Many interesting things here. I was unaware of pre-Greek. I searched on this topic and I guess you are referring to the work of Robert Beekes? I would be interesting to know what you think about pre-Greek. It sounds in some ways like another search for an ursprache, one more artificial language that nobody ever spoke. Is this endeavor different from the search for proto-IndoEuropean? In the family tree of European languages how many of these hypothetical languages are there (if indeed there are any of these constructs that have validity). Thanks for your efforts to illuminate us!
Thank you as always for your insightful comments. Yes, I agree that the danger in attempting to reconstruct the "pre-Greek substrate" as if it is one language or even a family of multiple languages is exactly the same as the artificial reconstruction of protolanguages that I talked about in that previous episode. Same is true for the parallel project of reconstructing broad, generic families for the "pre-Roman" languages, such as what we call "Etruscan." I especially dislike labels like "pre-Greek" or "pre-Roman" because it makes it seem as though all of those languages labelled as such existed simply to be superseded by one chosen language. The fact is that "Greek" words across dialects for local plants, natural features, gods, technologies, cities, body parts, and the very idea of human beings cannot be plausibly reconstructed in relationship to its artificial language family (IE). Rather than focussing on how the ancient Greek language is related to English, Hindi, or German, I like to focus on how the entire worldview of the various versions of the language we call Greek were forged in and around the places they emerged. Hope that is helpful as you think about this thorny issue.
@@lifespotluckbuffet Thanks, I appreciate this comment, it helps me to keep things in perspective. I agree that the main reason for studying an ancient language (or any other language for that matter) is that we gain access to a worldview different than our own. My own study has been focused on classical Latin, and it is interesting how over time an understanding of that world view creeps up on you--sometimes as much as a function of syntax as of the other obvious aspects of the language. To me it seems like as the language evolved and as the syntax changed, which was happening, for example, by the time of the Vulgate, there is something lost, or more accurately perhaps, we come closer to appreciating the worldview that was exhibited in more classical Latin. Thanks again for your always interesting and thoughtful discussions!
Many interesting things here. I was unaware of pre-Greek. I searched on this topic and I guess you are referring to the work of Robert Beekes? I would be interesting to know what you think about pre-Greek. It sounds in some ways like another search for an ursprache, one more artificial language that nobody ever spoke. Is this endeavor different from the search for proto-IndoEuropean? In the family tree of European languages how many of these hypothetical languages are there (if indeed there are any of these constructs that have validity). Thanks for your efforts to illuminate us!
Thank you as always for your insightful comments. Yes, I agree that the danger in attempting to reconstruct the "pre-Greek substrate" as if it is one language or even a family of multiple languages is exactly the same as the artificial reconstruction of protolanguages that I talked about in that previous episode. Same is true for the parallel project of reconstructing broad, generic families for the "pre-Roman" languages, such as what we call "Etruscan." I especially dislike labels like "pre-Greek" or "pre-Roman" because it makes it seem as though all of those languages labelled as such existed simply to be superseded by one chosen language. The fact is that "Greek" words across dialects for local plants, natural features, gods, technologies, cities, body parts, and the very idea of human beings cannot be plausibly reconstructed in relationship to its artificial language family (IE). Rather than focussing on how the ancient Greek language is related to English, Hindi, or German, I like to focus on how the entire worldview of the various versions of the language we call Greek were forged in and around the places they emerged. Hope that is helpful as you think about this thorny issue.
@@lifespotluckbuffet Thanks, I appreciate this comment, it helps me to keep things in perspective. I agree that the main reason for studying an ancient language (or any other language for that matter) is that we gain access to a worldview different than our own. My own study has been focused on classical Latin, and it is interesting how over time an understanding of that world view creeps up on you--sometimes as much as a function of syntax as of the other obvious aspects of the language. To me it seems like as the language evolved and as the syntax changed, which was happening, for example, by the time of the Vulgate, there is something lost, or more accurately perhaps, we come closer to appreciating the worldview that was exhibited in more classical Latin. Thanks again for your always interesting and thoughtful discussions!