Errata: Yes, I slipped up in editing my audio and let a double-negative through. But you know what I mean! :-) And at about 3:43 I said "pseudo unbalanced." Of course, I meant "pseudo balanced." Sorry for any confusion. And by the way, a few 1980's Sony turntables have a ground wire that connects to the shield (ground) of one of the RCA plugs at the preamp end of the cable. This will work just as well as using the separately-connected ground wire, and I wish all turntables came that way. It'd be a lot easier!
Hi Scott. Wonder if you could help me. Just received a connector that connects my turntable that has two jacks with an old amplifier, that has 5 pin jack. There is a cracking in left speaker, and same one does not produce a sound. (It is working with anything else). Those two jacks come with a ground connector, but nowhere to connect it on my amplifier. Wonder if I could, would that solve the problem? Thanks!
@@sextempiric7137 all right, let me see if I understand this. You have an adapter cable, that connects a turntable with RCA jacks, to an amplifier that uses a din jack. If I'm right about that, then the noise you're hearing would not be solved by having a ground connector, although you really do need one. What the ground connector would solve is a hum problem. The noise you're hearing makes me think that you have an intermittent connection either at the phono cartridge, or at the wires that connect it to the head shell, or where the head shell connects to the tone arm, assuming that your turntable has a removable head shell. I wish you luck in trouble shooting it.
That was a lot of information I did not know. You explained it in such a way that I actually understand most of what you’re talking about. The rest of it it’s not due to your explanation but my lack of education. Thanks
Because output from phono cartridges is so low that phono stages must provide far more gain... so that noise gets amplified many times greater than a line stage.
This issue becomes even more critical for those using a low output MC (moving coil) cartridge where only 0.4 mv of signal gets amplified with over 60 dB of gain.
True, but the lower impedance of MC carts and preamps helps somewhat with that. What really matters in MC hookups is the quality of the connections. The cables themselves are not much of an issue, but the RCA plugs and jacks need to make perfect connections due to the low signal levels and impedances.
It's been shown that MC cartridges actually have higher output than typical moving magnet cartridge (volts x amps = watts) but that higher output takes the form of high current and low voltage. Since conventional phono stages amplify voltage they don't work so well for MC cartridges which is why transformers were once popular to convert current into a usefully high voltage so that standard MM preamps could provide adequate gain.
Thanks for that information. I've been tinkering with some old 1219 and 1019 Duals lately, servicing them trying to get them running well etc. It looks like I'm going to be having to replace some RCA lines which led me to this video. These duals don't have a separate ground wire to connect to amp or phono amp. I'm thinking I should add one. I'm learning to solder as I go and get the idea of the RCA lines have a ground for L and R built in. But to add a separate stand alone ground wire that I'll connect to the amp what do I solder it to in the turntable? Do I just go to part of of the metal frame and connect it there or is there a specific place it needs to be connected to? Thanks for any info you can offer me on this.
Hi, Elliott. You're right, those two tables have no ground wires, and while adding a ground wire is simple, it'll only make things worse if you don't isolate the tonearm wiring from the chassis ground at the same time (you'll end up with a ground loop). Those original ground connections, between the tonearm wiring and the chassis ground, are under the shield where the muting switch is. You'll want to disconnect the chassis ground connections to the muting switch, while still leaving the muting switch connected to the tonearm wiring. Then just add a one-meter or so length of 18 or 20-gauge wire, with a soldered or crimped on spade connector on each end, under the screw that holds the shield in place. This will be your new ground. Be careful of the tonearm wires, they're fragile and short. You can go to vinylengine dot com and sign up for free, then you can download the service manuals for these tables. The manuals will be a great help if you don't have them. --Scott.
@@ScottGrammer Great information! I never would have know to do that had I not commented here! Thank you so much. I do have the manuals and will be looking them over before I do anything. But if I'm not getting any hum would I be better off just leaving them alone, and only doing this if the problem starts down the road? Does the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" saying apply here or should I be proactive?
I have a bSr record changer that has 4 connections for power - black, white, red, green. I don’t have a chord so I’m wanting to wire it with a regular 120 vac cable. How do those wires get connected? I know the green is the ground - but then there are three. One looks like it goes through a switch. Can you help?
My suggestion would be to go to the vinyl engine website, vinylengine dot com, and see if they have a service manual for your model of BSR turntable. If they do, the service manual will tell you which of the four wires do what. If you're not comfortable reading schematics, it might be better to have a professional wire it.
How is the proper connection for the earth/ground? I’ve got an SL-1210 mk II hooked to a DBX BX-3/CX-3 combo all two prong plugs. Should all chassis be grounded directly to the wall socket screw or all to the pre-amp and a single wire to the wall?
Ideally, only one component in a home audio system should be grounded at the wall, usually the amplifier. In many vintage systems, no component is grounded at the wall, and that's perfectly fine. What you want to avoid is having more than one path to the ground at the wall, because this will cause a ground loop, and ground loops cause hum. And the turntable should be the ONLY component with a separate ground wire going to the preamp, amp, or receiver. If your other components have ground terminals, leave them disconnected.
Rega TTs don't have a separate ground wire either. Apparently they are 'grounded' at the TT to the shield of the left channel cable. The metal of the arm pivot and chassis is easily accessible underneath on some of Regas turntables (I have Planar 3) so I'm thinking to connect a wire from here to the ground terminal on my amp. Will this be okay and effective?
You would need to disconnect the internal chassis ground from the left channel ground, or else you'll create a ground loop, which will actually make matters worse. The idea is to have only ONE path between the chassis of the turntable (and tonearm) and the ground connection on your preamp.
Yes, but it will take rewiring the tonearm wiring inside the unit. Right now, the ground of the tonearm and cartridge headshell are connected to the audio grounds. This will have to be disconnected and a separate ground wire added.
Thank you for producing clear and concise videos for the regular guy (like me) to understand. So, if I'm understanding correctly, the ground wire is actually grounding the tonearm/phono cartridge, rather than the turntable itself. Is that right?
Your welcome, and thanks for the kind words. The ground wire on a turntable is usually connected to the tonearm and the chassis of the turntable. It does not connect the outputs of the cartridge. As for the shell or shield of the phono cartridge, that depends on the brand of the cartridge. For some, like Shure and Audio Technica, the shell of the cartridge is connected to the shield of one of the audio cables. For others, like Stanton and Pickering, the shell is connected to the tonearm through the screws that mount the cartridge to the headshell. The important thing is that there be no direct connection between the audio wiring and the tonearm/chassis, as this separation is what creates the pseudo-balanced system that keeps hum to a minimum. Those turntables with no ground wire do just this, and that's why so many of them suffer from hum.
I have a JVC AL-F350 model that I can hear is sound but when I connect it to my soundbar is almost not sound, do you have an idea why?, one thing sure is the ground cable is not connected, should I?
Your JVC turntable needs a phono preamp to work with a sound bar. You can find basic phono preamps for about $25, and yes, you'll need to connect the ground wire to the preamp when you get one.
hello my friend can you help me? I'm having problems with my vinyl playing record. the speaker keeps shifting back and forth at high volumes. the ground is correct. I replaced the cable with a new one. the right and left wires are correct. the device is far from the boxes. already reviewed the cables. I can't solve it. my setap devices are: amplifier pioneer elite a 20, and the vinyl record player is technics slq 2. voltage 120v. Thank you very much
When you say that the speaker keeps shifting back and forth at high volumes, do you mean that the woofer cone is moving back and forth a lot, and not in time with the music? If so, you're probably experiencing low-frequency feedback. Try taking the dust cover completely off the turntable, and also make sure the turntable is sitting on a firm, heavy support. The Elite A20 has no subsonic (infrasonic) filter, but you might try turning off the loudness button if it's turned on, and reduce the bass control setting a bit. If either of these seems to cure the issue, then feedback is almost certainly the problem. There is another possibility, and that is that you have a warped record. Warped records can send massive low-frequency bursts through the amplifier, and this can cause what you're describing. Does it happen with every record you play, or just one or two? Hope this helps, Scott.
@@ScottGrammer yes, it occurs on all discs, but I think that might be the problem. when I turn on the bass, loudnes, the vibration occurs with greater intensity. I've already tested it by moving the device around, the same thing happens, measuring the wires of the arm with a multimeter, ok. already replace the condensers with one of greater capacity. it could even be the lack of subsonic filter. thank you very much, success.
@@sidneyalves1556 If you listen really loud, turn up the bass, and engage the loudness control, You are very likely to have this problem. Replacing electronic parts will not help. It's also aggravated by having the turntable too close to, or on the same cabinet or shelf as the speakers.
Hi, Scott. I own a Dual 1219 and just had a custom built tube integrated amp. There is a phono amp built into the amp. When I switch to Phono switch on the front, I can hear a hum or buzz (can't tell which one). When I switch to 1 or 2 on the front there is no hum. My question is do I need a ground wire going from the chassis to the ground wire (3-way) binding post on the back of amp to eliminate the hum? Thanks.
Hi, Rich. Yes, you'll need that ground wire. The Dual should have one from the factory, but if not, you can attach a length of 18 or 20-gauge insulated wire to the screw on the underside of the chassis where the strain relief for the AC cord is. The other end of this wire connects to the ground on your amp. The ground wire should be about the same length as your RCA cables.
@@ScottGrammer I don’t see that screw and I’m not too handy. I’m not sure I see the screw, but I’ll look again. Can I buy the wire at Home Depot? Can I attach the bare wire to the back of the ground wire binding post on the back of the amp? Thanks
@@richwidick4648 You may want to have to have a ground wire professionally installed on your turntable. It's a simple matter for a pro tech, and should not take more than a few minutes. Yes, you can get the wire at Home Depot, but if you're going to have a pro do it, he or she should have suitable wire in stock. All you need is three or four feet of 18-22 gauge insulated wire.
@@ScottGrammer Good suggestion and that’s what I will do. I really appreciate your quick reply and help. Looking forward to watching other videos from you. Have a great Holiday!!
Hi Scott, thanks for your video. I have 2 Klipsch speakers that have phono inputs and I want to connect both of them to a turntable, so I can have a stereo setup. In other words, the left cable from the turntable would go to the left speaker and the right cable would go to the right speaker. Do I have to split the ground cable into 2 separate cables so that each speaker receives a ground? Or is it ok to just install the ground cable to just one of the speakers?
Hi. Are you sure those Klipsch speakers have actual phono preamps in them, or are they merely line level inputs? Most powered speakers only have line level inputs, which will not work connected directly to a turntable. I have seen one pair of powered speakers with an actual phono preamp, but in that case both inputs (and all the electronics, as well as the phono ground terminal) were in one speaker, and the other speaker connected to the main one with a simple cable. What is the model number of those speakers? The Fives, which do have phono preamps, have both inputs on one speaker, with the other connected by an umbilical cable.
@@ScottGrammer Thanks for responding! The model that I have is the Klipsch One II. It is designed to connect the turntable to only one speaker, since it has a Left & Right input. However, since it has the left & right drivers integrated in such a small enclosure, I would like to use two separate Klipsch One II speakers to increase the stereo separation. So, that's why I would like to use one turntable for 2 of these speakers and needed to know how to deal with the ground cable.
@@Guachum in that case you would need to connect the ground wire to both speakers. What concerns me is that you could very easily create a ground Loop which could cause the very hum you are trying not to cause.
@@Guachum If I may make a suggestion, use an inexpensive external phono preamp and connect your turntable to it. Since the One uses 3.5mm inputs, you'd need two cables, each with an RCA plug on one end , wired to both the tip and ring (that is, the center conductor is wired to both tip and ring, while the shield connects to the sleeve as usual) of a stereo 3.5mm plug on the other end. These two cables could then be run between the outputs of the phono preamp and the line inputs of the Klipsch speakers. Since this would be a line-level signal, no ground would be needed, and the cables could be up to 20 feet long with no problems. By the way, the One does not have a phono preamp built into it.
Does it matter if the ground wire is connected between the washer and ground screw? Or should the washer and screw be over the ground wire? Thx in advance 😊
Could you elaborate on your explanation on balanced connection? In my opinion the hot pin carries the signal, cold pin carries a phase inverted copy of the signal and they bot use the third pin as a common ground reference.
The answer might be a bit cumbersome for a reply to a comment, but here goes! What you have described is an "electronically balanced" connection, something that arose in the early 1970's as audio transformers were becoming unpopular, and op-amps had become a way of life for audio designers because they were cheap and simple and very useful. An unbalanced (signal and ground) connection was replicated with an inverting, unity-gain amplifier, usually made with an op-amp, and so now you had exactly what you describe: hot (non-inverted signal), cold (inverted signal), and ground. While this is a perfectly valid balanced connection, provided it goes to a balanced input that makes equal use of both phases (hot and cold), it is not what a balanced connection was supposed to be. Originally, transformers were used at each end of a balanced connection. The audio flowed between transformer windings on each end of the cable, and there was NO ground reference for the audio - only the shield of the cable was grounded. In fact, back in the days of analog landlines, telephone wires moved audio for miles, on the same utility poles that carried AC power, with little hum problem, by using a transformer-balanced system with NO shield at all! This true balanced connection is often called a "floating" balanced circuit. The most easily-noticed difference between electronically balanced and true balanced (floating) connections is that while with a modern, electronically-balanced signal, you can dispense with one of the phases and have an unbalanced signal (albeit 6dB quieter), ready to use, because there is a ground reference for the audio. True balanced circuits - using transformers - don't work like that. You have to intentionally ground one phase, and only then will you have an unbalanced connection, and this time, without the 6dB loss that converting an electronically balanced signal suffers. Note that the introduction of phantom power to balanced mic lines by Neumann in 1966 rendered transformer balanced connections using phantom power non-floating. Now, as regards pseudo-balanced connections, like phono preamps have, these are actually unbalanced, because the "cold" connection is connected to ground at the phono preamp, But the shield of the audio cables does not connect to the chassis or tonearm of the turntable. It only connects to the coils of the phono cartridge. The chassis ground connection is made with a separate ground wire, so that any hum current that might flow between the turntable chassis and the preamp does not flow on the audio cable shield, and so cannot be easily induced into the "hot" connection carrying the music. I hope this helps.
@@ScottGrammer Thanks a lot for the precise answer, really appreciate it! Gives me a few Keywords to read on further and hopefully being able to understand this properly:)
Also, as far as an antenna on my receiver is it better to hook up 300 ohm with a dipole or 75 ohm with coax. And is the 75 ohm only for outside antenna
As for which is better, 300-ohm twinlead or 75-ohm coax, it depends on what you're connecting and how the cable will be run. Generally 75-ohm coax is better because it provided better interference rejection and because it can be run near metal items (like aluminum siding) without a problem. Twinlead should be kept at least a foot away from metal or from outdoor surfaces that can get wet from rain, as being close to conductors will upset the impedance of the cable. BUT - good quality twinlead, properly installed, has less signal loss than coax, so if your antenna is 100 feet or more away from your tuner, twinlead might be better. If you're using an indoor dipole, just use whichever is most convenient, as the length of the cable run is not long enough to cause significant losses with either type. Do avoid using "balun" adapters if you can, as these can lose up to half your signal. If your antenna has a 75 ohm output, use coax and connect it to the 75 ohm input on your tuner. If your antenna uses twinlead, then just use twinlead and connect it to the 300 ohm input on your tuner.
@@sandracohen8481 No, I didn't get a picture, if you emailed one to me. But I'm familiar with the 3600. You can connect coax to it if the coax does not have a plug on the end. You'll need to strip the end of the coax and separate the shield and center conductor. On the rear of your 3600, there are four screw terminals for antennas. The one on the right is for AM, ignore it. Second from the right is ground, this is where you connect the shield of the coax. Third from the right is the 75 ohm terminal, this is where you connect the center conductor of the coax.
@@sandracohen8481 You can make a simple 75-ohm dipole by connecting the other end of the coax to two lengths of plain wire, each about 31 inches long. Arrange the coax and the two lengths of wire into a "T" shape, perhaps taped or tacked to a wall, with the coax going straight down for at least three feet. A dipole such as this is bi-directional, and will be best placed on a wall that faces the radio stations you want to receive.
I can only assume you mean one of the newer USB-equipped turntables, and that you will be connecting it only to a computer. In that case, no you do not need to ground it.
@@ScottGrammer sorry I thought you were the guy that sells audio equipment in the back of red bank thrift store. I must be mistaken. I bought an onkyo DVD player a while back to use as a CD player but since gotten a CD player for my stack but still using the DVD player in my setup. Currently seeking a turntable to complete my setup.
@@jasoneustice8034 I do work out of the back of the Red Bank Thrift Store, however, the DVD player you bought, though you may have talked to me about it, was actually sold by the thrift store.
@@ScottGrammer ok I understand. If you run across a black vintage onkyo turntable let me know I am seeking one. If I find one that need repairs I will buy it and let you know.:)
@@jasoneustice8034 Check the "about" page of this channel and you'll find my email address. Email me and I can give you some contact info of a couple of people who might have such a turntable.
I'm a firm believer in "if it works, don't fix it." So, if the Teac doesn't need a ground wire, so much the better! What model Teac is it, if you don't mind?
Usually, you don't want cables from a turntable being longer than six feet (about 2M) for that very reason. Also, longer cables have higher capacitance, and due to the inductive source impedance of the phono cartridge and the relatively high overall impedance, the extra capacitance will reduce the high frequency response. If you must have the turntable away from the rest of the system, invest in an outboard phono preamp, and keep it near the turntable. Then run long cables from it to an auxiliary input on the stereo.
@@ScottGrammer thank you, I do plan on purchasing a shiit mani pre-amp in near future, hopefully that will work, thank you again for your quick response Happy New Year!!🤔👍
I looked that model up and downloaded the owner's manual. Sure enough, it was never provided with a ground wire. That means it has internal grounding, which is not a good idea with turntables. It works, but not very well. It is a compromise, intended to make the turntable easier to connect, at the expense of making it more susceptible to hum. Thorens made some units like that, and then immediately released service bulletins to their service centers, explaining how to undo the internal grounding and add a proper ground wire, after hundreds of hum complaints from purchasers of those turntables.
@@ScottGrammer Never had a single issue with hum, whether I had it connected to a Luxman LV-111 or a Carver C-2 preamplifier and Carver M-400 amplifier.
True, it's not. But it's perhaps easier for the student to understand than "phase one and phase two," or others terms of art. The only important thing is to decide on a connection convention, and stick with it throughout a system. And of course, to be aware of any non-compliant devices in the chain.
Well, should this video tell the truth, the question then is why all the turntables equipped with the DIN 5 pin connector are essentially wired the bad way...
They're not. DIN phono cables use five connections: Two for the left channel audio, two for the right channel audio, and the last (the middle pin in the DIN plug) is chassis ground. BTW, nice channel you have! I have subscribed to it. Further, DIN cables can support true balanced connections, but you must disconnect the shell ground found on most phono cartridges and connect the shell (if there is one) directly to the tonearm shield or ground wire. And of course, you'll want to replace the RCA plugs with XLR's or some other connector capable of balanced operation.
Fat man got to eat 😂😂😂😂 cool bro you funny dude some DJ that use technic 1200 mk 2 are be grounding off I want to do that to mine but I never heard one before see how it sound if I put it loud with real vinyl record oh maybe they using laptop they don't have to use real record lp they use sorato scratch that you could hook up your turntable into it so I could use my laptop with million of music n I could easy mix oh scratch it becomes digital but with real vinyl DJ I don't know how it will sound that why I have not done it to mine technic 1200 mk 2 can you do a video to see how a turntable sound with real vinyl record when play loud with the turntable groundings off thank you like your video you said it does make distortion n hum sound still anyway hope you make a video as about this grounding turntable check it out how it sound with real vinyl at a higher level when I put the music loud if is ok with real vinyl
I'm sorry to hear that. The tldr is this. Magnetic phono preamps are way more sensitive to hum than normal line level inputs and so they have to have a special grounding scheme.
Errata: Yes, I slipped up in editing my audio and let a double-negative through. But you know what I mean! :-) And at about 3:43 I said "pseudo unbalanced." Of course, I meant "pseudo balanced." Sorry for any confusion. And by the way, a few 1980's Sony turntables have a ground wire that connects to the shield (ground) of one of the RCA plugs at the preamp end of the cable. This will work just as well as using the separately-connected ground wire, and I wish all turntables came that way. It'd be a lot easier!
Hi Scott. Wonder if you could help me. Just received a connector that connects my turntable that has two jacks with an old amplifier, that has 5 pin jack. There is a cracking in left speaker, and same one does not produce a sound. (It is working with anything else). Those two jacks come with a ground connector, but nowhere to connect it on my amplifier. Wonder if I could, would that solve the problem? Thanks!
@@sextempiric7137 all right, let me see if I understand this. You have an adapter cable, that connects a turntable with RCA jacks, to an amplifier that uses a din jack. If I'm right about that, then the noise you're hearing would not be solved by having a ground connector, although you really do need one. What the ground connector would solve is a hum problem. The noise you're hearing makes me think that you have an intermittent connection either at the phono cartridge, or at the wires that connect it to the head shell, or where the head shell connects to the tone arm, assuming that your turntable has a removable head shell. I wish you luck in trouble shooting it.
@@ScottGrammer Thanks, You're a gentleman!
@@sextempiric7137 Don't tell anybody! :-)
I got sherwood reciever it have no place to ground at
That was a lot of information I did not know. You explained it in such a way that I actually understand most of what you’re talking about. The rest of it it’s not due to your explanation but my lack of education. Thanks
Because output from phono cartridges is so low that phono stages must provide far more gain... so that noise gets amplified many times greater than a line stage.
Thank you! I learned something.👍
You're welcome. I'm glad to hear it.
This issue becomes even more critical for those using a low output MC (moving coil) cartridge where only 0.4 mv of signal gets amplified with over 60 dB of gain.
True, but the lower impedance of MC carts and preamps helps somewhat with that. What really matters in MC hookups is the quality of the connections. The cables themselves are not much of an issue, but the RCA plugs and jacks need to make perfect connections due to the low signal levels and impedances.
It's been shown that MC cartridges actually have higher output than typical moving magnet cartridge (volts x amps = watts) but that higher output takes the form of high current and low voltage. Since conventional phono stages amplify voltage they don't work so well for MC cartridges which is why transformers were once popular to convert current into a usefully high voltage so that standard MM preamps could provide adequate gain.
@@socksumi I still believe that a Transformer is the right way to do it.
Great video
Thanks!
thank you, exactly the explanation I was hoping for ♥
Glad to be of service.
Thanks for that information. I've been tinkering with some old 1219 and 1019 Duals lately, servicing them trying to get them running well etc. It looks like I'm going to be having to replace some RCA lines which led me to this video. These duals don't have a separate ground wire to connect to amp or phono amp. I'm thinking I should add one. I'm learning to solder as I go and get the idea of the RCA lines have a ground for L and R built in. But to add a separate stand alone ground wire that I'll connect to the amp what do I solder it to in the turntable? Do I just go to part of of the metal frame and connect it there or is there a specific place it needs to be connected to? Thanks for any info you can offer me on this.
Hi, Elliott. You're right, those two tables have no ground wires, and while adding a ground wire is simple, it'll only make things worse if you don't isolate the tonearm wiring from the chassis ground at the same time (you'll end up with a ground loop). Those original ground connections, between the tonearm wiring and the chassis ground, are under the shield where the muting switch is. You'll want to disconnect the chassis ground connections to the muting switch, while still leaving the muting switch connected to the tonearm wiring. Then just add a one-meter or so length of 18 or 20-gauge wire, with a soldered or crimped on spade connector on each end, under the screw that holds the shield in place. This will be your new ground. Be careful of the tonearm wires, they're fragile and short.
You can go to vinylengine dot com and sign up for free, then you can download the service manuals for these tables. The manuals will be a great help if you don't have them.
--Scott.
@@ScottGrammer Great information! I never would have know to do that had I not commented here! Thank you so much. I do have the manuals and will be looking them over before I do anything. But if I'm not getting any hum would I be better off just leaving them alone, and only doing this if the problem starts down the road? Does the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" saying apply here or should I be proactive?
@@elliottcrews4997 I'm a firm believer in the idea of if it works, don't fix it.
I have a bSr record changer that has 4 connections for power - black, white, red, green. I don’t have a chord so I’m wanting to wire it with a regular 120 vac cable. How do those wires get connected? I know the green is the ground - but then there are three. One looks like it goes through a switch. Can you help?
My suggestion would be to go to the vinyl engine website, vinylengine dot com, and see if they have a service manual for your model of BSR turntable. If they do, the service manual will tell you which of the four wires do what. If you're not comfortable reading schematics, it might be better to have a professional wire it.
How is the proper connection for the earth/ground? I’ve got an SL-1210 mk II hooked to a DBX BX-3/CX-3 combo all two prong plugs. Should all chassis be grounded directly to the wall socket screw or all to the pre-amp and a single wire to the wall?
Ideally, only one component in a home audio system should be grounded at the wall, usually the amplifier. In many vintage systems, no component is grounded at the wall, and that's perfectly fine. What you want to avoid is having more than one path to the ground at the wall, because this will cause a ground loop, and ground loops cause hum. And the turntable should be the ONLY component with a separate ground wire going to the preamp, amp, or receiver. If your other components have ground terminals, leave them disconnected.
Rega TTs don't have a separate ground wire either. Apparently they are 'grounded' at the TT to the shield of the left channel cable. The metal of the arm pivot and chassis is easily accessible underneath on some of Regas turntables (I have Planar 3) so I'm thinking to connect a wire from here to the ground terminal on my amp. Will this be okay and effective?
You would need to disconnect the internal chassis ground from the left channel ground, or else you'll create a ground loop, which will actually make matters worse. The idea is to have only ONE path between the chassis of the turntable (and tonearm) and the ground connection on your preamp.
@@ScottGrammer awesome, thanks
I have got a lot if hum with a Pioneer PLX-500 which is a DJ like turntable with no ground wire. Is it possible to add a separate ground wire?
Yes, but it will take rewiring the tonearm wiring inside the unit. Right now, the ground of the tonearm and cartridge headshell are connected to the audio grounds. This will have to be disconnected and a separate ground wire added.
Thank you for producing clear and concise videos for the regular guy (like me) to understand. So, if I'm understanding correctly, the ground wire is actually grounding the tonearm/phono cartridge, rather than the turntable itself. Is that right?
Your welcome, and thanks for the kind words. The ground wire on a turntable is usually connected to the tonearm and the chassis of the turntable. It does not connect the outputs of the cartridge. As for the shell or shield of the phono cartridge, that depends on the brand of the cartridge. For some, like Shure and Audio Technica, the shell of the cartridge is connected to the shield of one of the audio cables. For others, like Stanton and Pickering, the shell is connected to the tonearm through the screws that mount the cartridge to the headshell. The important thing is that there be no direct connection between the audio wiring and the tonearm/chassis, as this separation is what creates the pseudo-balanced system that keeps hum to a minimum. Those turntables with no ground wire do just this, and that's why so many of them suffer from hum.
I have a JVC AL-F350 model that I can hear is sound but when I connect it to my soundbar is almost not sound, do you have an idea why?, one thing sure is the ground cable is not connected, should I?
Your JVC turntable needs a phono preamp to work with a sound bar. You can find basic phono preamps for about $25, and yes, you'll need to connect the ground wire to the preamp when you get one.
hello my friend can you help me? I'm having problems with my vinyl playing record. the speaker keeps shifting back and forth at high volumes. the ground is correct. I replaced the cable with a new one. the right and left wires are correct. the device is far from the boxes. already reviewed the cables. I can't solve it. my setap devices are: amplifier pioneer elite a 20, and the vinyl record player is technics slq 2. voltage 120v. Thank you very much
When you say that the speaker keeps shifting back and forth at high volumes, do you mean that the woofer cone is moving back and forth a lot, and not in time with the music? If so, you're probably experiencing low-frequency feedback. Try taking the dust cover completely off the turntable, and also make sure the turntable is sitting on a firm, heavy support. The Elite A20 has no subsonic (infrasonic) filter, but you might try turning off the loudness button if it's turned on, and reduce the bass control setting a bit. If either of these seems to cure the issue, then feedback is almost certainly the problem.
There is another possibility, and that is that you have a warped record. Warped records can send massive low-frequency bursts through the amplifier, and this can cause what you're describing. Does it happen with every record you play, or just one or two?
Hope this helps,
Scott.
@@ScottGrammer yes, it occurs on all discs, but I think that might be the problem. when I turn on the bass, loudnes, the vibration occurs with greater intensity. I've already tested it by moving the device around, the same thing happens, measuring the wires of the arm with a multimeter, ok. already replace the condensers with one of greater capacity. it could even be the lack of subsonic filter. thank you very much, success.
@@sidneyalves1556 If you listen really loud, turn up the bass, and engage the loudness control, You are very likely to have this problem. Replacing electronic parts will not help. It's also aggravated by having the turntable too close to, or on the same cabinet or shelf as the speakers.
Hi, Scott. I own a Dual 1219 and just had a custom built tube integrated amp. There is a phono amp built into the amp. When I switch to Phono switch on the front, I can hear a hum or buzz (can't tell which one). When I switch to 1 or 2 on the front there is no hum. My question is do I need a ground wire going from the chassis to the ground wire (3-way) binding post on the back of amp to eliminate the hum? Thanks.
I forgot to mention I do have a L & R RCA going from the 1219 to the amp.
Hi, Rich. Yes, you'll need that ground wire. The Dual should have one from the factory, but if not, you can attach a length of 18 or 20-gauge insulated wire to the screw on the underside of the chassis where the strain relief for the AC cord is. The other end of this wire connects to the ground on your amp. The ground wire should be about the same length as your RCA cables.
@@ScottGrammer I don’t see that screw and I’m not too handy. I’m not sure I see the screw, but I’ll look again. Can I buy the wire at Home Depot? Can I attach the bare wire to the back of the ground wire binding post on the back of the amp? Thanks
@@richwidick4648 You may want to have to have a ground wire professionally installed on your turntable. It's a simple matter for a pro tech, and should not take more than a few minutes. Yes, you can get the wire at Home Depot, but if you're going to have a pro do it, he or she should have suitable wire in stock. All you need is three or four feet of 18-22 gauge insulated wire.
@@ScottGrammer Good suggestion and that’s what I will do. I really appreciate your quick reply and help. Looking forward to watching other videos from you. Have a great Holiday!!
Hi Scott, thanks for your video. I have 2 Klipsch speakers that have phono inputs and I want to connect both of them to a turntable, so I can have a stereo setup. In other words, the left cable from the turntable would go to the left speaker and the right cable would go to the right speaker. Do I have to split the ground cable into 2 separate cables so that each speaker receives a ground? Or is it ok to just install the ground cable to just one of the speakers?
Hi. Are you sure those Klipsch speakers have actual phono preamps in them, or are they merely line level inputs? Most powered speakers only have line level inputs, which will not work connected directly to a turntable. I have seen one pair of powered speakers with an actual phono preamp, but in that case both inputs (and all the electronics, as well as the phono ground terminal) were in one speaker, and the other speaker connected to the main one with a simple cable. What is the model number of those speakers? The Fives, which do have phono preamps, have both inputs on one speaker, with the other connected by an umbilical cable.
@@ScottGrammer Thanks for responding! The model that I have is the Klipsch One II. It is designed to connect the turntable to only one speaker, since it has a Left & Right input. However, since it has the left & right drivers integrated in such a small enclosure, I would like to use two separate Klipsch One II speakers to increase the stereo separation. So, that's why I would like to use one turntable for 2 of these speakers and needed to know how to deal with the ground cable.
@@Guachum in that case you would need to connect the ground wire to both speakers. What concerns me is that you could very easily create a ground Loop which could cause the very hum you are trying not to cause.
@@ScottGrammer That's what I thought. I really appreciate your advice, considering that you're an experienced electronics technician.
@@Guachum If I may make a suggestion, use an inexpensive external phono preamp and connect your turntable to it. Since the One uses 3.5mm inputs, you'd need two cables, each with an RCA plug on one end , wired to both the tip and ring (that is, the center conductor is wired to both tip and ring, while the shield connects to the sleeve as usual) of a stereo 3.5mm plug on the other end. These two cables could then be run between the outputs of the phono preamp and the line inputs of the Klipsch speakers. Since this would be a line-level signal, no ground would be needed, and the cables could be up to 20 feet long with no problems. By the way, the One does not have a phono preamp built into it.
Does it matter if the ground wire is connected between the washer and ground screw? Or should the washer and screw be over the ground wire? Thx in advance 😊
It does not matter.
@Scott Grammer Thx for fast reply!👍🏽✌🏾
Could you elaborate on your explanation on balanced connection? In my opinion the hot pin carries the signal, cold pin carries a phase inverted copy of the signal and they bot use the third pin as a common ground reference.
The answer might be a bit cumbersome for a reply to a comment, but here goes! What you have described is an "electronically balanced" connection, something that arose in the early 1970's as audio transformers were becoming unpopular, and op-amps had become a way of life for audio designers because they were cheap and simple and very useful. An unbalanced (signal and ground) connection was replicated with an inverting, unity-gain amplifier, usually made with an op-amp, and so now you had exactly what you describe: hot (non-inverted signal), cold (inverted signal), and ground. While this is a perfectly valid balanced connection, provided it goes to a balanced input that makes equal use of both phases (hot and cold), it is not what a balanced connection was supposed to be.
Originally, transformers were used at each end of a balanced connection. The audio flowed between transformer windings on each end of the cable, and there was NO ground reference for the audio - only the shield of the cable was grounded. In fact, back in the days of analog landlines, telephone wires moved audio for miles, on the same utility poles that carried AC power, with little hum problem, by using a transformer-balanced system with NO shield at all! This true balanced connection is often called a "floating" balanced circuit.
The most easily-noticed difference between electronically balanced and true balanced (floating) connections is that while with a modern, electronically-balanced signal, you can dispense with one of the phases and have an unbalanced signal (albeit 6dB quieter), ready to use, because there is a ground reference for the audio. True balanced circuits - using transformers - don't work like that. You have to intentionally ground one phase, and only then will you have an unbalanced connection, and this time, without the 6dB loss that converting an electronically balanced signal suffers. Note that the introduction of phantom power to balanced mic lines by Neumann in 1966 rendered transformer balanced connections using phantom power non-floating.
Now, as regards pseudo-balanced connections, like phono preamps have, these are actually unbalanced, because the "cold" connection is connected to ground at the phono preamp, But the shield of the audio cables does not connect to the chassis or tonearm of the turntable. It only connects to the coils of the phono cartridge. The chassis ground connection is made with a separate ground wire, so that any hum current that might flow between the turntable chassis and the preamp does not flow on the audio cable shield, and so cannot be easily induced into the "hot" connection carrying the music.
I hope this helps.
@@ScottGrammer Thanks a lot for the precise answer, really appreciate it! Gives me a few Keywords to read on further and hopefully being able to understand this properly:)
Also, as far as an antenna on my receiver is it better to hook up 300 ohm with a dipole or 75 ohm with coax. And is the 75 ohm only for outside antenna
As for which is better, 300-ohm twinlead or 75-ohm coax, it depends on what you're connecting and how the cable will be run. Generally 75-ohm coax is better because it provided better interference rejection and because it can be run near metal items (like aluminum siding) without a problem. Twinlead should be kept at least a foot away from metal or from outdoor surfaces that can get wet from rain, as being close to conductors will upset the impedance of the cable. BUT - good quality twinlead, properly installed, has less signal loss than coax, so if your antenna is 100 feet or more away from your tuner, twinlead might be better. If you're using an indoor dipole, just use whichever is most convenient, as the length of the cable run is not long enough to cause significant losses with either type.
Do avoid using "balun" adapters if you can, as these can lose up to half your signal. If your antenna has a 75 ohm output, use coax and connect it to the 75 ohm input on your tuner. If your antenna uses twinlead, then just use twinlead and connect it to the 300 ohm input on your tuner.
Did you get the picture of my unit it is a pioneer SX 3600 and I do not have a coax connection
@@sandracohen8481 No, I didn't get a picture, if you emailed one to me. But I'm familiar with the 3600. You can connect coax to it if the coax does not have a plug on the end. You'll need to strip the end of the coax and separate the shield and center conductor. On the rear of your 3600, there are four screw terminals for antennas. The one on the right is for AM, ignore it. Second from the right is ground, this is where you connect the shield of the coax. Third from the right is the 75 ohm terminal, this is where you connect the center conductor of the coax.
What can I connect the coax to in the house
@@sandracohen8481 You can make a simple 75-ohm dipole by connecting the other end of the coax to two lengths of plain wire, each about 31 inches long. Arrange the coax and the two lengths of wire into a "T" shape, perhaps taped or tacked to a wall, with the coax going straight down for at least three feet. A dipole such as this is bi-directional, and will be best placed on a wall that faces the radio stations you want to receive.
do i need to ground my turntable if i’m not using a preamp or receiver?
I can only assume you mean one of the newer USB-equipped turntables, and that you will be connecting it only to a computer. In that case, no you do not need to ground it.
Thank you for this I have bought things from you in the past. Hope you have an onkyo turntable soon.
I don't often sell things. What did you buy from me?
@@ScottGrammer sorry I thought you were the guy that sells audio equipment in the back of red bank thrift store. I must be mistaken. I bought an onkyo DVD player a while back to use as a CD player but since gotten a CD player for my stack but still using the DVD player in my setup. Currently seeking a turntable to complete my setup.
@@jasoneustice8034 I do work out of the back of the Red Bank Thrift Store, however, the DVD player you bought, though you may have talked to me about it, was actually sold by the thrift store.
@@ScottGrammer ok I understand. If you run across a black vintage onkyo turntable let me know I am seeking one. If I find one that need repairs I will buy it and let you know.:)
@@jasoneustice8034 Check the "about" page of this channel and you'll find my email address. Email me and I can give you some contact info of a couple of people who might have such a turntable.
My Linn has an earth wire but my Teac doesn’t. Both sound equally as good as each other.
I'm a firm believer in "if it works, don't fix it." So, if the Teac doesn't need a ground wire, so much the better! What model Teac is it, if you don't mind?
@@ScottGrammer TN 350.
@@geraldoram2453 Ahh. It has a built-in preamp, that's why it has no ground wire.
I hooked up a long rca because I moved my tt farther away and now I got major humming noise🤔🤔
Usually, you don't want cables from a turntable being longer than six feet (about 2M) for that very reason. Also, longer cables have higher capacitance, and due to the inductive source impedance of the phono cartridge and the relatively high overall impedance, the extra capacitance will reduce the high frequency response. If you must have the turntable away from the rest of the system, invest in an outboard phono preamp, and keep it near the turntable. Then run long cables from it to an auxiliary input on the stereo.
@@ScottGrammer thank you, I do plan on purchasing a shiit mani pre-amp in near future, hopefully that will work, thank you again for your quick response Happy New Year!!🤔👍
My Rotel rp1100Q turntable does NOT have a ground wire. Why is that?
I looked that model up and downloaded the owner's manual. Sure enough, it was never provided with a ground wire. That means it has internal grounding, which is not a good idea with turntables. It works, but not very well. It is a compromise, intended to make the turntable easier to connect, at the expense of making it more susceptible to hum. Thorens made some units like that, and then immediately released service bulletins to their service centers, explaining how to undo the internal grounding and add a proper ground wire, after hundreds of hum complaints from purchasers of those turntables.
@@ScottGrammer Never had a single issue with hum, whether I had it connected to a Luxman LV-111 or a Carver C-2 preamplifier and Carver M-400 amplifier.
@@dominicpardo4783 Glad to hear it. It works out for some people, especially with certain phono cartridges.
@@ScottGrammer Very nice Shure cartridge...
I really hate using the terms Hot and Cold in reference to balanced signals. It is truly not correctly descriptive of the circuit.
True, it's not. But it's perhaps easier for the student to understand than "phase one and phase two," or others terms of art. The only important thing is to decide on a connection convention, and stick with it throughout a system. And of course, to be aware of any non-compliant devices in the chain.
I love walk in your office I lean some everytime
Thank you, Wanda,.
Well, should this video tell the truth, the question then is why all the turntables equipped with the DIN 5 pin connector are essentially wired the bad way...
They're not. DIN phono cables use five connections: Two for the left channel audio, two for the right channel audio, and the last (the middle pin in the DIN plug) is chassis ground. BTW, nice channel you have! I have subscribed to it.
Further, DIN cables can support true balanced connections, but you must disconnect the shell ground found on most phono cartridges and connect the shell (if there is one) directly to the tonearm shield or ground wire. And of course, you'll want to replace the RCA plugs with XLR's or some other connector capable of balanced operation.
Fat man got to eat 😂😂😂😂 cool bro you funny dude some DJ that use technic 1200 mk 2 are be grounding off I want to do that to mine but I never heard one before see how it sound if I put it loud with real vinyl record oh maybe they using laptop they don't have to use real record lp they use sorato scratch that you could hook up your turntable into it so I could use my laptop with million of music n I could easy mix oh scratch it becomes digital but with real vinyl DJ I don't know how it will sound that why I have not done it to mine technic 1200 mk 2 can you do a video to see how a turntable sound with real vinyl record when play loud with the turntable groundings off thank you like your video you said it does make distortion n hum sound still anyway hope you make a video as about this grounding turntable check it out how it sound with real vinyl at a higher level when I put the music loud if is ok with real vinyl
Lost me about 27 seconds in
I'm sorry to hear that. The tldr is this. Magnetic phono preamps are way more sensitive to hum than normal line level inputs and so they have to have a special grounding scheme.