What Is The Deal With Arcade-To-Console Ports These Days?
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arcadeheroes.com - Anytime a popular arcade game hits the scene, there is a clamor for porting it to consoles - often with the demand that it come to consoles first or as soon as is possible. Here, I present the three different perspectives of ports to you to consider: 1) The game consumer 2) The arcade operator and 3) The game developer. I also provide some history on the subject, covering 1982 and the crash (to a quick degree).
The 3rd one's perspective is provided to us by Eugene Jarvis, CEO of Raw Thrills and designer/producer of many arcade games since the 1980s, including Defender, Robotron 2084, Cruis'n USA and many more.
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I remember feeling a certain level of concern for arcades when the PS1 came out and how good SF2 and other arcade game ports looked. When the Dreamcast came out I was full on scared. The PS2 solidified the end of arcades. I'm just glad I was alive to see the whole thing happen
I was playing a lot of Mortal Kombat 3 when the PSX version dropped. To have something that close to arcade quality while the machine was still active in the arcade was gamechanging.
PS1 showed the cracks in arcades. Dreamcast truly killed arcades in 1999. And by the time PS2 came out, they were already dead.
Although Rhythm games like Dance Dance Revolution did keep some arcades alive.
Dude, same. It was never the same again
Shopping malls too, I miss it all.
I think it's such a different time now compared to the Arcade prime of the 80s when Arcades were so plentiful that you would trip over one compared to now when most people would have to drive an hour just to reach one.
10 years exclusivity is way too long in my opinion for a game to remain an arcade exclusive. Could you imagine Atari releasing Pac-Man in 1992 instead of 1982 or Coleco releasing Donkey Kong 10 years later.
In the 80s because of their abundance the lines between home/arcade gamers were blurred where now I feel that they're almost 2 different people.
You made great points from the operator side of things but there is just too much money to be made from selling millions of copies of a $70 game.
Honestly, I would love to have an arcade like yours close to where I live and wish you all the success with yours!
10 years could be too long, but 10 days or months is certainly too fast ;) At the same time, we don't really have games with the cultural impact of Pac-Man landing in arcades first these days.
As for the potential to sell millions, Eugene didn't say how many copies of Cruis'n they sold on Switch, but it was telling that they offloaded the TMNT port onto a 3rd party to save money. I just don't think, from the research I've done and people I've talked to within the industry that there are millions and millions to be made from ports anymore, like there used to be.
TMNT is an interesting port compared to Crusin. The first in that it is multi platform where as Crusin was restricted to the Switch. Secondly Crusin’s home port while awesome is not even close to arcade perfect as the Switch can’t touch a GTX750 (this card can outperform the Xbox One). The port of TMNT is basically perfect on both Series X and PS5.
12:30: A BUNCH of people opened up arcades in 1981-84 thinking they'd become rich. A lot of them did this with no real business plan, experience, or market research. Even as a 13 year old I wondered how this arcade down the street from me was going to survive when there was an Aladdin's Castle a quarter of a mile away at the mall, which all of us kids preferred to meet at anyway. So it's NOT surprising or indicative of anything but overgrowth that the number of operators shrunk in that timespan. It was unsustainable growth. I mean imagine of the 12,000 of 1982 had instead ballooned to 36,000 three years later! There would be one on every corner of every major city! That's no one's fault but the ignorant new operators.
Those newcomers and their desire to overpurchase were a big part of the problem but there were other factors to be considered:
1) Poor economy in '82 w/ high interest rates (this did improve by '84 but was too late for many in the industry)
2) Laser Discs not living up to the hype and bankrupting some developers
3) Lots of pirated games/bootlegs
4) The glut in the arcade space was accompanies w/ a glut in consoles - not just from the amount of games, but also in the number of consoles available to purchase by '83 (not counting computers, many of which were like super consoles w/ a keyboard)
5) Big companies like Atari ruining their reputation between terrible console ports, constantly promising upcoming games/hardware and not delivering, a botched high-profile tournament at the end of '81, and more
6) Some cities like Mesquite, TX outright banning arcades. This went to the Supreme Court; But on top of that, many, many cities either tried bans or they started to charge exorbitant fees just for owning an arcade machine
7) Somewhat of a public "moral panic" about video games in general that caused some parents to disallow their kids from buying them/playing at the arcade
8) Too many console/computer ports that gave zero breathing time - I know everyone disputes that because the 2600 wasn't capable of 1:1 quality, however, that ignores that there were some good ports out there on the 2600 itself, as well as the likes of the ColecoVision & Atari 5200/800 (Pac-Man's port on the latter was pretty close to arcade quality).
I didn't share it in the video but I also found letters from operators saying they wouldn't buy games from companies that always ported titles, since they always saw the earnings drop - but I do agree that they were being too myopic on that alone being the culprit at the time.
This explanation in how the arcade market works and the different roles they play was very eye opening and is much appreciated! As someone who's 40 years old now and lived through the different arcade cycles like the late 80's and 90's, unfortunately I've only viewed it through the lens as the hardcore gamer or the one who would venture to Arcades to check out the latest and greatest games before their home ports. I also never had any on going relationships with insider game manufacturers or coin operators and was ignorant to how the business side actually works. It's a bit embarrassing to admit it now but I used to assume the machines were rented or leased to operators and also paid royalties or percentage of quarters earned weekly. But now I see that a company like say Capcom will invest to create the game and the cabinet to be sold upfront to the coin operator which in turn is left to the operator to invest in that machine and hope to recoup the investment later. So in reality I realize now this puts a heavy burden and stress on the operator to maintain traffic and hope they're investing into the right games because as far as a Konami or Capcom is concerned, after they made their millions back by selling 7 to 10 thousand cabinets they figure other than offering maintenance it's no longer their problem to deal with anymore after that. Overall I agree with you that manufacturers really should let games like Street Fighter 6 or Tekken 8 get exclusivity in Arcades at least for a year or two so everybody is happy and I don't mind waiting until that time to get the home port and actually would motivate me to seek out arcades that do have them to play in between that time just like the old days when I was a kid with Mortal Kombat II for example. 😇
Your experience with SF4 is similar to what Capcom did with SF2CE back in 1992 : offered SF2 Champion Edition exclusively in the limited edition ‘Big Blue’ cabinet and said it would not be released in a conversion kit. Operators had to shell out big bucks for a whole new cabinet so they could own Champion Edition.
Shorty after, Capcom went back on their word and offered Champion Edition as less expensive conversion kits thus screwing over their most dedicated customers - the early adapters.
History repeats, unfortunately.
I suppose the other lesson for operators is: Never trust Capcom ;)
Speaking as someone who doesn't live near the best arcades, I like having the game at home, be it officially or...well, otherwise. At the same time, if I know a place that has the cab, and my only other option is the unofficial method, I will support the arcade if I can. At the same time, I am not gonna blow hundreds in gas money just to reach an arcade machine several states away I might only play a few times before going back to Michigan, so I admit my own rules are a bit weird. Still, I do wanna see arcades do well, and that's why if the official methods are an option, that's my go-to.
In the early 80s, videogames WERE arcade games. So of course we wanted to play those at home on our Vic-20s, C64s, Ataris, etc. I doubt ANYONE cares about current arcade games beyond the 1% of gamers who go out and play them. It's a completely different world now with 99.9% of the best games developed for PC or consoles with the arcades being almost completely ignored. We don't need arcade ports like we did in the 80s, when more involved games (RPGs, etc.) were more rare and harder to develop.
The holy grail for any of us back in the 80s was to have a port of an arcade game that 100% the same. The closest I came before abandoning gaming was Marble Madness on the Amiga in 1987.
@@Great-Documentaries i’m 50 years old now, but I remember back in the 80s to meet anyway the whole purpose of the home arcade was to try to get something that looked like the arcade. I remember playing PAC-MAN thinking this doesn’t look so good same with a version of donkey Kong. By the time they started looking really good. I was already out of video games, as I didn’t play them as a teenager and even as a young adult, I stopped when I was eight or nine years old in the late 70s early 80s Consoles when I was younger, which is too expensive to only buy a few games and not even like the games when I got home. Same thing happened to the PlayStation 4 when I was an adult I remember waiting online to get it on release night. I bought a few of the release titles. I got home didn’t like them and never played it again as a 50 year old home and hundreds of games for each system, if I buy a game, I don’t like it. No big deal I go to the next one. I try to buy physical whenever I can, but there are so many cheap digital games. I just buy to just buy. One of my favorite two dollar games on the switch is American fugitive. For two dollars it’s a top-down game. I really enjoy it then I have some $70 games I put on and can’t stand. I always was fascinated with first person shooters but they get motion sickness so fast. Now I look at arcades and video games as two different entities most of the games being made now you cannot play in the arcade. They would take too long. I did buy that new ninja turtles game that was in the arcades a few years back, it took me like an hour to finish. I still enjoyed it, but it was really short.
I do appreciate your extensive coverage on the ports versus exclusive game topic, since the arcade amusement game industry is a more focused niche compared to home / consumer with a very big yet diverse market and highly saturated.
Consumer game to arcade game upgrades can be a harder sell unless the content and experience is much different between the two versions.
The only arcade ports to sell 100k+ these days are probably the top 5-10 Arcade Archives games on the eShop.
I highly doubt that. Those are much more likely to sell around 10k~20k
How many copies did Cowabunga collection sell?
@@juststatedtheobvious9633 I would like to know that. I imagine Shredder's Revenge probably did better.
@@goatbone Konami isn't the most transparent, but they did celebrate a million copies sold. So, that might be the ceiling for arcade ports?
I'm not sure what to make of the circumstances. The arcade style games (emulation, ports, spiritual sequel) are the highlight of the package, and likely what sold it. But the SNES port of the second arcade game is the franchise high.
Then there's the console exclusive 1 on 1 fighters that aren't shy about their arcade influence.
18:13 I own Cruis'n Blast for Nintendo Switch and it was an amazing experience because I just had so much fun playing it. Trying to upgrade all the vehicles, grab all of the keys on every track, and complete all of the Cruis'n Tours on all difficulties were an amazing aspect from the original game. I wish Raw Thrills would do more of those arcade-to-console ports like TMNT Arcade: Wrath of the Mutants and Big Buck Hunter Arcade because I finally got to play Fast & Furious SuperCars when I was at the movie theater for Bad Boys: Ride or Die a week ago. I raced at the Florida track with the Ford GT vehicle, but I don’t know why I did horrible because I had my foot flat on the accelerator and I was going so slow that I finished in 8th place. I used the Automatic transmission if you’re wondering. I want to play that game again.
The thing I don't get about Konami is making their music games arcade-exclusive. DanceDanceRevolution stopped getting home ports after X on PS2, and GitaDora stopped getting home ports after GuitarFreaks V3 and DrumMania V3 on PS2, and same can be said for beatmania IIDX after 16: Empress. What's the point in releasing arcade-only sequels when the arcade scene is in decline? If that's the case, I hope someone like M2 can port the newest Bemani series games to modern platforms, especially port DDR World to PS5, IIDX 17 Sirius or 31 Epolis to PC or PS5, and other things considered. If they happened, then we consumers can play the newest Bemani games without having to go on road trips or rely on piracy by playing and setting up simulators like OutFox.
I feel like if the arcade cabinet offers an experience you can't get at home, then people will still be interested even if a port is released. A driving game, light gun, and rhythm game cabinets will offer a better experience.
Street Fighter doesn't offer a unique experience in the arcade. It's just a joystick game which people can buy for their house for very low cost.
People can also buy a driving wheel and pedals or taiko drum kit or guitar hero guitar or dance pad. Light gun games are really the only thing arcades have at this point.
This comment makes me question if you've played a real arcade machine in the past decade or so. Comparing the accessory kits on consoles to what arcades offer, is apples to broccoli. Ask any real arcade gamer what they'd prefer (be it driving controls or a dance pad) and they'll look at you like you're from another planet if you seriously try and argue that the quality, immersion, and experience is in any way comparable between the stuff at home vs. arcades.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop I mean with enough investment I’m sure you can match it at home and with how much money you will spend on gas not to mention the time it’s probably a fair investment.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop personally I would be much more immersed in my own home rather then a loud arcade with a bunch of flashing lights but that’s just me.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop either way my point is that the controls being better in the arcade is only appealing to hardcore gamers who aren’t gonna keep the arcades alive. Most gamers will view the peripherals you can buy at home good enough to give a similar experience to that in the arcade whether that’s true or not is irrelevant. So the arcades need something that really isn’t replicable at home in any way to draw the masses into the arcade because just having better controls isn’t gonna be seen as a unique experience by most.
Love arcades, love your videos and I hope to visit your location some day!
Outrun 2 and Outrun SP is the only way i can reguarly play Outrun now, without those ports that game will be lost to time because all the cabs are either broken or taken out of our local arcades.
Its the same issue with Daytona, yes there are the new cabinets but they are few and far between where i am, there is also the use of Teknoparrot to access these arcade games (which i prefer to have a 1 to 1 setup for arcade use. I.e Stepmania / DDR Extreme & ITG.
Excellent !!! I love arcade to home ports !!! Now we have a great understanding .
The way Capcom screwed you over must have been maddening. I can imagine how US operators must have felt when they got Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Power Stone 2 or Capcom vs. SNK only for those games to be ported to the Dreamcast a few months later. Unless a fighting game is exclusive to arcades, or has something more unique than just arcade sticks, hardcore fighting game players can be a fickle crowd for modern arcades.
It's nice to still see the few fighting game players stick around to show off their skills, as well as younger kids playing the newest fighting game at round1, love your videos!
Namco did the same thing too which sucks for operators
There is one comment in this video I take a bit of an issue with because it just sounds like a real big stretch. I understand Jambo Safari’s port was a big flop but Sega is a huge multinational conglomerate. With every pot they had their hand in it seems one bad port could put them anywhere near bankruptcy. While I could buy the argument it could have been a big red dot on a spread sheet there is no way the entire Sega company could be brought down by one bad low budget release.
Here's the article - I am misremembering part of that, so appreciate the call out, particularly the bankruptcy claim, although it did hurt Sega at a time where they had been hurting thanks to other bad decisions, and something like 70,000 unsold copies of a game could have easily been the "straw that broke the camels back" had things gone slightly differently. For a company like Raw Thrills though, they don't have all the other assets to fall back on if a port were to be a big flop - but, these days, digital can cause fewer issues than physical releases in that regard.
www.eurogamer.net/how-i-ruined-segas-financial-results
13:50 The thing I didn't like about the arcade version of Super Street FIghter IV (and Ultra) is that there are no FMVs that play before the arcade ladder. Talk about doing the arcade players dirty!
11:15 “it was our money” so how did the arcade operators obtain their money that would be us the consumer. And the only person the video game company care about is Mr Cash. Sorry the operator wasn’t as needed as they thought. Sucks 😅for them
Ok - so if there's no operator, how do the games get to the players exactly? Consumers couldn't afford them and most devs couldn't operate, so there had to be that middle man spending the money in the first place.
I enjoyed this. I would also be curious on reasons games pivot from console to arcade; Omen of Sorrow comes to mind.
Thanks! For the business model of the company doing that console-to-arcade porting, it makes sense - they need good content for their platform, so they give it some upgrades (some of those get more than others), which costs a lot less than building something from scratch, and release it for what is relatively cheap compared to other games. They are getting to a point where they can start developing some original content, although it will still be a little bit before that comes out.
Hey thanks for the video
You bet!
To be honest, I wish older games would be ported to console and PC. Because the board is discontinued and hard to find. It's a pity that I have no choice but to use Teknoparrot to play games that are difficult to find. I wish H2Overdrive and Dirty Drivin would be ported to console and PC.
I know RT is working hard against pirates, so that could be another angle for the dev to make ports for sure - but then I've already seen people trying to crack Godzilla which is not a good thing (there is A LOT of arcade piracy coming out of China these days and that's a factor that can also hurt the developer). But perhaps another solution is what was mentioned in another comment - games which are like those games in spirit, just not in name. I haven't looked, but are there any H20verdrive/Dirty Drivin' like games out there for console?
@@arcadeheroes_coinop There's Hydro Thunder Hurricane for the Xbox 360.
Excellent documentary! 🃏🎱🎲
Thank you so much, glad you enjoyed it!
Great video and enjoyed in London Eng. The port I wanted and never got...Outrun 2 for Dreamcast...Never happened for obvious reasons and I’d so buy out it now if it came out...(admittedly I am Gen Xer....)
As much as I love arcades people have to accept the reality that they are obsolete or close to being completely obsolete. I think it’s dumb to try and keep arcades artificially afloat with exclusives at the end of the day that’s just gonna make the millions of console players despise arcades for essentially holding hostage games they should be getting. hope arcades continue to exist and I think there is still a novelty there for a lot of people but console gaming has long since won that war.
Where are you getting your info from that they are obsolete? According to Eugene Jarvis, they are as big now as they were in the mid-90s. There are new locations opening up every month, and we're seeing more games being released now than we had in the past 20 years (average was 20~25/yr, now starting to reach 40/yr). Just because IGN/Polygon/Kotaku barely cover them doesn't make them obsolete, aside from the novelty that you mention.
As for "holding games hostage," does anyone say that about Zelda or Mario on Nintendo platforms? Not that I ever see. Across all home platforms, you have hundreds of thousands of games to choose from right now. How does not having 30~40 games released in arcades every year deprive you of anything meaningful? That especially rings true if arcades are dead or obsolete - that's true, then who cares if they ever get ported?
If you really wanted to see arcades continue to exist, then I think you would agree with me. Otherwise, what's the draw? Only prize machines but when that happens, everyone says "well that's not an arcade, its a kiddie casino." To which, they aren't wrong.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop there’s nothing that an arcade can do that a home console can’t that’s what I meant by obsolete. Maybe not light gun games exactly but that’s why I said close to obsolete and either way I don’t think light gun games are gonna save the arcades.
Even if there are still people that like arcades which I acknowledge it’s still a dwindling percentage and the vast majority of new gamers are mobile, home console or pc gamers not arcade gamers that’s clearly where the market is why would a big game company want to make a big budget game exclusive to arcades when 99% of the customers aren’t in arcades there at home. Yes it benefits you but it really doesn’t benefit the game studios.
You can’t compare Nintendo having exclusives to an arcade having exclusives. If people want to play Nintendo games they buy that console and stay in their homes. It’s a lot more to ask of people to physically go to a location plus pay money to play an exclusive game and most people won’t want to do it when there really is no need for it other then to keep your business alive.
I would imagine that the target demographic an arcade would want to reach is gamers so it doesn’t make sense to me to piss off a huge portion or potential customers by telling them the only way they can play a game is to go to an arcade (if they even happen to have one with the game they want) the amount of bad press would be crazy there’s just no need for arcade exclusive anymore other then keeping the arcades on life support.
At the end of the day I do like arcades but when it’s time for something to wind down it’s time. I also loved blockbuster and you could say that blockbuster could have also stayed alive by having exclusives movies you could only rent there that were held hostage from any streaming services but that would have been dumb blockbuster was obsolete and it was time to give it up. I don’t think arcades will ever fully die but it’s also too late to save them or bring them back to what they once were and arcade exclusives would just make most gamers resent the arcades.
@@hercb4388 1) You undermine your own point by bringing up light-gun games, but as in the other comment, you can't hand wave the other things that arcades can do that consoles can't. It's silly to say that there's "nothing" different between the two when arcades can manipulate the display/audio system/feedback/controls in unique ways that are tailored to one specific experience, using tech that is impractical or not possible to do in a home environment. I could list out a bunch: Asphalt Moto Blitz, Drakons, Surf League, Lane Master Xtreme, FnF Arcade, Mega Shot, for recent examples; the Star Wars Battle Pod, Halo: Fireteam Raven SDX, even World's Largest Pac-man and much more. There is plenty that arcades can do thanks to their hardware that doesn't work on a console, even with special accessories, particularly when it comes to immersive experiences.
2) What's your data? Have you talked to anyone in the industry to know that its "dwindling" or are you just making things up? Where I do this every day and regularly speak with game devs, distributors, and other operators, I can confidently say that you are doing the latter.
"why would a big game company want to make a big budget game exclusive to arcades when 99% of the customers aren’t in arcades there at home" - Sit back and think about that for a second. Why does Raw Thrills, Sega, Bandai Namco, ICE, Bay Tek, UNIS, Wahlap, Stern, Jersey Jack Pinball, and many others spend *millions* of dollars on developing new games if "99% of the customers" don't exist for the market? If companies like Dave & Busters, Round1USA, Chuck E. Cheeses, bar/arcades, and others, keep opening new locations, then who are these people that keep them open? They don't have to be "hardcore" gamers to still be gamers.
3) Sure you can - I'm talking about the general idea of exclusivity. Exclusivity has always been a benefit to arcades, if you truly want to see arcades live, then you wouldn't have a problem with this. Even back in the 80s, there were some games which never got a port. Gamers survived.
4) Lol, you want to talk about an analogy that doesn't work, well sorry, but video rentals doesn't get anywhere close to arcades & console games. Rentals couldn't offer anything truly unique by their nature, whereas arcades can. We haven't even brought up pinball, boxing games, basketball games and other social gaming ideas. Like it or not, there are tend of thousands of places out there that classify as an arcade, whereas video rental stores you can count on one hand.
5) If a gamer is going to feel resentful over an adjacent entertainment industry getting a small handful of exclusives when they have an almost unlimited amount of games to chose from on their home platforms of choice, then maybe they need to check their preening entitlement in at the door. Besides, you claim they all think that the arcade industry is dead anyways, so how are they going to be resentful about something that is supposedly obsolete?
@@arcadeheroes_coinop I’m just gonna be honest your argument makes no sense you claim the arcade has so many games that are unique and can’t be replicated on a console right? Then why do you need exclusive games that aren’t unique and can easily be replicated on a console?
That’s what this whole argument is about I don’t care about games that can’t be replicated at home I’m talking about fighting games and beat um ups and racing games that can easily be replicated by consoles. If the arcades are supposedly so healthy as you say then why is having these types of games be exclusive so important? Surely arcades can thrive on the plenty full unique games they offer?
At the end of the day any game that has no technical reason to be exclusive to an arcade shouldn’t be exclusive it’s stupid and apparently unnecessary given all the unreplicatable games you already have.
You act like just because there is many home console games people shouldn’t be upset if they can’t play street fighter or teenage mutant ninja turtles but these are big franchises that obviously people want regardless of how many games there are it’s selfish to and dumb for the game devs to deny fans these games.
I think it great for these devs to make unique experiences that can’t be replicated by a console for arcades and obviously there is money in that specific niche but devs would absolutely be losing money making games that can be ported to console exclusive to arcades I don’t even know how you could argue that.
I imagine Shredder's really killed whatever momentum tmnt had. Perhaps one of the bigger untalked topics on the subject is alternatives to ports. If you can't get one, you could always find something similar and don't even think about what you're missing.
IIRC, Shredder's Revenge came out a little while after RT stopped making their version, so demand was already gone by the time it came out. I'd have to research my numbers to see if there was any effect though.
On another note, I wish that RT would have had the '89 Turtles as options to choose from; Or I would pay $500 for the content they added to the Switch version for the arcade.
Alternatives to ports may be a great follow-up (or something I should have talked about more). Sometimes when this subject pops up, it feels like so many are approaching it from a past perspective - late 80s or early 90s, when there just weren't as many games around as we have now - but acting like nothing's changed.
Now, consoles have 100,000X more options than arcades do, including entire genres that don't work in an arcade setting. That's what can rub the operator in me the wrong way when I hear that EVERYTHING should be ported - why can't arcades have *some* exclusives when consoles/mobiles already have any kind of game that you want already? Or does everyone really just want arcades to be kiddie casinos, as that's what porting them all like it was '82 would result in - more than they already are.
Atari is under contract with Alan-1 for 10 new arcade cabinets. Will be interesting to see what becomes of this. About time Atari focused on the arcades again.
Asteroids Recharged is already rather different from the home version, cabinet aside. Sounds like they'll be shipping soon too
This is why you open an arcade in Mexico!🇲🇽 everyone will go crazy
Haha, me trying to operate an arcade internationally would also drive me crazy :P But that could be a whole other video - arcade access outside of the US is tough, in part due to the high costs (made even higher by customs).
I was around and playing PAC-Man on my friends Atari VCS AND we enjoyed it. We both enjoyed ET as well. We couldn’t afford at our age to go to the 7-eleven and pour quarters into PAC-Man.
I enjoyed Pac-Man & E.T. as a kid too, but there was strong critical backlash at the time for both games (perhaps mixed with some apathy that didn't match the hype that Atari was pushing)
I'd rather just see arcade exclusives again. Bringing everything home is how we got into this mess in the first place.
I could also point out that Raiden III and Raiden IV also have recieved numerous ports to consoles since their initial releases and have gotten full remakes for consoles with rearranged music composed at the Mikado Game Center in Japan as well
I am aware of those, just never heard how it affected them in arcades (since almost no arcade over here had one). That said, I have read various complaints from Japanese operators about ports, and with everyone lamenting how much the JP game center business has decreased over the years, well, ports do some of the blame there, more than they would here at the moment.
As one example, I was told that the Breakers Revenge Chicago test outearned Street Fighter VI Type Arcade by a huge margin.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop I have no idea how it affected those releases as well, and it doesn't help that III and IV are only in Japanese arcades (thanks MOSS 😒)
And as far as I know, MOSS is a pretty small company end of itself, so how they were able to stay afloat despite porting two arcade games to consoles is really sort of surprising
@@LoganTheDevilMayCryFan I did strongly contemplate picking up Raiden III back when I opened my arcade in 2008, but IIRC, the port was announced around then, so I decided not to bother.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop makes sense. Sales would have been heavily impacted
Yknow what would be a interesting video?
Yknow those arcades that you pay a flat fee then you can play all the arcades game with free play.
Im genuinely curious how those places stay afloat after seeing the costs in this video.
So are the twins/clones at 28:47 an Easter egg or what?
Btw, great video! Thanks for this! 🙏
Maaaaaybeee
Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like about 10 or so years
Is pretty good I’m not a arcade operator but yea
A decade works for me ;) One thing is that if you're a small operator, you can't always grab games the moment they launch, so you might need to wait a couple of years. The trade off of course is that when games are fresh are when they earn the best.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop Ten years is far too long for a game to be arcade exclusive. Only the most fortunate humans live past 80. Operators should give up the ghost of this business model, or fight back against ridiculously priced hardware somehow.
@@DinosaurForTheWin Well 10 weeks or 10 months certainly doesn't work. There's no point in having an arcade scene if it's nothing more than a prop for console releases, might as well just convert it into full blown kiddie casinos. But then you'd never get stuff like NBA Superstars, you'd just get whatever EA and Ubisoft want to crap out next.
I know its archaic, but sometimes there are business models that aren't broken and still work. The arcade industry still generates a lot of revenue, but I'd rather see it come from video games and not ticket redemption/cranes. That won't happen though as long as hardcore gamers refuse to support the scene by not allow it to have *something(s)* unique/special/exclusive at all.
The NBA has an EXCLUSIVE contract with 2K for console games. They maker of the new arcade game CANNOT port it to console! Gamers are so uninformed/dumb.
They could still work out a deal if 2K and Raw Thrills did something, although what cost that might add is unknown. But yes, there are differences between console and arcade licensing that do make it more difficult to do than just telling the NBA you want to make some money with a video game (as many seem to think)
Was Jambo a port? The wii version is really a different game. I would go for the arcade version anyday.
It was a port in a loose sense - just the basics were transferred, but that ended up being a huge cost for Sega to incur, only to not have anyone buy it :/
These are two different audiences , Arcade Games are now games played on dates or a time out with the family so you don't need much depth just a lot of action in short period of time. Console games need depth and replay ability, most people are playing fortnite/call of duty/league of legends. I'm someone who prefers arcades as I've gotten older, but I also prefer to pay up front and not per play.
Konami felt that making console ports of Dance Dance Revolution was a mistake and eating into their arcade profits. Now they only release modern DDR in arcade cabinets. That's where the real money is since each DDR cabinet probably costs around $20,000.
Having played the arcade version of Street Fighter VI I also would like to point out that the graphics on in are pretty sub par. They appear to be using lower presets on settings than the version on current gen home consoles so not only did it come second it actually is also inferior. I never saw anybody flocking to play it or the arcade version Street Fighter V. Of course this was in Kentucky at an arcade that recently shut down due to not performing well so perhaps that had an effect.
One thing I didn't mention is that I did end up getting a mod for my SSFIV where it ran it in 1080p instead of the default 720p - so that was a little factor, but ultimately, arcade editions of fighters need to have more than slightly faster response times and slightly better graphics - they really need to have exclusive characters and stages for anyone out there to really care.
Yeah and to anybody interested the arcade version of Street Fighter V looked really good and it could be linked to your Capcom account you play the home version on. The end result was that anything you unlock in the home version could be used in the arcade version. This was then tied into your Nesica account. It also gave you the ability to play against other players world wide. But yeah I think I played against one person SFVI. I was excited but it seems like nobody cared.
@@nataclar There's no reason to when the home version is similar or better :/
One example of modern ports doing well is m2 shot trigger's and Sega ages
Yes, I mentioned the Sega Ages in the video, although I could not find sales numbers for them. Those are also all for old games, so what I mean when I saw modern is an arcade game released in the past decade, not 25/30/40 years ago.
Only thing I could find for Sega Ages was an implication that one of them sold around 18,000 copies, which is ok, but by metrics of where the best sellers are at on consoles, that's rather dismal. Even that Konami Arcade Collection of 40k sales is ok, but nothing to rant about, as that's a footnote against sales of say, the latest Mario game.
Overal what I mean is that "doing well" depends on what you are comparing it to and how you define what "well" means. Do they sell well just among arcade ports, or do they do well among all games out there? Did the Sega Ages port of Virtua Racer sell around the same or better than the most recent Gran Turismo or Forza game, or much worse? That's where a dev has to look at the hard data and decide if such a port is actually worth the cost and the effort - its not a guarantee.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop ya but like why even compare the two? it's completely different realities like Id pay 30 max (digitally since I'm talking shmups here which is it's own hardcore gamer crowd) but that's on a good day for me why are these companies expecting ports like these to make a million or like 80k$ nostalgia?
@@lomaxionpeerixonez2022 I am using absurdity to point out the absurd ;)
As I said in the video, the main issue with ports is they are not free or cheap to make and thus they have to make their money back on that development cost. In the event that the arcade version lost money, then it has even more to make up for. Unfortuantely, we have no idea how much that is for most games, so if you're ever stuck wondering "why don't they port my favorite game over," there's a 99% chance that its because it would lose them money to do so. And in some cases, like almost what happened to Sega, that could mean going bankrupt and a lot of people losing their job just because of a port that no one wanted to buy.
What ticks me off about exa is that most of their library is barely upgraded versions of 20-30$ indie games sometimes less (danmaku unlimited 3 is 10$ and fdf part 2 is 20$).
Like why would i pay to play danmaku unlimited 3 for like a 1$ a play when i can own the game for 20$.
Then theirs aka to blue a real gem of a mobile game does a good of recreating the feel of og dodonpachi and dai ou jou but my only choice is like 1-5$ to barely beat a single level or its stuck on a phone screen where my finger gets in the way of 80% of the screen
I get the sense that you'd prefer that a company like exA only existed to 'barely upgrade' these games and release them for cheap on console. I imagine if that model could be profitable, someone would do it already, but it must not be. Otherwise, all the energy spent on complaining about them could be put into making a new game dev company that does what they do, only for consoles. I wonder if they'd survive for long or not.
Demanding that all exA content go back to the console though defeats the purpose of them existing in the first place, and would deprive operators of an actual affordable solution, so this complaint ends up creating something of a paradox, unless I'm missing something.
I do think though that Exa needs more original content though. Ports of indie games with a few extra bells and whistles is fine I guess but I don’t feel all that inclined to seek out Exa machines for the few minor upgrades and I have only seen two of them in the wild.
@@nataclar If anything I think eXa has the model backwards. What's the point of adding 1 level and 1 character to a 3 year old indie arcade game, so some people in Japan who haven't heard of it can play it? If anything they need to partner with indie publishers like Devolver Digital and get them to release early versions of indie games in arcades and then release the full home market versions a year later.
You don't need much content for an arcade game (30-60 minutes) so this model can work despite people complaining online about wanting the home port. If it is made clear the arcade version has less content though and the full version will be released later you would have less complaints as long as it is longer than a demo.
@@poonoo87 While a strong segment of their market is in Japan, there are many units that have sold into the US and Europe. It might help to understand that exA is made up of arcade fans and they are looking to help the industry. As I mention in the video, its a big challenge to have the average cost of a new game landing at $14k - or that one that costs $100k. One reason that has happened is the trend and growth of FECs, to the detriment of smaller, independent arcades. But in Japan there's a big issue that exists there which doesn't as much exist here, that of revenue sharing. Rev shares (plus things like taxes and bans on smoking) have negatively affected JP game centers, causing many to close or shift more towards crane machines. ExA is at least providing more content for locations there to enjoy. It seems like everyone wants JP arcades to survive - it basically takes the exA model to do so, from what I can tell.
Having exA do what they do helps us small fries out all over the place, in two ways: 1) Low price 2) more content. Most companies like Sega and Raw Thrills release something like 3-5 video games a year. ExA has released around 40 games in under 5. Sure, not every game is for every location, but its still quite a bit more than what we're accustomed to having.
Re: OG content as nataclar said, I'd like to see more OG content too (the challenge there is OG = more expensive to produce), but there are some things in the works which are headed in that direction...just have to hang tight. There also are some of their games which have a bit more content added to them (Vritra Hexa) or are completely different games (Super Battle Princess Madelyn). What I played of Jitsu Squad also feels like a different (much more fast paced and true to arcade beat 'em ups) game than what's on console.
But it seems you can't make everyone happy - improved versions irks players but port those as quickly as players want and you piss off the operators.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop I understand eXa games are significantly cheaper than the giant games that cost over $10K but my issue is that I think their market is so niche that I don't know if they will help you guys out. I want them to do well and for arcades to thrive but having some obscure indie games from a few years ago with an extra level or two won't really do much for the arcade business.
Even people who like those games will shrug "I already have that at home" or "I can get that on Steam for $10". eXa games being relatively cheap means if they do more timed exclusive games for say, a year, it won't hurt as much as a new giant NBA cabinet that may need about 18-24 months to be profitable.
I think a timed exclusive model would work better since even by your own numbers the retro games don't earn all that much, and you have classics like Street Fighter 2. I don't know the numbers of the eXa games you recently got in but I'd imagine they might be doing worse in terms of plays (I know you only charge a quarter for retro stuff) with the games being more obscure. If eXa existed 15-18 years ago a version of Super Meat Boy prior to it coming out would have done okay with eXa game prices, but if they released it now with some extra content it wouldn't make much.
It's good to hear that it seems they are trying for more exclusive games because I feel like eXa needs that long term. Though I think the cost of developing that wouldn't be that high since you would essentially be releasing an extended demo anyway for arcades so if anything it could fund development for the full game and be less risky for publishers. eXa chipping in a bit on top of that would make it worth it since they will gain a lot.
Arcade games being short means the arcade version would be developed faster with less content to make, and you can monetise it mid development and ask operators for numbers to see how popular it is. For publishers it's good too since it minimizes risk on their end if the game doesn't do well in arcades.
I know this isn't for all games, RPGs would never work but for arcade style indie games it could be another revenue stream.
Look to exa Arcadia as an example of why no ports why make a 60-70$ port when you have the few venders in Japan and America who pay like 10-20k$ for a couple of cartridges and a jamma setup
I wish Exa would allow ports (or rather let its devs), it would give much wider access to all. It’s why I keep asking for Axel City 2 to come to Steam. And Arcade to home system is a GOOD thing because wider access and not having to rely on luck to find these in the wild (I wish my local mall had Exa cabs).
@@rockhyde7775 brother exa Arcadia doesn't exist here in Texas
Not entirely sure what you mean given that exA mainly ports from console-to-arcade - and no exA setup should cost anywhere near $20k (maybe around $10k with 4 carts).
But this gets into a different area when people start complaining about the differences in price. It is impossible to have a company survive charging console prices. I'd dare anyone who regularly whines about exA's prices to do it and actually pull it off. If so, I'd eat crow, but am I worried about losing that bet? Not in a million years.
It's not just the cost of a cabinet involved here, which is instantly going to cost a couple to few thousand dollars to produce per cab - as mentioned, Raw Thrills has spent $4m+ on developing a single game, but they are not going to sell 100,000 of them or more, most likely. That's why I discuss the operator - the population of operators is your market cap. If there are only 40,000 operators in the US, then you're **not** going to sell more than that - realistically, you're going to sell to a third or a half of that, if you're lucky. Cruis'n Blast has sold somewhere over 10,000, but not even 20,000, and that's their best selling game. So how exactly would that be profitable by charging $70 for it? Just the artwork they print and apply to cabinets costs more than that.
As such, arcade devs have to sell the games at a reasonable amount that makes enough profit for them and the distributor to cover the dev costs + a profit so they can continue to develop other games, whereas your console games or mobile games simply have a massive (2 billion+, accounting for all platforms) buyer pool to sell to.
@@rockhyde7775 What pisses me the fuck off about exa is that most of their library is barely upgraded versions of 20-30$ indie games sometimes less (danmaku unlimited 3 is 10$ and fdf part 2 is 20$).
@@lomaxionpeerixonez2022 I know of one place in TX that has an exA with two games, Arcade UFO over in Austin