mob combinations are displayed as a 1.12x combo multiplier in-game because mathematically it provides a marginally larger multiplier, explained by @TeaDose). HR should reward more score (or HD should give less), because generally HR *is* more challenging. Also holding a combo in a very challenging song, especially with high accuracy, is very impressive and should, and is, be accounted for. If combo isn't the most important metric, then accuracy would be. I also get frustrated when my score with 99.85% accuracy is beaten by 98.56% accuracy due to me getting 100s and/or 50s later in the song or when my score with 100% accuracy is beaten by a score with 99.86% accuracy because someone span better than I did. Is the scoring system fair? I'd say it mostly is. Definitely not perfect, but fair enough. Could it be better? Yes. You could probably reduce the amount of score combo provides in favor of accuracy or another metric so that breaking combo isn't as detrimental.
Take a look at the map BLANKFIELD - Retrospective City on the [Extra] diff. Look at the leaderboards, specifically at the #2 spot and the #4 spot. This is literally undeniable proof of scorev1 being a pure garbage can.
Yep. The combo system is dumb. There's a reason GH combo works the way it does, where you get combo up to 4x and then it stops growing. That way, combo still matters, but it doesn't matter where you miss (that's not 100% true, but a miss won't affect the whole map, that's point)
I disagree with a part. Score isn't meant to be a comparison between different maps. Only betwen the same map, and fair enough, HR is on some maps really hard in comparison to DT. But it doesn't hurt me in any ways, there's a global leaderbord with the mods you're using for a reason. Still great video
To be honest when I was thinking about standard basically being like mania. When it came to the leaderboards I was like. Mods like, hidden, double time, hardock and flash light are gonna be very useless since accuracy is like the most important thing now but it kind of reminded me of the rating system in quaver. The more mods that bring the difficulty up like changing the speed of the song (which is basically the only mod that increases difficulty and is able to be used for rank) would increase the rating. Even if your accuracy was less than other players, if you had mods that would make the song harder it would increase the rating and balance it out. Though I don't think that osu will or should probably do something like this since first they have their own pp system and second rating is basically performance points for quaver.
Is it bug or it's just me.When you play a map , unistall the map and install it again and when you click it . It says it's not ranked without clicking to global lb.You play through the whole map. Make better score but it's not submitted and your old one stays. This thing fucked up a lot good scores of mine
I honestly dont mind it, it sucks to have your scores add up weirdly but on some level I appreciate that its not as easy of a system to "beat" by figuring out the patterns and playing into that, like some other rhythm games. It can be mind bendingly frustrating but I can see where they were trying to make "understanding the music" the biggest factor in the score with the weird combo mechanics. Overall i think it's pretty useless to criticize a games scoring function, they arent made for the sole purpose of winning them.
Yeah I'm kinda bummed out by the fact that you have to FC a map to even get any PP because of the multiplier, in Beat Saber the ranked system is way better, the multiplier goes up to 8x only with consecutive hits, so it's much more forgiving and you can climb the ranks with some mistakes here and there.
The scoring system os bad and annoying, but I at least don't really care, I enjoy the game and although the score system sucks it rarely has an actual effect. pLs EnJoY gAmE
i think that accuracy shoulh only be applied as a multiplier when the song is over. Like if you got 1000 score, and 98% acc it would end up being 98000
The other day I got a 100 pp play which is usually rare for me and it would be my 2nd one. I didn’t fc it so I wanted to and I did end up fcing except I had worse accuracy and my score was over written and now it is my 3rd top play
ok, before all go bashing this and that osu! and laser are both WIP games to changing to basically you should try to level with ppy as he wants to tweak these things too so going on and bashing him which I hope none are doing that him and all putting their blood, sweat, and tears into this game! *enjoy game* and all 4 modes! thanks the mappers, BN's, GMT's to all who aid osu! which includes the players in which to gain perspective on x you gotta try that said thing so try it!? just once!? yes that means skinning too.
Set my first 300 on blue dragon yesterday, but went to fix my acc a bit and ended up score v1ing myself due to the spinner near the end and ended up with 290 pp instead 😐
The fact that combo matters more then your acc is ridiculous. You can have like a 99% 550 combo but one miss but when there is a 80% FC that score with shit acc will overwrite your clearly better score, all because of one miss.
it's funny because the gamemode mostly played is std, have a terrible score system, and then u play osu!mania that have the best score system in the game xd sorry my english is not too good XD
imo as an osu! and an Beat Saber player i feel like the Beat Saber System would have been way better, but it would have made this an acc game instead (still better)
the score system is the only thing that makes maps longer than TV size rewarding cause pp wise long maps aren't worth it. Edit: I also thought that osu now keeps track of your highest pp play on a map, so you don't override a play with less pp than previous?
well. it does and does not. previously it automatically used the highest score you had on a map. period. now it checks the highest score for each mod combo separately. for the map leaderboard it will use the highest score, but for your pp calculation it checks all possible mod combinations, but picks the pp value among them. Example - you have a 600 pp score on a map with 98.5 % accurancy (DT Mod). you then Fc the map with HDHR at 99% worth 400 pp (and get higher score). the new score will be shown on the map leaderboard, but will not become part of your top plays. however, if you outscore your DT score with a 98% DT FC on the same map, you will still be "score v1'd".
Finally someone who mentions it. I had the issue of pp loss minimum 10 times, even with some of my best scores since I am bad at FCing. It is annoying that you cant really play your favourite maps since you might lose pp if you just play casually or warm up and accidently break you record
you can just not submit the score lol. I agree the system is hot garbage, but that doesnt mean you like cant play a map out of fear of submitting a shit score.
@@kirby6548 did you think for 1 second before posting that? You can just quit put of the score at the end of the map if you don't want it to overtake your old, better one.
@@kirby6548 idk man Ive never had a time where I wasnt sure about whether I had a better or worse misscount, and the acc is literally just displayed at the top right
one time i ss'ed a 2 star map (im 7 digit) with hr dt sd and it was less score then a b nomod and today i A ranked another 2 star and it was less then a no mod B
don't forget how you can S rank a map but still have a C as your visible score
Those piss me off so much
Truee
My S rank on tower of heaven is still a C
@@leyrywilson3849 you mean fc?
???
When he said "And i think that's pretty annoying" *You know he's mad.*
I was shaking after he said that
@@flufph625 straight up quivering
100th like
LMAO
**kinda** annoying
bruhmaster is doing a brand new series: "making fun of osu and its mechanics"
i like
love the pfp
gonna be more than 400 episodes probably
false.
@bual it is
0:44 dt gives a 1.12 multiplier and hdhr actually gives a 1.1236 multiplier so hdhr actually gives more score than dt scores. This is because whenever you add more mods, the game adds the multiplier to the previous multiplier. For example: 1.06(hd) x 1.06(hr) = 1.1236. This is why 4 mod scores have a 1.41 multiplier and not a 1.36 multiplier.
galactic brain
It's still shit that dt gives only 1.12 and hr gives only 1.06
Big brain moment
i understand why hdhr gives you more score than dt. HR kills you with OD10, but now, a lot of things has changed, everyone is better in the game than 10 years ago. I think they should update it.
@@dio4912 yes but i hope everyone can agree slapping dt on most maps is alot harder than hdhr on the same map
just play more
@O!D Braixenn fr
@O!D Braixenn appreciated
Play more™
*enjoy game*
and the other 3 modes too but.... sadly y'all don't care about them so sad.
Mappers good.
60% C rank FC > 99.8% S rank with 1 slider break in the very middle of the song
osu score is like a teacher rigging a contest for their favorite kid
Except their favourite kid is in a different class
false.
Especially when the teacher’s kid has decent aim, but is terrible at every else except double tapping high bpm streams. Thus allowing the teacher’s kid to get C rank leaderboard spots on speed maps.
Bruh master got his top play score v1ed so he made this video to rant
"Yes that makes sense"
-Said no one ever, about scoreV1
false.
True.
@2883mx idk combo definitely shouldn’t be the most important factor in a game that prides itself on accuracy. Like I can kinda get the reasoning our monkey ape brains are like ooo aaa aaa 1 miss not even close to as cool as FC but if you want an objective system small misses shouldn’t be affecting score that much
I cannot believe what I am hearing. Score is the best metric out there. It has no flaws. I will be notifying My People to take you and this video down. We score farmers do not take lightly to the insult of the system we so desperately love. Say your prayers, BruhmasterL.
I agree
I agree
Hi
i was waiting for this comment momo lmao
all other languages and he chose to speak facts
[osu!] The Story of Lifeline, the man who singletapped his way to single digit.
awkward vaxei moment
@@thatgabguy9615 true but if im not mistaken lifeline can't alternate and stream while vaxei can
Lifeline just farms he’s literally all jumps
@@apollo1211 oh boy here come the statistic-ers
@@apollo1211 then if hes all jumps and is so easy to get to a high rank, why doesn’t everyone farm to top player if its so easy
When you fc a map with terrible acc so you try to improve it
But you failed to fc because of a slider break but get an S rank
And the one with terrible acc appears just because of combo
combo game :(
combo game :(
true
THATS LITERALLY MY TOPPLAY SINCE A FEW MONTHS!!! i somehow got an fc on a map thats way out of my league, with an 86% (?) acc. But now that i have improved alot i can a-rank and sometimes even s-rank the map but i never got an fc. i fucking hate it
edit: i looked it up, its actually 82.27% acc, even worse than i remembered
@@callmespaghet this comment was so long ago I already quit the game
We got Noteloc and Score already, we're just waiting for him to make fun of the PP System to complete the "osu! mechanics people dont like" Trio
inb4 he makes fun of every feature in osu!
inb4 he beats the shit out of peppy not releasing lazer
@@Androwomeda "The Hit Circle, The dumbest object in osu!"
@@franticsss_xd7025 *spinner
@@sento8368 Spinners, a simple yet overlooked part of Osu!. Some even wonder why they exist, should they exist. I pose a deeper meaning behind the spinner. While not a show of skill, they do in fact show the passion or discontent of a play.
Think to your best play. Where you spun four hundred + in an enormous circle. Unevenly. This captures the emotion of the moment. The happyness. The joy. The thing that you will forget about the next day. Captured forever. Without sound or any clear communication. But seeing this spinner you recall the feeling you felt.
On the other hand, not satisfied with a play. The simple act of spinning bring yet so much despair. That the looming notion of a miss, on the easiest part of the map brings no significance.
I really want to have a method of determining if I got an FC or not why on earth does S rank include sliderbreaks
I used to not know what a slider break was... I was so confused when I no missed a map but didn’t fc lol
There is a method tho, you just see if the fc thing lights up in the graph in the score window. An sb wont make it light up
@@joccie7113 Mine doesn't tho, I used the rohulk skin
@Caden Jamason well officially it doesnt count as an fc, but in terms of pp its virtually the same so noone cares
@Caden Jamason its not an fc if the game could speak for itself
An fc is when you reached the maximum possible combo
But for us to not get into drama the community says basicly if you dont break during a run its an fc when technicly it isnt
i'm kinda just viben to the fgsky plays in the background ngl
EZ needs to be worth more on high density maps
yeah i think that mods like EZ and hardrock should scale the score based on factors like speed and note density. for example,
EZ on spread out jump maps is a lower multipler than EZ on very dense maps with a lot of overlapping notes, and hardrock could be worth more on maps with a high speed value, same with DT. but that would obviously be insanely complicated to implement so idk
Whenever I try to measure my improvement on maps I just go by acc at this point, seems to be a way more grounded way to look how I am performing
acc is the only way, also how consistent are you with getting high acc on x map
I go by acc and misscount
@@Croaa I know. osu community is basically retard and thinks 99.1% acc 30 miss is better than 99% acc 1 miss
@@badereric No?
You fail to mention that lazer isn’t using scorev2 and in fact has its own scoring system that Peppy has CONFIRMED will be used when score submissions are available on lazer. Dude, do your research
merami has the pp record on mou ii kai, but at the same time is at 6k at the leaderboard of the map
funny right, thats a good example of how broken score is, it shoudn't contradict pp that much
and thanks, was thinking about making a video about it too, but you did it 100x times better than i would
Idea: pay 10 dollars to peppy per attempt on a map for double score on that attempt, I dont see any problems with it
Cookie score on FD4D will be sniped in 3 seconds lmao
The S in Supporter means S rank
Nice try, peppy! :D
pay to win
I feel like EZ needs to be reworked, It's understandable on lower star maps but then you got GN- using EZ on a 8* map and gets less score do the the multipliers
I agree
i cant tell if thats a common pfp or if you really just switched to an alt with the same pfp
Agreed, but it would be very hard to balance in a good way. Since EZ is basically objectively easier, lower OD (Easier to acc albeit easier to notelock), lower HP (Easier to pass plus in EZ you have 3 lives), lower CS (Doesn’t require much precision). I guess they could do a sort if cap, so every map over 4,5* or something with EZ gives a 1.12ish scrore multiplier and every map with EZ under 4.5* would give less score multiplier then nomod (Not as low as 0.50 score multiplier but you know what I mean). But even this is flawed since I personally find 3.5* maps with EZ harder then many of the 5* nomod maps I play.
tbh the 0.5x multiplier is from the oldest version of the game
@@lukashff3543 ez shouldnt give a >1 score multiplier on 4.5*+ lol
Combo based scoring to begin with is asinine when you look at any other rhythm game. osu may be the only game that currently does this, but since osu players often do not play other rhythm games they dont know just how weird it truly is.
osu's reliance on combo is absolutely baffling. people defend it because "that's how its always been" but that's not a good defense for literally anything. other rhythm games go out of their way to not work like this for a reason. i love the gameplay so much but mechanically osu is such a meme
While I do agree that score v1 is not really that great, this video certainly has some points which I don't really agree with.
I agree with two points in this video. One being that score v1'ing yourself will not submit the play even if its pp value is higher than the one that is currently set, and the other being HD having the same score multiplier as HR. The other points... well, I just would like to point a few things out.
Firstly, a part of the video which I found to be pretty meaningless. In Part 1, you've made a comparison between two maps, trying to show how the DT giving more score than HR can be controversial depending on the map. But... why does this matter? They're two different maps, the score set on either of the map will not effect the other one anyhow. Unless you wanted to bring score leaderboard into the argument, which, judging by how you have later went on to talk more about the pp of the plays and say that score v2 is better than score v1, is seemingly not what you wanted to do. Plus, some maps, for example maps with reading complexity, can be way harder with HD than with HR. So by that logic HD have higher score multiplier than HR for those maps. And, like we all know, since you cannot really give mods different score multiplier for each mapset, mod which is generally considered harder (DT over HR) is given higher score multiplier.
Secondly, the weirdest part of the video. You call out score v1 to be bad for allowing what we call "score v1'ing yourself" to happen, which is when a play with higher accuracy can place lower than a play with lower accuracy (usually with fcs or plays with same combo). And I agree with this completely, this is a pretty annoying and weird mechanic that has induced quite a bit of anger from people, and the play submit status should be dependent on the highest pp set on the map, not the highest score set on the map. But later you awknowledge how osu (std) is a combo based game and is fine to have a combo based scoring system. This just contradicts the score v1'ing point since creating a combo based, but 100's and 50's rewarding the same score disadvantage throughout any part of the map just throws the consistency part of the scoring out of the window. You have to realize, score v1 was made during the time when pp leaderboard wasn't a thing. Today, plays are rewarded with pp which is judged heavily with combo, but back then, scores had to be judged heavily with combo. Which is why I guess score v2 fits better for today's leaderboard than score v1, but this brings me to my next point.
Score v2 can do the exact same thing as score v1 like you mentioned, and destroys score leaderboard as well as making some maps in the current ranked section extremely difficult to SS. We have already adapted the mapping to the score v1 system, and no matter if people think score v2 is better than score v1, score v1 should be kept as default scoring system over score v2 until maybe even better scoring system comes out. I don't think I need much more explanation about this point and since I'm tired from all the typing I've done I'll just skip this.
I enjoy listening to you rant about beatmaps' histories and some other unknown osu facts. But this one, I think is just only trying to point out the bad parts of the game and throw some negativity which this community really doesn't need more of.
Yeah it really isn't too poor of a system when it comes to comparing plays, at least not as poor as this video makes it out to be. It's just a combo based system.
History of the ElMick collab when?
Personally, and I understand this is going to be a relatively shitty opinion, I would like to see Score V1 left in for the single player leaderboards, and just give the option to sort scores by PP (which is what most players actually want anyway).
My reasoning for this is (as a score player/leaderboard spot farmer guy) changing the scoring system like this for leaderboards spots can potentially drastically break the single player leaderboards for maps ranked prior to the massive score overhaul.
Also please allow to sort by miss-count and accuracy
I don't get why there is even a need for score, it's just redundant with the pp system. Both aim to express the impressiveness of a play numerically - both fail terribly but still. Why not ditch score entirely and just use pp, updating the calculation incrementally to improve its accuracy?
laser uses score v4,
NOT score v2,
honestly quite surprised you got this that wrong.
this is from 2017, blog.ppy.sh/a-definitive-lazer-faq/
but it was quite improved upon ever since.
don't know where you got the score V4 name, nobody uses that, lazer scoring is the preferred name :)
@@janmalicek6914 peppy himself said it wash kinda like "score v4" from his interview with koifishu.
@@KoaIa200 kinda like doesn't mean that it's actually called that tho :D
@@janmalicek6914 agreed :p
so it's a bit far fetched but not necessarily wrong
Next GN's The unforgiving FL FC
Ikr
i was happy my guy zachTV was in here and then you said "inferior in every way" i kinda don't want to show him anymore
When your 99% play is beaten by a 91% play that even has more misses than your play.. Yep, that's std scoring for you
Dont break combo?
Ah yes, why didn't I think of that before, just don't break combo. Thanks to your advice I am now a top player, thanks my dude!
whitecat better be ready for the new #1 player friggel flander who just doesn't break combo
I've rose up to rank 41, but then the system thought my quick improvement was suspicious and I got falsely banned.
Guess I'll have to make a live play showing my legitimacy until I get unbanned and speedrun osu then
Because you held your combo better with the 91% play. Accuracy is important, but combo is more important in osu.
I'm just sad seeing this kind of videos. Yes, I do agree score is a bad system, but, the way this video was made, it's just pessimistic... I subbed because somehow I saw interest in your video format, but this and some of your other recent videos made me think, if this is a rant, or something... There's just a lot of things to criticize in the game, but I think being a bit optimist is better. This is just a sad video, to my opinion.
I'm still subbed, looking forward to your future videos! (:
Nah u just salty u ain't getting higher ones
sounds like someone with a 120pp top play would say
@@dark_lumi I just got a new top play of 129pp today but score can do with some minor improvements but is mostly fine, as it does not effect pp very much.
@@dark_lumi true
@@dark_lumi this kid is probably baiting
@@amathine440 yeah i know lmao but it's probably true either way
Also mania KSOWDJSKDODSKS i hate the fact that all scores are capped at 1 million. I had more accuracy 99.80≈ but the dude that had 2k combos didn't win while i broke combo halfway in the map 💔
Feels bad man
I do have to say. If PP and score are the only thing that people can use to define their skill, then that means you think you need people to say your good to know your good. Great video its just people only use those 2 systems as a way to judge skill when clearly its not. I think it should be enjoyed as a game and all but im not that good so what can i say.
Score shouldnt even exist in the game anymore. PP is just a better metric in every way, and it has meaning across every map, whereas the number for score is meaningless because it means different things on every single map in the game.
Okay, complaining video.. But no solutions or ideas? Whats the point?
? Jeez this video is not good please do extremely basic research on lazer at the least before insulting it
Logically DT should multiply the score by 1.5x
At first I never knew how this worked but now that I do I don’t understand why this is still a thing.
WhiteCat galaxy collapse 6 miss is 3rd place lmao
Claim your “here before 200 comments” ticket here
Yes pls
Alrightie then
Why do we even play this game if it’s such a mess lol
If you researched a bit you might've come across koifishu's interview with ppy who already explained that the scoring system in lazer is not scorev2. I believe he has said this in tweets as well. It's referred to as scorev3 for now I guess but it is miles better than scorev2 and ppy says that he is still experimenting to find the best compromise between combo and acc.
It's "officially" called "Standardised Scoring" and is a described as "a mix of scorev2 and the scoring system in osu!stream"
History of Sound Chimera when?
He definitely got score v1'd for a leaderboard spot and made this
Osu mania players can not relate
Mod multipliers? Nope. Dt is just treated as a separate map. (HD and HR are kinda ignores so that kinda sucks but we don’t talk about it)
Combo based score? Never heard of it.
Acc being more important at one point in the map then another? Damn that’s crazy.
Too be fair the last one is sort of true as if you 99% everything in a map but a 5 second trill you get like 97% acc, not thinking about any map in particular........
that’s just note density not exactly avoidable unless you make some notes worth more then others, which is obviously not a good idea 😎
@@lueegee5790 true, but technically speaking some parts are still worth considerably more then others.
(even though it may be a technicality)
@@neondrakon8084 yeah, but in general, I’d still say the mania score system is better then standard. Mania mapping on the other hand 🗿
@@lueegee5790 Scoring a lot better, pp worse or equally bad, ranking criteria a lot worse and mp boring.
idk if you read the comments but your editing has gotten progressively better and more engaging, keep up the good work
all about improvement and enjoy the ride
and *FUN!*
Yeah, I just figured I didn't need to know how it worked.
how have we not destroyed combo scoring at this point
Beats me
FYI the scoring system in lazer ≠ scorev2, but is something called "standardised scoring", which peppy described as a mix of scorev2 and the scoring system in osu!stream (the iOS game, coming to Android this year). It focuses more on acc even more than scorev2 does and since slider heads in lazer are treated like hit circles, you can imagine the level of difficulty added to compensate
Tl;dr: Even though ScoreV1 is really broken, personally in my opinion Emotional Uplifting Orchestral [Easy] and Alternator Compilation [Marathon] should not give the same amount of score for SS.
Anecdotally, part of the reason I dislike ScoreV2 is the fact that the score for an SS doesn’t vary for any map. Whether it be max combo, object count, pp or something else entirely, it’s gratifying to see one’s high score for any map increase from perhaps the tens of thousands, to hundreds of thousands, to millions, to tens of millions to hundreds of millions or perhaps billions. The variation wouldn’t necessarily be as large as it is now, but some inter-map variation, maybe on the scale of hundreds or even tens in the case of extremes instead of several thousand (ie 30 second 1-2* maps such as osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1086044#osu/2271055 and Painters of the Tempest/The Unforgiving).
I like big numbers so I would like to see something that still prioritizes maps with higher object count but some aspects of ScoreV2 such as accuracy scoring seem pretty cool. Hopefully something comes through that will satisfy the player base even if maximum score is standardized. I see merits to standardization (ease of multiple map tournaments based on total score, comparing scores between maps) and non-standardization (giving each map an extra layer of uniqueness, while promoting perhaps long or hard maps for those juicy (whether or not important otherwise) several million points) however personally I prefer non-standardized.
Just because of this I would stick with ScoreV1. Capping a score at a million just doesn't feel right. It's not satisfying when a 2* 0:30 gives the same score as a 4 minute 6*.
Tbh I like the score being capped, however for osu!, 1000000 feels too low considering 10+ minute maps exist. Scorev2 is better is almost every way, but its not quite good enough (and it doesn’t have slider lieniency aaaa). I just don’t like combo scoring.
@@jasoncola6071 Or worse, a 27 minute 6* or 17 minute 8*
@@freemeraldmarbl iirc I saw peppy speak about how lazer scoring should correlate almost perfectly with pp which could be interesting if a map’s score cap was related to pp for SS. Would be very complicated to maintain but it could be another proposal.
@@jasoncola6071 Yeah, not to mention that the score cap removes any reason to play nomod.
But without combo scoring I couldn't be on leaderboards with EZ.
kind of funny that you got information about lazer wrong in the notelock video as well as this one :p Lazer uses a very different scoring system compared to scoreV2, also peppy has said that lazer scoring will be potentially changing even further
source?
@@AccV999 koifishu's interview with peppy
Funnily enough score v2 for mania adds combo multiplier
really!? interesting.
but why
I hate scorev2. score is epic atm
proposal: remove score
leaderboard spot now get sorted by your global rank
lmao wtf? pls say sike
just fc lol get good bro
He changed the outro, you know he's pissed.
Score in osu! is completely broken.. and I think that's pretty cool
0:45 correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't HDHR give slightly more score than DT?
pretty sure you're right. HDHR combined gives 1.13x, but DT only gives 1.12x
@@aiman6671 iirc hdhr gives 1.125 on s repeating scale while dt gives 1.12 only
@@Icyshade. ah okay, my mistake. thought it was exactly 1.13
good video bruhman
"Universally hated" damn, I guess I'm the only person who likes ScoreV1 and doesn't want ScoreV2 to replace it then, lol.
It annoys me that a 98% acc score of mine is beaten by a 80% score from my friend who managed to not shit miss on one part I did. It makes no sense, how one player that is much better in overall ability to achieve is seen as worse because it didn't hold a combo. Not to mention the absurd amount of times I've missed around the ending section and lost a top pp score, knocking a good 20-60 off the pp I achieved. It's like you perfectly shot the ball through the hoop without touching the rim a single time, but you missed your 2nd to last shot, and the guy that got his ball in off the rim, circling around each time, beat you because he got the 2nd to last one in, and then someone says that the guy who got them all in is a better player despite the luckiness involved with each shot he did.
1:51 We don't know how many misses and/or combo breaks a score has just by looking at the rankings alone. You'd need to compare each score with how many misses they had, how much combo they held before breaking, where they broke.
1:56 Again, we don't know the full picture unless we also look at *where* they picked up the 100s and/or 50s.
Also consider spinners, especially shorter songs with more spinners where accuracy matters less.
Not going to say the system is perfect. HD + HR (1.1236x multiplier) produces more score than DT (1.12x multiplier) even though both mob combinations are displayed as a 1.12x combo multiplier in-game because mathematically it provides a marginally larger multiplier, explained by @TeaDose).
HR should reward more score (or HD should give less), because generally HR *is* more challenging.
Also holding a combo in a very challenging song, especially with high accuracy, is very impressive and should, and is, be accounted for. If combo isn't the most important metric, then accuracy would be.
I also get frustrated when my score with 99.85% accuracy is beaten by 98.56% accuracy due to me getting 100s and/or 50s later in the song or when my score with 100% accuracy is beaten by a score with 99.86% accuracy because someone span better than I did.
Is the scoring system fair? I'd say it mostly is. Definitely not perfect, but fair enough. Could it be better? Yes. You could probably reduce the amount of score combo provides in favor of accuracy or another metric so that breaking combo isn't as detrimental.
Im very satisfied with the score system except one thing: why do my 100pp plays get replaced by 70pp plays
Take a look at the map BLANKFIELD - Retrospective City on the [Extra] diff. Look at the leaderboards, specifically at the #2 spot and the #4 spot.
This is literally undeniable proof of scorev1 being a pure garbage can.
Yep. The combo system is dumb.
There's a reason GH combo works the way it does, where you get combo up to 4x and then it stops growing.
That way, combo still matters, but it doesn't matter where you miss (that's not 100% true, but a miss won't affect the whole map, that's point)
I disagree with a part.
Score isn't meant to be a comparison between different maps.
Only betwen the same map, and fair enough, HR is on some maps really hard in comparison to DT.
But it doesn't hurt me in any ways, there's a global leaderbord with the mods you're using for a reason.
Still great video
To be honest when I was thinking about standard basically being like mania. When it came to the leaderboards I was like. Mods like, hidden, double time, hardock and flash light are gonna be very useless since accuracy is like the most important thing now but it kind of reminded me of the rating system in quaver. The more mods that bring the difficulty up like changing the speed of the song (which is basically the only mod that increases difficulty and is able to be used for rank) would increase the rating. Even if your accuracy was less than other players, if you had mods that would make the song harder it would increase the rating and balance it out. Though I don't think that osu will or should probably do something like this since first they have their own pp system and second rating is basically performance points for quaver.
Is it bug or it's just me.When you play a map , unistall the map and install it again and when you click it . It says it's not ranked without clicking to global lb.You play through the whole map. Make better score but it's not submitted and your old one stays. This thing fucked up a lot good scores of mine
I honestly dont mind it, it sucks to have your scores add up weirdly but on some level I appreciate that its not as easy of a system to "beat" by figuring out the patterns and playing into that, like some other rhythm games. It can be mind bendingly frustrating but I can see where they were trying to make "understanding the music" the biggest factor in the score with the weird combo mechanics. Overall i think it's pretty useless to criticize a games scoring function, they arent made for the sole purpose of winning them.
Yeah I'm kinda bummed out by the fact that you have to FC a map to even get any PP because of the multiplier, in Beat Saber the ranked system is way better, the multiplier goes up to 8x only with consecutive hits, so it's much more forgiving and you can climb the ranks with some mistakes here and there.
The scoring system os bad and annoying, but I at least don't really care, I enjoy the game and although the score system sucks it rarely has an actual effect. pLs EnJoY gAmE
i think that accuracy shoulh only be applied as a multiplier when the song is over. Like if you got 1000 score, and 98% acc it would end up being 98000
The other day I got a 100 pp play which is usually rare for me and it would be my 2nd one. I didn’t fc it so I wanted to and I did end up fcing except I had worse accuracy and my score was over written and now it is my 3rd top play
well I'm happy about how the score system works as of right now.
because I don't care ;)
ok, before all go bashing this and that osu! and laser are both WIP games to changing to basically you should try to level with ppy as he wants to tweak these things too so going on and bashing him which I hope none are doing that him and all putting their blood, sweat, and tears into this game!
*enjoy game* and all 4 modes! thanks the mappers, BN's, GMT's to all who aid osu! which includes the players in which to gain perspective on x you gotta try that said thing so try it!? just once!? yes that means skinning too.
Set my first 300 on blue dragon yesterday, but went to fix my acc a bit and ended up score v1ing myself due to the spinner near the end and ended up with 290 pp instead 😐
Yeah scoring system is fucking awful, but hr and hd giving the same multiplier is reasonable. Dt should give more points that hdhr tho.
what is the worse? all your 14x 100 is in the end of map or all your 40x 100 in first 60 objects of the map?
easiest solution is to set map leaderboards to sort by pp, just like the actually ranking system
The fact that combo matters more then your acc is ridiculous. You can have like a 99% 550 combo but one miss but when there is a 80% FC that score with shit acc will overwrite your clearly better score, all because of one miss.
it's funny because the gamemode mostly played is std, have a terrible score system, and then u play osu!mania that have the best score system in the game xd
sorry my english is not too good XD
I think combo is a thing that, sure does not work as showing your best preformance, but makes the game fun with something to strive for
imo as an osu! and an Beat Saber player i feel like the Beat Saber System would have been way better, but it would have made this an acc game instead (still better)
Only one thing i think you said that's not right, DT only has less multiplier than HDHR. You said they had the same score.
i just reverse pp farmed on accident and lost 100 pp cus of this scoring system ;))))
"...and I think that's kind of annoying..."
shit alert he didn't say awesome or cool red alert
This is why I don't play this game anymore.
This is what I hated about standard. Why not just make it about JUST accuracy?
I came back to this vid when flyingtuna 1kpp got scorev1ed
I think it’s pretty much impossible to fix the problem of getting scored v’d
the score system is the only thing that makes maps longer than TV size rewarding cause pp wise long maps aren't worth it.
Edit: I also thought that osu now keeps track of your highest pp play on a map, so you don't override a play with less pp than previous?
well. it does and does not. previously it automatically used the highest score you had on a map. period.
now it checks the highest score for each mod combo separately. for the map leaderboard it will use the highest score, but for your pp calculation it checks all possible mod combinations, but picks the pp value among them.
Example - you have a 600 pp score on a map with 98.5 % accurancy (DT Mod). you then Fc the map with HDHR at 99% worth 400 pp (and get higher score). the new score will be shown on the map leaderboard, but will not become part of your top plays. however, if you outscore your DT score with a 98% DT FC on the same map, you will still be "score v1'd".
I was just waiting to see what he said after I think that's always trying to guess before lol
Finally someone who mentions it. I had the issue of pp loss minimum 10 times, even with some of my best scores since I am bad at FCing. It is annoying that you cant really play your favourite maps since you might lose pp if you just play casually or warm up and accidently break you record
you can just not submit the score lol. I agree the system is hot garbage, but that doesnt mean you like cant play a map out of fear of submitting a shit score.
@@badereric If you play online it will automatically submit the shit score...
@@kirby6548 did you think for 1 second before posting that? You can just quit put of the score at the end of the map if you don't want it to overtake your old, better one.
@@badereric Well, before seeing your actual score you dont know if it was better or worse than your previous record. And you dont always think of that
@@kirby6548 idk man Ive never had a time where I wasnt sure about whether I had a better or worse misscount, and the acc is literally just displayed at the top right
old but, tbh i like scorev1
only thing i despise about it is sliderbreaks giving S ranks :/
tfw you have a C as your best play on a map then you get an S on the map but it had lower combo than the C and so the S rank had lower score
wait what, if my score doesnt beat my highest score it doesnt count towards pp?
Cmon
uhh no one cares just play the game and have fun
...
yup, 3.7k views and no one cares
one time i ss'ed a 2 star map (im 7 digit) with hr dt sd and it was less score then a b nomod and today i A ranked another 2 star and it was less then a no mod B