THE REASON NA STRUGGLES | IWD
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ย. 2022
- Here we go again.
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I like videos like these because they showcase how passionate Dom is about the game
Yeah, genuinely think this passion is extremely rare among pros in current NA League
Yep. I root for LCK, but Iwilltancent is based. Respect.
@@Monotheist137 🤨
I think its the reason we are here as his fans and one of the reasons the LPL blew up so much this season. Also cant not talk about LS with that too but dom i feel like influenced everyone else without meaning to
Yeah he has been my favorite content creator for a long time now
Dom cares so much about League. Like you can HEAR it in his voice at 5:30 when he's just talking about improvement. It's clear that he's literally experienced this and it still brings up the same exciting emotions now as it did when he was going through it himself.
sometimes wish dom would be younger to see him play competitively. love how passionate he is when he was a player and even now as a streamer
@@diediedie1992 technically Dom could rejoin LCS like Doublelift and Bjerg, but he's explained why he wouldn't.
Maybe if a really good opportunity and offer arises 🤷🏻♀️
What dom said at the beginning really resonated with me. When I was in high school, I did math competitions. I met an international math olympiad gold medalist, and every second he was talking about some difficult problem. During the flight, during dinner, etc. He was thinking about math almost every waking hour-- that's why he was one of the best in the world.
biggest problem with na is they dont even know how many genders there are and what a woman is.
its not just worth ethic. its a cultural problem.
30:05 "thats nothing bro" my entire 5 member family lives in about that much space, im pretty sure thats more than enough for 2 people
Bro 1100 square feet is more than enough for a human to survive I totally agree. If they are paying for his rent then that 1100 is coo wtf
I'm legit mind blown by this sequence of the vid ngl
Yeah, my wife and I live in a 600 but tbf, we hate it and want to move.
most americans live in houses thats probably why he thinks its not that much plus if you are worth a couple million dollars you probably want a bit more space.
"Thats nothing" when the cost is 4-5k a month >5 years ago lol. thats the living space for like 3k/month kinda rent
I love watching these longer form style videos from you where you just talk about things on your mind, Some of my favourite videos from you are the GOAT debate and the LPLvsLCK video, I hope you do more of these!
That opening talk is so spot on about teams and being competitive in general. It’s all about the team and should only ever be about the team and the teams success and working together to improve the teams end outcome
I think the criticism on betterment seems to be spot on. This is all speculation but if you look at g2 when it was dominating in Europe and the mentality that the players had, they didn’t seem to be bothered by having a bad game. It’s a tough mental fight when you’re losing. But western teams seem to implode right away.
culture gap
I dont even think western teams implode more than eastern ones per say.I just feel like the west is more complacent whereas the east is disciplined
@@DJ1NS4N1TY Total culture gap. There's a sense of entitlement with NA kids (not just players but our kids as a culture) that when things don't go their way it's the end of the world because they are (relatively) used to having things in their life go their way.
The reason I watch dom is cause he is so willing to be passionate and still able to be upfront and honest about our region.
Na knows that if they try hard for 11 months they might still lose. They don’t wanna risk the commitment to improvement when there isn’t a guarantee of success. We are allowed to be mediocre cause we still get paid. The mediocrity is the norm.
Not anymore. Salaries have been tanked.
Now let's see what they do
This is such an abused child take. Competitive people don't give up just because they're not guaranteed success. They try harder. Your region just isn't competitive.
Right? Vulcan's big baby mald on Twitter says it all. They want to stretch things out for as long as possible just for that sweet paycheck. They made this job a 9 to 5 rather than how most professional athletes' contracts actually work.
As long as they don't get fired, who gives a shit about winning any international event.
@@christophervillanueva9257 and then you get all the retards on social media talking about "work life balance" and "it's not healthy to practice more than 8 hours a day" like no shit being a professional athlete is not healthy
@@ObiWanShinobi917 the ppl that have this mindset already made enough to retire so they dont care about pay cut.
99% of the shit you hear about why the LCS can't perform internationally is genuinely just excuses. At the end of the day, other regions want it more, other regions put in more work.
I do not believe for a second that if a group of 5 dudes with Kobe Bryant work ethics were put together, who just sat down and grinded the game for 12 hours a day, theorycrafted for 4 hours a day, and then slept and got back up the next day to do it all over again, you wouldn't end up with AT LEAST a team that can make Semis. I refuse to believe that.
It's the American dream yo! They all came to play here just to save up for early retirement, not actually win. Not just imports but even domestic players too 😆
NA LCS is the biggest scam in eSports history. The only entertainment value they provide and probably the actual reason people still tune in is because of drama and alleged "abuses" committed by man children towards other man children lmao
Bruh good luck finding 5 americans with his level of work ethic. But yes, if you could find that then such a team would stomp LCS and probably also make it quite far internationally.
@@MacDaniboi There is lots of American/Canadians that have that mind set. Unfortunate the import culture hampers the legitimacy of those people in North America. TSM tried a rookie for maybe one split, then casted him aside for a import. Like Dom said, players don’t stay on teams for longer than a split now, so there’s no incentive to actually work hard since you know you’ll get replaced anyways. Back when we had teams that were filled with recognizable players, that were on the same team for years have outperformed the players that only play for a split internationally. And I don’t mean just get out of groups, they AT LEAST took some games off of the Eastern teams.
I knew there was always a reason why I love Dom and his content. We have the same favorite NFL teams. Ravens and Seahawks, my man!
is he not a dolphins fan also?
I think he just likes the Seahawks apparel but is a dolphins fan foremost
Nah he rows for UC Davis and UC Davis ONLY 😂😂
So NA players were complaining they were getting amateurs vs pros, but they were the pro on their team and “summit” was the one for the opp. So basically you couldn’t carry but summit/ other pros could? Sounds like skill diff
I wish Dom can be a coach or management crew.The league must be in better shape on how passionate he is
great video dom i like your anecdotes/insights
Okay if this is the approach of NA/EU Orgs in general on improvement as a team then everything makes sense. It feels like they never googled the definition of "Developing" or "Improvement". Also it seems to be a work culture based on immediate good results and overall laziness.
Thanks Dom for the vid love to see your passion for competitive league.
There is no fire under these players' asses. In any other mainstream sport, if a player is underperforming they will not get their contract renewed. They will be replaced by premier talent from college teams who have more ambition and drive. So pros have to really fight for their spot on their rosters. In NA they don't have that drive after that initial success of getting to LCS. They know they can create a viewerbase and coast even if they get booted. Not like they will, when the region itself doesn't care about talent and very few players have that legitimate hunger to succeed. Champions want that win like they'll die if they don't get it. THAT is why Keria was crying - it shows just how fucking dedicated he was in his desire to win. He gave it everything and it wasn't enough. Ultimately, what do NA players care? They'll still get signed fat checks.
A 45 minute dominate banger? Love to see it
I enjoy hearing different perspectives, and despite Dom clearly feeling strongly about this topic, he remains realistic in separating anecdotes from hard truths, both for himself and the trio the thread is about.
1) Ping diff
2) LCS Paycheck Leeches
3) Can't criticize without getting canceled
4) Eastern player base is 3x as much
Coaches can't even shout or get angry at all lest they get fired for "abuse"
Been thinking about this. If practice environment sucks, why not try more stage games in the LCS? Like double or triple.
Here's my reasons:
There's no substitute for stage games
Teams waste whole day on 1 stage game
Gives more room for experimenting
Correlation of worlds results declining as LCS games played stays same/decreases while other regions increase their numbers of games.
whenever someone suggest bo3 for NA it just says they werent around in 2017
@@DJ1NS4N1TY I was. What was so wrong about it?
Yeah moving LCS to BO3 would be a net positive for the region, but riot is afraid to do it because it's hard enough to get people to watch shit teams play once imagine if people had to watch them play 3 games in a row
@@tztech2382 shit teams, bloated schedule, and the teams that made it did jack
@@DJ1NS4N1TY there's ways to solve that. It's not popular, but have match ups at the same time. Like IMTvDIG play at the same time as EGvC9.
NA struggled because speculative investors made the playerbase believe they were something they're not. Just like the MLS and WNSL. Getting paid to put out a sub-par product creates a mentality like the one they have now.
You can tell Dom has played real sports because in real sports because things like focusing year round and view scrim as "time" rather than "number of games" are the baseline mindset even at scholastic levels
It feels like coaches in LCS are more like managers than coaches. Every actual sport relies on a coach who has a deep understanding of the game, even if they weren’t the best of players in their prime. But yeah LCS coaches seem to be more of a corporate manager than an actual coach. I’m just surprised none of these teams have taken the risk of using that type of structure
Ls got fired trying to introduce that structure
Great points and love your passion for League! (Applause)
God I really just want Dom to coach a team already
Love this, thanks dom!
“Thats crazy that a GM tells a team what to play” did he forget about Reginald?😂😂
In the case of Reginald, at least he was a former-player. Crazy still, just not as crazy. Also, Regi was not GM, he was CEO/owner lmao.
@@muyangcheng3874 since when was he a gm? Lmao
"102 square meters is nothing" eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehmmmmmm
I lived in a 1300 square foot apartment in Canoga Park, a step down from Santa Monica, for 3300 a month and it was not a nice neighborhood. Even trash areas in LA are expensive.
Good summary and discussion, Dom.
This is your best video Dom.
thank you for the passion and content!
I think Dom's analogy is pretty good, of people peaking, plateau-ing, reminds me of my hero academia, someone else might be improving rapidly might be because they're going level 1-50, you're probably frustrated because going from level 50 to 51 is a different journey. Makes me think of blue lock too, NA needs to turn the 0 into a 1, and brush up on brushing up on their strats. Dom went back in time @4:00, I can see him doing that in the early seasons of league.
45 min surprised its not 45 hours
Ty for the content mr Rivera
Bro Dom, I agree with almost everything in this video except your rent argument. I pay just under $2k for a 450sq ft apartment in Ohio. 4.5k for 1100 is a steal
Tbf, he's talking about paying that much for an 1100 sqft apartment in like 2015/2016 when he was in LA, like he said, that rent now is probably like ~6k.
that's like ages ago buddy. that rent might have double by now.
I think the biggest thing for me is the '5 games scrim block' vs '5 hour scrim block'. I don't get why teams would put a hard cap on the amount of games they should play, and just stick with that regardless of how the games play out. Of course there's the issue of people getting emotional and frustrated if they feel things are going poorly etc, but I think that should be a case by case basis, and not the norm of only doing a set amount of games to try and prevent that.
How can I phrase this, I guess it would be, these teams don't feel like teams. You see the guys on stream and it doesn't look like teammates it looks like co-workers. It's not about "ok how can these 5 player's strength's make my team better" its "ok guys you're all really good just don't mess up and you'll win."
Lol NA, we're like that meme of the dude in 3rd place on the podium spraying champagne cuz we always lose but get paid 2x as much.
teams should be hiring Dom as a Consultant with his background and knowledge man, they would go a long way. if I have the money, I will ask him to create a winning team for me
This video is incredible
10:57 Meslo catching strays 😭
I love your 42069th video on how NA is bad dom, much love.
LMFAO that dennis rodman analogy was a banger. "doing drugs and banging hookers all the time during the regular season is clearly the optimal way to be better at the game"
NA just lack a sense of “professional” inside their region. LPL/LCK used to be the most “professionalized” region, from law to clubs, everyone is so efficient towards their goal. This year we saw LPL slacking off on their training, managing and analyzing, LPL suffered hard because of being not “pro” enough.
NA has some good players, some how they just don’t want to perform good.
All of these issues seem to just come from the fact that NA doesn't have a t2 scene. (I mean honestly they don't even really have all of a t1 scene because while the top half of the league isn't great, the bottom half isn't even worth inviting to come play in LCS a lot of the time)
Practice squads also solve the issue of players not listening to coaches. Mid refuses to practice he is instantly replaced.
If this really is the shit that's going on in NA scrims and with their general attitude towards actually getting better then I don't know how anyone can support this region outside of blind patriotism. They're professionals only so far as they get paid to do it and to call them "competitve" is laughable
the annual NA fix video
Dom have you ever thought of running a team I know its far out there but Im sure a lot of the top players would join you with your vision. Investors wouldn't be insanely difficult
RIOT would never allow someone that gives constructive criticism and isn't afraid to speak his mind to be part of the inner workings of their leagues. Even if you don't factor that in, it's not as easy to create a team out of thin air as you think.
Mr beast team coach?
@@agronnak I agree. It’s not easy but not impossible. I don’t think riot would turn away 10million just because Dom is in the team, but who knows. It all depends on the financial situation of other teams
@@reitzik one thing RIOT loves more than money is control. They want to control every aspect of their products. They want to control all the narratives. They even broke up one of the best casting duos in Valorant cuz they were getting too much influence with the audience in their eyes. Let alone all the shenanigans when League tournaments used to be held by organizers like ESL and Dreamhack.
@@agronnak You seem to have more knowledge on this topic than I do.. so you think it’s that far away from someone like dom being able to step into the space?
We making this type of vid every year like it will change NA’s performance lol
The grinding for a year reminds me of the documentary of 2019 G2 after they lost in the finals Perkz said something along the lines of if feels good that's it's over so he can be human again. They were grinding every day for 11 months or so.
Calculated the compound interest of getting 1% better each day for a year, if your start at 100% (100 points) of your current skill. You would end up at a bit under 3700 points or 3700% of your initial skill after a year...
102sqm is massive lol most worker's apartments in cities are 45-70sqm
NA will continue to be gapped due to computation diff:
Korea/China play 2-3X stages games
Korea/China has larger player bases
EU also has a larger more competitive player bases/semi-pro leagues. *Still historically EU is gapped by China/Korea. Peak G2 (the best western team) get blasted in world finals or don't make finals).
You cannot have both a small player based AND 1/2 to 1/3 the stages games, let alone the bad scrims, lack of actually playing the game. To put it in other words the computation gaps means that for every 1 year of LCS other Korea and China put in 2-3 additional years worth of games (only counting stage games). PLUS the better scriming, solo que, and deeper runs in MSI or worlds.
It's why NA cannot pay it's way out with imports either, they will just degrade in quality too fast in their system. Like a top korean in NA is now playing worse solo que and 1/2 or 1/3 stage games (which are lower quality); and get less global comp experience.
your point about committing to being the best team possible has merit but if players are going to commit orgs will have to commit too regardless of player performance otherwise people will just play for job security
0:15 In todays words we would probably say "NA goes to worlds and does an Amber Heard."
The players aren't hungry. They eating well regardless of their performance.
I think dom hit the nail on the head
Sounds very similar to what Revenge's said he experienced in the academy system on the crackdown.
Edit: Also whatever happened to Bjergsen being on the first-team mid for LCS?
So the 3 guests were asked who they would each choose for their personal First-Team. They probably chose Jensen because he's had more success internationally.
3:19 Ah reasonable take up to this point, Dom; however, there's no way LCS Pros shower!
GG had Licorice, River & Stixxay
IMT had Xerxe, PoE and WildTurtle
DIG just signed Armut, Santorin, Jensen and Ignar
4K a month for that apartment when you played? Now it’s probably 10-12K a month without a doubt
Yessssssss!
Nooooooooooo!
I gueessssss???
Yee my favorite crackhead with a great video Nice work D
The school comment about it being a chore is a great point. I know they play league all the time but when I was playing sports we’d practice 5 times a week after school for 2+ hours and sometimes I would have 2 sports going on at a time. This meant I wouldn’t get home from school+practice till 8 or 9 at night but I loved doing my sports and still looked forward to practice. I know it is their job but I have heard Dom said this point before but we need people who love the game. That’s the culture change even if it means taking more unproven people.
Of course it’s okay to view being in LCS as a job but that doesn’t mean the teams shouldn’t seek out players who reach the absolute climax of passion for the game. (All pros of course love the game but there are levels)
Dom calling out Meslo lol
Great video thank you!
CloudTemplar is my first team LCK jungler he's just being too humble
Very insightful video
Why is Dom wearing Seahawks garb ?
"Dedication to your craft" - something almost all NA pro's have no clue what it really means
A coach in a professional sports isn't there to teach you how to play the game. You're supposed to know how to play the fucking game when you're a PROFESSIONAL in the sport. The coach is there to keep everyone organized and keep everyone focused on the same goal. To work through issues. It's not to teach you how the game works.
I get sub 20 ping and I'm still utter dogshit at the game. That being said, if you're all on level playing fields and you get shit on. I don't think ping was the difference. Sure, you can use that in soloQ when you have huge spikes and teleporting around but when you're at a tourney and everyone is playing on the same ping. Why are you getting fisted?
I agree with what you said, it's an attention span thing with domestic talent and at this point a hard-wired mindset that "they are better than us". When an import comes in, they may give you what they did for a few weeks but when they see what their teammates are giving, they relax and take a few steps back. I believe the last time I have seen, not just an LCS team but a Western team all buy in was 2019 G2, they all bought in and had a massive amount of fun while doing it.
I made the mistake of getting my hopes up with the LS appointment to C9 this year. With their reason for dismissal being even more telling of their aspirations. As a region the teams only care about making it to MSI or Worlds and winning their region. Doing "what worked for us in the past to get us here", they are afraid of switching it up to gain a potential advantage. Players would rather play comfort picks and enjoy their individual experience in a loss than doing something outside their comfort zone for an easier chance at winning. Truth be told, even if they lost every game. Which they were 3-1 btw, it was entertaining and felt fresh like there was some semblance of hope for something more.
wtf 100 square meters :D is like huge :D i never had an apartment above 90 m2 even with 2 adults and a kid. That is just small for american standards :D currently i live in 70 m2, me and my kid, and its still quite big O:
Same thoughts. 100 Square meters is a huge apartament.
Was looking for this comment lol Its funny to see / hear about American standards vs rest of the world. For Argentina's standards, 100 square meters and above is considered huge for an apartment. I currently live in a 65 square meter apartement with my wife and kid and feel I could live in a smaller apartment and be fine too.
NA sucks at most esports. I think it is due to the general mentality and security in NA. You have to make money in NA to feel secure and when you have money you want and need more. Now looking at the few esports where NA succedes it is mostly solo player sports. Team sports are an enviorment where it doesn't help to be self focused and the Amarican system and lack of security makes it hard for upcommers to focus on the team.
Now Canada is not acounted for as much but since all teams are in USA I think US mentality prevail
Great video. For the algorithm.
I played with my friend on EUW from NA. 110 ping constant. I've gotten used to it. Riot needs to let you change region from the client. I had to rebuy all the champs and skins again. I know I'm dumb.
Just from the first point and the whole "you gotta be able to sacrifice your personal goals " mindset I can safely say this is bullshit. Not even gonna bother with the rest this is a toxic mindset towards any kind of success
Dom brings up many good points here, but i just can’t get behind the idea of league players showering
Will you post the DRX documentary?
They should go for The developing LPL and LCK player if they are gonna sign in Players from Korea or China, not the retired ones
c9 tried that with berserker, doesnt matter how good the developing korean/chinese players are if the rest of the team doesnt have the same drive, or...well. skill. xD
Dom, about the player development lies, whats your opinion on G2 ditching Flakked and Targamas after only 1 year even when they were promising? And do you think they'll do the same to Yike if they don't do well?
Targamas was promising, I feel like flakked was out of his depth... Like he is definitely LEC level, but compared to hans sama he is very very lacking... He is less experienced and arguably less talented also
Used to think you were great Mr.Dominate but what you showed us in this video is inexcusable. A SEAHAWKS JERSEY ARE YOU FR ?
Never knew shrek was a Seahawks fan
To me, the major reason/issue that NA LCS has really, is that we overpay for talent. Like, NA is known for being a pretty bad region, and absolutely none of the out of region talent we bring is coming here because they actually give a shit about this region; They're coming because we gave them like 50 million dollars to. This leads into another one of our major issues -- no in region talent because we literally do no put any time, or focus at all into cultivating in region talent. NA is legit one of the only regions in the entire world where every single team is maxed out on imports. Most other regions are like, maybe you have a few teams that have like, 1 import. Here in NA we think 3 imports isn't enough and were trying to fight the import rule.
All in all, I think this topic needs to quit coming up. NA LCS needs, more then anything, to have its status as a major region revoked before anything happens. Because so long as we are allowed to continue performing like clowns in our region, and in any international competitions while *always* have a spot for our jokes guaranteed at every major event, we will simply continue to put in bare minimum effort to fix any of our issues because the Teams and their Managers have shown, at least to me, that they really don't give a fuck. They just want to buy a KR or EU team, place them in NA, and then hope they do anything, rather then actually try to lift NA up as a region. Until that happens, until NA is actually punished for putting 0 effort in time in, and time out, nothing is ever going to get fixed.
It really is down to, either NA Teams start actually *trying* to do anything other then pay 50 million or 70 million or however much money they can to buy "the best" from other regions, or we straight up do not deserve a spot at any events.
NA is guaranteed status as a major region. Merely for the fact that we were the ones who invented League of Legends. It's the same reason all the Ivy League schools play in D1A collegiate athletics.
I don't quite agree with Dom's 11 months thing. I think you need that 11 months for prep, and the season after would be the one where it would all potentially pay off.
102 m^2 apartment is a luxury in europe xD
Na care only about winning, Ego, fame and money.. not about improvement, drive and willingness to sacrifice.
Go off king
Start a fine system within the team like the nfl, powerful motivator
Damn I mean imagine having to work 8 hours a day to earn hundreds of thousands of dollars. That’s just so unfair to these Lcs players to expect that out of them.
Can I just say that this video makes me so sad. Like I would be there are at least 50 players in NA most likely a lot more who would give everything to have a chance at going pro and devote all their time to improving as a team, but the actual players don’t devote enough time. Like what. I love this video but it makes me sad for the state of NA pro play.
Should just put incentives like a half a million if thr team gets out of groups xD
Let's use our money region
5 players fully commit a full year you say? Vulcan literally give up on preseason,
Personally, I don't see why people get so surprised about NA losing.
Not because "lul NA bad" but it's about how much the people care, the kid in America grinding 12 hours a day isn't dreaming of the World Championship, he's dreaming about being the next Tyler1.
For example why does the USA suck at Soccer? America has amazing multimillion dollar sport programs that completely eclipse what most of the world has to offer and a larger population then the last 3 World Cup winning countries combined. Yet they suck because the World Cup means more than the world itself to some kid in Brazil, while to most American's it only ever reaches the point of "that would be pretty cool".
They don't play champions que so basically its flooded with amateur players if they all constantly played they would more likely get eachother in que the main league pros cause their own cycle they don't play then complain when they finally come back in after a week of not playing then you enter and suprised its flooded with amateur players.
yeah. ping does not makes any sense as an argument anymore....
i play on 23ms and I'm still bronze.
seahawks fan?? geno! geno! geno!
I've been watching since Season 1 and the way NA looks now is just so disappointing. We have never been anything special when it comes to international tourneys but you could at least tell the players were more passionate back in the day. They just there for paychecks now. Tell the players they have to win to get money like back in the day and I'm sure some shit would change.
No mind games in league of legends unless you're a shaco main then you mind fuck your way to victory
Seahawks? Seahawks really... I mean I'm an indoctrinated bears fan but seahawks?