I’m doing a small home studio with four dedicated audio outlets, sounds like I should run for separate home runs / breakers back to the sub-panel? From what I’ve read, isolated receptacle outlets actually have an extra ground. That’s not what you’re doing for studios, is it?
...long time musician and composer.. recently retired Infantry.. yup...bang bang to boom boom boom box fulltime. I first composed on a Tascam 4 track during puberty and recorded on a laptop in Iraq and Afghanistan. and NOW.. I've had the time to compose and think more about what I'm doing. Really diving deep into mixing techniques, better frequency understanding and sound quality "responsibility".. so I got these 250 Ohm open back headphones with along with a preamp and WOW.. its like new ears BUT, the ground loop was so overwhelming. and then without the headphones the sound was still there because I knew what to listen for. ..now I'm on a journey. I killed the loop by using a single UPS on my direct audio system. (CPU, 2 monitors, 2 audio monitors a mixer, a headphone preamp and a Digi Tech rack mount...and a lamp. its clean and balanced. until I connect it to my "mobile gear" a DI box reduced the connecting but.. it could be so much more clean. I have a little $30 ground isolator arriving soon but.. now that I know the sound.. its kills my ears or motivation, its sucks. lol. I guess... I am typing this to say THANK YOU. first and foremost. great explanations and commentary but what I loved the most how you are the only person in a vid that talks about tthe process of stopping it all together. NO oNe else mentioned it. I have been wondering this from day one. AND.. Its awesome because my dads a master electrician. I can't wait to ask him about the isolated receptacles and star grounding systems, zero loop systems. It will give us something to talk about.. besides our disagreements in politics.. as of recent. this could calm things down. again. thank you.
Great video but it misses the latest scorpion in the woodpile. A lot of newer gear is wall wart powered and doesn't have a dedicated ground. When you have wall wart gear connected to other wall wart gear which may also be connected to a computer via USB, troubleshooting is a nightmare. An explanation of how to deal with ground loops with wall wart gear would be very helpful!
You can always use mains cleaner. I use the “cheap” £40 mains cleaning extension leads. I have 3 6socket ones. Each plug is independently filtered & I have 0 hum. I lied they don’t have independent socket filters! But they still do great! I’m in a flat that all sockets are on the same ring. There are 4 computers 8 screens various lights & noise emitting crap. I can crank the volume up the the max & I can’t hear any hiss! Edit: CS947 Tacima are the extension leads I’m using. I’m running one from the wall & then 2 of them from that for my setup. For the price of £39 - £50 depending on where you get them they are very worth it!
There are pro conditioners & I will name drop isotek.. they are the industry leaders! I use their mains leads for my DBX286 & monitors. Each lead is £150… So only consider them if you have money to spend! I have met them through a mutual friend when they were just starting out.. spectacular products. I plugged my old power mac G4 into the isotek titan & it actually sped up my mouse. But if you just want good clean mains with no feedback & basic isolation the tacima CS947 will do.
Hi Wilson, Again, nice and informative video you got here. If I have a Toslink (ADAT) preamp (Behringer ADA 8200) electrically connected to a different electrical outlet than my sound card, is there a chance of groundloop? Can electricity travel through an optical cable ? Also inportant to mention that each of my outlets are connected to their own distinctive breakers. Thank you.
The best response to your question is NO. The ground loop is only created through direct electrical connections using wires. Optical cables isolate the two pieces of equipment. No chance for a ground loop to be created between those two pieces of equipment.
As far as 'sound-proofing my studio' goes, I moved my 9th Studio Off-Grid onto 160 acres! My nearest neighbor is over a mile away -So 'sound-proofing' is NO LONGER an issue!🤬... Even though the room in my house where I am currently building THIS 9th Studio has existing electrical supplies (2 double-gang recepticals: across the room from each other, but -on 2 separate breakers); I'm tearing-out part of a wall in order to install DEDICATED outlets that will be connected to their own breakers AND DEDICATED GROUND (i.e., an 'IG Circuit': 8' Copper grounding-rod)... Added to THAT - I'll be using (2) Power Conditioners to ISOLATE the same supply power to the rest of the house from my Studio Equipment!😈🦋✨👽⚡
So, what would you recommend if you have electrical that's less than ideal, and aren't going to get your place rewired? Like maybe an actual Line Conditioner? Also, by Line Conditioner, I don'r mean just like a cheap power conditioner, but there's actual Line Conditioners I've been looking at, but I'm not sure if they would actually help with actual ground loops, but apparently they can help with better EMI/RFI noise rejection, and actual Voltage regulation. Is there actually any outboard stuff that can help with, or override an actual ground loop, or ground issues, or are they all still just a band-aid at the end of the day?
You say don’t plug into different outlets, but it’s really outlets across different circuits, right? So let’s say I have 2 breakers (circuits) in my panel dedicated to the studio: one for audio equipment, and one for lights and other non audio gear. Lots of outlets for each. Would that work? Even if the panel uses one ground for all circuits?
That sounds correct to my understanding, but I’m just a DIY amateur. I think he alluded to this fact. I had my electrician wire a separate audio circuit, and then a separate one for non-, and then a third one for lighting switches. Working in progress so I don’t know if it worked yet lol UPDATE: although I had two separate circuits, one for several audio outlets and the other several non-audio outlets, I decided to run yet ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL breaker is for my computer (I could also power my rack mount gear/interface here.). I may put this breaker on a UPS near my subpanel outside the room.
The goal is to have your electrical as direct as possible. So if you have lots of outlets for each breaker then yes you may run into ground loops. Ideally it would be one ground for all the audio equipment and not a bunch of outlets daisy chained together.
What about the computer monitor(HDTV screen, or etc)? Should I have my condenser microphone, guitar amp, audio interface, Mac computer as well as the TV monitor in the same?
How do I get my RME Babyface ProFs not to have hiss in my active speakers? Is a ground lift sufficient? The Sonnect SoundWire doesn’t produce hiss in my speakers.
Not sure, but you would need to trouble shoot the issue with checking for where the hiss is starting from. This could mean turning things off and focusing on one into at a time until you find the culprit.
I'm not clear on what makes the ground loop. The video suggests this happens when audio line-connected audio gear components are plugged in to more than one outlet on a daisy chained power circuit typical in most rooms. By that explanation, it should be ok to have lights and non-line-connected audio gear (amps and pedals that will be mic'd to the interface rather than line-in) on the same power circuit, right? It just seems impractical and wasteful for most people to run a separate circuit breaker to each outlet in a room.
Woah, no need to be negative. So in your example ideally you would plug amps and pedals into a single outlet in your room dedicated to audio that was not on the same circuit as lamps, lights and refrigerators. The audio should be ideally on one leg of your panel, lights and hvac on the other. However, this is easier said than done since a 220v hvac in-unit will cross both legs and you need a balanced load. I agree it seems wasteful, but this is how many designers say to build studios to avoid electrical hums and noise.
I had a subpanel added in my attic and it’s really not that impractical to dedicate for breakers to 5 audio outlets in my space. Of course, my home studio is only 12’ x 20’. I did make a mistake in my design, I had the electrician put one circuit with two audio outlets on it, and then another circuit with three audio outlets on it. So it will cost me a little extra money to get him back to run more wire from the sub panel to separate the other outlets. At least I caught this before Drywall! I’ll probably eliminate one of the outlets. I don’t think it will be necessary for 5 in small room.
I have no electrician 😂 I always do things by myself. I am experiencing a very annoying noise , tried everything, don't know why. Everything is plugged in one extension.
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FREE Soundproofing Workshop: www.soundproofyourstudio.com/workshop
I've been making sure of this in my proper studios for years. It's a often forgotten process by a lot of people. Just do it, it's worth the cost.
Thanks for sharing
I’m doing a small home studio with four dedicated audio outlets, sounds like I should run for separate home runs / breakers back to the sub-panel? From what I’ve read, isolated receptacle outlets actually have an extra ground. That’s not what you’re doing for studios, is it?
...long time musician and composer.. recently retired Infantry.. yup...bang bang to boom boom boom box fulltime. I first composed on a Tascam 4 track during puberty and recorded on a laptop in Iraq and Afghanistan. and NOW.. I've had the time to compose and think more about what I'm doing. Really diving deep into mixing techniques, better frequency understanding and sound quality "responsibility".. so I got these 250 Ohm open back headphones with along with a preamp and WOW.. its like new ears BUT, the ground loop was so overwhelming. and then without the headphones the sound was still there because I knew what to listen for. ..now I'm on a journey. I killed the loop by using a single UPS on my direct audio system. (CPU, 2 monitors, 2 audio monitors a mixer, a headphone preamp and a Digi Tech rack mount...and a lamp. its clean and balanced. until I connect it to my "mobile gear" a DI box reduced the connecting but.. it could be so much more clean. I have a little $30 ground isolator arriving soon but.. now that I know the sound.. its kills my ears or motivation, its sucks. lol.
I guess... I am typing this to say THANK YOU. first and foremost. great explanations and commentary but what I loved the most how you are the only person in a vid that talks about tthe process of stopping it all together. NO oNe else mentioned it. I have been wondering this from day one. AND.. Its awesome because my dads a master electrician. I can't wait to ask him about the isolated receptacles and star grounding systems, zero loop systems. It will give us something to talk about.. besides our disagreements in politics.. as of recent. this could calm things down. again. thank you.
Glad to help. Thank you
Great video but it misses the latest scorpion in the woodpile. A lot of newer gear is wall wart powered and doesn't have a dedicated ground. When you have wall wart gear connected to other wall wart gear which may also be connected to a computer via USB, troubleshooting is a nightmare. An explanation of how to deal with ground loops with wall wart gear would be very helpful!
You can always use mains cleaner.
I use the “cheap” £40 mains cleaning extension leads. I have 3 6socket ones.
Each plug is independently filtered & I have 0 hum. I lied they don’t have independent socket filters! But they still do great!
I’m in a flat that all sockets are on the same ring.
There are 4 computers 8 screens various lights & noise emitting crap.
I can crank the volume up the the max & I can’t hear any hiss!
Edit: CS947 Tacima are the extension leads I’m using.
I’m running one from the wall & then 2 of them from that for my setup.
For the price of £39 - £50 depending on where you get them they are very worth it!
Great tip!
KOOL! 😎
There are pro conditioners & I will name drop isotek.. they are the industry leaders!
I use their mains leads for my DBX286 & monitors. Each lead is £150…
So only consider them if you have money to spend!
I have met them through a mutual friend when they were just starting out.. spectacular products.
I plugged my old power mac G4 into the isotek titan & it actually sped up my mouse.
But if you just want good clean mains with no feedback & basic isolation the tacima CS947 will do.
Thanks for your informative video
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Wilson,
Again, nice and informative video you got here.
If I have a Toslink (ADAT) preamp (Behringer ADA 8200) electrically connected to a different electrical outlet than my sound card, is there a chance of groundloop? Can electricity travel through an optical cable ? Also inportant to mention that each of my outlets are connected to their own distinctive breakers. Thank you.
If you don’t have any issues with noise then you are fine.
The best response to your question is NO. The ground loop is only created through direct electrical connections using wires. Optical cables isolate the two pieces of equipment. No chance for a ground loop to be created between those two pieces of equipment.
As far as 'sound-proofing my studio' goes, I moved my 9th Studio Off-Grid onto 160 acres! My nearest neighbor is over a mile away -So 'sound-proofing' is NO LONGER an issue!🤬...
Even though the room in my house where I am currently building THIS 9th Studio has existing electrical supplies (2 double-gang recepticals: across the room from each other, but -on 2 separate breakers); I'm tearing-out part of a wall in order to install DEDICATED outlets that will be connected to their own breakers AND DEDICATED GROUND (i.e., an 'IG Circuit': 8' Copper grounding-rod)...
Added to THAT - I'll be using (2) Power Conditioners to ISOLATE the same supply power to the rest of the house from my Studio Equipment!😈🦋✨👽⚡
Sounds good
So, what would you recommend if you have electrical that's less than ideal, and aren't going to get your place rewired? Like maybe an actual Line Conditioner? Also, by Line Conditioner, I don'r mean just like a cheap power conditioner, but there's actual Line Conditioners I've been looking at, but I'm not sure if they would actually help with actual ground loops, but apparently they can help with better EMI/RFI noise rejection, and actual Voltage regulation. Is there actually any outboard stuff that can help with, or override an actual ground loop, or ground issues, or are they all still just a band-aid at the end of the day?
Mostly band aids, but don’t try to fix a problem you don’t already have.
You say don’t plug into different outlets, but it’s really outlets across different circuits, right? So let’s say I have 2 breakers (circuits) in my panel dedicated to the studio: one for audio equipment, and one for lights and other non audio gear. Lots of outlets for each. Would that work? Even if the panel uses one ground for all circuits?
That sounds correct to my understanding, but I’m just a DIY amateur. I think he alluded to this fact. I had my electrician wire a separate audio circuit, and then a separate one for non-, and then a third one for lighting switches. Working in progress so I don’t know if it worked yet lol
UPDATE: although I had two separate circuits, one for several audio outlets and the other several non-audio outlets, I decided to run yet ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL breaker is for my computer (I could also power my rack mount gear/interface here.). I may put this breaker on a UPS near my subpanel outside the room.
The goal is to have your electrical as direct as possible. So if you have lots of outlets for each breaker then yes you may run into ground loops. Ideally it would be one ground for all the audio equipment and not a bunch of outlets daisy chained together.
What about the computer monitor(HDTV screen, or etc)? Should I have my condenser microphone, guitar amp, audio interface, Mac computer as well as the TV monitor in the same?
I do, but that is a good question.
How do I get my RME Babyface ProFs not to have hiss in my active speakers? Is a ground lift sufficient? The Sonnect SoundWire doesn’t produce hiss in my speakers.
Not sure, but you would need to trouble shoot the issue with checking for where the hiss is starting from. This could mean turning things off and focusing on one into at a time until you find the culprit.
I'm not clear on what makes the ground loop. The video suggests this happens when audio line-connected audio gear components are plugged in to more than one outlet on a daisy chained power circuit typical in most rooms. By that explanation, it should be ok to have lights and non-line-connected audio gear (amps and pedals that will be mic'd to the interface rather than line-in) on the same power circuit, right? It just seems impractical and wasteful for most people to run a separate circuit breaker to each outlet in a room.
Yup nothing about studio building is logical or easy.
Woah, no need to be negative. So in your example ideally you would plug amps and pedals into a single outlet in your room dedicated to audio that was not on the same circuit as lamps, lights and refrigerators. The audio should be ideally on one leg of your panel, lights and hvac on the other. However, this is easier said than done since a 220v hvac in-unit will cross both legs and you need a balanced load. I agree it seems wasteful, but this is how many designers say to build studios to avoid electrical hums and noise.
I had a subpanel added in my attic and it’s really not that impractical to dedicate for breakers to 5 audio outlets in my space. Of course, my home studio is only 12’ x 20’. I did make a mistake in my design, I had the electrician put one circuit with two audio outlets on it, and then another circuit with three audio outlets on it. So it will cost me a little extra money to get him back to run more wire from the sub panel to separate the other outlets. At least I caught this before Drywall! I’ll probably eliminate one of the outlets. I don’t think it will be necessary for 5 in small room.
I have no electrician 😂 I always do things by myself. I am experiencing a very annoying noise , tried everything, don't know why. Everything is plugged in one extension.
I would not go into a sound proof room with this guy
Thanks for watching
how to remove ground loops and the video starts with pink noise on the audio
Will have to look into that. Could be the SM7B gained up to hot.