How Odometer Fraud Became A $1 Billion Problem
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2024
- Odometer fraud is a stealthy and a lesser known form of fraud that is hard to detect, but can cost a car buyer thousands. Fraudsters will roll back odometers on cars to hide the vehicle's mileage in the hope of extracting a better price. And as used car prices rose during the pandemic, odometer fraud could've become a more attractive way to make some extra bucks. About 10.5 million cars on American roads have had their odometers tampered with in some way, and about 1.9 million individuals have had their odometers rolled back, according to Carfax. The average cost to those affected is about $4,000 in addition to higher taxes. It is enough of a problem that there is even a federal Office of Odometer Fraud Investigation at the U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administation (NHTSA) It is staffed by agents investigating these types of crimes. The department estimates that about 400,000 vehicles are sold each year with false odometer readings.
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
01:28 - Chapter 1: Fraud
03:10 - Chapter 2: Enforcement
05:03 - Chapter 3: Victims
09:56 - Chapter 4: The Problem of Technology
Produced by: Robert Ferris
Editor: Jacob Harrell
Camera: Shawn Baldwin
Senior Managing Producer: Tala Hadavi
Graphics: Jason Reginato
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How Odometer Fraud Became A $1 Billion Problem - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I used to work at an auto wholesaler, the amount of fraud they did was staggering. Punching out airbag lights, check engine lights, etc. Carfax killed a lot of that, thank God.
With the lights being removed that’s why the do a light check when you put the car on accessory with engine off.
Hah, I once had a car that i could not get the CEL off - Bank 0 running lean - I changed the injectors, regulator, fuel pump, O2 sensors, etc. It would work for a bit, then come on again. Car ran absolutely fine, fuel efficiency on par with what it should be, no oil/coolant consumption. At the time, the emissions testing was done by sticking a probe in the tail pipe, but they would not do it if there was a CEL. So, using an LED and a 555 timer, (and a bunch of support parts) and a Radio Shack manual, I made a circuit that would turn the LED on for 5 seconds, and stuffed the LED where the bulb would go. The car passed no problem, well under the NOx, CO, and particulate emissions. Something must have happened to the wiring, as when the test was done and the tech was getting out of the car, the CEL turned on - he saw it and was like, "Well. you passed anyhow, $32.50 please." The resistor driving the 555 timer shorted to the LED (which turned off as it slowly burned out) turning it on. I never put the CEL back in, and 3 years later the car was sold for scrap.
@@the_kombinator I miss radio shack. Long live the 555 IC! Made many projects with that chip and occasionally still do.
This is why all your check engine type lights come on with the key if anyone was wondering. Make sure they all come on when you turn the key!
Yea and a obd scanner
Last year I bought a used car, 2008 Volkswagen off a Facebook marketplace seller. The car was advertised to have 98 thousand miles. I test drove the car I liked it and purchased it. I was only 18 and it was all my money and I just wanted a better car then the one I had. As I was driving home I was looking at the title and the title stated the car had 170,000 miles in 2014. Told my mom what I had noticed on the paper, she left her job that second drive 45 minutes to this guys shop, and she tore this guy a new one. He immediately gave the money back, after she threatened to call the police and take him to court.
I love Mom's sometimes they have some superpowers. I remember when I was in Asia, I was a kid that was picked on by some local gangsters at a local Computer place, the gangsters showed up and started picking on me to the point I was crying, the owner told me to go home. I went home sobbing and my Mom asked what happened, I thought it was nothing she could do about it. She saw I had cigarette burns on the back of my neck and hands. She called her boyfriend at the time who was a Yakuza boss, I didn't know him well, but he showed up with two minions and drove me to the computer place and told me to point out who did it to me, I didn't rat them out. The next day I was riding my bike and they chased me down and apologized and took me out to lunch and had my back ever since. I later to find out my Mom's boyfriend was a well connected gangster and they were extremely scared of him.
Had something somewhat similar to this happen
r/ thathappened
I hope mamma bear reported it anyway, to prevent the next person being defrauded.
Wow.
Your mom looks cool to decide whether call the police or not.
Sounds like gonna go brrr...
if i was a cop this would be what i would strive to get into. scammers bother me more than any other type of crime. they hurt people. often creating mental scars for life and are so pompous about what they do.
As if they don’t have enough stuff to do 😂😂😂😂🤡
@@XX-166
Like locking people up for minor drug possession? You can't even comprehend what the guy wrote and you're calling him a clown. He didn't suggest that all police officers should stop everything else they do and use all their resources catching people that are guilty of this type of crime, he said if he was a police officer, this is what he'd strive to get into. Probably meaning that he'd work in the fraud department. I know nobody asked but if I was a police officer, I'd strive to make it so we could lock people up who argue by attacking a straw-man, like you just did...
I totally agree with this. This reminds me of the call scams where they steal tens of thousands of dollars from people in their 80s/90s because they don't know any better. It makes me want to move to Kolkata and hunt them down.
@Will Rivers the police don’t work alone.. there’s prosecutors that have a job to do after the apprehension Forrest.
@@zatomlzxzanamolzy1253 it’s nice that you’ve assigned yourself as his public relations girl. You wear that skirt proudly goober. Too bad your minor marijuana case didn’t go well for you.
I literally just picked up my car from my mechanic, that happens to be a good friend of mine and he told me that his computer shows that my car has 300,000+ miles on it and the odometer shows less than 200,000. Thinking about who I purchased my car from I can totally see them doing this. Very furious right now.
what car is it?
@@Ariel0104 2011 Chevy Cruze
In NZ we have Carjam where you can check the milage that gets updated every WOF (yearly safety check) so you can see if there's anomalies
@@robinlecouteur7519 We have a similar company called Carfax here in the USA.
What computer did he use to identify the real mileage
Sad part about this is who’s getting screwed, and most of the time is people with low credit scores that cannot afford to buy at a big reputable dealer, and end up at BHPH dealers.
People with low credit scores there because they weren't taught about the importance of credit, but now that it's bad they can fix it
people with low credits scores are the dumbest people in society
Doesn’t matter what dealership you buy from, reputable dealers screw people over all the time… you run this risk when buying a used vehicle
@@Felixdon56 Generally also means that they are dumber as well
WHAT IS BHPH?
I was warned by a exotic car dealership in Toronto to never buy a luxury car or exotic that didn't have extensive service records. Also said doctors, lawyers and accountants were some of his biggest customers for this service.
Same goes for women too.
@@whatwasisaying1338 wHAT IS YOUR COMMENT?
@@SuperGuanine 🍅
I would be on notice even talking to an exotics dealer, even if they did offer records because those aren't hard to fake. The people who try to turn profit on that gig almost always find out the hard way that rolling profits from one customer to another eventually ends in a fraud case. It's not quite the profitable business people might imagine it is dealing in collector cars, it can be a volatile speculative market. Naive me worked for one of them for 3 months, that dealer ended up in jail 5 years down the road and several other dealers where friends bought cars have open investigations with all the same tumbling dominos of circumstance. Especially any of those which do consignment, you just never know if you'll get the title for the McLaren you bought or wonder why the bank still wants payments on a car you sold. It is unfortunately a very common story in the exotic car communities.
@@MissMaserati the main reason exotic car owners face issues like those regarding fraud is because most of them can't reasonably afford the cars from a reputable place anyway and so they resort to buying their exotic and luxury cars from shady people that forge paper work and roll back odometers.
I worked in a car dealership and the guys that did this made me sick , where I worked the owner knew and said it was the American way to make a profit and the other guys were doing it so we had to do it as well . I quit my job and started doing other types of work because it was across the board in everything.
Instead of reporting it? Thanks Dwayne
@@Rust_Rust_Rust yeah dwayne
@@Rust_Rust_Rust It's so widespread what is D's reportage going to change? A drop in a bucket? Technology CAN fix this. As medical boards did to control doctor shopping and multiple scrips so all that is mostly done. But up till now as usual still not the will. I give him credit for having the integrity to not be a part of the thievery and moving on at least.
Good for you man it's better to eat a small piece of bread that you earned with honesty than a burger you got with dishonesty
there should be some facality to report crime like these.
There are other much simpler frauds. A friend was selling his late model Accord. Guy comes from 2 states away. Takes it for a test drive and when he comes back, the "check engine" light was on. Offered $1000 less and my friend took it. It's very likely the guy drove out of sight, popped the hood and disconnected a sensor / wire. You should not let someone take your car for a test drive alone. If you don't want to go along, just say no and decline the sale.
Just unscrew the gas cap and the check engine light will light up.
Why did that guy disconnect it?
@@danko5866 to get a better deal
@@danko5866 to make it seem like the car had problems reason why he got it 1k less
He was lucky the guy came back in the first place 😂
When I was 15 (1982) and my parents were gone for a week, I took out our 1979 F150 for a joyride and when I got back, I dismantled the entire dash, took apart the cluster down to the actual wheels with the numbers and rolled it back the roughly 15-20 kms I had driven. Realizing afterward that this was way too much work, I then got under the truck to where the speedo cable goes into the transmission, pulled out the little gear, stuffed the hole with a wine bottle cork and that's how I snuck-in unauthorized miles, the old-school way lmao. I would find out later in life that my parents did not log miles as I suspected. Oh well.
lol, I too in 1978 too out the family's Buick to drive around town. Never thought about changing the mileage.
You could also driven backwards but 15-20kms would have been impressive
If you actually did something like that, stuck in a wine cork, when they drove the car the speedometer would read zero and if they had half a brain they would get suspicious.
Jeez, I really feel bad for your parents that they had to raise such a horrible person. I would never do something that disrespectful and deceitful.
@@lennyf1957 Ummm, "actually"? I wasn't brainless. It was one bolt and it took all of one minute so I did it each time I took the truck out. That included taping a plastic baggie over the end of the speedo cable that had the little gear on it and tying it off so it didn't drag on the road.
I had a buddy who sold a car he posted online with 180,000 miles on it. Shady guy came and bought the car on the spot with no test drive. An hour later the same car was posted for sale using the same photos but with 100,000 less miles and a higher price. In my experience, at least here In CA, no one wants to say it out loud, but there are certain people who sell used cars that I steer away from because they are shady and known for this type of activity. Like the cop said, if it’s too good to be true, it probably is but people are blinded by that “great deal”!
I don't know that they're so blinded. Maybe a couple years ago, 2019, a clean car in decent condition with 80k miles was a 10-12k car, fair and square. Now the same car might want more like $20k or more for the same miles, same car. Cars don't actually get more valuable with time or mileage, so somebody doesn't think "impossible deal!", they think ah, prices have finally come back down to something that makes sense. Then it turns out that it was more like 180k miles, not 80k.
‘Certain people’
@@DustyDustGaming Criminals, that's all.
@@DustyDustGaming black people
Just say it out loud, im curious
I used to work for Porsche dealer in Germany. Most cars were business leases for tax reason, but the set miles was always 10k Kilometers because Porsche financial wouldn’t do more since it decreases value rapidly.
So many if not most customer went to roll their odometer back once a year before it was in for a service. We had a used 996 Turbo in one week with 190k and two weeks later we did a pre purchase inspection with 75k lol 😂
I swear there are not many Porsche with original miles out there.
Especially old Porsche with single VDO mechanical gauges are always tempered with
As a porsche owner who actually puts very few miles on my car and bought it new, this is surprisingly reassuring…first german car and still worried german cars are reliability nightmares, so far better than my honda was new
I don't see why they don't build the odometer into another part of the car where they're using digital displays anyways. Why can't the computers that run the cars keep track of that and just communicate that through the CANbus (is that the right case?). Hell, game consoles have been using efuses (digital fuses) to prevent downgrading of firmware since the Xbox 360 iirc, and apparently some modern Android phones use it (wikipedia).
@@alext3811 they do, I know for bmw they sync the odometer into multiple other electric modules in the car so if you start swapping parts and they don’t match it triggers the tamper dot. Even with electronics they can me manipulated.
@@alext3811 they do, many cars store the mileage in many different computers on the car. However, getting to this information can require expertise or special tools/software.
@@alext3811 I purchased a '14 accord sport 6spd manual at the end of 2013 and since then I've put 39,439 miles on it without any niggles except a crappy stereo, that was rectified for $3,000 at the local sound shop. Since then I've put better tires on it twice (purely by choice), window tint, 10 oil changes, one recall for the battery sensor on the negative battery terminal connector. It still works great.
I thought about this when I bought a cluster at a junk yard to practice changing the LEDs. My truck has over 300k on it and it would be too easy to get a cluster anywhere with less miles. Fortunately I love my 4runner and the high mileage is a badge of honor haha.
I feel the same way even though I’m only at 160k. I want more miles!!! 😂😂😂
Even with high miles you'd fetch a good price for that
@@NorthernWindNut you ain't lying. 4runners hold their value extremely well.
A mark on Carfax that shows an odometer has undone many fraudsters plans. As a mechanical claims adjusters that has studied vehicle records and carfaxes in depth, I can tell we know how to spot this fraud. Dig a alittle and you will be surprised.
@@NorthernWindNut Someone who'd buy a 4runner with 280,000 miles would certainly buy one with 480,000. It's not brand-new, they should know what they're getting into.
You wouldn’t believe how many times I’ve had people ask me to roll their odometers back when I had my shop in Detroit.
I never did it an never will.
Did you report them to the police or DMV?
An honest car mechanic, a rare find sometimes.
@@karimaogden3875 Start reporting customers for making a request, and you're just going to have customers avoid you outright. Just say no and keep it moving, Karen.
Well I roll back odometers for my homies everyday for free. 😎
@@karimaogden3875 You clearly have what it takes to run a business karen
I remember the infamous "Columbus Ohio Odometer Tamperer" case from 1985. Some guy was ordered to roll back the odometers on some old city vehicles that were being auctioned. I think most of them were old police cruisers. His defense was "I was only following orders". That didn't work in the Nuremberg war crimes trials after World War Two, and it didn't work here. The guy ended up doing time in the late 1980s at a prison across the street from the prison where my uncle did his time for aggravated burglary.
And yes, starting in 2001, all cars manufactured for the US market are required to keep a second, secret odometer reading in the engine control unit. This won't stop sophisticated criminals, but with the right scanner, you can catch the unsophisticated car salesmen and hopefully get them prosecuted.
It's not foolproof, most high-end scan tools can change those secondary values as well, but it is more work.
@@ckm-mkc they said it won't stop sophisticated criminals
@@ckm-mkc no.
@@ckm-mkc Many odometers are digital now leaving the computer is the sole record of the milage. If you order a new computer one of the things you are asked is what the current milage is so the new computer can be programmed to reflect that. There is no verification so all it takes a lie to change the reflected milage.
@@tsiefhtes thats not why they ask you the mileage.
This actually scares me. I just shudder at the thought of having to be wary and a bit paranoid when buying used cars. As one commenter said, scammers truly are a different breed of criminals.
Listen to the engine especially the ones stating low milage! You can tell the difference between high mileage engine and mileage one!
Always get down and look under the vehicle to see any rusts or oil leaks, and check the vehicle!! Best way is to buy a car from trusted family members, friends or honest dealer!!
After HighSchool my friend move to the big city and got a good job. He bought a new car and put 48 thousand miles on it in a very short period. Then he lost his job and came back home. He had to sell his one year old car to get by. The most prestigious new car dealership in our area bought the car. Later we saw it on their used car lot. We looked at the odometer and it read 28 thousand miles. I'm thinking every car lot does this as a regular practice if they can get away with it.
Oh definitely, Every car I ever bought I just assume has at minimum 60k more miles than it says.
Wow...
Lost the job due to a car malfunction?
What a blasphemy...
I actually know someone who went to prison for a bit for doing this at his dealership. Didnt know about it until he got caught and I knew the family very well. Glad I wasn't of age to buy a car from him. Imagine how much this is going on that are not in these statistics.
Pretty lucky you weren't a victim
Lost $4500 when I bought a 2006 Infiniti m35, odometer read 112k miles. After 3 months of driving, the engine blew and after taking the entire engine apart, it was discovered the actual mileage on the engine/transmission was 345k miles. It was all of my savings, now in the dust.
Damn. Not sure if it makes financial sense, but please sue the seller.
Lesson learned I guess, Never put all your savings into a car.
damn i was gonna buy a corolla once and ran the carfax. car had 10 previous owner and 400k miles lol. they listed as 130k
@@Domspun Cars are tools not investments
That's heart breaking man. Sorry to hear that.
I am glad the feds still look into this crime. Large and smaller police depts have a hard time allocating resources to these crimes. Good job to all you guys who work these cases.
Nice thing about California cars that were bought originally in the state, is they have to be smogged every 2 years and inspected and the mileage is registered on the paperwork. All cars sold in California reputable dealerships have a Carfax on them showing the smog dates and inspection dates.
This is why it’s good to know a good experienced mechanic. Most of the time, there will be telltale signs of way more mileage than showing on the cluster. One of my great uncles was a used car dealer back in the 70’s when they started cracking down on this. Back in the day when you could do with a drill in reverse. Long story short, he got caught running miles back by an undercover officer. He was a really bad alcoholic at the time, he later went to rehab, and stayed clean for about the last 25 years of his life. Lots of people don’t know what to look for, and there are so many crooked car dealers out there, and that’s a shame because there are lots of honest ones out there too.
This article would be better if it offered suggestions on how to spot odometer fraud. Ideas like looking for excessive wear on parts of the car that wouldn't match what the odometer shows. Checking the Carfax report. Etc.
Other than the odometer, a dealer might also try to hide an accident(s) that the vehicle got into. Sometimes you can tell with front end collisions under the hood by the sheet metal of the frame not matching up with the body around bolts that hold the front of the body to the frame.
There are several cheap code readers for $100 that read multiple modules. That’s the best weapon against odometer fraud.
The transmission control module will store the odometer reading along with the ECU & Body Control Module.
I was hoping for a few more useful tips. Just looked at a motorhome that said it had 50k, but the brake petal was worn to bare metal and I could feel the springs in the seats. Seemed closer to 350k than 50.
@@ebindy4951 doesn't work on old cars
It’s easy, a visual inspection and simply just driving it you can tell something is off. Look for the obvious, like a worn front seat typically front the left bolster of the driver seat, look for wear on parts a driver touches the most (shifter, steering wheel, multifunction switch, radio/climate control buttons, etc). Also, check for leaks, gaskets and seals wear and at high mileage begin to have some seepage of fluids. Also check the suspension/steering components like the ball joints. Low mileage cars dont have any cracking or wear around them, I recommend putting the car on a lift and checking these parts that way you can see if there are any play in these components. Ball joint play is associated with high mileage.
This is why pre-purchase inspections are important!!! One of my favorite services I offer. I've saved over 100 clients from fake milage cars
the problem is some of these dealerships make fun of you if you try to get a mechanic to inspect the car before buying it
@@mrbobbilly2 they do! But a real shop never minds if they have nothing to hide
How do you uncover a false mileage during pre purchase inspection?
@@oB_Session first do a visual inspection to see if the vehicle looks like it has the miles advertised. Then I'll check carfax. To dig even deeper I'll send oil samples off to get tested.
@@HerbzAutoCare thank you 🙏
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This is why when I buy used cars, I check that the ID of the person I’m buying from matches the title. I got burned once and I bought an old truck from a guy that had stolen the truck and the title from a family member.
I've heard from a DMV in Florida that you should have the buyer go with you when transferring the title to make sure they don't keep the title in your name. Scams can go both ways, so always be careful and have paperwork when large amounts of money are being exchanged.
I always get a copy of their drivers license, buy or selling a car. Also, run a Carfax and an auction record check like EpicVIN. The last thing is that mileage is not just stored in the cluster, higher end scanners can pull mileage from several modules in the car. When buying & selling cars, I also Google them and their address to see if it throws up any flags.
What does that have to do with rolling back the odometer lol
Wow you check the ID!? Crazy stuff man do you also verify the VIN!?
@@thedaywillcome they mention this in the video, another sleazy thing
Sometimes it's the motor vehicle department's fault. I bought a motorcycle that had a failed speedo and the cluster was replaced and the new odometer was about 80k less. This was all disclosed at sale. When I tried to register it they said they can't write in an unknown milage and they used the new mileage on the title 80k under actual despite me telling them it was wrong.
This happens to me also
I had an old Monte Carlo with situation
Most states issue a *TMU* title in that instance *(true mileage unknown).*
As teens a friend worked at Uhull in the mid 80's he told me how fraudsters would rent the trucks & simply disconnect the speedo wire & put a couple thousand miles on it. Around a week later it had just 25mi's added upon returning it. It's crazy because i remember seeing ppl in my area driving them for weeks.
I worked in the car business back in the “bad old days”. Cars had mechanical odometers that were frequently turned back. Prior to 1972 in Wisconsin where I have lived most of my life there were no odometer laws. I worked for old timers in the business and oh boy can I tell the stories about things that were related to me. Maybe I am naive, but with the advent of the digital odometer, I had assumed that this practice was a thing of the past. Thank you for bringing me back to reality.
this is rampant among exotic/supercars, while the manufacturers know, they dont want to combat it or make more of a spectacle of it. The best thing you can do is to look over all the service history they usually list date/mileage, and get a different shop to do a full pre purchase inspection. a $200 inspection can save you thousands and give you the peace of mind you are looking for.
Who does ore purchase inspections
@@velocirshtr3756 probably a mechanic that you know and trust
I've mostly seen this happen at used car dealerships. I have a friend who is a dealer in the Carolinas, and he is probably the only one within 20 miles with honest odometer readings.
That’s really concerning bro
“The only one” lol sure budddy
@@caldanga19bud all he means is it’s prevalent
Not true at all. It is much more difficult to do now and is a felony as well. People don’t do it because of these same reasons.
Omg how could it happen at a new car dealership? This maybe the dumbest thing written on all of the internet today
That was common practice back in the 60s by many car companies. My father trained his car in to a Plymouth dealership. I looked at it and it had 20. Thousand miles less on it when he traded it.
im an ex dealer one of the reasons i used to reverse the odometre is because of the unrealistic expectations of buyers ...everybody wanted very low driven cars ,,not understanding why would some body sell their cars at less than half the price without even driving their cars
When I learned to drive back in the '70s, I recall learning how to detect odometer fraud. For example, my dad taught me to look at the brake, accelerator, and clutch pedals. If they are worn well beyond the miles shown on the odometer, it might be a faked odometer. Also, brand new pedals might suggest the same. Similar, look at the plastic light covers, door seal gaskets, etc.
But how does a homosexual special rights activist kno to do this or even understand ?
@@benjurqunov It's not like taking it in the butt once in a while makes me incapable of understanding how to repair my vehicles...
50 years ago when i bought used cars i looked in the gas tank pipe u could tell by all the scratches from filling the tank
Taking notes to avoid getting caught thanks cnbc
Same, bro. We gonna get rich asf with this one 🔥 🔥 🔥 💯
Preach!
A car with a strong car fax and or repair paper history is good.
@@OneManOnFireUnreported repairs don’t get captured by Carfax though.
@@jimwatchyyc You're correct but I'll take some type of car fax history over nothing. Training yourself on car inspection is good such as looking over painted bolts.
Oh my god, I was literally having a debate with somebody on youtube about this. And he did not believe you could do this. He claimed he worked in the industry for many years, and thought you couldn't do it. The thing is I saw it with my own eyes, when you are dealing with used car salesman that happens way more often then thought.
OH MY GOD!
BS .! I used to be around garages, working supplying a certain product . The dude is right. Not saying people don't it . BUT it's easily detected. Not like this Cop and reporter would like you to believe. Cops and investigator reporters make it like thier so needed to keep their cake high paying jobs. In reality people who do such a thing almost aways get caught because records are kept throughout.. There are a few bad apples. But almost all garage owners are hard working honest individuals. We knew the few who weren't. Eventually they closed shop or got caught. Bottom line is they're only fooling themselves if they think no one knows what they are doing. You don't go in the Automobile industry to NOT be dishonest or take it easy. That job is for Government workers and politicians, Insurance CEO , Utilities executives, You're getting way more of your money worth at a used car lot or garage. Then you get from paying Taxes, Insurance, and Utilities, Yet this is where they try to focus your attention on.
In one of my comments, in the early 2000s they hooked up a couple wires to a switch to shut the odometer off. I knew some people who did it
@@Roadking556 How exactly is it easy to detect something that can manually turn off the odometer recording mileage on demand? Not possible.
@@rdizzy1 No .Eventually the patterns don't add up. Someone on here goes into greater details.
Car Fax is your best defense for a car with multiple prior owners. You can see how long each person had it, and how many years were driven per year. It limits how much you can roll it back.
The problem is it only shows the reported services on the car. You could lie to places or roll back an odometer, and then service the vehicle. You could drive 15k miles and then report it as 5k for your first service.
I've purchased a car recently with only 30k miles from the auction. I've done some research on these cars and almost every single one I've seen that was for sale always had at least 180k miles on it. After coming across this video, I'm worried now.
How old is the car? Are the rubber suspension parts hard & cracked? Are there lots of small chips on the front bumper & windshield from highway driving? Are the seat bolsters wrinkled/cracked/torn from getting in and out hundreds of times?
@@potathoooI 30000 mile car will turn on and run very crispy and smooth
Carfax report it's very accurate
@Pedro betancourt It's better than nothing but not extremely reliable because many cars don't have mileage reported.
I sold cars for 20 years, and depending where people get repairs done. Some places don't report to carfax.
I still do recommend it
@Captain Blacktooth I bought at auction because I was a dealer, But nobody wants to buy a car with 100k miles only to find out it really has 240k
I remember looking at a Ford F150 for sale as a repair project. Service records and auction records said around 160k miles but the listing said 120k on the odometer. I think the seller was just hoping I wasn't gonna look into it beyond just a basic accident report
I couldn't believe how easy this is. I ordered a new dash for my Tahoe off eBay and almost fell over when they emailed me and asked me the odometer reading without requiring any proof so they can program the miles. If I wasnt honest I could have told them 500 miles instead of 90k and they would have done it
Many cars store the odometer reading in multiple places (dashboard, ECU, etc.). I had a Taurus where it (along with the VIN) was in the PCM as well as the dashboard (and I believe it was also stored in another computer), and they all had to match, otherwise they would throw a bunch of warning lights.
Years ago my neighbor had a pick up truck and all he did was disconnect the speedometer cable from the transmission ,the truck had a tach so all he did was keep track of RPMs.
My favorite is when the odometer is less than the oil tag on the window
That might be when next change is due, depending.
Yeah I don't think a few thousand miles is that big of an issue even. Tens of thousands of miles ARE an issue though. Walmart, for instance, puts down the next mileage when the oil change is due again.
@@uploadtime1780 The Odo read 69k, the tag read 151k... Sus haha
@@megamanx466 You actually trust WalMart to service your vehicle?
Wow that’s cool that agent schrader got out of the DEA
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I rolled my odometer forward to pay less taxes and less insurance. 260k miles and runs like a top. Keeping it til the wheels fall off so works for me 🤷
Isn't that fraud too?
Always get a pre purchase inspection. Excessive mileage will most times be obvious by the wear that occurs on the vehicle's parts, or the after market parts that have been installed. Usually parts have a typical life span. Most suspension parts will last 100k . If you see replaced suspension parts,non oe parts you know the odometer is a lying.
Or just get a carfax....
@@skoparweaver7692 They don't get everything. Having a Mechanic check it out is your best bet.
@@skoparweaver7692 my friend bought vehicle with 35k and carfax was showing same mileage , since it was diesel there is no emission later he found out it had 200k when transmission module was ran, best way to tell is by worn out brakes pedal
@cst2028
Your absolutely right. Parts on the vehicle don't lie . Neither the ECU . The ECU mileage cannot be erased or reset on most vehicles.
@@skoparweaver7692 carfax isn’t always accurate
in the 70's I had a school teacher who traded used cars as a side gig. He did egregious rollbacks on every car he bought. And in those days it was as easy as calling his guy to come over and get 'r done.
It's till that easy
It’s easy still. There’s a guy in my city with an “odometer fix” buisness and a 50k software that plugs into the obd. And he can spin back any digital odometer to any number you like, he charges 300$.
That's why I started buying new cars. About 8 or 9 years ago i was trying to buy a van from some Salvadoran dude in Oakland. He claimed that it had 140k miles but when i checked with Carfax it said it had 280k and was totaled in Texas
Carfax saved me one time. Was going to purchase an F250 with 250k miles and did a carfax before buying and it showed multiple service records at over 400k miles
It's surprising to me how primitive NHTSA's investigation methods are. I know they're underfunded, but they've barely improved their techniques since the 90's
Well, I'm pretty sure they don't have a doctor Von Braun,.short of somebody else doing something about it, it'll never happen
Fraud investigation by the government is about the only thing which can stop this kind of thing. I can imagine car dealships who do this kind of fraud protest against proper funding for these guys.
Remember, someone trying to save you money from fraud probably gets called "red tape" by someone.
In the UK our yearly Mot records have been computorised since 2005/6.
Any buyer of a secondhand car can view the vehicles Mot history online which gives them the date, milage, any advise notes and if it passed or failed. This now makes it very easy to see if the milage has had a large "hair cut".
The U.S. does not have such a system? I thought that's what Carfax was?
So weird to see a country with al the means to keep records be so far behind. Here in Holland everytime you go to a workshop the odometer is noted and logged into a central database so tampering isn't possible anymore. Since 1999 they're obliged to do so. You can even get a certificate of proof of a reliable odometer.
I do restorations and noticed cars from Japan will come in for touch ups with 40,000 on the odometer seat will have wear holes.Pedels worn.
Yes , learning from other car owners' experiences are more useful & accurate on what to look out for before buying a Second Hand Car ( Pre~Owned , the more Fancy Pant term ) , like checking the type & condition of the engine ( Normally Aspirated Engines can Last Longer than Turbo~Charged Ones ) , more engine components are made from metal alloys than plastic ones , Manual Transmission is way cheaper to maintain than complex automatic ones , & checking the costs for spare parts for the type of car we intend to buy , will reduced many headaches & heartaches down the road! 🙏 Thank You So Much CNBC & NC Police Dept., for this Useful & Enjoyable to watch Public Warning Video tutorial! 🌷🌿🌍💜🕊
Educational + entertainment = Edutainment.
As I was watching this video, I kept thinking that I had seen someone somewhere use a odometer reversing tool before. I just couldn't recall the details...
And then they played the clip from Matilda. Oh, yeah, that's where I saw that! A movie I haven't seen since I was a kid. A memorable one though😉
I'm someone who owns a lot of older OBS chevy vehicles and I can agree it scares me how simple those mid 90s trucks you can fake milage on. 4 bolts and a mild tug on the dash and the odometer is out of the truck in 5 mins. No joke.
I can usually tell a real 100k mile truck v.s a 3-300k. Brake pad wear. Carpet wear, turn signal lever lettering worn, seats shot, worn front end parts.
Or since I'm in nys. A lot of these trucks were plow trucks that only drove in winter and just rotted to NOTHING and only accumulated 54k miles in 25 years.
I remember the old time car we had which only had a 5 digit odometer. We rolled it over the natural way, by covering over 100,000 miles. So it rolled over to full zeros.
I got an insurance payout that way that was 3 times what I paid for the car. Was only $1,800 at the time though. 😅
That's what my car has. Currently the odometer reads around 50k miles. Everyone assumes the true amount is 150k. But I know it's got 250k on it!
I used to own a Porsche 944 with like 30,000km on it. The pre 84 models had only 5 digit odometers. God only knows how many times that thing had been around. Paid 5k for it, spent 10k on repairs and sold it for 5k.
Canadian odometers up until a certain point in time were only 5 digits. They would roll over at only 62000 miles! (metric system)
People can't just stop being...peoplely
Capitalism! Maximize profits at all costs. "Should we buy those new brake systems for our trains that haul deadly chemicals? Capitalism says Hell NO".
@@stevechance150 😆 there's always that one person that blames a system or the government for all their problems. The root cause is humans being humans regardless. Happens all the same with Socialism, communism you name it. Only difference is with capitalism everyone has the freedom to choose what video game character they want to be... the shark or the sheep. With the other systems you have no choice BUT to be the sheep. Hence why the weak align with the other systems most. A Human bias will naturally gravitate to and defend whatever aligns best with its own strengths. Communism and socialism conveniently lowers the bar for everyone across the board BY FORCE rendering the weak and less intelligent average vs below average in a capitalist structure.
@@stevechance150 because this doesn’t/didn’t happen in socialist or communist countries…. Lol
Lol
There’s a guy in my city that has an “odometer fix”buisness. He fixes odometers but also spins them for 300$ to any number you want. He has software on his computer that plugs into the OBD port. He paid over 50k for the setup, and can do any car except the newest dodge diesel models. There’s always a lineup down the street from car dealers for his service.
I had a Nissan R31 Skyline and when the odometer failed at 385ks. I took it to an instrument repairer who subsequently told me that spares to repair the odometer were no longer available so I managed to find a junkyard replacement with only 220ks on the odometer. I took it to the instrument repairer and asked him to wind the odo forward to match the old one. He was dumbstruck that someone would request increasing the odo distance forward.
I remember my uncles often complaining about that sort of thing when trying to figure out why the odometer on their vehicle was from time to time not working properly. However that was during the 1950's while they were both college students. Along with sometimes another room mate doing the same. I feel blessed that all of them never saw me or my 2 little brothers too as being too ilogical when not bothering to tell us about it.
Another example of the great work NHTSA does!
Used to be so common in Kenya as most of our cars are imported(used) so as to make it more profitable,almost everyone was doing it then the KEBS(Kenya Bureau of Standards) basically an inspection unit decided to change things and the odometer readings were sent from the country of origin.The details are available online.solved everything
My friend had a iroc Camaro and he did this to extend his warranty. He just popped out the odometer and rolled it back. I now know an experienced mechanic could probably tell the difference in a car driven 100000 miles and one “driven” half that haha but he got away with it.
Happen to my friend. The original seller got a big fine but I think stayed out of jail.
That's just the cost of doing business for the fraudster then. They'll make it back many times over all the times they don't get caught
Must have been in a Democrat procriminal location
In Bulgaria we just assume that every used car has been rolled back.
😅😂😂😂😂
I've been hearing about this my whole life.
This was an interesting overview of the topic.
I liked the last remark about if it doesn't feel right in your gut don't do it. A lot of people ignore their gut feeling to their detriment.
Here in NZ you have to take your car in for a warrant of fitness. They record the total miles/kilometers on the car which is then publicly available and can be checked simply by looking up the registration. If you see that the miles haven't increased from the last visit or it has dropped below the last visit you know something is up. You can also look up if the car has any money owing on it or check if the car has been marked stolen, how many times it has failed it warrant of fitness. Maybe the USA should implement something like this.
I don't know why CNBC did not mention this. ALWAYS ALWAYS bring an OBD2 reader and cross check mileage of different computer modules! Some OBD2 scanners can perform this function via an Odometer Tampering option. It will save you thousands.
I've never once seen that as an option across literal dozens of obd2 devices
Care to share what obd are you using?
Carly is a Wireless OBD2 reader that has those features and can connect via an app.
This is exactly why I feel this issue isn't as big as people are making it out to be. Any modern vehicle built in the last 10 years or so logs the mileage in multiple modules. Fords for example have a mileage number in the cluster, the engine computer, and the transmission module. Not saying it's impossible to edit the mileage in those modules, but anyone with a decent scan tool can cross reference all the modules to see any discrepancies.
And then you'll still buy the car at a heavily reduced price because (At least on old cars and non interference engines) pulling the engine or doing general maintenance our society stopped doing will probably make your car last indefinitely, and without breaking the bank. 😂
My 2008 Impala has 68K miles. It's 15 years old and although I bought it new with 8 miles, if I ever decide to sell it I think potential buyers are going to think I rolled back the miles.
Bought wife's 2001 Impala new. Just rolled over 80k. She used it to drive to work till she retired in 2010.
I have an 08 Malibu and I bought it with 48k kilometres, maybe they pulled the same thing on me
Who else thought of Matilda's dad? 😂
LoL same here 😂
Instantly, especially how chill he was about it.
what? i mean there is literally a clip of that movie in the video lmao
lol I did
When I was a kid, 1950s, speedometer shops were in every town. It was common for every day owners to take the family car there just before selling. And they got lots of business from car dealers.
That's why new cars were selling so well back then and used were low value.
An easy way to catch this is to scan the transmission control module. It keeps track of mileage along with the odometer. If the TCM shows a higher mileage than the odometer, its been reset. Have a mechanic do this test before buying a used vehicle.
There is a tool to reset that too.
An absolute load of manure. Tcm doesn’t store mileage
There’s a 2004 F150 on Craigslist in Seattle going for $18k with only 25k miles.
Too slow CNBC, I already learned this watching the movie Matilda
Man, when I was in college I bought a new gauge cluster for my car. I took the new one apart and used a paperclip to INCREASE the mileage to the current mileage on the old cluster. All the service was done by me in my Dad's garage. Apparently I'm an honest schmuck that could have increased the value of the car!
You will never work in the Trump Whitehouse. The good news is that heaven awaits you.
You knew at the time that being dishonest would have likely made you more money. And you chose not to do it.
My friend bought a 2016 Nissan maxima and thought it had 42,000 miles but it actually came to find out it had 278,000 miles according to another computer model in the car that they forgot to reset
It gets weird because a lot of these older vehicles have dash’s/cluster that stop working and people want them replaced. Now true millage is unknown and it’s all a guess how many miles the car actually has. Also when a speed sensor stops working it usually will stop clocking miles, I can’t even tell you how many cars I’ve came across for sale and the “speed sensor needs replaced”. Well if they drove 100k miles since it’s been broke that’s a problems. Just like when people “replace there dash” and now realize they have a totally different vin number on there car now. I called this problem out 10 years ago. Good luck to the people that don’t know what to look for. I feel sorry for them.
In my country, it's so prevalent that we we don't even look at the odometer and just inspect the car's general condition..becuz we know 98 percent of cars have tampered odometers according to their conditions
Ya! maybe in newish cars they care but for older cars no ones cares about mileage.
Don't ya just love Eastern Europe?
Damn
Nobody cares about mileage in Nigeria too :-)
And that’s how it should be. You inspect the condition, not the mileage
In the UK during the annual vehicle test (MOT) they have to record the odometer milage into the government database that is accesible to anyone easily. Just type in the reg plate number and there you go, you see any mismatch.
Does this mean odometer fraud is almost non-existent in the UK?
Same in the US, we have dozens of services that allow to lookup the data. There are also maintenance records typically. Thing is, people don't check when buying, esp. from dealers.
Yes so you get it clocked before your mot each year!
That's nice but useless when you can turn off your odometer!
@@ckm-mkc are they free, though?
In the UK, the police send their BMWs to auction to sell. They have been offered a MOT test, but the sellers decline, because that would mean getting a lower price due to the official mileage getting recorded. The auction buyers then "clock" the cars before selling the vehicles on. The police are "aiding and abetting" a crime.
When I was working at Davies Auto many years back. The service manager ( and partner in the company ) was making thousands of dollars by resetting American odometers ( or certifying replacements ) shipped to Canada. The digital odometers are even easier to roll back now.
15 - 30k for a used vehicle!
Why!
The upcoming recession will bring reality to a Lot of dreamers
From west Africa
🦅
Been like that for Lile 3 years now
Americans love to rip each other off.
I remember Jay leno talking about he rolled back odometers...he gave me the impression this was a thing of the past...
This was very informative, thank u guys.
I was car shopping 6 months back I must of ran about 15 carfaxs on the street every single car came back with a rolled back odometer
I'm here cause I bought a used 2008 GMC Acadia SLT with 80K miles however after I bought the Vehicle in another State from a guy off of Facebook Marketplace the Vin lookup read 280K miles but the Odometer says 80K I've had many repairs done about $5K in one year since I've owned it could just be typical G.M problems but needless to say I can't help but think 🤔 even tho it's a digital Computer 🖥 they might have rolled it back. Still have the GMC Acadia but live and learn next time do a lookup of the Vin first. Because it's an older vehicle the milage wasn't listed on the Title.
But did you check any information on it like the Carfax? Get a pre Purchase inspection from a mechanic? Those are pretty essential on any car. Also, a car with 280k would show massive wear on the interior, transmission, overall, while a 80k car would typically look pretty good.
There are many indicators that show miles on a car beside the odometer reading.
I used to know a car dealer who would change the mileage before selling. Been suspicious ever since I saw him do that with ease.
I would have sued and call the cops
Always thought this was a thing from movies which suggested it was rife back in the day not now. Thankfully in the UK there's some good tools out there you can use to spot the signs, also helps that cars must have an annual MOT check which tracks millege which can be accessed via certain providers prior to buying a car in addition to wide range of checks.
Basically...for us consumers to protect ourselves:
We need to "trust our gut" and believe that "if it's too good to be true, it probably is".
Awesome work CNBC 🙄🙄🙄
That'll really help us avoid getting scammed by odometer fraud.
In TX, and I assume many other states, every vehicle is required to get a safety inspection at which time the mileage is noted. What happens when your mileage is lower the following year when the state inspection is done?
The point is that the car will be sold by then and the unfortunate buyer will be the one to get stung
That's how I discovered a scammer. CarFax and title search both clean, but when I stumbled upon the state inspection website, it showed the mileage steadily increasing before a sharp drop (and a failed inspection). I don't think it's illegal if it's your own car and you're not trying to fraudulently sell it, but fortunately I did not have to test that theory.
They could buy cars from states that don't have annual inspections. I live in MO, and we used to have to get an inspection every 1-2 years, but a few years ago a law was passed that you only have to get vehicles inspected if they have over 150,000 miles. I thought it was a bad idea since most people don't maintain their vehicles. I'm sure automotive shops love it thought - most hate inspections because they get $12 for 25-30 min of work (if they actually do a good inspection).
Practice common sense. They can change the miles, but you can usually tell the age of the car by looking at the wear of the interior and car seats, especially if they are leather.
I bought my BMW M3 in 2014 at their absolute price basement. A friend from the track sent me a drunk text saying he was done with it after blowing a head gasket. He paid $9K and put $28K into it. He texted I could have it for $5K.
99,000 miles at the time and 9 years later, it has 104,500. Low miles for an e36 M3 is now in the 180K range. My cluster is worth a mint, but just like I have to tell any car guy that sees it, the car isn't for sale.
You would be surprised how often this happens !! I knew several buddies that started used cars lots and would mention this practice
In 2013 I bought a 98 prelude for $5,000. The odometer said 124k miles but someone who knew the original seller told me it was wrong. I contacted an odometer investigator and after further investigation he found it was rolled back and said I was entitled to 3x what I paid for the car so $15,000. I went with him and an officer to the sellers work and he was in tears, I ended up getting to keep the car and he had to pay me an amount I was satisfied with. I just made him give me 5,000 and I kept the car 👍
Alexander why are you giving out false information? I am a dmv investigator and you won’t get 3x what you paid for. All cars sold on the street are AS-IS. AS-IS means you are liable after the deal. Please stop giving out false information.
Mileage is stored in so many places these days on a vehicle, odometer, PCM, BCM, on my BMW it's even stored in the headlight modules. People are just too lazy to get a vehicle checked out by an independent shop before purchase.
Would you recommend a cheap reader for an average joe to perform these checks? Thanks
@@hans6304 the cheap readers can only access basic information from the PCM, you'll need something much more expensive to read BCM and other modules. In the end it's probably cheaper just to have a shop look the car over.
@@giovanni4304 thanks for the info!
Unfortunately, that’s only true if the miles are rolled back. If a blocker is used, there is no way to detect the original miles
@@hans6304 You'll need a bi-directional scanner, ones that can read this are $700 or more. I have a couple (as well as the OEM scanners) as I want to be able to do maintenance on my own cars - some maintenance procedures require bi-directional control or module programming. It's an investment, but if you buy a good brand that does updates, it will be useful for years.
Thanks for all the...... how-to do it advice guys !
I’ve been a car dealer much of my life, checking the reporting is an easy way to know if the story lines up, carfax shows miles from all the registrations and emissions checks. Of course condition of the car will also often show the use. Just do your research and you can spot fraud.
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And now this video has played 500k times, and more people will get the idea in their head
490,000 honest people will be able to protect themselves; the 10,000 scammers would have scammed regardless cos they already knew how to do this.