When I first started 40K, my first two games were against a guy who allied a Knight Paladin with his space marines. He played Ironstorm Spearhead against my index Orks… in 1,000 point games. He had the balls to complain about how many more units I had than him before shooting me off the board in 2 turns in both games. I almost quit the hobby entirely and I’ve hated Knights and Space Marines ever since.
people who bring titanic units in 1000pt games know exactly what they are doing and should feel bad, well done for keeping going, it is actually fun lol
As someone who runs alot of crusher stampede tyranids with T9-12 monsters it’s not the strength of weapons that’s the killer it’s the 2 and 3 flat damage. Even wounding on 5s if it does 3 damage that’s a dead monster pretty quick
They're an all vehicle army in an infantry based war game, it's pretty straightforward. I think you need to remember that in a largely casual game a lot of people's negative personal experience will be running into a bunch of wardogs with a sub optimal list and removing a lot of their models with minimal interaction.
I love Knights!! My next army will be Knights. They look cool as f***, and any big points/rule changes mean gaining/losing only a single model, what's not to love?! My last army a points/rule change meant practically rebuilding the entire list and was a royal ballache.
When i first started playing 4k in the early 80's it was a infantry game with chaos monsters based off the franchise film 🎥 Aliens & had small sentinel robots with different weapons that you could use in Space Hulk borad game's 😊 but over time passing you have big stumpy Robert annihilating every thing in it's parth before you get to shoot back at it , etc , and lastly it has become so grim dark that humanity has to rely on super soldiers to save them + not fight back on there neas praying to the emperor for help as they about to lose their heads, etc , more like horror grim , & miss the good old days of infantry fun 😢
Its the rules making big knights inferior to 3ish armigers for the same points cost. Im glad my armigers are good but man I wish the big knights would lose just 30-40 points each.
Missed the stream but as always you need to look into the treatment 10th has given vehicles higher toughness and specially tailored weapons needed to go into them, more for me it's just the lack of variety in units, i need variety in my life 2 or 3 units in an army is just flat boring to watch.
Knights are overpowered against most armies. You need heavy anti-tank and even then the invul save keeps them going. Likewise, once they hit combat you are screwed. You can't even ignore them to focus on the objectives because they will either shoot or assault you off of them. If they aren't going to be increased in points then they need a real nerf/re-balance.
As someone who's mained Imperial Knights since about October 2023, everyone saying Knights are difficult to face or hard to kill are just flat wrong. If you walk anything at all, including chaff, into a Knight it will die. 3+ save and no invuln. Anti tank shooting is a trap because we have an invuln. Just walk anything at all into close combat and every knight will fold in a single turn more often than not. People see Knights and think they have to avoid them, but the secret is no Knight player wants to be up close because our close combat is atrocious.
They were horrible to play they had a hard time scoring secondaries and holding objectives needed a upgrade hopefully the new missions may help make them good again
A lot of people just want to win, and Knights present a challenge for unprepared opponents. It’s easier to complain on the internet instead of learning how to deal with them. Whether they should be in the game or not is purely subjective, but they’re not strong enough to cry over.
Knights are just too good at everything which is why I really dislike them. Fast, good OC, good shooting, good melee, high toughness, good saves. The vast majority of factions have positives and negatives, but Knights don’t really have any negatives. Also, if you are playing a normal list, versing knights means half your units are basically useless against them which is a bit of a feel bad. Don’t get me wrong, Knights are cool and fit into 40K, but they should be a centre piece, not a faction. P.s. I agree with you about tank spam lists too! If I played someone who every game played nothing but big scary tanks and big dreadnoughts, I’d think that would be a bit of a dick move on their part. However, they could take some different units to make things more fun… Knights are an army of nothing but big scary tanks and big dreadnoughts equivalents.
Knights have no negatives lol? They die to melee very fast since their invul is shooting only. Practically every army has lethal hits or twin linked which deals with knights very fast. A 3+ save may seem nice but even Ap can get pot shots in. Knights have a very low model count comparatively and therefor are very susceptible to screens. Knights are noob stompers if you think they are OP you are just bad tbh.
@@calebsulkin8740 I never said they were OP. Just that they really aren’t fun to play against. To be completely honest, I couldn’t care less about a factions win rates of if things are overpowered or underpowered, as long as they make for a fun game. Also, a knight with 18 S9 AP3 D2 attacks hitting on 2+ sounds like it would be pretty decent in melee to me.
@@bear4278 I'll address what you said one at a time. "I never said they were OP!"- What you said was "but Knights don’t really have any negatives." and that is really dumb so I decided to list some reasons why in my response above. "a knight with 18 S9 AP3 D2 attacks hitting on 2+ sounds like it would be pretty decent in melee to me." You are cherry picking. Please read what I said. I was specifically talking about the knights having no melee invul making them prone to more damage in melee. This doesnt mean I think there is not a single knight with good melee output in the whole index. Look bro im not trying to convice you to have fun into knights if you dont like them you dont like them. I just want to let you know that you can beat knights and they arent as bad as they are cracked up to be.
@@calebsulkin8740 ok, fine. So you’re saying their drawback is that they don’t get an invuln in combat. Seeing as like 95% of models in the game don’t get any invuln full stop, I hardly see that as a downside. Regarding lethal hits and high AP, that effect everyone else pretty much just as much as it effects knights. On a 3+ save not being great, it’s a better save than probably half the units in the game. For another example of knights having decent melee, Armiger warglaves get 8 attacks, S8 AP2 D1 or 4 attacks S10 AP3 D3 (along with their 24” FU melta) which is pretty good and people always spam those things so that is hardly a “cherry picked” unit. So yeah, I don’t think knights really have much of a down side but I’ll agree to disagree.
@@bear4278 “but most units don’t have and invul!” But look at the points you are paying for them. If I am paying 400 minimum for a knight and I get charged by eightbound I’m in for a bad time they will easily get 350 points of dmg even if they don’t kill me. That is unfortunate for the price I’m paying. Another thing is what I have access to as an army. I need to move my knights to the center to score objectives and they die fairly fast in melee. “Lethal hits and Ap affect everyone” but it’s better against knights. Infants are harder to kill in this game than vehicles due to damage not spilling over. This means a damage 3 weapons into a knight I will take all of them damage where most armies like guardsmen it won’t matter as much. This means we need high toughness to get around this inherent downside. This goes for the 3+ save as well I’m paying 400 points for the unit remember that. It’s not fair to say “Knights are t12 22 wounds! That’s more than my stuff!” Because Im paying way more than you are. As for the melee please bro I’m not saying that knights have only bad offensive profiles I was only talking taking damage. They are build to lose to melee armies in melee and beat shooting armies in melee nothing insane.
![[LIVE] BABYMONSTER(베이비몬스터) - DRIP | 두시탈출 컬투쇼](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UG05pxLGwzc/mqdefault.jpg)
Could you imagine rolling into a new player with 13 baby knights and convincing them this is a fun hobby?
When I first started 40K, my first two games were against a guy who allied a Knight Paladin with his space marines. He played Ironstorm Spearhead against my index Orks… in 1,000 point games. He had the balls to complain about how many more units I had than him before shooting me off the board in 2 turns in both games. I almost quit the hobby entirely and I’ve hated Knights and Space Marines ever since.
people who bring titanic units in 1000pt games know exactly what they are doing and should feel bad, well done for keeping going, it is actually fun lol
As someone who runs alot of crusher stampede tyranids with T9-12 monsters it’s not the strength of weapons that’s the killer it’s the 2 and 3 flat damage. Even wounding on 5s if it does 3 damage that’s a dead monster pretty quick
They're an all vehicle army in an infantry based war game, it's pretty straightforward. I think you need to remember that in a largely casual game a lot of people's negative personal experience will be running into a bunch of wardogs with a sub optimal list and removing a lot of their models with minimal interaction.
I love Knights!! My next army will be Knights. They look cool as f***, and any big points/rule changes mean gaining/losing only a single model, what's not to love?! My last army a points/rule change meant practically rebuilding the entire list and was a royal ballache.
Never played against knights, but models are cool. I think being able to put skitarii or guard with them might be interesting.
Also to MD in London road, Brighton is bloody awful because by the time i got my food it was half warm for me/son last month, yuck 🤢
When i first started playing 4k in the early 80's it was a infantry game with chaos monsters based off the franchise film 🎥 Aliens & had small sentinel robots with different weapons that you could use in Space Hulk borad game's 😊 but over time passing you have big stumpy Robert annihilating every thing in it's parth before you get to shoot back at it , etc , and lastly it has become so grim dark that humanity has to rely on super soldiers to save them + not fight back on there neas praying to the emperor for help as they about to lose their heads, etc , more like horror grim , & miss the good old days of infantry fun 😢
Ion Shield
The good old days when knights were titans and demons were part of chaos
The Momitorum
Its the rules making big knights inferior to 3ish armigers for the same points cost. Im glad my armigers are good but man I wish the big knights would lose just 30-40 points each.
Butter is the best
Missed the stream but as always you need to look into the treatment 10th has given vehicles higher toughness and specially tailored weapons needed to go into them, more for me it's just the lack of variety in units, i need variety in my life 2 or 3 units in an army is just flat boring to watch.
Knights are overpowered against most armies. You need heavy anti-tank and even then the invul save keeps them going. Likewise, once they hit combat you are screwed. You can't even ignore them to focus on the objectives because they will either shoot or assault you off of them. If they aren't going to be increased in points then they need a real nerf/re-balance.
As someone who's mained Imperial Knights since about October 2023, everyone saying Knights are difficult to face or hard to kill are just flat wrong. If you walk anything at all, including chaff, into a Knight it will die. 3+ save and no invuln. Anti tank shooting is a trap because we have an invuln. Just walk anything at all into close combat and every knight will fold in a single turn more often than not. People see Knights and think they have to avoid them, but the secret is no Knight player wants to be up close because our close combat is atrocious.
How are Aggressors then against knights? 6 Aggreessors sound like they could be a challenge for them.
They were horrible to play they had a hard time scoring secondaries and holding objectives needed a upgrade hopefully the new missions may help make them good again
A lot of people just want to win, and Knights present a challenge for unprepared opponents. It’s easier to complain on the internet instead of learning how to deal with them. Whether they should be in the game or not is purely subjective, but they’re not strong enough to cry over.
Oh I don’t know maybe army wide fnp rolls that make them near impossible to kill….
I find games against knights boring and just not fun. Other armies are so much more dynamic and fun to play against.
So it's good your win ratio is positively impacted when playing them then!
Knights are just too good at everything which is why I really dislike them. Fast, good OC, good shooting, good melee, high toughness, good saves.
The vast majority of factions have positives and negatives, but Knights don’t really have any negatives.
Also, if you are playing a normal list, versing knights means half your units are basically useless against them which is a bit of a feel bad.
Don’t get me wrong, Knights are cool and fit into 40K, but they should be a centre piece, not a faction.
P.s. I agree with you about tank spam lists too! If I played someone who every game played nothing but big scary tanks and big dreadnoughts, I’d think that would be a bit of a dick move on their part. However, they could take some different units to make things more fun… Knights are an army of nothing but big scary tanks and big dreadnoughts equivalents.
Knights have no negatives lol? They die to melee very fast since their invul is shooting only. Practically every army has lethal hits or twin linked which deals with knights very fast. A 3+ save may seem nice but even Ap can get pot shots in. Knights have a very low model count comparatively and therefor are very susceptible to screens. Knights are noob stompers if you think they are OP you are just bad tbh.
@@calebsulkin8740 I never said they were OP. Just that they really aren’t fun to play against.
To be completely honest, I couldn’t care less about a factions win rates of if things are overpowered or underpowered, as long as they make for a fun game.
Also, a knight with 18 S9 AP3 D2 attacks hitting on 2+ sounds like it would be pretty decent in melee to me.
@@bear4278 I'll address what you said one at a time.
"I never said they were OP!"- What you said was "but Knights don’t really have any negatives." and that is really dumb so I decided to list some reasons why in my response above.
"a knight with 18 S9 AP3 D2 attacks hitting on 2+ sounds like it would be pretty decent in melee to me."
You are cherry picking. Please read what I said. I was specifically talking about the knights having no melee invul making them prone to more damage in melee. This doesnt mean I think there is not a single knight with good melee output in the whole index.
Look bro im not trying to convice you to have fun into knights if you dont like them you dont like them. I just want to let you know that you can beat knights and they arent as bad as they are cracked up to be.
@@calebsulkin8740 ok, fine. So you’re saying their drawback is that they don’t get an invuln in combat. Seeing as like 95% of models in the game don’t get any invuln full stop, I hardly see that as a downside.
Regarding lethal hits and high AP, that effect everyone else pretty much just as much as it effects knights.
On a 3+ save not being great, it’s a better save than probably half the units in the game.
For another example of knights having decent melee, Armiger warglaves get 8 attacks, S8 AP2 D1 or 4 attacks S10 AP3 D3 (along with their 24” FU melta) which is pretty good and people always spam those things so that is hardly a “cherry picked” unit.
So yeah, I don’t think knights really have much of a down side but I’ll agree to disagree.
@@bear4278 “but most units don’t have and invul!” But look at the points you are paying for them. If I am paying 400 minimum for a knight and I get charged by eightbound I’m in for a bad time they will easily get 350 points of dmg even if they don’t kill me. That is unfortunate for the price I’m paying. Another thing is what I have access to as an army. I need to move my knights to the center to score objectives and they die fairly fast in melee.
“Lethal hits and Ap affect everyone” but it’s better against knights. Infants are harder to kill in this game than vehicles due to damage not spilling over. This means a damage 3 weapons into a knight I will take all of them damage where most armies like guardsmen it won’t matter as much. This means we need high toughness to get around this inherent downside. This goes for the 3+ save as well I’m paying 400 points for the unit remember that. It’s not fair to say “Knights are t12 22 wounds! That’s more than my stuff!” Because Im paying way more than you are.
As for the melee please bro I’m not saying that knights have only bad offensive profiles I was only talking taking damage. They are build to lose to melee armies in melee and beat shooting armies in melee nothing insane.