The Ultimate Ultralight Backpack Accessory? Vaucluse Ventilation Frame Tested On Kakwa 55 Backpack
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ย. 2023
- Howdy Folks! Welcome Back To The Channel.
In This Weeks Video We Are In Studio City Los Angeles.
My Goal Was To Test A Piece Of Gear From Vaucluse In The Quest To Sweat Less On The Trail.
Many Ultralight Backpacks, Such As The Kakwa 55, Save Ounces Or Pounds By Not Designing In Thick Foam Back Padding, Or Any Ventilation Technology Altogether, Which Makes For A Super Sweaty Backpacking Experience.
Enter The Backpack Ventilation Frame From Vaucluse. Vaucluse claims this is " The No Sweat Backpack Frame " And Has Even Gone As Far As Trademarking " Sweat Less. " Over Two Days I Aim To Test This Claim :
Day 1 ) Two Mile Hike In Studio City In 90 Plus Degree Weather With The Kakwa 55 Backpack And No Frame Spacer To See The Amount Of Sweat Present On My Sun Hoodie At The End Of The Hike.
Day 2 ) Identical Hike Location At Identical Time In Near Identical Weather With The Kakwa 55 Backpack And The Vaucluse Ventilation Frame To Compare Amount Of Sweat Present Against Day 1.
The Summery Of This Weeks Video Is A Few Quick Thoughts On If Its Possible To Sweat Less, A Study That Claimed Backpack Airflow Technology Helps You Sweat Less and Pack Less Water, And What This Vaucluse Frame Spacer Could Actually Be Good For.
Thanks For Watching, Hope You Enjoy!
Gear In This Video :
Vaucluse Ventilation Frame
vauclusegear.com/products/ult...
Kakwa 55
durstongear.com/products/kakw...
Patagonia Baggies
www.patagonia.com/product/men...
Ridge Solstice
www.ridgemerino.com/products/...
BedRock Sandals
bedrocksandals.com/products/c...
Ciele Hat
cieleathletics.com/collection...
Bandits Bandana
banditsbandanas.com/
#hiking
#backpacking
#losangeles
#backpackinggear
#vaucluse
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Zac, thank you for sharing this 360 review of our product and co. Even more, thanks for waiting 100+ days to get it! You are 100% right. Sweating is going to happen. It's the body's way to cool you down. Movement = sweat. And depending on your environment and gear (especially a bigger pack), your body will sweat accordingly. The ventilation helps give relief to your back. Maybe our message moving forward should be 'to ventilating more' rather than 'to sweating less.' Stoked to have seen this review and comments. Glad the frame worked. And thanks for the feedback on improving the design modifications.
Howdy Vaucluse, great to see you in the comments!
A few silly jabs here and there in this video, but your product was fun to review.
" Venting More ' and " Staying Cool " definitely fit right in with this product. The first time I wore the frame spacer, walking a few yards from the trailhead, felling the cool air evaporation process already starting on my back, I knew there was potential here.
Manufacturing this in the US using a domestic plastics house is no doubt expensive, and so are those domestic molds, so it would make sense why it would not be economical to revision constantly, but Im excited to see future iterations and continue testing out new versions as they come!
This frame spacer isn't going to be sitting in the corner somewhere collecting dust, Ill be taking this on a 5 day backpacking trip in Sequoias this month and Ill hopefully have more to share on some good backpacking use.
All the best, cheers
How about "To sweat is human, to air is divine."
@@ShawnMeyers75 We are delighted to hear you ordered our Ultralight Backpack Ventilation Frame. We greatly appreciate Zac's honest review of our product and video to spread the word about our unconventional approach to airflow and ventilation. Keep us posted on how the frame performs on your short hikes. To venting more!
I agree. It’s not the sweat that sucks I just don’t want it seeping into my pack and getting my sleeping or close wet
Agreed Jim! I just used this in the Sequoias on the lakes trail to Pear Lake. I wanted to make sure I didn’t leave any salty snacks on my new backpack for the Marmots. Worked great and kept my Badger sleeping bag dry
I like how everyone calls him Dan, like they go fishing together on the weekends.
Hey he just might if you asked him…I hear you tho! I think it’s the chill vibe he gives off, seems like a chill neighbor
You should refer to him as Mr. Durston.
The rest of us will stick with “Dan.”
Worth noting: just because you have a similar amount of sweat on your back at the end, doesn't mean you sweat the same amount! Without it, a ton of sweat is on your pack, which is trapping heat on your back. With it, moisture is evaporating away, but also it's still freaking hot, so of course you're still sweating a ton, and you could still easily soak the shirt.
Howdy Matt!
You make a very solid / valid point. This is very non - scientific experiment to say the least and I’ll admit I was having a little fun with the comments in this video for sure.
I would love to approach this topic again in a more well thought out video. Not going to satisfy everyone but I definitely could do a better job:) Like not doing this on near 100 degree days …
Appreciate you taking the time to check it out tho! Be well, cheers.
The amount of sweat doesn’t matter. What matters is allowing the sweat to cool you by evaporation. This should improve evaporation. And that’s good.
Great review. Some good random laughs. I’ve been super curious about this product for a while now. Thanks for all the work you put into this!
Thanks for checking it out! Really glad you liked it, this was a fun one :)
Great review. Just when I thought I’ve seen all the gear made you come up with a backpack spring mattress. You answered the questions I came up with while watching this video. Great zing at your mailman.
Glad you enjoyed! This was quite the multi day experiment. No shade at the Los Angeles USPS…but maybe you don’t want a vinyl record delivered via mail ha. Fun video to make, thanks as always for checking it out!
Cheers
Dan is a genius, I hope he gets to make a sleeping pad too, I heard him talking about it. Hard stuff, but I believe he can make it happen if all the parts come together. Go Dan!!!
Dan certainly is a true innovator. Sleeping pads from the mind of Dan would be awesome!
Great review! Nice to know somebody has made an improvement that helps cool you down and keep the pack dry. I can't wait to see the new upgraded product...
Thanks for checking it out! Glad you enjoyed. Very happy myself that I don’t have to get all that sweat and bacteria on a nice pack, super win.
Man, only watched less than half your vid and just consider subscribing, clear-positive-smart way of describing the reviewed stuff. Keep up the wonderful job !
Howdy George, thank you very much for the kind words, it means a lot:) Glad you enjoyed the vid!
Thank you for this video. You probably did sweat about the same amount but received more benefit due to greater evaporative cooling. I would say the device would probably shine in that marginal circumstance where the temperature is a little lower.
Subscribed.
Very much agreed, and thank you for checking out the vid:) Thanks for the subscribe !
For what is a pretty niche topic, the video quality here is top notch. This review was a really entertaining watch. Kudos.
Hey thanks Edward that actually means a lot to me and I appreciate it! Really happy you enjoyed this. This one seemed to big a bigger view hit so, looks like I’ll be making more of these as I go.
Cheers
I have some experience with this frame and really like it. My only complaint is that I wish it had standoffs on the very bottom row along the edge. It also took me a while to figure out how to properly insert the shoulder strap attachment points into their little slots so they seat all the way in. The trick was to gently wiggle them from side to side as you slide them in as opposed to just trying to press them in straight, which would cause them to bind on the way in and not seat properly. If they're not fully seated, they tend to pop off and it's a hassle constantly having to re-attach them. The wiggle method solved that. Also, I use my frame on a Hyperlite pack that's made of water resistant dynema material. Because it's water resistant, sweat would not get absorbed but would instead wind up on your back if it were not for this frame. That's why I dig it. Nice review!
Howdy! Thanks for checking out the video and sharing your firsthand thoughts.
I would agree with you on the shoulder strap attachment points being a point of interest for potential improvement. Just did some good miles in Sequoias and I had the strap / hooks come undone a couple times. My gear customization curiosities are going to focus on this pretty soon…universal applications across several liter capacity packs I’m sure is no small feat but I’d like to take a shot at it.
I think you nailed the frame application on the head tho, ventilation cooling and evaporation assist. Add the bonus that you keep all that salt off of your gear so Mr marmot doesn’t come after you, and you have a solid product worth the 3 ounce penalty.
I’ll give the “ wiggle method “ a shot tho! Thanks for the tip.
Cheers
I just ordered two. I ruck for fitness - 45 pounds loads in a military type rucksack. Sweating is involved. Gonna try these out!
Awesome! 45 pounds is some serious weight right there. I’m sure the first time you feel that cool air on your back you’ll be surprised.
Cheers
Was looking into this for my Mariposa 60 and had a feeling it wasn't worth the coin. Nicely done video.
Glad it helped your decision! If you’re looking to sweat less, not worth it. Looking to keep sweat off your pack, definitely did that 100%. May also be worth it for the cooling effect and sweat evaporation assistance.
Day two my shirt was slightly less visibly soaked, but that was just the edges of shirt sweat drying quicker with more airflow. So a plus on the cooling.
Cheers!
New sub! Well done! I just did a review on this a couple weeks ago on a day pack but I have a Kakwa as well!
Howdy there, thanks very much for the compliment this was a fun review to make. Experimenting with an editing vibe and presentation. I’ll have to check your review out!
cool review. super easy to follow, no fluff, very unbiased and fair.
Howdy! Really appreciate the comment thanks for kind words. That was a pretty fun product to review. I’m anxious to see the next design they come out with.
Thanks for checking out the vid! Cheers
great review. honest and most logic I can ever relate with. first time viewer here.
Thank you very much I appreciate that ! This was a fun one to make. And that was a seriously hot day, I had previously started this shoot in Topanga Canyon and it was dangerously hot so I bailed. Im already missing summer and the sun tho...
Hope you had a great Thanksgiving, thanks for checking out the channel!
Be well, cheers
By making both parts the same, they only need one mold tool. Helps keep costs down.
A fellow member of the procurement / supply chain folks of the world?
This is truth, you are correct. Different revision controlled designs, different tooling costs. I would have loved to get more into the design / end procurement and warehouse management of additional materials, but I found myself being long winded enough :) Retention rate zero % at that point ha!
Thanks for mentioning this and checking out the video!
Before giving in to buying an ultralight backpack, one of the main thing I was looking for was the back ventilation. I was actually a bit hesistant to go for the kakwa 40 because it doesn't have some kind of back ventilation system. I'm one of those who sweat so much, so having some sort of ventilation is a great deal of help for me comfort wise. As soon as I placed the order for my Kakwa, I found myself thinking of what I could to to DIY a ventilation for me. Having found your video, I was ecstatic. I really appreciate the effort and sweat you poured out in making the content and I enjoyed it a lot. I would like to give this thingamajig a try. :D Thank you!
Howdy!
Thank you so much for checking out the video, and Im so happy you feel more confident in your Kakwa 40 purchase after watching this. THIS is exactly why I make these videos.
Exertion = sweat, we all face it hiking / backpacking. I genuinely believe you will be thrilled at that inevitable sweat being cooled like an ice pack with this spacer frame. Try a before frame / after frame experiment hike so you can observe the results, that might really solidify this product has potential. You will certainly dry faster and stay cooler with adequate airflow / breeze.
Im excited to see if this small company can afford the incremental mould changes needed to perfect this design, I hope they make it.
Cheers !
I actually don't mind sweating. It's the the uncomfortable feeling of having something wet rub on your back for a long period of time and the heat generated due to the lack of ventilation that's driving me nuts with backpacks. Although, I would be trying your suggestion on trying it with and without the frame to see the difference.
I agree with your suggestion with the mould changes as well. Would be nice to have it shaped the way our back is for added comfort.
Congrats on the Kakwa 40! Great pack. I've tried numerous light weight packs with ultra and the kakwa is my favorite, most comfortable and carries more weight comfortably. I wish the front pocket was a bit larger. I see that he's upgraded the 55 with a larger from pocket, so hopefully that will be an upgrade for the 40. The back does sweat, but, like this video points out, sweat is common anyway. I tried some curve backpacks before the kakwa and still sweated as the trampoline style pressed against my clothing and didn't allow for much air flow from my sun shirt. Thanks for the video Zac!
Excellent review of this product. I’m in Texas, so this could be a game changer for me.
Thank you! Really glad you found this info useful. As long as you have a light breeze, your going to love the feel:)
Excellent review! I saw this yesterday on GGG and was intrigued. Hence, the algorithm Gods brought me here. I have a ULA Circut and sometimes the High Sierra is above 90 degrees and I believe this will help.
Howdy Kristy! Well glad you made it this way and thanks for checking out the vid:) Now you know what 90 degrees looks like with this set up ha. It’s not dry but it’s darn refreshing when the breeze hits just right:)
Be well cheers
Excellent, objective review and even though you said it wasn't scientific, I actually think you followed the "scientific method" pretty well, by doing the same hike with and without the ventilation frame. It provided a "control" for your test. I have a Hyperlite SW 3400 55L (DCF pack), similar to the Kakwa with zero foam or absorbing material on the back, so I don't get any cooling back there and I almost dread taking off the pack when it's windy because my back just instantly chills to ice cold. It would be nice to have some ventilation back there to moderate that effect and maintain a steady evaporation off on hot days. Subbed and Looking forward to the longer term test!
Howdy Eric! Thank you very much for checking out the video and kind words!
The SW 3400 was the first on my initial list, love how that pack looks…hope it’s worked well for you. But yes, with the zero airflow you certainly do have a mess going on, and to your point quite chilly sometimes. Sometimes you want that refreshing breeze, sometimes it may also be dangerous if temps are low.
Using this system, feeling that breeze while your pack is on tho…that is a pretty special feeling it will definitely put a smile on your face the first time.
Would be interesting to see a minimal internal frame backpacking pack that has a mesh sleeve to insert or remove a ventilation system like this…
Thanks for checking out the vid and subscribing:) Cheers
Dig my Gregory Focal 48. Great light weight pack with traditional features like trampoline back and a brain. $185 on sale. Not ultralight but light weight enough and ultra comfortable at 38oz w/o Brain on my scale. Just wish it had bigger hip pockets for big iPhones, but not a deal breaker, great pack!
Zac, great review! How do you think this will fare with chafing in cases where your skin does directly contact some of the frame (e.g. whether you're wearing a minimalist tank top or even going shirtless)?
Thanks Mark! Really appreciate the comment :)
So, if I’m remembering correctly this was definitely a point of interest for me.
There is a very obvious rounding of the edges of the plastic so I was certain there wouldn’t be cutting or scratching of clothes or skin. On a long term use case regarding chaffing of the skin, this is going to depend a lot on your pack size, gear load out I would imagine. I think at some point with a heavy enough gear load out, you’re going to reach a common sense decision time if the frame is an add value or just not right for that particular application.
I will say I was able to do 17 miles with the frame on my Kakwa 55 loaded with 35 pounds and there was no damage to clothing, my pack, or chafing. With someone carrying 55 pounds, I can’t say what experience they might have but I’m sure there is a limit as with any piece of gear. Just have to choose the right gear selection for the right scenario I suppose.
Thanks for checking out the video!
This is too cool. I've been considering an ultralight backpack. But only one brand seems to have a mesh trampoline for ventilation... Now I can pick from any Brand and just add this simple device.
Howdy there! Glad you stumbled across a solution that may work for you. Another cool thing is it’s of course detachable, so you only need it when you need it. Pretty versatile.
Thanks for checking out the vid:)
To avoid sweat I put my sitpad between by fisrt layer and my skin and works fine ! My first layer is no more wet !
That’s an awesome idea! Thanks for sharing the tip here I’m actually legit going to give that a try on a short hike and see how it feels.
I like the space of fresh air the Vaucluse frame gave me, and it would be interesting to see how a softer touch spacer would feel. Awesome suggestion:)
Cheers
Hi, First time on your channel and I liked this video. The mother of all rules is "everything is a question of trade-off", and you've clearly demonstrated that. Well done.
"lost a waterballoon fight" LOL
As for the review... I'm very impressed. You've covered so many angles and gave some very good info as well. There's one thing tho, maybe I've missed that part, but... is it comfortable?
You have a new sub.
Howdy there ! Very much appreciate the comment and kind words, I forgot about the water ballon fight thing haha…
I certainly could have covered a little more in the comfort and wearability subject, true that.
So I can certainly say that under a pretty serious test last year with a 32-35 pound pack, totally fine and comfortable. It takes an initial moment to accept the feeling of a new material on your back as opposed to just a soft pack, but you quickly adapt to the more rigid form factor. I was wearing a tank top and sun hoody and didn’t get any wear spots or discomfort for many miles.
What I will say tho is there is a little finagling you may need to do when you load the pack onto your back. Things may not be lined up right away, maybe a clip may come undone ( it happens and Id love to see this as a focus of future design upgrades ) so you may need to re-shift and settle the pack / frame resting place before you cinch down on your load lifters and so on. After that, it’s as if it’s a part of the pack and sandwiched pretty solid between you and your pack for the journey.
Thanks for subbing !
Just ordered two of those frames because of your great review, I live in Germany and it's quite expensive to have to pay a lot of shipping and duties, but your test really convinced me!!! May I ask which size you have chosen on your Kakwa 55? It seems to sit very high on your hips. I'm just between two sizes, medium or small, with 17 inches of backlenght, mesured with a tape measure following the curve if my spine from the 7th CV to the iliocrest and upper line of my hipbones (I hope it is correct to do so). Now I really don't know which lengh I should chose, the smaller or the longer version. I even mailed with TDurston, but the say both would work. As I like to change between wearing my pack higher and lower and I also like to carry most of the wheight on my hips, I tend to chose the medium size as a 5.5 woman with 155 pounds. Can someone give advice who has the same problem to be between two sizes? And is it possible to bend the stay to follow the curve of your spine?
Howdy there! Thanks for checking out the video:)
Congrats on your new vent frames, I have no doubt you’ll enjoy them and the results :)
So this is a medium pack. I had tried the small and it was most certainly way too small and high up. I can’t recall precisely my measurements I believe it was between 17-19 but the medium fits me way way better than the small. Getting hip belts in the correct spot is sometimes tricky for me on account of the beer belly so maybe that’s why it looks high but after some adjustment it’s actually very easy to get this to ride right on top of my hips and fit nicely.
I can’t advise on the bending of the internal tube frame, but they do have a curvature as is that curves into the small of your back and ends right about where your belt line would be.
Best of luck with your new air frames and I hope you get the Kakwa that works best for you! Be safe be well
Cheers
I used a Vaucluse on my ULA Circuit back in March with a fully loaded 29 lb pack (including food water, and gear).
The vaucluse definitely kept my back a lot dryer as I normally sweat a lot. However, my pack tended to ride a little more caddywampus and rode differently between my hips and shoulders than when I hiked the rest of the trail without it. I think its better suited for lighter daypacks than for fully loaded multiday packs.
Howdy Mikey. I’m glad you brought up the long haul first hand experience!
My pack will be right about 25 pounds so I was curious how this will sit on the frame spacer heading up some major elevation gain all day. I definitely get the sense this is better suited for 20-35L packs or small 40L at most, I’ll see how this goes on a 55L with 25 pounds in a few weeks heading up to Pear Lake!
Thanks Mikey for sharing your feedback on the frame. Noted on the movement of the pack with the frame. A smaller airflow gap might be something we look into, specifically for larger packs. You've definitely given us food for thought.
Thank you for making this video. I came across this product as well and was hesitant in purchasing one since I wasn't able to find any testimonials. Really appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
You got it! Glad it was helpful. If you have a minimal pack and want to feel some cool air on your back, this will do it.
Cheers
How comfortable is it to keep that bear vault strapped on top? I was considering carrying one that way with my kakwa40 for a trip this summer but I was concerned with both comfort and how much it would move around and come lose while hiking longer miles.
Howdy there !
So I don't have a ton of experience just yet, but on my last backpacking trip I ended up with 32 pounds as a load out, some of that being the bear vault on the top roll, doing some pretty intense elevation gain loss for 18 total miles and it really wasn't anything I noticed as being uncomfortable or messing with my balance. The pack felt pretty solid and balanced correctly. The Y straps on the kakwa 55 were just about maxed out but fully adequate at cinching down the 475 BV canister, there was zero load shift. It helped a lot Im sure that I had my puffy as the top packed layer, so that have the vault something fitting to cinch down against and settle.
One thing I noticed right away however from early pack load out tests is those low hanging branches will knock you around pretty easy if you don't account for how much taller you are with the vault.
Im sure you will have the same experience with the 40, but Id definitely test it out before you hit a long adventure!
Be well and have fun :)
Did you have any trouble with getting the load to transfer to your hips correctly with the frame spacer?
Thats a great question ! I don't think I've seen this one before...
So something that I noticed using this on a larger format pack, the bottom of the spacer frame ends ( at least for my body dimensions ) right around T9-T10 on my back. So for my situation, the waist belt system is floating right beneath that and feels totally fine. Doing Pear Lake in the Sequoias with 32 -35 pounds, no problem
Thanks for the informative review. Anxious to see the verdict on the longer duration hike. For quantifying sweat loss, consider carrying a small scale in your backpack for the test. Weight your shirt before and after your hike and compare with and w/o the Vaucluse. Just a suggestion . . .
Howdy Hiker Bob!
Hey that’s not a bad idea…
So many factors, I wish I had some sort of environmentally controlled room for a treadmill test and shirt weigh in. Really hard to line up the same exact humidity, temperature, matched extension. This was a pretty loose test.
Ultimately my take away was I definitely am happy I’ll at least be able to aid the evaporation and cooling process. Until there’s no wind, and it’s all elevation gain, then I’m not sure what will happen.
Glad you enjoyed! Thanks for checking it out.
Cheers
I like this product to be honest, I have 3 of them for all my packs. I live in a very humid and hot environment so they help a bit, feeling air flowing on you back while having a pack is trippy like you said. I don’t feel the frame that much to say is annoying. I hope the company make an easier way to attach the frame to a backpack, the current system is kinda weird, also spacers for more area between the pack and your back. And I seriously hope and after party or the company make an attachable fan to the frame that would be a serious game changer.
Sounds like some pretty innovative ideas!
I’m glad someone else has experienced the airflow / cooling effect, I was hoping I wasn’t the only one the found it very interesting to feel when you’re so used to zero airflow.
I just took this on roughly 18 miles to alpine level, and as I imagined happening, the attachment point failed on me every time I took my pack on / off and I found myself having to be pretty mindful of being careful to unseat the plastic connection attachment points. It was an inconvenience, but I chalked this up to this frame spacer of not necessarily being designed for a 55L pack with 35 pounds in it! So overall I was still happy. But agreed, it would be great to see a more robust version for alpine backpacking. I’m sure no small challenge to do while keeping this product ultralight…
Thanks for checking out the vid!
@@zacmagers Sweet! Maybe try Velcroing the attachment points at the top and the bottom for a more secure fit? I haven’t taken them for a long hike yet so for prolonged trips I don’t know how I might feel about the frame. Anyway great video!
@forgemaster12 The next time I have a longer trip in the works, I definitely would like to try some velcro at the top, I like the idea of adjustments and being able to remove it if something goes wrong.
Thank you glad you enjoyed! That was a fun video to make
it's less about sweating less than it is about EVAPORATION, which is what cools you. But it is supergross to have a stinky backpack and to get the contents dry
Well put!
I was surprised to read about a study attempting to back up the suggestion you can pack less water due to evaporation assisted frames…yikes. Hopefully I’m not missing something here but that’s a dangerous message.
This Vaucluse frame just simply assisted in the evaporation process, gave me access to a cool breeze and kept that bacteria off my pack. Win for 3 ounces sacrifice
You don't get something for nothing. If you move the load farther from your back, it disrupts your centre of gravity more, pulls more against your shoulders, and generally makes the pack tougher to carry. It also looks like the frame will abrade base-layers and shells, which can be pretty expensive in the long run.
Newtons Third Law !
For sure and good points. When I have a moment, I wanted to experiment with a netting or lightweight breathable fabric sleeve that doesn't negate the point of the air frame. This abrasion concern came up in a previous comment and I think its worth exploring refinements in the design that ease folks concerns of fabric damage. SO far Im not seeing anything in my limited use ( 50 miles or so )
Interesting. I used my Kakwa 55 for 121 miles on the Ouachita Trail in Arkansas in November/December 2023. I couldn't believe how smelly the pack got. It cleaned up fine with a little hand wash in the bathtub and a little laundry detergent, but I've never had a pack get that stinky. That's also the longest I've been out on a trail though, so maybe that's just normal.
I would think that frame would really rub on your back, and even if it didn't irritate your skin, I would think it would tear up your clothing, if not your pack.
121 miles with the Kakwa that’s a solid test right there!
So you must have really got the fabric soaked and possibly even some salt lines? When I was researching for this video, I’m not ashamed to admit I don’t think I ever knew the smell from sweat was bacteria converting your odorless chemicals into a stinky enzyme…so that was kinda a red flag for me and wanting to keep that off of my pack PLUS keep salt build up off so animals don’t try and snack on my gear.
I’m glad a wash was able to help tho, seems simple enough.
To the second part of your comment, I too had this concern initially, it’s kinda a common sense concern to have. Different materials rubbing for long periods doesn’t take long to end in breakdown.
I’d still like to see some future iterations of the frame design at least approach a potential solution to eliminate any hard abrasive edges and so on, but in my experience so far, the packs weight plus the straps obviously pulled tight, there’s nowhere for the frame to wiggle around against the pack. Sure there’s micro movement but I can’t feel anything substantial.
The pack / frame do move opposite of your body at times tho, I did experience that but had no hot spots or damage to clothing. Would I personally put this design iteration on my down insulator jacket, probably not, but my sun hoodie or mid layers, without hesitation or concern for sure.
But again I imagine the Vaucluse team is working on new versions and it will be interesting to see how they address some folks concerns while keeping this at light as possible. 3 ounces is a small weight penalty for the payoff I’ve experienced in having a fresh air breeze on my back.
I wonder how this would feel with some sort of mesh sleeve over the air frame for extra abrasion control…
@@zacmagers Yeah, it seems like some kind of light weight breathable covering over the springy frame would help with wear and abrasion. Mesh Dyneema!
Mesh Dynema a new market haha ! Nice. Lightweight, could be a sustainable 100% recycled dyneema program, awesome.
Hey. Elephant in the room I didn't see fulylu addressed, is it comfortable?
Like, it's literally just hard plastic on your back, right? Wouldn't that be significantly less comfortable than just your pack?
Great question! I don't remember if I addressed this at all...
Towards the end of the video I think I recall trying to demonstrate the overall flexibility, how this will fit against your spine so on. The type of plastic this is and how thin it is, super comfortable and for sure flexes with your spine and back movements. That would be great to get on video sometime, Ill put it on the list !
Thanks for checking out the video
@@zacmagers Yeah, I was inquiring as to the hardness of the material itself and not really the flexibility, if that makes sense. For instance, do you think it would cut into your back if you're putting in a lot of miles (I'm hiking the AT)
@gladedextrose9898 Gotcha gotcha. So the edges are not squared off, there’s a soft radius on every part that directly touches your back and your gear. I can certainly say for the near 30 miles I did with a 35 pound pack, I had no issues. As far as potential hundreds of miles…I haven’t had it long enough to do so that kinda test.
@@zacmagers Alright. Thanks man
Is it not uncomfortable? Also it gives the pack more downward leverage so did your pack feel heavier?
Howdy Henry!
So being this was only a 2 mile hike test, I wouldn't feel confident stating '' this is absolutely comfortable for overnight multiday backpacking. '' Ill be putting this to a much more strenuous backpacking test in a couple weeks to decide if longterm use is comfortable.
For the two mile hike in this video, I would easily say yes, this was very comfortable in that timeframe and distance. The thin plastic flexes enough to move with the heavy pack and my body. Where I would say the design can improve is in the possible implementation of a more natural spine shape and the shoulder blade area containing less material. You have a lot of motion in the shoulder blades and pointy bone, doesn't work well with a flat plastic surface. Nothing concerns me so far about putting this to a large scale test tho, Im confident it will be OK. But the design needs iterations and improvements in my opinion.
I didn't notice the load of the pack feeling off kilter or leveraged differently. 3/4'' between your back and the pack is not insignificant but not out of line with what you may see with typical padding and anti sweat designs / comfort materials already on lightweight or traditional packs. When I see packs with the trampaline design spacing, I wonder how in the world is that not significantly increasing leverage and pack weight pulling you back. But I didn't feel that way with this spacer frame.
In a couple weeks Ill be putting roughly 20 miles and thousands in elevation gain / loss on this frame spacer, so Ill report back on issues that arise if any.
Thanks for checking out the vid ! Cheers
thanks for the thoughtful response and good luck on your trip : ) @@zacmagers
Zac 👨🔬 Lab FTW
The sweaty sciences!
Regardless of which pack I wear, I sweat like a pig. I recently purchased a ULA Circuit. Before that pack I had a Granite Gear Crown 2
I sweat no matter what, I'm not an ultralight backpacker. I'm a weekend worrier, that enjoys comfort.
Nothing we can do about sweat, part of the game! That Granite Gear Crown is a good looking pack, was checking that out a couple weeks ago at the Backcountry that opened down the street.
Thanks for checking out the vid!
Cheers
New sub 🙏🏼
Howdy! Thank you so much for checking out the channel, and your support!
Have anyone tried running with this frame, will it make everything unstable?
subbed
Right on! Welcome aboard and thanks for your support:) Good way to start the week for sure
My experience wearing knee pads for outdoor work, shows me that it is very uncomfortable to have non breathable neoprene, cordura, etc against the skin in the heat. If it were not to prevent bruising, etc then there's no way I would choose to walk around or even hike with a non breathable fabric on. For that reason, I prefer external frame packs.
That is pretty expensive for what it is.
It looks like it's worth trying IF he comes down significantly on the price and doesn't require a purchase of two in order to get a discount.
Howdy!
External frame packs are something Ive always been curious to try out on a overnight, maybe something vintage to experience the era of early developing gear for the backcountry. And I agree with you, ventilation feels pretty dang good!
I just did about 17 miles with the Vaucluse ventilation frame and put it to a real test. The cost of making something in the USA, pretty challenging to keep the cost / profit margins balanced but Im sure with company growth the price point could be more appealing over time. Im watching this with any new supplier with leading solutions in the backpacking market like Durston, hopefully as customers order more, higher amounts of materials can be ordered from suppliers and the cost eventually passed down to you.
Im anxious to see how this ventilation frame evolves in design and hopefully the price point does as well for more folks to try :)
Cheers !
@@zacmagers Thank you very much for your perspective. I appreciate your details on the device in this video and look forward to your future experiences.
My go to for externals is a different category , but most of my trips are summer and favorite locations require water carry. Everyone has preferences and mine is the Jansport D3&5, which are no longer produced. It is a small tube dia ergonomic aluminum frame with a load shelf on top rather than the bottom as hunting load haulers use. This is unique as it suspends all weight and transfers it high and close as an external can. Angles are adjustable and there are articulating extension hip wings that can be bent to conform as desired around the sides of the pelvic girdle. Without feeling out on the details now, I use internals to but have yet to beat the vintage technology in my personal experiences. Like you, back sweats, but it does with no pack as well. The difference is that of a breathable fabric evaporating sweat as compared to a plastic rain poncho with that portion against the skin where most perspiration seems to occur.
BTW, I weighed the frame of my D3, it is 2.1 pounds on my digital scale. I plan to design new packs that can utilize the frame depending on needs.
I purchased another factory direct after they were phased out, as an extra to replace when necessary. My best friend got one too and still uses it exclusively. I have yet to damage the aluminum tubing/ frame on my original and expect it to outlast me.
I appreciate American made too and your perspective on pricing. Perhaps I with try one sometime with one of my U.L. builds next season.
☕😎👍🌳🐿️
Best regards fellow backpacker!
could you use a beaded car seat cover for the same thing?
Howdy Mr
That is so interesting…yeah maybe!
The one differentiator I can see right away is the hallow side profile of the Vaucluse design has cross section flow built in for air space that beads won’t have. At least in my experience thus far, that side wind / air / breeze through the hollow section is key to this companies design. You have a 360 degree opportunity for air flow and on a breezy day, man you can really feel it.
yeah it looks like it will help and not add weight@@zacmagers
@Mr.E_Bodhako That’s an interesting idea for sure. Time to get some old school taxi seats and try it out !
sry in my previous response i meant the Vaucluse product looks like it would vent more as you say without adding too much weight, the beads might be heavier and not vent as much as you say. but might be worth a try idk @@zacmagers
Definitely vents from the side as is, and it’s pretty crazy how good the breeze feels from the side. That’s in extreme weather tho. It was so hot when I did this experiment.
I’m pretty excited to see what Vaucluse does next I’m so ready to try it out.
You need to run this test at lower temperatures such as in the 60’s.
Howdy!
Thats actually a really good idea, this was at one extreme end of the spectrum and worse case.
This is a tricky test, finding duplicate temperature days, do we test in the wind or no wind. This is a pretty unscientific test ha. BUT, I think you are right, a cooler 50-60 degree test would be good especially since this is a temperature typically experienced at altitude and the sweat may be easier to visually measure since you most likely wont just be dripping like you would from 90 degree weather.
Its a good time to do that with the colder weather, Ill put it on the video list! Great suggestion.
Cheers
Why not just using your load lifters to tilt top of the pack backwards to create this gap? You only need your pack to be close to you on some technical terrain or some kind of water pass) I mean, ok, you want to buy UL backpack to save weight while sacrifising comfort and vent and add weight to create (DIS)comfort and vent) BTW you were sweaty all the way even without the pack touching you)
Also your sweat does nothing to a pack back, cause ultra 200 by itself is a waterproof material - it won`t absorb any sweat)
Hello Roman, thanks for this very practical thought !
Load lifters : Im genuinely curious what you mean by lifting the load lifters to create a gap? You mean loosen the pack, allow it to hang slightly lower and away from you so there is some airflow? I recall doing something like this in school with a backpack in summer so I think I can wrap my head around the concept. Im not sure how long I personally would feel comfort in doing that with 20 -30 pounds over 20 or more weekend warrior miles, sounds like it would be very uncomfortably but I understand the concept ! Have you has success with this?
Adding weight to UL pack : True that, quite literally a level of contradiction here you are correct. In all honesty, the Kakwa 55 ended up being my choice not primarily because of its ultralight spec, but primarily the design. Maybe someday Ill have a change of taste but for now, Im not a fan personally of traditional backpack designs with foam padding and so on, too much to list. The Kakwa is just super simple and exaclty my kinda style, like a pack Id design myself if I had the skills. Ultimately, adding 3 ounces for an experiment wasn't concerning.
Sweat : You are absolutely correct, parts of my chest, and shoulders were already sweaty before the experiment even started, it was pretty hot! Maybe next time I need to do a control test ? same temperature, same time of day, no pack?
Ultra 200 : Well you are correct its damn close to %100 waterproof, but is will soak in eventually around threads unfortunately. Theres some interesting shower test with Kakwa. Id also like to go ahead and keep the salt / bacteria ( stink ) off my pack regardless.
Thanks for checking out the video and I really appreciate your time to comment!
@@zacmagers Yo, thank you for response - no offence) Of course it will not stand against shower or rain cause seams will leak, I meant the back itself which is mostly a sheet of ultra) Yes, I use this method on my backpack, and reason I got your video in my recommendations is I’ve just ordered kakwa 40 and have no fear of doing this with it. I’m not really good with pounds and miles, so my last trips over weekend for 30 km with approximately 13 kg backpack was fairly comfortable. I didn’t feel any pain in my waist or shoulders, but I am sweating anyway, so I was also trying to keep my pack from sweat, which absorbs it generously)
I wasn’t going to tell you are doing something wrong, I am confused with this “invention” that complicates a pack, that was meant to be as simple as possible)
Never any offense here you had some valid thoughts :)
Oh my goodness 13kg ! Am I doing my conversion wrong or is that not 66 pounds oh my. Thats intense. Sounds like you are more in shape than I am I have a long way go...
With some things in the outdoors and gear, simpler can absolutely be better. Its fun to try new things and fabrics sometimes too, nerd out on it!
@@zacmagers Do not worry, I’m considering myself in a bad shape) Hello, I even got herniated, but it didn’t remind about itself last year) That was 13 kg with full water and food load. The base weight was about 9 kg, so I decided to lighten equipment over winter - for now I’ve managed to drop to 6,3 kg without sacrificing any comfort, or even increasing some, like adding a zero chair and ditching msr freelite 2 for xmid 2
This digs into your shoulders, don’t buy it. I walked for 30 second with it, stopped, took it off and tossed it in the dumpster.
Howdy chuck! Bummer you had a bad experience with it. What pack were you using?
So let's analyze this
People want a cheaper backpack because
$370-$400 with a trampoline back is too expensive
So you show a $260 backpack with no trampoline back and $260 is a really good price.
But then you show an accessory that costs $100 which basically turns a non-trampoline backpack into one, at basically the same price they said was too expensive.
Congratulations, you played yourself.
Hello there!
I appreciate you taking time to check out the video and share your thoughts, you actually bring up a point about TWO things I could have been more specific about, thank you.
1 ) My pricing breakdown section of this video was primarily to encourage those who want to get into backpacking and really need some serious budgeting considerations, but would like to buy in the right direction of pro gear. In my personal opinion, the Durston Kakwa 55 is a fantastic well rounded ultralight option at a very reasonable cost for what you are getting.
2 ) I should have specified that the frame in this video, is the generation 2 offering from Vaucluse. The generation 1 frame is quite a different looking design that I have not tested. So, with the very capable Kakwa 55 for $260 and the generation 2 frame for $37 I was able to suggest an alternate for those that really need help with ideas on costing. With my pairing example in this video coming in at roughly $300 I was able potentially help save someone $70-100 that they possibly really need to spend on something else like a higher quality sleeping bag or boots.
Hopefully that clarified some answers to the points you make. Thank you very much for checking this out and sharing your thoughts!
Cheers
@@zacmagers There was no question. I was simply pointing out the price contradiction which is just funny to me
looks dumb
Ha, short and sweet! Well thanks for checking out the vid tho:)
It's not supposed to make u sweat less , it's supposed to help keep u cooler ... and it does exactly that , be honest with urself .. u know damn well it worked perfectly
Hello there, thank you for the comment!
If Im understanding the comment correctly, it appears you understood my thoughts and message in this video. I agree, this frame certainly does keep you cooler through some pretty nice evaporation assistance. I wasn't too surprised I didn't sweat less but I was really surprised and happy with that cool breeze I felt for the first time wearing this pack this summer. In the sense of keeping me cooler, I would agree with you, it performed exactly as it was intended.
All the best
Cheers