Why I Never Became Eastern
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2018
- After I became convinced by the historic claims of Christianity concerning the person of Jesus, I started looking for a church to call my own and as I did, I quickly became confused by the disorienting variety of teachings and practices among different denominations and this forced me to confront questions about the divisions that exist within Christianity.
I started studying Church history and I quickly narrowed my focus to the division between Catholicism and Protestantism. Eastern Orthodoxy didn’t, at that time, register as a contender for one very simple reason.
I’m an English speaking white dude in a British commonwealth country.
There is a universality to Catholicism that doesn’t exist in the Eastern Orthodox churches. For me to become Eastern Orthodox, I’d have to join a Church with a very specifically ethnic or national identity.
When people ask me why I’m not Eastern Orthodox, I’m tempted to get into a theological throw down, but the easiest way to answer that is by pointing out that I’m not Russian, Ukrainian, Greek, or any other ethnicity that the Eastern churches in the city I live in serve.
A point of contention at all the major divisions in Christianity has been the focus on authority. So, the East West split focused on the authority of the Pope vs. other bishops and patriarchs. The protestant reformation was about the authority of the Church and the Pope vs. the exclusive authority of scripture, and the English reformation was about the authority of the Pope vs. the authority of the King. So, as you might guess, authority, how it’s defined, and where it resides, seems like a pretty essential component of the faith.
So in the case of the East West schism, there were a number of controversies that they were stuck on, but arguably, the most significant one was the disagreement over the authority of the bishop of Rome vs. that of the other patriarchs and bishops. Rome insisted that the bishop of Rome had a unique and universal authority over the entire Church, without which there would be no universal Church, as inherited from the authority of Peter. The Eastern Orthodox side was arguing that the bishop of Rome was a first among equals but only in an honorific way which meant that he had the same authority as the other patriarchs. So that was their position going into the controversy. OK, how true were they to their positions after the controversy had led to an actual division and schism? Well, the West still maintained the conviction that the bishop of Rome had a universal authority over the whole Church. But the East, did not continue to treat the Bishop of Rome as a first among equals. In fact, they excommunicated him which seems like a clear violation of their own claim that no autocephalous patriarch has authority over another. The honor of first among equals has since been designated to the Patriarch of Constantinople.
Jesus wanted his followers to be one as a sign of his divinity to the world. Between East and West, from what little I know of it’s history, I only have ever seen major attempts from the West to realize that unity. Through the councils of Lyon and Florence, the East’s bishops conceded Rome’s position on Papal Supremacy, the Filioque, and purgatory, but the unity that was struck fell apart when the Eastern delegates went home and succumbed to political pressure there.
Rome has always been the initiator of ecumenical dialogue, from what I’ve seen. It was at the first Vatican Council that the mutual excommunications of 1054 were lifted. It was the second Vatican council that made ecumenism a high priority for the Church moving forward which paved the way for the joint theological commission of East and West.
It was Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI who recited the Nicene Creed with Eastern patriarchs without the filioque. It was the bishop of Rome who first visited the East. It wasn’t until 1995 when the Patriarch of Constantinople finally visited Rome.
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Thanks for all the comments. Many people have misunderstood the main arguments that I've offered in this video, so I've provided a follow up video with some clarification. Please watch that before commenting. th-cam.com/video/gyzsx-kiUGU/w-d-xo.html
Dear Brian, I appreciate you doing another elaborative video, but in all honesty, whatever you try to say people will hear what they want to hear not what is intended. As a former Orthodox, now Catholic, I have been dealing with these reactions for years, some of them almost hysterical, by literally completely reconstructing my words to fit their intention for the purpose of discrediting me and my spiritual choice. What lays behind it is the history of antagonism and many Orthodox in their comments here show that, plain and simply. Just look at the responses to my comment from 5 days ago. Regardless of how respectfully you try to present your point of view, they will find they way to discredit it, always stating the supposed historical, philosophical and theological "inaccuracies". Fine, if that's what they think, nobody here is forcing anyone to be one thing or the other (at least not on the Catholic side). You'll see, they will start pointing at other "inaccuracies" in your second video, or even worse, start accusing you of "insensitivities" to this or that. The first video was great, the second, too. From my point of view, I feel blessed to have access to your channel as it reflects my spirituality and identity. You do it in a respectful and inclusive manner to those who do not share your beliefs. Whether some of your critics here who "misunderstood" you do the same, people can judge by reading the comments. Take care!
I don't accept woman priest.
Alex and Brian, I am an Orthodox Christian, a convert from pentecostalism, and I am sorry you have had this experience. I know what you say is true and it is very sad. I fully respect these kinds of spiritual journeys and I think that the challenges you present to Orthodoxy are legitimate and need to be answered honestly not swept under the rug with counter attacks. Like you said, "Regardless of how respectfully you try to present your point of view, they will find they way to discredit it, always stating the supposed historical, philosophical and theological "inaccuracies". " Yes we need to have some difficult conversations in the next few centuries. But I regret this kind of triumphical blame shifting! What Brian has said is true and the Orthodox need to seriously address these problems rather than attack the messenger for being wrong in principle because he is not already one of us.
As for myself, I don't see the differences between classic Catholicism and classic Orthodoxy as ultimately irreconcilable. Where most seem to see only ruptures, I see synchronicities. However, I must say, that I cannot presently convert, together with my family, to a "family of the catholic churches" that is currently suffused with neo-catholic church of nice, post-modern, pro-homosexual, globalist, pro-contraception, political corruption, and liturgical chaos (Mass of Paul VI). In fact the attempt to canonize Paul VI confirms that the vatican is corrupt, at least to me. I REALIZE THAT TRUE CATHOLICISM IS SAFE FROM THIS. And that these are troubles the Church is going through, but will not ultimately destroy her. And I realize that Orthodoxy has it's own problems. I RESPECT YOUR WILLINGNESS TO STAY AND FIGHT. And I look forward to the day that true Catholicism will emerge at the end of this sad civil war. Then and only then will a reunion be possible.
In the Book of Revelations, I believe Catholic church is the one with Jezebell in it. And you are making arguments. Wrong doings. Plain and simple. You are saying that this is why you chose - but you are spreading your views that are not always correct and in that way manipulating others. Why did you really make this video is the real question? Did you even consider that it will have impact on someone? Why didn't you say that you are maybe wrong on all of these things?
th-cam.com/video/Cp6xH-3QTVQ/w-d-xo.html
There is no ethnic requirement to be a member of the Orthodox Church.
yes but he is right about the orthodox churches being national churches they argue with each other im from the balkans i know
Of course not. However, you're sheltered (and lucky) if you haven't ever experienced being the 'wrong' ethnicity Orthodox among a group of ethnic gatekeepers. I can 100% see why he wouldn't bother after his experience.
michelledalenaa
That’s what was my last hang up with becoming Orthodox after losing my faith in Papal Infallibility. Then I discovered the Western Orthodox, or what Roman Catholics OUGHT to be. The Rites are a Confederated brotherhood with valid Ecumenical Councils being the ultimate authority. This also appeal to my Minarchist values. Corruption can’t super concentrate in any one area. I can visit my siblings houses but the Western Rite is my home.
But Catholics are heretics like Protestants too. The holy sephulcure only lights for an orthodox patriarch not for any leader of any other Christian denomination and in fact it only lights for a Greek and no one else. God wants to show the rest that Orthodox is the purest available and we must follow the ancient paths. GREEK orthodox does not stop you from becoming orthodox. It invites you to participate.
Neilos Hodges
They claim scripture is not important to understand but they wanna talk about heresies when they don’t even study scripture.
I am so sorry to see such division, between the two churches in the comments. As long as we fight amongst ourselves, satan is winning. Let’s pray again so that our reunion may see the light.
@Al Furqon Islam appeared in 7th of century, from Christian belief
@Al Furqon There is actual evidence that the Quran has been changed many times over. And those who even discuss it get death threats. Islam is not open about anything. Deception is even explicitly permitted in the tradition if done in Islam's favour. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@1985LISS You should be. I am a catholic, I respect orthodoxy, it's theology and spiritual practices. As someone who finished masters degree in theology I can at least tell you that we never had any lectures agains orthodoxy.
I wouldn't go around converting orthodox christians nor do I expect us ro suddenly become one. But I would like to see the fighting stop. The world hates Christ, we both profess our love for Christ, for Trinity. Each and every time we hurl insults against each other, we make the enemies of Christ stronger.
@@1985LISS And for the persecutions from the west, please keep in mind tgat crusaders attacked and sacked catholic cities as well...
When you learn of a faith. Study the history first. Down the line God shall provide the truth in your heart and go by the faithful not the leaders because even leaders become corrupt. You won’t go to hell because your not orthodox but orthodox is a more narrow path to Jesus so it being strict as it has preserved the 2000 yrs of tradition it has kept itself as it always was so it just makes you stronger to fight evil!!!
As a person who travels a lot for work, I've been to several orthodox churches, Greek, Russian, Ukrainian, and Serbian. Not once have I had a negative experience from them. I have always felt welcomed there.
But that doesent fit in his agenda?
Curious if you are a blonde or a redhead, though?
@@AFreckledAngel actually I'm redish blonde
@@Bb-pw1zi that's a shame, what was your experience?
@@robertgroover3316 that’s why bro. I think Greeks no, but if I try going to the Russian orthodox churches around here I might stick out like a sore thumb.
Orthodox Christianity is for everyone. Not just Russians or Greeks. It doesn’t have to be about ethnicity
Walter Clements amen, @Brian holdsworth you got a bad ethnic parish, populated by people who don’t really understand their faith. Thankfully these are becoming less common, our Orthodox Church has multiple ethnicities all coming together.
He didnt say that.
True
I attend a Russian Orthodox church and there is no Russian anywhere in my genes and the people in this parish could not be nicer to my family and I.
Sure, in theory, but in practice they are all ethnically monolithic churches.
We do not discover God through a certain way of thinking, but through a certain way of life. This is Orthodoxy, a way of life.
“SPQR”
The Catholic Orthodoxy yes.
@@yusukesmokes2398 Orthodox are polytheist heretics who do yoga to experience "God"
@@HIMYMTR no they don’t can you explain why you’re so rude and what you mean yoga?
@@yusukesmokes2398 Look into hesychasm, they gaze at their navel all day and do breathing techniques to experience God's "uncreated energies" This is hinduism not Christianity.
and no i am not being rude, the Catholic church in its infallible capacity always recognized eastern schismatics as heretics,
Orthodox Church is universal. I'm Indonesian, and for me Orthodox Church is not ethnically centered.
I am Romanian and i have seen this inclination of nationalism. I don't like it, we should be more modern but this things evolved after many many years of opression.. I will fight to change this mentality because we must all be one in Christ and not divided by stupid nations..
I agree that Churches need to be one, nationality is a construct but ethnicity is not, culture is not. There are different people of ethnic and culture and churches in some area need to have the understanding with those different ethnics, also we have different languages, churches need to adopt but not consumed by these cultures.
exactly!
Alrich Brata same for me
I agree, we should all be Orthodox and accept everyone. But both sides of this coin can be to blame. A Greek Orthodox Church that was started by Greeks has Greek traditions in it. Those who come to this type of Church should respect that the founders were Greek, the majority of Parishioners are Greek so they will be doing Greek things in the Church.
On the other hand, Greeks should not be angry that other nationalities want to come into the Church. Churches split because converts want the Ethnicity to end, or the Ethnics want to do what they've always done. So if you enter a Russian, Antiochean or Greek Church, Accept the ethnicity. They are not pretending that it's Biblical, it's just how they've always done it. Orthodoxy is not about being "Modern" and Change is exactly what created 40,000 new denominations... So be careful about the Change that you're looking for. You can't enter someone's home and fight to remodel it. Liturgy is the important part and ethnicity really doesn't interfere with liturgy too much these days. Most Churches are half English and Half Greek, or Russian etc. So Liturgy is why we are in Church. If you are angry at anything else and you leave because of Ethnicity, then you aren't in Church for the right reason. You don't have to get alone with people during coffee hour.
I'm Arab and Orthodox.
So am i!!!
Love From Serbia Bro!
@ميشال خوري 😂
@Slavic Melody bro middle eastern christians should not called as arabs , one of reasons is we cannot belong a community that murdered us
Greek Levantine (rûm) and Greek Melkite Catholic here
I’m Romanian and orthodox and I am terribly sorry for what you went through with these ignorant parishoners. For this reason I go to an English-speaking Orthodox Church in London where’s there people of all nationalities and races. Praise the lord.
I think the Ukrainian church he visited might have been schismatic. Because the only canonical church in Ukraine is the UOC under Metropolitan Onuphry and they do not have many churches under their authority outside of Ukraine.
Excellent point@@mikeiannucci7931
It isn't always available everywhere, in some areas only very ethnic churches are available for everyone and you will have to endure sticking out as a sore thumb if you convert to Orthodoxy.
You're wrong on this one. You don't have to be Russian or Greek or any other specific cultural background to be an Orthodox Christian, I'm an English speaking, American born, mostly British by heritage, person, and yet I have never felt out of place in my parish because of that fact. The faith is universal, yes there is a cultural aspect to Orthodoxy perhaps to a greater extent than Catholicism. In the Orthodox church, not unlike in Catholicism you have regional bishops who take care of all parishioners within a certain country or region, AND the areas where that community moves and evangelizes. So it's not a matter of the Patriarch being universal, it's that the parish we are worshipping in and the community we are apart of was established by people who were under the authority of that patriarchate when they came over. Now, it could certainly be argued that it is time for Orthodox populations in certain western countries where the Church has a foothold, to establish their own diocese and I would be among the first to agree with that argument.
The excommunication of the Bishop of Rome is more complex that you've made it sound, he was excommunicated because he believed himself to have the power to enforce changes in certain matters of faith and practice for the whole church, when every single other time something like that was even up for discussion, a council was called, Pope Leo IX just went and did this to throw his weight around and test the new authority that he was claiming. He actually sent messengers with a papal bull excommunicating Patriarch Mikael I for not submitting to his authority and demanding that they followed the process of actually communicating with each other before these sorts of changes were made. Makael I undersrabibly took this to mean that the Bishop of Rome wasn't interested in talking or in resolving the conflict in a reasonable and Christ-Like way and sent those same messengers back to Rome with his own document of excommunication, in response to that.
As for your experience, that does sometimes happen, my church is Ukrainian as well and the response that I got was they were just as surprised, but in a good way like: "Oh my Gosh! New Person! She wants to Join us! Yay!" so what I get from hearing your experience is that, that parish was not welcoming, that was wrong, that was on them, please don't judge all Orthodox Christians or the attitudes of the church as a whole by people who act that way.
"You're wrong on this one" How do you argue someone's personal experience? Because he walked into a Ukrainian Orthodox church and it was awkward. You don't get to negate "This is what happened to me" as long as the story sounds reasonable. "he was excommunicated because he believed himself to have the power to enforce changes in certain matters of faith and practice for the whole church" Yes, because the Bishop of Rome believed himself to be the seat of Peter, which honestly isn't under dispute. Peter made hard decisions along the lines. The issue was that the Eastern Bishops didn't like the concept of someone really being in charge, rather than 1st among equals. "that was on them, please don't judge all Orthodox Christians or the attitudes of the church as a whole by people who act that way." A generically Orthodox church will say "Yay!". A Greek Orthodox Church with a Russian (or anyone else) on their door will quite logically point them to the church down the street. If you've ever watched "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", one thing that falls out is the way they turn the boyfriend into a Greek man is to baptize him the Greek Orthodox church. It's quite logical.
Again, not always. It's not about the kind of parish, it's about the people within that Parish and their attitude towards converts. I would imagine that an OCA Parish (Orthodox Church of America) would be least likely to have that issue, but I wouldn't know because there isn't one in my city. The one I attend is Ukrainian like the one he went to and other than the surprise factor our two experiences couldn't have been further apart. I am sick and tired of this misconception that there are no Western converts, or that we aren't welcomed, it's not a universal truth.
"I am sick and tired of this misconception that there are no Western converts, or that we aren't welcomed, it's not a universal truth." I never that thought at all. In fact I knew you had Baptists, at the very least, incoming who wanted orthodoxy but couldn't stomach the idea of being Catholic. But...you will need to reconcile yourself to the idea that when Orthodox Churches have modifier in front of them, like "Greek" or "Russian" it will be off putting to anyone who is not Greek, Russian, or whatever. It's the way it is. Meanwhile, I wish I could convince people that Catholics aren't all about dopey communists Priests who molest children in their off days, endless Rosary beads, or have seemingly every other evangelical call me a pagan or not Christian while not noticing you or the Anglicans or the Lutherans. But it is what it is. We all have our crosses to bear.
There's no reason for it to be off putting, at all.
Hmm... if you started a club called "The Daughters of the Revolution", do you wonder why men don't want to join? Or women who can't trace their lineage back that far? I think it's a fair cop.
I'm a black American living in the American South who chose Orthodoxy over Catholicism. Yes, there are very ethnically oriented Orthodox parishes, but there is the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) that uses all English in its services. I attended an Antiochian parish that used all English. You can't make a decision based on a visit to one church. I know a monk in Scotland starting an Orthodox monastery there using English and read of a native Welsh Orthodox priest. There are many Orthodox parishes in Africa, and places like Guatemala. Don't judge a book by its cover. There's much more to Orthodox Christianity.
Da Bome
If it pushe you out of catholicism what did you become now?
Linda Tutcher
God Bless You!
Does OCA exist in Canada? I have to ask my friend who is an OCA priest
Catholics and Orthodox are brothers for life
I am a multi racial American and belong to the Orthodox Church. Our Patriarch NEOFIT is in Bulgaria. We are 90% converts with two families at St. Tikhon's seminary. We are not focused on Bulgarian anything. Only living the Christian life through the Orthodox Church.
Keep in mind that Orthodoxy is still relatively new to the West and has been brought by Eastern European immigrants. Catholic Churches used to be more nationally based as well; in the US you had churches with congregations that were a majority demographic for many years - German, Italian, French etc and over time they mixed together. I think a similar thing will eventually happen to Orthodox churches. That be said Orthodoxy is and always was meant to be decentralized, as compared to the Catholic centralized structure
There were ethnic neighborhoods and still are, but the Mass was in Latin in every church regardless of their ethnicity
@@Elemenohpea440 Orthodoxy has always operated in whatever the local language was. The first 1000 years of Christianity the church was set up in a decentralization fashion
Yes, that's how missionary work goes. Catholics and Protestants have churches across the globe, while Orthodox are ABYSMAL at spreading the good Word.
@@Elemenohpea440 yes so everyone could equally not understand what was going on
@@derkuchenmeister I’m Catholic, but this got an LOL out of me.
Am a Kenyan and all my life an orthodox... Orthodox is universal
What is Orthodox??? The only Universal Church which is publicly known and acknowledged is Catholic...Check the world records...Correct me but Orthodox is only found in some East European and its proximity...Apart from that Orthodox church does not exist...
@@gregorypilau3530 ...1000 years of existence prior to the Catholic split says otherwise
FightPeople you should just read more history about orthodoxy and also the Coptic church and how it has been the buffer for your Catholic church's survival from Islamic occupation. Just listen to yourself "yea well how big is your church? If it isn't big then it doesn't count"... is this what you're trying to imply? Between Ethiopia, Egypt, Romania, Russia, Greece.... Christians separate from you heretical power lust Catholic church which asserted itself as an empire over the world and led to the bastardization that is Protestantism of which it's founders genuinely consider your popes to be the literal antichrist because of their countless crism against humanity.... the Christians separate from this mess are MANY. Have you ever considered why your Catholic church is so big? Do you know anything of the genocides committed by it in the Americas 400 years ago? Or even the genocides it committed against the orthodox church during the crusades? Like seriously bro you have the internet... this information is just a click and 30 minute away.... don't be so ignorant please.
@FightPeople Yes, for instance there was one a few years ago.
Catholicism by definition is universal
I've been attending a Serbian Orthodox Church very friendly. Orthodox is for everyone.
@@ivkekosovo So true
Yes brother, it is for everyone.May God help in every way.
@Ante Srz Its easier to just say fairy tales and be arrogant than debate your point of view fairly, nationalistic Croats are the biggest truth escapers in the Balkans, you deny that you are OG genocidal people of the Balkans, you love democracy and liberalism, but when the cameras are off you are proud about genocide that you did, when the Nazis arrived in Cro you threw flowers on them
"The Ustashe regime systematically murdered approximately 300,000 to 500,000 Serbs out of whom up to 52,000 died at the Jasenovac concentration camp, according to current estimates." source Wikipedia I did not make this out, look it up
Lies are the best thing ever, they ultimately lead to truth, I don't know how can you live with yourself or you are too dumb to realize that lies are the essence of your national identity
@@ivkekosovo the serbian orthodox church had the idea of a greater serbia and guess they are chetniks too
Islam is the exact same so that's why it's so corrupt
Dude, the Eastern Orthodox didn't excommunicate the Pope. The Pope excommunicated the Orthodox and the Orthodox excommunicated the Pope back
Matheus Motta Vatican 2 is an apostate church which isn’t Catholic anyway it’s abundantly clear it’s the schismatic on , Francis is a heretic and thus not a valid Bishop of Rome
@@enlightenedsoy-basedneohum9118 You're dumb
You should say that the other patriarchs all together excommunicated him.
@@enlightenedsoy-basedneohum9118 so wrong..you sedaventacists are a pain in the Church!
So they excommunicated Pope
I'm sorry you had a poor experience within the orthodox church. I'm an American who is German ethnically. I go to a Greek orthodox cathedral and I've never been so accepted in any atmosphere like I am in this one. Orthodoxy is for everyone
An American with German ethnicity and I am pondering about a religious change in the next year. Glad that you made your comment.
It wasn't about a poor experience in the Orthodox Church that made his decision smh
No it's not. Orthodox Christians hate me and always attack and insult me.
I'm of Mexican ancestry and I go to an Antiochian church, and I've felt accepted even when I visited Russian and Greek Orthodox churches
I definitely understand what you’re saying in regards to ethnicity in the Orthodox Church. I’m African American, what church would I be able to attend? I love how Universal the Catholic Church is. All are welcomed💖 Thanks for sharing🥰
I’ll never understand the hang-ups people have about national churches (that is, if they actually do any research into why the situation in the West is the way it is). Orthodoxy is the One True Faith, and every single Orthodox Church believes the exact same thing and worships in virtually the exact same way. The language is different in different countries because-surprise-they’re different countries! While the Catholics stuck to their Latin no matter where they went, leaving the masses to orally understand nothing that was being read or chanted in their services, Orthodox missionaries laboriously translated all the services, hymns and prayers into the native tongue of whatever culture they were ministering to. In fact, as an example, the Cyrillic script used to write almost all the languages of Eastern Europe was invented by two missionary saints, Cyril (after whom it’s named) and Methodius! Over time, as these local churches develop in their respective nations, they become big enough to necessitate local governance. So they become “national” churches. They’re all in communion with each other, of course, and believe the same things, of course; literally nothing changes. Things only get tricky when you fast-forward to modern-day immigration to Western countries, particularly in North America. It’s rather complicated, but essentially immigrants come from all over the world to the brand-new country of the USA, at a time when they’re all still adapting to using English as a lingua franca with other immigrants and using their native tongues within their own communities. Each community brings priests and bishops from their old countries and establish churches, because the Russian churches (which were in America before any other Orthodox were, as they were colonizing Alaska) don’t work too well for people who only speak Greek, or Serbian, or Arabic, etc. It’s a tragedy, indeed, that nowadays we in America will often have several bishops in the same city (which is against the canons, which mandate one bishop per city), but the concept of America and immigration to it was a new concept and nothing like anything else in history before it. We’re working on it, but it doesn’t change the history and tradition of the Church and the fact that Orthodoxy is the religion of the apostles, preserved faithfully and in full throughout the ages. I would suggest visiting your local OCA (Orthodox Church in America) parish for more information, and certainly before making any decisions about which church you’d like to join in the end. OCA is great if you want an English-speaking parish that is super welcoming to inquirers. It’s also the only native American Orthodox jurisdiction (rooted in the very first Russian missionary expeditions to Alaska and America in the 1700’s, even before the founding of the United States as a country). Any other Orthodox parish is fine, but that’s what I’d recommend. I’m a Canadian of Ethiopian descent and I’ve had no problems. I’ve found my OCA parish to be the most multicultural and welcoming church I’ve ever been in. I’m confident you’ll have the same experience. Now that’s universal.
God bless you on your journey, sister.
@Christus Rex
I understand that Orthodoxy is for everyone because Christianity is for everyone. And I know there are Orthodox people around the world. What I’m saying is there is no general Orthodox Church, for everyone regardless of ethnicity. And when it comes to ethnicities there is no African American Orthodox Church. If there is a general Orthodox Church or an African American Orthodox Church, please let me know🥰
@@nuzzi6620 Thanks for explaining all that to me!💖 I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having national churches & I can understand why but why isn’t there just a general Orthodox Church? If that’s something they’re working on that’s great!🙆🏽♀️ I just feel like if you’re not that ethnicity & walk into that Church they’re not going to be welcoming & make you feel like you don’t belong. Kinda like what Brian was saying about his experience. If it’s not like that I’m sorry for misunderstanding. I’ve always wanted to go to an Orthodox Church to at least visit.😢 I will look up OCA!🙏🏽💖 Thank you & God Bless you too.🥰🥰🥰
You could attend any you want.. My Greek Parish had a lot of African Americans, even Asians.
@@LovedbyJesus23 Why would there be an African American Orthodox Church? There's no need for that. We already have the Orthodox Church in America. Segregation based on race is just weird.
I’m a British/German and have been Greek Orthodox my entire life and the church has never had a problem with my ethnicity, personal interested to see other people’s opinions
Serbian Ortodox here, you are our brother and welcome in any Serbian Ortodox church in the world. I guarantee you that. Your ethnicity, language, etc is not a problem. Like a said, you are our Ortodox brother!
i am a swiss blond hair and I am getting baptised our day 27 before our Easter, they do russian and then english it is just beautiful
Thanks for making these videos. You put my thoughts into words and that makes them so much less confusing. I went to an Orthodox mass once. Maybe it wasn't as weird, because I went to a somehow touristic Church, in Yekaterinburg. Still, Russians weren't yet very used to foreigners, but it was more about me adapting to their rite and not them trying to accommodate for me. Because of my several trips, I have met other Eastern Orthodox people, and I respect them and feel close to some of them, but there's always the national barrier that I don't think will ever disappear, so even if I was convinced by their version of the religion, it's not really up to me to become one of them. You're right, the Catholic Church has really made a big effort to actually become a universal Church. Seriously, thank you for doing these videos. For me, it's not even like you're convincing me of anything, but you're helping me straighten up my own thoughts, ideas and beliefs, in your simple way of explaining things.
Let me ask you a question, if you go to a Catholic church in italy, will you expect the service to be in English, in Church Latin, or in whatever is your native language? Or in Italian? And how is that different from your experience in Yekatetinburg - and why then the Italian church with services in italian is more "universal" than the russian church with services in russian?
Another phenomenal product! I enjoy learning about both my Faith and your exercise of reason.
Hi, I’m an Australian of German ancestry but go to the local Greek Orthodox Church that being named, believe it or not, St Nicholas. I have always found the Greek people to be a warm and welcoming group and along with me there is a French family, an ex Canadian and his daughter, and older English/Australian. Of course many of the Greeks have married into Aussie families and Aussies have married into Greek just like in the film, “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”. Thing is, if you get to know people they will get to know you and as Christians if you’re happy to pray with them they are happy to pray with you. Of course any community with a strong sense of culture and history is not going to give that up easily, nor should they but if “outsiders” show respect then they are treated as friends.
This is so wrong. Orthodoxy is for everyone, there are orthodox Chinese, Japanese, Indian Pakastani, Columbia etc...
George Papadopoulos;
So who has the keys to heaven.
Athens/Jerusalem/Moscow or Rome.
One office was given one main office.
In the US you look to the president.In Canada you look to the Prime Minister.In Britain you look to the Prime Minister.For heaven we look to the Papacy.
They are just stupid cities, piles of bricks, they don't have keys, bishops that uphold Orthodox Faith have the keys.
What about the office of Peter.
Now the House of David is like, you know, the House of Bourbon. It's a dynastic reference. The House of David is the Davidic kingdom, the Davidic dynasty. We know this because David has been dead for hundreds of years when this is happening in Isaiah 22, "I will give you the key of the House of David. He shall open and none shall shut, and he shall shut and none shall open.
He will become a throne of honor to his father's house." Look at all of the symbols of dynastic authority that are being given to this individual. First of all, an office. Second, a robe. Third, a throne and fourth, keys, the key of the House of David, these royal keys.This is in Rome the papacy.
Romans 1;7
7 To all that are at Rome, the beloved of God, called to be saints. Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Christ has the keys to heaven. We Orthodox look to Christ for heaven, not to this or that bishop.
Marius Filip;
Well Milan is the fashion capital of the world lol.
I am from Serbia and I am orthodox. I go to the church in my country and when I'm in Greece I go to the "greek" church and pray like usual, same goes for Romania, Russia, Macedonia... There is no ethnicity in orthodox church. You have the wrong impression about that.
@@pennsyltuckyreb9800 Honestly, it is very hard to believe and understand what I've read
That's bullshit and you know it. What orthodox church is there that doesn't have their Nationality's name attached to it?
@@cupocity303 I really don't care about that. It is one God, one faith.
@@cupocity303 Dude it's literally like that I'm also Serbian and i prayed at Greek and Romanian orthodox churches like at those in Serbia. It's not really about nationality the only important thibg is that it's orthodox church.
@@cupocity303 You mean like other churches?
3:50 in and I'm like "whoa, we live in the same place!!" Have you ever tried visiting the two OCA churches? Those are supposed to be multi-national, and apparently St.Herman of Alaska on the West End is just that. Of course, I haven't checked it out either, and I agree whole heartily with your thoughts on the ethnic situation on the Eastern side. Which Catholic church do you go to if you don't mind me asking?
Thank you for your boldness at the end, very interesting and beautifully put arguments
Your conclusion really got me thinking (and once again, I greatly appreciate your clear, solid reasoning). It's not the first time that I've noticed what you pointed out in that last bit, you just made me think about it in a way that is helpful. I've had internal difficulties arise when I begin to consider it, so I've shut down the thoughts so as to avoid the near occasion of sin. Really. It's so tempting to get cocky about it. But that's like the right hand thinking it's superior to the left. These are Apostolic Churches, with the Real Presence. The right regard is sorrow -- not despair, mind you, but recognition that things aren't the way Jesus prayed for them to be. I greatly appreciate the way you led a prayer without formalities, by pointing to the prayer Jesus prayed. The very words you used are a prayer, pointing to what we should be praying for and why.
Father in heaven, grant that Your Church may unite as one, that the whole world might know that You alone are God. I ask this in the Name of Jesus Christ, Your Son. Amen.
I appreciate your time and effort to create such a well made video that explained your experience. I am sorry to hear about your negative experience with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, I would recommend that you do not let that one Church become your view of Orthodoxy as a whole. I will also say that this is a big reason why the Antiochian Orthodox Western Write is growing very quickly in the Americas. Praying for you brother!
I returned back home to Orthodoxy from going to the born agains (false Christians) and thank God back to Orthodoxy 🙏💒✝️ Here are the major differences between Orthodox and catholics and ofcourse protestants
th-cam.com/video/hZNtaFzIqJc/w-d-xo.html
@@ChristianOrthodoxMiracles
Both Eastern and Oriental orthodoxy is hersey!
@@SuleimanTheMagnificent71618 wrong
@@eliasm5784 yes
@@SuleimanTheMagnificent71618 No, you're not making sense
I congratulate you on this extremely interesting and perceptive piece.
My priest is a black man from Alabama and a convert to Orthodoxy. By your reasoning he should be a minister in some AME holiness church. I'm glad he wouldn't agree with you.
Congratulations! You're the first to bring insult and American politics into this discussion! Trump much?
As a black woman from New York and a former convert to Orthodoxy only because of my previous Anti-catholic bias, I would say that this man should probably do more research on exactly what the Orthodox and Catholics say and look at the history from both sides unbiased. The Catholic Church is the only Church that has representation from all of the ancient churches both east and west. NO OTHER CHURCH CAN SAY THAT!
Robert Kyril Jordan ew
tim spangler wrong, GOD gave the bishops authority, protestanism is a continuous rebellion against the church
tim spangler faith alone is not in the bible, you're the son of luther
I love your videos. I learn so much, and learn better ways to discuss these topics.
Hi Brian. Bit like a message in a bottle; Four years on and I am watching these videos of yours for the first time. I am a cradle Catholic in the autumn of my life and am struggling with sin habitually. I have often with much intensity looked towards Eastern Orthodoxy as the magic bullet to solve or at least distract me from this struggle. I can find so much wrong in my local parishes and blame this for my lack of transformation in Christ. I have concluded that despite the many problems in the Catholic Church, it is still and will remain the hospital, where sick sinful creatures like me can find healing and Mercy leading to transformation (deification) . There is so much treasure here in the Catholic Church, that even if I was to live for a million years, I still would not be able to apprehend a fraction of it.
I believe that the time is fast approaching when the Church will be driven underground; then there will be no altar, no lovely adorned church buildings, very few priests. The Apostles never had any of this, so; I have a massive piece of wood stuck in my eye and I need to spend the rest of the time, God has given me, to try with His help to remove it. I would hazard a guess that there are a few here in the comments section that also are in need of the Master Carpenter to deal with some wood splinters (Catholic and Orthodox).
Like your videos, Brian; I find them a catalyst for self reflection.
John
Strong orthodoxy în România! Greatings to all orthodox people!
Greetings to you, I am not Russian but I love our church
Is orthodoxy still strong there?
yes
@@lorraine5800 About 80% of the people in Romania are Christian Orthodox.
@@lorraine5800 Same here in Serbia
You seem to misunderstand a lot abou the Orthodox Church
Please elaborate
anyone can be orthodox ..there are scores of Americans and English in England who are Greek orthodox..even some of the Mainsteam books on Greek Orthodoxy are written not by greeks or russians..like Timothy Ware who became orthodox. anyway Jesus told me Orthodox so that's what i became and it's a gorgeous way to be a Christian i have found
Christina I’m a American born kid who’s joining Greek Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is for everybody
@@patrickmartin8783 How come suicides and abortions are so prevalent in Orthodox countries?
terioze9 because there is a divide between the church and the government
Wonderful explanation!!! Thanks for making this video. God bless you and your family🙏
I found this so helpful Brian! I was actually raised Catholic and then did the Catholic slide to Lutheran and then Baptist. I was gonna check out Eastern Orthodoxy but I just feel like the Catholic Church is home for me. I plan on getting into a local Parish here in SC since I moved. Again God Bless you and your family!
@sphynxbabe. I’m a recent SC transplant myself. Just joined a great Parish in the Hilton Head area. First time I’m back in the faith after 30 years away and I’m loving it. Jump in head first! Most churches have study groups that are really helpful. I attend a mens group that is fantastic. Best of luck and God Bless.
Excellent. I enjoyed this very much. From a brother Portuguese Catholic.
I’m a covert to orthodoxy from catholic. Bless Orthodox Church ☦️
It depends on why you converted. There are good and bad reasons. If the reason is "I had bad experience with a Catholic and I hate the Pope", that's a bad reason. You missed the point of what Christ is trying to say about your neighbor and yourself. That you'll bless the Orthodox Church, but not all Christians, is a bad sign.
I don't like the catholic church because of a few of a few heresies, mainly Papal supremacy witch can be easily be countered by a few example and the immaculate conception.
well it means you lack of history of the early christianity
Sorry man but unless you are a preist you cannot give blessings but I'm with you 💯
Greetings from Orthodox russians, my dear brother!
Great summary! Thanks for sharing your journey!
I appreciate your comments, Brian. I converted from Lutheranism to Orthodoxy, but that was not without a brief stay in considering Roman Catholicism. I empathize with you on the issue of ethnicity.
I am sorry for your departure from the true Apostolic tradition.
@@dave1370 Why?
@@dave1370You’re a funny guy
So you won’t submit to a Greek patriarch but you will to an Italian one?
Greeks and Aramaic were the first languages of the bible. When Jesus saw the Greeks coming towards him he uttered " now came the time my name will be glorified". That is a very serious statement. God loved the GREEKS so we are the first to recieve the holy light and spread it to the rest of the Orthodox world. May God shine his light on new comers. God wants to see all his people in one faith, the true ancient paths and the Orthodox did preserve this for 2000 years even with the persecution by barbarians and fellow Christians . The Crusades
As peter was living in Rome, obviously, he was the bishop there. Jesus gave peter the keys. Then, all roman bishops are successors of peter.
All other bishops of places which peter founded cannot be his successors as peter left bishops there at the time.
Rafael Costa wrong
I imagine the near east would be much better place if only the muslims didn't wipe out the old greek colonies there.
@@RafaelCosta-fy7tb St. Peter was also bishop of Antioch, a very major jurisdiction in early Christianity; even St. Paul was sent out as a missionary from Antioch.
So why don't Catholics make the same claim about Antioch that they do about Rome?
11:38
The Battle of Lepanto is my favourite pro Mama Maria's intercession story❤
Your videos are so clean and aesthetic and I can't tell you how much I appreciate seeing that.
God bless you and your family. My prayers are with you. Peace to you
Im from Nafpaktos Greece (Lepanto)
@@georgekakaboukis6961
You're so lucky!
I have to appreciate that you present your views and faith in a human context, as one side of a multifaceted discussion.
I became an Eastern Orthodox Christian b 4 Pascha this year.
And what does it mean that you became an E. Orthodox Christian?
elisabeth dakak It means she was baptized and chrismated like every other Eastern Orthodox.
Or maybe only chrismated. As long as you have been baptised previously in the name of the Holy Trinity then that’s fine (as far as I was told). If you haven’t been baptised in the name of the Trinity before then it’s the full works (like I had).
Είδωμεν το Φως το Αληθινών !
Me too! God bless you
I would have to say that spending more time studying the crusades would enlighten your understanding of the decline of the Eastern Church in the Middle East. In addition, eastern Christendom served as a barrier to the onslaught of Islam for well over 1,000 years. Eastern Christians have suffered through the centuries as second class citizens under Islamic law. Even today the Ecumenical Patriarch is prohibited from maintaining a seminary in Istanbul (Constantinople).
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Im Greek Orthodox. I really appreciate you sharing your journey.
Keep up the great work, God bless you
I appreciate your video, Brian! I have long wondered why people choose one over another. May the Lord continue to bless you, and all of us, though your gracious and informative video teaching.
He is dead wrong- the East hasn't changed its position on the authority of the Bishop of Rome. A primacy of honor, first among equals. That is what Orthodoxy still believes. Whereas it is ROME that has changed, it has expanded the role of the Pope way beyond where it was before the schism. This guy is really off-base.
I agree, but you still must respect him, he's a brother.
Please ellaborate, if you will, sir?
joseph conder ... could you please further explain for those of us who would like to hear your take on this ?
Well, simply the Orthodox still believe the Bishop of Rome's rightful place is as first among equals. Read You Are Peter by Olivier Clement.
Yes, I respect him.
Local to me, the Eastern Orthodox Churches work together and hold service as one church in times of renovation, natural disaster, etc. from what I’ve gathered, the separation of ethnic origins in Eastern Orthodoxy is to keep a sense of ethnic culture and tradition as well as Eastern Orthodoxy tradition. I think your experience of feeling awkward in that Ukrainian church is unique and uncommon.
I've definitely felt a bit "other" in a Ukrainian Orthodox church, while I've felt very welcome in a Ukrainian Greek Catholic church. That said, I don't have nearly a large enough sample size to draw real conclusions.
Any church that dubs itself "Ukrainian" in the west is schismatics and/or heretics. This is because the only legitimate Ukrainian Orthodox Church is under the omophore of the Moscow Patriarch, and outside of the Ukraine its faithful worship in the churches of ROC MP. My local church in London certainly has lots of Ukrainians in it (also Georgians, Romanians, Bulgarians and "native English").
I am catholic in the Roman tradition and am deeply proud of it. I love the eastern catholic traditions as well. Importantly, I love Orthodoxy too. When life is tough, I find it important to look east and recognise what has always and everywhere been believed.
I am also a Roman Catholic believer. I have met many people from Eastern Orthodox faith. Some are pretty great people and amazing friends (they are mostly of Greek, Serb, and Russian descent, you know how friendly they really are) and some (sadly from the same countrymen as myself) were overly zealous and sort of disliked me in an instant when they heard that I was (and still am) with Roman Catholic Church.
The thing is.... Doesn't matter what sort of faith one embraces, it is the person that matters..
I know I may not going to convert myself to Eastern Orthodoxy, but I still feel that every single Orthodox Christianity believers are my brothers and sisters too.
So, I'll say Hi to my brothers and sisters from Roman Catholic and the Orthodox churches.. And shall this day be a blessing for all of us.
I’m a white guy that has been going to Antiochian Orthodox Church for a month, there are people of Middle Eastern and Greek descent, but also white guys that converted. So I can’t say that I agree with you, the people at the church are very nice and welcoming. I’m not saying I’m gonna convert but I am at least going to read up more on the church to make an informed decision. I love the Divine Liturgy, such a beautiful service, and have attended a Paraklesis service once, I know some of the doctrine but not enough yet. That will change over the next month or two.
Any updates on your faith journey? Just curious to know
I'm an inquirer into orthodoxy. In the parish I visit weekly, this has never been a problem. It's a Greek parish, and there's a number of Greek people there, as well as people of Greek descent, but they're around half of the regulars there. I have never felt isolated or looked weird at for not being Greek. In fact, the first person to introduce me there was a Bulgarian woman, and I am being instructed by a local man (not of Greek origin or descent).
However, ethocentrism *is* a problem in the orthodox church. I haven't had a problem with it, but this is true enough for the patriarchs themselves to recognize it and emphasize that ethocentrism is a heresy (or a sin, I'm not sure which of the two, and how big of a difference there is between them).
They *do* want more people in the church, and they don't want to remain so localized. However, their way of evangelizing is through lifestyle and example. They don't believe in Jesuit practices. This has its pros and cons.
I've been Orthodox for 6 months and I think that evangelism is the biggest problem. Also the fact that I have to constantly check and see if I'm in communion with a church before I attend is a problem.
This is what i saw and felt "dominationalism" i felt the same vibe with a sense that i felt like an outsider and alienated me was almost i had to become mideastern first becore rea;lly accepted kind of like in the beginng the Judeisers insisted you had to be cirumcised become a Jew before you were baptised and entered in full communion wuith the church'.
I was face to face with that... believe me im nod spring chicken and Catholic.Me going it was not done lightly. i justed didnt wake up Sunday and decide to go.
th-cam.com/video/wVwq5NEnot/w-d-xo.html 8ODknot
I've never had a positive experience with the Orthodox. Very standoff and enclosed people. Never understood it.
Same here, I was an inquirer as well a while back. The individual church really does make or break the experience with Orthodoxy. An out of state friend of mine had a ROCOR church that was very open to him, despite him being very much an Irishman. However my churches have more or less heavily leaned into their ethnicities that I would feel left out of the loop, not just due to closed communion mind you. I have other issues with Orthodoxy but this post *really* spoke to me since I really don't want to come off as ignorant when it comes to something as serious as converting to a faith and I usually do a lot of research before I actually step foot into a church.
I also read Jesus's prayer for unity right before becoming catholic, and I felt Jesus speaking to me through it in reassurance of my decision. His heart really is in His one, holy, and apostolic church.
Awsome explanation! Thank you and God bless you! You are finally home brother!!!
God bless the Orthodox Church.
I'm Armenian Orthodox I love my Orthodox brothers I enjoy visiting other Orthodox churches its like a big family.
jeisa Jeis
Not really. The book of revelation mentions the continued existence of the nations. It says that Jesus will rule over all nations and they will all be brought under his feet. But it doesn’t say they will cease to exist. They will just be under one divine Lordship.
I returned back home to Orthodoxy from going to the born agains (false Christians) and thank God back to Orthodoxy 🙏💒✝️ Here are the major differences between Orthodox and catholics and ofcourse protestants
th-cam.com/video/hZNtaFzIqJc/w-d-xo.html
@Mike Parsegian Hello. No offence intended but the Armenian Christology and the non-Chalcedonian Christology as a whole, is not Orthodox. It rejects the monophysitism of Eutyches and that of Dioscorus of Alexandria but is based on the Monophysitism of Severus of Antioch (465-538) who rejected the Tome of St.Leo that was accepted at the 4th Ecumenical Council, at Chalcedon (451). St.Leo says in his Tome the following which is rejected by Severus:,,…For as “God” is not changed by the compassion [exhibited], so “Man” is not consumed by the dignity [bestowed]. For each “form” does the acts which belong to it, in communion with the other; the Word, that is, performing what belongs to the Word, and the flesh carrying out what belongs to the flesh; the one of these shines out in miracles, the other succumbs to injuries.“
Severus’ beliefs are summarized, for example, in the article of the Coptic author Mina Soliman ''St.Severus of Antiovh and the Julianist controversy":,,Severus believed that the humanity of Christ is filled with divine energy, but that does not ignore the human energy. … Julian would criticize Severus that he becomes no different from Pope Leo of Rome and the Chalcedonians, but Severus would retort that the subject of the willing and acting is the Logos, which he would contest Pope Leo did not confess.“
If, when referring to the time after the Incarnation, by ,,one subject“ we understand one Person/Hypostasis in Christ, it is right and it is true that the Hypostasis/Person of the Word which was one before the Incarnation, remained one after the Incarnation with the difference that the simple Hypostasis before the Incarnation became complex after the Incarnation in the sense that now two nature subsisted in it - divine and human. Will - divine or human, is a natural property and of course, its mode is always hypostatic because the Person/Hypostasis of Christ is one. But if we say that the subject of the human willing and acting after the Incarnation, is the Logos, the Logos Itself, the Word Itself, the Word alone, then comes an issue. This is because the expressions the Logos, the Logos Itself, the Word itself, the Word alone refer to the Person/Hypostasis of the Logos and to the divinity, to the divine nature and energy since the eternal Logos’ own nature and energy, i.e. the eternal nature and energy of the Logos, are only the divine nature and energy unlike the created human nature and energy which became His own nature and energy in addition to the eternal divine nature and energy after the Incarnation when the Logos assumed the created human nature and energy. That way, when we say that the Logos is the subject of the human willing and actions, since the human willing and the actions do not belong to the Hypostasis but belong to the human nature and proceed from the human energy, then it follows that the human willing and actions belong to His divine nature and so proceed from His divine energy. That would mean that his human nature does not have its own energy. Therefore, it would follow that after the Incarnation the divine nature and energy of Christ have changed as they would now have two wills and kinds of actions - divine and human, i.e. it would follow that God has changed which is impossible (James 1:17). Also, if the divine nature and energy have changed after the Incarnation, that would mean either that the divine nature and energy of Christ only have changed which would cause a split in the Trinity, or that since the divine nature and energy are common for the Three Persons, the divine nature and energy of all Three Persons have changed which would mean that the Three Persons have Incarnated. A split of the Trinity is impossible because God is One Being in Three Persons and it is not that the Three Persons have incarnated because only the Word that became flesh (John 1:14). So, the human willing and actions of Christ do not belong to the divine nature and proceed from the divine energy but instead belong to the human nature and proceed from the energy of the human nature, i.e. the created human nature of Christ has its own energy. So, the only way for the Divine Word, the Logos that refers only to the Hypostasis and the eternal divine nature and energy, to be the subject of the human willing and actions, is if at the Incarantion there occurred a confusion of the divine nature and energy, and the human nature and energy and that would lead to Monenergism because there would be a one new, mixed energy and one new, mixed energy, i.e. Monophysitism. (The mixture of the natures and energies means also a mixture of the divine and human wills which would lead to a one, new mixed will, i.e. Monothelitism.) Therefore, although it is true that the subject of the human willing and actions is the Person/Hypostasis of the Word because the Hypostasis before and after the Incarnation is one and so the mode of the wills is hypostatic as it was already said, it is wrong to say that it is the Logos which is the subject of the human willing and actions because the expression ,,the Logos“ refers to the divine nature and energy, except to the Hypostasis of the Logos, i.e. it does not refer to the assumed human nature and energy and that would suggest that there occured a change in God’s nature after the Incarnation of the Word and also that His human nature does not have its own energy. As it was shown, both suggestions are not true. As the eternal Logos’ own nature and energy, i.e. the eternal nature and energy of the Logos, are only the divine nature and energy, to say that after the Incarnation it is the Logos, i.e. the Logos Itself, that is the subject of both the divine and human willing and actions, means to confuse Hypostasis and nature - in this case the divine nature. It would be precise if we say that it is the Incarnate Logos or incarnate Word which is the subject of the divine and human willing and actions because those expressions - Incarnate Logos, incarnate Word, refer to both nature - divine and human as the word ,,incarnate“ refers specifically to the created human nature of Christ.
As it was said, St.Leo says in his Tome the following which is rejected by Severus:,,For as “God” is not changed by the compassion [exhibited], so “Man” is not consumed by the dignity [bestowed]. For each “form” does the acts which belong to it, in communion with the other; the Word, that is, performing what belongs to the Word, and the flesh carrying out what belongs to the flesh; the one of these shines out in miracles, the other succumbs to injuries.“ Since the eternal Word’s own nature and energy, i.e. the eternal nature and energy of the Logos, are only the divine nature and energy, wherefore it is wrong to say that after the Incarnation it is the Word, i.e. the Word Itself, that is the subject of the human willing and actions because it would mean that since the human willing and actions belong to the nature, belong to the divine nature, St.Leo is right when he says that the Word, i.e. the Word Itself perfoms what belongs to the Word, i.e. only the divine actions. When he says that the flesh performs the human actions, he does not mean in a Nestorian sense but only in the sense that the human actions proceed from the human energy which is not the Word, i.e. the Word Itself Whose energy is only the divine energy from which there proceed only the divine actions.
@Mike Parsegian It must be added that St.Cyril explains his the famous phrase ,,Mia Physis Tou Theou Logou Sesarkomene“ in his second letter to Succensus:,,For if we had said that there was one nature of the Word and had kept silent and not added that it was ‘incarnate’, as if we were excluding the economy, they might perhaps have had a point when they pretended to ask where was the perfection in the humanity or how did our human essence endure. But since both the perfection in the humanity and the assertion of our human essence is implied by the word ‘incarnate’ then let them stop leaning on this broken staff (Is.36.6). For if anyone took away from the Son his perfect humanity he could rightly be accused of throwing the economy overboard, and of denying the incarnation.“ As he explains, the phrase refers to Christ’s human nature, so it is not used in a non-Chalcedonian sense. In accordance with the explaination of St.Cyril, the correct translation of the phrse is ,,One Incarnated Nature of the Word“ and not as it is sometimes incorrectly translated:,,one nature of the Word Incarnate“. Another argument against the acceptance that according to his human nature Christ is a fully human person (without the reference to His human nature as a human person implying Nestorianism), which is held by the Severians was that there is not a nature with no hypostasis (subsistence) and since His human nature came to subsist in the pre-existent Hypostasis of the Word after the Incarnation, thus not having its own hypostasis, it cannot be referred to as a human person because that would imply Nestorianism. But St.John of Damascus dedicates one of the chapters in his ,,Exact exposition of the Orthodox faith“ exactly to that question of the Severians and he refutes that wrong view. St.John of Damascus, Exact expositon of the Orthodox faith, Book 3, Chapter IX. In reply to the question whether there is Nature that has no Subsistence:,,For although there is no nature without subsistence, nor essence apart from person (since in truth it is in persons and subsistences that essence and nature are to be contemplated), yet it does not necessarily follow that the natures that are united to one another in subsistence should have each its own proper subsistence. For after they have come together into one subsistence, it is possible that neither should they be without subsistence, nor should each have its own peculiar subsistence, but that both should have one and the same subsistence. For since one and the same subsistence of the Word has become the subsistence of the natures, neither of them is permitted to be without subsistence, nor are they allowed to have subsistences that differ from each other, or to have sometimes the subsistence of this nature and sometimes of that, but always without division or separation they both have the same subsistence--a subsistence which is not broken up into parts or divided, so that one part should belong to this, and one to that, but which belongs wholly to this and wholly to that in its absolute entirety. For the flesh of God the Word did not subsist as an independent subsistence, nor did there arise another subsistence (hypostasis) besides that of God the Word, but as it existed in that it became rather a subsistence which subsisted in another, than one which was an independent subsistence (hypostasis). Wherefore, neither does it lack subsistence (hyspoastsis) altogether, nor yet is there thus introduced into the Trinity another subsistence (hypostasis).“ So the human nature of Christ subsists in the Hypostasis of the Word and that means neither that the human nature is without a hypostasis. It took the Hypostasis of the Word as its own hypostasis. Therefore the argument that the human nature of Christ cannot be referred to as a human person because it does not have its own hypostasis, is refuted. Therefore, since the human nature of Christ has its own energy and is not without a hypostasis, it can be referred to as a fully human person without that being Nestorianism.
I've recently subscribed to your channel and I would just like to say that your content is fantastic and super informative. Thank-you for these videos, your insight and knowledge has increased my education and understanding of Catholicism and the Christian faith.
Dang, Alberta boy! I have seen a dozen of your videos and could have sworn you were eastern seaboard! Edmonton! Our nation's capital! You are 2 hours away! I had no idea. Keep up the good work and God bless!
As a cradle Catholic all my life it's as if I am a fish surrounded by water of Catholism . It is wonderful to listen to someone who has sought out God and arrived at our beautiful church with alas mostly minimum help from us.God bless you and keep you always close to Him.
Catholicism? Oh dear
@@joeycsk8305 I hate to break it to you, but this is a Catholic channel with over 100k subs. If every Catholic comment upsets you, you're going to have a rough time falling asleep at night.
@@CybermanKing dont worry I do really sleep well. Thanks for your concern.
It came to prayers for me, I asked God where he wanted me, all I saw was Catholicism all around me from the bible to getting pulled into the Catholic Church and then the church fathers to know the history of Christianity. I find Catholicism to be so beautiful and I feel at home.
@@MikeyAGoGo101 I don’t distrust your prayers, but could you be more specific? I’m genuinely curious what brought you to Catholicism as a revert myself.
"What you found attractive about Protestantism" with due respect it doesn't matter what is attractive to you, the question is what is theologically true.
And I agree with the Orthodox church that I reject the authority of the papacy.
JOHN 17:21
"that they may all be ONE. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me".
EPHESIANS 4:3-6
"ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL".
This UNITY or point of convergence have been the constant presence of The HOLY SPIRIT promised by Christ, guiding the Church BUILT on PETER to all truth and continuing with his successors, the Vicars of Christ, throughout the centuries faithfully guiding our Catholic family to unity and truth, while aided by the prayers of our saints and many faithful theologians, even after death.
It all begins with
Matthew 16:18-19
18 And I tell YOU, YOU are PETER, and on THIS ROCK I will BUILD MY CHURCH, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. .
19 I will GIVE YOU the KEYS of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you BIND on earth shall be BOUND in HEAVEN, and whatever you LOOSE on earth shall be LOOSED in HEAVEN.”
The name “PETER” comes from the Greek word for “ROCK.” JESUS makes him the FOUNDATION on which the CHURCH is to be BUILT. The word “CHURCH ” means “assembly” or “society” of believers. The Hebrew equivalent is used in the Old Testament to indicate the chosen people. In applying it to the church, Jesus shows it to be the Messianic community foretold by the prophets.
AND PETER has the KEY to the gates of the city of God. This POWER is exercised through the church. “BINDING ” and “LOOSING ” are rabbinic terms referring to excommunication, then later to forbidding or allowing something. Not only can PETER admit to the kingdom; he also has power to make authoritative decisions in matters of FAITH and MORALS.
Today, there's no greater comfort to read, assimilate and be inspired by teachings from St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Iraenaeus of Lyon, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, Pope St. Damasus 1st., Pope St. Leo the Great, St. Francis of Asisi, St. Padre Pio, Pope St. John the XXIII, Pope St. John Paul the II, our present Pope Francis the First, etc. To name a few of the venerable guides in our catholic family.
UNITY means NO SCHISM.
@@joecastillo8798 If Peter is the Rock, why is the roman pope the "rock" ? Rome was the center of pagan Roman Empire. Constantinopel became the New Christian Rome, the center and seat of a new Roman Empire, this time a Christian one. Not only the Emperor but allso the Ecumenical Patriarch seated in Constantinpel the New Rome. So once again why do you think your Rome is the center and your pope the Rock? Because Peter died in Rome ? Well the popes (patriarch in greek) after him moved to the new capitol Constantinopel the New Rome. So the bishop of Rome is just a bishop who elevated himself to the rang of Patriarch of the Universal Church and lateron even to being "Christ on earth". The real pope is still seated in Constantinopel.
@@NeuSatz72 Amen. Papacy didn't exist until 5th century.
(Even though I attend evangelical churches, I love you Orthodox and agree with you theologically a lot. I must admit you are theologically more sound than most protestant pastors and we evangelicals can learn a lot from you.)
@@joecastillo8798 To be "ONE" we must believe the same. Since Rome changed the Creed we do not believe the same and are not "in communio". We are no longer "One in mind and spirit". We are no longer one body, one church. So, 2 churches are not possible. One of them must be fauls. It is up to you to find out which church stayed faithful and which changed after a 1000 years of Christianity the Creed and till now introduced so many changes.
@@NeuSatz72
My friend,
I am part of the ONE true Church, The Catholic Church.
This is why?
Matthew 16:18-19
18. And I tell YOU, YOU are PETER, and on THIS ROCK I will BUILD MY CHURCH, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19. I will GIVE YOU the KEYS of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you BIND on earth shall be BOUND in HEAVEN, and whatever you LOOSE on earth shall be LOOSED in HEAVEN.”
There's only one Peter, the Rock over whom The Church is built and he died in Rome. All his successors inherited the Chair and the promise of our Lord to be with him until the end of times.
In ancient times, keys were the hallmark of authority. To be given the key to the city, an honor that exists even today, meant to be given free access to and authority over the city.
The city to which Peter was given the keys was the heavenly city itself. This symbolism for authority is used elsewhere in the Bible (Is. 22:22, Rev. 1:18).
After the resurrection, Jesus appeared to his disciples and asked Peter three times, "Do you love me?" (John 21:15-17). In repentance for his threefold denial, Peter gave a threefold affirmation of love. Then Christ, the Good Shepherd (John 10:11, 14), gave Peter the authority he earlier had promised: "Feed my sheep" (John 21:17). This specifically included the other apostles, since Jesus asked Peter, "Do you love me more than these?" (John 21:15), the word "these" referring to the other apostles who were present (John 21:2). Thus was completed the prediction made just before Jesus and his followers went for the last time to the Mount of Olives.
Immediately before his denials were predicted, Peter was told:
Luke 22:31-32
"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I HAVE PRAYED FOR YOU that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again (after the denials), strengthen your brethren".
It was ONLY PETER who Christ prayed for so he would have faith that would not fail and that would be a guide for the others; and his prayer, being perfectly efficacious, was certain to be fulfilled.
RECORDED HISTORY
From Eusebius (Church History IV.22), we learn that in the middle of the second century Hegesippus, the Hebrew Christian, visited Rome and that he drew up a LIST OF BISHOPS as far as Anicetus, the then POPE. Eusebius does not quote his catalogue, but Lightfoot sees ground for holding that we possess it in a passage of Epiphanius (Haer. 27:6), in which the bishops as far as Anicetus are enumerated. This list of Hegesippus, drawn up less than a century after the martyrdom of St. Peter, was he believes, the foundation alike of the Eusebian and Hippolytan catalogues (Clement of Rome I, 325 so.).
His view has been accepted by many scholars. Even those who, like Harnack (Chronologie, I, 184 sq.), do not admit that this list is really that of Hegesippus, recognize it as a catalogue of Roman origin and of very early date, furnishing testimony independent alike of the Eusebian and Liberian lists.
LETTER XVI OF ST. JEROME TO POPE DAMASUS.
(Written from the desert in the year 377 or 378 aD.)
This letter was another appeal to Pope Damasus to solve his doubts. Here, Jerome once more refers to his baptism at Rome, and declares that his one answer to the factions at Antioch is:
“HE WHO CLINGS TO THE CHAIR OF PETER IS ACCEPTED BY ME.”
LINK TO THE COMPLETE LETTER
St. Jerome Letter XVI. To Pope Damasus.
www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.v.XVI.html
OTHER RELATED LINKS
www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272a.htm
www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm
REFERENCES
1) Joseph Barber Lightfoot (13 April 1828 - 21 December 1889), known as J. B. Lightfoot, was an English theologian and Bishop of Durham.
2) Adolf von Harnack (1851-1930) was a German theologian and prominent church historian.
May God bless your discernment.
Thank you for making a video! More people need to listen to converts stories.
I love when one of my brothers and sisters are able to see the truth.
Please keep spreading your story to help save lost ones and save their soul by bringing them to Jesus Christ.
God bless 🙏❤️💙❤️🙏✝️🛐
My fav video you’ve made, nice work
I agree that the Orthodox Church I attend used to be mostly middle eastern people, but that is no longer the case. People from all different backgrounds, from all around the world attend our church today in America. It’s beautiful!
You are not orthodox because your heart did not call you to become one. Language barriers would not have meant a thing if you were convinced that that is the path for you.
@Collins Anosike My godfather was black- and he wasn't from another country. He only spoke English. :)
Collins Anosike I’m mixed and see black people a lot in church. It’s for everyone! Please continue to learn and grow❤️☦️.
Collins Anosike I’m apart of a Greek Orthodox parish and we do the liturgy in English and Greek. Which is beneficial because there are so many terms in Greek that can’t be explained correctly in English ❤️ what’s the majority of the NT written in? Greek! The KJV misses a lot of context because of mistranslation.
I should make a video on my journey to orthodoxy. I was agnostic and against organized religion. After my encounter with the Holy Spirit; I was told by someone from Greece, who went to Greek Orthodox schools that I sounded like his mother who was Greek Orthodox. Also telling me how terrible it is etc. a month later we stopped talking and I met someone whom I believe to be my future husband who is Mexican/Caucasian and a Greek Orthodox! I prayed to find where God dwelled and where I could find Him and not a place where people make God into what THEY want him to be. I was called to orthodoxy! The devil tried to give me this guy who was everything I wanted of this world. Someone who wanted to travel, backpack and who had money and loved photography like me. But he didn’t have Christ and didn’t want him so it would never work. But yeah satan used him to deter me from truth. But living in Jesus gave me the discernment I needed to find His body, the unbroken church of Christ. The predenominational church!❤️☦️ I pray everyone finds truth❤️
Collins Anosike look up Orthodox Church in Africa, not only do we have Africans and African Americans in our churches, they are in many way the lifeblood. In my church we have several African Americans, Ethiopians, and Kenyans.
Im not eastern orthodox (yet) but I'm very much interested and studying it. I appreciate your point of view although I think I have heard some the details of the history of the schism portrayed a little differently. But beyond that whats interesting to me personally is how some of the things that repelled me from orthodoxy as younger man, partly the church's resistance to change, are now what are drawing me toward it. In my opinion, we are headed for some very difficult times and the root cause of this is man turning his back on God and serving mammon. So the distinction between what is of this world and what is of God is a very important one to me now as I am now being told, for example, that I either allow the world to push chemicals into my bloodstream against my will or i lose my job. This has been a wake up call for me and has forced me to consider if I want to be involved with any organization actively trying to become more worldly to increase its following. I find the word holy to be related in some way to the word interger-a "whole" number, and the word interger to be related to the word integrity. Integrity is in part resistance to change. Resistance to change is now in my mind a good thing as I watch man more and more assume the role of God, and more and more people obey them like gods.
Have you converted yet? I’m studying orthodoxy as well and am going to my first church this Sunday.
@@Thegreatone-tx1yl no I live in a very rural area that doesn't have a church. I have been going to a Catholic church and thinking about joining. I tell myself that Christ wouldn't have wanted the schism and probably doesn't recognized two separate churches.
Why not just follow a east catholic rite?
@@lboh5260 thank you. Found an Orthodox church last November and feeling better about things. Curious though, how does one follow an eastern catholic rite?
@Raymond Dunne there are 23 rites to the catholic church just as the early church. The first among many was always considered Rome prior to 1000 ad. Because the bishop of rome of being the successor of Peter. All the patriarchs of the catholic church has equal authority but just as polycarp did and ignatius of antioch they went to the first among many or the vicar of christ was another wording they used to make sure they were following apostolic succession when facing questions. Of faith and morals. Knowing peter was given the keys of the kingdom. So the eastern rites are eastern they follow their bishop and the pope only has authority when ex cathedra. Which if a fancy way of saying what was before.
Orthodoxy and catholicism separated more because of power everyone wants their country to be the center of the church... and language east spoke Greek west Latin and racism and nationalism just like today then was an issue and a reason to not get along. It is documented and shown that for ecumenical councils east bishops were called to the councils but they refused and decided to try excommunicating the bishop of Rome to hold their national power. East was very nationalized Rome was more spread out over numerous countries. There was no German catholic church like there was the Russian catholic church aka Russian orthodox church. For the monarchs and patriarchs to hold their power they did the split and fought against them selves for even longer. Many have come back and some parts. They practice almost exactly as orthodox do even don't have the filioque in the creed which isn't necessarily one way or the other. Many also have leavened bread. I'd say with time people have respected the culture and the language differences from times prior.
Wonderful video.
This was a very well done and kind video, Brian. I love you how you state from the very beginning your love for our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters. This approach is far superior than the bickering that we see so often between Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, and Protestants. Thank you.
I think "bickering" is good so long as it is to learn which Church is true. If one is true and one is not, a lack of conflict would almost be an insult to God as it demonstrates that you don't care enough to correct error
@@mathieuconklin3146 I can agree with this. I am speaking more to the difference between respectful debate and shouting.
This is such a fascinating topic to me. I was so very drawn to the Orthodox tradition and it really was a huge part of my faith journey that ultimately led me to the Catholic Church. I had become a strong Catholic so obviously I took my faith seriously and the worst feeling is seeing heresy, political garbage, cliques, and abuse in the one environment I thought I could truly trust. I became convinced that because of Orthodox Christianity’s ancient practices and lack of central authority, it was truly the church for me. But my friends, long story short, months of praying and researching just led me to better understand Catholic doctrine and I realized I actually think the Catholics are right. At the end of the day, I am an even more devout Catholic than when I started and I got to learn about the other lung of traditional Christianity so it was a positive experience. I pray Catholics and Orthodox Christians can someday unite to fight evil and live as Jesus wanted. God bless all of you!
I am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. I have recently stumbled upon some fairly compelling Catholic apologetics, and thusly am struggling in certain areas. Would you mind explaining to me what caused you to make up your mind? Thank you, and may God bless you.
@@permanenceaesthetic6545 Praise be to Jesus Christ! I would be happy to briefly explain the bottom-line of my decision to be Catholic (RC) rather than to be Eastern Orthodox (EO). As an EO inquirer my expectation was that the EO were one unified church when to my shock there are actually three different divisions of Orthodoxy (Chalcedonian Orthodox; Oriental Non-Chalcedonian Orthodox; Assyrian Orthodox Church of the East). Each of these communions considers one another to be heretics/schismatics, despite many of their concerns being reconcilable provided there were a universal magisterium that could be appealed to in order to solve disputes. Many of the disputes are caused by ethno-linguistic misunderstandings and are unfortunately not so tied in with a concern for zealous piety. Moreover, the Chalcedonian Orthodox are de jure out of communion with each other and I found that Greeks would rebaptise me, but that some Russians would never venture to commit such sacrilege as to rebaptise me (that is a colossal problem. How do I know if I have been baptised in this situation?) The post-schism theology of the EO is not consistent with pre-schism Eastern theology and there are reasons for this, but it goes to show that the EO are not invincible from innovation and heresy. There are books in length to be written on that problem alone. Ultimately, the Orthodox only universally hold to whichever Ecumenical Councils their particular communion recognises to be truly ecumenical, all other doctrinal questions which apparently “condemn Latin heresy” are no more than post-schism opinions and polemics and exactly the same as the previous ethno-linguistic problems I’ve mentioned earlier.
I was running from the Catholic Church because of its problems, and EO seemed to have all the answers and be so wonderful until I entered into that world. For me, it didn’t take me very long to realise that there are the exact same problems in both camps and that to evaluate which communion to enter based on liturgical abuses per capita or something like that was not healthy and academically dishonest. I would highly recommend that you attend an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy if it is available to you. Find the Church with a Tradition which interests you in EO, all EO Churches have a Catholic parallel with its own history. At any rate, the Traditional Latin Mass is also beautiful and these days that is my normal liturgy. There is very much more that I have to say, but suffice it to say you should consider reaching out to/read/listen to the following people: Charles Coulombe (Tumblar House, Theology on Tap on TH-cam) Vitalis Varaioun (On TH-cam The Russian Catholic), Timothy Flanders (The Meaning of Catholic, YT and website), Vladimir Soloviev (book: Russia and the Universal Church), Erick Ybarra (Reason and Theology on YT, ErickYbarra.com), Gideon Lazar (He has published some articles online under his own name), Linden Predy (The Badger Dad on YT).
Sorry. Long response, but I hope you are at least in the right direction.
JMJ
@@intersabellos2482
What an eloquently insightful comment! Thank you immensely for your time and your words. I am in an incredibly tight spot theologically at the moment. I myself have never been baptized into and Christian faith, and fell into atheism in my latter teenage years. I always maintained a sort of pseudo-traditional outlook on life, but until recently never really knew where to glean that traditional aspect from.
It was Orthodoxy (as well as the Shroud of Turin) which brought me out of atheism. And it was after studying its theology, history, and miracles that left me absolutely confident in its truth. It seemed no matter how greatly I fought, Orthodoxy kept calling me home. Upon discovering the unbroken Miracle of the Holy Fire, it absolutely shook me to my core. It is simply undeniable.
Yet, within the past week, I have read honestly (and what I feel like is thoroughly) the Catholic position. I see where the Orthodox in certain areas absolutely misrepresent topics such as Absolute Divine Simplicity, the Filioque, unleavened bread for the Eucharist, Papal Primacy, etc. yet even with this, my experience with Orthodoxy is far too strong to simply discard it outright.
It is for these reasons that I desperately need your prayers and for our Lord to pull me out of this psychosis I seem to have found myself in. I worry that I am one of those too easily “swayed by various doctrines” which our beloved St. Paul warned us about in his epistles.
I will definitely look into those resources you mentioned. Thank you again, and may Christ be with you and your family.
@@permanenceaesthetic6545 I'm curious how this turned out. What is your current position?
@@intersabellos2482 I appreciate this educated/well thought out reply, thank you
Great video 👍
I admire your video especially because of the depth of your inquiry.
"A church that hasn't compromised or changed." then chooses Rome. So much in Roman Catholicism has changed. Even in my own lifetime let alone since the 1st century.
No it hasn't. whereas the EOC kowtowed to the culture of death and allowed contraception
And you think Rome hasnt? Rome provides all kinds of unnatural options to thwart the function of the conjugal act.
You're a newbie, Brian. I was raised in the Romish church and have studied its history for decades. You have a lot of reading to do.
The eastern Orthodox people enjoyed some turkish and soviet knifes beheading them because they are not a church of union but rather a loosely "union" of national churches. The catholic church won the fight agaisnt islam even with the protestant backstabbing. The orthodoxy lost and Christ is not a looser nor a backstabber, so his church must the one blessed which promotes union and victory.
@@asaindomaveldedeus2966 it promotes "refugees welcome" nowadays soooo
Do you have to be Italian to be Roman Catholic? No. Do you have to be Greek, Russian, etc to be Orthodox? No.
So why don’t you apply your faulty reasoning to the RCC?
he is lying on purpose, our churches in Greece are OPEN to ANYONE.
@@wolfthequarrelsome504 You don't have to have ANY connection with any Orthodox and you can become Orthodox. Your parents can be the worst kind of satanists and sacrifice babies every day, yet you still can become Orthodox and become equal with everyone.
@Felipe Silva lt is different to feel misplaced on your own because of language issues rather than not being accepted by those churches themselves..because this is what is being implied by the man making this video and it is a big lie.
@Felipe Silva I get what you're saying, and this is the thing... if Portugal, France, England, Germany or what ever country were in the Orthodox sphere... they would have the liturgy in their OWN language.
You see, the Orthodox way is your own way, you have the right to worship God in your OWN language and not just in Latin. To really feel it, to really REALLY feel it deep down into your last molecule, it has to be your own, in your own tradition and language.
I really LOVE the way our liturgies are, since I love church music, I have the pleasure of hearing our liturgies in so many languages!! I super love it! Especially old Bulgarian liturgies in old Slavonic.
@@wolfthequarrelsome504 Nonsense. You don't have to have relatives to become papist, just bow down to Pope. And they are ALWAYS roman catholics, and we Orthodox are Catholics, because it comes from the greek word καθολικισμός meaning universal, congregational, actually on english there is no real traslation so it translates as catholic.
Thank you for this
Wow! Your spiritual search is so familiar, even though I have a totally different background!! I had almost no knowledge of the Orthodox Church until recently and I’ve asked myself the same sorts of questions. Articulate and intelligent video! 👍🙏.
"Only Rome has continued to enjoy safety and prosperity" well, when you send crusades to fight and siege Byzantine christians and help muslims to take Byzantium down (thus helping to the demize of your enemies) then yea i can see how "only Rome has continued to enjoy safety and prosperity"
I am frankly shocked he would even use this as a reason for choosing Catholicism. As if prosperity is a sign of being in the truth. That's ludicrous. Orthodox have been and continue to be brutally oppressed in parts of the world. The Orthodox have been treated as Christ himself was.
That's not exactly accurate, Rome and the papacy had nothing to do with the siege of Constantinople, that was done by individual groups and armies of crusaders. Also why would Rome ever want to help muslims? The whole argument that Rome wanted to destroy Byzantium is preposterous, if they wanted Byzantium destroyed the Pope would have simply ignored the Emperors call for help, Byzantium was already in decline and the muslims would have won anyway, also Catholics were already fighting muslims in Spain and Portugal, why would they ever want to help their mortal enemy? And Rome and The Byzantine empire were not truly enemies, not in a political sense at all
@@jajohnson7809 so have jews
@@mountainlover8167 It's not like Rome helped escape ante pavelic to south america and declare the man a "saint" for his roman catholic deeds, let me be clear.....not, NOT, his Christian deeds. Now, where would we get the idea from that Rome wouldn't support anybody's wish to destroy Constantinople? After all, they have a track record when it comes to good deeds....WINK, WINK, WINK. When you declare the head of your church Jesus on earth but then it turns out that he was a nazi sympathizer and used to ignore the child abuses in his organization (doc: deliver us from evil) then we can asume that the claims regarding support to conquer Constantinople are surely fase, right????
@@mitrovdan well considering he hasnt been declared a Saint I'd say you're point is a bit moot, and if you're going to bring that up why dont we bring up the Russian orthodox churches (lower case c for a reason) support of Russia's invasion of Crimea and Ukraine? How about the Russian patriarchs support of a Russian dictator and his accepted bribe of a golden watch? What about all the Ukrainian lives lost for the sake of nationalism that's rooted in a kingdom that existed over a thousand years ago? Let's not forget you Orthodoxers go after eachother more often than us.
Jesus's church is universal.
In complete agreement.
I am not religious, in the slightest, however Brian's arguments confuses me.
Why do you need to 'join' a church?
Why do you need to seek the church that Jesus started, when even the bible says he didn't, it was his apostles. From my understanding Jesus didn't even really believe he was creating a religion, let alone where one should be located.
Why isn't any church that teaches Jesus, and the bible good enough, I understand that there are some types of 'culty' churches and denominations, and some practices you may not want to follow, but if you have a need to attend a church, they are all churches, as long as you can understand the language.
Imagine the travesty of finding 'your' church, and having to learn a new language to participate. Oh hang on, you need to learn a language (all sorts of bespoke terminology) and follow new customs even if it is taught in your native tongue.
The reason the Abrahamic religions triumphed over pagan religions, is that they where not tied to place. I'm pretty sure the Jews started this revelation during the Babylonian exile, but at the moment I can't seem to confirm it, and geographical ties should not be how you define what you follow. Early Christians in Rome, prior to Constantine's conversion prayed in their homes.
So whilst he may, or may not make a good argument, it starts on shaky foundations, even when you believe in the religious aspects of his choices.
@@Youchubeswindon
Because Jesus stablished a church and he mentioned it on Mathew 16:18... that church is his body and evangelized the world throughout the centuries. One Holy Catholic and apostolic church. That same church put the Bible together. all others were stablished by men much later....
@@Youchubeswindon
Early Christians congregated at homes and caves to celebrate the sacrament of the Eucharist (because they were persecuted). They broke the bread daily....
It doesn't matter where you are from, a father, a bishop, even a simple believer will welcome you open-hearted. The reason orthodox churches hold their sermons in specific languages and not a common one like Latin is so it can be understood by the peoples of that country. That person turning you away was wrong, may God bless him back on the righteous path.
Exact opposite experience I had after going to a Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Church! I was walking out after mass, I didn’t speak the language but wanted to see it, and someone who saw I was a new person followed me out and tried to talk to me, and when I said I don’t speak Ukrainian he spoke English but he was so friendly! Everyone was so friendly and so excited to talk about their church and greet us, it was lovely
I watched this video a long time ago. Since then I documented about Orthodox Christianity (I'm an Orthodox by the way) and I can tell you that you've misunderstood Orthodox Christianity and it's history very badly.
I returned back home to Orthodoxy from going to the born agains (false Christians) and thank God back to Orthodoxy 🙏💒✝️ Here are the major differences between Orthodox and catholics and ofcourse protestants
th-cam.com/video/hZNtaFzIqJc/w-d-xo.html
And definitely you failed to actually LISTEN CAREFULLY TO HIS REASON WHY? but sadly, I bat cannot be any blinder...
I'm assuming with your extensive research you became aware that there are Ukrainian, Coptic, Ruthenian and other eastern churches that are in communion with Rome. Your vids are great. Keep up the good work 🙂.
Very educational. Thank you 🙏
Thank you so much for your videos. I have been learning about the Christian faith. Things that I've never really encountered before.
I am a former atheist who is also a convert. When I decided to go back to Christianity, I decided to focus on Church history and see who seemed to really have the most reasonable claim to be the original Church unchanged. I concluded there were four branches: Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Catholic.
Studying all the branches of orthodoxy, in other words, not JUST the Eastern Orthodox.
I concluded Rome made the most sense overall, especially now that Rome is back in full or partial communion with the other three main branches. But I have deep respect for all the other branches, and am so happy that mutual excommunications have been lifted and ancient issues like the Nestorian controversy have been resolved.
Dean Esmay not so reasonable, more biased unfortunately.
Only the Catholic Church has all four in one. Become catholic now!
Jennifer McDaniel I will not, I am sorry to say, I will stay with what I think is the true church.
Dean Esmay I, as an Oriental Orthodox have to disagree with the hope you presented. If you study doctrines like theosis, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Catholics agree that this is an essential foundation of our salvation. This has yet to be clear in the Assyrian Church. In fact, this was the main reason why Oriental Orthodox condemned Chalcedon. It wasn’t merely semantics. If you can’t guarantee there is one “unit of existence” out of the two nature of Christ, then there’s no real unity within Christ, which is the foundation of our unity to God in Christ, which in turn is the foundation of our theosis. I think there needs to be a serious re-examination of the historical doctrinal divergences. There are so many that has not been translated by Eastern writings, as usually history is written by the victor (victor being the Latin and Protestant west).
I do however concede one thing. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox are practically in all intents and purposes the same faith despite lack of communication, and both have the same objections against both Rome and Protestantism. You can’t really ignore that. I would recommend anyone who thinks the East has lost its ways and does not have the superficiality of victorious grandeur the West seems to have should read Laurent Cleenewerck’s “His Broken Body”. If you dare, this will shake the faith of Roman Catholicism at its core with really deep questions that no Roman Catholic should ignore if they want to be deep rooted in their Catholicism and their belief in the alleged infallible security of the Pope of Rome
Have you compared the liturgy and practices?
I’m a Dutch orthodox with no Easter background
Thank you for your insightful explanation.
The Orthodox Church in America has a church in Edmonton where liturgies are in English, and there are many different ethnicities represented in the parish .
Brian, you have stated so many things in your reasoning that is contradictory. One of the biggest fallacies in your thought process is the fact that you state that you did not want to become Orthodox because your ethic identity did not seem to fit into the identities of the parishes you entered, but then you attack the orthodox Church for preserving the ethnic identities of a people that were attacked and murdered by Catholics, Muslims, Communists and others because of their refusal to give up their faith and ethnicity. If you truly had the mindset that the church should transcend ethnicity, then you would have been blinded to those things yourself, but it appears that you may have been projecting what was already in your heart. Secondly, you stated that the Orthodox Patriarchates excommunicated the pope of Rome, but it was the pope of Rome who FIRST excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople simply because the Patriarch refused to accept a new and foreign idea into the Church, namely papal supremacy. When the tomb of the pope was delivered into the Hagia Sophia and laid on the alter by the bishop sent from Rome, one of our Orthodox bishops chased the Roman delegate for miles pleading with him to retract the excommunication and begging him to see the damage it would do to Christianity, and it was all to no avail, since the West had already decided that they were infallible! Thirdly, if you would have read the teachings of the holy fathers of the Church, and not simply used your fallen reasoning you would have seen that Christ's prayer about unity was answered immediately, since there has always been a unity in the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic ORTHODOX Church, and it has always existed. You should also remember that the Lord Jesus also taught about a falling away, and warned us to be aware of the wolves in sheeps clothing. Rome fell away from the true church, but its falling away did not impact the unity of the church, which is unified in Christ, and not in the pope. Please do yourself a big favor and start reading the early church fathers and all your fallen reasoning will be healed, corrected and illumined. St. Paul says that he would give up his very salvation for the sake of his fellow Hebrew people that had not yet received Jesus as the Messiah. Does that make him an ethnophile? Loving the ethnic identity that God made you is not a sin, but it is a sin if that ethnicity prevents you from joining His Holy Church!
Corinth Corinth Can you (or anyone) direct a new convert to the literature that defends your ideas here? I never knew there was so much history in the church.
Thank you corinth, very well said! !!
Agreed, I converted from RC to Orthodoxy 4 years ago to OCA Ukrainian/Russian Orthodox Church. Liturgy in all English. Did it take me out of my comfort zone to go there and speak with the Priest and consider Converting? U bet. I am now a server, Council member and Maintenance coordinator at my Parrish. I am not usually one to quote movie lines but "The Power of Christ Compels You!" I always urge people to Step out of their comfort zone and to come and see.
@@e.rutger6611 You can find this history in historian Warren Carroll's "The Building of Christendom. " www.amazon.com/Building-Christendom-324-1100-History-vol/dp/0931888247/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=history+of+Christendom&qid=1557200546&s=gateway&sr=8-3
Corinth Corinth Papal supremacy was never a novel idea. St. Augustine of Hippo wrote of Papal supremacy in the 4th century. Before that, St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote of it on his way to be martyred in Rome about 107 A.D. The Patriarch Michael was usurping papal power and was politically motivated because Constantinople was the seat of imperial power while Rome was just a backwater town in his time.
They basically didn't know why you were asking to participate while it's always open for everyone and that's why you gave up on orthodoxy because you didn't know whether or not to go in?
Good videos helping me with my understanding of faith
I love this videos, you made the right choice!
The moment in Ukrainian church was hilarious. It made me laugh. I think I can imagine the scene. But in one segment of the video you were wrong. The Orthodox bishops who came from the council were under the pressure by Orthodox people and clergy, yes. But there was another part. They were under the pressure to sign the unity before that. We have testimonies from their letters. St. Mark of Ephesus is typical example. And he is not the only one.
Sometimes I think that both Catholics and Orthodox are cultural developments. There was a geographical distance between the West and the East. And in the West, Rome was the only big Christian center, while in the East, there were several. And these facts gave birth to the westerners love for the Pope and the easterners love for councils and stuff like that. Sometimes I think that if there were another big Christian community and patriarch in West, maybe things might have been different: the Bishop of Rome far less powerful and no schism. But what do I know :))
Yeah, I have had similar thoughts about this. Prior to the miaphysite schisms of the Eastern church, each patriarchate had its own liturgies as well. The reforms made by St Gregory the Great were only applied to Western Christianity, not Eastern, because there is a distinction between local synods of bishops and ecumenical councils. Even in the council of Trent, the new Tridentine mass was only to replace all forms of the mass that were younger than 200 years old. It was meant to be the universal (catholic) mass, but was on equal footing as the old liturgies. All the bishops of the West saw the authority of the Pope in Rome because that was the only seat of authority in the West, whereas the other patriarchates had been there since the dawn of Christianity, and mentioned at the council of Nicaea. The jurisdictions of the patriarchs of the East also changed a lot of times, the see of Antioch lost some northern bishophorics to Constantinople and some southern to the see of Jerusalem in the 5th and 6th centuries. To the West, their perspective is all through how they become ordained bishops by the pope, then cardinals, then elect the next one, but none of the bishops outside of that jurisdiction have that influence. The bishops of the see of Antioch elect the Antiochian patriarch, the bishops of the see of Alexandria elect the Alexandrian pope and so forth.
Also ruling from the pope in Rome is very separated from the other sees. It had only the barbarian threats of the north in mind when defining new tradition, which wasn't always compatible with the East. The same issue sprung up in the 16th century when Sweden broke off from the Roman Catholic Church because it refused to understand the political climate of the former Kalmar Union. The traditions of the West always differed from the other sees, such as the use of leavened or unleavened bread, and the use of Latin as opposed to Greek or Syriac, and with the increasing claims of authority and infallibility of the pope, tensions were bound to grow.
Soooo.. we just gonna pretend here, that 1204 never happened?
Thank You for Your sincere explanation, though!
What is that gorgeous chant in the background at the beginning of your video? I LOVE Gregorian., Ambrosian, Cistercian etc.
*Rome sacks Constantinople, cripples its defenses, and then refuses to send support when the Ottomans invade shortly after*
"Welp, guess it's providence that Constantinople fell and Rome didn't!"
Constantinople would have fallen long before if the West hadn't sent aid through each successive crusade, sacrificing lives and wealth. The case of the sacking of Constantinople had as much to do with internal politics and dysfunction as it did with mistakes on the part of crusaders. If you're interested in the actual history, give this a watch: th-cam.com/video/0r376MkZwLI/w-d-xo.html
You have amazing videos and awesome hair. 😂
Out of all the videos about Catholicism I fall upon this one while living in Edmonton myself! I was baptized in 2015 at a Protestant church but have been presented with Catholicism and the Orthodox church both through people and the internet. It's confusing and a little nerve wrecking (especially with some Protestant friends being opposed...). I pray God will help lead me in this.
Yes, there's a lot to learn. Check out my videos about why I converted to Catholicism (two parts). The second part is more about the theological reasons I chose RC over Protestantism. th-cam.com/video/HkqPjxp2Ltw/w-d-xo.html
Hi can you give us an update?