Just a small correction: It aren´t the Ents that attack the Uruk army, but the Hurons. Hurons are trees that can move but aren´t able to speak, so the wood the Uruks are running into, are all moving sentinent trees who on their way towards Helms Deep. So even with your victory over the forces of men and evles, you would have been crushed by nature in the aftermath. But good vid anyway!
Small note, the rain actually wouldn't have been a large disadvantage, it would have muddied the ground and was an advantage to the defenders as it would bog down the uruk hai army. Even with "reduced" visibility elven archers are phenomenal and the wide open valley leading to Helms Deep offers an archers wet dream. Just point and shoot, you'll hit something. So accuracy isn't necessarily an issue.
This was pretty fun to watch! Just imagining the Uruks actually using advanced tactics combined with their physical toughness and heavy armor would make for a much deadly force indeed.
@@JohnnyLukyoutube Sadly they absolutely ruined the battle tactics in "The Shannara Chronicles" when it was made a TV show. In the book the elves are outnumbered 1000 to 1 against the demons. They're holding them at a bottle neck in a mountain pass, allowing smalling groups to pass through before cutting off the bottle neck and using calvary to surround and destroy them before letting another small group through, and repeat. Then they fell back behind the city walls when they sustained too many casualties to hold the pass any longer. In the TV show the elves are still outnumbered 1,000 to 1 and they don't show the battle at the pass. Then at the city, instead of being on the city walls, they meet the demons in the forest in front of the city at the top of a trench. Then they charge into the trench and start clashing with the demons there. Tactically one of the stupidest battles I've ever seen on screen.
They would have been cut down just the same. If not easier, they have no armour and would have been slaughtered by archers and would have trouble fighting in close quarters despite their fury they have no armour to protect them. Judging by their weapons they would not be able to defend against a rohirim charge. In the film the only reason the pikes couldn’t defend against the rohirim was because of Gandalf’s light but without it I’m sure the Uruk hai would be able to defeat the rohirim with pikes. Berserkers are armed with greatswords by the looks of it not ideal to use against cavalry. And my final point that the Beserkers are Ill disciplined and would fail to form battle lines and would leave themselves in loose formation making it heaven for a cavalry charge
@@unga8588 greatswords are the best alternative to polearms against cavalry. In japan it was a somewhat common alternative to use against horsemen to the pike that was also highly common
@@clonetf141 you are right but look at the great sword that the berserkers use. It has no point, only two blades that stick out either side at the top, not good for stabbing
@@unga8588 tbf the hooked end of the berserkers weapons are probably the next best thing other than the pikes, for taking out horses. You wouldn't wanna 'stab' an oncoming horse with a sword. but yeah... keeping cohesion with an army of berserkers would be a nightmare... i mean, it's a job to keep orcs in line anyway. the uruks are pretty much the equivalent of human berserkers as is. xD
Wonderful scene but yea I never knew why they did that lol by the time they charged they already had their pike line ready. Maybe if they had pushed up the choke before the Uruks rushed in but that still would’ve led to many many casualties they could’ve used for better defended areas 🤷♂️
Let's say: Peter Jackson has no clue about real medieval tactics. He prefers stupid head-on attacks because these seem to be the most valiant ones. He did so with Aragorn and the poor elves at Helm's Deep, the Rohirrim'charge directly into a pike wall at Helm's Deep, the famous Rohirrim charge into a wall of pikes and spears at Minas Tirith, another one head-on against the Mumakils and Aragorns one man charge into pikes at the Black Gate. The elves charge and the cavalry charge at Helm's Deep were't in the book. First, there were no elves. And the Rohirrim charge was done by foot which was logical because the mountain walls around Helms Deep were too steep for horses. So, it makes sense. Tolkien had been too long in real war to fantasize about a childish frontal attack as the method of choice. In WW1 this frontal attacks had been used far too often, with devastating results.
The moment you place even one mine near the front gate youre risking blowing up the ramp itself. In the movie it blew up a hella thick wall with ease, lat alone a small ramp and the entrance would cave in. The movie version of the battle was perfect, they essentially won, but the zrohhirim saved them. Perhaps if the Uruks did not blow up the wall, they could have easily climbed over sooner or later and just stay inside, horses would be useless then.
at first i also thought that the ramp would be blown up and that it would be a bad idea but from pictures i looked at the ramparts seems preety thick an also i think the uruks placed multiple mines at the wall at the gate you could just use one considering how strong these mines are they would wrack the gate but only one of them would leave the ramp mostly undestroyed and also saruman could have created a weaker mine in the first plays for this job i think its pretty stupid that he didnt. and sure if they would have left the wall standing it would have helped greatly against the rohirrim but they didnt knew they were coming so i think it makes perfect sense that they destroyed the wall
@@Biberbutzemann Thats a fair point about the Uruk's lack of knowledge about the rohirrim. However, I feel like a smaller mine at the gate would be extremely difficult to pull. You can see how narrow it is and how it could be a hassle to carry with raining arrows and spears, especially in such a narrow corridor. Also, lets remember that Saruman didn't probably make just two mines like we see in the movie, but a couple, and they just knew two would do the job. Interesting point tho!
That's an excellent point, given the difficulty in calibrating the mine, perhaps they were instructed by Saruman not to risk targeting the main entrance.
Something I don't understand is why they had a deeping wall at all. They had an awesome position for the keep, then they give themselves a massive outstretched fortification to defend, and the fortification itself is terrible. The point of a castle is not to provide a huge, expansive area to defend. It's to provide a small killbox where a small number of men can defend against a larger force. I'm reminded of Rorke's Drift.
Because in the books, if I remember correctly, it defended the glittering caves. It was like a last defense before the caves. In the movies they placed the caves behind the hornburg, but they left in the deeping wall.
i think what you failed to understand with the Counterchage from the elfs ... is that it is a proven tactic in real life storys ... if you have someone closeing the hole and get into the hole of the wall fast numbers dont matter ... the inner keep door can have been holder for a long long time with pikes from the inside ... and the was only 10k attacking thekeep ... it is in the book ... and normal we say 1 defenter can take out arund 10 before the fall ... you do the math
Just a couple of points: 1. Your general strategy more or less lines up with how events proceeded in the books. Two gunpowder charges were used, one to breach the Deeping wall and the other the front gate. The forces of rohan responded differently, too, and did not wait until they were pushed back to their final line of defense but sallied out the moment the main gate was breached and before the forces of Saruman could form up for their assault. Moreover, when the Deeping wall was breached the forces of rohan did in fact immediately retreat to the Hornburg, movie tactics are by contrast meant to be flashy and dramatic so I can't speak for that part. 2. Your idea of holding up in the Hornburg as a response to Rohirrim reinforcements is completely dependent on the battle within the castle already being completely finished and its defenders already being overrun, which is honestly pretty unrealistic regardless of how fast the outer wall is taken. A pitched battle on two fronts, both within and outside of Helms Deep, would then put the uruks into an incredibly precarious position, and would likely lead to a completely disorganized mob unable to maintain cohesion as the Rohirrim cavalry dismounts and assails the now defenseless battlements while Helms Deep's garrison assaults them from the rear and throws the forces of saruman in complete disarray.
Do you mean the Helms Deep garrison of 50 men who were still alive? In my opinion, only thing that won that battle was plotarmor of characters. Why did Uruk-hai boys run away? They had not show any low morale so why would they lose. If I remember correctly, in books rescue army was on foot. Nonetheless, mounted or dismoutned, they had to march whole night and several days while most of Uruk-Hai army was waiting outside the walls for they turn. Cavalry charge against several thousand of heavy pikemen, swordsmen and crossbowmen would also fail. But still, it is a great movie to watch.
Nice video! Imagine if the elves actually fought smart instead of a bloody suicide charge. You would think they are intelligent immortal creatures who wouldn't throw away their lives so easily. If each of the ~500 elves had say 50 arrows, that's 25,000 arrows. Plus they were supposed to be master archers, so shooting into a packed field means almost every arrow should hit. The Uruk Hai did have armor but battles like Agincourt have shown us arrows actually beat armor. Even if it takes multiple arrows to kill an Uruk, that's a lot of dead orcs...
@@marthvader14 On the 25th of October, 1415 an English army numbering between 6,000 - 8,100 defeated a much larger French army of between 14,000 - 15,000 men, the English army was notable by being composed of about 5/6 archers and 1/6 dismounted men at arms, the massed fire of the archers may have killed a good chunk of the French knights. Edit: Src: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt
Honestly if i was the Urukhai commander i would just Besiege them, the movie states clearly that the rohirrim have almost no Provisions and The Uruks do not know about Gandalf
One major thing Sarumon should have thought of was the use of caltrops, they are basically iron spiked triangles that have been used since ancient Egypt to stop Calvary. I would have lined the slope with the caltrops slowing the calvary down and with drawn the pikeman and position them in the holes in the defenses. Slowing them down further. while thats going on have the crossbowman pick off the Rohan soldiers until know are left.
the movie number is about 42k-44k troops you get to know it in the making off they used miniatures to visualize the amount of soldiers and for this purpose they bough you guessed it that many 42k-44k figures
I´d be much more reluctant to use the fires of Orthank against the gate, as that would likely damage, or even collapse the ramp, which would additionally provide the defenders with the much needed gap.
The only thing that i would have done differently, was to have your pikemen form square, horses wouldnt attack a wall of pikes, also do that whilst plugging up that opening where the rohan renforcment are coming from, that would be the end of that and far, far, far less casulties in the battle. Look up the battle of waterloo for more examples of forming square. Either way i loved the video 👍
An issue is that Orcs and to a lesser extent Uruk Hai are not all that disciplined. When they smell blood and they hear and see slaughter going on they will want to join in. You might be able to tell them how they can join like smashing the gates rather than throwing themselves at the walls. But having them just sit back and do nothing will not be that easy.
I would like to see one how Bolg could have won the Battle of the Five Armies. Even though it's obvious he should have used the were-worms or waited until the elves and orcs fought each other and diminished in numbers.
3:15 '' in the book there was about 20.000'' you sure about that? I always, but I don't know for sure, thought Tolkien indirectly stated there was about 10,000.
Sorry your bomb at the gate idea would destroy the thin stone bridge between the gate (it's solid right up to that point so most people miss it) and the ramp meaning you cut off the main entrance. As a defender I would of destroyed that, built a mote Infront of the deeping wall to ladders and block up the stream under the bridge so the overflow would turn the whole field into a bog dramatically slowing down the uraks to be peppered by arrows far longer
still strange how they only brought ballistas and not any trebuchets, onagers or catapults if they are soing a siege of a fortress or that the ballistas only had ballista «arrows» if we can call it that, lobbing bombs over the wall to decimate the defenders would have been great
It would be slowing them down tho, and they were cocky. Trebuchets are hard to manuver and has to be built on the battlefield. Simular with catapults. Balistas are somewhat manuverable and stil useful.
@@audunms4780 oh i know, but at army of 10000 uruk-hai not beeing able to build a catapult atleast still pisses me off, also not using a modified ballista to lob bombs 🥺
@@furieeeen If they had enough gunpowder to lob numerous bombs around, they would likely have used it more than they had in the story. Either way, bringing a ballista to storm a castle is a puzzling decision, though it was a part of their plan to storm the walls without needing siege towers in the movie and likely a better plan. Catapults would serve little use in a battle where time is a factor, save for causing ruin to the crenulations of the battlements and inflicting some casualties. You could make the argument that the catapults would not have lent them any aid that their armament in the films already provided.
Thank you so much for the encouragement! I am thinking of actually creating a dedicated channel for these animations! What battle would you like to see next? I was thinking perhaps the opening scene of Gladiator?
the one thing that has always been strange to me was why would you only bring ballostas if you are gonna siege a fort 😅 onager or catapults would have been a better choice to break those walls
Some of the Uruk Hai pike men should have been positioned on the opposite side of the steep slope at the top. The cavalry could never have made it through them then. They could also have dug trenches and pits to the rear and on their flanks along with caltrops to stop any potential cavalry charge.
Id have formed 5 waves. 1st wave would consist of purely probbing forces but still attemtping to capture the deeping wall. 2nd wave would reinforce the deeping wall attack group and start a proper assualt on the gate. The ballistas would shoot at the defenders wooden defences Then i would call for a fighting retreat. Prepare the 3rd wave but have crossbows and ballistas keep firing. When the 3rd wave is ready they would strike again at the same places but this time bring sapper teams. One blows up the gate and the other the deeping wall. That would be the entire 3rd wave. 4th wave would rush the gaps made by the sappers and where needed the 5th wave would attack aswell. 1st wave: 1000 uruk hai 2nd wave: 3000 uruk hai 3rd wave: 1000 uruk hai 4th wave: 2000 uruk hai 5th wave: 3000 uruk hai The uruk hai that survived previous waves would be divided across the 4th and 5th wave giving them time to rest inbetween attacks. I also choose not to do the sensibke thing of placing pikemen on the slopes since it feels like cheatung since hindisght is 20/20. If all goes well and as planned the 3rd and 4th waves would have broken the defenders. By the time the reinforcements arrive helms deep would belong to the uruk hai who would just use the non broken defences. Thisbwould force eomer and his men to dismount for their counter attack. I would also like to point that that as the commander you would probably be dead when the reinforcements arrive. You would be located near the rear or in the middle of the fields meaning that your position would be over run very fast by eomers soldiers. Ofcourse the most logical thing would be to have warg rider scouts whod report the incoming rohirrim which would lead to a sensibke decision on relocating yourself and your men
I never understood why there was no moat around the deeping wall. It never made sense to me. Probably a rare blind spot in Tolkien's knowledge. I also didn't understand why the troops that weren't cut down by the sally wouldn't just then go straight into the glittering caves and start the slaughter while the cavalry fought outside.
Indeed, given there is already a stream, it should be fairly straightforward to draw water into a moat. The choke point leading to the caves would also make a pretty good defensive line, compared to spreading all the forces across the relatively weak Deeping Wall. Won't have made as epic of a battle scene tho! Thanks for watching the analysis =)
@@majormarketing6552 but if saruman was getting the ring like he though wouldnt it make sense to send his riders or uruks to make sure he got it? Its not like saruman was afraid to get suprised by the rohirim attacking. Im sure his crows would spot an army. And then when he relized merry and pippin didnt have the ring he would of been forced to attack
@@majormarketing6552 your options are destroying a pretty weakened and divided rohan or having the best chance at getting the ring and just winning the war easily
The main lands of the Rohan were actually intact. Eastern Rohan and Eastfold was still a thing and western Rohan wasn't actually destroyed only the westfold was sacked. Theoden retreated his some of the eastern country just because they didnt had any wall to protect them. Saruman attacked Theoden specificly not Helms Deep, so when/if Theoden was dead, due to being leaderless Rohan would've followed their kings fate. And Saruman was actually afraid that Elfs or other Western Men's would aid their allies so he wanted to act fast. Also the Glittering Caves did have another entry point above the mountains. So Rohan would've been kept with supplies via Glittering Cave's path. And with water supply Helm's Deep would've holded a lot of time. And if Uruks kept pilliging Aragorn's people (Dunedain) or Gondor (they did a lot of reserves) would (maybe) arrive to aid them. Movies were good, but books didn't had this much flaws.
In the movie, the Hornburg is depicted at the bottom of the mountain, which is a very poor choice. The Uruk should have sent a detachment to climb the mountainside and bombard defenders from above.
Considering Helms Deep AKA "The Hornberg" in the films was stupidly designed, you could have just built towers/catapults/trebuchets/sapping tunnels. You Could have build a armoured battering ram small enough to fit the ramp seeing as there was no draw bridge. You could scale the mmountai with a few hundred or thousands of you men to stretch their lines.
I think the strategy outlined would have taken longer and been hit by the cavalry before they could accomplish everything. They should have just did what they did but immediately fortify the wall instead of leaving their troops out in the open. Holding just two spots (breach in wall and front gate) against a cavalry charge would have been very advantageous on its own, even if they couldn't get all the crossbows on the battlements in time. They don't even need to remove their ladders... Which could be used by the crossbows to climb directly into position.
i just wanna say cool video i liked it i just wanna say some things though you positioned your troops in a way where they'd be better off unlike the movie or book where they just swarm them but i feel like that might backfire yeah firing cross bow shots at the elves to ither distract or kill them might work but sending only a small portion of troops to attack the men might not work cause they just throw spears and fire arrows into what little force you sent and not to mention some elves would be shooting your troops at the main entrance with arrows rendering them useless but let's say you turtle shell your troops up to the ramp and maybe at this point only loss 200 troops while the men loss none and the elves loss maybe 20 placed you placed your gun powder at the front gate and at where it was placed at in the film you blow up both gun pwoeders over at the main gate the gunpowder just completely rekts the front gate the men denfeding it and the stone strucer aroudn the frot gate killing 50 men and injuring about 45 men in the process your troops storm into the fortress and the men immeitaly retreat back your troops instead of chasing them hunt down and slaughter the wounded now at the wall the wall blows up not like the movie seeing has you only used one piece of gunpowder but it still blows up quite a bit of the wall now at this point you would of already had forces on the top of the wall battleing the elves so the elves had lost lests say 150 troops and you lost 300 troops the wall so anyways the wall blows up and the elves retreat instead of engaging you lets say they retreat to the stares goig into the main keep and releash some arrows into your troops killing lets say 200 more of your troops but before the elves relazie it your other forces close in on the elves from behind so with all your troops barrowing in on the elves and ignoreing the men lets say you wipe out the elves but lose about 1,275 of your troops now its just you and the men the men retreat into the keep and use what ever they can find you barricade the entrance and start leading the women and chieldren out of the cave and into a mountain while the rest of the men try there best at keeping the entrance closed you rally all of your troops into the fortress claim it has your own you use what little gunpowder you had at the keeps doors blowing the doors up you charge into the keep but are met with a cavlery charge lets say this charge kills 50 of your troops but is halted and you wipe out all of the calvery charge with pike men and cross bow men you then send your troops into the keep and kill any remaining men you find wiping out the defenders now before you can chase down the women and the chieldren reinforcemnts arrive and they go gtfo and elave lol jk no you are met with 2,000 reinforcments all on horse they charge the fortress but they do slaughter all of your forces that decide to meet them head on so i say they kill close to 1,780 of your forces now you still greatly out number them you use cross bos and bows from the dead men and elves and wipe out 300 of the reinforcements now at this point they would be able to reach the troops on the fortress walls or the keeps walls so you keep fireing arrows into the reinforcements and you are able to wipe them out now the ents do not engage in your troops becasue one they where battling the Isengard fortress and two even if the ents where around Helms Deep your troops would all run into the keep where the ents cant get to go through the cave and enter the mountain pass there you would find the women and children and slaughter them leaving you with 6,195 troops and the men with 0 and the elves with 0 now heres my question after conquerring Rohan do you A go to Gondor and help Mordor or do you B go to Gondor and help well Gondor casue i can see two out comes A you go to Gondor and you along with Mordor just wipe out Gondor casue there wont be no Rohan or Army Of The Dead reinforcements but B you realzie that Mordor is a massive force and go oh crap the enemy of my enemy is my friend and go to Gondors aid wiping out Mordor?
Often wonder just what exactly the Deeping Wall was defending. Was there actually anything in the valley behind it? If not then surely the defenders would have been wasting their manpower there and better off concentrating their defences on the keep and glittering caves.
You are very right! Another commenter mentioned that in the book the Deeping Wall defended the caves, which would make sense then to protect it, but in the movie that wasn't the case. Totally agree they should concentrate their forces rather than spread themselves out, my only theory would be that the elves wanted to maximise their arrow output from the start and probably underestimated how fast the Uruk Hai would swamp them (plus bombs!) Thanks for watching, what should i make next?
Fire the bombs over the wall. Seek out the 2000 horse reinforcements, blow them away as well. Fully surround helms deep on both sides of the mountain. Starve them out. Get more explosives and constantly hammer them. Once all defences are weary and breached unleash the full might of orcs. Battle one through patients, logistics and understanding the lay of the land.
The first thing they would've to work around is the plot-armor of the main characters. As regular enemy side characters, this is an almost impossible task.
i do disagree with the sally out not beeing able to reach the ramp, ith your troops are not in a strongly packed formation a charge of horsemen would be able to reach the ramp given the higher mass and momentum they would have on impact
The easiest way the Uruks could have won at Helm's Deep would have been for Saruman to invent cruise missiles instead of black powder. The could have destroyed the entire Rohan army from 1,000 miles away. But clearly he was too lazy and unimaginative for that. Totally preventable loss. Saruman has no one but himself to blame.
Do you know the element of surprise? It's easy when you have already seen how the battle will go and make your strategy out of that. Nobody would have expected gandalf and his reinforcements, and your strategy to counter gandalf and his forces in the keep wouldn't work cause your men just didn't have enough time to get there. Also no one would have expected the cavalery charge out of the caves and wouldn't be able to react on that immediateley. Also there is no way you could send signals or prepare things quicky when you have no radio or things to communicate with or you yourself as commander would have been really close at the front charges to see what's going on.
how the battle really went... Uruk: haha we won all we gotta do is stop this cavaly charge and we got 50 ranks deep of pikes, half will crush the other half to death...oh sh!t plot armor aahhhh!!!
The problem is that the urukai hai weren't that advanced they didn't have explosives the only thing they had was overwhelming numbers. Had sarumon actually had the Darvish technology of blasting powder for explosives the orcs would have slaughter the roherum eather.
@@JohnnyLukyoutube from what i have seen the only ones with gunpowder technology were the dwarves. i mean if souruman had spent a few hundred years developing the urukai into an intelligent race then they might have stud a better chance.
Agree! Although I’m actually quite impressed by the tactics and siege equipment of the Orcs and Uruk Hai in the movies. So often the bad guys in movies just brainlessly charge.
even saruman has glorious won at helm deep. In the book ent already destroy orthac before helm deep. And even he can defeat all ent all saruman has is destroyed base and some army left. But the thing after that is sauron and all free people already know his betrayal anyway. Nearly alone completely with broken base and not much army i think he will eventualy lost anyway.
Was interested until you said movie not book. Sorry I loved the movies but when the elves showed up was a real disappointment and poorly thought out change by P. Jackson in my opinion.
The whole defensive layout to Helms Deep is utterly wrong. First, HD does not have any strategic value sitting where it is. Second, why is the main wall not across the entrance to the valley? Third, what purpose does the wall to the left have? You are wasting men defending it. Why is there no drawbridge? Tolkien based the his timeline on 17th century Europe, so there should have been a drawbridge at the top of the ramp. Finally, all you had to do to defeat the garrison, is put a small amount of your force above the keep on the cliffs and roll boulders down onto the city. Like I said, the whole layout of HD is utterly wrong.
The issue with your tactic is humanity, you are using your logical thinking and feelings to create a brilliant strategy, the forces of sauruman aren’t that bright
Thank you all for 10,000 plus views!!!! It's taken so long to make the video so I am really glad to be part of this amazing community!!!
Just a small correction: It aren´t the Ents that attack the Uruk army, but the Hurons. Hurons are trees that can move but aren´t able to speak, so the wood the Uruks are running into, are all moving sentinent trees who on their way towards Helms Deep. So even with your victory over the forces of men and evles, you would have been crushed by nature in the aftermath. But good vid anyway!
Well they have actually won Helms Deep battle if not consider unexpected appearance of Gendalf with reinforcement
not in the book
@@gullfeber You think Erkenbrand wasn't nessecary? Theoden and entourage could have just continued their sally until happy everafter?
Actually they would have won if they hadn't been chopping down the trees of fangorn
In the book a mayor part of the force is made up of dunlendings who surrender as erkenbrand and the hourns show up
Well fact is he did.
Small note, the rain actually wouldn't have been a large disadvantage, it would have muddied the ground and was an advantage to the defenders as it would bog down the uruk hai army. Even with "reduced" visibility elven archers are phenomenal and the wide open valley leading to Helms Deep offers an archers wet dream. Just point and shoot, you'll hit something. So accuracy isn't necessarily an issue.
fair point!
actually they were pretty armored, so you needed to aim, even Legolas points it out
This was pretty fun to watch! Just imagining the Uruks actually using advanced tactics combined with their physical toughness and heavy armor would make for a much deadly force indeed.
Thank you so much for watching!!! Yeah I love this and wish more movies depicted competent opponents like in LOTR.
@@JohnnyLukyoutube Sadly they absolutely ruined the battle tactics in "The Shannara Chronicles" when it was made a TV show. In the book the elves are outnumbered 1000 to 1 against the demons. They're holding them at a bottle neck in a mountain pass, allowing smalling groups to pass through before cutting off the bottle neck and using calvary to surround and destroy them before letting another small group through, and repeat. Then they fell back behind the city walls when they sustained too many casualties to hold the pass any longer. In the TV show the elves are still outnumbered 1,000 to 1 and they don't show the battle at the pass. Then at the city, instead of being on the city walls, they meet the demons in the forest in front of the city at the top of a trench. Then they charge into the trench and start clashing with the demons there. Tactically one of the stupidest battles I've ever seen on screen.
My man just out her declaring himself the winner of fictional battles. I didn't know we could do that.
Epic gamer moment
Imagine if the army consisted of 10,000 beserkers
They would save a lot of money on steel! must be a nightmare to control tho!
They would have been cut down just the same. If not easier, they have no armour and would have been slaughtered by archers and would have trouble fighting in close quarters despite their fury they have no armour to protect them. Judging by their weapons they would not be able to defend against a rohirim charge. In the film the only reason the pikes couldn’t defend against the rohirim was because of Gandalf’s light but without it I’m sure the Uruk hai would be able to defeat the rohirim with pikes. Berserkers are armed with greatswords by the looks of it not ideal to use against cavalry. And my final point that the Beserkers are Ill disciplined and would fail to form battle lines and would leave themselves in loose formation making it heaven for a cavalry charge
@@unga8588 greatswords are the best alternative to polearms against cavalry. In japan it was a somewhat common alternative to use against horsemen to the pike that was also highly common
@@clonetf141 you are right but look at the great sword that the berserkers use. It has no point, only two blades that stick out either side at the top, not good for stabbing
@@unga8588 tbf the hooked end of the berserkers weapons are probably the next best thing other than the pikes, for taking out horses. You wouldn't wanna 'stab' an oncoming horse with a sword. but yeah... keeping cohesion with an army of berserkers would be a nightmare... i mean, it's a job to keep orcs in line anyway. the uruks are pretty much the equivalent of human berserkers as is. xD
That elf charge aragorn led was such a big mistake and this video proves why. 🙂
Haha yes! The most epic cinematography ever - but tactically suicidal!
they shouldve just stayed there doing volleys until the uruks got closer then swapped to swords
Wonderful scene but yea I never knew why they did that lol by the time they charged they already had their pike line ready. Maybe if they had pushed up the choke before the Uruks rushed in but that still would’ve led to many many casualties they could’ve used for better defended areas 🤷♂️
Let's say: Peter Jackson has no clue about real medieval tactics. He prefers stupid head-on attacks because these seem to be the most valiant ones. He did so with Aragorn and the poor elves at Helm's Deep, the Rohirrim'charge directly into a pike wall at Helm's Deep, the famous Rohirrim charge into a wall of pikes and spears at Minas Tirith, another one head-on against the Mumakils and Aragorns one man charge into pikes at the Black Gate.
The elves charge and the cavalry charge at Helm's Deep were't in the book. First, there were no elves. And the Rohirrim charge was done by foot which was logical because the mountain walls around Helms Deep were too steep for horses. So, it makes sense. Tolkien had been too long in real war to fantasize about a childish frontal attack as the method of choice. In WW1 this frontal attacks had been used far too often, with devastating results.
He tried to clog the hole as soon as possible so the Uruks couldnt spread out
The moment you place even one mine near the front gate youre risking blowing up the ramp itself. In the movie it blew up a hella thick wall with ease, lat alone a small ramp and the entrance would cave in. The movie version of the battle was perfect, they essentially won, but the zrohhirim saved them. Perhaps if the Uruks did not blow up the wall, they could have easily climbed over sooner or later and just stay inside, horses would be useless then.
at first i also thought that the ramp would be blown up and that it would be a bad idea but from pictures i looked at the ramparts seems preety thick an also i think the uruks placed multiple mines at the wall at the gate you could just use one considering how strong these mines are they would wrack the gate but only one of them would leave the ramp mostly undestroyed and also saruman could have created a weaker mine in the first plays for this job i think its pretty stupid that he didnt. and sure if they would have left the wall standing it would have helped greatly against the rohirrim but they didnt knew they were coming so i think it makes perfect sense that they destroyed the wall
@@Biberbutzemann Thats a fair point about the Uruk's lack of knowledge about the rohirrim. However, I feel like a smaller mine at the gate would be extremely difficult to pull. You can see how narrow it is and how it could be a hassle to carry with raining arrows and spears, especially in such a narrow corridor. Also, lets remember that Saruman didn't probably make just two mines like we see in the movie, but a couple, and they just knew two would do the job. Interesting point tho!
That's an excellent point, given the difficulty in calibrating the mine, perhaps they were instructed by Saruman not to risk targeting the main entrance.
This was super well thought you, you deserve more subscribers
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it. took absolutely ages to edit, do share it out! What battle would you like me to do next?
Johnny Luk totally do Pelenor Fields!! Maybe some Hobbit battles too. Go for it
Something I don't understand is why they had a deeping wall at all. They had an awesome position for the keep, then they give themselves a massive outstretched fortification to defend, and the fortification itself is terrible.
The point of a castle is not to provide a huge, expansive area to defend. It's to provide a small killbox where a small number of men can defend against a larger force. I'm reminded of Rorke's Drift.
Totally agree - it would make a lot more sense for all the defenders to be together at the Keep, thanks for watching :)
The river provides water necessary to hold out
@@majormarketing6552 When under siege by thousands of orcs, I think the small force of defenders can store more water to survive than the enemy can.
Because in the books, if I remember correctly, it defended the glittering caves. It was like a last defense before the caves. In the movies they placed the caves behind the hornburg, but they left in the deeping wall.
@@maxgrozema1093 Ah that makes a lot of sense, thank you for that insight!!
So cool! I love some LOTR content.
Thank you, I really appreciate the kind comment :)
i think what you failed to understand with the Counterchage from the elfs ... is that it is a proven tactic in real life storys ... if you have someone closeing the hole and get into the hole of the wall fast numbers dont matter ... the inner keep door can have been holder for a long long time with pikes from the inside ... and the was only 10k attacking thekeep ... it is in the book ... and normal we say 1 defenter can take out arund 10 before the fall ... you do the math
Your biggest flaw is if you tried this approach the eagles would show up with plot armor and you'd still loose
Just a couple of points:
1. Your general strategy more or less lines up with how events proceeded in the books. Two gunpowder charges were used, one to breach the Deeping wall and the other the front gate. The forces of rohan responded differently, too, and did not wait until they were pushed back to their final line of defense but sallied out the moment the main gate was breached and before the forces of Saruman could form up for their assault. Moreover, when the Deeping wall was breached the forces of rohan did in fact immediately retreat to the Hornburg, movie tactics are by contrast meant to be flashy and dramatic so I can't speak for that part.
2. Your idea of holding up in the Hornburg as a response to Rohirrim reinforcements is completely dependent on the battle within the castle already being completely finished and its defenders already being overrun, which is honestly pretty unrealistic regardless of how fast the outer wall is taken. A pitched battle on two fronts, both within and outside of Helms Deep, would then put the uruks into an incredibly precarious position, and would likely lead to a completely disorganized mob unable to maintain cohesion as the Rohirrim cavalry dismounts and assails the now defenseless battlements while Helms Deep's garrison assaults them from the rear and throws the forces of saruman in complete disarray.
Do you mean the Helms Deep garrison of 50 men who were still alive? In my opinion, only thing that won that battle was plotarmor of characters. Why did Uruk-hai boys run away? They had not show any low morale so why would they lose. If I remember correctly, in books rescue army was on foot. Nonetheless, mounted or dismoutned, they had to march whole night and several days while most of Uruk-Hai army was waiting outside the walls for they turn. Cavalry charge against several thousand of heavy pikemen, swordsmen and crossbowmen would also fail. But still, it is a great movie to watch.
Nice video! Imagine if the elves actually fought smart instead of a bloody suicide charge. You would think they are intelligent immortal creatures who wouldn't throw away their lives so easily. If each of the ~500 elves had say 50 arrows, that's 25,000 arrows. Plus they were supposed to be master archers, so shooting into a packed field means almost every arrow should hit. The Uruk Hai did have armor but battles like Agincourt have shown us arrows actually beat armor. Even if it takes multiple arrows to kill an Uruk, that's a lot of dead orcs...
Totally agree, beautiful charge scene but totally suicidal
What happened at Agincourt?
@@marthvader14 On the 25th of October, 1415 an English army numbering between 6,000 - 8,100 defeated a much larger French army of between 14,000 - 15,000 men, the English army was notable by being composed of about 5/6 archers and 1/6 dismounted men at arms, the massed fire of the archers may have killed a good chunk of the French knights.
Edit:
Src: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt
Dig a ditch to protect your rear and flank. It's easy and stops or at the very least breaks up heavy cavalry formations
Honestly if i was the Urukhai commander i would just Besiege them, the movie states clearly that the rohirrim have almost no Provisions and The Uruks do not know about Gandalf
Now you gotta do a book based version
One major thing Sarumon should have thought of was the use of caltrops, they are basically iron spiked triangles that have been used since ancient Egypt to stop Calvary. I would have lined the slope with the caltrops slowing the calvary down and with drawn the pikeman and position them in the holes in the defenses. Slowing them down further. while thats going on have the crossbowman pick off the Rohan soldiers until know are left.
Loved the video and the topic, if these armies didn't have plot armor they'd be dead already
In the movie they say tens of thousands which by the plural implies the number is anywhere between 20,000 and 99,000.
the movie number is about 42k-44k troops you get to know it in the making off they used miniatures to visualize the amount of soldiers and for this purpose they bough you guessed it that many 42k-44k figures
I´d be much more reluctant to use the fires of Orthank against the gate, as that would likely damage, or even collapse the ramp, which would additionally provide the defenders with the much needed gap.
The only thing that i would have done differently, was to have your pikemen form square, horses wouldnt attack a wall of pikes, also do that whilst plugging up that opening where the rohan renforcment are coming from, that would be the end of that and far, far, far less casulties in the battle. Look up the battle of waterloo for more examples of forming square. Either way i loved the video 👍
An issue is that Orcs and to a lesser extent Uruk Hai are not all that disciplined. When they smell blood and they hear and see slaughter going on they will want to join in. You might be able to tell them how they can join like smashing the gates rather than throwing themselves at the walls. But having them just sit back and do nothing will not be that easy.
indeed, although they seem relatively disciplined at least in the beginning. what an epic battle!
I would like to see one how Bolg could have won the Battle of the Five Armies. Even though it's obvious he should have used the were-worms or waited until the elves and orcs fought each other and diminished in numbers.
Thanks for commenting, great idea!
@@JohnnyLukyoutube you're welcome. I've always been interested in alternative outcomes and how Sauron could have won the War of the Ring.
Battle of helms deep is by far the best
The only way of Uruks victory is if Gimli wasn't in the battle
Gimli is a tough one to beat!
Dude 2 years and only 258 sub? What happened this video was great! Wtf r you doing?!
3:15 '' in the book there was about 20.000''
you sure about that? I always, but I don't know for sure, thought Tolkien indirectly stated there was about 10,000.
Probably other 10,000 in the book were Isengard Orcs, Wargs and Dunlendings.
Sorry your bomb at the gate idea would destroy the thin stone bridge between the gate (it's solid right up to that point so most people miss it) and the ramp meaning you cut off the main entrance. As a defender I would of destroyed that, built a mote Infront of the deeping wall to ladders and block up the stream under the bridge so the overflow would turn the whole field into a bog dramatically slowing down the uraks to be peppered by arrows far longer
still strange how they only brought ballistas and not any trebuchets, onagers or catapults if they are soing a siege of a fortress or that the ballistas only had ballista «arrows» if we can call it that, lobbing bombs over the wall to decimate the defenders would have been great
Indeed, they should take a leaf from their Mordor colleagues!
@@JohnnyLukyoutube yupp
It would be slowing them down tho, and they were cocky. Trebuchets are hard to manuver and has to be built on the battlefield. Simular with catapults. Balistas are somewhat manuverable and stil useful.
@@audunms4780 oh i know, but at army of 10000 uruk-hai not beeing able to build a catapult atleast still pisses me off, also not using a modified ballista to lob bombs 🥺
@@furieeeen If they had enough gunpowder to lob numerous bombs around, they would likely have used it more than they had in the story. Either way, bringing a ballista to storm a castle is a puzzling decision, though it was a part of their plan to storm the walls without needing siege towers in the movie and likely a better plan. Catapults would serve little use in a battle where time is a factor, save for causing ruin to the crenulations of the battlements and inflicting some casualties. You could make the argument that the catapults would not have lent them any aid that their armament in the films already provided.
You should do another one as this is one of your most watched videos
Thank you so much for the encouragement! I am thinking of actually creating a dedicated channel for these animations! What battle would you like to see next? I was thinking perhaps the opening scene of Gladiator?
@@JohnnyLukyoutube minas tirith! (though the ghost army might make that one impossible)
cool vid, deserves more views
Thank you so much, this message means a lot, took so much effort to make !!! haha...
@@JohnnyLukyoutube Clearly you put time and effort in, deserves more attention that's the truth
7:23 I mean, considering the uruk-hai in this shot almost cut off the back entrance to the keep, I think it would've been hard to *just* retreat.
Wow johnny you know your stuff about helms deep! 😃
One of my many semi not so useful life knowledge haha
the one thing that has always been strange to me was why would you only bring ballostas if you are gonna siege a fort 😅 onager or catapults would have been a better choice to break those walls
I thought I was the only battle nerd in the world
Ha you are definitely not alone on this one! Love this stuff.
@@JohnnyLukyoutube Yes I'm glad 😁👍
Some of the Uruk Hai pike men should have been positioned on the opposite side of the steep slope at the top. The cavalry could never have made it through them then. They could also have dug trenches and pits to the rear and on their flanks along with caltrops to stop any potential cavalry charge.
Totally agree, they should have fortified their rear!
how the uruk hai could've won?
My answer: More berserkers
Always rooted for the uruk hai.
Id have formed 5 waves.
1st wave would consist of purely probbing forces but still attemtping to capture the deeping wall.
2nd wave would reinforce the deeping wall attack group and start a proper assualt on the gate. The ballistas would shoot at the defenders wooden defences
Then i would call for a fighting retreat. Prepare the 3rd wave but have crossbows and ballistas keep firing.
When the 3rd wave is ready they would strike again at the same places but this time bring sapper teams. One blows up the gate and the other the deeping wall. That would be the entire 3rd wave.
4th wave would rush the gaps made by the sappers and where needed the 5th wave would attack aswell.
1st wave: 1000 uruk hai
2nd wave: 3000 uruk hai
3rd wave: 1000 uruk hai
4th wave: 2000 uruk hai
5th wave: 3000 uruk hai
The uruk hai that survived previous waves would be divided across the 4th and 5th wave giving them time to rest inbetween attacks.
I also choose not to do the sensibke thing of placing pikemen on the slopes since it feels like cheatung since hindisght is 20/20.
If all goes well and as planned the 3rd and 4th waves would have broken the defenders. By the time the reinforcements arrive helms deep would belong to the uruk hai who would just use the non broken defences. Thisbwould force eomer and his men to dismount for their counter attack.
I would also like to point that that as the commander you would probably be dead when the reinforcements arrive. You would be located near the rear or in the middle of the fields meaning that your position would be over run very fast by eomers soldiers.
Ofcourse the most logical thing would be to have warg rider scouts whod report the incoming rohirrim which would lead to a sensibke decision on relocating yourself and your men
I never understood why there was no moat around the deeping wall. It never made sense to me. Probably a rare blind spot in Tolkien's knowledge. I also didn't understand why the troops that weren't cut down by the sally wouldn't just then go straight into the glittering caves and start the slaughter while the cavalry fought outside.
Indeed, given there is already a stream, it should be fairly straightforward to draw water into a moat. The choke point leading to the caves would also make a pretty good defensive line, compared to spreading all the forces across the relatively weak Deeping Wall. Won't have made as epic of a battle scene tho! Thanks for watching the analysis =)
Ain't no winning when the Will of Eru Illuvitar himself is against you.
Just burn and pillage until they are starved out of helms deep, pretty simple really idk why it was rushed so much
Indeed! like the rest of Rohan, wouldn't have survived through winter!
Because they wanted to win fast to be ready to fight Sauron when Saruman got the ring. That was the plan.
@@majormarketing6552 but if saruman was getting the ring like he though wouldnt it make sense to send his riders or uruks to make sure he got it? Its not like saruman was afraid to get suprised by the rohirim attacking. Im sure his crows would spot an army. And then when he relized merry and pippin didnt have the ring he would of been forced to attack
@@majormarketing6552 your options are destroying a pretty weakened and divided rohan or having the best chance at getting the ring and just winning the war easily
The main lands of the Rohan were actually intact. Eastern Rohan and Eastfold was still a thing and western Rohan wasn't actually destroyed only the westfold was sacked. Theoden retreated his some of the eastern country just because they didnt had any wall to protect them.
Saruman attacked Theoden specificly not Helms Deep, so when/if Theoden was dead, due to being leaderless Rohan would've followed their kings fate. And Saruman was actually afraid that Elfs or other Western Men's would aid their allies so he wanted to act fast.
Also the Glittering Caves did have another entry point above the mountains. So Rohan would've been kept with supplies via Glittering Cave's path. And with water supply Helm's Deep would've holded a lot of time.
And if Uruks kept pilliging Aragorn's people (Dunedain) or Gondor (they did a lot of reserves) would (maybe) arrive to aid them.
Movies were good, but books didn't had this much flaws.
In the movie, the Hornburg is depicted at the bottom of the mountain, which is a very poor choice. The Uruk should have sent a detachment to climb the mountainside and bombard defenders from above.
Considering Helms Deep AKA "The Hornberg" in the films was stupidly designed, you could have just built towers/catapults/trebuchets/sapping tunnels. You Could have build a armoured battering ram small enough to fit the ramp seeing as there was no draw bridge. You could scale the mmountai with a few hundred or thousands of you men to stretch their lines.
I think the strategy outlined would have taken longer and been hit by the cavalry before they could accomplish everything. They should have just did what they did but immediately fortify the wall instead of leaving their troops out in the open. Holding just two spots (breach in wall and front gate) against a cavalry charge would have been very advantageous on its own, even if they couldn't get all the crossbows on the battlements in time. They don't even need to remove their ladders... Which could be used by the crossbows to climb directly into position.
i just wanna say cool video i liked it i just wanna say some things though you positioned your troops in a way where they'd be better off unlike the movie or book where they just swarm them but i feel like that might backfire yeah firing cross bow shots at the elves to ither distract or kill them might work but sending only a small portion of troops to attack the men might not work cause they just throw spears and fire arrows into what little force you sent and not to mention some elves would be shooting your troops at the main entrance with arrows rendering them useless but let's say you turtle shell your troops up to the ramp and maybe at this point only loss 200 troops while the men loss none and the elves loss maybe 20 placed you placed your gun powder at the front gate and at where it was placed at in the film you blow up both gun pwoeders over at the main gate the gunpowder just completely rekts the front gate the men denfeding it and the stone strucer aroudn the frot gate killing 50 men and injuring about 45 men in the process your troops storm into the fortress and the men immeitaly retreat back your troops instead of chasing them hunt down and slaughter the wounded now at the wall the wall blows up not like the movie seeing has you only used one piece of gunpowder but it still blows up quite a bit of the wall now at this point you would of already had forces on the top of the wall battleing the elves so the elves had lost lests say 150 troops and you lost 300 troops the wall so anyways the wall blows up and the elves retreat instead of engaging you lets say they retreat to the stares goig into the main keep and releash some arrows into your troops killing lets say 200 more of your troops but before the elves relazie it your other forces close in on the elves from behind so with all your troops barrowing in on the elves and ignoreing the men lets say you wipe out the elves but lose about 1,275 of your troops now its just you and the men the men retreat into the keep and use what ever they can find you barricade the entrance and start leading the women and chieldren out of the cave and into a mountain while the rest of the men try there best at keeping the entrance closed you rally all of your troops into the fortress claim it has your own you use what little gunpowder you had at the keeps doors blowing the doors up you charge into the keep but are met with a cavlery charge lets say this charge kills 50 of your troops but is halted and you wipe out all of the calvery charge with pike men and cross bow men you then send your troops into the keep and kill any remaining men you find wiping out the defenders now before you can chase down the women and the chieldren reinforcemnts arrive and they go gtfo and elave lol jk no you are met with 2,000 reinforcments all on horse they charge the fortress but they do slaughter all of your forces that decide to meet them head on so i say they kill close to 1,780 of your forces now you still greatly out number them you use cross bos and bows from the dead men and elves and wipe out 300 of the reinforcements now at this point they would be able to reach the troops on the fortress walls or the keeps walls so you keep fireing arrows into the reinforcements and you are able to wipe them out now the ents do not engage in your troops becasue one they where battling the Isengard fortress and two even if the ents where around Helms Deep your troops would all run into the keep where the ents cant get to go through the cave and enter the mountain pass there you would find the women and children and slaughter them leaving you with 6,195 troops and the men with 0 and the elves with 0 now heres my question after conquerring Rohan do you A go to Gondor and help Mordor or do you B go to Gondor and help well Gondor casue i can see two out comes A you go to Gondor and you along with Mordor just wipe out Gondor casue there wont be no Rohan or Army Of The Dead reinforcements but B you realzie that Mordor is a massive force and go oh crap the enemy of my enemy is my friend and go to Gondors aid wiping out Mordor?
Often wonder just what exactly the Deeping Wall was defending. Was there actually anything in the valley behind it? If not then surely the defenders would have been wasting their manpower there and better off concentrating their defences on the keep and glittering caves.
You are very right! Another commenter mentioned that in the book the Deeping Wall defended the caves, which would make sense then to protect it, but in the movie that wasn't the case. Totally agree they should concentrate their forces rather than spread themselves out, my only theory would be that the elves wanted to maximise their arrow output from the start and probably underestimated how fast the Uruk Hai would swamp them (plus bombs!) Thanks for watching, what should i make next?
How the cavalry charged through a pike wall I will never know.
Wizard blinding light and plot armour!
It's not hard to understand. Orcs and Uruk Hai don't like light
Whats the name of the movie in the scene with roman soldiers?
Fire the bombs over the wall. Seek out the 2000 horse reinforcements, blow them away as well. Fully surround helms deep on both sides of the mountain. Starve them out. Get more explosives and constantly hammer them. Once all defences are weary and breached unleash the full might of orcs. Battle one through patients, logistics and understanding the lay of the land.
Won*
10:05 That forest wasn't the ents. It was the huorns. A different kind of being.
The first thing they would've to work around is the plot-armor of the main characters. As regular enemy side characters, this is an almost impossible task.
Look at the ground when the sun comes up lmao.
Helms Deep is awesome! But I have to go with the Battle of Minas Tirith which is the greatest scene in cinema history.
we are blessed to have such a wonderful trilogy, its a bar that I don't think has yet passed yet!
i do disagree with the sally out not beeing able to reach the ramp, ith your troops are not in a strongly packed formation a charge of horsemen would be able to reach the ramp given the higher mass and momentum they would have on impact
That's a good point! Thanks for taking the time to watch it!
@@JohnnyLukyoutube what can i say, i’m a sucker for Lotr and theories about Lotr 👍
Thinking the uruk-hai could have also dug trenches at the base of the steep slope and lined the edges with stakes
great point! a lot of the uruk hai was just waiting around most of the night , when they could have been used better.
before watching the video i say
just use catapults and bombard them from further away
The easiest way the Uruks could have won at Helm's Deep would have been for Saruman to invent cruise missiles instead of black powder. The could have destroyed the entire Rohan army from 1,000 miles away. But clearly he was too lazy and unimaginative for that. Totally preventable loss. Saruman has no one but himself to blame.
Do you know the element of surprise? It's easy when you have already seen how the battle will go and make your strategy out of that. Nobody would have expected gandalf and his reinforcements, and your strategy to counter gandalf and his forces in the keep wouldn't work cause your men just didn't have enough time to get there. Also no one would have expected the cavalery charge out of the caves and wouldn't be able to react on that immediateley. Also there is no way you could send signals or prepare things quicky when you have no radio or things to communicate with or you yourself as commander would have been really close at the front charges to see what's going on.
What movie/series is 8:27 from?
Rome it seems but can't remember the scene :/
I would have tried to find and destroy the 2000 Rohirrim *before* attacking Helms Deep, or at least be aware of their position.
Even if they won the ents would have taken over the next morning just like they did at Isengard the day before.
true!
Strange why Peter didnt include all the wild men and orcs in the scene
Yeah, and missing out the Easterlings in the third movie!
If you play the battle for middle earth pc game you can actually do this
how the battle really went...
Uruk: haha we won all we gotta do is stop this cavaly charge and we got 50 ranks deep of pikes, half will crush the other half to death...oh sh!t plot armor aahhhh!!!
plot armour is certainly strong! thanks for watching!
The problem is that the urukai hai weren't that advanced they didn't have explosives the only thing they had was overwhelming numbers. Had sarumon actually had the Darvish technology of blasting powder for explosives the orcs would have slaughter the roherum eather.
Ah are you suggesting they under utilised their gunpowder technology? I’m impressed they didn’t blow themselves up on the way to Helms Deep haha
@@JohnnyLukyoutube from what i have seen the only ones with gunpowder technology were the dwarves. i mean if souruman had spent a few hundred years developing the urukai into an intelligent race then they might have stud a better chance.
Call mordor for aid.
in reality, the battle was won by the defenders, not the reinforcements
Tell us more!
but they did win helms deep the moment the berserker blew up the walls and forced them to abandon it.
Good For debate but not practical cause
Orcs are numbers focused and other races focus on tactics brut force is the name of the game
Agree! Although I’m actually quite impressed by the tactics and siege equipment of the Orcs and Uruk Hai in the movies. So often the bad guys in movies just brainlessly charge.
@@JohnnyLukyoutube yes specially the ballista, gun powder. Pike focus as counter for cav etc etc
even saruman has glorious won at helm deep. In the book ent already destroy orthac before helm deep.
And even he can defeat all ent all saruman has is destroyed base and some army left. But the thing after that is sauron and all free people already know his betrayal anyway. Nearly alone completely with broken base and not much army i think he will eventualy lost anyway.
Go play total war middle earth and see if it works
Scouts
They couldnt win. Theoden and Aragorn had the IWin button stored in the back....the 5 horse cavalry charge.
Problem is you’re doing this is hindsight so you know what’s coming
indeed, hindsight is 20/20 as they say.
The battle of mins terith
working on it!
Good job. Enjoyed this. But Johnny writers suck and designing realistic battles.
Was interested until you said movie not book. Sorry I loved the movies but when the elves showed up was a real disappointment and poorly thought out change by P. Jackson in my opinion.
brought to you by uruk hai propaganda...i mean news channel!
Make Sauron Great Again!
The whole defensive layout to Helms Deep is utterly wrong. First, HD does not have any strategic value sitting where it is. Second, why is the main wall not across the entrance to the valley? Third, what purpose does the wall to the left have? You are wasting men defending it. Why is there no drawbridge? Tolkien based the his timeline on 17th century Europe, so there should have been a drawbridge at the top of the ramp. Finally, all you had to do to defeat the garrison, is put a small amount of your force above the keep on the cliffs and roll boulders down onto the city. Like I said, the whole layout of HD is utterly wrong.
The issue with your tactic is humanity, you are using your logical thinking and feelings to create a brilliant strategy, the forces of sauruman aren’t that bright
Very true, leadership and a lot of hindsight makes good strategy haha. thanks for watching
Man its a fabtasy story, this battle was made for the Aragorn Win
true, plot armour!
So you winned redoing the siege knowing ,elves retreating at the keep,gandalf attack ect ect?? Even Hitler would have won the ww2 like this imao.
Hindsight is 2020!
Such a waste for an awesome force
a lot of wasted troops and armour indeed!
the two towers is not the greatest movie the fellowship is
Fellowship has better story I agree! Battle is epic tho in this one.
@@JohnnyLukyoutube Agreed. Fellowship: Best story. Two Towers: Best battle, RotK: Best character moments.
You are Arguing the out come of a fake battle