I think they did the tension and the complexity of this relationship really well both in the writing and the acting and I think Francois plays it well because you can see in 3x04 that he's devastated and guilty but that the thought or sight of Lucrezia with another man drives him crazy and that he'll do anything for her and she only feels truly loved by him. The dynamics are super uncomfortable but that's why it's so great to watch.
Neal Jordan did an amazing Job, creating a story line for the incest because he didn't make it totally uncomfortable;he made it feel natural especially when it comes to the very complicated dynamic of the Borgia family ... Two children forever pawns on their fathers chess board,used for his own political gain, ambition and power. Both trying desperately to find within this world of corruption and power, a place of belonging.A safe place to just be themselves .They find that within each other
We need resolution! We need season 4. I would understand canceling the show if it had come to a natural end or if the quality had gone downhill, but neither has happened. All of the actors still seem very dedicated to it, and Neil Jordan at least wanted a 2 hour movie. There is currently a petition to bring back season 4 and a facebook campaign called "Bring Back the Borgias"
I ship them really hard and I know it's wrong because they're siblings but it's just that Francois and Holly have an amazing chemistry... I just can't help myself. Love the show and Lucrezia/Cesare♥
I've been rooting for them since the 1st episode of season 1!!! The second they appeared together on screen sparks just flew!! FIREWORKS EVERYWHERE!!! And there was never a dull moment with them >w< i was so happy when cesare finally made the move when lucrezia confronted him about him leaving for france. So so sooooo happy. I kept repeating that scene xDDD
I don't support incest whatsoever but them together...I...when I've seen them together I've always been crying a bit bcs their love is so special, beautiful. And when they had...well, you know...I couldn't stop cry x) because it was so romantic
People who say that it was wrong/sick/etc. can't put themselves in the time period. Incest happened a lot before modern times (and even happens now, as the dark underbelly of the internet can show you...there are incest fetish sites everywhere. It seems to be a dark part of human nature, the "forbidden"). Incest is Biblical, even (as Lot's Daughters can tell you). People will find their pleasures where they can or will, and the show established that their version of Cesare and Lucrezia could find no greater love with others than they could between themselves. People can ship them if they like, there's nothing wrong with it (especially when there's actual love involved, and not force), and if you cast judgment on them then cast judgment on humanity itself. Fathers rape daughters every day (and sometimes daughters willingly put themselves to their fathers/uncles/etc.), brothers and sisters play with each other every day...just because some people don't want to admit that humanity has a dark side doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
+remysglow Incest happened indeed a lot in history and it is described in the Bible. that doesn't mean it is Biblical because the Bible makes it quite clear that it's forbidden. That of course doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Way back in times of the beginning of mankind (Adam and Eve and Noah) it wasn't so much of a problem because the gene-pool was still so pure that mutations weren't a big thing, except for maybe typical features that started to develop (for example Asian eye features). But nothing un-healthy. Later on, gene-pools became more specific and that is why the Israeli people for instance, at the time were forbidden to enter certain relationships, among themselves but also among "foreigners". But you don't see it much in other cultures up to certain points. Later in the Middle Ages it was mostly common for rich people to marry into their own family, but never closer than a cousin, preferably a few times removed. But the normal/poor folk were mixed more. I live next to a small village were everyone seems to be related to each other (I'm very happy both my parents aren't even remotely from there) and local people still marry each other. It is definitely noticeable that a lot of children have some sort of problem/defect... But indeed things like these have been happening for ages. I do think people should be careful with this sort of thing, but you can't stop love. And when they are all fine with it, why not. I'll just do some research before dipping into any gene-pool...
Ew. Incest is one of the only socially rejected practices that nature itself actively and loudly protests against. The kids usually end up disabled or deformed. They did a really good job of making it look like a dark, sinister fairytale that we were all rooting for, and we can all enjoy it as such, but in reality, incest should NEVER happen. Seriously. Not ever
At the time when religion was established, incest was extremely looked down upon. It happens till now but it’s not okay or normal in any way. There are serious psychological problems in people’s lives for people to do that.
@@sheerink9391 many of the articles I’ve read seem to suggest that Cesare and Lucrezia were somewhat thrown together by circumstances- it’s definitely unhealthy and dangerous physically but I think they were overwhelmed by circumstances and maybe did get way too close. Interestingly, ‘The Borgias’ doesn’t touch upon the possibility of incest between father and daughter. This comes up more frequently than the suggestion of an intimate relationship between Cesare and Lucrezia. Either way, Lucrezia was pushed from pillar to post. Intelligent and beautiful, a potent combination. She was used as a political pawn more than once, like many noblewomen, not only in Europe but elsewhere.
It's simply called (from what I've found) Lucrezia and Cesare's theme. Just type it into the search and you'll be able to find it. It's composed by the same guy that does ALL the Borgia music (:
First, it´s fiction. Second, you find disturbing a consensual loving relationship between two adults but not all the violence and murder going on in this and so many other shows? LOL. Some people must sort out their scale of values. Either way, chill out it´s a tv show! If you don´t enjoy it, the remote has an on/off button, you know?
Well, in one hand it been implied in the history books about their incestuous relationship so its really not all that surprising. I thought most people who are watching the Borgias know about the history behind the family already so they're watching it play out.
I only knew superficial details ove the scandalous Pope and his family. That is changing with time. I wonder if this msg will even get to whoever you are all the messages on here are 9 or 8 years old lol 😂
Ok, I get that this can seem 'pretty sick' but I think what people need to realize is that this plot hasn't risen from fairy dust. It is a well known historical fact that Lucrezia and Cesare Borgia were in an incestuous relationship and this show is based on a The Borgia family. it's coming from facts. Also you're saying that it is sick but yet you're all up for blood and gore.
It might have been a rumor to discredit the family. It was also said that Lucrezia was in an incestuous relationship with his father, not just his brother. I mean, in fiction i totally ship L/C. But who knows what happened in real life
No idea, but it's a repeated track that plays during the tense Cesare/Lucrezia moment's...much different than "Cesare and Lucrezia's Theme" that is on the soundtrack. :/
I think people just see the actors have really good chemistry and want them to make out and do stuff, so they're defending incest to make it happen. Let's see how many would ever think about banging their close relative. They would throw up a little
incest was actually very common back in ancient times, much more common than it is now, and there's a lot of incest featured in many cultural mythologies, and yet I don't see you complaining about that.
Also in this context it is fantasy. Things that turn us on as a matter of fantasy aren't necessarily desired in reality. The biggest sex organ in the body is the brain. They have always been close. Life in that environment intensified those feelings, as they can only trust & count on eachother. Her husband in season three, is a boy who never seems to become a man, stand up for her, or her child. She rescues them, when they are being held by his family.
François truly does make Cesare into a dark prince.
I think they did the tension and the complexity of this relationship really well both in the writing and the acting and I think Francois plays it well because you can see in 3x04 that he's devastated and guilty but that the thought or sight of Lucrezia with another man drives him crazy and that he'll do anything for her and she only feels truly loved by him. The dynamics are super uncomfortable but that's why it's so great to watch.
Too bad they never made a fourth season
I adore this episode, it was so great. And the chemistry between these two actors is incredible. Damn, I miss that show...
Is so well written than the iconic love of Cesare and Lucrezia plays now in the league of Romeo & Juliet, and Isolde + Tristan
Their chemistry is off the charts! I love these two madly! :)
2021 and I'm still here mad because they canceled this
I just watched it for the first time. And I am mad as well.
Neal Jordan did an amazing Job, creating a story line for the incest because he didn't make it totally uncomfortable;he made it feel natural especially when it comes to the very complicated dynamic of the Borgia family ... Two children forever pawns on their fathers chess board,used for his own political gain, ambition and power. Both trying desperately to find within this world of corruption and power, a place of belonging.A safe place to just be themselves .They find that within each other
You're sick.
I wouldn't be surprised if you told me you married your first cousin or had a thing for each other in youth lol all jokes mate
what made this strange couple work for me was the crazy chemistry the actors had going on, not easy to achieve
I don't care what people say but I love love and what is between Cesare and Lucrezia is the purest of love so I'll ship it til the end, bye.
Sameee
Girl 🙅🏽♀️🤢🤢🤢🥴
aint you a slattern then....
We need resolution! We need season 4. I would understand canceling the show if it had come to a natural end or if the quality had gone downhill, but neither has happened. All of the actors still seem very dedicated to it, and Neil Jordan at least wanted a 2 hour movie. There is currently a petition to bring back season 4 and a facebook campaign called "Bring Back the Borgias"
I'm not a Borgia but I love Cesare Borgia
I ship them really hard and I know it's wrong because they're siblings but it's just that Francois and Holly have an amazing chemistry... I just can't help myself. Love the show and Lucrezia/Cesare♥
I've been rooting for them since the 1st episode of season 1!!! The second they appeared together on screen sparks just flew!! FIREWORKS EVERYWHERE!!! And there was never a dull moment with them >w< i was so happy when cesare finally made the move when lucrezia confronted him about him leaving for france. So so sooooo happy. I kept repeating that scene xDDD
you will be my husband tonight...so happy it finally happened....love these two ..such great acting on both their parts..love that Francois.....
He gets it! I love Francois even more now! Don't tear them apart Neil!
Bring The Borgias back
I don't support incest whatsoever but them together...I...when I've seen them together I've always been crying a bit bcs their love is so special, beautiful. And when they had...well, you know...I couldn't stop cry x) because it was so romantic
who can't blame them for wanting to play sexual connection, they are both so gorgeous, kekeke. i bet there was something more than just an acting.
anyone else get the feeling that the actor who plays Cesare (no idea how to spell his name dont even know how to pronounce it correctly) ships them?
Everyone shipped them. Everyone.
People who say that it was wrong/sick/etc. can't put themselves in the time period. Incest happened a lot before modern times (and even happens now, as the dark underbelly of the internet can show you...there are incest fetish sites everywhere. It seems to be a dark part of human nature, the "forbidden"). Incest is Biblical, even (as Lot's Daughters can tell you). People will find their pleasures where they can or will, and the show established that their version of Cesare and Lucrezia could find no greater love with others than they could between themselves.
People can ship them if they like, there's nothing wrong with it (especially when there's actual love involved, and not force), and if you cast judgment on them then cast judgment on humanity itself. Fathers rape daughters every day (and sometimes daughters willingly put themselves to their fathers/uncles/etc.), brothers and sisters play with each other every day...just because some people don't want to admit that humanity has a dark side doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
+remysglow Incest happened indeed a lot in history and it is described in the Bible. that doesn't mean it is Biblical because the Bible makes it quite clear that it's forbidden. That of course doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
Way back in times of the beginning of mankind (Adam and Eve and Noah) it wasn't so much of a problem because the gene-pool was still so pure that mutations weren't a big thing, except for maybe typical features that started to develop (for example Asian eye features). But nothing un-healthy.
Later on, gene-pools became more specific and that is why the Israeli people for instance, at the time were forbidden to enter certain relationships, among themselves but also among "foreigners". But you don't see it much in other cultures up to certain points.
Later in the Middle Ages it was mostly common for rich people to marry into their own family, but never closer than a cousin, preferably a few times removed. But the normal/poor folk were mixed more.
I live next to a small village were everyone seems to be related to each other (I'm very happy both my parents aren't even remotely from there) and local people still marry each other. It is definitely noticeable that a lot of children have some sort of problem/defect...
But indeed things like these have been happening for ages. I do think people should be careful with this sort of thing, but you can't stop love. And when they are all fine with it, why not. I'll just do some research before dipping into any gene-pool...
+remysglow Succinct and well stated👏👏👏👏
Ew. Incest is one of the only socially rejected practices that nature itself actively and loudly protests against. The kids usually end up disabled or deformed. They did a really good job of making it look like a dark, sinister fairytale that we were all rooting for, and we can all enjoy it as such, but in reality, incest should NEVER happen. Seriously. Not ever
At the time when religion was established, incest was extremely looked down upon. It happens till now but it’s not okay or normal in any way. There are serious psychological problems in people’s lives for people to do that.
@@sheerink9391 many of the articles I’ve read seem to suggest that Cesare and Lucrezia were somewhat thrown together by circumstances- it’s definitely unhealthy and dangerous physically but I think they were overwhelmed by circumstances and maybe did get way too close. Interestingly, ‘The Borgias’ doesn’t touch upon the possibility of incest between father and daughter. This comes up more frequently than the suggestion of an intimate relationship between Cesare and Lucrezia.
Either way, Lucrezia was pushed from pillar to post. Intelligent and beautiful, a potent combination. She was used as a political pawn more than once, like many noblewomen, not only in Europe but elsewhere.
You should, it's amazing!
It's simply called (from what I've found) Lucrezia and Cesare's theme. Just type it into the search and you'll be able to find it. It's composed by the same guy that does ALL the Borgia music (:
First, it´s fiction. Second, you find disturbing a consensual loving relationship between two adults but not all the violence and murder going on in this and so many other shows? LOL. Some people must sort out their scale of values. Either way, chill out it´s a tv show! If you don´t enjoy it, the remote has an on/off button, you know?
Lucrezia and cesare ! My favorite actors !
😍😍😍😍
Well, in one hand it been implied in the history books about their incestuous relationship so its really not all that surprising. I thought most people who are watching the Borgias know about the history behind the family already so they're watching it play out.
I only knew superficial details ove the scandalous Pope and his family. That is changing with time. I wonder if this msg will even get to whoever you are all the messages on here are 9 or 8 years old lol 😂
the scene at 1:52..what episode is that from? someone please tell me
Soundtracks in Episode?
You could not be more right.
whats the music called when Lucrezia and cesares love theme arises????
Dark Prince and Cantarella - it's not on youtube. you have to download the mp3 from google or some other site/torrent
Their chemistry was so extremely tangible. Some of it had to be real.
such a wonderful tv series...damn the vatican who stopped this show!
Ok, I get that this can seem 'pretty sick' but I think what people need to realize is that this plot hasn't risen from fairy dust. It is a well known historical fact that Lucrezia and Cesare Borgia were in an incestuous relationship and this show is based on a The Borgia family. it's coming from facts. Also you're saying that it is sick but yet you're all up for blood and gore.
It might have been a rumor to discredit the family. It was also said that Lucrezia was in an incestuous relationship with his father, not just his brother. I mean, in fiction i totally ship L/C. But who knows what happened in real life
me too
😍😍😍😍😍
Whats the name of the track when they make love??
No idea, but it's a repeated track that plays during the tense Cesare/Lucrezia moment's...much different than "Cesare and Lucrezia's Theme" that is on the soundtrack. :/
Yeah, that's true. Any idea where I can get a list of tracks from the soundtrack of s3? I've been searching for this for ages but to no avail :(
Ugh, I've been looking for it forever and cannot find this theme. I really wish they had it out somewhere; I'm in love with it.
Dark Prince and Cantarella
Religion is abomination against mankind. B.t.w one of the best shows I had ever seen in my life.
Looks like good series but i really don't watch it.
So I just started binge watching this on Netflix and I can't believe yall really in these comments defending incest. I am....disgusted.
I think people just see the actors have really good chemistry and want them to make out and do stuff, so they're defending incest to make it happen. Let's see how many would ever think about banging their close relative. They would throw up a little
That's fine because prudes disgust me too.
It’s the actors....
this's so fucking sick, what the hell is happening with the world?
incest was actually very common back in ancient times, much more common than it is now, and there's a lot of incest featured in many cultural mythologies, and yet I don't see you complaining about that.
Also in this context it is fantasy. Things that turn us on as a matter of fantasy aren't necessarily desired in reality. The biggest sex organ in the body is the brain. They have always been close. Life in that environment intensified those feelings, as they can only trust & count on eachother. Her husband in season three, is a boy who never seems to become a man, stand up for her, or her child. She rescues them, when they are being held by his family.