I wish I could make videos at the quality of your work. I'll keep pushing forwards. Wishing you ongoing success, and the ability to relax sometimes, and brainstorm / think outside of the box to create new videos!
We've made it kind of a band ritual at this point to take the $25 cheque we get from Spotify every 3 to 6 months, deposit it, withdraw it in cash, and use it to get McDonalds.
Yes! This is the kind of content that made me fall in love with PRMBA back in the day. Business-oriented but through the prism of popular music. Informative, funny and challenging. I know the “Wikipedia” vids get the most views but I’d love to see more of these types sprinkled throughout
I remember when Spotify first came out I was amazed that I could stream all of that music, legally, for free. I think if they had started with a monthly tier of $30 or even $40 a ton of people would have signed up because we were used to having to pay for either CDs or iTunes to get music legally. But once they introduced this free model, everyone got used to the idea that music should be free. It's hard to get people to start paying for things that used to be free.
We all have to start being aware that the internet is NOT FREE, and if something is free, it's probably killing a group of people. In this case musicians. We ALL have to go back to buying CD's again, to get things back on track, and get corporates bowing their knees. And if they do, we are going to kick them once more with the final hit. We love rock/metal/punk music and our scene, and we got to fight for it to stay alive and make it big again like in the '80 urly '90. Big labels, yes there is no way around them, and they actualy do stuff for the artist, so that's fair in most cases. Spotify and Ticket Master are un fair, and you are feeding the giant that will swallow the scene. You want to go to a concert, but can't pay 300 $£€, start buying cd's again so artists can make a living again, outside these big corporates. And don't go to any show that costs more than 50 bucks to get in. Things will change, and more quickly than you might think, because: "they have the guns but, we have the numbers, gonna win if we're taking over" (quote: The Doors).
I've seen plenty of bands I discovered through Spotify play live, sometimes bought their merch. They'll always earn more through that than through a handfull of Spotify streams.
this is a great video dude. I have a bunch of music on Spotify, I barely have 6,000 monthly listeners, but I still end up getting about $150 a month from Spotify. So this was super informative, I was thinking everyone must be making millions, but this makes a lot of sense.
That’s a pretty impressive amount dude! I mean, at least it can help go towards gear and merch, idk if you play live or not, but we do so much better off of merch than streaming
If a streaming service offered artists 100% of the subscription revenue in exchange for a monthly license fee to use the service, would you switch to that platform?
Independent artists should continue to stay focused, play shows and grow their catalog. Keep releasing music. Over time it does start to make a difference.
Call me a goober but I’m still buying CD’s - nothing takes me back to my childhood bedroom like flipping through linear notes, reading lyrics and gawking at the attention to detail some artists put into packaging. I know there’s a small percentage of peeps that understand this, the happiness tangible media can bring.
Also there’s no comparison in quality. Every streaming company uses lossy, compressed bit rate files for streams, except (I believe) Tidal and some companies that offer a lossless file or .wav for download. The lowest quality (128k) mp3 LITERALLY removes 90% of data during compression... NINTEY F’N PERCENT!! If you bought a hamburger and they stripped 90% of it during “processing”, is that still the hamburger you ordered?
@@evergray5063 Amazon Music has a full HD option, but honestly... the vast majority of listeners don't care about this kind of stuff. Let's be real. Most are listening to their music on subpar headphones/car stereos/phones anyway
@@jynxycats it’s unfortunate people don’t seem to care. As someone involved in music and PRODUCTION for a long time, a lot of time, energy and effort goes into capturing every nuance of a recorded signal, then processing fx in the highest quality possible, then mixing and mastering using processes that retain all that quality, just for people to not care, or not even know that they are missing out on a huge amount of what SHOULD be there... but, whatcha gon’ do?
I'm guessing that such a trend is gone ... but the last time i purchased a cd , there were some insane anti-piracy drms and measures that made it a truly bad experience for a paying customer . Like being forced to install a custom player to listen to my cd on my pc ... and it even being incompatible with my old Hifi . I ripped the cd's audio to get around it , but this enraged me . Just like it enraged me to see minutes of anti piracy display on a paid dvd or bluray , and shitty menus , when pirates just launched the movie acquried in whatever quality they wanted . I do agree that quality should still be a concern in the digital realm , but i'm not going back to physical medium for most medias
Same. I love it. I used to take every one of my minimum wage paychecks and go after school and literally buy CD's based on the cover art sometimes. Ive found bands in genres I would have never thought I liked that way. That's how I stumbled on The Pharcyde back in the day and I still listen to that album sometimes.
I remember Billy Corgan on Joe Rogan saying how the record labels could've gotten better deals for the artists but they wanted more control over more money, he said the artists are basically getting pimped. It's a quite good interview.
There are 2 succinctly sad answers to "why doesn't streaming pay more money?" As Finn said: "Record labels" but as everyone should also understand: "It sucks to suck". It's never been easier and cheaper to create and crucially distribute music globally and there are millions of musical lobsters in the $15b industry bucket. If you aren't being plucked out by a label and relying solely on being what the world wants to listen to, well, you aren't going to make a living unless you have the listeners. There have never been more artists in history and they're all getting a taste of how incredibly difficult living off of art without a sponsor is.
@@quas3728 Agreed. The people running are filthy rich and have a virtual monopoly on the streaming industry, yet they can barely make a profit? Either their business is being run horribly, or the higher ups are ripping people off, or this business model just isn't viable. In none of those cases should the artists be footing the bill. Anyways, go buy from Bandcamp y'all
Don't get me wrong, I think Spotify has it's faults in it's practices but i'm so glad you addressed the misconception of 'spotify paying artists nothing' because this completely depends on your record deal. If you're earning nothing that's completely down to what your agreement was, myself and other musicians I know do very well on spotify (in relation to getting paid something, obviously the amount per stream is contestable...) because we knew that would be the case from the get go. Also spotify does wonders for young and upcoming bands on their platform via their play-listing, it's BY FAR the most friendly to new music compared to other DSP's. In all honesty my band owes it's recent popularity to spotify play-listing.
“But first I want to thank Spotify for sponsoring this video” would have been a funny opening 😂 Just kidding! Great video describing the mechanics of the industry. It’s also sad that people often tend to blame the ones they can easily identify on their radar: like Spotify without digging deeper in the way the whole labels part
Dude this is the first time I've seen someone explain this correctly. Artists are always taking up beef with the wrong party, when the real reason their not taking home much from streaming, is their far less than artist friendly record deals. Labels are the problem in those situations.
I think a lot of people keep forgetting that if Spotify and the other companies go away, a lot of people will just go back to pirating. Maybe they have been swept away by the bizarre vinyl resurgence and think that everybody should pay the same amounts even for digital stuff. Although Spotify also takes some part of the blame. Clearly there is a desire from the users to have more direct control on how their subscription amounts are distributed, but there does not seem to be any kind of innovation on that level.
It's possible to make pirating very difficult. Just have bots that scrub the internet of licensed files. How do you think TH-cam keeps track of videos that have licensed songs in them?
@@greggiorgio1846 Sure , but as ludicrous as it sounds , there have been a few lulls and "gap" moments where the most accessible and popular piracy tools got taken down , and enough people jut gave up and checked out , instead of surging back to legal alternatives . The better balance and alternative have been so far those streaming services ... them crashing down , might not have the result some hopes . Like said above what's needed are better re-distributions for the artists .
One detail you left out (and that complicates things exponentially) when discussing raising prices is the global nature of Spotify. $9.99/month is the rate for a subscription in the US, but Spotify is available in many other countries where that's a LOT of money, like India or South America. Part of the reason behind the success of Spotify is that they offer different subscription prices that are affordable for each market (unlike, say, iTunes, who tried to charge $1 per download for years, to people in countries where $1/hr was considered a good salary). So when people in poor countries buy a Spotify subscription for less than $2 a month, that also affects the total revenue they make and the pool of money that have to distribute amongst all artists. That's why there's no way of measuring or accurately calculating the money per stream a song makes.
This is one of the most important videos you’ve done. At the end of the day Spotify has helped me discover so many bands I wouldn’t have known about otherwise. So many albums streamed. And because I know of these bands I can go see them live, which is how they make their living.
Ive been supporting independent artists since the late 90's because of major labels and their business practices for decades. Thank you for the knowledge. I still believe independence is the future of music/art
I’ve been saying for years that record labels are pretty much pointless nowadays. Yeah distribution can be a hassle but honestly record labels, especially in the past 20 years, basically do nothing now and have the artists do all the work while taking a massive cut of their revenue. Streaming makes it so much easier to get your music out there into the world for people to listen too.
What alot of artist don't realize when they sign to a record label is that you are giving up your assets, and what the labels want is your music/branding to make money off of. But what alot of artist don't realize is in your deal...is you as the signed act has to pay for every decision you make out of your advance and a percentage on top of that back after said contract is done even if it's a flop or successful. The music industry is a bad credit card deal with a high interest rate that you can't get out of or pay down. It's a bad venture capitalist deal all around for fame with no fortune sadly.
Hey Finn, thanks for laying out the whole Spotify situation so concisely. I watch your PRMBA channel regularly and this was definitely one of your most informative videos, in a long list of informative videos. You reinforced that as long as there have been labels (criminals) , artists have been getting jacked. Love your work. What you do is really important culturally and historically. Don't stop .
Streaming royalties can't be that bad if Matt Farley earns ~$60,000 year writing silly songs about poop. He quit his day job and is a full-time musician now.
Citing something Swift did 8 years ago, and having her on the photo, is misleading. Not to mention all of her stuff is on Spotify now. Just to turn around and say Spotify is holding up the music industry. Click bait at its best. Because, once again, it’s the fucking label that is screwing bands. Still the same old story.
@@denniskline995 His original thumbnail had Lars and he said he was right. Finn fucked up big time there because everyone hated Lars including himself, he knows he's a hack in a band of actual talent.
Problem is many artists know that being independent is the way if you actually want to make good money. But at the same time they know to get that initial push out there they might need label support so they willingly sign these deals that openly rip them off. But the channels are certainly there for independent artists to get lucky and grow naturally (tiktok etc). Its not completely impossible to grow yourself on your own but you will need a shit ton of luck aswell.
musicians: yeah, our music is constantly devalued. nobody wants to pay us for our hard work, the industry is broken, man. those same musicians: yeah, i got a cracked pro-tools, cracked ozone 10, cracked serum, cracked distressor, but like i can't afford to pay for all these plugins.
Dude… the new scam in my opinion is getting naive music enthusiasts to believe that analog vinyl is superior to digital streaming. Yup… let’s get people to spend big bucks on analog vinyl records to then play them on cheap turntables with a frequency response comparable to that of an iPhone. 😂 Beautiful. 🤣
Saw that one of the clips Finn used featured This Wild Life’s Petaluma stained glass. I’ve loved that band for years and Finn also has a good interview with their vocalist Kevin about their decision to go independent.
Brilliant analysis Finn - thanks for breaking down the numbers for me. It always seems the fat cats always end up winning in some way. So making music without a label is better I guess? Good songs don’t necessarily need high end production and recording I spose - some artists deliberately go for the low-fi sound. Thanks Finn!
Finn, I love your music industry/technology videos. I think it's super important to inform people (especially people considering a career in music) about how the industry REALLY works and not how people THINK it works.
Dude: It’s super sad you, the punk rock mba would love a pro intellectual property law comment out of sheer ignorance. And without doing an ounce of research. Answer for the incredible benefit of artists and the sake of humanity. Why aren’t you even looking into full intellectual property abolition? I told you where to get the info. You have a platform, be responsible. Otherwise you don’t deserve this platform.
One reason to still buy physical media is ‘cancel culture’. Amazon recently pulled books from their store, even from libraries of people who had PAYED for the books by some conservative authors. This isn’t meant to be a political or ideological point, go yell about it on Reddit, but removing someone’s paid purchase because people were “offended“ isn’t OK in any scenario. Michael Jackson has avoided having his music pulled, but R. Kelly (not a good dude) had his music pulled from some services, and now Kanye West (or whatever idiotic name he’s changed it to) is now facing petitions to remove his music because of things he said in recent interviews. AGAIN, i’m not making any political or ideological stance here, believe what you believe, it makes no difference to me, just saying that if you enjoy the music of someone who ends up doing something stupid, but you are capable of “separating the art from the artist“ and still want access to your PAID purchase, it’s a lot harder for Amazon or Spotify to break into your house and take back your CD or vinyl
Great job for about a year I was able to make a full time living off of streams as an independent. People always talk about greed of the corporations, but no one talks about the greed of the artist that want to be signed, rich and famous. If you are truly doing this for the art you can easily promote yourself in today's world.
There was one missing piece to the history of Spotify, and how they treated Beta Users. When Spotify first started up, in Beta, they had an entirely different platform. It was based on user uploads, via torrent. Music was then streamed via torrent. Spotify promised Beta users that if they uploaded X amount of music (i think it was 20GB?), they would earn a lifetime membership to Spotify. I joined the Beta, uploaded the maximum amount of music they would allow at the time (22GB?), and set out enjoying the first cool streaming platform i had tried. It took a week or so to upload all of my music at the time. Several months later, the music industry went after Spotify, claiming that the torrent streaming they were using was too close to the pirating that was occurring, and that they may have a lot of their music from illegal downloaders. Spotify then negotiated with the industry to be able to legally (according to the labels' lawyers) stream their music. Once this happened, Spotify notified us beta users that got their platform on the map, that we could get 3 months of Spotify for 99p a month, then it would be at the regular price. I figured 3 bucks wasn't too bad, and that it would go back to being free (that was the regular price for us, before this). No, it did not go back to being free, nor was it at any discounted rate. It was the same price that everyone else had to pay for streaming. I was so angry that they basically did a flim-flam on us, that i will never pay them for streaming again. I would rather pay Apple, since they are an established brand that never deceived its users to get more users.
My friend is the songwriter and guitarist for The Sweet Mercy Band, he has shown me the checks from streaming and basically he makes enough to pay for the next album from them. Not bad for an independent band.
I use Spotify to find music I like enough to buy outright. Mostly through iTunes, but I'd love to not give Apple my money so if I can get it somewhere else, then I'll take that option. Maybe use Spotify for free and use that $10 per month to buy the music instead and support the artists directly.
Sorry but I still want a physical copy. I know that is going away but it really sucks and so is the album...I think back to so many songs that I love by artists that weren't commercial hits and you only found them by buying the record...I can't imagine a world were we only really get the "hits".
Guarantee if they raised prices people would scream corporate greed. People want artist to be paid until they have to pay it. Met so many people who just say Spotify should just simply pay artist more like spotify is sitting on Goldman Sachs level of stolen wealth but shutter any time sombody mentions raising account prices. Also thank for turning me on to fats’e
I would rather sell 1000 copies to my loyal fans than to get 10 000 steams on Spotify because my music is underground and I don't see my music with millions of streams .
Imma weirdo. Will keep buying CDs long as my favorite artists publish them, burn them to PC and phone, then go to concerts when they come my way. But let's face it, I'm old and 99% of my music catalogue was paid for years ago.
I just hope people will continue to think about the billionaires. What happens to them if they have to shell out a few bucks more and not be able to fund their wargames projects.
In the 90s I bought on average 4 albums a month (4 X $20) for about $80. Now I get almost every album ever recorded for $15 per month. I think Spotify significantly devalued the industry when they first entered the market but that genie is now out of the bottle.
Yeah, I agree. Raise the price.. I mean SPOTIFY isn't even making a profit. So they are destroying the music industry and slowly going out of business at the same time. Nice move morons.
Where do I even begin... You get to keep the albums for longer than a month, forever in fact. You don't only pay the label as a middle man but also the store and stuff like packkging, transportation. You don't just get the mp3 files, you get a piece of memorabilia (that can even be resold and in some cases gain value over time, I certainly have a few of those albums) And just because you have accses to every song on spotify, doesn't mean you can listen to every single song at once
"Take a few minutes out of your day to support independent artists. Stream their music, share it on your social media, buy some merch, go to their shows. Every time you do that, you'll be striking a blow in favor of artists" - Finn McKenty
As someone who works on CS for Spotify, customers would go balistic and cancel immediately if they pay anything over the 9.99 of the Individual service they pay
We all need to start supporting the artists we actually care about directly by purchasing through their websites and to start using piracy for everything else again.
Aside from the legacy labels, the current industry is riddled with third party playlist scams, bogus online PR reps, and companies that want you to pay for advertisement to inflate your content with bots.. Independent is still the way to be. STAY FREE!!!🤘❤️
Labels have always had a very one-sided relationship with artists. I read three books about the industry in the late 90's early 2000's and remember being super disillusioned with how it worked. But even if a newly "discovered" act got a crappy deal, the labels didn't touch merchandising and endorsement deals. That's what was recommended artists fight to keep to themselves to make money from their work. Napster didn't almost kill the industry, the industry's refusal to adapt and reform almost killed it. The tech industries saw the opportunity and took over. The labels then used their power to insert themselves between the artist and the distributer to suck as much money as they could from both. They came up with and standardized the 360 deals which dips into every single revenue stream an artists has. Whereas before you may never see a dime from mechanical or publishing royalties because your crappy 10 points from you contract was never going to catch up to the ever growing advance debt, after havimg to cover all the bullcrap "expenses" the label "incurred" like loss of inventory, promotional costs, etc, you could count on the money from your merch table, and being featured in an Earnie Ball string ad in a Sweetwater catalog. Now that same shitty 10% cut deal applies to all of those. Even if the label didn't move a finger to generate money from it. Record Label business model has always been abusive, and it's only gotten worse. Artists I know that are signed to major labels can only make money from their own T-Shit company that can't have any obvious affiliation to their band to keep the label's greedy tentacles off it. I feel the music industry doesn't "help" artists break out. They are gate keepers. They own the gates. They always have. They wield their power to subjugate every player in the industry. You have to basically accept becoming their indentured servant for passage through the gate and they try to destroy you if you defy them (30 Seconds to Mars vs EMI for example). It is the only fully legal (and glamorized) model of indentured servitude in modern existence. It shouldn't be this way. Especially when the music industry no longer does any significant distribution of their own anymore that contributes to the majority of their revenue. There are some artists that are trying to come up with some interesting models to help independent artists make a living from their music and I hope some of these work out. I just think a talented artist that didn't start out with an advantage shouldn't have to chose between being famous and broke, or remaining in the underground forever to not have to give up all the fruits of their labor to a label.
I’ve always wanted a breakdown on how artists get paid (or kinda get paid) by streaming services for years. Thanks for making it simple to understand. Fuck major record labels tho!
I like Spotify because I can freely rapidly discover new songs and artists and just freely listen to things and it gives me new artists to look to into. And some people like me (young) cannot personally pay for things. And I love just rapidly discovering new music
Oh God, can you imagine if each major label decides to release their own streaming service for their own catalog and pulls out of Spotify? 🙄🙄🙄 Just like it's happening with Netflix and Disney+, HBOMAX, etc
From a marketer's perspective, rising the subscription price is most probably not a viable idea for Spotify. Firstly right now the main players in the streaming industry all charge the same monthly flat fee; Therefore, one player cannot rise its price without pricing itself out of the game. At best, the platforms can diversify themselves by adding exclusive products and/or services and charging premiums for those so they can finance their core service (music streaming). Secondly, we need to consider the consumer's price elasticity and I'd assume the price to be pretty inelastic. On the one hand, users are already used to one standard price across the industry ($10 in Canada). On the other hand, consumers always have other alternatives such as going back to pirating which has never been so easy with tools such as VPNs and torrent software. Considering the current economic context including the highest inflation in the past 40 years and the prediction for an imminent recession, rising prices right now would be playing with the fire because spending on entertainment is usually the first account in the budget to be reduced when households are struggling financially. Artists ought to expect an even tougher time once the U.S. joined by Canada join other OECD countries into recession. On another note, although the technological revolution had led to the democratization of the industry by allowing self-production and self-promotion, it also shattered the entry barriers of the industry-leading to the saturation of the music market. Therefore, artists are facing more competition than ever both from inside their own industry and from substitutes from connex industries such as movie streaming, podcast streaming, Tik Tok streaming, video game streaming, video game playing, etc. Indeed, there is no short supply of alternatives for entertainment in the modern infobesity which is the Internet. Hence, musicians need to stop thinking about their music as their sole product offering. For instance, they must add products such as promotional goodies to be sold on their e-commerce website because people can naturally more easily attribute value to physical goods than digital ones. Additionally, selling branded items such as t-shirts and bennies is also a free advertisement for the band. Musicians, let your fan be your best brand ambassadors! Furthermore, musicians must stop thinking solely about their brand revolving solely around their music offering and put much thought into their "human brand". They must think about how they, as artists, and as human beings, are part of their global offering and leverage those socio-affective links with their fan base. Artists need to be accessible and establish a dialog, notably through social media, with their fans. This allows them not only to get socio-financing but also to sell high-end products and services to their best patrons. For example, the artists can offer exclusive interviews or private guitar lessons through video conferencing. Finally, although artists might be better off, in some cases, without labels, the reality remains that selling music is nevertheless a commercial endeavor in a very competitive and volatile market. Independent artists need to be willing to invest in professional services such as those of graphic designers, marketing firms, accountants, lawyers, etc. if they want to be able to be profitable. More importantly, still, the artists themselves must think of themselves as full-fledged entrepreneurs and act consequently notably by getting business mentoring and professional training (e.g. attending a minor/certificate in administration or marketing).
Spotify isn't going anywhere. The industry has to adapt. I wish I could remember who said it - "You have to go where the fans are. Not where they **were*, not where you *want them to be,** but where they are." Spotify is where the fans are. Personally, I think/hope we are already seeing a decline in label power. A lot of artists are expected to not only make all of their own music, but market it entirely on their own, too. Going viral on TikTok is far more important than getting played on the radio. I feel like TH-cam had a rapid version of that happen with the decline of MCNs, with a lot of creators going "what the hell are you doing for me, exactly?" MCNs all but disappeared over the span of just a few years.
Glad you made this video and made it easy to understand. I thought it was more common knowledge that record labels get paid, not artists but apparently not
You’re right that the real answer is we gotta hold the labels accountable and support independent artists to make not being signed a more viable option. We gotta change the system. Until the system changes though, if people like a band (especially a smaller band) they should buy their merch, buy their music on bandcamp (and artists, put your music on bandcamp please! Let me pay you!), go see them live, etc.
I have one good advice to support artists even more We use Spotify etc but not all the time, If you are watching something on youtube just play some music on Spotify but turn down the volume, you will watch your content and support musicians at the same time
One of the areas you didn't cover is that the model of money distribution from Spotify favors big artists and kills small niche genres. E.g. I listen to a small variety of independent artists only, but the get only few thousand streams, and Drake or whoever else gets millions. From the 10 bucks I paid for my subscription most will go to Drake who I don't even listen, that makes me sad:( that's why we should support our favorite artists by buying their albums directly.
Hey there I wanted to let you know I agree. I am an independent artist and I steered away from Spotify for this reason. The infrastructure of Spotify is it to support the small artists who need recognition and who are just trying to make a living. They support the already super rich famous superstars only. That’s sad I agree. Question for you. Do you think independent artist should sell CDs for their fans to buy or a digital download. This is because you said you’d rather buy the albums directly from them which is awesome and I agree with that but how. How would you want to buy it what format would you wanna use. Let me know thanks. Also if you want to your original Pop music from an independent artist I have that on my channel sorry I meant to say here original Pop music sorry
@@lillysummeroriginals1213 Usually I buy digital music on Bandcamp. I'm not a fan of CDs. And then listen to it on Spotify, as it's still the most convenient tool.
@@pavelshchors OK thank you so much that makes sense. If you want to hear original Pop music for everyone of all ages I have it on my channel. Thanks again and have a great day
My complete unwillingness to do any sort of promotion has made finding an audience difficult, but the few folks who have found my stuff have come from playlists folks have made on Spotify. I would add that the Spotify featured playlists have a really abstruse process for submission, and communication about it is super weak. One thing Spotify could do to help independent artists is find easier, clearer ways to promote smaller artists through playlists, spotlights, etc.
I think there is one important detail you did not mention that is relevant. As far as I understand it, there are sort of "bonuses" for music owners with a lot of streams, so a label that has multiple artists will get paid more per stream than an artist that publishes directly
And you know they worked out better deals with the labels who own the Beatles, and artists like Taylor Swift in order to even get them on the platform.
One of my tracks has 13,236 plays. I have no label. Been paid $38.38 for that. So, 0.0028 per play. The definitely pay on a curve. If you are Drake, they pay more than what they pay me. Just a boots on the ground look for y'all.
We are an independent band who’s gain over 425,795 streams with no royalty splits owning 100% of our music and Spotify has paid us $92.15. Comes out to about $0.0002 a stream.
I still use Spotify some, but ever since Snoop Dogg pulled Death Row's catalogue from the streaming services, I've gone back to buying CD's. Honestly, nothing beats the ability to actually own the music and listen to it whenever you want. Plus, you can still rip the CD's and don't have to worry about artists or labels pulling the music from streaming.
3:47 I was in the original 350k that Metallica banned for using Napster back in 1999. I STILL have them downloaded songs though stored on my Amazon music lol, not that it matters now.
a few things here that have nothing to do with labels and I think deserve to mentioned: -you actually pay to get your music on spotify etc. Depending on the provider you chose, that's 20-50 Dollar per year. Some of them take % of your generated income, too -the amount of streams used as examples here (100 million, tens of thousands of monthly listeners) is not even remotely attainable for the vast majority of independent artists. Even unsigned bands with a big name in a specific scene, for example Death Metal, usually have no more than tens of thousand plays. In most cases, it's far far less than that -in order to be discovered, artists usually have to pay to get into playlists. I'm not talking about the huge, spotify-generated lists here. But getting into, let's say, a Death Metal playlist with 5000 listeneres will cost you at least 200 Dollars per month. Just for a slim chance of getting discovered. And without a big marketing machine behind you, that's literally your only chance of people getting to know you -playlists and the algorithm also change songwriting and production a lot. Basically, the more "unique" your sound is, the less spotify can sort you into it's automated recommendations or playlists. Ever asked yourself why, for example, every current Deathcore band is produced in the exact same way? That's why. Sticking out is literally bad for buisiness here. Plus, long songs, an intro etc are more likely to be skipped, causing many artists to abandon that. Every unsigned band I talk to or connect to via my own band, no matter which country they are from, how long they are active or how much they invest says the same: They NEVER made more money via streaming then what they spent on it alone. Not even close. And I know no one who expects to actually get money from spotify and co.
The thing some people don't get is that labels are basically pointless unless you are extremely extremely broke and cant afford ANYTHING. You can build a solid marketing plan for 30 bucks a month. If your in a band and the cost is split its 5 or 6 bucks per person. Thats a pack of smokes or a joint like, theres no reason each member can't come up with 5 bucks. Pretty much guarantees you'll always have traction and new people listening to you everyday and also helps lighten the load on manual marketing which is a big reason people just give up. Views with that budget can range from about 2k minimum a month but is usually closer to 5 to 10k, sometimes more if your campaign is set up well. Tom macdonald is one example of an artist who used this strategy in his early days to its full potential. Not really a fan of his but the guy is very smart and he knows how to market. People think you need to spend thousands on marketing/advertising when its way more beneficial to spend way less money and spend more time making an ad that will grab peoples attention. You can spend 100 bucks, have a crappy ad and get 10k views or spend 30 bucks make a good ad and get the same results. The ad itself is the most important thing not how much you spend pushing it. If its a good ad and your music is good it'll push itself. Merch can be made in bulk and most towns/cities have local shops who make shirts and they will usually charge less than other custom tshirt places online. This is for examples sake but lets say you spend 300 to get shirts made, you get 50 shirts and you charge 20 a piece, thats 1000 bucks, 1k - 300 is 700 profit, go buy more shirts with 300 of that 700 and the 400 extra is pure profit for a van, gear, whatever. Its hard to sell that many shirts usually but thats just the general idea of how you should be selling merch. Same concept can be applied to wristbands or really just about any merch related items you can think of. If you have ZERO money and want merch anyway you can make a spreadshirt shop for FREE, makes tons of products, build your own webstore, they handle all sales, make all the products, distribution, etc. You will make less with this option overall but you can't beat a free online merch store esp with a small or nonexistent budget. Heck its even just a good tool to use to get an idea of what your graphic/logo may look like on a shirt, mug, etc. Its a great tool! Music distribution especially just for the digital stuff costs very very little when you use distrokid or tunecore and they put it on all the platforms for you. Cds distribution is a bit more complicated but the digital stuff is EASY. my band paid roughly 20 bucks for the year to host our songs on all the major streaming services. They handle and payout all your royalities as well. You fill out the online forms, submit your tunes, pay the money and they do the rest basically. Its more than worth it. Lets say you start a band and have a few songs and very little money. Keep in mind in order to get your first ad setup for the month, to get your songs on all streaming services, and to build a online merch store its only gonna cost around 50 to 80 bucks altogether to get that all started at the very basic starter level. Which isn't that bad split up between 4 or 5 people. Guys, this stuff is doable!!!! Please do not sign to a label. When you sign to a label you are giving your money away for things that you can do yourself. On top of that you signing a deal indirectly keeps the toxic cycle going. We as artists have more power and control then ever, we do not need labels anymore. They need you, not they other way around. I know this was long winded but im really passionate about this topic. Take it from me, you do not want to sign a label deal. There are 3rd party companies for EVERYTHING that you will need to have a successful band, the difference is these companies won't take most of your money. Just do your research and invest your time to learn and try new things. This stuff isn't as overwhelming as you'd think. Hope this reaches someone 🙏
I think the best of both worlds is supporting directly the bands that you love. As a christian metalhead, the bands I listen to the most are really small so even though I mainly listen to them on spotify, I also buy cds for my car and probably go bandcamp when I'll get out of school
You have to prove that your product works. Once you are able to do that… you have the upper hand in negotiating tables. It’s really the only sensible way moving forward. I’m a huge believer in this…
my whole life, the story has been "artists aren't getting paid by the music industry." when cassettes and cds were introduced, it was "record companies are grabbing all the money people are shelling out for these new formats and not paying the artists" just like now with streaming. but there's more music than ever, and some musicians are turning into billionaires. at a certain point, it's just another fight among people wealthier than me. really, artists need to suck it up and hire lawyers. they're super expensive and not fun to be around (i used to be one) but we've seen the alternative now for decades: the labels have lawyers already, and you will be screwed if you don't too.
Hopefully the indie solution starts becoming the norm. With improving technology, it becomes easier and easier for people to record music at their home, and with physical mediums being *less* in demand, there's no need for people to hire labels to distribute. And even if you did want to put out albums on CDs and the like, its certainly easier than ever to partner with an online shipping store on your own and only splitting with them if the demand is there. Sure, this all means that music is and has become oversatured in a way, but that certainly shouldn't discourage you creative souls, and hopefully the truly great music gets to shine
Also those smaller artists are monetizing their music in ways that they couldn't before Spotify. Before it was practically giving it away to get noticed, so more people are able to get into the business. A little income through streams can be better than not having any income income at all
If you want to support a band, see them live and buy some merch at the show. The band makes a much larger cut from those sales. A good portion of my music collection I have gotten by purchasing the CDs at the shows from the band merch booth (yes, I buy and collect CDs, even though I listen to streaming music mostly, it's just my thing).
Most artists today do not have a label, yet many have thousands of plays. Spotify gets to use our likeness and popularity to earn revenue. However an artist should not complain about the royalty rate if they know the system yet agree to the terms.
This is why I've always viewed Spotify as a necessary evil. It came as a way to help the music industry adapt to the internet age, and along with being one of the largest income sources for artists, it offers lots of exposure for them, but the catch is the rate at which artists are paid per stream. Basically the same view I have of record labels, that they offer a lot for artists in terms of representation and assistance, with the catch being they take a large cut of the music's earnings. I like summing this up with a line from NateWantsToBattle's song "Phantom": "I'm not what you want, but I'm exactly what you need, take a bite and feed, your satisfaction guaranteed"
Your description of Spotify and the record labels are EXACTLY why you can hear Taylor Swift's full catalog on all streaming services now, I hate her, but damn, by re-recording those songs, she cuts the middle man out. That's why it makes more sense than even to be an independent artist, without a label. At this point, major labels are a cog in the expression of music.
Check out Eargasm Earplugs! bit.ly/3DbhMdz
is taylor wrong?
Great info, I really enjoyed the breakdown, cheers
love my eargasms ill order from your link when these are wore out
Spotify but I still buy CDs
I wish I could make videos at the quality of your work. I'll keep pushing forwards. Wishing you ongoing success, and the ability to relax sometimes, and brainstorm / think outside of the box to create new videos!
We've made it kind of a band ritual at this point to take the $25 cheque we get from Spotify every 3 to 6 months, deposit it, withdraw it in cash, and use it to get McDonalds.
Your 'band' must be two people, because $25 at McDonalds will get you about two meals and some change these days. 😉
@@Caffeine_Club I can spend 25 bucks at McDonald's and feed 5 people for days. What in the world are you getting for it to be that expensive?
What’s your band name bro
McDonald’s is the worst food ever
@@Beanbag777 yeah but its also affordable and one of the few places thats running overnight when you're on the road with only $25.
Didn't expect you to mention Fats'e! Such a great artist. His new album is fantastic!
Thanks for breaking all of this down!
took me a while to warm up to it, but definitely now a favorite
@@lukehunker6429 yeah, I just really love math rock and the riffs in his album are just so nice along with the chill emo vibe. Enjoying it for sure
Yes! This is the kind of content that made me fall in love with PRMBA back in the day. Business-oriented but through the prism of popular music. Informative, funny and challenging. I know the “Wikipedia” vids get the most views but I’d love to see more of these types sprinkled throughout
Subbed, everything is well resumed. This is why artists fail because they don't know the record label business!!
This is one of the best, most concise explanations on this topic I've heard. I finally think I understand how it all works!
Thank you!
I agree. This was a really good video. I usually look at how TH-cam pays creators, but I've never really looked into how Spotify does. Thanks =)
I remember when Spotify first came out I was amazed that I could stream all of that music, legally, for free. I think if they had started with a monthly tier of $30 or even $40 a ton of people would have signed up because we were used to having to pay for either CDs or iTunes to get music legally. But once they introduced this free model, everyone got used to the idea that music should be free. It's hard to get people to start paying for things that used to be free.
We all have to start being aware that the internet is NOT FREE, and if something is free, it's probably killing a group of people. In this case musicians. We ALL have to go back to buying CD's again, to get things back on track, and get corporates bowing their knees. And if they do, we are going to kick them once more with the final hit. We love rock/metal/punk music and our scene, and we got to fight for it to stay alive and make it big again like in the '80 urly '90. Big labels, yes there is no way around them, and they actualy do stuff for the artist, so that's fair in most cases. Spotify and Ticket Master are un fair, and you are feeding the giant that will swallow the scene. You want to go to a concert, but can't pay 300 $£€, start buying cd's again so artists can make a living again, outside these big corporates. And don't go to any show that costs more than 50 bucks to get in. Things will change, and more quickly than you might think, because: "they have the guns but, we have the numbers, gonna win if we're taking over" (quote: The Doors).
Spotify has at least introduced me to a countless number of incredible bands I never would have heard of otherwise.
But you continue to listen to them on Spotify which makes absolutely no difference to them in the end 🤣
@@Beanbag777 yes i do, and i also buy their merch, CDs, etc.
I've seen plenty of bands I discovered through Spotify play live, sometimes bought their merch. They'll always earn more through that than through a handfull of Spotify streams.
I feel that same way about youtube
In my experience youtube is 100 times better at recommending me new music and artists. Spotify just recommends me more of the same
this is a great video dude. I have a bunch of music on Spotify, I barely have 6,000 monthly listeners, but I still end up getting about $150 a month from Spotify. So this was super informative, I was thinking everyone must be making millions, but this makes a lot of sense.
That’s a pretty impressive amount dude! I mean, at least it can help go towards gear and merch, idk if you play live or not, but we do so much better off of merch than streaming
If a streaming service offered artists 100% of the subscription revenue in exchange for a monthly license fee to use the service, would you switch to that platform?
Independent artists should continue to stay focused, play shows and grow their catalog. Keep releasing music. Over time it does start to make a difference.
Call me a goober but I’m still buying CD’s - nothing takes me back to my childhood bedroom like flipping through linear notes, reading lyrics and gawking at the attention to detail some artists put into packaging. I know there’s a small percentage of peeps that understand this, the happiness tangible media can bring.
Also there’s no comparison in quality. Every streaming company uses lossy, compressed bit rate files for streams, except (I believe) Tidal and some companies that offer a lossless file or .wav for download. The lowest quality (128k) mp3 LITERALLY removes 90% of data during compression... NINTEY F’N PERCENT!! If you bought a hamburger and they stripped 90% of it during “processing”, is that still the hamburger you ordered?
@@evergray5063 Amazon Music has a full HD option, but honestly... the vast majority of listeners don't care about this kind of stuff. Let's be real. Most are listening to their music on subpar headphones/car stereos/phones anyway
@@jynxycats it’s unfortunate people don’t seem to care. As someone involved in music and PRODUCTION for a long time, a lot of time, energy and effort goes into capturing every nuance of a recorded signal, then processing fx in the highest quality possible, then mixing and mastering using processes that retain all that quality, just for people to not care, or not even know that they are missing out on a huge amount of what SHOULD be there... but, whatcha gon’ do?
I'm guessing that such a trend is gone ... but the last time i purchased a cd , there were some insane anti-piracy drms and measures that made it a truly bad experience for a paying customer . Like being forced to install a custom player to listen to my cd on my pc ... and it even being incompatible with my old Hifi . I ripped the cd's audio to get around it , but this enraged me . Just like it enraged me to see minutes of anti piracy display on a paid dvd or bluray , and shitty menus , when pirates just launched the movie acquried in whatever quality they wanted . I do agree that quality should still be a concern in the digital realm , but i'm not going back to physical medium for most medias
Same. I love it. I used to take every one of my minimum wage paychecks and go after school and literally buy CD's based on the cover art sometimes. Ive found bands in genres I would have never thought I liked that way. That's how I stumbled on The Pharcyde back in the day and I still listen to that album sometimes.
I remember Billy Corgan on Joe Rogan saying how the record labels could've gotten better deals for the artists but they wanted more control over more money, he said the artists are basically getting pimped. It's a quite good interview.
There are 2 succinctly sad answers to "why doesn't streaming pay more money?" As Finn said: "Record labels" but as everyone should also understand: "It sucks to suck". It's never been easier and cheaper to create and crucially distribute music globally and there are millions of musical lobsters in the $15b industry bucket. If you aren't being plucked out by a label and relying solely on being what the world wants to listen to, well, you aren't going to make a living unless you have the listeners. There have never been more artists in history and they're all getting a taste of how incredibly difficult living off of art without a sponsor is.
well said
I don't understand why everyone only blame record labels. Daniel Ek became billionaire for being spotify ceo.
Might as well be as original as we can be then right?
@@quas3728 Agreed. The people running are filthy rich and have a virtual monopoly on the streaming industry, yet they can barely make a profit? Either their business is being run horribly, or the higher ups are ripping people off, or this business model just isn't viable. In none of those cases should the artists be footing the bill. Anyways, go buy from Bandcamp y'all
@@hrotha well said. Bandcamp is the best!
Don't get me wrong, I think Spotify has it's faults in it's practices but i'm so glad you addressed the misconception of 'spotify paying artists nothing' because this completely depends on your record deal. If you're earning nothing that's completely down to what your agreement was, myself and other musicians I know do very well on spotify (in relation to getting paid something, obviously the amount per stream is contestable...) because we knew that would be the case from the get go. Also spotify does wonders for young and upcoming bands on their platform via their play-listing, it's BY FAR the most friendly to new music compared to other DSP's. In all honesty my band owes it's recent popularity to spotify play-listing.
“But first I want to thank Spotify for sponsoring this video” would have been a funny opening 😂 Just kidding! Great video describing the mechanics of the industry. It’s also sad that people often tend to blame the ones they can easily identify on their radar: like Spotify without digging deeper in the way the whole labels part
Dude this is the first time I've seen someone explain this correctly. Artists are always taking up beef with the wrong party, when the real reason their not taking home much from streaming, is their far less than artist friendly record deals. Labels are the problem in those situations.
I think a lot of people keep forgetting that if Spotify and the other companies go away, a lot of people will just go back to pirating. Maybe they have been swept away by the bizarre vinyl resurgence and think that everybody should pay the same amounts even for digital stuff.
Although Spotify also takes some part of the blame. Clearly there is a desire from the users to have more direct control on how their subscription amounts are distributed, but there does not seem to be any kind of innovation on that level.
It's possible to make pirating very difficult. Just have bots that scrub the internet of licensed files. How do you think TH-cam keeps track of videos that have licensed songs in them?
@@greggiorgio1846 Sure , but as ludicrous as it sounds , there have been a few lulls and "gap" moments where the most accessible and popular piracy tools got taken down , and enough people jut gave up and checked out , instead of surging back to legal alternatives . The better balance and alternative have been so far those streaming services ... them crashing down , might not have the result some hopes . Like said above what's needed are better re-distributions for the artists .
Bro I would rather people pirate any music I might make, than some a-hole company take all of the money it would have made.
@@greggiorgio1846 good luck scrubbing sites from non western countries
@@AnarchistMetalhead Nevermind, we shouldn't do anything. Good plan!
One detail you left out (and that complicates things exponentially) when discussing raising prices is the global nature of Spotify. $9.99/month is the rate for a subscription in the US, but Spotify is available in many other countries where that's a LOT of money, like India or South America. Part of the reason behind the success of Spotify is that they offer different subscription prices that are affordable for each market (unlike, say, iTunes, who tried to charge $1 per download for years, to people in countries where $1/hr was considered a good salary). So when people in poor countries buy a Spotify subscription for less than $2 a month, that also affects the total revenue they make and the pool of money that have to distribute amongst all artists. That's why there's no way of measuring or accurately calculating the money per stream a song makes.
100% true! In Perú I'm paying almost $7 for My duos subscription (me and My wife)
This is one of the most important videos you’ve done. At the end of the day Spotify has helped me discover so many bands I wouldn’t have known about otherwise. So many albums streamed. And because I know of these bands I can go see them live, which is how they make their living.
Ive been supporting independent artists since the late 90's because of major labels and their business practices for decades. Thank you for the knowledge. I still believe independence is the future of music/art
I’ve been saying for years that record labels are pretty much pointless nowadays. Yeah distribution can be a hassle but honestly record labels, especially in the past 20 years, basically do nothing now and have the artists do all the work while taking a massive cut of their revenue. Streaming makes it so much easier to get your music out there into the world for people to listen too.
Exactly. Fair enough in the days of physical media and radio being the only real means of accessing music, but these days they are really unnecessary.
Become the knight brought me here🤟
Great video! Would love to see more industry related content like this
Spotify being labeled the bad guy when really the big record label is.
Record labels are still the bad guys like they've always been.
What alot of artist don't realize when they sign to a record label is that you are giving up your assets, and what the labels want is your music/branding to make money off of. But what alot of artist don't realize is in your deal...is you as the signed act has to pay for every decision you make out of your advance and a percentage on top of that back after said contract is done even if it's a flop or successful. The music industry is a bad credit card deal with a high interest rate that you can't get out of or pay down. It's a bad venture capitalist deal all around for fame with no fortune sadly.
Everyone wants to complain about Spotify paying artists, but nobody talks about labels not paying artists
I don’t use Spotify. I use other services but I also buy albums I like from artists I like.
Hey Finn, thanks for laying out the whole Spotify situation so concisely. I watch your PRMBA channel regularly and this was definitely one of your most informative videos, in a long list of informative videos. You reinforced that as long as there have been labels (criminals) , artists have been getting jacked. Love your work. What you do is really important culturally and historically. Don't stop .
Eargasm earplugs are well worth it and a must for any kind of show. Hear the music and hear the next day. Cool to see Finn sponsored by them
Streaming royalties can't be that bad if Matt Farley earns ~$60,000 year writing silly songs about poop. He quit his day job and is a full-time musician now.
Hell yea, shoutout to Matt Farley, shoutout Bonezone
Seriously, beats working 12hrs a day in a factory lol
Spotify be like “yeah we’re making bank but we’re not going to pay you because fuck you!”
Citing something Swift did 8 years ago, and having her on the photo, is misleading. Not to mention all of her stuff is on Spotify now. Just to turn around and say Spotify is holding up the music industry. Click bait at its best. Because, once again, it’s the fucking label that is screwing bands. Still the same old story.
@@denniskline995 His original thumbnail had Lars and he said he was right. Finn fucked up big time there because everyone hated Lars including himself, he knows he's a hack in a band of actual talent.
This is why more artists are owning their own music. Record labels will be a thing of the past.
Problem is many artists know that being independent is the way if you actually want to make good money. But at the same time they know to get that initial push out there they might need label support so they willingly sign these deals that openly rip them off. But the channels are certainly there for independent artists to get lucky and grow naturally (tiktok etc). Its not completely impossible to grow yourself on your own but you will need a shit ton of luck aswell.
musicians: yeah, our music is constantly devalued. nobody wants to pay us for our hard work, the industry is broken, man.
those same musicians: yeah, i got a cracked pro-tools, cracked ozone 10, cracked serum, cracked distressor, but like i can't afford to pay for all these plugins.
Spotify is trying to make the Record Labels look bad
Lots of true statements here! Keep it up fellow independent artists, it’s possible to make it happen!
Dude… the new scam in my opinion is getting naive music enthusiasts to believe that analog vinyl is superior to digital streaming. Yup… let’s get people to spend big bucks on analog vinyl records to then play them on cheap turntables with a frequency response comparable to that of an iPhone. 😂 Beautiful. 🤣
Vinyl sounds awful tbh
Saw that one of the clips Finn used featured This Wild Life’s Petaluma stained glass. I’ve loved that band for years and Finn also has a good interview with their vocalist Kevin about their decision to go independent.
They're so good. They put on such a fun show.
Brilliant analysis Finn - thanks for breaking down the numbers for me. It always seems the fat cats always end up winning in some way. So making music without a label is better I guess? Good songs don’t necessarily need high end production and recording I spose - some artists deliberately go for the low-fi sound. Thanks Finn!
Bandcamp is the only thing I give money to.
Finn, I love your music industry/technology videos. I think it's super important to inform people (especially people considering a career in music) about how the industry REALLY works and not how people THINK it works.
Being in a band, I’m definitely taking notes that on what you say Finn. Thanks again.
Highly informative video! Gonna show it to anyone who complains about Spotify not paying artists.
Dude: It’s super sad you, the punk rock mba would love a pro intellectual property law comment out of sheer ignorance. And without doing an ounce of research.
Answer for the incredible benefit of artists and the sake of humanity. Why aren’t you even looking into full intellectual property abolition? I told you where to get the info.
You have a platform, be responsible. Otherwise you don’t deserve this platform.
Do your research. Don’t waste another minute. The info is right here:
👈
I have a playlist of the best videos on IP on my channel for all interested.
Record labels are savages
One reason to still buy physical media is ‘cancel culture’. Amazon recently pulled books from their store, even from libraries of people who had PAYED for the books by some conservative authors. This isn’t meant to be a political or ideological point, go yell about it on Reddit, but removing someone’s paid purchase because people were “offended“ isn’t OK in any scenario.
Michael Jackson has avoided having his music pulled, but R. Kelly (not a good dude) had his music pulled from some services, and now Kanye West (or whatever idiotic name he’s changed it to) is now facing petitions to remove his music because of things he said in recent interviews. AGAIN, i’m not making any political or ideological stance here, believe what you believe, it makes no difference to me, just saying that if you enjoy the music of someone who ends up doing something stupid, but you are capable of “separating the art from the artist“ and still want access to your PAID purchase, it’s a lot harder for Amazon or Spotify to break into your house and take back your CD or vinyl
Great job for about a year I was able to make a full time living off of streams as an independent. People always talk about greed of the corporations, but no one talks about the greed of the artist that want to be signed, rich and famous. If you are truly doing this for the art you can easily promote yourself in today's world.
There was one missing piece to the history of Spotify, and how they treated Beta Users. When Spotify first started up, in Beta, they had an entirely different platform. It was based on user uploads, via torrent. Music was then streamed via torrent. Spotify promised Beta users that if they uploaded X amount of music (i think it was 20GB?), they would earn a lifetime membership to Spotify. I joined the Beta, uploaded the maximum amount of music they would allow at the time (22GB?), and set out enjoying the first cool streaming platform i had tried. It took a week or so to upload all of my music at the time. Several months later, the music industry went after Spotify, claiming that the torrent streaming they were using was too close to the pirating that was occurring, and that they may have a lot of their music from illegal downloaders. Spotify then negotiated with the industry to be able to legally (according to the labels' lawyers) stream their music.
Once this happened, Spotify notified us beta users that got their platform on the map, that we could get 3 months of Spotify for 99p a month, then it would be at the regular price. I figured 3 bucks wasn't too bad, and that it would go back to being free (that was the regular price for us, before this). No, it did not go back to being free, nor was it at any discounted rate. It was the same price that everyone else had to pay for streaming. I was so angry that they basically did a flim-flam on us, that i will never pay them for streaming again. I would rather pay Apple, since they are an established brand that never deceived its users to get more users.
My friend is the songwriter and guitarist for The Sweet Mercy Band, he has shown me the checks from streaming and basically he makes enough to pay for the next album from them. Not bad for an independent band.
I use Spotify to find music I like enough to buy outright. Mostly through iTunes, but I'd love to not give Apple my money so if I can get it somewhere else, then I'll take that option. Maybe use Spotify for free and use that $10 per month to buy the music instead and support the artists directly.
Sorry but I still want a physical copy. I know that is going away but it really sucks and so is the album...I think back to so many songs that I love by artists that weren't commercial hits and you only found them by buying the record...I can't imagine a world were we only really get the "hits".
Guarantee if they raised prices people would scream corporate greed. People want artist to be paid until they have to pay it. Met so many people who just say Spotify should just simply pay artist more like spotify is sitting on Goldman Sachs level of stolen wealth but shutter any time sombody mentions raising account prices. Also thank for turning me on to fats’e
I never stream anything. I don't want to pay monthly forever. I buy the albums I want off iTunes.
I would rather sell 1000 copies to my loyal fans than to get 10 000 steams on Spotify because my music is underground and I don't see my music with millions of streams .
Imma weirdo. Will keep buying CDs long as my favorite artists publish them, burn them to PC and phone, then go to concerts when they come my way. But let's face it, I'm old and 99% of my music catalogue was paid for years ago.
I just hope people will continue to think about the billionaires. What happens to them if they have to shell out a few bucks more and not be able to fund their wargames projects.
In the 90s I bought on average 4 albums a month (4 X $20) for about $80. Now I get almost every album ever recorded for $15 per month. I think Spotify significantly devalued the industry when they first entered the market but that genie is now out of the bottle.
Yeah, I agree. Raise the price.. I mean SPOTIFY isn't even making a profit. So they are destroying the music industry and slowly going out of business at the same time. Nice move morons.
I understand what you’re saying, but at the time they were competing with Napster, limewire, etc, which were free.
Their competition was literally piracy. They convinced people it was easier to pay a small fee for the convenience.
Where do I even begin... You get to keep the albums for longer than a month, forever in fact. You don't only pay the label as a middle man but also the store and stuff like packkging, transportation. You don't just get the mp3 files, you get a piece of memorabilia (that can even be resold and in some cases gain value over time, I certainly have a few of those albums)
And just because you have accses to every song on spotify, doesn't mean you can listen to every single song at once
@@burningwing0 Pretty sure those things were gone by then. They killed the Itunes store though!
"Take a few minutes out of your day to support independent artists. Stream their music, share it on your social media, buy some merch, go to their shows. Every time you do that, you'll be striking a blow in favor of artists" - Finn McKenty
streaming music of your favorite band is like stealing money from your best friend
As someone who works on CS for Spotify, customers would go balistic and cancel immediately if they pay anything over the 9.99 of the Individual service they pay
I'm weird, so I use YT Music
We all need to start supporting the artists we actually care about directly by purchasing through their websites and to start using piracy for everything else again.
I agree. Paradoxically, pirating helped artists more than stuff like Spotify ever did.
Aside from the legacy labels, the current industry is riddled with third party playlist scams, bogus online PR reps, and companies that want you to pay for advertisement to inflate your content with bots.. Independent is still the way to be. STAY FREE!!!🤘❤️
Labels have always had a very one-sided relationship with artists. I read three books about the industry in the late 90's early 2000's and remember being super disillusioned with how it worked. But even if a newly "discovered" act got a crappy deal, the labels didn't touch merchandising and endorsement deals. That's what was recommended artists fight to keep to themselves to make money from their work.
Napster didn't almost kill the industry, the industry's refusal to adapt and reform almost killed it. The tech industries saw the opportunity and took over.
The labels then used their power to insert themselves between the artist and the distributer to suck as much money as they could from both.
They came up with and standardized the 360 deals which dips into every single revenue stream an artists has.
Whereas before you may never see a dime from mechanical or publishing royalties because your crappy 10 points from you contract was never going to catch up to the ever growing advance debt, after havimg to cover all the bullcrap "expenses" the label "incurred" like loss of inventory, promotional costs, etc, you could count on the money from your merch table, and being featured in an Earnie Ball string ad in a Sweetwater catalog. Now that same shitty 10% cut deal applies to all of those. Even if the label didn't move a finger to generate money from it.
Record Label business model has always been abusive, and it's only gotten worse.
Artists I know that are signed to major labels can only make money from their own T-Shit company that can't have any obvious affiliation to their band to keep the label's greedy tentacles off it.
I feel the music industry doesn't "help" artists break out. They are gate keepers. They own the gates. They always have. They wield their power to subjugate every player in the industry. You have to basically accept becoming their indentured servant for passage through the gate and they try to destroy you if you defy them (30 Seconds to Mars vs EMI for example).
It is the only fully legal (and glamorized) model of indentured servitude in modern existence. It shouldn't be this way. Especially when the music industry no longer does any significant distribution of their own anymore that contributes to the majority of their revenue.
There are some artists that are trying to come up with some interesting models to help independent artists make a living from their music and I hope some of these work out. I just think a talented artist that didn't start out with an advantage shouldn't have to chose between being famous and broke, or remaining in the underground forever to not have to give up all the fruits of their labor to a label.
I’ve always wanted a breakdown on how artists get paid (or kinda get paid) by streaming services for years. Thanks for making it simple to understand.
Fuck major record labels tho!
Hot take: TH-cam Music is better than Spotify
I like Spotify because I can freely rapidly discover new songs and artists and just freely listen to things and it gives me new artists to look to into. And some people like me (young) cannot personally pay for things. And I love just rapidly discovering new music
Took me awhile to make a really good living off of Spotify but it’s super doable! Just gotta keep working and promote the right way
Oh God, can you imagine if each major label decides to release their own streaming service for their own catalog and pulls out of Spotify? 🙄🙄🙄 Just like it's happening with Netflix and Disney+, HBOMAX, etc
Good point.
From a marketer's perspective, rising the subscription price is most probably not a viable idea for Spotify.
Firstly right now the main players in the streaming industry all charge the same monthly flat fee; Therefore, one player cannot rise its price without pricing itself out of the game. At best, the platforms can diversify themselves by adding exclusive products and/or services and charging premiums for those so they can finance their core service (music streaming).
Secondly, we need to consider the consumer's price elasticity and I'd assume the price to be pretty inelastic. On the one hand, users are already used to one standard price across the industry ($10 in Canada). On the other hand, consumers always have other alternatives such as going back to pirating which has never been so easy with tools such as VPNs and torrent software.
Considering the current economic context including the highest inflation in the past 40 years and the prediction for an imminent recession, rising prices right now would be playing with the fire because spending on entertainment is usually the first account in the budget to be reduced when households are struggling financially. Artists ought to expect an even tougher time once the U.S. joined by Canada join other OECD countries into recession.
On another note, although the technological revolution had led to the democratization of the industry by allowing self-production and self-promotion, it also shattered the entry barriers of the industry-leading to the saturation of the music market. Therefore, artists are facing more competition than ever both from inside their own industry and from substitutes from connex industries such as movie streaming, podcast streaming, Tik Tok streaming, video game streaming, video game playing, etc. Indeed, there is no short supply of alternatives for entertainment in the modern infobesity which is the Internet.
Hence, musicians need to stop thinking about their music as their sole product offering. For instance, they must add products such as promotional goodies to be sold on their e-commerce website because people can naturally more easily attribute value to physical goods than digital ones. Additionally, selling branded items such as t-shirts and bennies is also a free advertisement for the band. Musicians, let your fan be your best brand ambassadors!
Furthermore, musicians must stop thinking solely about their brand revolving solely around their music offering and put much thought into their "human brand". They must think about how they, as artists, and as human beings, are part of their global offering and leverage those socio-affective links with their fan base. Artists need to be accessible and establish a dialog, notably through social media, with their fans. This allows them not only to get socio-financing but also to sell high-end products and services to their best patrons. For example, the artists can offer exclusive interviews or private guitar lessons through video conferencing.
Finally, although artists might be better off, in some cases, without labels, the reality remains that selling music is nevertheless a commercial endeavor in a very competitive and volatile market. Independent artists need to be willing to invest in professional services such as those of graphic designers, marketing firms, accountants, lawyers, etc. if they want to be able to be profitable. More importantly, still, the artists themselves must think of themselves as full-fledged entrepreneurs and act consequently notably by getting business mentoring and professional training (e.g. attending a minor/certificate in administration or marketing).
Well said!
Hey don’t forget 8-tracks 😂
Spotify isn't going anywhere. The industry has to adapt. I wish I could remember who said it - "You have to go where the fans are. Not where they **were*, not where you *want them to be,** but where they are." Spotify is where the fans are. Personally, I think/hope we are already seeing a decline in label power. A lot of artists are expected to not only make all of their own music, but market it entirely on their own, too. Going viral on TikTok is far more important than getting played on the radio. I feel like TH-cam had a rapid version of that happen with the decline of MCNs, with a lot of creators going "what the hell are you doing for me, exactly?" MCNs all but disappeared over the span of just a few years.
Glad you made this video and made it easy to understand. I thought it was more common knowledge that record labels get paid, not artists but apparently not
You’re right that the real answer is we gotta hold the labels accountable and support independent artists to make not being signed a more viable option. We gotta change the system. Until the system changes though, if people like a band (especially a smaller band) they should buy their merch, buy their music on bandcamp (and artists, put your music on bandcamp please! Let me pay you!), go see them live, etc.
so the problem isn't spotify but record labels
I have one good advice to support artists even more
We use Spotify etc but not all the time, If you are watching something on youtube just play some music on Spotify but turn down the volume, you will watch your content and support musicians at the same time
One of the areas you didn't cover is that the model of money distribution from Spotify favors big artists and kills small niche genres. E.g. I listen to a small variety of independent artists only, but the get only few thousand streams, and Drake or whoever else gets millions. From the 10 bucks I paid for my subscription most will go to Drake who I don't even listen, that makes me sad:( that's why we should support our favorite artists by buying their albums directly.
Hey there I wanted to let you know I agree. I am an independent artist and I steered away from Spotify for this reason. The infrastructure of Spotify is it to support the small artists who need recognition and who are just trying to make a living. They support the already super rich famous superstars only. That’s sad I agree. Question for you. Do you think independent artist should sell CDs for their fans to buy or a digital download. This is because you said you’d rather buy the albums directly from them which is awesome and I agree with that but how. How would you want to buy it what format would you wanna use. Let me know thanks. Also if you want to your original Pop music from an independent artist I have that on my channel sorry I meant to say here original Pop music sorry
@@lillysummeroriginals1213 Usually I buy digital music on Bandcamp. I'm not a fan of CDs. And then listen to it on Spotify, as it's still the most convenient tool.
@@pavelshchors OK thank you so much that makes sense. If you want to hear original Pop music for everyone of all ages I have it on my channel. Thanks again and have a great day
I signed a wildly predatory recording contract and don't make any money, why did Spotify do this to me???? 😭
I'm having Spotify problems! LOL EVERYONE is watching my Official Music Videos, but they are NOT going to Spotify!!!
My complete unwillingness to do any sort of promotion has made finding an audience difficult, but the few folks who have found my stuff have come from playlists folks have made on Spotify.
I would add that the Spotify featured playlists have a really abstruse process for submission, and communication about it is super weak. One thing Spotify could do to help independent artists is find easier, clearer ways to promote smaller artists through playlists, spotlights, etc.
I agree mate, I have the same problem
at this point if I see someone who's music i enjoy out in the wild I'm just going to hand them cash
I think there is one important detail you did not mention that is relevant. As far as I understand it, there are sort of "bonuses" for music owners with a lot of streams, so a label that has multiple artists will get paid more per stream than an artist that publishes directly
And you know they worked out better deals with the labels who own the Beatles, and artists like Taylor Swift in order to even get them on the platform.
One of my tracks has 13,236 plays. I have no label. Been paid $38.38 for that. So, 0.0028 per play. The definitely pay on a curve. If you are Drake, they pay more than what they pay me. Just a boots on the ground look for y'all.
We are an independent band who’s gain over 425,795 streams with no royalty splits owning 100% of our music and Spotify has paid us $92.15. Comes out to about $0.0002 a stream.
I still use Spotify some, but ever since Snoop Dogg pulled Death Row's catalogue from the streaming services, I've gone back to buying CD's. Honestly, nothing beats the ability to actually own the music and listen to it whenever you want. Plus, you can still rip the CD's and don't have to worry about artists or labels pulling the music from streaming.
3:47 I was in the original 350k that Metallica banned for using Napster back in 1999. I STILL have them downloaded songs though stored on my Amazon music lol, not that it matters now.
a few things here that have nothing to do with labels and I think deserve to mentioned:
-you actually pay to get your music on spotify etc. Depending on the provider you chose, that's 20-50 Dollar per year. Some of them take % of your generated income, too
-the amount of streams used as examples here (100 million, tens of thousands of monthly listeners) is not even remotely attainable for the vast majority of independent artists. Even unsigned bands with a big name in a specific scene, for example Death Metal, usually have no more than tens of thousand plays. In most cases, it's far far less than that
-in order to be discovered, artists usually have to pay to get into playlists. I'm not talking about the huge, spotify-generated lists here. But getting into, let's say, a Death Metal playlist with 5000 listeneres will cost you at least 200 Dollars per month. Just for a slim chance of getting discovered. And without a big marketing machine behind you, that's literally your only chance of people getting to know you
-playlists and the algorithm also change songwriting and production a lot. Basically, the more "unique" your sound is, the less spotify can sort you into it's automated recommendations or playlists. Ever asked yourself why, for example, every current Deathcore band is produced in the exact same way? That's why. Sticking out is literally bad for buisiness here. Plus, long songs, an intro etc are more likely to be skipped, causing many artists to abandon that.
Every unsigned band I talk to or connect to via my own band, no matter which country they are from, how long they are active or how much they invest says the same: They NEVER made more money via streaming then what they spent on it alone. Not even close. And I know no one who expects to actually get money from spotify and co.
The thing some people don't get is that labels are basically pointless unless you are extremely extremely broke and cant afford ANYTHING.
You can build a solid marketing plan for 30 bucks a month. If your in a band and the cost is split its 5 or 6 bucks per person. Thats a pack of smokes or a joint like, theres no reason each member can't come up with 5 bucks. Pretty much guarantees you'll always have traction and new people listening to you everyday and also helps lighten the load on manual marketing which is a big reason people just give up. Views with that budget can range from about 2k minimum a month but is usually closer to 5 to 10k, sometimes more if your campaign is set up well. Tom macdonald is one example of an artist who used this strategy in his early days to its full potential. Not really a fan of his but the guy is very smart and he knows how to market. People think you need to spend thousands on marketing/advertising when its way more beneficial to spend way less money and spend more time making an ad that will grab peoples attention. You can spend 100 bucks, have a crappy ad and get 10k views or spend 30 bucks make a good ad and get the same results. The ad itself is the most important thing not how much you spend pushing it. If its a good ad and your music is good it'll push itself.
Merch can be made in bulk and most towns/cities have local shops who make shirts and they will usually charge less than other custom tshirt places online. This is for examples sake but lets say you spend 300 to get shirts made, you get 50 shirts and you charge 20 a piece, thats 1000 bucks, 1k - 300 is 700 profit, go buy more shirts with 300 of that 700 and the 400 extra is pure profit for a van, gear, whatever. Its hard to sell that many shirts usually but thats just the general idea of how you should be selling merch. Same concept can be applied to wristbands or really just about any merch related items you can think of. If you have ZERO money and want merch anyway you can make a spreadshirt shop for FREE, makes tons of products, build your own webstore, they handle all sales, make all the products, distribution, etc. You will make less with this option overall but you can't beat a free online merch store esp with a small or nonexistent budget. Heck its even just a good tool to use to get an idea of what your graphic/logo may look like on a shirt, mug, etc. Its a great tool!
Music distribution especially just for the digital stuff costs very very little when you use distrokid or tunecore and they put it on all the platforms for you. Cds distribution is a bit more complicated but the digital stuff is EASY. my band paid roughly 20 bucks for the year to host our songs on all the major streaming services. They handle and payout all your royalities as well. You fill out the online forms, submit your tunes, pay the money and they do the rest basically. Its more than worth it.
Lets say you start a band and have a few songs and very little money. Keep in mind in order to get your first ad setup for the month, to get your songs on all streaming services, and to build a online merch store its only gonna cost around 50 to 80 bucks altogether to get that all started at the very basic starter level. Which isn't that bad split up between 4 or 5 people. Guys, this stuff is doable!!!!
Please do not sign to a label. When you sign to a label you are giving your money away for things that you can do yourself. On top of that you signing a deal indirectly keeps the toxic cycle going. We as artists have more power and control then ever, we do not need labels anymore. They need you, not they other way around.
I know this was long winded but im really passionate about this topic. Take it from me, you do not want to sign a label deal.
There are 3rd party companies for EVERYTHING that you will need to have a successful band, the difference is these companies won't take most of your money.
Just do your research and invest your time to learn and try new things. This stuff isn't as overwhelming as you'd think.
Hope this reaches someone 🙏
I think the best of both worlds is supporting directly the bands that you love. As a christian metalhead, the bands I listen to the most are really small so even though I mainly listen to them on spotify, I also buy cds for my car and probably go bandcamp when I'll get out of school
You have to prove that your product works. Once you are able to do that… you have the upper hand in negotiating tables. It’s really the only sensible way moving forward. I’m a huge believer in this…
Exactly
This is exactly why I wouldn't even look at a major contract (if I even have the luxury to do so).
my whole life, the story has been "artists aren't getting paid by the music industry." when cassettes and cds were introduced, it was "record companies are grabbing all the money people are shelling out for these new formats and not paying the artists" just like now with streaming. but there's more music than ever, and some musicians are turning into billionaires. at a certain point, it's just another fight among people wealthier than me. really, artists need to suck it up and hire lawyers. they're super expensive and not fun to be around (i used to be one) but we've seen the alternative now for decades: the labels have lawyers already, and you will be screwed if you don't too.
We are tiny. We have one track on an Editorial playlist. Making about $30 to $40 a month, mostly from Spotify streams.
Hopefully the indie solution starts becoming the norm. With improving technology, it becomes easier and easier for people to record music at their home, and with physical mediums being *less* in demand, there's no need for people to hire labels to distribute. And even if you did want to put out albums on CDs and the like, its certainly easier than ever to partner with an online shipping store on your own and only splitting with them if the demand is there.
Sure, this all means that music is and has become oversatured in a way, but that certainly shouldn't discourage you creative souls, and hopefully the truly great music gets to shine
Also those smaller artists are monetizing their music in ways that they couldn't before Spotify. Before it was practically giving it away to get noticed, so more people are able to get into the business. A little income through streams can be better than not having any income income at all
Streaming is only good to get your band known. You would need to sell merchandise or autographed CD's and do tours to make any serious money.
If you want to support a band, see them live and buy some merch at the show. The band makes a much larger cut from those sales. A good portion of my music collection I have gotten by purchasing the CDs at the shows from the band merch booth (yes, I buy and collect CDs, even though I listen to streaming music mostly, it's just my thing).
Most artists today do not have a label, yet many have thousands of plays. Spotify gets to use our likeness and popularity to earn revenue. However an artist should not complain about the royalty rate if they know the system yet agree to the terms.
Of course you also have to watch out if you buy merch at shows. Because a chunk of that money doesn't go to the band either lol
This is why I've always viewed Spotify as a necessary evil. It came as a way to help the music industry adapt to the internet age, and along with being one of the largest income sources for artists, it offers lots of exposure for them, but the catch is the rate at which artists are paid per stream. Basically the same view I have of record labels, that they offer a lot for artists in terms of representation and assistance, with the catch being they take a large cut of the music's earnings.
I like summing this up with a line from NateWantsToBattle's song "Phantom": "I'm not what you want, but I'm exactly what you need, take a bite and feed, your satisfaction guaranteed"
Your description of Spotify and the record labels are EXACTLY why you can hear Taylor Swift's full catalog on all streaming services now, I hate her, but damn, by re-recording those songs, she cuts the middle man out. That's why it makes more sense than even to be an independent artist, without a label. At this point, major labels are a cog in the expression of music.