One of my favorite passages in the book is when Aragorn stood up on the wall in parley and warned the Army of Saruman that they had little time left because the dawn was coming. It was one of many times that Aragorn seemed to say prophetic things.
Also I love how in the book version it's Theodens idea(not Aragorns) to charge out with the dawn. Aragorn spends most of that conversation trying to think of how to get theoden to safety, only to see Theoden selflessly sacrifice himself so his people can escape through the caves. I feel like this sort of teaches Aragorn a little bit about what it means to be a King
@@cegesh1459 I see your point but this being TH-cam I'm going to need to break it down to a quantum level lol: only a sith deals in absolutes. Kings are people and As people they are a mixed bag of mostly bad with Some okay, and even a bad king can do good things (and vice versa) Also, this is LotR. The only morally grey realistic-ISH monarch is Denethor. Everyone else is there to serve as a heroic figure to stand against Saurons horde of cannibal monsters, which by comparison make most people look pretty alright, king or otherwise
Disagree, the special effects in helms deep beats your imagination easy! I mean PFFT! When i read this my imagination at best was the old cartoon quality! Lol
I had never heard of LoTR when I reluctantly walked into the theater with my dad to watch The Two Towers. To be honest, I thought the movie sounded a little bit nerdy when he explained the basic story to me. I just wanted to hang out with my dad and have a guys night out. It completely blew my mind. I had absolutely no idea what was going on and I was rediculously confused most of the time, but I didn't care. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. It will always be my favorite movie of all time. It's a masterpiece to me.
Book Battle of Helm's Deep - the elves showing up makes less and less sense the more you dig into the lore. Theoden's character is flattened, draining the fullness of his healing by Gandalf.
I can totally understand and wanting the movie to be more like the book, but also how Peter Jackson made the battle of the Hornburg more of an iconic and unforgettable scene from working with just a few pages is beyond genuine! Also for Hollywood purposes when you see the elves reinforcements out of nowhere it got me so pumped as a little kid back in the day, (still does)! Just my two cents!
I’d argue that movie didn’t have the time to even set up the context of why the elves showing up wouldn’t make sense, so for the purposes of the movie, I think we are to assume that that context isn’t applicable, making the inclusion of the elves acceptable. In the end, for an adaptation, it’s better to do something that doesn’t make sense BECAUSE you’re familiar with the source material than it is to do something that doesn’t make sense UNLESS you’re familiar with the source material, so long as you maintain the adaptation’s own internal consistency. An adaptation needs to be able to stand on its own, and I think it’s safe to say the The Lord of the Rings movies largely succeeded in that, even if things are inconsistent with the books.
The battle for Helms Deep is my favourite part of all 3 films. So much I've made a model of it for 28mm wargaming.(it's huge) I know the elves didn't come in the book but i do really like the costumes for them.
Yeah, the fighting at Osgiliath and Minas Tirith in ROTK felt flat by comparison. For me this was mostly because the Gondor soldiers look utterly incompetent and pathetic. They're supposed to be professionals, yet they get their asses handed to them, even in one-on-one fights, against poorly equipped orcs half their size! While this is fantasy, one of my biggest gripes in these or historical films, is armour is almost always useless in movies, when in reality it worked very well. Even if they were a bunch of moronic incompetents, the Gondorian soldiers still should have been practically invulnerable in full-plate armour, except when overwhelmed by sheer numbers or getting whacked by a troll's hammer!
@@legionarybooks13 ye I'm not much of a fan of ROTK. The part where pippin and gandalf are on the wall as a siege tower disgorges it's orcs and gandalf is just clubbing orcs with his blade and staff and they just die instantly with a bonk. He wallops one in the neck with his sword and don't even brake the skin XD . Not like helms deep where Aragon is chopping off legs and running uruks through. Probably the best scene of the 3 films is Boromir's last stand where he fights with arrows striking out of him then Aragon's duel with Lurtz.
@@L0rdslashstab, ROTK felt anticlimactic, in part because how awesome the Battle of Helms Deep was in the second film. Had the Gondorian soldiers just shown a shred of competency, making it appear that it is numbers alone that overwhelmed them, it would have worked so much better. And yeah, Helms Deep definitely had a more realistic, gritty feel to it. The fighting between the elves / men and Uruks was brutal. One part that always got to me was when the Uruk ram breaches the gate and it impales one of the Rohan soldiers. Savage.
@@legionarybooks13 rofl ye and the guy bashes his head on the gate as the uruks pull the pike back XD and Theoden stabs an uruk in the face with a spear XD it's awesome.
Despite how much I love the movies, there are some things about the Helms Deep battle that irk me... Legolas surfboarding on a shield down the steps while using his bow. Aragon and Gimli throwing themselves into certain danger against a large oncoming swath of orcs. But I do love the feel and sense of dread the movie gives off that feel straight from the books.
I was so very excited at the prospect of the films, however I had not thought that such liberties would be taken. Jackson almost destroyed my love of the story, and this is before seeing Gimli turned into a comedy side note.
@@elizabethanne8729 I left my first time reading of the LOTR so enamoured for how strongly Gimli was able to confront and deal with the contradictions in his life and evolve into more, the film just took the lazy option too many times for me to feel happy watching it. I understand it had to be converted into mass appeal, but it often feels as if it is little more than a poorly edited mix of Gladiator, Carry On Cleo and Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey because it lack authenticity, has poorly placed "humour" when it isn't required and only leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the viewers, but most annoyingly is the reliance on typical Hollywood characters, as is played out in the "romantic tension" between Elessar and Arwen in a piss poor "Will they? Won't they?" 🤢
@@elizabethanne8729 I haven't read the books, I've read Silmarillion but not LOTR... so I don't know how Gimli was built up exactly but I think gimli was brilliant in the movies. I mean John Rhys Davies playing him was awesome, but he was strong and swarthy and even though there was some jokes, like when the party was running after the Uruks that took Merry and Pippin and he was bitching about it, I felt the movie needed such levity. Legolas defying gravity and physics moments were annoying but for the casual like myself you're enjoying a fantasy battle, I can suspend my disbelief a little bit further without taking away from the major battle. I do feel robbed that in the movies you see gimli change a little but we don't see those major changes and how they come about, it's more through travel and killing contests his bond with legolas grows. Still, he's my 3rd favourite character behind Sam and Boromir, so I don't think they did him entirely dirty.
@@tomfrost6049 wait so you’ve read the silmarillion, seen the movies, but not read the actual lord of the rings? How? That makes no sense to me. Who would read the silmarillion but not read the lord of the rings?
I love the movie version, but I really wish the elves wouldn’t have shown up. It truly takes away from the feeling of “this is men, backs against the wall with everything to loose and still fighting to the last.” I would love to see more of the elves, but this isn’t the Last Alliance. This was men fighting tooth and nail for their own survival (and that of the women and children) against insurmountable odds.
If a company of elves shows up, might as well have had Saruman's forces supported by Gundam mecha robots countered by Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli piloting Evas. 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Yeah, for me that was the stupidest thing in the whole movie. Helm's Deep was about the struggles of men, not elves. And I hated how Eomer was relegated to just a small side part in the movies...
A really really cool compare and contrast. I never thought of the lead up and importance within the story and how they played out differently, I only looked at the surface level of how the battles were different. Love a video that totally opens my eyes to a perspective I never knew existed
While I can understand that the way Helm's Deep is portrayed in the film does lessen Theoden as a character I greatly prefer the film version and here is why. Because of the spectacle created is so beautifully done. The scene where Eomer on the crest of the hill shouts "To the King!" to when Gandalf on Shadowfax leaps into battle as the music crescendos is simply breathtakingly beautiful and gives me goosebumps every time I think about it. And yes the Lorien Elves do no appear in the book as they were occupied in Lorien defending their own lands, PJ wanted to show, I think, that all of Middle Earth's habitants were involved in its defense and he could not show the Wars in the North that were happening concurrently. (THAT would make a fantastic stand-alone film that I would most definitely go to see!!) Had PJ not filmed the changed Helm's Deep sequence so masterfully perhaps the character changes would have stood out as huge problems but he nailed it. It is masterfully done!
The book version is my favorite because it gives us my favorite quote "Eomer turned: 'I thank you, Gimli son of Gloin!' he said. 'I did not know that you were with us in this sortie. But oft the unbidden guest proves the best company.' " Not only is this a super dope moment in the books and even though we get the "don't tell the elf" line, the same scene in the movie loses some of its punch for me because Eomer is not there to defend the postern with them and joke with Gimlim but the unbidden guest part is so perfect and one of my favorite lines in all of Tolkien.
the movie depiction is absolutely epic, with some proper OMG moments. The way the outer wall is destroyed, and the wide shots with the ladders was using the medium of film to its advantage in a devastating way.
It is difficult to pick a favorite version when each holds its place in its own venue. I thoroughly enjoyed the books and I particularly preferred the idea that the King would lead and army to divert an enemy from the people -- elderly, women, and children -- in order to keep them safe. I agree that the wisdom of the King is tarnished by the movie version, but I can also see the reasons behind the movie-folks reasons for the change. There is a big difference between holding the attention of a reader of a book and enticing them to invest in the next book in the trilogy, and holding the attention and interest of a movie-goer and enticing them to invest in the sequel. Comparing the way a story is presented in a book as opposed to how it is presented in a movie is much like comparing apples and oranges -- two different venues, two different audiences; thus most often two different opinions.
For what it's worth, I don't even 'get' fantasy, yet I find myself here night upon night, coming back again to this channel. I don't even understand half of it, but it's soothing & righteous, so I've allowed it in my life -- thanks.
I prefer the book version for 2 main reasons: The elf army should not have been involved, and the Hourns and Ents were key and should have played a big role in the film.
Agreed. It was a tragedy how the Ents & Hourns were portrayed. The Elves showing up all the way from Rivendell to help defend Helm's Deep made no sense
Good analysis! The way you point out how Theoden is diminished remind me that I thought that about Frodo. The fact that Jackson remove the Tom Bombadil's chapter has some good reasons behind, but the audience does not see the way Frodo takes care of his friends and stand up as the leader of the hobbits showing courage and will (even if Bombadil rescue them). The remaining of the movie Frodo looks like an agonizing hobbit being carried around, because we don´t understand why the other hobbits and some characters look up at him. It would be great to known your opinion about the portrait of Frodo from book to movies.
Don't forget the Barrow Wights were cut out of the movie too and Frodo had a much more important role in saving everyone at that time even though Tom Bombadil actually saved everyone.
@@Enerdhil exactly... I read the books in Spanish, so several characters and places names are different, but I refer precisely to the Barrow Wights events.
im tied on which version, there both pretty good in different ways. I would love to see a comparison between what really happened at Dol guldur please!! awesome channel and content guys keep it up.x
I'd like to see a video about the difference of Aragorn. He has a very different demeanor in the books. He feels very differently about his lineage and destiny to be king. He also has (at times) a level or arrogance about his power. Another big difference is he carries anduril the entire story. There are lots of other differences as well. I'd love to see a video
I like how Jackson didn’t ruin things with his changes. They work. It kind of bothered me how they created a female elf in the Hobbit that wasn’t in the book. It’s one thing to change scenes. It’s another to completely add a new character not in the lore. The extended editions of the trilogy is definitely the way to go.
I didn't mind Tariel as a character, but the whole love story with her and Kili (or was it Fili?) was so monumentally STUPID, even Evangeline Lilly has openly expressed her disgust towards it. My only other issues with her and Legolas was they had way too much screen time. It would make sense for Legolas to have a cameo, as he is Thranduil's son. I assume he's not mentioned in the book, because Tolkien probably hadn't created him yet in 1937. But it should have been a cameo, like when they ambush the dwarves in Mirkwood, and left at that. Plus Legolas and Tariel are so overpowered, there's never any tension when they're fighting the orcs. I did see a fan edit that cuts the bloated 8 1/2 hour Hobbit trilogy and streamlines to a more manageable 3 hours, 45 minutes, making it far more enjoyable, and more in line with the book.
@@legionarybooks13 In the last two Hobbit movies, Jackson was clearly trying to replicate Aragorn and Arwen's love story from LOTR. Two problems with that: 1. the love story isn't in the book so it's not going to feel organic, natural, or important to the story because it literally can't be. 2. He made it into a love triangle which was even more unnecessary. I'll defend adding Legolas to the movies. I've read that Tolkien wanted to make another edition of The Hobbit where he'd retroactively go back and add Legolas in certain parts but died before he could ever write it. I'll fully agree with you that Legolas being a video game character was really stupid haha.
@@spencerkindra8822, I didn't know that about Tolkien wanting to go back and add him in. I love the charcter, both in book and film, and think Orlando Bloom played it perfectly. But yeah, he was too "videogame-ish" even in the LOTR films. Doing his Super Mario impression in the Hobbit just left me groaning. The love triangle was also really stupid because it stemmed from a really lame dick joke. Plus, elves and dwarves HATED each other. That's why Legolas and Gimli's friendship was so special. Same as was when Galadriel gave Gimli three strands of her hair; something she denied her creepy uncle, Feanor, a few thousand years earlier!
That Hobbit movie burn around 9:50 nearly slayed me, I'm laughing so hard. I love the movie Helm's Deep sequence, it was very epic, but I do miss how much Eomer we get in the books and how he works so well with Aragorn. We don't really get that in the movies. Am I misremembering, I thought Edoras got attacked by wargs during the day sometime before this battle? Anyway, great video, thank you!
Loved the video and would be very interested to see a comparison of the events in the mines of morea in the books and the film. Again love the vids keep up the good work!
Movie version by default as I haven't read the books yet. From what this video has shown me though I do like the changes they made for the movie, as you said too many characters and our attention spans are only so big for a movie. Eomers charge with Gandalf I thought was brilliant and dare I say a bit emotional, Gandalf says "Theodin king stands alone..." and Eomer just rocking up and saying "Not alone" just gives me chills every time. I agree that changing the last final charge from Theodins idea to Aragorn does kind of make him seem weaker however in the broader context, the movie is showing that his people are about to be wiped out and this battle has everything on the line so it's easier to give in to despair. Also this is the story of Aragorn and his rise to take his rightful place as high king, so he has to look stronger than any other man because he's our guy and he inspires everyone else, he manages to take Theodins mind from "I'm about to die and my people in ruin" to "LEEEEEROYYY JENKINS!!!". So I like the movie more by default, once I read the book I may change my mind.
id like to hear about the defense of osgiliath comparison. apparently the fighting prowess of the men of gondor is shown to be more then what we see in the films.
Book version. The idea of Lothlorien sending a battalion of elven archers is just unbelievable. Elves did not meddle in human affairs, unless it affected all peoples. Also, at this point, Lothlorien was under attack by orcs out of Mirkwood. So, pretty dumb. The rest of it is more possible, and a bit closer to actual history of the war of the rings, other than charactor studies. Both Lothlorien south of Mirkwood and the Realm of the Woodland Elves (Legolas's people) were fighting the war on a second front from Mirkwood and Dol Goldur. I'd love to see a movie about those second fronts (as well as the Dwarves and humans fighting at and around Dale) The events leading up to the Battle Under the Trees, what happened just before and after Legolas is sent to Rivendell.(Golem escaping) The tactics of the woodland elves fighting in their very well known (to them) forest while it's burning all around them would be fasinating. Also, what's happening in Lothlorien with there having been several feints and battles with Galadriel expending what's left of her powers would be most interesting. And yeah, would really like seeing the Dwarves of Eribor fight alongside the men of Dale. The death of King Dain and the sacking of Dale and an eventual win for the Dwarves and human's combined would be incredible. Should have been a whole 'nother book, IMHO
I'm not necessarily critical of Peter Jackson choosing to leave out certain characters from the book. Eomer takes the place of Elfhelm (an interesting but not really necessary character), and the charge on horseback is much more thematic and epic. Jackson also adds a greater degree of tension between the overly cautious Theoden and the more heroic Aragorn. But it also makes Theoden's final ride in the Battle of the Pelanor fields feel like more of a character a - from feeble man to proud warrior
Great comparisons. I'll always love the movie scenes but I can't wait to read it for myself in the books. In keeping with Rohan I'd like to see more of Eomer, and also the differences with the army of the dead from book and film.
Regardless of its small page count Helms Deep sure seemed like a major climax in the trilogy. As s little kid it takes a long long time to get to Minas Tirith and this battle fills your thoughts during that slow crawl.
God, I forgot how much I love all the old artwork, pre-Jackson. I used to hang out in bookstores for hours perusing the fantasy and gaming sections. Full of tremendous imagery. Lit my mind on fire in the best way.
Yeah, but a lot of the details in that imagery is just wrong. They often get the armor, weapons and other details so wrong you wonder if they even read the books.
The film version wouldn't have worked as a book and the book version wouldn't have worked as a film. The film version of Theodan made for more of a redemption story for the Third film, making his part more relevant. The introduction of elves also gives the film a chance to explore the influence of Elrond and Galadriel on Middle Earth which otherwise would have been completely omitted
I agree. His redemption and charge of the Return of the King is epic and one the best cinematic events in history. I really applaud Jackson for giving his character that awesome scene. I cry thinking about it every time.
The whole story of the books was that it was MEN'S time to rule, and the influence of the elves was fading. They wouldn't have had much influence left, especially with their whole leaving the continent AND fighting a war in Lorien.
I never quite got into the Lord of the Rings books as a kid however watching your channel makes me not only want to read them but any other book that gives me pieces of Lord of the Rings lore it's such a fascinating world and Sowell develops like Star Wars it's really enjoyable
Two topics: the radical transformation of Farmir's character in the movies (which I do not like: I love the movies in general, but find myself skipping the parts with Faramir when watching them on DVD, such is my distaste for the film Faramir); the omitting the Scouring of the Shire (here I can see both sides, pro and con).
This is one of the times where the movie does it better. I like the idea of Eomer having his moment, riding down the mountain with Gandalf. I like Theoden being a “lesser king” but still doing what is necessary and all he can do until the very end.
This is one of the few moments I have to give to the movie version. I still remember sitting on the edge of my seat in the theater memorized by the visual of the battle
True story: The original gate was built SO well that the ram did nothing. A perfect example of how set people, with enough time and materials, can build anything!
Great vid. I love the book and film but prefer the film here - I love all the extra stakes and “win here or cease to exist” tension in the film, the weakness of the Rohirrim which the book does hint at, and Theoden’s feeling of being an impotent lesser King which is so important to his later decision to ride to Gondor and the amazing line from the book and film about him going to his fathers’ in whose might company he is no longer ashamed. Also love the uniform ordered terrifying ranks of Uruk hai, which would have been diminished with lots of orcs and wild men. Has the industrialised theme to their army which I agree works well for Saruman
I'd like to see a video on all the deeds and words attributed to different characters between the book and the films. There's what seems to me a deliberate change in focus which glorifies certain characters at the expense of others. I'd also like to know your opinion of Denethor as portrayed in both film and book as it is my feeling that he is dealt with very poorly in the film adaptation, wereas he is a complex and tragic character in the book and another perspective would be interesting.
Hi! New subscriber here, loving the channel, thanks so much for the excellent content! As for Book vs. Film, I'm a bit torn. Mostly I prefer the books to the films but when it comes to the battles the films do such an amazing job with the fight sequences and spectacle of it all that I can tolerate the loads of changes made. The elves showing up led by Haldir is the only exception to this as it makes us wonder why the elves aren't helping more. As you say, in the books, the elves of Loth Lorien and even Murkwood are busy with their own fights. This point is understated in the films and makes the elves seem uncaring of the plight of men and Haldir's small host seems somewhat paltry. Like the elves can't be bothered to send more or something rather than being embroiled in battle for their own homes. As for the character switches, I kinda like that in the film. Eomer is one of my favorite characters and I like his role in the films. For the LotR trilogy, I love the events in the films and the book's events to mingle in my mind. (The Hobbit? That's a different story.) I would love more of these comparisons, perhaps the Hobbits journey from the Shire to Bree could be next? Loads of differences there. And a special thank you for the Tauriel slight, lol! What was Peter Jackson up to with that?? What, did the Lost island send Kate to Middle Earth to be a love interest for Kili? Maybe the lost island is actually Numenor, lol! Anyway sorry to ramble, keep the great content coming! Cheers!
@@AudraT Could have been another entire movie. The four returning Hobbits plus some new charactors, and some old charactors (from the book) like Tom Cotton, Farmer Maggot and Rosie revisited and expanded. It would be a bit difficult to bring in the now powerless Saruman, but could be worked in and around, since the non extended version of the movie didn't show his death. Could be made long enough with some of the events of the 4 years before Frodo leaves for the Havens, too.
Make a video about the differences between The movie and book versions of not Just the Battle of Minas Tirith but the others leading up to It, like the siege and battle of Osgiliath that had been going on for so long to their attack on the Pelennor Fields before the Rohirrim did it!
I think not having the women & children go to Dunharrow in the film also takes a little bit away from Eowyn's character and capabilities as a leader. She was *chosen* by the people to lead them to Dunharrow when Theoden had intended to pick one of his men. On the other hand, she barely appears in "The Two Towers", so I guess they needed more for her to do and to more strongly establish the desire she had for Aragorn.
It had been about two years since I last read the books when this movie came out but ,some of the differences I noticed most were the ones at helms deep. There are lots of reasons why elves didn't show up. And Theoden was healed by Galdalf and was a big hero and led the charge through the gate.
The book version for me primarily because of something you mentioned. I like the idea of the men of Rohan saving themselves instead of relying on help from the Elves. But, I did enjoy both.
I think a lot of the creative decisions taken by Jackson and Walsh in the original trilogy all had intent and purpose behind them. Many nods to other characters and moments throughout the books. I think that the elves arriving at helms deep to support Aragorn is a nod to the sons of Elrond who accompanied him along the paths of dead and the subsuming battles
For another comparison video, how about Dernhelm? I LOVED the way the book hides Eowyn until her glorious moment of triumph. It's one of my favorite literary moments in any book. I was generally very happy with the LotR movies, but this one thing I would have changed.
The film version was much bigger in scale than the book version, and had many unnecessary changes & additions (no Eomer, Elves from Lorien, the entire population of Edoras being there, the Warg attack, Aragorn falling off the cliff, etc). The book version took up less than a single chapter and was purely a military excursion while the women & children went to Dunharrow. Book version was quick and to the point, leading to the much more important visit to Isengard & parley with Saruman (which was inexplicably moved to the third movie and mostly removed from the theatrical version). And can someone please explain to filmmakers that someone yelling "FIRE!" to archers was not something done before the use of firearms?
I've been playing the Lord of the Rings Online recently, and it's story is based more on the books, rather than the movies. I got my character up to the battle of Helm's Deep, and while preparing, i was sent to talk to Legolas, and he makes a reference to (or takes a jab at) the movie version of the battle, saying how magnificent it would be if the elves could be there, although they were too far away to help. Just an interesting thing i found that relates to the video a bit.
Movie helms deep takes it for me. Enjoy it way more than the Book. Although I appreciate what the book does for characters, and how much more detailed it was. The spectacle of the huge on screen battle, mm mm mm
I definitely prefer the book battle because it is the thoughts of Tolkien, but it is amazing to see such a detailed, large-scale battle in script and action.
I personally prefer the movie version. Having the entire population shored up inside gives the battle an extra sense of purpose and desperation. And having the elves enter the battle, bringing the two races, one to the aid of the other is extremely touching.
Whether in the battle of helm's deep or in the rest of the movies in general, its a shame how underutilized gimli is as a character in those key scenes, compated to the books
"We loosed every arrow that we had, and filled the Dike with Orcs. But it will not halt them long. Already they are scaling the bank at many points, thick as marching ants. But we have taught them not to carry torches." one of my favorite lines from the books.
More video- The battles in the Last Alliance. There are more in the book I like then in the movie. One Theodin’s character I agree with you. I liked that in the book he intends to take soldiers to fight instead of escaping to Helms Deep. Two Eromir going with them instead of Gandalf finding him. Third The Elves were ok, though it would have shown Rohan to be stronger fighting for themselves. Peter Jackson did a good job, though I would have had either Gandalf get more Rohiran to come or get the elves. Still it’s hard to make 13 pages into 10% of a movie.
They should have included the Dundlanders in the movie and made them the defeat the Rohirim. The Dundlanders are a noble people with their clubs, grunting and wild ways.
"Gamling" in Swedish is literally a word for "old person" with a kind of negative clang. So as an early teen when I read the Swedish version of The Lord of the Rings I thought it was a mean nickname for one of the generals 😅 it wasn't until I saw the films I realised it was his actual name
I really appreciate this type of video, compare and contrast. That said, I loved the movies. I knew there were differences, but the spirit of the books was there, so easily forgiven. Unlike the elf/dwarf romance in The Hobbit, that was so annoying.
It has been far too long since I have read the books to make a more fair or objective decision. However the movie depiction is visually stunning and to me it still stands as one of the greatest onscreen battles in cinematic history. The one thing that was a bit unnecessary to me was the inclusion of the Elves. For one, where did they come from and who sent for them that a massive task force was marshalled and arrived in time before the Uruk army did? For another the use of the Elves also robs Men from being the deserved stewards of Middle-Earth and capable of standing alone against evil, without the aid of immortals Elves (who were already fleeing at this time). I think a rekindling of the Last Alliance should have been reserved for the March on the Black Gate, as Men and Elves had done during the Second Age.
Book is much better in my opinion, although the movie version is pretty good too. I would love to see a video about the elves in Helm's Deep! I would also love to see comparisons for characters, specifically Gimli, Elrond, and Faramir!
Literally the only problem I had was the Elves showing up. I would have liked it better if it was all Rohan. I really feel like it kinda stepped on their moment. But they had a great moment at Pellenor Fields so it's all good.
I enjoy them all, but the 1978 version of Lord the Rings depiction of the battle is by far the best. The mood of that scene mesmerized me as a child and led to numerous times of me recreating the battle in my imagination.
I'l admit i've not read the book, but from what i'm hearing here and the other videos on this channel, i think i might prefer the book variant of the battle.
I like the movie version because of the visuals. The elves showing up was “meh” and didn’t make sense, and I hated the final charge down the hill. Would have been a waste of fine cavalry. Overall, still the highlight battle of all the movies for me.
Watched the movies some five times, my fav movie is the 2 towers, now im reading the books, and reading the book and seeing how different it is from the movie is like reading a totally new stories but with some visual help in the imagination. I still think that the movies are good, but the books is ofc more detailed and is awesome too.
One of my favorite passages in the book is when Aragorn stood up on the wall in parley and warned the Army of Saruman that they had little time left because the dawn was coming. It was one of many times that Aragorn seemed to say prophetic things.
Was disappointed they did not have that scene when I first saw the movie, one of my favorites in the book.
Also I love how in the book version it's Theodens idea(not Aragorns) to charge out with the dawn. Aragorn spends most of that conversation trying to think of how to get theoden to safety, only to see Theoden selflessly sacrifice himself so his people can escape through the caves. I feel like this sort of teaches Aragorn a little bit about what it means to be a King
Kings are tyrants. All of them. The end.
But I See your point. Good take.
@@cegesh1459 I see your point but this being TH-cam I'm going to need to break it down to a quantum level lol: only a sith deals in absolutes. Kings are people and As people they are a mixed bag of mostly bad with Some okay, and even a bad king can do good things (and vice versa)
Also, this is LotR. The only morally grey realistic-ISH monarch is Denethor. Everyone else is there to serve as a heroic figure to stand against Saurons horde of cannibal monsters, which by comparison make most people look pretty alright, king or otherwise
Nice observation and point.👍
@@cegesh1459 and democracy can be just as tyrannical. Perhaps even worse in its extreme.
And i love the counting battle which already has began between legolas and gimmli in the book. But at the end for me the film idea was more epic
YESSS - *"Yes. Yes! The horn of Helm Hammerhand shall sound in the deep, one last time!"*
Forth Helmingaaaas!
ELENDIL!!!
Books will always be better.
But the scene of helms deep is one of the greatest scenes in the history of movies.
fax machine saying facts
Disagree, the special effects in helms deep beats your imagination easy!
I mean PFFT! When i read this my imagination at best was the old cartoon quality! Lol
I had never heard of LoTR when I reluctantly walked into the theater with my dad to watch The Two Towers. To be honest, I thought the movie sounded a little bit nerdy when he explained the basic story to me. I just wanted to hang out with my dad and have a guys night out. It completely blew my mind. I had absolutely no idea what was going on and I was rediculously confused most of the time, but I didn't care. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. It will always be my favorite movie of all time. It's a masterpiece to me.
Actually no
For me books were sometimes really boring and movies not, and some scenes are better in movies than in the books like death of Boromir
Book Battle of Helm's Deep - the elves showing up makes less and less sense the more you dig into the lore. Theoden's character is flattened, draining the fullness of his healing by Gandalf.
My opinion I like seeing the elves
Agreed. I sat in the movie theater thinking it didn't make sense at all.
It was supposed to be Rangers; Aragon's kinsmen, the Dunedain of the North
I can totally understand and wanting the movie to be more like the book, but also how Peter Jackson made the battle of the Hornburg more of an iconic and unforgettable scene from working with just a few pages is beyond genuine!
Also for Hollywood purposes when you see the elves reinforcements out of nowhere it got me so pumped as a little kid back in the day, (still does)! Just my two cents!
I’d argue that movie didn’t have the time to even set up the context of why the elves showing up wouldn’t make sense, so for the purposes of the movie, I think we are to assume that that context isn’t applicable, making the inclusion of the elves acceptable.
In the end, for an adaptation, it’s better to do something that doesn’t make sense BECAUSE you’re familiar with the source material than it is to do something that doesn’t make sense UNLESS you’re familiar with the source material, so long as you maintain the adaptation’s own internal consistency.
An adaptation needs to be able to stand on its own, and I think it’s safe to say the The Lord of the Rings movies largely succeeded in that, even if things are inconsistent with the books.
The battle for Helms Deep is my favourite part of all 3 films. So much I've made a model of it for 28mm wargaming.(it's huge) I know the elves didn't come in the book but i do really like the costumes for them.
Oh I'm jealous of that
Yeah, the fighting at Osgiliath and Minas Tirith in ROTK felt flat by comparison. For me this was mostly because the Gondor soldiers look utterly incompetent and pathetic. They're supposed to be professionals, yet they get their asses handed to them, even in one-on-one fights, against poorly equipped orcs half their size! While this is fantasy, one of my biggest gripes in these or historical films, is armour is almost always useless in movies, when in reality it worked very well. Even if they were a bunch of moronic incompetents, the Gondorian soldiers still should have been practically invulnerable in full-plate armour, except when overwhelmed by sheer numbers or getting whacked by a troll's hammer!
@@legionarybooks13 ye I'm not much of a fan of ROTK. The part where pippin and gandalf are on the wall as a siege tower disgorges it's orcs and gandalf is just clubbing orcs with his blade and staff and they just die instantly with a bonk. He wallops one in the neck with his sword and don't even brake the skin XD . Not like helms deep where Aragon is chopping off legs and running uruks through. Probably the best scene of the 3 films is Boromir's last stand where he fights with arrows striking out of him then Aragon's duel with Lurtz.
@@L0rdslashstab, ROTK felt anticlimactic, in part because how awesome the Battle of Helms Deep was in the second film. Had the Gondorian soldiers just shown a shred of competency, making it appear that it is numbers alone that overwhelmed them, it would have worked so much better. And yeah, Helms Deep definitely had a more realistic, gritty feel to it. The fighting between the elves / men and Uruks was brutal. One part that always got to me was when the Uruk ram breaches the gate and it impales one of the Rohan soldiers. Savage.
@@legionarybooks13 rofl ye and the guy bashes his head on the gate as the uruks pull the pike back XD and Theoden stabs an uruk in the face with a spear XD it's awesome.
I was wondering when will you reupload this great video, we need more this book vs movie videos, just keep going!!!!!!
I absolutely love the books. But the movie version of this battle was just so epic!
Despite how much I love the movies, there are some things about the Helms Deep battle that irk me... Legolas surfboarding on a shield down the steps while using his bow. Aragon and Gimli throwing themselves into certain danger against a large oncoming swath of orcs. But I do love the feel and sense of dread the movie gives off that feel straight from the books.
I was so very excited at the prospect of the films, however I had not thought that such liberties would be taken. Jackson almost destroyed my love of the story, and this is before seeing Gimli turned into a comedy side note.
@@dambrooks7578 yeah I felt like the movies kinda did Gimli dirty.
@@elizabethanne8729 I left my first time reading of the LOTR so enamoured for how strongly Gimli was able to confront and deal with the contradictions in his life and evolve into more, the film just took the lazy option too many times for me to feel happy watching it. I understand it had to be converted into mass appeal, but it often feels as if it is little more than a poorly edited mix of Gladiator, Carry On Cleo and Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey because it lack authenticity, has poorly placed "humour" when it isn't required and only leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the viewers, but most annoyingly is the reliance on typical Hollywood characters, as is played out in the "romantic tension" between Elessar and Arwen in a piss poor "Will they? Won't they?" 🤢
@@elizabethanne8729 I haven't read the books, I've read Silmarillion but not LOTR... so I don't know how Gimli was built up exactly but I think gimli was brilliant in the movies. I mean John Rhys Davies playing him was awesome, but he was strong and swarthy and even though there was some jokes, like when the party was running after the Uruks that took Merry and Pippin and he was bitching about it, I felt the movie needed such levity.
Legolas defying gravity and physics moments were annoying but for the casual like myself you're enjoying a fantasy battle, I can suspend my disbelief a little bit further without taking away from the major battle.
I do feel robbed that in the movies you see gimli change a little but we don't see those major changes and how they come about, it's more through travel and killing contests his bond with legolas grows.
Still, he's my 3rd favourite character behind Sam and Boromir, so I don't think they did him entirely dirty.
@@tomfrost6049 wait so you’ve read the silmarillion, seen the movies, but not read the actual lord of the rings? How? That makes no sense to me. Who would read the silmarillion but not read the lord of the rings?
I love the movie version, but I really wish the elves wouldn’t have shown up. It truly takes away from the feeling of “this is men, backs against the wall with everything to loose and still fighting to the last.” I would love to see more of the elves, but this isn’t the Last Alliance. This was men fighting tooth and nail for their own survival (and that of the women and children) against insurmountable odds.
If a company of elves shows up, might as well have had Saruman's forces supported by Gundam mecha robots countered by Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli piloting Evas. 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Agreed
I think it was a nice touch. It harkened back to the last alliance,as the last of the free peoples in the mark fight against evil.
@@skelo9033
Then Tolkien would have changed the first alliance's name to The Penultimate Alliance of Elves and Men.
Yeah, for me that was the stupidest thing in the whole movie. Helm's Deep was about the struggles of men, not elves. And I hated how Eomer was relegated to just a small side part in the movies...
Book. For all his talk about “men” Peter Jackson always undermines the greatest triumphs of men in LOTR
Yeah, he has some kind of a boner for elves, that is super apparent...
A really really cool compare and contrast. I never thought of the lead up and importance within the story and how they played out differently, I only looked at the surface level of how the battles were different. Love a video that totally opens my eyes to a perspective I never knew existed
I would like to see the differences between the Shelob section of the story, along with all character differences, especially Faramir and Legolas
While I can understand that the way Helm's Deep is portrayed in the film does lessen Theoden as a character I greatly prefer the film version and here is why. Because of the spectacle created is so beautifully done. The scene where Eomer on the crest of the hill shouts "To the King!" to when Gandalf on Shadowfax leaps into battle as the music crescendos is simply breathtakingly beautiful and gives me goosebumps every time I think about it. And yes the Lorien Elves do no appear in the book as they were occupied in Lorien defending their own lands, PJ wanted to show, I think, that all of Middle Earth's habitants were involved in its defense and he could not show the Wars in the North that were happening concurrently. (THAT would make a fantastic stand-alone film that I would most definitely go to see!!) Had PJ not filmed the changed Helm's Deep sequence so masterfully perhaps the character changes would have stood out as huge problems but he nailed it. It is masterfully done!
OMG perfect timing I was just looking for this. Thank you so much.
The book version is my favorite because it gives us my favorite quote "Eomer turned: 'I thank you, Gimli son of Gloin!' he said. 'I did not know that you were with us in this sortie. But oft the unbidden guest proves the best company.' " Not only is this a super dope moment in the books and even though we get the "don't tell the elf" line, the same scene in the movie loses some of its punch for me because Eomer is not there to defend the postern with them and joke with Gimlim but the unbidden guest part is so perfect and one of my favorite lines in all of Tolkien.
the movie depiction is absolutely epic, with some proper OMG moments. The way the outer wall is destroyed, and the wide shots with the ladders was using the medium of film to its advantage in a devastating way.
Dropping the 'Scouring of the Shire' from the movie is my biggest gripe with the movie. This actually the true culmination of the story.
It is?? Not the final destruction of the One Ring? Okay. Not.
It is difficult to pick a favorite version when each holds its place in its own venue. I thoroughly enjoyed the books and I particularly preferred the idea that the King would lead and army to divert an enemy from the people -- elderly, women, and children -- in order to keep them safe. I agree that the wisdom of the King is tarnished by the movie version, but I can also see the reasons behind the movie-folks reasons for the change. There is a big difference between holding the attention of a reader of a book and enticing them to invest in the next book in the trilogy, and holding the attention and interest of a movie-goer and enticing them to invest in the sequel. Comparing the way a story is presented in a book as opposed to how it is presented in a movie is much like comparing apples and oranges -- two different venues, two different audiences; thus most often two different opinions.
For what it's worth, I don't even 'get' fantasy, yet I find myself here night upon night, coming back again to this channel. I don't even understand half of it, but it's soothing & righteous, so I've allowed it in my life -- thanks.
Tolkien's fantasy reads like actual history. Maybe that is part of the appeal.
I prefer the book version for 2 main reasons:
The elf army should not have been involved, and the Hourns and Ents were key and should have played a big role in the film.
Agreed. It was a tragedy how the Ents & Hourns were portrayed. The Elves showing up all the way from Rivendell to help defend Helm's Deep made no sense
And the elf who led them in the movie (Haldir) was not from Rivendell, he was from Lorien, and was busy defending Lorien from attack from Dol Goldie.
Goldur not Goldie, sorry for error.
Your reasons for preferring the book is that the film isn’t the exact same as the book😂
they were there, in the movie, just have to watch the extended edition to see them
Good analysis! The way you point out how Theoden is diminished remind me that I thought that about Frodo. The fact that Jackson remove the Tom Bombadil's chapter has some good reasons behind, but the audience does not see the way Frodo takes care of his friends and stand up as the leader of the hobbits showing courage and will (even if Bombadil rescue them). The remaining of the movie Frodo looks like an agonizing hobbit being carried around, because we don´t understand why the other hobbits and some characters look up at him. It would be great to known your opinion about the portrait of Frodo from book to movies.
Don't forget the Barrow Wights were cut out of the movie too and Frodo had a much more important role in saving everyone at that time even though Tom Bombadil actually saved everyone.
@@Enerdhil exactly... I read the books in Spanish, so several characters and places names are different, but I refer precisely to the Barrow Wights events.
im tied on which version, there both pretty good in different ways. I would love to see a comparison between what really happened at Dol guldur please!! awesome channel and content guys keep it up.x
I'd like to see a video about the difference of Aragorn. He has a very different demeanor in the books. He feels very differently about his lineage and destiny to be king. He also has (at times) a level or arrogance about his power. Another big difference is he carries anduril the entire story. There are lots of other differences as well. I'd love to see a video
I love when he nearly fights the Edoras guards himself and gandalfs laughs it off to save them.
‘Crazy old men and their love of their swords’
Yeah. He doesn't doubt himself at all. He is impatient to get the sword and become king so he can wed Arwen
I really enjoyed this video. I now realize that reading this series of books is my next project. You have sparked my interest.
I like how Jackson didn’t ruin things with his changes. They work. It kind of bothered me how they created a female elf in the Hobbit that wasn’t in the book. It’s one thing to change scenes. It’s another to completely add a new character not in the lore. The extended editions of the trilogy is definitely the way to go.
I didn't mind Tariel as a character, but the whole love story with her and Kili (or was it Fili?) was so monumentally STUPID, even Evangeline Lilly has openly expressed her disgust towards it. My only other issues with her and Legolas was they had way too much screen time. It would make sense for Legolas to have a cameo, as he is Thranduil's son. I assume he's not mentioned in the book, because Tolkien probably hadn't created him yet in 1937. But it should have been a cameo, like when they ambush the dwarves in Mirkwood, and left at that. Plus Legolas and Tariel are so overpowered, there's never any tension when they're fighting the orcs. I did see a fan edit that cuts the bloated 8 1/2 hour Hobbit trilogy and streamlines to a more manageable 3 hours, 45 minutes, making it far more enjoyable, and more in line with the book.
They actuslly shot Arwen fighting at Helms deep but edited it out, you can see this in the behind the scenes documentaries from the extended editions.
@@legionarybooks13 In the last two Hobbit movies, Jackson was clearly trying to replicate Aragorn and Arwen's love story from LOTR. Two problems with that: 1. the love story isn't in the book so it's not going to feel organic, natural, or important to the story because it literally can't be. 2. He made it into a love triangle which was even more unnecessary.
I'll defend adding Legolas to the movies. I've read that Tolkien wanted to make another edition of The Hobbit where he'd retroactively go back and add Legolas in certain parts but died before he could ever write it. I'll fully agree with you that Legolas being a video game character was really stupid haha.
Lurtz was added to the fellowship of the ring. Misogyny is un befitting for middle earth.
@@spencerkindra8822, I didn't know that about Tolkien wanting to go back and add him in. I love the charcter, both in book and film, and think Orlando Bloom played it perfectly. But yeah, he was too "videogame-ish" even in the LOTR films. Doing his Super Mario impression in the Hobbit just left me groaning.
The love triangle was also really stupid because it stemmed from a really lame dick joke. Plus, elves and dwarves HATED each other. That's why Legolas and Gimli's friendship was so special. Same as was when Galadriel gave Gimli three strands of her hair; something she denied her creepy uncle, Feanor, a few thousand years earlier!
That Hobbit movie burn around 9:50 nearly slayed me, I'm laughing so hard. I love the movie Helm's Deep sequence, it was very epic, but I do miss how much Eomer we get in the books and how he works so well with Aragorn. We don't really get that in the movies. Am I misremembering, I thought Edoras got attacked by wargs during the day sometime before this battle? Anyway, great video, thank you!
In the book Aragorns kinfolk, rangers of the north come to the aid of rohan. Not many, but every bit of help is help indeed.
Actually the Rangers of the north didn't arrive until after the Battle of Helm's Deep
As much as I like the films and most of the changes, I didn't care much for the elves appearing in it. I prefer the book.
Loved the video and would be very interested to see a comparison of the events in the mines of morea in the books and the film. Again love the vids keep up the good work!
Fun fact: Gamling roughly translates to "old man" in Swedish! 👍
The SHADE towards the Hobbit movies 🤣🤣🤣🤣I LOVE YOU GUYS
Yes!
Movie version by default as I haven't read the books yet. From what this video has shown me though I do like the changes they made for the movie, as you said too many characters and our attention spans are only so big for a movie. Eomers charge with Gandalf I thought was brilliant and dare I say a bit emotional, Gandalf says "Theodin king stands alone..." and Eomer just rocking up and saying "Not alone" just gives me chills every time.
I agree that changing the last final charge from Theodins idea to Aragorn does kind of make him seem weaker however in the broader context, the movie is showing that his people are about to be wiped out and this battle has everything on the line so it's easier to give in to despair. Also this is the story of Aragorn and his rise to take his rightful place as high king, so he has to look stronger than any other man because he's our guy and he inspires everyone else, he manages to take Theodins mind from "I'm about to die and my people in ruin" to "LEEEEEROYYY JENKINS!!!".
So I like the movie more by default, once I read the book I may change my mind.
id like to hear about the defense of osgiliath comparison. apparently the fighting prowess of the men of gondor is shown to be more then what we see in the films.
I went to go look at your previous channe a week backl and I actually was sad when i couldnt find the videos. Awesome to have found the new channel
Book version. The idea of Lothlorien sending a battalion of elven archers is just unbelievable. Elves did not meddle in human affairs, unless it affected all peoples. Also, at this point, Lothlorien was under attack by orcs out of Mirkwood. So, pretty dumb. The rest of it is more possible, and a bit closer to actual history of the war of the rings, other than charactor studies. Both Lothlorien south of Mirkwood and the Realm of the Woodland Elves (Legolas's people) were fighting the war on a second front from Mirkwood and Dol Goldur. I'd love to see a movie about those second fronts (as well as the Dwarves and humans fighting at and around Dale) The events leading up to the Battle Under the Trees, what happened just before and after Legolas is sent to Rivendell.(Golem escaping) The tactics of the woodland elves fighting in their very well known (to them) forest while it's burning all around them would be fasinating. Also, what's happening in Lothlorien with there having been several feints and battles with Galadriel expending what's left of her powers would be most interesting. And yeah, would really like seeing the Dwarves of Eribor fight alongside the men of Dale. The death of King Dain and the sacking of Dale and an eventual win for the Dwarves and human's combined would be incredible. Should have been a whole 'nother book, IMHO
I'm not necessarily critical of Peter Jackson choosing to leave out certain characters from the book. Eomer takes the place of Elfhelm (an interesting but not really necessary character), and the charge on horseback is much more thematic and epic. Jackson also adds a greater degree of tension between the overly cautious Theoden and the more heroic Aragorn. But it also makes Theoden's final ride in the Battle of the Pelanor fields feel like more of a character a - from feeble man to proud warrior
Movie battle. I'd like to see any video you want to do about Middle Earth. You do such an excellent job!
Do Gimli book Vs film. He is a valued member of the team in the book and a comic relief in the films.
It was a shame the way the Dwarves are portrayed in these films
@@freebirdallen very true and why I can't tolerate the Hobbit films.
While reading it , i got goosebumps when one of the soldiers scream " Anduril goes to war "
Great comparisons. I'll always love the movie scenes but I can't wait to read it for myself in the books. In keeping with Rohan I'd like to see more of Eomer, and also the differences with the army of the dead from book and film.
I like both versions of the battle of helm deeps. It was epic.
Regardless of its small page count Helms Deep sure seemed like a major climax in the trilogy. As s little kid it takes a long long time to get to Minas Tirith and this battle fills your thoughts during that slow crawl.
Book version whit Edoras empty and wargs atack ,17:35 Saruman s Army*,great video like always.
God, I forgot how much I love all the old artwork, pre-Jackson. I used to hang out in bookstores for hours perusing the fantasy and gaming sections. Full of tremendous imagery. Lit my mind on fire in the best way.
Yeah, but a lot of the details in that imagery is just wrong. They often get the armor, weapons and other details so wrong you wonder if they even read the books.
The film version wouldn't have worked as a book and the book version wouldn't have worked as a film. The film version of Theodan made for more of a redemption story for the Third film, making his part more relevant. The introduction of elves also gives the film a chance to explore the influence of Elrond and Galadriel on Middle Earth which otherwise would have been completely omitted
I agree. His redemption and charge of the Return of the King is epic and one the best cinematic events in history. I really applaud Jackson for giving his character that awesome scene. I cry thinking about it every time.
The whole story of the books was that it was MEN'S time to rule, and the influence of the elves was fading. They wouldn't have had much influence left, especially with their whole leaving the continent AND fighting a war in Lorien.
I never quite got into the Lord of the Rings books as a kid however watching your channel makes me not only want to read them but any other book that gives me pieces of Lord of the Rings lore it's such a fascinating world and Sowell develops like Star Wars it's really enjoyable
Two topics: the radical transformation of Farmir's character in the movies (which I do not like: I love the movies in general, but find myself skipping the parts with Faramir when watching them on DVD, such is my distaste for the film Faramir); the omitting the Scouring of the Shire (here I can see both sides, pro and con).
This is one of the times where the movie does it better. I like the idea of Eomer having his moment, riding down the mountain with Gandalf. I like Theoden being a “lesser king” but still doing what is necessary and all he can do until the very end.
Sry for being so late...never knew your AMAZING channel existed. Saw one video and you have my sub. Keep on being great🎉🎉🎉🥳🥳🥳🥳
This is one of the few moments I have to give to the movie version. I still remember sitting on the edge of my seat in the theater memorized by the visual of the battle
You are awesome dude keep it up. I love your videos
True story: The original gate was built SO well that the ram did nothing. A perfect example of how set people, with enough time and materials, can build anything!
Great vid. I love the book and film but prefer the film here - I love all the extra stakes and “win here or cease to exist” tension in the film, the weakness of the Rohirrim which the book does hint at, and Theoden’s feeling of being an impotent lesser King which is so important to his later decision to ride to Gondor and the amazing line from the book and film about him going to his fathers’ in whose might company he is no longer ashamed.
Also love the uniform ordered terrifying ranks of Uruk hai, which would have been diminished with lots of orcs and wild men. Has the industrialised theme to their army which I agree works well for Saruman
I'd like to see a video on all the deeds and words attributed to different characters between the book and the films. There's what seems to me a deliberate change in focus which glorifies certain characters at the expense of others. I'd also like to know your opinion of Denethor as portrayed in both film and book as it is my feeling that he is dealt with very poorly in the film adaptation, wereas he is a complex and tragic character in the book and another perspective would be interesting.
Hi! New subscriber here, loving the channel, thanks so much for the excellent content! As for Book vs. Film, I'm a bit torn. Mostly I prefer the books to the films but when it comes to the battles the films do such an amazing job with the fight sequences and spectacle of it all that I can tolerate the loads of changes made. The elves showing up led by Haldir is the only exception to this as it makes us wonder why the elves aren't helping more. As you say, in the books, the elves of Loth Lorien and even Murkwood are busy with their own fights. This point is understated in the films and makes the elves seem uncaring of the plight of men and Haldir's small host seems somewhat paltry. Like the elves can't be bothered to send more or something rather than being embroiled in battle for their own homes. As for the character switches, I kinda like that in the film. Eomer is one of my favorite characters and I like his role in the films. For the LotR trilogy, I love the events in the films and the book's events to mingle in my mind. (The Hobbit? That's a different story.) I would love more of these comparisons, perhaps the Hobbits journey from the Shire to Bree could be next? Loads of differences there.
And a special thank you for the Tauriel slight, lol! What was Peter Jackson up to with that?? What, did the Lost island send Kate to Middle Earth to be a love interest for Kili? Maybe the lost island is actually Numenor, lol! Anyway sorry to ramble, keep the great content coming! Cheers!
Love your work! Hope you get to 10,000 likes :)
Love your guy's content!
Sorry I didnt even realize I wasnt subbed. I am now. Thanks for the great content
I'd like to see differnce about Legolas from books and Legolas from movies. Also great video about one of the best battles on Tv history.
The scouring of the shire was one of my bigger disappointments in the movie, but I understand that time is an issue.
That was one of my favorite parts in the last book. I was disappointed we didn't get to see it in the movie but I understood the timing issue.
@@AudraT Could have been another entire movie. The four returning Hobbits plus some new charactors, and some old charactors (from the book) like Tom Cotton, Farmer Maggot and Rosie revisited and expanded. It would be a bit difficult to bring in the now powerless Saruman, but could be worked in and around, since the non extended version of the movie didn't show his death. Could be made long enough with some of the events of the 4 years before Frodo leaves for the Havens, too.
For me that was very boring moment in books and Im happy that it was cut from movies
Completely anticlimactic for a movie, the final boss was already beaten
I really enjoy this channel and you videos
Thanks 😊
Book helms deep. Movie is still epic but I wish they would have made it longer. Love this channel!
Make a video about the differences between The movie and book versions of not Just the Battle of Minas Tirith but the others leading up to It, like the siege and battle of Osgiliath that had been going on for so long to their attack on the Pelennor Fields before the Rohirrim did it!
I think not having the women & children go to Dunharrow in the film also takes a little bit away from Eowyn's character and capabilities as a leader. She was *chosen* by the people to lead them to Dunharrow when Theoden had intended to pick one of his men. On the other hand, she barely appears in "The Two Towers", so I guess they needed more for her to do and to more strongly establish the desire she had for Aragorn.
It had been about two years since I last read the books when this movie came out but ,some of the differences I noticed most were the ones at helms deep. There are lots of reasons why elves didn't show up. And Theoden was healed by Galdalf and was a big hero and led the charge through the gate.
The book version for me primarily because of something you mentioned. I like the idea of the men of Rohan saving themselves instead of relying on help from the Elves. But, I did enjoy both.
Aaaaand subscribed 👍
Love the fact you used Lotro art to illustrate some stuff.
I know there difference, I do believe that the difference are due to different format. To me they are both great for their format!
I think a lot of the creative decisions taken by Jackson and Walsh in the original trilogy all had intent and purpose behind them. Many nods to other characters and moments throughout the books.
I think that the elves arriving at helms deep to support Aragorn is a nod to the sons of Elrond who accompanied him along the paths of dead and the subsuming battles
For another comparison video, how about Dernhelm? I LOVED the way the book hides Eowyn until her glorious moment of triumph. It's one of my favorite literary moments in any book. I was generally very happy with the LotR movies, but this one thing I would have changed.
I miss the wild men. That is one of my favorite parts of the book.
Another great video. Any interest in doing a video covering the different video games or the old animated movies?
The film version was much bigger in scale than the book version, and had many unnecessary changes & additions (no Eomer, Elves from Lorien, the entire population of Edoras being there, the Warg attack, Aragorn falling off the cliff, etc). The book version took up less than a single chapter and was purely a military excursion while the women & children went to Dunharrow. Book version was quick and to the point, leading to the much more important visit to Isengard & parley with Saruman (which was inexplicably moved to the third movie and mostly removed from the theatrical version).
And can someone please explain to filmmakers that someone yelling "FIRE!" to archers was not something done before the use of firearms?
I've been playing the Lord of the Rings Online recently, and it's story is based more on the books, rather than the movies. I got my character up to the battle of Helm's Deep, and while preparing, i was sent to talk to Legolas, and he makes a reference to (or takes a jab at) the movie version of the battle, saying how magnificent it would be if the elves could be there, although they were too far away to help. Just an interesting thing i found that relates to the video a bit.
This scene is perhaps the biggest deviation from the book of all three movies. Jackson really took some liberties with the story.
The book vrs makes more sense, but the movie vrs is objectively more epic
Movie helms deep takes it for me. Enjoy it way more than the Book. Although I appreciate what the book does for characters, and how much more detailed it was. The spectacle of the huge on screen battle, mm mm mm
Great analysis, 1 subscriber added
This is possibly the only scene I prefer in the films; not plot wise, but just through raw feeling and emotion. It's unforgettably directed.
Rohan has no elves. Rohan needs no elves.
I definitely prefer the book battle because it is the thoughts of Tolkien, but it is amazing to see such a detailed, large-scale battle in script and action.
Re-reading lotr right now, so I'm eating these videos up!
Well done Sir.
I personally prefer the movie version. Having the entire population shored up inside gives the battle an extra sense of purpose and desperation. And having the elves enter the battle, bringing the two races, one to the aid of the other is extremely touching.
Whether in the battle of helm's deep or in the rest of the movies in general, its a shame how underutilized gimli is as a character in those key scenes, compated to the books
"We loosed every arrow that we had, and filled the Dike with Orcs. But it will not halt them long. Already they are scaling the bank at many points, thick as marching ants. But we have taught them not to carry torches." one of my favorite lines from the books.
More video- The battles in the Last Alliance.
There are more in the book I like then in the movie.
One Theodin’s character I agree with you. I liked that in the book he intends to take soldiers to fight instead of escaping to Helms Deep.
Two Eromir going with them instead of Gandalf finding him.
Third The Elves were ok, though it would have shown Rohan to be stronger fighting for themselves.
Peter Jackson did a good job, though I would have had either Gandalf get more Rohiran to come or get the elves. Still it’s hard to make 13 pages into 10% of a movie.
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They should have included the Dundlanders in the movie and made them the defeat the Rohirim. The Dundlanders are a noble people with their clubs, grunting and wild ways.
"Gamling" in Swedish is literally a word for "old person" with a kind of negative clang. So as an early teen when I read the Swedish version of The Lord of the Rings I thought it was a mean nickname for one of the generals 😅 it wasn't until I saw the films I realised it was his actual name
I really appreciate this type of video, compare and contrast. That said, I loved the movies. I knew there were differences, but the spirit of the books was there, so easily forgiven. Unlike the elf/dwarf romance in The Hobbit, that was so annoying.
It has been far too long since I have read the books to make a more fair or objective decision. However the movie depiction is visually stunning and to me it still stands as one of the greatest onscreen battles in cinematic history.
The one thing that was a bit unnecessary to me was the inclusion of the Elves. For one, where did they come from and who sent for them that a massive task force was marshalled and arrived in time before the Uruk army did?
For another the use of the Elves also robs Men from being the deserved stewards of Middle-Earth and capable of standing alone against evil, without the aid of immortals Elves (who were already fleeing at this time).
I think a rekindling of the Last Alliance should have been reserved for the March on the Black Gate, as Men and Elves had done during the Second Age.
Book is much better in my opinion, although the movie version is pretty good too. I would love to see a video about the elves in Helm's Deep! I would also love to see comparisons for characters, specifically Gimli, Elrond, and Faramir!
Literally the only problem I had was the Elves showing up. I would have liked it better if it was all Rohan. I really feel like it kinda stepped on their moment. But they had a great moment at Pellenor Fields so it's all good.
I enjoy them all, but the 1978 version of Lord the Rings depiction of the battle is by far the best. The mood of that scene mesmerized me as a child and led to numerous times of me recreating the battle in my imagination.
I'l admit i've not read the book, but from what i'm hearing here and the other videos on this channel, i think i might prefer the book variant of the battle.
Movie Helm's Deep has really good pacing
I like the movie version because of the visuals. The elves showing up was “meh” and didn’t make sense, and I hated the final charge down the hill. Would have been a waste of fine cavalry. Overall, still the highlight battle of all the movies for me.
Watched the movies some five times, my fav movie is the 2 towers, now im reading the books, and reading the book and seeing how different it is from the movie is like reading a totally new stories but with some visual help in the imagination.
I still think that the movies are good, but the books is ofc more detailed and is awesome too.