00:00 Intro 02:50 Charles-(CA) | God Did The Big Bang 19:15 Kevin-NV | Accidentally Creating A Harmful Religious Environment 38:18 Bob-VA | Atheism Is Just An Argument From Personal Incredulity 56:31 Emily-MA | Does Mental Illness Increase Drive Towards Religion 1:09:41 Aaron-IL | God Is Supernaturally Organic Biological Material 1:26:59 Andrew-MI | Evolution Vs Creation Is A Coin Toss 1:40:45 Outro
So if there were a god I wouldn’t care because I still would not worship it. I also don’t think there are any gods except as constructs aka human created ideas.
Towards the end....It's painful to explain that the theory of evolution is beyond speculation. It's more robust than the theory of gravitation fields. Its so ridiculously robust that there is NO question as to the validity. It's scientific theory. Its as far as we can go on provable truth. For some reason some people don't understand theory is more robust than fact. This is a major issue for such a huge part of the population. Theory trumps fact. Fact is an observation and theory explains it with falsifiable work that cements it. Thoroughly. Very, very, very thoroughly.
@@Pandemos To be fair, the theory of gravitation fields is VERY complicated, especially with special and general relativity. But the gravitational constant and the effects of gravity is VERY well understood and used with amazing precision. We are making microsecond per day adjustments in GPS signals to take into account time dilation caused by gravitational fields, for gods sakes. So in some ways, it's more "robust" than evolution.
Bob: athiest only have an argument from incredulity. Also bob: I don't know how reality could exist any other way. I think there's a word for that argument.
It's like they know all the positions, they know the logic, they may even have studied evolution and understand it but then it all proves god. Congrats man, you have an unfalsifiable belief. There is no way to disprove your argument.
Bob lost any goodwill with me when he started to argue that most atheists just don’t want to be told what to do. You know what Bob, you are right. I don’t want bigoted, sexist, greedy, close minded people telling me what to do while saying it’s an all powerful god that “really” says I should do these things. And yes, I am using extreme examples, but he went with a broad generalization so I feel justified doing the same, right or wrong.
We especially don't want to be told what to do by people who claim to speak for a god and the god says we are supposed to give them money and we will be rewarded after we die.
And with 10,000 religions vying to be the one to tell me what to do and what to think, sometimes contrary to empathy and often contrary to evidence … seems to me to be less about a supernatural entity and more about people wanting to control people.
He lost my goodwill when SR managed to demonstrate that Bob wasn't even trying to participate in a conversation, but just waiting for his turn to talk. It certainly happens with some non-theists as well, but damn, how common is that utterly aggravating behaviour from theists? Is it really that they've learned even that from their preachers - to preach instead of conversing? If so, then religion has done even _more_ serious damage to society...
Yeah provide evidence of your claim then ill think about whether I've broken it's rules. I'm sure these people don't care if they've broken the rules of Zorg
I'm going to call up Bob, tell him I'm a Nigerian prince willing to send him $10 million for just $10,000 to prove he is serious. If he pushes back, I'll just tell him he's refusing to believe me from personal incredulity.
Bob: "atheists are just hard-headed, they won't believe the truth" Shannon: "actually I'm an atheist because no one can even give me a definition of God that's coherent, can you?" Bob: "*chuckles nervously* uh... What's reality?" Congratulations Bob you just disproved yourself and gave the real reason why people are atheists, it's because we ask for evidence and you can't provide any.
@@Locust13 indeed the "Bobs" of this world often show that they have no idea what evidence is, why it might be needed, or why they believe what they believe, if indeed they can even describe what it is that they believe.
I love how these discussions always boil down to epistemological nihilism. "Well, that's just your personal opinion. Well, you don't even know what reality is." It's all vibes with these people.
The moment he said atheists are suffering from personal incredulity at the beginning of his call, I immediately thought "I bet this guy is projecting". He confirmed it (and this original comments threaded point) when he said "so you just think everything has happened by chance". That statement reeks of personal incredulity by strawmaning any and all natural explanations.
Andrew might be the caller that baffles me the most. “We don’t have direct observation of evolution.” “Actually, here’s a ton of examples of direct observations of evolution.” “But we don’t have direct observation of evolution.” He just blatantly refuses to accept observable reality. Absolutely wild.
when I first listened to a course of evolition it simply came across like logical, observable and conclusive to me providing a host of answers to questions that I have put before me before. If you ever had anything like an ant farm, an aquarium or any kind of short-living metabolism culture (bacteriums, viruses) evolution can be seen in real time
Ok, fine, we don't. So Andrew must have direct observation of god else he wouldn't believe right? Come on Andrew, what direct observation of god do you have to show us?
I call this " flat earth mentality" these type of people have no interest in truth or having a conversation. I will walk away from these people 10 times out of 10. There is literally no point even trying to talk to such an individual. You can show them obvious, indisputable proof all day long and they'll still come back with some shit like " i got my own degree " or some other nonsense. Total waste of time.
There's a commenter here that makes the same argument. Says that no one has observed speciation. Nevermind that it can be easily done in the lab with fruit flies. And there are countless examples in the wild. They think that because they themselves are ignorant and can't understand the concepts that it must not be real.
Also, Shannon, you're awesome at this! You are intelligent, a clear and concise communicator (I especially appreciate how you give examples), good at holding callers accountable to their previous statements and preventing run-on filibuster conversations, and I really appreciate how high your standards are for yourself to only comment strongly on topics you have fully investigated. You're a wonderful example of an honest and reasonable skeptic, and I'm glad you're doing more of these shows. Just had to say. ❤️
Not only was he not persuasive, more than half of call wasn't even about his argument. It was just him complaining about how he's so good at convincing people that he turns them all into Darth Vader by accident.
OMG. Bob just literally made an argument from personal incredulity while trying to explain why atheist is an argument from personal incredulity. And why the fuck is he getting angry?
I felt like based on his definition, every argument is an argument from incredulity. You don’t believe me when I said I saw Bigfoot? Incredulous! You have a ton of evidence for your stance, but you won’t accept the iffy evidence for mine? Incredulous! More to it than that Bob.
He's getting angry because someone not believing the same bullshit he does is pretty much a personal attack for him since he's linked his religion to his personality on a deeply emotional level...
Gods are such fragile things; they may be killed with a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. They thrive on servility and shrink from independence.
biggest issue with atheists right now. They in no way really address religion. Sure, people will reply to that in droves, saying, "but we point out that science shows the big bang, abiogenesis, evolution, and basically everything else can be explained materially, and so we've removed the need for God". And the fact that basically every atheist would take this as a case demonstrates why they don't understand religion to any capacity; at least not how religions were originally. To explain why this case doesn't address religion, let's look at how one should actually think about it. Everything is a viewpoint. As an example of what I mean, imagine Looking at a glass. You could look at it and see something to drink from (this is the primary view we use, and in fact as cognitive science reveals we see the world first in uses and then in shapes) you could also see it as a bunch of glass molecules in tight formation, and you could see it as a union of chaos and order, seeing the chaotic parts balancing out the orderly parts resulting in a glass. None of these views are superior or more true than others, and we can switch between them depending on what we want to do with the glass/what our aims are. Mixing views, though, would be ridiculous. Nobody looks for something to drink from within the glass molecules. Nobody looks for chaos and order within a bunch of glass molecules. Yet, when it comes to religion, everyone looks for God while actively looking at the world scientifically. Understanding this, we can say that to see God you don't look for things we can't explain. To see God, You change your idea of him, understand the religious lens, and he becomes visible. Seeing God is like seeing a glass as a balancing union of chaos and order. It's about re-learning religious languages and the religious view. Sure, you can see and understand the world without using it, but just like you can't do many things with a glass unless you change what you see it as, you can't see deeper things of reality without religion. If there's one thing I've sadly learned, then its that nobody bothers actually reading through anything long. But, if you actually read to the end of this please feel free to ask me to go into more detail about what I said, or explain what God is/what the Christian lens is. And also PLEASE respond to people who reply to this comment with something like "prove there's a God who acts in ways science can't explain" with a clown emoji.
I loved the way Shannon talked over the people trying to interrupt her while she was trying to make a point. She could teach a master class in controlling a conversation.
yeah I love that too. Its like shes more then willing to give you the room and hear you out but if you are disrespectful and like to talk over people.....she can play that game too. Really drives the point home
@@ishmaelkelly951 you sure? cuz Matt doesnt have this kind of skill. He rather goes off the rail and hangs up on people but talking over people? Havent seen him doing that
The theists who call in to your shows are more entertaining and humorous than all the late night, comedians like Seth Myers, and Jimmy Kimmel, that I love. I also learn so much about science and evolution and you continue to reinforce my understanding the best evidence to help me more understand the world I live in thank you
A straightforward question does not necessarily imply there is a straightforward answer. “How many hairs do you have on your head right now?” The Romans - well, those who had time for that kind of stuff - worried about that and had their hair counted. So, care to answer this straightforward, simple question?
@@advorak8529the answer is “I don’t know” or “I’d have to count but you can also just look it up for an estimate” that isn’t at a all a question that would have a story answer to it so you just sound dumb
@Rebel Son The majority of Theists have been Theist since they were very young. How can any one of those people honestly state that they've improved due to their religion?
doesnt matter if you make a distinction like Emily did. If her thesis really was correct you would see a direct correlation between religion and mental disorders after a few generations. There are a lot of mental disorders which can easily be exploited to manipulate individuals so again....not really a surprise
this is always surprising to me. How can people are so much looking for an answer and fail to pick up on some knowledge in the process? I get that some topics are really hard so having a teacher to lead you through the basics is a necessity but for the most part its easy to claim that people like that are not looking for answers...they are looking for an angle of attack to push their own narrative
Bob calls in claiming that most atheists employ an argument from personal incredulity - then proceeds to make an argument from personal incredulity in attempting to make the case for God's existence. Oh, the irony...
Aaron: God is incomprehensible. SR: You said God is incomprehensible and are now telling us you understand God. Aaron: Yes, God is incomprehensible. Aaron ignores SR's point and everyone moves on as if nothing happened.
Erica (Gitsick Gibbon) pointed out that strategy of Christians arguing and now I notice it all the time. Christian: "have you considered point A?" Atheist: "point B counters it" Christian: "ah but have you considered...point A?"
@@williamproffitt6688 agreed, but you can't say you understand something you have declared non-understandable (again). It is logical "having your cake and eating it". Most things that I can conceive existing ( for example a cheque for a billion dollars made out to me from Mr Musk - I would be grateful) don't exist.
Andrew- The one person who does not Understand evolution is the one trying to tell the people who do understand evolution they don’t understand evolution. Did I get that right Andrew?🤣🤣🤣🤣
Kevin, the great influencer. I’ve never heard anyone less convincing than him. I think these people he has “persuaded” are just saying “yeah, yeah, sure” to end the interaction with him. I don’t think even he understands what he thinks.
Shannon is one of, if not, my favorite host. Maybe nice to a fault (until she reaches her limit), but that has allowed contentious situations to become fruitful, instead of crashing and burning. ----for the record.... I know my sentence structure at the beginning of that statement is probably trash. But, I couldn't figure out how to write the thought.
I like Forrest but I like SR as well. But Forrest would have had a field day with some of the science questions, such as Charles-CA and his complete misunderstanding of the big bang theory. And with Aaron-IL and his complete misunderstanding of abiogenesis. And with Andrew-MI and his complete misunderstanding of evolution.
Loved having Shannon back on AXP! Was looking forward to seeing her with Forrest Valkai again but Secular Rarity did a good job addressing the callers as well!
basically my stance as well. Not knowing doesnt help me. I am fatalistic about certain things like dying or growing old so I accept them even tho I dont like them but thats because they are observable, reliable and are facts of life. Science also acknowledges them but still continues to research and investigate them in order to get us humans forward. Religion maintains a status quo and doesnt look for answers apart from the ones designated by a few powerful men who place themselves at the center of it as prohets or speakers or whatnot. They cannot be questioned, cannot be challenged and if somebody does its usually followed by violence or defamation in order to silence them. I have zero respect for religions and religious leaders and thats by their own actions
OMG! The look on SR and Shannon's faces when Andrew-MI claimed that he has a biology degree! I had the exact same reaction 😂. How the H*LL do you not know that there are CONCRETE evidences of speciation? Wait! Did he get his biology degree from Kent Hovind? Cause that perfectly explains the call.
We have not observed speciation. Saying we have is an often repeated, un-evidenced, atheist lie. It's apparently true that evolution has occurred but we have not actually observed it occurring.
@@johnsmith-ju5ns Understood. You've not read any research papers on speciation, nor looked up the Wiki article that references examples of speciation, nor even done a simple Google search for "examples of speciation". Got it.
Yeah, apparently there are Creationist colleges that offer biology degrees. The caller might actually have one, but I can't imagine who would hire someone with a biology degree and doesn't even agree with the foundations of the discipline.
Well, obviously people didn't hire him. I can imagine the interview where he walks into a lab and starts spouting his creationist nonsense. He certainly never gave a clue about having learned any biology.
After listening to the guy talk about speciation under full Dunning-Kruger effect, I doubt he has an actual undergraduate degree from an accredited college. If you went to a decent high-school, you would know that there are actual examples of speciation. And the fact that he didn't understand any of the points that SR and Shannon brought up is another evidence.
I'm really sorry, but you've brought the pedant out in me. What Mencken actually wrote, in a 1920 collection of essays called “Prejudices: Second Series”, was "there is always a well-known solution to every human problem-neat, plausible, and wrong." But your point remains pretty much the same: even wrong answers can seem satisfying. BTW, very nearly the form of words you used seem to have first appeared in 1983 in an article in “Reason” magazine.
Bob accuses atheists of arguing from incredulity, yet from his ramblings he seems to be saying that he believes in god because he can’t see his reality could be the way it is without a God. Which is an argument from incredulity.
The problem with Charles, is that he’s fine with VISIONS giving people information.. and if you’ve ever had stoner roommates, you’d understand how annoying that is.. As soon as you try to explain the “Science” of “VIsions” you are at a loss.
No no no the real problem with Charles is that he's absolutely coo coo banana brains. With a bunch of stupidity sprinkled in there. That's what the hosts were tip toeing around because they didn't want to be offensive.
he is also a cheater because teachers are regularly checked in order to see if their knowledge is up to date or aligns with the material they use. If he would provide this kind of answers to scientific enquiries he d be GONE in a second so I d say he abuses his position to corrupt the education system because he is not okay with the scientific explanations but is alright with lying his way through the checkpoints in order to keep his position
@@fritzhaselnuss7852 Did he say he was a teacher? If he did, I missed it -- and it's even worse than I thought... I thought he said that he studied biology, or had a degree in biology in college...
@@The5armdamput33 Andrew never said he teaches biology. And he said he doesn't even work in that field. But it's not clear whether he received his biology degree from an accredited university.
SR is an incredible listener. The way he gives soft verbal assents when Shannon Q is talking, the way he promotes listening with the caller, and the way he empathetically listens to the caller is quite amazing. So many hosts of this show make me a better thinker. I feel like SR makes me a better person.
So let me get this straight. Bob believes in God because "what else could it have been" but atheists are engaged in an argument from incredulity because they don't believe things without good evidence? This logic is so twisted that it's kind of fascinating.
Bob making a point about "personal incredulity" fallacy while not actually understanding the fallacy itself was laughable. Basically he lives in a resonance chamber of confirmation bias.
Lmao Bob blaiming atheists for making arguments from personal incredulity while he himself is doing an argument from personal incredulity. What a fool.
Shannon and SR, who are both bright and educated, as well as charming and funny hosts, did a great job on this show..... Excellent team work an very enjoyable show..... I'm ready for an encore!!!!
@@will-i-am386 I think so too. Shannon is a lot more patient then Matt and she endured and also engaged with callers Matt would ve dropped ina heartbeat
So I was raised both Pentacostal (mother's side) and Southern Baptist (father's side). I had hallucinations, mostly visual, beginning around 7 years old. I also "spoke in tongues" at my mother's church. I told her once of seeing Jesus' hands while praying. I also wrote her a note about a man that followed me that I couldn't see that would go above me, around me, otherwise dissappear when I tried to turn and see...ultimately very scary...and when I prayed and it wouldn't go away I ultimately prayed to Satan to take it away! (I didn't tell her that part) I also didn't share any of the other hallucinations I had growing up because I was convinced I had "demons inside of me" by both sides. I'm almost 40 now and diagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder which manifests in hallucinations with me. It's very much under control now. And I'm very much out of the control of any religion and an atheist, which I find very separate.
Charles strikes me as the type of person who has been trying to find people who agree with his crap for a long time and is very pissed off that nobody gets his perspective. But also, he strikes me as someone who's never questioned his perspective and tried to line it up with reality.
My #1 pet peeve is people, especially those who don't know me, telling me how I think/feel/believe/etc. Props to Shannon during her discussion with Bob.
"Bob" sounds a lot like the 30-day cycle dude. He also argues the same way, where he believes his assertions are proof of themselves and expects his conversation partner to disprove them.
Aaron likes to pick and choose at a whim, eve though half the stuff he picks completely contradicts the other stuff he picks, all because he’s not got a clue when he’s doing it.
Would that be the Patriot Bible University (PBU), formerly known as Patriot University? It appears to be an unaccredited Independent Baptist correspondence school located in Del Norte, Colorado.
I'm just now watching TAE after years of hiatus and I absolutely adore Shannon Q and SR. You two are a dynamic duo when it comes to dealing with something this important in the world. You both show immaculate tact, professionalism, and compassion while not allowing people to short change themselves or the call at the same time. Your call with "Kevin" was most impressive. ❤️More of you two, please?
This idea of a "mutation rate" is so silly since the rate that mutations accumulate at is wholly dependant on the environment and not in any shape or form a constant rate. It's not even constant between individuals of the same species (because of the environment) and absolutely not the same between different species. If he actually had a degree in biology he'd know that and ANYONE should be able to figure that out on their own if they understand even the most basic things about what causes mutations.
That and offspring aren't perfect clones of their parents. It could be more desirable looks that allow more procreation. It could also be the extinction of a species allowed a more vunerable species to become popular. Look I just don't want to say its solely environmental. Its too vague.
For those that don't know what the Azusa street revival is it's basically a bunch of preachers throwing themselves on the ground and "speaking in tongues" and all religious people were very impressed and saw it as a sign that they had received the holy spirit. People were healed and all that jazz. Basically the more extreme of the Pentecostals these days.
@@NotAPacifist825 I'll bet all those philosophers and theologians are pissed that all you had to do was throw yourself on the ground and speak in tongues to prove God.
Someone needs to inform Charles that the Big Bang isn't an "explosion", which invalidates his entire argument about Genesis describing the "explosion" of the Big Bang.
It IS an explosion (and still on-going), but naming it "Big Bang" was unfortunate and a boon for God-believers. We don't yet know when/how/if the BB began. (I doubt the real NDT would say what you've said here because Webster says explosion is "a spectacular expansion"...please change your nym and photo)
@@johnsmith-ju5ns sure, if you want to use specific definitions, you could say that it was an "explosion". In the traditional sense (especially in the way that Charles was trying to use it), however, the BB is not an explosion. I'm not sure why you'd want me to change my name. It's quite obvious that I'm not the real Neil DeGrasse Tyson (indicated by the ending words "with a Knife", followed by an image of NDT holding a knife). Do you think I'm trying to impersonate NDT or something??
@@neildegrassetysonwithaknife Look, if it is, and it is, "a spectacular expansion" then it is an explosion, and you are just a common troll, looking for any ol response you can muster. Bye.
I think Charles needed to be immediately corrected about his idea that the big bang was literally an explosion. Also: you don't need anything to get rid of carbon monoxide because carbon monoxide was the best resource for organisms to live on at that time. It just so happens that oxygen was the garbage they expelled in return and they expelled so much of it that it saturated the waters and we're still breathing it. We just so happened to evolve during a time in which oxygen was prevalent so organism started to use it.
I would kind of like to see Charles write his notes of what this person was seeing at each step of Genesis for curiosities sake. The text has an earth before let there be light, so how does he see that fitting to the Big Bang? What were they seeing when describing a vault separating waters? I just wanted him to answer the hosts about why he insisted it was a vision. He said that must have been the case. I could argue god must have moved the pen. Or that the writer must have translated it from golden plates. He was so ultra focused on how he’d been able to explain it, that he hadn’t thought the entire thing through.
Charles, I've been present when someone died and didn't see any energy leave it. So right off the bat, you've got a problem. Then you start the hydraulic cycle in mid-stride with mist coming up from the ground equating to evaporation.
Bob isn't there for a conversation, he admitted it when asked to respond to Shannon. He just replied, "I just wanted her to see it my way" or somethign similar. Basically, he's not listening, he's just preaching at you and waiting for his turn to speak. And then pulled out the "puddle" fallacy about the Earth not being able to veer a degree off, which had been debunked so often.. apologetics 101 right there. Amazing he TRIES (and fails) to pin argument from incredulity to the fact that you aren't convinced by his assertions without ANY evidence.
I'm not absolutely certain but I believe that when creationists say "we've never seen x" what they mean is if they put their fingers in their ears close their eyes sing "la la la I don't see anything" and don't look at the evidence they don't have to admit to have seen it.
But they don't apply that same standard for their belief in god. I mean if they don't believe evolution simply because they haven't observed it then they must have observed god else it would be hypocritical. So I want to ask them when and how and what did it look like when they observed god.
I think i've had the misfortune to run into Bob (or someone like him) recently. He argued; a) Intelligent beings (us) create complex things. b) Complex things are created by intelligence. c) God is intelligent so God created everything we didn't. Failure to accept what he says is apparently because of incredulity. Very annoying......
To such a guy I must say: Allah and Zeus are intelligent so they created everything we didn't. Prove me wrong, otherwise I am right. Use their logic against them. Edit: Fixed a typo
Lol really? You should respond with, "well, I heard that intelligent beings (us) can take complex things and make them simple; for example, to make our world more understandable and easier to live in. So then simple things are created by intelligence but complex things would be a product of unintelligent chaos." Lol looks like I created a complex sentence, let me simplify: "simplicity is the hallmark of good design." This cosmos is very complex, but each individual small part can be described simply to help with our math and predictions.
Bob accuses atheists of having a stance based on incredulity … then proceeds to argue from incredulity that he can’t understand a universe not created by his god!!!
Damn Kevin! Love how you set yourself up so that it's clear to everyone that if anyone is not convinced of his arguments, it's their fault. It's definitely not due to how BAD he is in making an argument.
53:17 - "some are born atheist" We are ALL born atheist...it takes someone else to convince/teach/brainwash us about the concept of any god or gods - same as with everything else babies have to learn. It's impossible to be born a theist imo.
Exactly. It is why most follow the religion of their parents, no shock there. I was fortunate that my Dad was an atheist and Mom a christian but they had agreed not to push either side on us kids. I feel like that allowed me to be more objective when going to church as I didn't have parents giving me stupid answers to hard questions like "god moves in mysterious ways" when my 15 year old friend died from a brain aneurysm. He was a good christian and it didn't save him. I was allowed to think for myself and that is the antidote to religion and sure enough, at 13 I stopped going to church when my mom asked if I wanted to continue.
Charles: "so first there was light right?" Wrong. In Genesis before there was light there was an earth that was formless with water on it. It blows away his "Genesis matches the Big bang" immediately and the hosts really should have caught that.
Yep- I feel like all of the hosts should have a run-down of common bad-faith arguments by now and be able to discard them easily. Bob clearly said he was making a "fine-tuning" argument, so they should have been able to knock it down in two seconds. Also, the caller who was talking about some vague thing about guiding people/morality should have been asked from the beginning, "What do you believe and what is your evidence for said belief."
@Bob - at least with me, its not an argument from incredulity. Its literally, I don't have sufficient evidence to accept a claim. I'm not saying "I don't know how a god could exist, so one doesn't," that's the difference. You could probably learn what an argument from incredulity is.
Yet again AXP exposes the incredibly poor level of general education in the US. Religious schools and their exemptions from standards required of educators and the curriculum have a significant bearing on this. The 720 Billion spent annually is not providing value for money and is failing the people and the Nation
I can't believe that Kevin-NV is crying after how he started off about how he is the master of persuasion. Didn't Tom Hanks say that there is no crying in atheism call-in shows?
It sounded like he hit the wall. He’s been using his arguments not just to convince others, but also himself. Having lost his belief in xianity, he’s holding tight to the god belief left and it seems he is starting to see the flaws in his logic. Shannon and SR’s patient questions and points allowed that conversation to develop into probably the most truthful conversation he’s had regarding his beliefs. It can be very frightening, suddenly losing that safety net of an afterlife. Had they played hardball he’d have stayed argumentative, even doubled down and they wouldn’t have had the breakthrough.
tears are just another tool in many cases. Waterworks often help to invoke sympathy or convincing people to be more accomodating. And theres a real difference between tears as a sign for internal pain or if its out of frustration, anger or inability.
@@fritzhaselnuss7852 That is a good point. Maybe that's how he is so persuasive. As soon as he realizes that his shoddy argument isn't working, he turns on the waterworks. I am crying as I type this, so you have to be persuaded by this comment.
@@jquest99 Next time he calls in they should ask him for photo idea. He'll no doubt drop his trousers, show the call screeners the capital B inked on each butt cheek, then spread said butt cheeks apart to prove his name really is B*B
Great show all around. Shannon and SR are always a treat to have. Decent calls, but a couple really tested my patience. How many times can a person be told something only to have them completely ignore it and throw fallacies back? Ffs.
Kevin, as uncool as it may be, I'm going to quote a Death Cab for Cutie song: "If you find yourself a villain in the story you have written then it's plain to see, that sometimes the best intentions are in need of redemption, don't you agree? If so, please show me."
Whenever you ask “what is a god, what is YOUR god, and how can it be DEMONSTRATED” it takes them off the script of saying that it’s YOUR FAULT for just not believing. Theist scripts are meant to get around those questions as not really important.
00:00 Intro
02:50 Charles-(CA) | God Did The Big Bang
19:15 Kevin-NV | Accidentally Creating A Harmful Religious Environment
38:18 Bob-VA | Atheism Is Just An Argument From Personal Incredulity
56:31 Emily-MA | Does Mental Illness Increase Drive Towards Religion
1:09:41 Aaron-IL | God Is Supernaturally Organic Biological Material
1:26:59 Andrew-MI | Evolution Vs Creation Is A Coin Toss
1:40:45 Outro
Thank-you time stamp person/s
So if there were a god I wouldn’t care because I still would not worship it. I also don’t think there are any gods except as constructs aka human created ideas.
Towards the end....It's painful to explain that the theory of evolution is beyond speculation. It's more robust than the theory of gravitation fields. Its so ridiculously robust that there is NO question as to the validity. It's scientific theory. Its as far as we can go on provable truth. For some reason some people don't understand theory is more robust than fact. This is a major issue for such a huge part of the population. Theory trumps fact. Fact is an observation and theory explains it with falsifiable work that cements it. Thoroughly. Very, very, very thoroughly.
@@Pandemos To be fair, the theory of gravitation fields is VERY complicated, especially with special and general relativity. But the gravitational constant and the effects of gravity is VERY well understood and used with amazing precision. We are making microsecond per day adjustments in GPS signals to take into account time dilation caused by gravitational fields, for gods sakes. So in some ways, it's more "robust" than evolution.
@@Pandemos - Your evidence is?
Thanks for having me back after my sportsball hiatus ❤️
Welcome back! Did you score all the goals and points you could hope for this summer?
Pls come back. More Shannon pls. Need more shannon.
We love you to be back.
Great questions, way to dig in!
You're a great host, with great arguments. Please keep coming back.
Bob: athiest only have an argument from incredulity.
Also bob: I don't know how reality could exist any other way.
I think there's a word for that argument.
It's like they know all the positions, they know the logic, they may even have studied evolution and understand it but then it all proves god. Congrats man, you have an unfalsifiable belief. There is no way to disprove your argument.
Yeah, it's just another classic case of theistic projection
I have a very hard time believing Kevin's claim that he can usually convince anyone of his beliefs when he cannot even describe what he believes
hes a nut obviously
Also cries while doing it lol.
He convinces theists who are at or coming out of church. So now you understand how he can convince others?
I call BS.
If we accept his claim that he is able to convince people of X. And then is unhappy that he has negatively affected them. Stop doing it then.
Bob lost any goodwill with me when he started to argue that most atheists just don’t want to be told what to do. You know what Bob, you are right. I don’t want bigoted, sexist, greedy, close minded people telling me what to do while saying it’s an all powerful god that “really” says I should do these things. And yes, I am using extreme examples, but he went with a broad generalization so I feel justified doing the same, right or wrong.
We especially don't want to be told what to do by people who claim to speak for a god and the god says we are supposed to give them money and we will be rewarded after we die.
He lost it with the 1 degree thing. How does that crap still persist?
And with 10,000 religions vying to be the one to tell me what to do and what to think, sometimes contrary to empathy and often contrary to evidence … seems to me to be less about a supernatural entity and more about people wanting to control people.
He lost my goodwill when SR managed to demonstrate that Bob wasn't even trying to participate in a conversation, but just waiting for his turn to talk. It certainly happens with some non-theists as well, but damn, how common is that utterly aggravating behaviour from theists? Is it really that they've learned even that from their preachers - to preach instead of conversing? If so, then religion has done even _more_ serious damage to society...
Yeah provide evidence of your claim then ill think about whether I've broken it's rules.
I'm sure these people don't care if they've broken the rules of Zorg
I'm going to call up Bob, tell him I'm a Nigerian prince willing to send him $10 million for just $10,000 to prove he is serious. If he pushes back, I'll just tell him he's refusing to believe me from personal incredulity.
I am personally incredulous that you will do that. 🤭🤭🤭
Bob's logic makes you make sense so who do I sign the check too?🤔
Bob: "atheists are just hard-headed, they won't believe the truth"
Shannon: "actually I'm an atheist because no one can even give me a definition of God that's coherent, can you?"
Bob: "*chuckles nervously* uh... What's reality?"
Congratulations Bob you just disproved yourself and gave the real reason why people are atheists, it's because we ask for evidence and you can't provide any.
@@Locust13 indeed the "Bobs" of this world often show that they have no idea what evidence is, why it might be needed, or why they believe what they believe, if indeed they can even describe what it is that they believe.
Exactly this… I think Shannon’s lizard legs example made the point but she didn’t follow through with it, and Bob didn’t get it…
Bob is dismayed with the argument of incredulity and then uses it in his defence.
Well done Bob. Well done.
I'm picturing Gibbs head-slapping this fool.
Hahahaha
And he used some arguments from ignorance. Just to cover some extra bases.
I love how these discussions always boil down to epistemological nihilism. "Well, that's just your personal opinion. Well, you don't even know what reality is." It's all vibes with these people.
The moment he said atheists are suffering from personal incredulity at the beginning of his call, I immediately thought "I bet this guy is projecting". He confirmed it (and this original comments threaded point) when he said "so you just think everything has happened by chance". That statement reeks of personal incredulity by strawmaning any and all natural explanations.
Andrew might be the caller that baffles me the most. “We don’t have direct observation of evolution.” “Actually, here’s a ton of examples of direct observations of evolution.” “But we don’t have direct observation of evolution.”
He just blatantly refuses to accept observable reality. Absolutely wild.
when I first listened to a course of evolition it simply came across like logical, observable and conclusive to me providing a host of answers to questions that I have put before me before. If you ever had anything like an ant farm, an aquarium or any kind of short-living metabolism culture (bacteriums, viruses) evolution can be seen in real time
Ok, fine, we don't. So Andrew must have direct observation of god else he wouldn't believe right? Come on Andrew, what direct observation of god do you have to show us?
I call this " flat earth mentality" these type of people have no interest in truth or having a conversation. I will walk away from these people 10 times out of 10. There is literally no point even trying to talk to such an individual. You can show them obvious, indisputable proof all day long and they'll still come back with some shit like " i got my own degree " or some other nonsense. Total waste of time.
There's a commenter here that makes the same argument. Says that no one has observed speciation. Nevermind that it can be easily done in the lab with fruit flies. And there are countless examples in the wild.
They think that because they themselves are ignorant and can't understand the concepts that it must not be real.
these different Covid variants. Evolution right there.
Also, Shannon, you're awesome at this! You are intelligent, a clear and concise communicator (I especially appreciate how you give examples), good at holding callers accountable to their previous statements and preventing run-on filibuster conversations, and I really appreciate how high your standards are for yourself to only comment strongly on topics you have fully investigated. You're a wonderful example of an honest and reasonable skeptic, and I'm glad you're doing more of these shows. Just had to say. ❤️
For someone who has the audacity to call themselves very persuasive, I found Kevin to be about as un-persuasive as it’s possible to get.
Sometimes you've got to drill down to a specific example. Kevin was one of those times. I didn't get anything out of that conversation.
Not only was he not persuasive, more than half of call wasn't even about his argument. It was just him complaining about how he's so good at convincing people that he turns them all into Darth Vader by accident.
He may have been a troll. One of the more convincing trolls, but still a troll.
sometimes you need to agree with someone like that, just to shut them up.
I had to fast forward on Kevin's call. It was so pointless
OMG. Bob just literally made an argument from personal incredulity while trying to explain why atheist is an argument from personal incredulity. And why the fuck is he getting angry?
because he realized he got owned and a lot of guys have a problem with that.....
I felt like based on his definition, every argument is an argument from incredulity. You don’t believe me when I said I saw Bigfoot? Incredulous! You have a ton of evidence for your stance, but you won’t accept the iffy evidence for mine? Incredulous! More to it than that Bob.
He's getting angry because someone not believing the same bullshit he does is pretty much a personal attack for him since he's linked his religion to his personality on a deeply emotional level...
Special pleading. They're used to being coddled and humoured.
@@Wolf-ln1ml exactly
Bob-VA - If atheism is "personal incredulity", then everything else you don't believe is also "personal incredulity."
Yeah, Bob doesn’t believe that no gods exist, but atheists are arguing from personal incredulity. Well done, Bob, well done. 👏🏾
Gods are such fragile things; they may be killed with a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. They thrive on servility and shrink from independence.
biggest issue with atheists right now. They in no way really address religion. Sure, people will reply to that in droves, saying, "but we point out that science shows the big bang, abiogenesis, evolution, and basically everything else can be explained materially, and so we've removed the need for God". And the fact that basically every atheist would take this as a case demonstrates why they don't understand religion to any capacity; at least not how religions were originally. To explain why this case doesn't address religion, let's look at how one should actually think about it.
Everything is a viewpoint. As an example of what I mean, imagine Looking at a glass. You could look at it and see something to drink from (this is the primary view we use, and in fact as cognitive science reveals we see the world first in uses and then in shapes) you could also see it as a bunch of glass molecules in tight formation, and you could see it as a union of chaos and order, seeing the chaotic parts balancing out the orderly parts resulting in a glass. None of these views are superior or more true than others, and we can switch between them depending on what we want to do with the glass/what our aims are. Mixing views, though, would be ridiculous. Nobody looks for something to drink from within the glass molecules. Nobody looks for chaos and order within a bunch of glass molecules. Yet, when it comes to religion, everyone looks for God while actively looking at the world scientifically.
Understanding this, we can say that to see God you don't look for things we can't explain. To see God, You change your idea of him, understand the religious lens, and he becomes visible. Seeing God is like seeing a glass as a balancing union of chaos and order. It's about re-learning religious languages and the religious view. Sure, you can see and understand the world without using it, but just like you can't do many things with a glass unless you change what you see it as, you can't see deeper things of reality without religion.
If there's one thing I've sadly learned, then its that nobody bothers actually reading through anything long. But, if you actually read to the end of this please feel free to ask me to go into more detail about what I said, or explain what God is/what the Christian lens is. And also PLEASE respond to people who reply to this comment with something like "prove there's a God who acts in ways science can't explain" with a clown emoji.
I loved the way Shannon talked over the people trying to interrupt her while she was trying to make a point. She could teach a master class in controlling a conversation.
She had a great teacher in Matt Dillahunty😁👍
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
If she was in Egypt, she would be silent.
yeah I love that too. Its like shes more then willing to give you the room and hear you out but if you are disrespectful and like to talk over people.....she can play that game too. Really drives the point home
@@ishmaelkelly951 you sure? cuz Matt doesnt have this kind of skill. He rather goes off the rail and hangs up on people but talking over people? Havent seen him doing that
The theists who call in to your shows are more entertaining and humorous than all the late night, comedians like Seth Myers, and Jimmy Kimmel, that I love. I also learn so much about science and evolution and you continue to reinforce my understanding the best evidence to help me more understand the world I live in thank you
Whenever someone wants to tell you a story to answer a simple straightforward question you know its going south fast.
Absolutely ridiculous he sounds like a whacko
A straightforward question does not necessarily imply there is a straightforward answer. “How many hairs do you have on your head right now?” The Romans - well, those who had time for that kind of stuff - worried about that and had their hair counted.
So, care to answer this straightforward, simple question?
@@advorak8529 In the neighborhood of 100,000 .
@@advorak8529the answer is “I don’t know” or “I’d have to count but you can also just look it up for an estimate” that isn’t at a all a question that would have a story answer to it so you just sound dumb
Catholicism massively exacerbated my OCD and other mental/emotional issues too. Becoming an atheist has improved my mental health IMMENSELY.
I think that applies to many religions, good for you.
Ex catholic too, agree man, 100%!
👍
@Rebel Son The majority of Theists have been Theist since they were very young. How can any one of those people honestly state that they've improved due to their religion?
Becoming a pious follower of Islam heals all mental health issues.
doesnt matter if you make a distinction like Emily did. If her thesis really was correct you would see a direct correlation between religion and mental disorders after a few generations. There are a lot of mental disorders which can easily be exploited to manipulate individuals so again....not really a surprise
Listening to Charles explain his misunderstanding of the Big Bang was painful. Fucking hell, Charles. Take some college courses, dude.
this is always surprising to me. How can people are so much looking for an answer and fail to pick up on some knowledge in the process? I get that some topics are really hard so having a teacher to lead you through the basics is a necessity but for the most part its easy to claim that people like that are not looking for answers...they are looking for an angle of attack to push their own narrative
yeah, he's definatley on Coke
“The planet is gassy as fuck” - Shannon Q 2022
If this was 50 years ago, Kevin would have been Jim Jones.
Bob calls in claiming that most atheists employ an argument from personal incredulity - then proceeds to make an argument from personal incredulity in attempting to make the case for God's existence. Oh, the irony...
I have yet to find a Christian who does not project their own inadequacies when arguing against a position they refuse to try and understand.
I agree with SR. In my opinion this was ShannonQ's best show. My only issue is the unfair advantage Shannon has with lizard legs playing ball.
Aaron: God is incomprehensible.
SR: You said God is incomprehensible and are now telling us you understand God.
Aaron: Yes, God is incomprehensible.
Aaron ignores SR's point and everyone moves on as if nothing happened.
You missed the point
The point is that can't understand something that is incomprehensible by definition. Comprehend is a synonym for understand.
Erica (Gitsick Gibbon) pointed out that strategy of Christians arguing and now I notice it all the time.
Christian: "have you considered point A?"
Atheist: "point B counters it"
Christian: "ah but have you considered...point A?"
@@psychologicalprojectionist just because you can't understand something dosent mean it dosent exist.
@@williamproffitt6688 agreed, but you can't say you understand something you have declared non-understandable (again).
It is logical "having your cake and eating it".
Most things that I can conceive existing ( for example a cheque for a billion dollars made out to me from Mr Musk - I would be grateful) don't exist.
Bob doesn't listen and should be dismissed.
Bob’s lack of belief in Santa is just an argument from incredulity.
I love Santa
Santa stole my radio 😬
I find your lack of faith in Santa disturbing.
[Most effective when performing the force choke.]
@@jquest99 I am one with the force and the force is with me
@@seasonedbeefs It's over, Leo. I have the high ground!
Andrew- The one person who does not Understand evolution is the one trying to tell the people who do understand evolution they don’t understand evolution. Did I get that right Andrew?🤣🤣🤣🤣
Kevin, the great influencer. I’ve never heard anyone less convincing than him.
I think these people he has “persuaded” are just saying “yeah, yeah, sure” to end the interaction with him.
I don’t think even he understands what he thinks.
I cannot imagine Kevin influencing anyone to do anything ever
@@adampockran9656 He influenced me to skip ahead on the video
I could swear he’s a troll.
@@adampockran9656 absolutely. 😂
spot on
Shannon is one of, if not, my favorite host. Maybe nice to a fault (until she reaches her limit), but that has allowed contentious situations to become fruitful, instead of crashing and burning.
----for the record.... I know my sentence structure at the beginning of that statement is probably trash. But, I couldn't figure out how to write the thought.
I love Shannon and SR as a team. Whoever hired them knows what they are doing.😉
Evolution of species has been observed in many cases.
except the gullible
Andrew obviously received his biology “degree” from a religious school.
His claim of speciation is erroneous. The Cliff Swallow was undeniable.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I don't think he's even taken high school biology
@@HTGY6YTH67Y I was thinking maybe byu it's very popular for Christian "scientists" as they don't really teach modern science
I had the same thoughts, he has to have gotten his degree from a christian university.
Christian Clown College.
we need more Shannon.
we need more Forrest.
we need Shannon and Forrest!
I was looking forward to Forrest and Shannon but this was really good. Great job humans!
I like Forrest but I like SR as well.
But Forrest would have had a field day with some of the science questions, such as Charles-CA and his complete misunderstanding of the big bang theory. And with Aaron-IL and his complete misunderstanding of abiogenesis. And with Andrew-MI and his complete misunderstanding of evolution.
like forest but he's woke af
@@seasonedbeefs How is that a bad thing?
@@jquest99 I agree, would have been better with Forrest.
@@seasonedbeefs Are not they all hella woke?
Loved having Shannon back on AXP! Was looking forward to seeing her with Forrest Valkai again but Secular Rarity did a good job addressing the callers as well!
"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world."
Richard Dawkins
Interesting!!! So existence of a creator is certain.
@@extraordinary.verses As certain as the Existence of the Grand Space Wizard
Source? Trust me dude
basically my stance as well. Not knowing doesnt help me. I am fatalistic about certain things like dying or growing old so I accept them even tho I dont like them but thats because they are observable, reliable and are facts of life. Science also acknowledges them but still continues to research and investigate them in order to get us humans forward. Religion maintains a status quo and doesnt look for answers apart from the ones designated by a few powerful men who place themselves at the center of it as prohets or speakers or whatnot. They cannot be questioned, cannot be challenged and if somebody does its usually followed by violence or defamation in order to silence them.
I have zero respect for religions and religious leaders and thats by their own actions
@@ichsehsanders
Bro, Trust me does not count inside court rooms. You need evidence.
@@fritzhaselnuss7852
Pitfall: if looking at evidence in isolation is not satisfactory, dont draw conclusion until you look at the cumulative evidence.
Great show, thanx to SR and Shannon for another great performance! Lovin every minute of it!
Same, great team you’d think they’ve worked together often.
OMG! The look on SR and Shannon's faces when Andrew-MI claimed that he has a biology degree!
I had the exact same reaction 😂. How the H*LL do you not know that there are CONCRETE evidences of speciation? Wait! Did he get his biology degree from Kent Hovind? Cause that perfectly explains the call.
He needed biotic to be defined.
@@MrGeemonty Is that a robot?
I would've asked about his specialisation,but I guess hosts were flabbergasted by his claim.
We have not observed speciation. Saying we have is an often repeated, un-evidenced, atheist lie. It's apparently true that evolution has occurred but we have not actually observed it occurring.
@@johnsmith-ju5ns Understood. You've not read any research papers on speciation, nor looked up the Wiki article that references examples of speciation, nor even done a simple Google search for "examples of speciation". Got it.
Yeah, apparently there are Creationist colleges that offer biology degrees. The caller might actually have one, but I can't imagine who would hire someone with a biology degree and doesn't even agree with the foundations of the discipline.
They offer B.S. degrees. Unfortunately, it doesn't stand for "Bachelor of Science".
Well, obviously people didn't hire him. I can imagine the interview where he walks into a lab and starts spouting his creationist nonsense. He certainly never gave a clue about having learned any biology.
He said he doesn't have a job that uses the degree.
Probably trAmp owed university's lol.
After listening to the guy talk about speciation under full Dunning-Kruger effect, I doubt he has an actual undergraduate degree from an accredited college. If you went to a decent high-school, you would know that there are actual examples of speciation.
And the fact that he didn't understand any of the points that SR and Shannon brought up is another evidence.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
H. L. Mencken
I'm really sorry, but you've brought the pedant out in me. What Mencken actually wrote, in a 1920 collection of essays called “Prejudices: Second Series”, was "there is always a well-known solution to every human problem-neat, plausible, and wrong." But your point remains pretty much the same: even wrong answers can seem satisfying.
BTW, very nearly the form of words you used seem to have first appeared in 1983 in an article in “Reason” magazine.
Bob accuses atheists of arguing from incredulity, yet from his ramblings he seems to be saying that he believes in god because he can’t see his reality could be the way it is without a God. Which is an argument from incredulity.
The problem with Charles, is that he’s fine with VISIONS giving people information.. and if you’ve ever had stoner roommates, you’d understand how annoying that is.. As soon as you try to explain the “Science” of “VIsions” you are at a loss.
According to Charles others interpret, but he KNOWS.
He's definitely NOT in charge. But he's probably a better option than Scott Baio.
Hi, try not to generalize to all stoners. Haven't had any visions over here, much less rejecting science over them
He also sounds like he just snorted a mountain of coke like Scarface.
No no no the real problem with Charles is that he's absolutely coo coo banana brains. With a bunch of stupidity sprinkled in there. That's what the hosts were tip toeing around because they didn't want to be offensive.
Andrew is a biology major who has come to the show to prove that the education system has failed him...
he is also a cheater because teachers are regularly checked in order to see if their knowledge is up to date or aligns with the material they use. If he would provide this kind of answers to scientific enquiries he d be GONE in a second so I d say he abuses his position to corrupt the education system because he is not okay with the scientific explanations but is alright with lying his way through the checkpoints in order to keep his position
@@fritzhaselnuss7852
Did he say he was a teacher?
If he did, I missed it -- and it's even worse than I thought...
I thought he said that he studied biology, or had a degree in biology in college...
@@The5armdamput33 Andrew never said he teaches biology. And he said he doesn't even work in that field. But it's not clear whether he received his biology degree from an accredited university.
@@jquest99 bought his degree on ebay is the favorite............................
@@paulrichards6894 I'm going to buy an MD. Let me know if you need any surgery. I can do it for you for cheap.
Bob encapsulated the problem with almost all arguing theists
ABSOLUTELY!
Well done with Kevin. Great insights, both of you.
SR is an incredible listener. The way he gives soft verbal assents when Shannon Q is talking, the way he promotes listening with the caller, and the way he empathetically listens to the caller is quite amazing. So many hosts of this show make me a better thinker. I feel like SR makes me a better person.
So let me get this straight. Bob believes in God because "what else could it have been" but atheists are engaged in an argument from incredulity because they don't believe things without good evidence?
This logic is so twisted that it's kind of fascinating.
Bob making a point about "personal incredulity" fallacy while not actually understanding the fallacy itself was laughable. Basically he lives in a resonance chamber of confirmation bias.
Finally became a member! Whoop
Incredulity! You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
You two did such a great job, thank~you!
Lmao Bob blaiming atheists for making arguments from personal incredulity while he himself is doing an argument from personal incredulity. What a fool.
Shannon and SR, who are both bright and educated, as well as charming and funny hosts, did a great job on this show..... Excellent team work an very enjoyable show..... I'm ready for an encore!!!!
"There is no evidence for Evolution when I ignore the evidence and don't listen to the explanation."
Bob from VA would probably have been a good call for Matt. He knows how to focus a caller like him.
He likely would have gotten more than a few “shut the fuck up”’s from Matt too Lmao
He would have been dropped 20sec after the minute timer
Matt would have instantly pointed out that the caller was arguing from personal incredulity and that would have been that.
@@will-i-am386 I think so too. Shannon is a lot more patient then Matt and she endured and also engaged with callers Matt would ve dropped ina heartbeat
Why a person of color would follow the bible when it clearly condones slavery is beyond me
Yay, Shannon Q is back 😊
So I was raised both Pentacostal (mother's side) and Southern Baptist (father's side). I had hallucinations, mostly visual, beginning around 7 years old. I also "spoke in tongues" at my mother's church. I told her once of seeing Jesus' hands while praying. I also wrote her a note about a man that followed me that I couldn't see that would go above me, around me, otherwise dissappear when I tried to turn and see...ultimately very scary...and when I prayed and it wouldn't go away I ultimately prayed to Satan to take it away! (I didn't tell her that part) I also didn't share any of the other hallucinations I had growing up because I was convinced I had "demons inside of me" by both sides. I'm almost 40 now and diagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder which manifests in hallucinations with me. It's very much under control now. And I'm very much out of the control of any religion and an atheist, which I find very separate.
Charles strikes me as the type of person who has been trying to find people who agree with his crap for a long time and is very pissed off that nobody gets his perspective. But also, he strikes me as someone who's never questioned his perspective and tried to line it up with reality.
Well he sure did now? Like a Big Bang .🌋 lol
My #1 pet peeve is people, especially those who don't know me, telling me how I think/feel/believe/etc. Props to Shannon during her discussion with Bob.
"Bob" sounds a lot like the 30-day cycle dude. He also argues the same way, where he believes his assertions are proof of themselves and expects his conversation partner to disprove them.
The first thing a cult tells you is everyone else is lying.
All religions start as cults, I personally see no difference between them other than maybe in how many people buy into the bullshit.
Aaron: "I represent my entire county"
Also Aaron: "God played with dinosaurs when he was a kid"
Aaron isn't the sharpest tool in the shed
Aaron likes to pick and choose at a whim, eve though half the stuff he picks completely contradicts the other stuff he picks, all because he’s not got a clue when he’s doing it.
SR: please repeat Shannon's point.
Bob: I wish she would listen to MY point.
Bob, you aren't paying attention, are you?
Shannon is one sharp cookie , with great communication skills. 👍
SR is doing pretty good also.
To you both, Thanks for the show !
Andrew's biology degree came from Patriot University in case anyone was curious.
Would that be the Patriot Bible University (PBU), formerly known as Patriot University? It appears to be an unaccredited Independent Baptist correspondence school located in Del Norte, Colorado.
I'm just now watching TAE after years of hiatus and I absolutely adore Shannon Q and SR. You two are a dynamic duo when it comes to dealing with something this important in the world. You both show immaculate tact, professionalism, and compassion while not allowing people to short change themselves or the call at the same time. Your call with "Kevin" was most impressive. ❤️More of you two, please?
I'm left unsatisfied by the interaction with Bob - VA.
This idea of a "mutation rate" is so silly since the rate that mutations accumulate at is wholly dependant on the environment and not in any shape or form a constant rate. It's not even constant between individuals of the same species (because of the environment) and absolutely not the same between different species.
If he actually had a degree in biology he'd know that and ANYONE should be able to figure that out on their own if they understand even the most basic things about what causes mutations.
That and offspring aren't perfect clones of their parents.
It could be more desirable looks that allow more procreation.
It could also be the extinction of a species allowed a more vunerable species to become popular.
Look I just don't want to say its solely environmental. Its too vague.
But "mutation rate" sounds so scientificky!
For those that don't know what the Azusa street revival is it's basically a bunch of preachers throwing themselves on the ground and "speaking in tongues" and all religious people were very impressed and saw it as a sign that they had received the holy spirit. People were healed and all that jazz. Basically the more extreme of the Pentecostals these days.
Ahh so there is a god then. Thanks 😉
@@NotAPacifist825 I'll bet all those philosophers and theologians are pissed that all you had to do was throw yourself on the ground and speak in tongues to prove God.
Yup the ones they make memes with street fighter sound effects with🤣🤣
And naturally there's no evidence being presented to prove anyone was healed.
@@cnault3244 reminds me of the movie "The Dream Team" with Micheal Keaton
Bob's call in one word: projection.
Someone needs to inform Charles that the Big Bang isn't an "explosion", which invalidates his entire argument about Genesis describing the "explosion" of the Big Bang.
It IS an explosion (and still on-going), but naming it "Big Bang" was unfortunate and a boon for God-believers. We don't yet know when/how/if the BB began. (I doubt the real NDT would say what you've said here because Webster says explosion is "a spectacular expansion"...please change your nym and photo)
@@johnsmith-ju5ns sure, if you want to use specific definitions, you could say that it was an "explosion". In the traditional sense (especially in the way that Charles was trying to use it), however, the BB is not an explosion.
I'm not sure why you'd want me to change my name. It's quite obvious that I'm not the real Neil DeGrasse Tyson (indicated by the ending words "with a Knife", followed by an image of NDT holding a knife). Do you think I'm trying to impersonate NDT or something??
@@neildegrassetysonwithaknife Look, if it is, and it is, "a spectacular expansion" then it is an explosion, and you are just a common troll, looking for any ol response you can muster. Bye.
I think Charles needed to be immediately corrected about his idea that the big bang was literally an explosion. Also: you don't need anything to get rid of carbon monoxide because carbon monoxide was the best resource for organisms to live on at that time. It just so happens that oxygen was the garbage they expelled in return and they expelled so much of it that it saturated the waters and we're still breathing it. We just so happened to evolve during a time in which oxygen was prevalent so organism started to use it.
The hosts have a very limited understanding of cosmology.
I would kind of like to see Charles write his notes of what this person was seeing at each step of Genesis for curiosities sake. The text has an earth before let there be light, so how does he see that fitting to the Big Bang? What were they seeing when describing a vault separating waters?
I just wanted him to answer the hosts about why he insisted it was a vision. He said that must have been the case. I could argue god must have moved the pen. Or that the writer must have translated it from golden plates. He was so ultra focused on how he’d been able to explain it, that he hadn’t thought the entire thing through.
@@KBosch-xp2ut feel free to call in and show them what they don’t know. We could use the laughs
@@KurenaiNanashi
Why would someone call in to an atheist show to discuss/debate cosmology with two non-scientists? That makes zero sense.
@@KurenaiNanashi many of the hosts have mentioned several times that they are not experts in any field of science.
Charles, I've been present when someone died and didn't see any energy leave it. So right off the bat, you've got a problem. Then you start the hydraulic cycle in mid-stride with mist coming up from the ground equating to evaporation.
Secular + Shannon = Great host combination !!
Bob isn't there for a conversation, he admitted it when asked to respond to Shannon. He just replied, "I just wanted her to see it my way" or somethign similar. Basically, he's not listening, he's just preaching at you and waiting for his turn to speak. And then pulled out the "puddle" fallacy about the Earth not being able to veer a degree off, which had been debunked so often.. apologetics 101 right there. Amazing he TRIES (and fails) to pin argument from incredulity to the fact that you aren't convinced by his assertions without ANY evidence.
41:40 I thought I was the only lizard person. I now know I am not alone.
Bob doesn't understand the word 'incredulity'.
The hosts deserve a prize of excellence for this amazing episode of the atheist experience!
Maybe calm down.
one of the best ones for sure
Loved the episode! Missed Shannon.
I'm not absolutely certain but I believe that when creationists say "we've never seen x" what they mean is if they put their fingers in their ears close their eyes sing "la la la I don't see anything" and don't look at the evidence they don't have to admit to have seen it.
But they don't apply that same standard for their belief in god. I mean if they don't believe evolution simply because they haven't observed it then they must have observed god else it would be hypocritical. So I want to ask them when and how and what did it look like when they observed god.
I think i've had the misfortune to run into Bob (or someone like him) recently.
He argued;
a) Intelligent beings (us) create complex things.
b) Complex things are created by intelligence.
c) God is intelligent so God created everything we didn't.
Failure to accept what he says is apparently because of incredulity.
Very annoying......
bobs argument is simply an argument from ignorance....he does not know how the universe came to be...so his magic genie had to do it.
To such a guy I must say:
Allah and Zeus are intelligent so they created everything we didn't. Prove me wrong, otherwise I am right.
Use their logic against them.
Edit: Fixed a typo
Lol really? You should respond with, "well, I heard that intelligent beings (us) can take complex things and make them simple; for example, to make our world more understandable and easier to live in. So then simple things are created by intelligence but complex things would be a product of unintelligent chaos." Lol looks like I created a complex sentence, let me simplify: "simplicity is the hallmark of good design." This cosmos is very complex, but each individual small part can be described simply to help with our math and predictions.
@@letsomethingshine Good work. A little too verbose to throw at Bob though IMHO...but give it a try if you ever run into him. Cheers.
@@zzm9134 funny thing about their logic is it’s essentially the prime mover nonsense that can easily apply to their god.
This is one of my favourite TH-cam channels , keep up the good work 👍
Kevin could not influence me to not eat an olive out of a dry martini at a cocktail party.
Bob literally lives in his own reality.
Bob accuses atheists of having a stance based on incredulity … then proceeds to argue from incredulity that he can’t understand a universe not created by his god!!!
Damn Kevin! Love how you set yourself up so that it's clear to everyone that if anyone is not convinced of his arguments, it's their fault. It's definitely not due to how BAD he is in making an argument.
@@japtasticify Yeah. Listen to him right at the beginning of his call. It was a real weird call.
53:17 - "some are born atheist"
We are ALL born atheist...it takes someone else to convince/teach/brainwash us about the concept of any god or gods - same as with everything else babies have to learn. It's impossible to be born a theist imo.
Exactly. It is why most follow the religion of their parents, no shock there. I was fortunate that my Dad was an atheist and Mom a christian but they had agreed not to push either side on us kids. I feel like that allowed me to be more objective when going to church as I didn't have parents giving me stupid answers to hard questions like "god moves in mysterious ways" when my 15 year old friend died from a brain aneurysm. He was a good christian and it didn't save him. I was allowed to think for myself and that is the antidote to religion and sure enough, at 13 I stopped going to church when my mom asked if I wanted to continue.
Charles: "so first there was light right?"
Wrong. In Genesis before there was light there was an earth that was formless with water on it. It blows away his "Genesis matches the Big bang" immediately and the hosts really should have caught that.
Yep- I feel like all of the hosts should have a run-down of common bad-faith arguments by now and be able to discard them easily. Bob clearly said he was making a "fine-tuning" argument, so they should have been able to knock it down in two seconds. Also, the caller who was talking about some vague thing about guiding people/morality should have been asked from the beginning, "What do you believe and what is your evidence for said belief."
@Bob - at least with me, its not an argument from incredulity. Its literally, I don't have sufficient evidence to accept a claim. I'm not saying "I don't know how a god could exist, so one doesn't," that's the difference. You could probably learn what an argument from incredulity is.
Yet again AXP exposes the incredibly poor level of general education in the US. Religious schools and their exemptions from standards required of educators and the curriculum have a significant bearing on this. The 720 Billion spent annually is not providing value for money and is failing the people and the Nation
Specific examples given. Andrew: "well you're not using specific examples." WTF
I think he meant, " you are not giving me 'the specific example i want because I have a quick rebuttal'
Socially Kevin would the kind of guy I couldn't get away from fast enough.
I can't believe that Kevin-NV is crying after how he started off about how he is the master of persuasion.
Didn't Tom Hanks say that there is no crying in atheism call-in shows?
It sounded like he hit the wall. He’s been using his arguments not just to convince others, but also himself. Having lost his belief in xianity, he’s holding tight to the god belief left and it seems he is starting to see the flaws in his logic. Shannon and SR’s patient questions and points allowed that conversation to develop into probably the most truthful conversation he’s had regarding his beliefs. It can be very frightening, suddenly losing that safety net of an afterlife. Had they played hardball he’d have stayed argumentative, even doubled down and they wouldn’t have had the breakthrough.
tears are just another tool in many cases. Waterworks often help to invoke sympathy or convincing people to be more accomodating. And theres a real difference between tears as a sign for internal pain or if its out of frustration, anger or inability.
@@fritzhaselnuss7852 That is a good point. Maybe that's how he is so persuasive. As soon as he realizes that his shoddy argument isn't working, he turns on the waterworks.
I am crying as I type this, so you have to be persuaded by this comment.
@@251rmartin 🤣
Isn't Bob a caller with multiple names?
I think he sometimes tries to fool the screeners by spelling his name backwards.
@@jquest99 Next time he calls in they should ask him for photo idea. He'll no doubt drop his trousers, show the call screeners the capital B inked on each butt cheek, then spread said butt cheeks apart to prove his name really is B*B
Andrew came to a gunfight with a Degree from Prager U. Sorry, that was a slaughter. Great job handling these simpletons y’all!
Really good show! Great job by the hosts and interesting calls.
Great show all around. Shannon and SR are always a treat to have.
Decent calls, but a couple really tested my patience. How many times can a person be told something only to have them completely ignore it and throw fallacies back? Ffs.
Yeah, listening is hard. Listening AND comprehending is impossible for some.
Listening is impossible in many cases.
*coughcoughBOBcough*
Kevin, as uncool as it may be, I'm going to quote a Death Cab for Cutie song:
"If you find yourself a villain
in the story you have written
then it's plain to see,
that sometimes the best intentions
are in need of redemption,
don't you agree?
If so, please show me."
I keep wondering if Kevin isn't the leader of some kind of suicide cult 😬
Whenever you ask “what is a god, what is YOUR god, and how can it be DEMONSTRATED” it takes them off the script of saying that it’s YOUR FAULT for just not believing.
Theist scripts are meant to get around those questions as not really important.
good thing Shannon was there for Kevin's call.
Mommy, mommy, they keep breaking the 'stupid meter' .
Enjoyed that. Great job from the two hosts. Thanks.
Every North American with at least half a brain loves Shannon. She’s top notch all the way. 👍
I imagine this extends to people watching from places other than NA.