To be fair, this is an indigenous practice and colonizers knew that this would prevent labor necessity. It's not profitable for people to lack dependence for food
Learned about Permaculture many years ago. We just bought 36 acres and are looking to start about an acre of Food Forest; however, the deer are more plentiful than the plants here : ). I know I can plant deer food plants but they will eat them and then eat everything else as well. How does this guy keep the critters out??
We take a lot of inspiration from Martin Crawfords material and we are always trying encourage others to use components of the forest in their own gardens. Great video, thank you for making all the way back in 2010.
I did not realize this is what I've been doing. I was trying to plant a diverse garden for a variety of critters as well as beauty. Glad for your info.
Beautiful forest garden. I strive to create one as beautiful as your's one day Mr. Crawford. Once I get a piece of land I'll create a similar Eden for all life that enters. Stay healthy.
Thank you Martin and nuprojectvideos. Inspiring viewing. We have a vision to make community forest gardens in Sompting as well as creating a 20 acre agroforestry project, so seeing a mature garden is a great vision!
Hi. An incredible variety of plants, beautiful garden. In Spain they have live agro pastoral traditions, I have writen about it in the permaculture forums of paul wheaton in the forestry part under oaks and junipers. Come to spain and see it. I saw a You Tube video of harvesting bamboo shoots in Japan and they cut them from below the ground and before they got as high as you do. I have heard that bamboo shoots contain cynide as do cherry pips so need cooking. My medlar's full of canker.rose.
Very interesting video, and a nice introduction into forest gardening. I am also one of them who have been doing this without knowing the academic term. Anyone who have tried forest gardening on rather small plots in H3? I have groundcovers (strawberry and blueberry), lots of raspberry's and blackberry's, junipers, some birches, also lots of ribes. I am trying oregano and such, too, but it is cold up here in Norway. :) How do antifungals discriminate good from bad?
I love Martin's book, but I wanted to point out a mistake in his design. He plants taller trees in the East than he does in the West. He says plants prefer to do photosynthesis in the afternoon, and that it's better to protect them from the sun hitting the frozen part of the leaves in winter/spring in the morning. That's actually the opposite. Plants do much more photosynthesis in the morning overall. First, they breathe during the night, so produce CO2. So in the morning you actually have an increased CO2 concentration in the air, and since CO2 is heavier than air, it stays around the ground. So plants will use that CO2 in the morning to do a lot of photosynthesis. Moreover, in late Spring/Summer, plants are a lot less active in the afternoon, they tend to "rest" because it's too hot. And in Winter/Spring there's not a lot of chances of damage from the sun hitting frozen leaves, as most European plants are deciduous anyway. That's just one design error I needed to point out.
Hi from 2022! Good news: The pandemic is more or less over. For now. Bad news: Where shall I begin. There's a nitrogen fertilizer shortage due to soaring gas prices. On top of this, Russia/Belarus is at war with Ukraine/NATO, with Ukraine being an important exporter of wheat and Belarus an important exporter of potash. Serious global food shortages are expected in 2023. If this isn't it, I don't know what is. (People from the future: Please feel free to chime in and let us know how things are going.)
We need a hybrid system, not one or the other. Build residential areas around their own communal food forests that can easily produce all the fruit and vegetables that they need. It does not have to be all forest either - it can have space for annual crops too. But use similar principles. Have a no-dig garden with zucchini, chard, potatoes, kale, and so on in a nice sunny glade, but have a shrub layer of currants around that and then small fruit and nut trees. Use climbing plants like runner beans and peas.. That would turn our vast urban deserts into productive farmland. Then we can turn our farmland back towards what it was - more hedgerows, more orchards, more nut and wood forests - surrounding smaller fields. We can eat a lot more rabbit and chicken (free range in these forests and edges) and less beef. But yes, we will still grow grain and oil crops, as well as have some cattle, sheep, goats, etc. Basically we need to convert lawns to farmland and people mowing their lawns to people picking their own crops in their own communal gardens. I say communal because that allows each family access to a much wider diversity than they would otherwise have access to. Basically, all the back gardens would connect to form a village community.
He doesn't name the bush. It's medlar tree. The fruit is picked while still hard, then literally rots and is good to eat. One of my fav, which I'd almost forgotten till last year. One of those forgotten trees.
Sorry. What I wrote on oaks is on, ways of foresting oaks thread. can be google with the words -rose macaskie oaks-. I wrote another thread on -ways of foresting junipers- which iin Spain, the juniperus thurifera, used to be grown, I imagine, for beams, all the houses were constructed with the trunks of these and sheep were grazed beneath the trees who eat the berries and forage the leaves a bit, they say there are "sweet", sabinas, though this is not the juniperus sabina. agri rose macaskie
The Szechuan pepper tree is interesting. What is the bush @3:38 where young leaves are good in salads? And the medley? tree @11:28 I can't make out what he says. The Closed Captions (CC) Translate Audio option is more comical than useful.
Tongue in cheek: typically indicates that one is joking.... The chips are not to be introduced into the soil, just a top layer. I am intending to get rock dust but so far haven't found a nursery that carries it..I've tried the nitrogen fixing plants but for the cost(2.00) for about 15 seeds, not sure how anyone can afford them. Reading two books, Gaias garden, Okla gardener' guide...I also enjoy the real life experience, hence the blogs.
omg, all this information is PRECIOUS! but sorry, i couldnt help but thinking... he REALLY looks like bruce dickinson.. he even talks like him! (its not a bad thing) :D thanks so much for the video!
Well, that's how nature works, but if you are having problems with pests such as fruit flies you should remove those fruits from the ground immediately. I know that you asked this 9 years ago, but maybe you didn't find an answer to it. Cheers.
you can get lucky and be living in an area where the mains company uses bio filters to clean the water. This means that, when they use this antifungal stuff, they kill off their own filters. In our area, they use UV-C light at the end to kill of fungi and bacteria. 'The problem' is that they have sweat water lobsters (European ones) in there pipes somewhere. Lobster in the water = safe to drink :)
So inspiring.. The Earth is abundantly rich, but man has created imaginary lack fed by ego, greed, fear, ignorant self-limitation. By the system human beings have dug and trapped themselves in a hole
@insipidtoast Ah! So you do know a thing or two about permaculture and weren't just dismissing it out of hand. Yes, I imagine it must be more difficult to find ways to make permaculture work in the dry areas. Please forgive me if this sounds like a silly question, but have you been in contact with Geoff Lawton? I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on what you're working on. As for the location of Martin Crawford's garden, I believe they mention the location in "Farm For the Future" part 4.
I've watched a number of forest garden videos and none of them actually show how much food can be grown/gathered in a certain number of square feet and how much time/energy it takes to harvest the food,what %of sugar,fat,protein they contain for a balanced diet.Until I see those figures I'll remain skeptical.If anyone knows of a legimate source for these numbers I'd appreciate a link.thanks.
Those numbers are just about impossible to conjure up because it varies immensely by climate and microclimate. The location of buildings and trees that may or may not be under your control can have a direct impact on it, both positively and negatively. If you list your climate (USDA hardiness zone, average summer high, lattitude, annual rainfall and seasonal monthly rain distribution and anything else you can think of) I could make an attempt, but really the only way to identify your yields is going to be to build one and find out. With a name like 59acres though, I have to be wondering if you really care about square feet production? I'm only on 5 acres and building a Food Forest to feed a family of 5 (in conjunction a kitchen veggie garden and livestock I'm integrating into the property.)
Ryder Hughes Yes I agree it is impossiable to conjure numbers which was my point all along.One often hears silly numbers like a permaculture system is 5 or 10 times more productive than a conventional system. I have never saw any data to back that up except from arm chair farmers.As for caring about production per sq ft you are wrong.I actually make my living...modest living, from 25,000 sq ft. of no spray veggies.I do own 59 acres though.
59acres Market Gardening? As to the general productivity of the system, I can personally attest that it is a good deal more productive than any single-layer gardens I've witnessed, but it's all about the diversity. A forest garden provides a ton of different yields, but it's going to be a ton of work to try to market modest quantities of so many different products, whereas I'm guessing your slightly-over-1/2-acre veggie plot is probably no more than 10-20 types of plants? It's also true that the levels of diversity in a forest garden tends to dramatically magnify the hassle of harvesting its yields (a point Crawford himself highlights in one of his books regarding forest gardens, providing some advice on reducing that additional labor requirement.) To be honest for market gardening I'd probably recommend a back2eden style woodchip garden rather than a forest garden. It creates a gardening environment which gets progressively richer over time, no till, reduced (and easier) weeding and simple harvesting. Both follow certain permaculture principles (No till, works with nature rather than against it, etc) but one sacrifices 3-dimensional production for simplicity.
59acres The only way to get exact data relative to your situation is to do your own experimentation. At least you have the spare land to do so with? Now, if you were to give me the climate information I mentioned in my first comment I could try to use what data I have from my own observations and experiments to derive some rough estimates for you. Granted if you're in an Arid climate anything I know from working in Western Washington is going to be useless.
We have been using more oil than gets found since about 1980. The fields that get found get smaller and smaller and production on existing fields slows down as they slowly empty. The effect is that we now consume oil at the rate at which it can be produced. As soon as the economy rebounds, you're going to see oil prices skyrocket well past what we saw at the end of 2008. The most optimistic predictions of peak oil production are 2020. Read up on the Hubbert curve. Cheap oil will run out soon.
He mentions, 'this tree provides leaves for salad'... But doesn't say what kind of tree it is... Then a bit later does it again, saying, 'here's a plant that the soviets bred or fruit and points at it (but doesn't say the name)..
You can also use dried sea water instead of rock dust. There is a product called sea-90 that is supposed to be the best. You can just get sea water and dilute it and add that. Diluted urine is somewhat similar. Very few nurseries carry rock dust. It is a new idea. You can get rock dust from certain industrial sites. Just ask and pull up with a truck and haul it off. It is literal dust from drilling rocks. All the rocks are different and you'd have to research the composition of what's available
@bobbygnosis Well, it's not necessarily that carbon is "evil" and pollutes the air, so much as it is a basic building block of plant material (indeed all life). By losing carbon, you are losing fertility from the soil as all plants need a certain ratio of carbon:nitrogen in order to form cells...
I want to study agronomy or animal husbandry and my ideas are total friendly environmentally aimed purposes. Staple crops, crops used entire year like summer barley and than rye or quinoa, maximum yield for eco future purpose without starvation and more life and future for our children, less meat coz meat needs so much resource and FCR is high for cattle and sheep. Eggs for meat, goats for milk, fish alternative meat too. We have land equal to 30 % so why not considering water as future main feeding resource - 70% and there is not land. There is km down from the peak of the water to the deep sea so we can husbandry so much more meat. Not so much corn, not so much wheat, more forests.
I believe Adam and Eve started in a garden....so it makes sense to plant another one that sustains life....a natural habitat for man and all other living things .
I don't think you understand what tongue-in-cheek means. The wood chips should be excellent, though they take at least 3 years to become soil. Have you added rockdust, mycorrhiza, and mushrooms to everything you're composting? Rock dust doesn't burn crops, so you can actually grow in 50% rock dust/50% compost. I know certain insects help break down the wood chips, but I'm not sure which are best. You may also want to grow nitrogen fixing plants at first. Read books instead of forum posts.
The downside of these videos is that it presents a food forest as a place to go out and hunt down a few bamboo shoots to nibble on. A hobby garden, not a productive system. Part of that is the video design, which has him standing in front of trees with no food on them, and part is the garden design, which has a huge sichuan peppercorn rather than a much smaller one and perhaps a big apple tree taking up the space. I agree with the general approach, but compare to Charles Dowding's no dig series to compare the productivity (with no oil use). A hybrid system is needed with more production. And it is quite possible. Add some runner beans, which fix nitrogen. Chop down the Chinese Dogwood and put in a hazel coppice or 3 apple trees and a pear.
This is just an introductory video - he was trying to pique people's interest in the unusual places one can find food in a food forest. His is quite a large, 2 acre 20-year-old garden filled with plenty of apples and other fruit trees, and I"m sure plenty of nitrogen fixers. Look here for more details: garnense.com/en/inspiration/depth-forest-garden-pioneer-martin-crawford
If you follow the news a lot as i do, then you never stop hearing, in the last few years, of new petrol or gas feilds. Australia has found new ones, they expect to find petrol in the South China Sea, hence the fights over some islands there. Poland is begining fracking, the North Americans hope to out produce saudi arabians by fracking and many hope to find petrol or gas in the artic. Depressing what! No immediate fuel crisis in sight to force us to be ecological. rose macaskie madrid
Presumptuous? Not at all..as to your suggestions...let's see.... this winter, I've cut swalls, hauled in 5 tons of manure, 2 tons of wood chips, started a compost pile, created a hugukulture bed, laid out irrigation lines, joined a couple of gardening blogs online...as explained earlier, I was frustrated that the former land owners did Nothing but destroy my property... I guess tongue & cheek, doesn't translate to everyone..
He gives a good "why" for food forests but then he points out a plant that is "good for salad" or "one of the best for food" and does not identify the plants. Nice voice, probably very knowledgeable; needs to work on imparting that knowledge.
You may want to watch a few more videos on forest gardens so you can make a much better one. There is much more to the concept than diversity. It's about permaculture and maximizing yield per amount of effort. Diversity is merely a means to do this, but not the point.
Make sure to never use tap water on your fields or compost. Tap water has antifungal and antimicrobial agents in it. This will obviously be bad. Also, you should never use commercial animal manure again since it is contaminated with chemicals they give the animals. Also, make sure to compost the manure before growing in it. One day, all this composted material will be your soil. You can keep mulching with wood chips, which will gradually become humus. The best possible thing to grow in is humus
But what about those plants that need lots of sunlight. Wouldn’t a forest block sunlight for smaller crops or small fruit trees. This makes no sense. Flowering trees sure. But crop plants. Really?
i eat green potatoes and the poison thing is a load of crap.... i eat an entirely raw diet and also handfuls of soils and sand and as such have many enzymes in my gut that the untrained stomach doesn't..... It is a transition, but very worth it
sounds like frustration due to your waste of an education and your unwillingness to relearn. Besides, this method is not meant for commercial purposes. The point is for everyone to have one of these instead of lawns. I don't know why you would be angry about him growing bamboo. Chinese people have been cultivating it for thousands of years with no problems. You are assuming that he's stupid despite his advancement of human knowledge. Shame on you.
You are very presumptuous aren't you. In fact, the concept of a forest garden is meant to address this very problem. This video is not in depth at all. This is a very much studied subject with much more information than what is said in a 13 minute video. You should be composting all organic waste your land and yourself produce. You need to set up irrigation ditches to catch water. You need to bury branches to capture water. You need to mulch the soil. Do some research on this topic...
Hi. An incredible variety of plants, beautiful garden. In Spain they have live agro pastoral traditions, I have writen about it in the permaculture forums of paul wheaton in the forestry part under oaks and junipers. Come to spain and see it. I saw a You Tube video of harvesting bamboo shoots in Japan and they cut them from below the ground and before they got as high as you do. I have heard that bamboo shoots contain cynide as do cherry pips so need cooking. My medlar's full of canker.rose.
Very nice video. I'm starting my food forest next year, can't wait !
Thank you for all the infos
We really do need more people like you in the World. Such a fascinating video and such a beautiful forest garden, thank you.
To be fair, this is an indigenous practice and colonizers knew that this would prevent labor necessity. It's not profitable for people to lack dependence for food
Learned about Permaculture many years ago. We just bought 36 acres and are looking to start about an acre of Food Forest; however, the deer are more plentiful than the plants here : ). I know I can plant deer food plants but they will eat them and then eat everything else as well. How does this guy keep the critters out??
We take a lot of inspiration from Martin Crawfords material and we are always trying encourage others to use components of the forest in their own gardens. Great video, thank you for making all the way back in 2010.
This man is was/is so far ahead of the curve.
I did not realize this is what I've been doing. I was trying to plant a diverse garden for a variety of critters as well as beauty. Glad for your info.
Beautiful forest garden. I strive to create one as beautiful as your's one day Mr. Crawford. Once I get a piece of land I'll create a similar Eden for all life that enters. Stay healthy.
I like the way you dream friend
Thanks for the walk through. Wow!!! :D
Thank you Martin and nuprojectvideos. Inspiring viewing. We have a vision to make community forest gardens in Sompting as well as creating a 20 acre agroforestry project, so seeing a mature garden is a great vision!
the more there is the more beautiful, why forests are so beautiful, thank you
this guy's a genius
Great finally someon who is an expert on plants. Bought your book its great. I teach in schools with it.
Superb! Great information. More video please.
Hi. An incredible variety of plants, beautiful garden.
In Spain they have live agro pastoral traditions, I have writen about it in the permaculture forums of paul wheaton in the forestry part under oaks and junipers. Come to spain and see it.
I saw a You Tube video of harvesting bamboo shoots in Japan and they cut them from below the ground and before they got as high as you do. I have heard that bamboo shoots contain cynide as do cherry pips so need cooking. My medlar's full of canker.rose.
Oh my goodness! This video is so amazing and beautiful. This is definitely something I am working toward. :) :)
Love to all!
We need this right nowww
Very interesting video, and a nice introduction into forest gardening. I am also one of them who have been doing this without knowing the academic term. Anyone who have tried forest gardening on rather small plots in H3? I have groundcovers (strawberry and blueberry), lots of raspberry's and blackberry's, junipers, some birches, also lots of ribes. I am trying oregano and such, too, but it is cold up here in Norway. :) How do antifungals discriminate good from bad?
thanks for the garden tour, an inspiration for sure
Thank you!!
Thank you for the praise. rose
i attended your recent tour and learn,t so much thank you very much!!!
I love Martin's book, but I wanted to point out a mistake in his design. He plants taller trees in the East than he does in the West. He says plants prefer to do photosynthesis in the afternoon, and that it's better to protect them from the sun hitting the frozen part of the leaves in winter/spring in the morning. That's actually the opposite. Plants do much more photosynthesis in the morning overall. First, they breathe during the night, so produce CO2. So in the morning you actually have an increased CO2 concentration in the air, and since CO2 is heavier than air, it stays around the ground. So plants will use that CO2 in the morning to do a lot of photosynthesis. Moreover, in late Spring/Summer, plants are a lot less active in the afternoon, they tend to "rest" because it's too hot. And in Winter/Spring there's not a lot of chances of damage from the sun hitting frozen leaves, as most European plants are deciduous anyway. That's just one design error I needed to point out.
A+
Interesting!
Thank you from Brasil. I loved those videos.
Excellent, thanks.
ONE LOVE ;]
nature nature nature love her
Anyone watching this in 2020? Covid-19 could be the crisis he's talking about
Yup!!
here in my neck of the woods ( midwest USA ), garden centers sold out of a lot of product early on in the pandemic.
Hi from 2022!
Good news: The pandemic is more or less over. For now.
Bad news: Where shall I begin. There's a nitrogen fertilizer shortage due to soaring gas prices. On top of this, Russia/Belarus is at war with Ukraine/NATO, with Ukraine being an important exporter of wheat and Belarus an important exporter of potash. Serious global food shortages are expected in 2023. If this isn't it, I don't know what is.
(People from the future: Please feel free to chime in and let us know how things are going.)
@@ximono Sorry, pandemic is so not over.
@@llcooksey The aftermath is not over, that's true.
Genius. Thank you.
Thank you 😊
We need a hybrid system, not one or the other. Build residential areas around their own communal food forests that can easily produce all the fruit and vegetables that they need. It does not have to be all forest either - it can have space for annual crops too. But use similar principles. Have a no-dig garden with zucchini, chard, potatoes, kale, and so on in a nice sunny glade, but have a shrub layer of currants around that and then small fruit and nut trees. Use climbing plants like runner beans and peas..
That would turn our vast urban deserts into productive farmland. Then we can turn our farmland back towards what it was - more hedgerows, more orchards, more nut and wood forests - surrounding smaller fields.
We can eat a lot more rabbit and chicken (free range in these forests and edges) and less beef. But yes, we will still grow grain and oil crops, as well as have some cattle, sheep, goats, etc.
Basically we need to convert lawns to farmland and people mowing their lawns to people picking their own crops in their own communal gardens. I say communal because that allows each family access to a much wider diversity than they would otherwise have access to. Basically, all the back gardens would connect to form a village community.
If only. It's a beautiful dream though.
What an inspiration . How big is your forest garden
Amazing
Was that a Linden tree leaf you pointed to for the main salad leaf? @3:40ish?
10:39 "my estimate is that you could certainly feed four to five people of an acre of forest garden"
That's not enough
this is great
Good video thanks
4-5 people per acre, that’s impressive.
He doesn't name the bush. It's medlar tree. The fruit is picked while still hard, then literally rots and is good to eat. One of my fav, which I'd almost forgotten till last year. One of those forgotten trees.
Sorry. What I wrote on oaks is on, ways of foresting oaks thread. can be google with the words -rose macaskie oaks-. I wrote another thread on -ways of foresting junipers- which iin Spain, the juniperus thurifera, used to be grown, I imagine, for beams, all the houses were constructed with the trunks of these and sheep were grazed beneath the trees who eat the berries and forage the leaves a bit, they say there are "sweet", sabinas, though this is not the juniperus sabina. agri rose macaskie
The Szechuan pepper tree is interesting. What is the bush @3:38 where young leaves are good in salads? And the medley? tree @11:28 I can't make out what he says. The Closed Captions (CC) Translate Audio option is more comical than useful.
I have the same name as Martin Crawford. That's why I'm here.
Bee plants can be a harvest - if you put hives in.
Sepp holzer says fruit tree are also a great source for bee food and you get a harvest of fruit out of nearly every year for decades to come.
In China and HK, they use bamboo for the scaffolding to build their modern skyscrapers.
Tongue in cheek: typically indicates that one is joking....
The chips are not to be introduced into the soil, just a top layer.
I am intending to get rock dust but so far haven't found a nursery that carries it..I've tried the nitrogen fixing plants but for the cost(2.00) for about 15 seeds, not sure how anyone can afford them.
Reading two books, Gaias garden, Okla gardener' guide...I also enjoy the real life experience, hence the blogs.
What is the name of the plant you say is your salad leaf?
omg, all this information is PRECIOUS! but sorry, i couldnt help but thinking... he REALLY looks like bruce dickinson.. he even talks like him! (its not a bad thing) :D
thanks so much for the video!
What do you do with all the excess fruit that you grow? Does it mostly just fall to the ground and rot?
Well, that's how nature works, but if you are having problems with pests such as fruit flies you should remove those fruits from the ground immediately. I know that you asked this 9 years ago, but maybe you didn't find an answer to it. Cheers.
@insipidtoast You'd be surprised. Watch "Greening the Desert" with Geoff Lawton. Also available on TH-cam.
you can get lucky and be living in an area where the mains company uses bio filters to clean the water. This means that, when they use this antifungal stuff, they kill off their own filters.
In our area, they use UV-C light at the end to kill of fungi and bacteria.
'The problem' is that they have sweat water lobsters (European ones) in there pipes somewhere. Lobster in the water = safe to drink :)
Muy amable si traduce en español gracias.
I found a topic called "Oaks and Juniper" but I don't see your post there
So inspiring.. The Earth is abundantly rich, but man has created imaginary lack fed by ego, greed, fear, ignorant self-limitation. By the system human beings have dug and trapped themselves in a hole
3:50 what was that plant called that was bread by the ussr ?
What is the fruit tree he was admiring above the mints?
I think it's medlar (Mespilus germanica)
How are foods harvested?
In a basket!! Join your local garden group perhaps?
3:35 Does anyone know what the salad leaf he mentions is?
Looked like a vine. Maybe Hablitza tammoides (maybe spelled wrong!)
@@aupanner20 thanks. I'll look it up. I wondered if it was a lime tree.
How much would it cost to grow all this not including land price?
Hummm....well I'd be impressed if someone could do this here in Oklahoma ....
@insipidtoast Ah! So you do know a thing or two about permaculture and weren't just dismissing it out of hand. Yes, I imagine it must be more difficult to find ways to make permaculture work in the dry areas. Please forgive me if this sounds like a silly question, but have you been in contact with Geoff Lawton? I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on what you're working on. As for the location of Martin Crawford's garden, I believe they mention the location in "Farm For the Future" part 4.
I've watched a number of forest garden videos and none of them actually show how much food can be grown/gathered in a certain number of square feet and how much time/energy it takes to harvest the food,what %of sugar,fat,protein they contain for a balanced diet.Until I see those figures I'll remain skeptical.If anyone knows of a legimate source for these numbers I'd appreciate a link.thanks.
Those numbers are just about impossible to conjure up because it varies immensely by climate and microclimate. The location of buildings and trees that may or may not be under your control can have a direct impact on it, both positively and negatively.
If you list your climate (USDA hardiness zone, average summer high, lattitude, annual rainfall and seasonal monthly rain distribution and anything else you can think of) I could make an attempt, but really the only way to identify your yields is going to be to build one and find out.
With a name like 59acres though, I have to be wondering if you really care about square feet production? I'm only on 5 acres and building a Food Forest to feed a family of 5 (in conjunction a kitchen veggie garden and livestock I'm integrating into the property.)
Ryder Hughes Yes I agree it is impossiable to conjure numbers which was my point all along.One often hears silly numbers like a permaculture system is 5 or 10 times more productive than a conventional system. I have never saw any data to back that up except from arm chair farmers.As for caring about production per sq ft you are wrong.I actually make my living...modest living, from 25,000 sq ft. of no spray veggies.I do own 59 acres though.
59acres Market Gardening?
As to the general productivity of the system, I can personally attest that it is a good deal more productive than any single-layer gardens I've witnessed, but it's all about the diversity. A forest garden provides a ton of different yields, but it's going to be a ton of work to try to market modest quantities of so many different products, whereas I'm guessing your slightly-over-1/2-acre veggie plot is probably no more than 10-20 types of plants?
It's also true that the levels of diversity in a forest garden tends to dramatically magnify the hassle of harvesting its yields (a point Crawford himself highlights in one of his books regarding forest gardens, providing some advice on reducing that additional labor requirement.)
To be honest for market gardening I'd probably recommend a back2eden style woodchip garden rather than a forest garden. It creates a gardening environment which gets progressively richer over time, no till, reduced (and easier) weeding and simple harvesting.
Both follow certain permaculture principles (No till, works with nature rather than against it, etc) but one sacrifices 3-dimensional production for simplicity.
Ryder Hughes Thank you for your opinion .I was looking for actual data though.
59acres The only way to get exact data relative to your situation is to do your own experimentation. At least you have the spare land to do so with?
Now, if you were to give me the climate information I mentioned in my first comment I could try to use what data I have from my own observations and experiments to derive some rough estimates for you. Granted if you're in an Arid climate anything I know from working in Western Washington is going to be useless.
❤
We have been using more oil than gets found since about 1980. The fields that get found get smaller and smaller and production on existing fields slows down as they slowly empty.
The effect is that we now consume oil at the rate at which it can be produced.
As soon as the economy rebounds, you're going to see oil prices skyrocket well past what we saw at the end of 2008.
The most optimistic predictions of peak oil production are 2020. Read up on the Hubbert curve. Cheap oil will run out soon.
💚🙏
I meant to say above, the great mycologist Paul Stamets, "easy person to google", but I forgot to put in his name. agri rose macaskie
He mentions, 'this tree provides leaves for salad'... But doesn't say what kind of tree it is... Then a bit later does it again, saying, 'here's a plant that the soviets bred or fruit and points at it (but doesn't say the name)..
You can also use dried sea water instead of rock dust. There is a product called sea-90 that is supposed to be the best. You can just get sea water and dilute it and add that. Diluted urine is somewhat similar. Very few nurseries carry rock dust. It is a new idea. You can get rock dust from certain industrial sites. Just ask and pull up with a truck and haul it off. It is literal dust from drilling rocks. All the rocks are different and you'd have to research the composition of what's available
On the contrary, the Powers that be are opposed to Self sustainability
There is one dislike for every comment, and reply. I wonder if some individual did them all... Put a like on all to balance it back up.
@bobbygnosis Well, it's not necessarily that carbon is "evil" and pollutes the air, so much as it is a basic building block of plant material (indeed all life). By losing carbon, you are losing fertility from the soil as all plants need a certain ratio of carbon:nitrogen in order to form cells...
Horticulturists always talk about the PH values of the soil. Is it worth the trouble?
No, don't worry about PH. We do natural gardening mimicking the forest floor and the soil always balances out to PH 7 once the soil life is happy. :D
October 2022- everyone needs a food forrest asap...
I want to study agronomy or animal husbandry and my ideas are total friendly environmentally aimed purposes. Staple crops, crops used entire year like summer barley and than rye or quinoa, maximum yield for eco future purpose without starvation and more life and future for our children, less meat coz meat needs so much resource and FCR is high for cattle and sheep. Eggs for meat, goats for milk, fish alternative meat too. We have land equal to 30 % so why not considering water as future main feeding resource - 70% and there is not land. There is km down from the peak of the water to the deep sea so we can husbandry so much more meat. Not so much corn, not so much wheat, more forests.
Don't hold your breath waiting for governments to get on board with this....
Considering succession as a dimension of time, I prefer to think of a forest garden as a 4-dimensional garden as opposed to 3-dimensional.
good video.. but i wldnt worry about carbon in the air lol
I believe Adam and Eve started in a garden....so it makes sense to plant another one that sustains life....a natural habitat for man and all other living things .
@sukumvit Logic hurts the joke.
I now wince that I'm such a negative Nancy.
I offer what well wishes I can given the context.
The indigenous taught our ancestors this and they refused it.
I don't think you understand what tongue-in-cheek means.
The wood chips should be excellent, though they take at least 3 years to become soil. Have you added rockdust, mycorrhiza, and mushrooms to everything you're composting? Rock dust doesn't burn crops, so you can actually grow in 50% rock dust/50% compost. I know certain insects help break down the wood chips, but I'm not sure which are best. You may also want to grow nitrogen fixing plants at first. Read books instead of forum posts.
Great, I've got plenty of concrete sites around here that I could hit.....saw a guy on youtube using urine on his plants with great success.....thanks
The downside of these videos is that it presents a food forest as a place to go out and hunt down a few bamboo shoots to nibble on. A hobby garden, not a productive system. Part of that is the video design, which has him standing in front of trees with no food on them, and part is the garden design, which has a huge sichuan peppercorn rather than a much smaller one and perhaps a big apple tree taking up the space. I agree with the general approach, but compare to Charles Dowding's no dig series to compare the productivity (with no oil use). A hybrid system is needed with more production. And it is quite possible. Add some runner beans, which fix nitrogen. Chop down the Chinese Dogwood and put in a hazel coppice or 3 apple trees and a pear.
This is just an introductory video - he was trying to pique people's interest in the unusual places one can find food in a food forest. His is quite a large, 2 acre 20-year-old garden filled with plenty of apples and other fruit trees, and I"m sure plenty of nitrogen fixers. Look here for more details: garnense.com/en/inspiration/depth-forest-garden-pioneer-martin-crawford
it's the destruction of microorganisms from digging that is the issue, not carbon release
If you follow the news a lot as i do, then you never stop hearing, in the last few years, of new petrol or gas feilds. Australia has found new ones, they expect to find petrol in the South China Sea, hence the fights over some islands there. Poland is begining fracking, the North Americans hope to out produce saudi arabians by fracking and many hope to find petrol or gas in the artic. Depressing what! No immediate fuel crisis in sight to force us to be ecological. rose macaskie madrid
Presumptuous? Not at all..as to your suggestions...let's see.... this winter, I've cut swalls, hauled in 5 tons of manure, 2 tons of wood chips, started a compost pile, created a hugukulture bed, laid out irrigation lines, joined a couple of gardening blogs online...as explained earlier, I was frustrated that the former land owners did Nothing but destroy my property... I guess tongue & cheek, doesn't translate to everyone..
how many vegetables do ppl actually eat? duh
Not enough for their health
Hihihihihhi... the humans are from the forest!!!... may be they down from a three... then all is right...By
He gives a good "why" for food forests but then he points out a plant that is "good for salad" or "one of the best for food" and does not identify the plants. Nice voice, probably very knowledgeable; needs to work on imparting that knowledge.
I suspect that had a lot to do with the editing.
Get his book, full of very detailed information. Very worth it.
It looked like a vine. Maybe Hablitza tamoides?
it should be possible to see who voted what on a video.
Wtf 3 dislikes :s
You may want to watch a few more videos on forest gardens so you can make a much better one. There is much more to the concept than diversity. It's about permaculture and maximizing yield per amount of effort. Diversity is merely a means to do this, but not the point.
Make sure to never use tap water on your fields or compost. Tap water has antifungal and antimicrobial agents in it. This will obviously be bad. Also, you should never use commercial animal manure again since it is contaminated with chemicals they give the animals. Also, make sure to compost the manure before growing in it. One day, all this composted material will be your soil. You can keep mulching with wood chips, which will gradually become humus. The best possible thing to grow in is humus
But what about those plants that need lots of sunlight. Wouldn’t a forest block sunlight for smaller crops or small fruit trees. This makes no sense. Flowering trees sure. But crop plants. Really?
a three dimensional garden .. starting off with this statement is not good ^_^ but i'm going to continue to watch the rest.
11 years later everything is true except for "the powers that be" having anything to do with it. We never needed those guys in the first place.
i eat green potatoes and the poison thing is a load of crap....
i eat an entirely raw diet and also handfuls of soils and sand and as such have many enzymes in my gut that the untrained stomach doesn't.....
It is a transition, but very worth it
Do you have any literature on the whole enzyme-loading gut transition you can recommend?
sounds like frustration due to your waste of an education and your unwillingness to relearn. Besides, this method is not meant for commercial purposes. The point is for everyone to have one of these instead of lawns. I don't know why you would be angry about him growing bamboo. Chinese people have been cultivating it for thousands of years with no problems. You are assuming that he's stupid despite his advancement of human knowledge. Shame on you.
You are very presumptuous aren't you. In fact, the concept of a forest garden is meant to address this very problem. This video is not in depth at all. This is a very much studied subject with much more information than what is said in a 13 minute video. You should be composting all organic waste your land and yourself produce. You need to set up irrigation ditches to catch water. You need to bury branches to capture water. You need to mulch the soil. Do some research on this topic...
Such a noisy forest.
Yeah, carbon is evil.
Let's make it illegal. Like we did with marajuana.
Good video otherwise. I'd like to see more.
Less chat and more instruction
Hi. An incredible variety of plants, beautiful garden.
In Spain they have live agro pastoral traditions, I have writen about it in the permaculture forums of paul wheaton in the forestry part under oaks and junipers. Come to spain and see it.
I saw a You Tube video of harvesting bamboo shoots in Japan and they cut them from below the ground and before they got as high as you do. I have heard that bamboo shoots contain cynide as do cherry pips so need cooking. My medlar's full of canker.rose.