So what do you think these cards would be useful for? Seems like they're a product looking for a problem. Though for me, they're a fascinating novelty!
i bought the GT610 to get hardware accelerated video decoding and at least some form of 3D gaming capability on intel atom systems. this was really a big upgrade. when this card is paired with an atom 330 or D525, games like portal 2 are playable on medium settings @ 1360x768 and thanks to the hardware mpeg4 decoding, steam in home streaming is an option for more demanding games. 1080p movies with kodi are no problem and i can also watch youtube videos in 720p on the atom 330 and even 1080p on the D525 (32bit windows 8.1 with chrome browser) if you need to see it with your own eyes to believe it: /watch?v=nC6QRRWt21g (GT 610 PCI + Atom D525)
old pc that you want to run old games or software on that dont play good with todays os and drivers that came before agp. i keep an over powered agp card in my old windows xp machine. if it has drivers it works why not. i have a sony vaio pc from 1997 that has only pci and if it has windows 98 drivers i would put one of these in it. the other vaio pc i have is my 3dfx pc.
i think PCs from the 90's are better off with a card that matches the time period. i would not go above and beyond a geforce 5000 or 6000 series if i want to put the card in a late 90's pentium 3. you would probably not be able to fully utilize the GT610 on this machine. a PCI Geforce 5500 might be more available, a bit cheaper to get and has windows 9x drivers.
I have a Zotac 9500GT PCI, and found it was bottle necked majorly by PCI, I found that even when it seemed to have a decent frame rate it was really stuttery and there was a lot of screen tearing. Also when ever there was an HDD access it pretty much froze whatever I was doing then it stuttered back to a normal frame rate. I don't think that these GPUs have really any good use, If you want multiple monitors FX5200/FX5500 PCI cards seem to be a lot more common and cheap. I play around with old computers and probably the fastest system with only PCI slots is going to be a socket 478 that only supports 533mhz FSB CPUs and even the fastest P4 are often too slow to use the modern internet and stream video, and even the hardware video decoder probably doesn't get enough bandwidth over PCI to really help compared to CPU decoding + AGP GPU integrated into the chipset. These GPUs are kind of neat from a collecting stand point, but it's probably better to just buy a different motherboard with AGP and a decent AGP GPU, old PCI only systems really aren't worth upgrading.
I used a GT610 and GT520 (both PCIe) to drive four monitors for quite a while. When the GT520 died, I finally upgraded to a single 750Ti. The 610 sits in a drawer as an emergency backup, but if you want to do a head to head comparison, I'm willing to part with it.
I remember back in 2006 I tried to find a semi-decent PCI card for a friend, he wanted to upgrade an old desktop that our school had thrown out as he didn't own a PC and desperately wanted one that would play at least some games. The only catch was it had to be local and with cash (we were 14 at the time and didn't have bank accounts). Anyway long story short it took months and months until finally I found a GeForce FX 5500 looking all alone in the back of a local PC repair store, the guy forgot he even had it and let me take it off his hands for £5! Paired with the modest (but surprisingly powerful for a school PC) 3ghz Celeron D and a 1gb DDR stick I gave him the old beige monster had a new lease of life! He ended up getting a new PC a year later but even so, that little workhorse gave him countless of hours of entertainment, even if it mostly came in the
Somedays ago I found a couple of "brand new" intel mini-itx motherboards from 2007, still in their boxes with celeron 1.2 ghz, 1gb of ram and only 1 pci slot... Thanks to your video and the zotac cards I am now able to transform this vintage pieces of hardware into some still useful and compact media centers, thanks!
Both 4670 and 3850 REQUIRE a Core 2 Duo/Core 2 Quad class CPU to be fully used. HD 3850 512MB is a good bit faster than 4670 1GB DDR3 in everything (I tested this myself) - and yes, I used QX9770 @ 3,84GHz and WInXP :D Proof : i.imgur.com/fnwnEBY.png
Heh I still have my Powercolor Radeon HD 3850, I never tested how much/if bottle-necked it was... I Was rockin a Athlon 64 3200+ and played fallout 3 ok before I retired the build.
The Voodoo 5 (PCI) was my first ever GPU. I loved it after I bought it to play the first Hitman. I actually never owned an AGP card, oddly. When "The Screen Savers" first detailed AGP I was jealous but by the time I got out of the old PCI architecture, I bought the new PCI-e architecture.
I only ever owned one AGP card myself. it was a CAD-card, and was significantly less powerful then basically any PCI card still being sold. (Oxygen Labs VX1), the next graphics card I bought was a GT520 in PCIE. AGP was pretty much always the domain of the high-end, and was thus never as popular as the standard that came before (PCI) or the standard that replaced it (PCIE). I remember being blown away by the GT520 when I got it (The PCIE model absolutely obliterates it's PCI counterpart, you even can manage Asassin's Creed Revelations if you turn the settings to garbage)
Around 2011 I used the Zotac 520 to make a number of industrial PCs compatible with Windows 7. Intel never upgraded their drivers for their older P4 chipsets and industrial computers didn't have AGP or PCI-E at the time (at least not the ones they purchased) The improved stability of Windows 7 was important enough to justify the expense of like 20 of these things. They did the business, and they were fanless, but in 2020 they're not much to look at!
I feel like i have to note that all 3dfx cards in agp format were only marginally better than their pci counter part because they weren't real agp cards. They were actually pci cards that ran in the agp 66 mhz bus. They never took advantage of the agp features! One way to experience this is by opening directx and seeing that the agp stuff is grayed out. Back on topic; I'm curious to see how the 8400gs and 9200 cards stand with the ones you tested. They should theoretically perform less, but I wonder if pci is such a bottle neck that they would perform similarly. I like your presentation of ideas, so I just subbed!
You've earned another subscriber thanks to this informative video. I've owned the Zotac GT430 and the GT520 for a few years. Like you, I was also searching for the fastest PCI graphics cards ever produced. The 430 is currently installed in my Dell Dimension 2400 running XP with 2GB of DDR RAM and a 3.06GHz Northwood P4 CPU with hyperthreading. This machine is maxed out and my main XP retro gaming PC. I plan on purchasing a smaller heatsink/fan for the 520 to make it low profile so it fits in my mini ITX Atom D410 with 3GB DDR2 running XP. I'm still looking for a good deal on a GT610 so I can complete my collection.
Found your channel researching for the fastest PCI GPU cause i am building a showbuild what should be a super fast watercooled 486 with pci slots. Enough rambling, glad I found your channel!! Will check out all your newer content now!!!
It's 2022 and with the increasing interest in retro computing/gaming, this kind of video is extremely helpful. I just picked up a Dell with a P4 for some retro XP gaming and it has a PCI motherboard... I could use the onboard graphics, but I definitely want to beef it up with period correct hardware. Great video!
Depending on the XP era you're pursuing, you can get some real budget mileage moving up to a pcie board. PCI cheaper to target directX 9 or below so more 98SE or Win2K. If you go that route, the GeForce 6200 can handle pretty much all I throw at it in 98SE. For XP I run three variations mostly, my most used would be my mATX DDR3 ASUS LGA 775 board with a GTX 680. Completely overkill, but plays everything in XP I could possibly want without emulation. I can run up to 1333 with my Q9650 but had a bunch of 2GB 1066 matching sets, so went with that.
I've got a lot of old good 775 systems here with anywhere from celerons to core 2 duo and core 2 quad, but can't find a good agp card, even old kinda useless agp cards are too damn hard to buy here
@@evandrochaves9596 that's a shame, what games are you hoping to target? ATI options are out there as well. The 9500 pro is good, X1600 may also work. If you're shooting for 98SE/ME/2000/Early XP these should work. On the nVidia side you may also want to look into the workstation cards as I don't think there's any demand for them
Thank you so much for your research. There are people like me who are hit with the "upgrade bug" when coming across an older machine or rig. Having to sift through outdated forum posts on google can be misleading. Thank you for taking the time to ask and answer the question "The Fastest Graphics card on a PCI Bus" .
well, in 2004 - 2008 most motherboard only had 1 PCI-Express slot (except the most high end motherboard like Intel 975X or nForce 680i SLI chipset), if your PCI-Express slot is died or got a short circuit but you won't buy a new motherboard, those "PCI Graphic Card" actually usefull as long as you're not a gamer. Back in 2006 I had ATI Radeon 9250 PCI edition because my intel D945 PLRN had PCI-Express slot issue, but since that pc primarily just for office works, i didn't really care about graphic card performance.
Just picked up the PCI Geforce GT 610 thanks to this video! I know i heard around 2 years ago that there was the fastest AGP card, but never got my hands on it.
@@Denis-Maldonado Got a working XFX 7800 GS AGP in my collection. If I remeber correctly it's the fastest AGP card from team green. 450 MHz core 256 MB 1.320 MHz memory 256 bit bus 42.240 MB/s bandwidth
Such a small channel yet so much quality and potential. You've earned another subscriber and I hope and am sure to see more come as time goes on. Good job :)
This is actually a very well done channel! I can see it rising in popularity with enough effort involved even working uphill against the new regulations TH-cam's introducing or has introduced as of this comment (I'm unclear on when it was going to be or anything though).
Just out of interest,. what new regs are these? I've a couple of friends collaborate on running a channel and they can't figure out what's being 'tweaked'..
I know in the grand scheme it wouldn't have really made much difference, but I always wished PC makers had mimicked what Apple did in the late 1990s, speaking of switching to 64-bit/33mhz PCI slots. The increase from 133MB total bandwidth to 266MB wouldn't be much in regard to the later PCIe standard, but it would have kept the PCI bus more relevant in the 2000s...and that doesn't even include moving to 64-bit/66mhz standard or PCI-X, all of which were backwards compatible and would have pushed the limits even further, etc.
If you do the PCIe 1x GPU, just note you can use any GPU and either cut the right side of the PCIe motherboard slot and plug in the GPU, or you can use a $5 GPU riser. I've ran an RX 470 on one of those 1x riser cables when I bought it used. It seemed to do ok in Firestrike, though performance was lower, I don't think it was down to half (also probably limited by the Celeron and 4gb of ram the guy was running).
Hey Pixel Pipes thanks for the video! In regards to the web slow downs I found even the Nvidia 6200 (pci-e) was barely enough for TH-cam playback at 480P video. (core 2 duo e6750, 2.6 ghz) A GT 730 2 gig ddr5 gave 1080p smoothly. Finding a quality GPU for a legacy build is a must. I think I've found a FX 5600 pci and need to research for best compatibility with older games. Again thank you for the informative concise content on this topic.
Good video, only the music is too loud. There are Fujitsu Siemens HTPCs called Activy, which were very popular with Linux VDR. Older Activy models only had PCI, but cards like those in the video allow HD playback in those systems and also very good scaling and deinterlacing thanks to VDPAU compatibility.
Believe it or, PCI slots still exist on some modern motherboards today. Last year I built a PC with a B360 Coffee Lake Motherboard and it has a PCI slot!
My first video card I saved money for and bought myself was a Voodoo 3 3000 PCI. I had a crappy ECS micro ATX socket 370 board that didn't have an AGP slot. It still ran quite well for the time and I was really happy. But I was playing games from the mid 90s on a P3 500mhz, so pretty much overkill. However, the motherboard died maybe a year after our family got the computer and we replaced it (and the case) with a far superior full ATX DFI board. That upgrade alone made the computer run twice as fast. Eventually I upgraded the video card to a Radeon 7500 and it still sits in my Dad's basement. But back to the Voodoo 3 PCI card, around the same time I got the Radeon, I responded to an ad on Craigslist from someone looking for a decent PCI video card he was willing to trade for an AGP Voodoo 5! I asked him if he would trade and he said he desperately needed the card for a server he was running, so I ended up with a Voodoo 5 and was absolutely thrilled! ...It wasn't any better than the Radeon 7500 lol
@@PixelPipes Sadly, I do not. But I did manage to acquire a Voodoo4 in a trade, which I still have. I traded this guy for a bunch of stuff that I later found out were a bunch of Newegg returns. Almost everything I traded for was broken, including a really nice (and I think pretty rare) Amd slot A motherboard with an 850mhz CPU. The Voodoo 4 was one of the only things that actually worked!
These cards were useful for people who had all their PCIe ports/bandwidth used by RAID and network cards. Now that CPU integrated graphics is in most chips and works they do not serve any purpose except more displays for which they are inexpensive.
By coincidence I just pulled out my VIA miniITX from the old gear drawer this morning to see if it will run LibreElec, and your video just showed on the youtube list. :D
We just found one of the five people I mentioned in my comment! :O (in all seriousness though, you've got to give it to old PCs for their undying longevity)
I thought the last pci card was the geforce gt210, didnt realise they did newer cards! Recently I just bought a geforce 6200 pci card 3 month ago, rather than having to use my old tnt card!
Well to be fair I think the GeForce 210 PCI stayed in production longer any of the other DX10+ cards. So it's not the newest "architecturally" but it might be among the last you could still buy brand new.
Awesome video, I've always wondered how something like this would stack up when tested. After eyeballing the data, it appears that the performance is limited to something around the level of a Geforce2 GTS with older games. It's interesting to see them perform better under newer titles, must be some driver optimization issues with older games.
I can confirm that the 1650 low profile version works fine in most HP SFF PCs, even a 2nd gen. i5 Quadcore turns this way into a gaming machine. Temps are quite high, but can be fixed by setting a higher cpu/case fan speed in the BIOS.
@@virtualtools_3021 I stuck the 1650 in my Elite 8300, replaced my 1050. I really don't need this system for much of anything, mostly just testing stuff but it is a lot of fun making old hardware handle modern stuff reasonably well. I also have a maxed out rp5700, that also runs windows 10 reasonably well on a 1X GT 710. I tried to track down that 1X Gt 730 that Zotac made but that seems to be a true unicorn.
Ahh. You're killin me here. These cards are built on PCIe bridge chips to do the dirty work of converting a native PCI Express GPU to a PCI interface. That doesn't always work out well. My application is in a 200MHz Pentium Pro retro system I put together; Pentium Pro is the grandfather of all modern Intel architecture. That board only has PCI. It also doesn't play nice at all with any cards using one of those bridge chips -- they work, but performance is abysmal (slideshow status for Quake 3 on a 8400). So I did some research on it. Turns out, the GeForce 6200 was the last chip to offer native PCI support -- and it's a perfect balance. The card has 256MB RAM. So does the PC! ;) And it works well, running Quake 3 at playable rates in full HD (1080) resolution. That 6200 also barely overlaps working drivers (without requiring MMX or SSE) in both XP and 98.
some older OEM system like some DELLs had no AGP/PCI-E slots, thats the only utility i could think off for these cards. I have a DELL optiplex which has the PCI-E slot blanked out. also my first PC didnt had PCI-E or AGP much to my chagrin as i wanted better graphics performance or to get certains to run at all. (was a pentium 3 era machine, i had a 1.0Ghz Celeron)
3dfx Voodoo 5 5500 PCI (not only MAC version) is very special because this board is natively compatible with PCI 66mhz (266Mb/sec) standard if plugged on a motherboard PCI-X slot or via some PCI-to-PCIE converters supporting 66 mhz.
Nice presentation. Surprising what's around out there! Very good channel. There are quite a few excellent channels out there that need more subscribers - and this is one ;) I'm off to look at the other vids now.
Related: I have a GT610 PCI and was curious about its DOS performance. It would only work in text mode. Switching to any graphics mode froze the machine. So while it's definitely not an ultimate solution for a hybrid retro box, it still does blow away a lot of old tech in raw 3d performance.
Nvidia and AMD have long since dropped support for legacy DOS VESA modes, which most DOS games require to function. I think the last GPUs to offer VESA support were released in 2004-2005. The few OpenGL/Glide based DOS games might still run if you can find a wrapper that works in DOS.
Some card manufacturer supports VBE3. Example: Collorfull NVIDIA GTX 295 VBE3 Saphire Radeon 9750 VBE3 The problem is, that a lot of old DOS games use the outdatet modlist from VBE1.x, but not the modelist from the display device of newer cards since Geforce. vbe3.pdf from vesa.org : Starting with VBE version 2.0, VESA will no longer define new VESA mode numbers and it will no longer be mandatory to support these old mode numbers. Since VBE2 we have to get the modenumbers from the modelist of the card bios. 1.) With function 4F00 we can get the VESA BIOS Info in a buffer of 512 bytes. Buffer+14 contains the pointer(seg:Offset) to the modelist. Each modenumber is a 16 bit value. The list ends with FFFF. 2.) With function 4F01 and together with the modenumbers from the list we can get the mode specific information of each modenumber one by one in a secondary buffer of 256 bytes, for to compare if the resolution and color depth is comfortable.
I played Fallout 3 and fallout New Vegas on my Radeon 2400 PCI card, 25 FPS on low settings. It was a Dell Dimension 2400! In fact I think I will dust down the old workhorse and see what it can run today! Great video by the way!
Author has prolly tried 'em already, but the Single PCIe 1.0 x1 lane (claimed 33/66mhz) PCI adapters (PEX8112* PCIePCI bridge) w/ a powered riser will *technically* allow any legacy-bios bootable modern GPU to 'work'. (I may or may not have tried this on a MI25 turned not-a-WX9100 16GB HBM2 in a NF2200Pro dual-940 board. for fun...) Keep in mind many boards will potentially run them 33Mhz/133MB/s rather than PCI 2.1(1997)-> supported 66Mhz/266MB/s. (I'm still playing with the 2 adapters I have, and 'figuring out' their limitations.) Heads-up: Those same PCIPCIe bridge adapter cards work w/ NVME drives. Ex. Adding 'Intel Optane' to an early-2000s PC is an amusingly anachronistic experience. *Oh, BTW: Same PEX8112 is on many low-end and early PCIe cards in PCI-build. (in other words, you can use a 'PCI X1300/x1550' to test how a system reacts to the PEX8112).
There's also PCI 33mhz and PCI 66mhz, and 32bit and 64bit versions of both. The least of which (33mhz 32bit) is 133MB/s bandwidth. And the fastest (66mhz 64bit) is 533MB/s bandwidth.
Did anybody else spot the swollen capacitor at 0:16? Top of screen between the IO ports and the CPU. Looks swollen to me anyway. I replaced so many boards and power supplies as a field tech during the late unpleasantness of the Great Capacitor Plague that it is the very first thing I look for on every component I see. P.S. This video earned you a new sub :) Good stuff, thanks for all your hard work.
It makes me wonder how these cards would do in a Classic Win95/98/Dos PC from the mid-late 90's. If there are drivers for said operating systems it would sure be a worthwhile upgrade path for people looking to run classic games with the best possible graphics quality settings.
There aren't any 9x drivers for these cards. Officially, the 6000 series are the last Nvidia GPUs to support 9x but there are unofficial drivers for the 7000 series
I really like all your videos and the fact that you're calm and giving interesting information in this world of "lol entertainment", thank you ! I may have an idea of video for you : test or talk about PCi-Express in old OSs like Windows 9X/ME. because it's not natively supported and it could be interesting to make PCIe work for new motherboards in old OSs. I think it could be so cool to have a platform that can test like 20 years of graphics card etc. Keep up like that dude :)
Nice ! I just worked a little bit that morning on making a PCIe graphics card (gtx 550) work with KernelEX in Win98SE. If you didn't know it's a software that allows you to choose program's compatibility with newer OSs like Windows 2000, XP SP2, Vista etc. but nothing relevant. Also I tried the card to be recognized as an older card like geforce 6800 gt but again nothing
Ahhh, I remember pairing a GT 520 with my Thinkpad T30 as my main computer until late 2013. Did it because I was poor and saving up for a custom PC. The laptop had a 1.8ghz Pentium 4 M and 512mb RAM. I got Crysis 2 to run on lowest settings, 720p, and about 15~ FPS.
It makes you wonder when performance effectively "stopped" on PCI bus and how many redundant iterations were sold between that "stop" and the cards featured here.
do overclocked pci slots. pcs were overclocked by changing the FSB and that increase the frequency of all buses too. it wasn't uncommon for pci slots to be running upside of 43mhz
These were all using dirt cheap GPUs from ATI/AMD and NVIDIA though. They used available components at the time to make a PCI graphics card. I don't really think Zotac intended to make a high performing card. It was not like ATI/AMD or NVIDIA made GPU chips specifically for PCI anymore.
@@GraveUypo There is an official 3.3v 66 MHz PCI spec, but it was not widely used outside of workstations and servers. Bandwidth is doubled from 133 to 266 MB/s. PCI-X had even higher clock speeds from 100-533 MHz and bandwidth rivaling the first gen PCIe x16 slot at 4264 MB/s. Some PCI graphics cards support 66 MHz slots, which is why the PCI edge connector is double keyed, the 66 MHz slot is a reversed PCI slot so normal 5v only cards won't fit in them. Apple had a 66 MHz PCI slot in their B&W G3 because the chipset did not support AGP.
I'd bought a PC back in 2002 and had no idea what AGP X8 was. The PC only had PCI and I'd ended up purchasing a GeForce 2 and GeForce 4 MX 440 and finally the FX 5200 Ultra. I was able to play Halo and DOOM 3 on the last card, but DOOM 3 tanked when a scene with some kind of spider like machine started walking. It was an okay experience.
BTW.. we did NOT go from ISA to PCI. first we used EISA. then ISA+VLB or EISA+VLB. THEN PCI came along. you jumped many years of my computer life with that statement ;) and and i had some different PCI 64 bit card's as well. both 5V and 3.3V and two speed's.
yes i never used PS/s as it "sucked" and was way to expensive for my taste. all my systems was build by me ;)i actually used amiga ZORRO slots more then MCA. i remember the game port for the MCA was about 6 times the price then it was for ISA.. so no.. not for me. today i have some MCA based systems. and card's. stil i have more EISA then MCA stuff.
In a retro XP build, I had to source a half height PCI card because the onboard PCIx would not accept any video cards I tried. Turns out, HP, in their screwball logic, disabled the ability to expand the video unless you used an 'add 2' card, which just added a second vga port to the onboard video. My best guess, the computer was meant for office drones and nothing more.
Add 2 cards with DVI were the most common. I had one on my htpc to output to a hdtv. I eventually replaced it with a HD 6450 and all I gained was 10W more power consumption. Obviously 3D is a different story.
i have a zotac gt 430 pci. i built a retro pc with xp with it and was extremely disappointed with the card. I dont recommend it for retro gaming at all. What i do recommend it for is media capabilities, i can watch youtube at 1080p over its hdmi port with no problems at all on a amd athlon II ! while using windows 10 x64. This was a really informative video gaming related. Of course the card has a very very low power comsumption and if you see one on a flea market, grab it, if you want to revive an old pc for media streaming, if not? let it go.
In terms of overall gaming performance, the graphical capabilities of the Nvidia GeForce GT 430 are significantly better than the Nvidia GeForce GT 610. The GeForce GT 610 has a 110 MHz higher core clock speed than the GeForce GT 430, but the GeForce GT 430 has 8 more Texture Mapping Units than the GeForce GT 610.
PCI slot in the 2010'swere more commonly used for audio cards. Creative and Asus both had huge problems selling PCI-E audio cards due to driver issues , for some reason it was just a pain in the ass to get a PCI-E audio card to work right , hell i still have my mainboard fail to detect my PCI-E 1x audio card half the time it boots and that's on a Ryzen 2700 system using an asus prime board with the higher end 470 chipset. i wish my ryzen system had a regular PCI slot , i'd go back to using my ancient 7.1 sound blaster card that had a front I/O for it. that card rocked
At this point I'd recommend anyone wanting better-than-onboard audio to go with an external DAC. Much less hassle, and likely better than any internal sound card as long as you get something decent.
I bought a PCI to PCIe adapter like this. I've already done some funny tests, e.g. a GeForce 750 Ti or Radeon 7950 operated with Athlon Thunderbird 1.4 GHz... I recently equipped a Dual Xeon 3.6 GHz system from 2003 with a Radeon R7 250 and 2 GB. Works perfectly, 13,000 points were achieved with 3DMark 2001 SE in 1280 x 1024 and 32 bit.
nice. now overclock the PCI bus to 43mhz and try again. that was a fairly common frequency for PCI slots on an overclocked cpu. that should help A LOT. i remember my pentium 2 400 running at 600mhz had the pci slot running at around 50mhz. it was an incredible overclock, puzzles me how it worked so long in that frequency. i only used it for 6 months at 600mhz, but it lasted the rest of its 10 years of use running @ 533mhz. it might still work, who knows.
Yepp, I think you missed one major market. Zotac released at the same time a LOT of mini-ITX boards, with pretty weak integrated GFX. Back at the time I wanted to build a really small PC, but because of the weak built-in gfx I dropped the idea to work with ZOTAC. Why? Because all those ITX boards they offered had only one PCI and one PCI-X1 slot. None of them good for the GFX cards. (As I was not aware of the tested PCI GFX cards, these Zotac ITX boards fell out of my interest.) In fact a lot of not-so-old Dell, HP and Fujitsu office Mini PC had only one PCI slot. They are pretty snd silent, but NOK for gaming. As you could see, one of the two offering is a Low Profile card, developped exactly to this purpose to fit into slim mini PCs (these mini barebones have no riser card) With even such a limited PCI GFX cards such PCs could be turned into something little more useful at home.
I remember being 13 and still having a old hp pc I was using and all of had was one pci slot when agp was the standard. Happened again with my next pc, all I had was agp when pcie came out lol. I had a x1350 pro agp if I remember correctly, was an Xmas gift from my uncle
Interesting... I may consider getting a 430 for a BOINC rig. BOINC doesn't demand that much bandwidth, and I've got a spare PCI slot in this one rig so might as well fill it with something.
I got one of these, they just have a PCIe to PCI bridge chip on board, you can buy adapters to adapt any PCIe card to PCI. The main problem lies with the BIOS not posting on older machines, in a Pentium II retro build I tried all my cards and only the Quadro NVS 295 would POST.
I remember my first PC and even my 2nd PC still had ISA slots. My first video card was ISA card with 512kb of RAM i.e. VGA. My 2nd card was PCI with 8mb RAM.
I am guessing that a retro gamer would be better off with running a modern card in a modern system and an older win98 system with an older card. These are likely so new that they don't fully support the older graphics modes.
Glad I found this. I have an FX5200 in my GX 520 PC I got for older titles, not TERRIBLE, but I think it's the best I'll get for a low profile PCI video card, unless there's a better alternative on the dell's PSU. 220/250w I think
If you want to play around further, there are pci to pcie bridges available on ebay. I'm guessing these modern pci cards has some sort of bridge as well. Bridges were common during the agp -> pcie transition at least.
Would be fun to see the video where you try to overclock PCI bus just to squeeze a tiny bit more of extra bandwith. 80MHz? Same with slight overclock of memory on GT430
the systems these cards typically end up into have graphics like intel gma 950 or even much worse and only had pci slots. sure the cards aren't great, but they are still orders of magnitude better than having something like intel 82845g graphics...
I'm sorry but to blame it entirely on the PCI slot is a tad misleading. A huge part of the performance issue is also the lack of memory bandwidth. Which is extremely important, especially in games. Even a RTX 3090 would be brought to it's knees if it suddenly only had 64bits of memory. Even if that memory was still GDDR6.
My B350 Tomahawk has two PCI slots. I use one for a USB 4-port card. I thought of using a sound card in the other, but onboard sound is adequate on the B350...
Would be great to see a video of the AGP nVidia 6800 Ultra 256MB GDDR3 vs AGP Radeon HD 4670 1GB GDDR3. The Radeon was a last ditch effort to get a ridiculous GPU on an AGP slot. But if I recall correctly, the 6800Ultra scores better in some scenarios. I have both cards for my Pentium 4HT EE build (Socket 478, ABit IC7-Max3) so if you want me to run some tests, let me know 🤙
Installed that exact Zotac gt610 in a revival build of a dell dimmension 3000 a few years back. The motherboard has NO agp slots so it was the only option I had to get stuff to work properly in windows 7. The system has a single core intel processor @3ghz and I maxed out the DDR ram at 2gb. It works TH-cam and Facebook fine and he is able to play some lesser demanding older games however the system itself can be slow at times and obviously won't run newer titles.
So what do you think these cards would be useful for? Seems like they're a product looking for a problem. Though for me, they're a fascinating novelty!
i bought the GT610 to get hardware accelerated video decoding and at least some form of 3D gaming capability on intel atom systems.
this was really a big upgrade. when this card is paired with an atom 330 or D525, games like portal 2 are playable on medium settings @ 1360x768 and thanks to the hardware mpeg4 decoding, steam in home streaming is an option for more demanding games.
1080p movies with kodi are no problem and i can also watch youtube videos in 720p on the atom 330 and even 1080p on the D525 (32bit windows 8.1 with chrome browser)
if you need to see it with your own eyes to believe it:
/watch?v=nC6QRRWt21g (GT 610 PCI + Atom D525)
Very cool! I love hearing stories in which this odd card is actually useful!
old pc that you want to run old games or software on that dont play good with todays os and drivers that came before agp. i keep an over powered agp card in my old windows xp machine. if it has drivers it works why not. i have a sony vaio pc from 1997 that has only pci and if it has windows 98 drivers i would put one of these in it. the other vaio pc i have is my 3dfx pc.
i think PCs from the 90's are better off with a card that matches the time period. i would not go above and beyond a geforce 5000 or 6000 series if i want to put the card in a late 90's pentium 3. you would probably not be able to fully utilize the GT610 on this machine. a PCI Geforce 5500 might be more available, a bit cheaper to get and has windows 9x drivers.
I have a Zotac 9500GT PCI, and found it was bottle necked majorly by
PCI, I found that even when it seemed to have a decent frame rate it was really stuttery and there was a lot of screen tearing. Also when ever there was an HDD access it pretty much froze whatever I was doing then it stuttered back to a normal frame rate. I don't think that these GPUs have really any good use, If you want multiple monitors FX5200/FX5500 PCI cards seem to be a lot more common and cheap. I play around with old computers and probably the fastest system with only PCI slots is going to be a socket 478 that only supports 533mhz FSB CPUs and even the fastest P4 are often too slow to use the modern internet and stream video, and even the hardware video decoder probably doesn't get enough bandwidth over PCI to really help compared to CPU decoding + AGP GPU integrated into the chipset. These GPUs are kind of neat from a collecting stand point, but it's probably better to just buy a different motherboard with AGP and a decent AGP GPU, old PCI only systems really aren't worth upgrading.
We need a gtx 1080 Ti PCI version c'mon zotac do it
LOL I could always borrow one from a friend and get a PCIe-to-PCI adapter...
+PixelPipes they make such an adapter ???
i have been wanting to pair my 1080 ti with an old 478 celeron but finding the right board, while doable is a bit pricey
Louis Greenleaf Indeed!
PixelPipes so the card will run at a Max of less than 1%
I used a GT610 and GT520 (both PCIe) to drive four monitors for quite a while. When the GT520 died, I finally upgraded to a single 750Ti. The 610 sits in a drawer as an emergency backup, but if you want to do a head to head comparison, I'm willing to part with it.
I remember back in 2006 I tried to find a semi-decent PCI card for a friend, he wanted to upgrade an old desktop that our school had thrown out as he didn't own a PC and desperately wanted one that would play at least some games. The only catch was it had to be local and with cash (we were 14 at the time and didn't have bank accounts). Anyway long story short it took months and months until finally I found a GeForce FX 5500 looking all alone in the back of a local PC repair store, the guy forgot he even had it and let me take it off his hands for £5! Paired with the modest (but surprisingly powerful for a school PC) 3ghz Celeron D and a 1gb DDR stick I gave him the old beige monster had a new lease of life!
He ended up getting a new PC a year later but even so, that little workhorse gave him countless of hours of entertainment, even if it mostly came in the
Great Story, thank you for sharing it!
Somedays ago I found a couple of "brand new" intel mini-itx motherboards from 2007, still in their boxes with celeron 1.2 ghz, 1gb of ram and only 1 pci slot... Thanks to your video and the zotac cards I am now able to transform this vintage pieces of hardware into some still useful and compact media centers, thanks!
if anyone`s interested, you can see the making of here: instagram.com/stories/highlights/17908046074520367/
Perhaps in the future you could do a similar video about the AGP slot. Great video.
That card might be the Sapphire Radeon HD 3850 AGP.
I have a 4650 AGP - ridiculously fast
Both 4670 and 3850 REQUIRE a Core 2 Duo/Core 2 Quad class CPU to be fully used. HD 3850 512MB is a good bit faster than 4670 1GB DDR3 in everything (I tested this myself) - and yes, I used QX9770 @ 3,84GHz and WInXP :D
Proof : i.imgur.com/fnwnEBY.png
Heh I still have my Powercolor Radeon HD 3850, I never tested how much/if bottle-necked it was... I Was rockin a Athlon 64 3200+ and played fallout 3 ok before I retired the build.
Pith Helmet I had that 4670 His. It was a good card, silent fastest AGP ever made.
The Voodoo 5 (PCI) was my first ever GPU. I loved it after I bought it to play the first Hitman.
I actually never owned an AGP card, oddly. When "The Screen Savers" first detailed AGP I was jealous but by the time I got out of the old PCI architecture, I bought the new PCI-e architecture.
I only ever owned one AGP card myself. it was a CAD-card, and was significantly less powerful then basically any PCI card still being sold. (Oxygen Labs VX1), the next graphics card I bought was a GT520 in PCIE. AGP was pretty much always the domain of the high-end, and was thus never as popular as the standard that came before (PCI) or the standard that replaced it (PCIE).
I remember being blown away by the GT520 when I got it (The PCIE model absolutely obliterates it's PCI counterpart, you even can manage Asassin's Creed Revelations if you turn the settings to garbage)
I only bought one. It was an ATI Radeon HD 3650. Beat Mass Effect with it. Moved on to PCIe after.
Around 2011 I used the Zotac 520 to make a number of industrial PCs compatible with Windows 7. Intel never upgraded their drivers for their older P4 chipsets and industrial computers didn't have AGP or PCI-E at the time (at least not the ones they purchased) The improved stability of Windows 7 was important enough to justify the expense of like 20 of these things. They did the business, and they were fanless, but in 2020 they're not much to look at!
I feel like i have to note that all 3dfx cards in agp format were only marginally better than their pci counter part because they weren't real agp cards. They were actually pci cards that ran in the agp 66 mhz bus. They never took advantage of the agp features! One way to experience this is by opening directx and seeing that the agp stuff is grayed out.
Back on topic; I'm curious to see how the 8400gs and 9200 cards stand with the ones you tested. They should theoretically perform less, but I wonder if pci is such a bottle neck that they would perform similarly.
I like your presentation of ideas, so I just subbed!
Man your channel deserves way more.
Greatly impressed by you.
Keep up the good work!
Love from Pakistan.
You've earned another subscriber thanks to this informative video. I've owned the Zotac GT430 and the GT520 for a few years. Like you, I was also searching for the fastest PCI graphics cards ever produced.
The 430 is currently installed in my Dell Dimension 2400 running XP with 2GB of DDR RAM and a 3.06GHz Northwood P4 CPU with hyperthreading. This machine is maxed out and my main XP retro gaming PC.
I plan on purchasing a smaller heatsink/fan for the 520 to make it low profile so it fits in my mini ITX Atom D410 with 3GB DDR2 running XP. I'm still looking for a good deal on a GT610 so I can complete my collection.
They're tough cards to find! Pretty awesome that you're actually using them!
I'm sure you've heard this before but.......HOLY SHIT do you look like Gordon Freeman !!!!
Actually no I haven't! LOL
any chance you can hold next time a crowbar ?
Frankie Boyle
Robb Stark for me.
He sure doesn't sound like Gordon Freeman though
u should lower the volume of the background track
Yes plz! Or change it! So distracting ..
I agree. Its wayy too loud and distracting.
Found your channel researching for the fastest PCI GPU cause i am building a showbuild what should be a super fast watercooled 486 with pci slots. Enough rambling, glad I found your channel!! Will check out all your newer content now!!!
It's 2022 and with the increasing interest in retro computing/gaming, this kind of video is extremely helpful. I just picked up a Dell with a P4 for some retro XP gaming and it has a PCI motherboard... I could use the onboard graphics, but I definitely want to beef it up with period correct hardware. Great video!
old bulgie dells are cheaper and upgradable
Depending on the XP era you're pursuing, you can get some real budget mileage moving up to a pcie board. PCI cheaper to target directX 9 or below so more 98SE or Win2K. If you go that route, the GeForce 6200 can handle pretty much all I throw at it in 98SE. For XP I run three variations mostly, my most used would be my mATX DDR3 ASUS LGA 775 board with a GTX 680. Completely overkill, but plays everything in XP I could possibly want without emulation. I can run up to 1333 with my Q9650 but had a bunch of 2GB 1066 matching sets, so went with that.
I've got a lot of old good 775 systems here with anywhere from celerons to core 2 duo and core 2 quad, but can't find a good agp card, even old kinda useless agp cards are too damn hard to buy here
@@evandrochaves9596 that's a shame, what games are you hoping to target? ATI options are out there as well. The 9500 pro is good, X1600 may also work. If you're shooting for 98SE/ME/2000/Early XP these should work. On the nVidia side you may also want to look into the workstation cards as I don't think there's any demand for them
Thank you so much for your research. There are people like me who are hit with the "upgrade bug" when coming across an older machine or rig. Having to sift through outdated forum posts on google can be misleading. Thank you for taking the time to ask and answer the question "The Fastest Graphics card on a PCI Bus" .
Hail to the Voodoo 3D pass through graphics accelerator
4MB of Glide Goodness :)
when SLI stood for Scan Line interleave
Playing NFS 2 SE and driving the tombstone!
this is damn good you do deserve an lgr type following
That's a high compliment!
well, in 2004 - 2008 most motherboard only had 1 PCI-Express slot (except the most high end motherboard like Intel 975X or nForce 680i SLI chipset), if your PCI-Express slot is died or got a short circuit but you won't buy a new motherboard, those "PCI Graphic Card" actually usefull as long as you're not a gamer.
Back in 2006 I had ATI Radeon 9250 PCI edition because my intel D945 PLRN had PCI-Express slot issue, but since that pc primarily just for office works, i didn't really care about graphic card performance.
Yep very true. They're good just for troubleshooting in general.
Just picked up the PCI Geforce GT 610 thanks to this video! I know i heard around 2 years ago that there was the fastest AGP card, but never got my hands on it.
AGP? No, fastest PCI maybe. Fastest AGP is 3850 (or 3870, but most likely only one or two of those prototypes exist in the world).
@@Denis-Maldonado Got a working XFX 7800 GS AGP in my collection.
If I remeber correctly it's the fastest AGP card from team green.
450 MHz core
256 MB
1.320 MHz memory
256 bit bus
42.240 MB/s bandwidth
SUBBED! I'm glad to be in the first 400 subscribers. This channel is going places.
Such a small channel yet so much quality and potential. You've earned another subscriber and I hope and am sure to see more come as time goes on. Good job :)
This is actually a very well done channel! I can see it rising in popularity with enough effort involved even working uphill against the new regulations TH-cam's introducing or has introduced as of this comment (I'm unclear on when it was going to be or anything though).
Just out of interest,. what new regs are these? I've a couple of friends collaborate on running a channel and they can't figure out what's being 'tweaked'..
Great video as hell!! I can't believe that this small channel has a very very high quality content!!! Im the 800 subscriber 😍😍😍
Thank you! Welcome aboard!
I rember seeing this exact video some years ago, and i still think you are the only one on the planet, who covered this topic... GREAT BRO!
I know in the grand scheme it wouldn't have really made much difference, but I always wished PC makers had mimicked what Apple did in the late 1990s, speaking of switching to 64-bit/33mhz PCI slots. The increase from 133MB total bandwidth to 266MB wouldn't be much in regard to the later PCIe standard, but it would have kept the PCI bus more relevant in the 2000s...and that doesn't even include moving to 64-bit/66mhz standard or PCI-X, all of which were backwards compatible and would have pushed the limits even further, etc.
If you do the PCIe 1x GPU, just note you can use any GPU and either cut the right side of the PCIe motherboard slot and plug in the GPU, or you can use a $5 GPU riser.
I've ran an RX 470 on one of those 1x riser cables when I bought it used. It seemed to do ok in Firestrike, though performance was lower, I don't think it was down to half (also probably limited by the Celeron and 4gb of ram the guy was running).
Yes, VERY good point, and something I want to look into as well!
Hey Pixel Pipes thanks for the video! In regards to the web slow downs I found even the Nvidia 6200 (pci-e) was barely enough for TH-cam playback at 480P video. (core 2 duo e6750, 2.6 ghz) A GT 730 2 gig ddr5 gave 1080p smoothly. Finding a quality GPU for a legacy build is a must. I think I've found a FX 5600 pci and need to research for best compatibility with older games. Again thank you for the informative concise content on this topic.
Good video, only the music is too loud.
There are Fujitsu Siemens HTPCs called Activy, which were very popular with Linux VDR. Older Activy models only had PCI, but cards like those in the video allow HD playback in those systems and also very good scaling and deinterlacing thanks to VDPAU compatibility.
Believe it or, PCI slots still exist on some modern motherboards today. Last year I built a PC with a B360 Coffee Lake Motherboard and it has a PCI slot!
My first video card I saved money for and bought myself was a Voodoo 3 3000 PCI. I had a crappy ECS micro ATX socket 370 board that didn't have an AGP slot. It still ran quite well for the time and I was really happy. But I was playing games from the mid 90s on a P3 500mhz, so pretty much overkill. However, the motherboard died maybe a year after our family got the computer and we replaced it (and the case) with a far superior full ATX DFI board. That upgrade alone made the computer run twice as fast. Eventually I upgraded the video card to a Radeon 7500 and it still sits in my Dad's basement. But back to the Voodoo 3 PCI card, around the same time I got the Radeon, I responded to an ad on Craigslist from someone looking for a decent PCI video card he was willing to trade for an AGP Voodoo 5! I asked him if he would trade and he said he desperately needed the card for a server he was running, so I ended up with a Voodoo 5 and was absolutely thrilled! ...It wasn't any better than the Radeon 7500 lol
Oh nice trade! Hope you still have the V5
@@PixelPipes Sadly, I do not. But I did manage to acquire a Voodoo4 in a trade, which I still have. I traded this guy for a bunch of stuff that I later found out were a bunch of Newegg returns. Almost everything I traded for was broken, including a really nice (and I think pretty rare) Amd slot A motherboard with an 850mhz CPU. The Voodoo 4 was one of the only things that actually worked!
These cards were useful for people who had all their PCIe ports/bandwidth used by RAID and network cards. Now that CPU integrated graphics is in most chips and works they do not serve any purpose except more displays for which they are inexpensive.
By coincidence I just pulled out my VIA miniITX from the old gear drawer this morning to see if it will run LibreElec, and your video just showed on the youtube list. :D
this video saved me! For the past hour I've been trying to find a graphics card for PCI (My pc does not have AGP or PCIe) thank you!
That may be the first time this video was actually relevant to anyone!
We just found one of the five people I mentioned in my comment! :O (in all seriousness though, you've got to give it to old PCs for their undying longevity)
let it rest in peace...
Use PCIe to PCI adapters. I used those earlier. Worked with R9 280X cards, I guess they work with newer cards aswell. Only tested in Linux.
So, you can technically install a RTX 2080 ti on a PCI slot?
Yeah but the bandwidth would get cut in like 1/4 or something.
@@tabernaclejones6115 i think a lottttt more
@@TheAdatto yeah i mean i guess 1/16th right ? guess ill google it lol
@@tabernaclejones6115 1/120 compared to pci e 3.0 x 16 (computer.howstuffworks.com/pci-express2.htm)
I thought the last pci card was the geforce gt210, didnt realise they did newer cards!
Recently I just bought a geforce 6200 pci card 3 month ago, rather than having to use my old tnt card!
Well to be fair I think the GeForce 210 PCI stayed in production longer any of the other DX10+ cards. So it's not the newest "architecturally" but it might be among the last you could still buy brand new.
Awesome video, I've always wondered how something like this would stack up when tested. After eyeballing the data, it appears that the performance is limited to something around the level of a Geforce2 GTS with older games. It's interesting to see them perform better under newer titles, must be some driver optimization issues with older games.
Zotac also makes a half height GTX 1050 Ti for SFF PCs, currently the most powerful half height card available.
Now also the 1650 joined the party.
@@odioalospoopers should of been the super
I can confirm that the 1650 low profile version works fine in most HP SFF PCs, even a 2nd gen. i5 Quadcore turns this way into a gaming machine. Temps are quite high, but can be fixed by setting a higher cpu/case fan speed in the BIOS.
1650 low profile gddr6 version is ever so slighly faster
@@virtualtools_3021 I stuck the 1650 in my Elite 8300, replaced my 1050. I really don't need this system for much of anything, mostly just testing stuff but it is a lot of fun making old hardware handle modern stuff reasonably well. I also have a maxed out rp5700, that also runs windows 10 reasonably well on a 1X GT 710. I tried to track down that 1X Gt 730 that Zotac made but that seems to be a true unicorn.
Ahh. You're killin me here. These cards are built on PCIe bridge chips to do the dirty work of converting a native PCI Express GPU to a PCI interface. That doesn't always work out well. My application is in a 200MHz Pentium Pro retro system I put together; Pentium Pro is the grandfather of all modern Intel architecture. That board only has PCI. It also doesn't play nice at all with any cards using one of those bridge chips -- they work, but performance is abysmal (slideshow status for Quake 3 on a 8400). So I did some research on it. Turns out, the GeForce 6200 was the last chip to offer native PCI support -- and it's a perfect balance. The card has 256MB RAM. So does the PC! ;) And it works well, running Quake 3 at playable rates in full HD (1080) resolution. That 6200 also barely overlaps working drivers (without requiring MMX or SSE) in both XP and 98.
Holy sheet bro.... production quality is great, pci never looked sooo good!!
some older OEM system like some DELLs had no AGP/PCI-E slots, thats the only utility i could think off for these cards. I have a DELL optiplex which has the PCI-E slot blanked out.
also my first PC didnt had PCI-E or AGP much to my chagrin as i wanted better graphics performance or to get certains to run at all. (was a pentium 3 era machine, i had a 1.0Ghz Celeron)
3dfx Voodoo 5 5500 PCI (not only MAC version) is very special because this board is natively compatible with PCI 66mhz (266Mb/sec) standard if plugged on a motherboard PCI-X slot or via some PCI-to-PCIE converters supporting 66 mhz.
Bit off putting having the music when giving the results.The main focus of the video and some funko pop in the background meh.
just shake dat ass bitch and let me see what you got!
TheDutyPaid I love the music makes me horny
“funko pop”
Lol
Nice presentation. Surprising what's around out there! Very good channel. There are quite a few excellent channels out there that need more subscribers - and this is one ;) I'm off to look at the other vids now.
Thank you! I hope you enjoy!
Related: I have a GT610 PCI and was curious about its DOS performance. It would only work in text mode. Switching to any graphics mode froze the machine. So while it's definitely not an ultimate solution for a hybrid retro box, it still does blow away a lot of old tech in raw 3d performance.
Nvidia and AMD have long since dropped support for legacy DOS VESA modes, which most DOS games require to function. I think the last GPUs to offer VESA support were released in 2004-2005.
The few OpenGL/Glide based DOS games might still run if you can find a wrapper that works in DOS.
Some card manufacturer supports VBE3.
Example:
Collorfull NVIDIA GTX 295 VBE3
Saphire Radeon 9750 VBE3
The problem is, that a lot of old DOS games use the outdatet modlist from VBE1.x, but not the modelist from the display device of newer cards since Geforce.
vbe3.pdf from vesa.org :
Starting with VBE version 2.0, VESA will no longer define new VESA mode numbers and it will no longer be mandatory to support these old mode numbers.
Since VBE2 we have to get the modenumbers from the modelist of the card bios.
1.) With function 4F00 we can get the VESA BIOS Info in a buffer of 512 bytes.
Buffer+14 contains the pointer(seg:Offset) to the modelist. Each modenumber is a 16 bit value. The list ends with FFFF.
2.) With function 4F01 and together with the modenumbers from the list we can get the mode specific information of each modenumber one by one in a secondary buffer of 256 bytes, for to compare if the resolution and color depth is comfortable.
I played Fallout 3 and fallout New Vegas on my Radeon 2400 PCI card, 25 FPS on low settings. It was a Dell Dimension 2400! In fact I think I will dust down the old workhorse and see what it can run today! Great video by the way!
Author has prolly tried 'em already, but the Single PCIe 1.0 x1 lane (claimed 33/66mhz) PCI adapters (PEX8112* PCIePCI bridge) w/ a powered riser will *technically* allow any legacy-bios bootable modern GPU to 'work'. (I may or may not have tried this on a MI25 turned not-a-WX9100 16GB HBM2 in a NF2200Pro dual-940 board. for fun...) Keep in mind many boards will potentially run them 33Mhz/133MB/s rather than PCI 2.1(1997)-> supported 66Mhz/266MB/s. (I'm still playing with the 2 adapters I have, and 'figuring out' their limitations.) Heads-up: Those same PCIPCIe bridge adapter cards work w/ NVME drives. Ex. Adding 'Intel Optane' to an early-2000s PC is an amusingly anachronistic experience. *Oh, BTW: Same PEX8112 is on many low-end and early PCIe cards in PCI-build. (in other words, you can use a 'PCI X1300/x1550' to test how a system reacts to the PEX8112).
There's also PCI 33mhz and PCI 66mhz, and 32bit and 64bit versions of both. The least of which (33mhz 32bit) is 133MB/s bandwidth. And the fastest (66mhz 64bit) is 533MB/s bandwidth.
Did anybody else spot the swollen capacitor at 0:16? Top of screen between the IO ports and the CPU. Looks swollen to me anyway. I replaced so many boards and power supplies as a field tech during the late unpleasantness of the Great Capacitor Plague that it is the very first thing I look for on every component I see. P.S. This video earned you a new sub :) Good stuff, thanks for all your hard work.
Yeah a viewer pointed it out earlier. That old DFI board is finally getting up there in age! Thanks for subscribing!
It makes me wonder how these cards would do in a Classic Win95/98/Dos PC from the mid-late 90's. If there are drivers for said operating systems it would sure be a worthwhile upgrade path for people looking to run classic games with the best possible graphics quality settings.
There aren't any 9x drivers for these cards. Officially, the 6000 series are the last Nvidia GPUs to support 9x but there are unofficial drivers for the 7000 series
I was fully expecting you to put a Nvidia RTX 3080 in a PSI slot via some conversion method...
I really love your channel I hope you'll get the 10k subs soon!!! :)
I really like all your videos and the fact that you're calm and giving interesting information in this world of "lol entertainment", thank you ! I may have an idea of video for you : test or talk about PCi-Express in old OSs like Windows 9X/ME. because it's not natively supported and it could be interesting to make PCIe work for new motherboards in old OSs. I think it could be so cool to have a platform that can test like 20 years of graphics card etc.
Keep up like that dude :)
I have plans for something like that in the future!
Nice ! I just worked a little bit that morning on making a PCIe graphics card (gtx 550) work with KernelEX in Win98SE. If you didn't know it's a software that allows you to choose program's compatibility with newer OSs like Windows 2000, XP SP2, Vista etc. but nothing relevant. Also I tried the card to be recognized as an older card like geforce 6800 gt but again nothing
Recently used a PCI VGA card in a server to free up a PCI-e slot for another device. Works great.
3dfx worked by leveraging clever compression. It is no surprise that they could still function fine when bandwidth was severely limited.
Ahhh, I remember pairing a GT 520 with my Thinkpad T30 as my main computer until late 2013. Did it because I was poor and saving up for a custom PC. The laptop had a 1.8ghz Pentium 4 M and 512mb RAM. I got Crysis 2 to run on lowest settings, 720p, and about 15~ FPS.
Dragonslayer182 you absolute madman
I also had to prop the dock up with books and leave the PCI Access panel open because the heatsink was so huge!
Great for movie playback on an old system back in the day
It makes you wonder when performance effectively "stopped" on PCI bus and how many redundant iterations were sold between that "stop" and the cards featured here.
Yeah for sure, which is why I intend to address that very question in the near future.
do overclocked pci slots.
pcs were overclocked by changing the FSB and that increase the frequency of all buses too. it wasn't uncommon for pci slots to be running upside of 43mhz
These were all using dirt cheap GPUs from ATI/AMD and NVIDIA though. They used available components at the time to make a PCI graphics card. I don't really think Zotac intended to make a high performing card. It was not like ATI/AMD or NVIDIA made GPU chips specifically for PCI anymore.
@@GraveUypo There is an official 3.3v 66 MHz PCI spec, but it was not widely used outside of workstations and servers. Bandwidth is doubled from 133 to 266 MB/s. PCI-X had even higher clock speeds from 100-533 MHz and bandwidth rivaling the first gen PCIe x16 slot at 4264 MB/s.
Some PCI graphics cards support 66 MHz slots, which is why the PCI edge connector is double keyed, the 66 MHz slot is a reversed PCI slot so normal 5v only cards won't fit in them. Apple had a 66 MHz PCI slot in their B&W G3 because the chipset did not support AGP.
I'd bought a PC back in 2002 and had no idea what AGP X8 was. The PC only had PCI and I'd ended up purchasing a GeForce 2 and GeForce 4 MX 440 and finally the FX 5200 Ultra. I was able to play Halo and DOOM 3 on the last card, but DOOM 3 tanked when a scene with some kind of spider like machine started walking. It was an okay experience.
BTW.. we did NOT go from ISA to PCI. first we used EISA. then ISA+VLB or EISA+VLB. THEN PCI came along. you jumped many years of my computer life with that statement ;) and and i had some different PCI 64 bit card's as well. both 5V and 3.3V and two speed's.
True!
grapsorz You forgot IBM's MicroChannel, lmao.
yes i never used PS/s as it "sucked" and was way to expensive for my taste. all my systems was build by me ;)i actually used amiga ZORRO slots more then MCA. i remember the game port for the MCA was about 6 times the price then it was for ISA.. so no.. not for me.
today i have some MCA based systems. and card's. stil i have more EISA then MCA stuff.
In a retro XP build, I had to source a half height PCI card because the onboard PCIx would not accept any video cards I tried. Turns out, HP, in their screwball logic, disabled the ability to expand the video unless you used an 'add 2' card, which just added a second vga port to the onboard video. My best guess, the computer was meant for office drones and nothing more.
Add 2 cards with DVI were the most common. I had one on my htpc to output to a hdtv. I eventually replaced it with a HD 6450 and all I gained was 10W more power consumption. Obviously 3D is a different story.
when these cards came out webbrowsers werent as demanding.lots of folks on newegg jamed them in pentium 4 pcs
This channel is much higher quality than the sub count would suggest. :) Great work!
How the hell do you only have 700 subs with that production quality shieeeeet.
Great channel - love the name too!
i have a zotac gt 430 pci. i built a retro pc with xp with it and was extremely disappointed with the card. I dont recommend it for retro gaming at all. What i do recommend it for is media capabilities, i can watch youtube at 1080p over its hdmi port with no problems at all on a amd athlon II ! while using windows 10 x64. This was a really informative video gaming related. Of course the card has a very very low power comsumption and if you see one on a flea market, grab it, if you want to revive an old pc for media streaming, if not? let it go.
In terms of overall gaming performance, the graphical capabilities of the Nvidia GeForce GT 430 are significantly better than the Nvidia GeForce GT 610. The GeForce GT 610 has a 110 MHz higher core clock speed than the GeForce GT 430, but the GeForce GT 430 has 8 more Texture Mapping Units than the GeForce GT 610.
If i could find one at a decent price, i would buy to put in my amd duron just because.
Those PCI slots are still useful if you have an old PCI wifi card. Plenty fast enough for online gaming.
I was about to type it was better that get a regual PCI cart but then I saw the benchmarks:)
nice video.
I think its cool to remember where things came from.
You literally and succinctly just described the entire point of my channel. 🥰
Speaking about pci, in my sleeper computer I’m using 2001 modem card and Ethernet with a pci > pci-e x1
Honestly these seem great for server applications in case you either don't have pci or if you're using the pci slots for something else
PCI slot in the 2010'swere more commonly used for audio cards. Creative and Asus both had huge problems selling PCI-E audio cards due to driver issues , for some reason it was just a pain in the ass to get a PCI-E audio card to work right , hell i still have my mainboard fail to detect my PCI-E 1x audio card half the time it boots and that's on a Ryzen 2700 system using an asus prime board with the higher end 470 chipset. i wish my ryzen system had a regular PCI slot , i'd go back to using my ancient 7.1 sound blaster card that had a front I/O for it. that card rocked
At this point I'd recommend anyone wanting better-than-onboard audio to go with an external DAC. Much less hassle, and likely better than any internal sound card as long as you get something decent.
I bought a PCI to PCIe adapter like this. I've already done some funny tests, e.g. a GeForce 750 Ti or Radeon 7950 operated with Athlon Thunderbird 1.4 GHz... I recently equipped a Dual Xeon 3.6 GHz system from 2003 with a Radeon R7 250 and 2 GB. Works perfectly, 13,000 points were achieved with 3DMark 2001 SE in 1280 x 1024 and 32 bit.
nice.
now overclock the PCI bus to 43mhz and try again. that was a fairly common frequency for PCI slots on an overclocked cpu. that should help A LOT.
i remember my pentium 2 400 running at 600mhz had the pci slot running at around 50mhz. it was an incredible overclock, puzzles me how it worked so long in that frequency. i only used it for 6 months at 600mhz, but it lasted the rest of its 10 years of use running @ 533mhz. it might still work, who knows.
Yepp, I think you missed one major market.
Zotac released at the same time a LOT of mini-ITX boards, with pretty weak integrated GFX. Back at the time I wanted to build a really small PC, but because of the weak built-in gfx I dropped the idea to work with ZOTAC.
Why? Because all those ITX boards they offered had only one PCI and one PCI-X1 slot. None of them good for the GFX cards. (As I was not aware of the tested PCI GFX cards, these Zotac ITX boards fell out of my interest.)
In fact a lot of not-so-old Dell, HP and Fujitsu office Mini PC had only one PCI slot. They are pretty snd silent, but NOK for gaming. As you could see, one of the two offering is a Low Profile card, developped exactly to this purpose to fit into slim mini PCs (these mini barebones have no riser card)
With even such a limited PCI GFX cards such PCs could be turned into something little more useful at home.
would have been great to actually see the benchmark test behind those performance charts running
Yes! I'm working towards that very thing! Just need to save a few more pennies.
Imagine how bad RTX 2080 Ti if (somehow) we put it in the PCI slot
my first computer back in early 2000s was a pentium II computer , with no AGP , so I bought a PCI graphic card
I remember being 13 and still having a old hp pc I was using and all of had was one pci slot when agp was the standard. Happened again with my next pc, all I had was agp when pcie came out lol. I had a x1350 pro agp if I remember correctly, was an Xmas gift from my uncle
Oh sure, NOW this pops up in my recomended.
Interesting... I may consider getting a 430 for a BOINC rig. BOINC doesn't demand that much bandwidth, and I've got a spare PCI slot in this one rig so might as well fill it with something.
its probably the pci + very old tests that hold the gpus back
because regular 430/610 are much much faster than ancient geforce 4
Just FYI : PCI slot can handle U3 class microSD card... at minimum specs :D
I wish someone would do a video on the fastest s-video graphics card
I got one of these, they just have a PCIe to PCI bridge chip on board, you can buy adapters to adapt any PCIe card to PCI. The main problem lies with the BIOS not posting on older machines, in a Pentium II retro build I tried all my cards and only the Quadro NVS 295 would POST.
Poll: how long were you trying to figure out who was Mario talking to on host's t-shirt?
I remember my first PC and even my 2nd PC still had ISA slots. My first video card was ISA card with 512kb of RAM i.e. VGA. My 2nd card was PCI with 8mb RAM.
Excellent video. Subscribed.
One of these would be ideal for the old Shuttle PC I'm buying which only has PCI.
I am guessing that a retro gamer would be better off with running a modern card in a modern system and an older win98 system with an older card. These are likely so new that they don't fully support the older graphics modes.
Glad I found this. I have an FX5200 in my GX 520 PC I got for older titles, not TERRIBLE, but I think it's the best I'll get for a low profile PCI video card, unless there's a better alternative on the dell's PSU. 220/250w I think
i've used one of this PCI Zotac and still have this card in my collection i think
If you want to play around further, there are pci to pcie bridges available on ebay. I'm guessing these modern pci cards has some sort of bridge as well. Bridges were common during the agp -> pcie transition at least.
Would be fun to see the video where you try to overclock PCI bus just to squeeze a tiny bit more of extra bandwith. 80MHz? Same with slight overclock of memory on GT430
the systems these cards typically end up into have graphics like intel gma 950 or even much worse and only had pci slots. sure the cards aren't great, but they are still orders of magnitude better than having something like intel 82845g graphics...
It was so hard finding a non agp pci card back in the day when agp was king. Ah good times.
Awesome job:) Keep up the great work ^^
DoomX Gaming Thank you!
Didn't they also have PCI-X used on servers and workstations that had higher bandwidth then standard PCI?
I'm sorry but to blame it entirely on the PCI slot is a tad misleading. A huge part of the performance issue is also the lack of memory bandwidth. Which is extremely important, especially in games. Even a RTX 3090 would be brought to it's knees if it suddenly only had 64bits of memory. Even if that memory was still GDDR6.
My B350 Tomahawk has two PCI slots. I use one for a USB 4-port card. I thought of using a sound card in the other, but onboard sound is adequate on the B350...
So are there cards that support all three? Because that would be the ultimate test now, wouldn't it.
Would be great to see a video of the AGP nVidia 6800 Ultra 256MB GDDR3 vs AGP Radeon HD 4670 1GB GDDR3.
The Radeon was a last ditch effort to get a ridiculous GPU on an AGP slot.
But if I recall correctly, the 6800Ultra scores better in some scenarios.
I have both cards for my Pentium 4HT EE build (Socket 478, ABit IC7-Max3) so if you want me to run some tests, let me know 🤙
Installed that exact Zotac gt610 in a revival build of a dell dimmension 3000 a few years back. The motherboard has NO agp slots so it was the only option I had to get stuff to work properly in windows 7. The system has a single core intel processor @3ghz and I maxed out the DDR ram at 2gb. It works TH-cam and Facebook fine and he is able to play some lesser demanding older games however the system itself can be slow at times and obviously won't run newer titles.