I knew there was someone missing from the list of players higher all time than KD. My bad Timmy lol Go to sleeper.com or download the app, and use promo code Rusty and for a limited time you'll get up to a $500 match on your first deposit. Terms and conditions apply. See Sleeper’s Terms of Use for details. Currently operational in over 25 states. Check out Sleeper today!
This is why KD career is so fascinating. It’s like he sold his souls for the warriors tenure. At age 27 he had an MVP, 4 scoring titles, multiple all nba and all stars, and was genuinely one of the most beloved players. Then he joined GSW and after that it just feels like his resume stagnated outside of the 2 rings, not to mention the legacy hit that he took
Here's the thing that's extra hilarious. Despite him thinking that Warriors time hurts his argument, it's literally the only reason he's even considered top 20. Had he just stayed there, rattled off two more rings and FMVPs he might actually have an argument.
The fact that KD has titles isn’t as impressive with him going to Golden State and such. But to be fair, he played pretty darn well in the finals (35 points on nearly 70% true shooting in 2017 is good I’d say). Out of curiosity though, If he hypothetically had his entire career resume for one team, where would he rank for you? And where does he rank as is for you?
@@kyletucker3811yep, him leaving and the warriors winning without him absolutely crushes any possibility of him being top 10 IMO. Unless he somehow won a couple more titles before retiring, then maybe I could see an argument but I doubt that’ll happen and even if it does it’s him just hopping by from super team to super team. Maybe if he went back to OKC before this year that could have done a lot but now that they are significantly better even that wouldn’t be enough, at least IMO
Olajuwon has a great story. Barely knew the game in Nigeria; came over to Houston and worked his ass off in a local gym with Moses Malone, then helped turn UofH into the most exciting college team ever, went through the Twin Towers experiment, gave the '86 Celtics everything they could handle, perfected the aesthetically beautiful dream shake, made himself into an absolute beast on both ends of the court, single-handedly brought Houston its first two major sports championships, all while insisting on observing Ramadan requirements. Only player ever to be season MVP, Finals MVP and Defensive POY in the same year. Retired top 10 all-time in steals with no other center in the top 50. More than 500 career blocks ahead of second place (Mutombo). Indisputably Number 1 on Houston's Mount Rushmore of sports. He didn't need to sell sneakers or be in cheesy movies or throw down huge bets. Such an icon because he's a reflection of what Houston prides itself on - an immigrant helping to shape the culture of a city. Olajuwon was chosen ahead of Jordan in the draft and nobody here in Houston regrets it.
That's why Olajuwon is a top 10 player in my book (current list including Lebron because I know where he places - 2nd - but not including Curry because I'm sure he'll end up top 10 but not sure where yet).
One weird thing about the 2017 and 2018 rings is that while its value is lessened for Durant no one really takes it away from the other Warriors. They proved they could win without Durant and their narratives all held. Curry remained the best player on the team, Thompson was still the 3 and D splash brother side kick, Green was the best flex defender in the sport, and Kerr was still a great coach. They didn’t need Durant but he needed them. At least that’s how it feels.
@@nimatalebi1912they didn’t need KD. They were literally one win away from beating them. KD was just the guarantee that he’ll win. Also it didn’t really lessen it for the other Warriors because they won before and after him. They’re the ones who cultivated the culture that KD went with.
I wish KD understood that our criticisms of his decisions have always been rooted in disappointment. You can't be disappointed in someone unless you already believe in what they are capable of achieving
@@legenddaryl537KD is worse in my opinion. Bron CREATED a superteam with wade and bosch, he had a role in forming it. KD JOINED a superteam, a team that didn’t even need him to win.
@@UnacceptedBySocietyArtistthe warriors before he joined was a great team that had insane chemistry. they definitely weren’t a “superteam” in the traditional sense. that’s when u join stars together artificially, for the sole purpose of winning a ring. obviously all context considered, kd’s move was weaker, but they both joined allstars to FORM a superteam to win "easy" rings. which i disagree, every ring is earned. its not like kd or bron automatically won the championship just cuz their team's were insane.
@@UnacceptedBySocietyArtist GSW wasnt a superteam.. they just have a great system which they started thats why the league didnt have any counter to it.. can you really call GSW superteam when green and klay are both glorified role players?? compare that to wade and bosh who were bonafide superstars?? talentwise that miami team and cavs team still were the more talented team.. KD just tipped the scale so much it looked imbalanced..
@@legenddaryl537They literally had the best regular season record all time & the only unanimous MVP in history, if that doesn't qualify a team as a super team idk what does
@@jonathansykes4986 All 11 of these guys are def higher than KD imo: MJ LeBron Kareem Wilt Steph Duncan Kobe Shaq Magic Bill Russell Hakeem There are more arguably, but those ones are pretty definitive to me. So I pretty much agree with you.
@@luizhenriqueweiller2304And didn't run to a team that has won without him twice almost 3 times without him. The same team that kicked his ass when he as up 3 games with 3 MVP calibur players on his team and deep bench. He hasn't done anything in the playoffs without Curry there to truly lead his team. GS was never has never been KD's team either. KD hasn't done anything when he is "the guy." He just runs. A coward. That's why he'll never be the GOAT. Can't be a coward and be a GOAT.
Regarding story, Steph literally changed how the entire game is played. Before Steph, taking an early shot clock three off the dribble would get you benched. Now it's standard practice. The whole damn sport copied his playstyle. You can't get any more impactful than that.
You kind of touched on this when you mentioned the importance of a player's "story" but there is a reason it is the Greatest of all Time (GOAT) and not the Best of all Time (BOAT). Part of Greatness is being legendary, larger than life, awe inspiring, captivating. People ignore that too much in these convos
Lol ... this is sports, not a semantics lecture. It's just sweaty men running up and down chasing balls and each other. It's genuinely not that profound. I don't think we need a linguistics professor contributing to this discussion coz I think there's areas in life where you grasp of linguistics is more useful.
Exactly - so if I’m watching a human being, and I am seeing things that I can see in plenty of other people day after day as I go through life, what exactly is so “great“ about that? When I look at MJ or KB, the dedication they had, the leadership they displayed (no matter if I agreed with the tactics), and the sheer force of will and determination they showed day after day as they drove their bodies to exhaustion…. How they continually impressed with how they handled themselves, and their genuine displays of intellect and humility. These things simply ARE NOT COMMON. When I look at LeBron, KD, or a lot of these modern day stars, I see no more than physically gifted versions of the exact same humans I see day in and day out; the same narcissistic douche bags that have next to no self-awareness whatsoever, and have all the humility of Donald Trump. Again, what the effing F is so great about any of that?
Me too! I would love to see one for Wilt and Bird. We don’t knock Lebron for losing to a juggernaut Warriors, but we knock Wilt for losing to an even bigger juggernaut (in terms of hall of famers) in the Celtics. People say his offensive stats dropped in the playoffs, but don’t take into account how centers like him were often asked to change their game in the playoffs. Bird is probably the most underrated passer of all time, scored from everywhere, and is arguably the most clutch player ever, who also had to go up against on of the greatest teams in the 80s Lakers. Since people do argue Bird and Wilt for being the GOAT, I wanna see that argument.
@@lukekiefer5964What u smoking? LeBron gets knocked for everything. He gets killed for losing the '07 finals instead of praised for carrying that team there at 22 y/o w/no help & a weak coach. Killed for losing to GS after Love/Kyrie injuries. Same for losing to GS after Kyrie left & KD joined. The title in the bubble? Worthless! In-season tourney? Laughable! If anyone else won those they'd be praised for it. Now you're claiming the Russell, White, Cousy, Havlicek, Celts was superior to the Steph, Klay, Draymond, Iguodala, Durant, Livingston Warriors. That's comical. Not only would GS destroy them ( w/o KD) but LeBron's 07 Cavs team would kill them too.
This is the correct take. And I’ll add to it with a hot take of my own; Leaving GSW did more damage to KD’s legacy than joining GSW. If Durant stays in Golden State, they win a few more rings and become one of the greatest dynasties in history, he would be looked at a lot more preferably than he is now. He bet that he would win with Kyrie in Brooklyn, and he bet wrong. I was a huge KD fan until he left GSW. Winning a few rings and leaving was not a good look to me.
I disagree slightly. Joining GS hurt his legacy but not as much as people were saying it did. Leaving is what really hurt his legacy because if he would've stayed he would've won more and looked at more favorably as time goes on. However, by leaving GS and failing to win elsewhere he basically legitimized the criticism that he can't win without Curry. It also doesn't help thay Curry has won without him. By the way it's looking in Phoenix he'll probably never win another ring. The best thing KD could've done is either stay in GS or never join them in the first place.
Exactly this. Going to Brooklyn just proved how much KD needed Steph and company and the Dubs turning around and winning another one without him reinforced it.
Dear Rusty, I’m a much older NBA fan than you. I have been watching basketball since long before you were born. But your insight consistently amazes me. You are wise far beyond your years, and I am once again awestruck by how thoughtful and articulate you are. I watch a lot of NBA TH-camrs, and while they all know their basketball, none of them delve into the philosophical and esoteric spaces that you do, that I find utterly fascinating. Your videos are much deeper than they have any business being. Please keep doing what you’re doing and don’t ever change. Sincerely, A big fan
As a Warrior fan I disputed a lot of the narrative around those 2 KD rings not meaning as much, at least until 2022 when the Warriors won without KD and it was honestly a more satisfying feeling than the previous 3 rings combined. That ring is what cemented Steph’s legacy even far more than his 2015 ring before KD. Because he endured years and years of shit from media members claiming he only won because of KD. And proved it was the other way around.
haven't finished the video yet, (obviously), but I think KD deserves to be in the GOAT conversation in the sense that while having the GOAT conversation you should mention his name to say "he's pretty good but not the GOAT."
Im 37. Grew up in chicago. No athlete electrified the city he played in like MJ. The storylines. The flu game. The fathers day championship the double three peat. The retirement. Playing baseball for the Sox. The comeback. Space Jam. His shoes are legendary. I had his cologne right when it came out. Jordan is a cultural legend in ways players today just cannot be.
I have been saying this for years. He had the perfect story and trajectory for greatness. I just don't think another player can recreate the impact he had on basketball. It's was like a culture shift happened that will never happen again and every player after him will stand on Jordan's shoulders.
It was also a different time. Even if Jordan was born the same year as KD and played in this era he couldn’t achieve that level of cultural impact because no one on this earth can. As a 90s Mj fan myself I remember the culture being different. We were way more optimistic and we actually trusted celebrity. They were inaccessible and sort of alien in a way that’s impossible in this social media era. We also are way more distrusting of stars in general today. We care about their opinions less. The authority once reserved for stars, athletes, and politicians is dissipated in the internet era. Don’t get me wrong MJ would still be the goat today. It just would be closer to how we see a Lebron or Steph than I think people realize.
It’s crazy I don’t think I’ve ever seen in player in sports history win the ultimate prize and it STILL be a detriment to their legacy the way it has been for KD.
Thats because it's not. Those titles are the only reason he's considered top 20. The idea they hurt his legacy is entirely laughable. It's the fact he left and failed that hurts his legacy. Had he stayed in Golden State and won more and been FMVP, people would call him the driving force of that dynasty.
@@dusk6159 2022 was not healthy. Remember the main guy they traded harden for? He didn’t play. Neither did Joe Harris. Those nets had 10 games played together post harden trade. 46 different starting lineups. Any nba team in history with 40 or more starting lineups has been a lottery team. That team lost 11 straight and 17 of 20 when kd got hurt and dropped from the 2 seed to like the 9 seed. Nobody is winning in that situation. Never has been done in any similar situation. A team with no continuity and completely undersized and centers who can’t hit fts.
I saw someone say that KD basically sold his “basketball soul” for these 2 rings and there is a video made by DylanDoesBasketball that dives into that EXACT topic.
Begins the video saying that Duncan is usually forgotten in all-time players conversation. Ends the video forgetting to put Duncan in list of better all-time players than KD. That's either a gross negligence of a very subtle inside joke.
What did kevin durant do at golden state. He scored. In scoring he is better then any other player almost in the nba. That gave the illusion he is the best player on the wariors. Any star player less good then durant joined the wariors and golden state still would have won. Championship is about competing and you being the differnece. You lead the team through hard tomes and dont crumble. In golden state there were no hard times for durant. He took the easiest way possible and scored points, yay. His championships are the most meaningless that have ever been, one step higher then lebrons cop out to join 2 superstars when every team had maybe had 1 superstar and 2 other low level stars.
"There's a separation between what a player thinks of themselves and what the general perception around a player from the fans and media is." We call this, the "Paul Pierce Effect".
Paul Pierce was the clutchest opponent LBJ has ever had. Maybe he didn't score many points, but he was scoring them when it was needed the most. Crazy three point shooter in times, when there were more bricks than made 3Ps.
Durant is simultaneously one of the greatest players of all time and one of the worst GMs of all time. He builds his teams like it's NBA 2K. Instead of building a cohesive team of complementary players who fill different roles and add up to more than the sum of their parts, he opted to just stack as many redundant (and expensive) isolation scorers as possible. KD, Kyrie, and Harden didn't work because they all needed the ball to be effective. You know what's hilarious? He went and made the EXACT SAME MISTAKE with Booker and Beal. After the Suns blow up, just watch him end his career teaming up with Donovan Mitchell and Anthony Edwards. Unbelievable.
Oh he's definitely gonna whine his way out of Phoenix that team is going to implode no question. But Minnesota? I don't think KD wants to play in Minnesota. To be honest, I don't think anyone wants to play in Minnesota.
The longer KD goes without winning a championship post-warriors, the worse those rings will look in hindsight. Especially since the Warriors got one after he left too. He thought he could prove everyone wrong but so far he hasn't. Now all he has is two hollow rings and 13 years of failure otherwise.
@@vickiwampler9823Does he sleep happily at night? With all his burner accounts and team hopping and asking why he isn't in the GOAT conversation it really doesn't sound like he sleeps as happily as he should
@@shepardice3775 you do realize he won both those fmvps right? If he didn’t go to GS then curry would have 2 less rings and nobody would consider him top 10 OAT
he thought he could win another ring in a different team?? dude like wtf nobody believed he could even play at this level after his injury.. what KD said was true he just wants to play without the toxicity GSW had probably only "DRAYMOND".. nobody expected anything from KD he just proved everyone wrong and then the haters came back at him
An issue I see with KD is that he sometimes just doesn't want "it" as much as other greats, an example is how everytime he has a high scoring game he'll comment on how he could probably do that every game but finds it too tiring
Source or proof? The only time I’ve ever heard him say something about taking a lot of shots is when he was on the warriors and he said that’s not his game to take 30 shots.
KD was so loved on OKC. If he had stayed and they managed to get a title or two, he might not be GOAT level, but at least would have been held in the same regard as Dirk. And i think a lot of players would have loved to have had Dirk's career.
KD was my favorite player for so long as a OKC fan, and then poof he threw it away. I would of prefered him do some Lebron type shit and force the front office to make a move if anything. Look what trades they made after he left, no way you can tell me they couldn't of built a championship team around him if he expressed he wasn't happy playing with Westbrook. That being said Im glad we kept Westbrook and had a loyal star and not a coward that KD showed himself to be.
@@tylermcarthur6565 the thing I don't get with the comments is that, what would they do with trading westbrook, who do you expect to trade for to help KD get his rings? because KD even got swept with Kyrie
@@Sg6CrossOver its not really entirely on westbrook, KD got swept with kyrie, not westbrook, in the 1st round, russ never got swept in the 1st round yet, both guys have stunted resumes without each other, KD had to join and form a superteam with a back2back unanimous mvp guy who changed the game and is generational to get those 2 rings, when he left that, his real flaws showed, I personally think thunder with kd, russ, and harden were never going to win anything, as they still have the same flaws to this date that they had in that 2012 finals to earn then that loss
@@theonlygoodonehere2259 you know Russ best playoff run after KD was on the rockets, in seven years he had one good playoff run, that thunder team wasn't winning without harden period.
Kevin literally replied under a post with 2000 LIKES defending himself against a well thought out 1 min video about why he’s not in the GOAT list. Bro even responded to other comments. Man is genuinely pissed.
if KD gets 2 more rings hes gonna beat most of the top 10 listed players.. accolades / stats he already surpassed most of them only thing he has less is rings
@@legenddaryl537Uh... no?? 🤣 4 rings (2 that weren't with the superteam Warriors) and 4 scoring titles is not better than "most top 10 players" at all
Hi Rusty, Last time I guessed that this would be the next video that you’d make. I’m guessing your next one is on the Dehumanization of Athletes (a topic you said you wanted to get to a couple years back, and I’d be intrigued to hear what you’d say about). You also said one hit wonders would be a topic you wanted to talk about back in the deep dive days. Hopefully that’s still in the pipeline too. Really enjoying the videos of late!
Isiah Thomas > KD. Yep. 2 championships in the MJ era with some top defensive players but not superstars vs. 2 "super-team" rings. Zeke is totally underrated.
well if you're going by metrics and whatnot- tis probably draymond. eye test its kd. this video actually made me confirm that wade has a better case of goat than kd and even steph. steph just a media darling
I can't stress enough how long I was waiting for this video and I'm so happy it's during your "elaborated, hour-long, deep dive videos" period. It's been a pure enjoyment for me as the second biggest KD hater in the world.
from a narrative standpoint, i really do enjoy Kevin Durant's career exactly because of these messes he has caused for himself while chasing greatness. not every nba great can or has to be a knight in shining armor, sometimes they are insecure tragic heroes as well which is something i really like about KD. he has a lot of parallels to LeBron while chasing James' shadow for so many years, like the ringless tenure with the team that drafted him, the convergence on a superteam to win two rings and then the divergence of the parallel paths, KD failing at making his own legacy while LeBron succeeded, just like cosmic antagonists.
If anything it’s a precautionary tale for future star players. This rings mentality has plagued the NBA and if it wasn’t for Bron winning outside of Miami (and that 2016 ring), Bron would be seen the same as KD in a lesser extent. Those Warriors seasons ruined the competition of the NBA and overall ruined the fan experience during those years. It would show stars that you can enjoy those rings at the moment, but in the future it would be seen as a cop out and not as an accomplishment.
Man, those OKC teams were awesome. I really liked watching them on the playoffs, especially with the atmosphere of all the blue t-shirts that they distributed. It gave a beautiful image on the TV.
the thing i've always thought about durant was "what if he stayed in oakland?". i mean, there's always talk about if he stayed loyal to okc, but to me, if he had stayed a warrior, he would have had kind of a shaq trajectory : grew to superstardom on a young and talented but not championship-caliber team, joined a championship-caliber team to finaly get the trophies he wanted (because at that point, respect and appreciation he undisputably deserved), and just bounced a bit back around on the tail end of his career after being "the guy" on a superteam. of course, like shaq, his move in itself was controversial, but i think that, like shaq, if he had stayed there, if he had been the actual engine of that dynasty, if he had struggled with the other warriors, he would have that "story".... instead, he acted like a mercenary, and the story's steph's. and guess what....curry now *is* in the goat conversation. qfd ?
I really appreciate the effort and production value put into these videos. Im a KD stan and i watched through the whole hour of the video and somehow enjoyed it despite disagreeing with so many of your points. Well done Rusty, keep these videos coming
I loved Durant as a kid I was able to get one of his autographs when he was still on OKC and he was so humble! Then he went to the warriors and broke my heart!
I also thought he was humble then, but in retrospect he may have just been quieter. Not sure if he changed personalities or just began to express himself more loudly
I hate determining individual quality or greatness at the hand of accolades or "story". It's why I hate the MVP award, or at least how it gets decided. Some amazing players will never get the credit they deserve just because they were on bad teams, and others get overhyped just because they were on good teams. But that doesn't say anything about how good they were individually. It's a team sport individual accolades shouldn't matter as much as they do
Yeah I always thought that myself. Yes a player can score 30ppg 15 assists etc. they wouldn't have those stats if it wasn't for the 4 other guys around them. In the nfl if a qb wins mvp I feel the offensive line should win along them
KD (legacy wise) should’ve stayed in GSW. If he would continue to make deep playoff runs and won 1-2 more rings. Yea he joined GSW, but in the meantime he literally helped solidly GS as one of the best teams of all time
@@Remmy0930 I don't think he is though. I remember him mentioning it in a video a long time ago, if I remember right he is a bit over 6 feet tall. Which while compared to NBA players that's small, it certainly isn't compared to men in general. I will say to @caydenlloyd2181, it doesn't really do it as much as it may seem because a sizeable portion of that difference comes from the very short distance between the camera & both the ball & Rusty himself. There are some other things that further give a distorted view compared to the view of NBA players/games, but the two other things I'm thinking of only work when combined with that short distance.
It's almost 100% due to the illusion of a wide angle lens vs longer focal lengths you're used to on NBA TV games. Wide angle lens makes the nearer object appear much larger relative to the surroundings. Due to the court size games are shot super zoomed in which makes players seem much bigger vs the ball. If he shot this on a 85mm lens. You'd immediately see his body as broad and the ball as smaller.
Loved your video. Found it funny you didnt have Tim Duncan on your list of better than KD especially when using it in your video. Hes also a common top 10 name so an interesting omission. I would also say Jokic
Not only robbed us of the better version of KD carreer, but also robbed us of a boston vs LA style rivalry between the cavs and the warriors. We could have some amazing finals in 17 and 18, but instead got trashings that nobody cared about
I used to hate KD but after a post game interview against my favorite team where my team lost (utah jazz) he was humble and gave my team credit my opinion of KD changed dermaticaly. He's definitely not the goat but he deserves respect. Michael Jordan is the goat and it's not even close
people just hate on him and this image of a person that he isn't. Truth is that he is nothing like twitter and youtuber nerds think, they haven't seen a single one of his post game interviews because context doesn't matter to them. Glaring example is that people say he "doesn't take accountability". They clearly haven't heard him speak once
I’ll never understand why people to this very day hate on the man for making an executive move for the betterment of his future and career. The NBA is literally a job they get paid to due based off their performance and success.
@@fortynights1513some people put an asterisk on the 2015 Warriors championship. Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love were missing from the Cavs, and Steph didn’t win FMVP. 2022 put those doubts to rest.
It was the right question: what makes him legendary? For Kobe it was his maniac work ethic, 81 point game, 5 titles. For MJ it was scoring, impact on the game, titles, dominance. For LBJ it is his versatility, longevity and 3-1 finals comeback. What makes Durant the goat?
nothing about kd would be talked about maybe something makes him special is that his guy thats good at basketball just a guy he should just not force himself in these conversation and even with duncan his fundemntal and simplicity with curry the way he change the game tactically if he had won that 2021 championship can you imagine "kd won a ring with kyrie injured and james harden limping" that would've been legacy changer imo
As a cavs fan, that 2017 summer cap spike that basically gave the gsw a max salary spot for a team that was fully capped was a huge mistake compared to the cap smoothing period of 5 years the owners suggested. Kevin going to gsw after losing to them in 7 games in the wcf was an all-time weak move. This isn't lebron forming a new super team in miami, kevin essentially joined the existing core of a team that won 73 wins last year. He deprived basketball fans of an all time great rivarly between the warriors and cavs. It would've rivaled the celtics lakers rivalry of the 80s
It wasn't a cap spike in 2017 that got KD to the Warriors. The cap spike took place in 2016. Everybody on the warriors either had cheap extension that were signed prior to the 16 cap spike, like Curry who signed a 4 year 44 mil extension (it was so low relative to his abilities during that contract because there were concerns over his ankles after 2 major ankle injuries early in his career), or because players were still on their rookie deals. They had cap space because the cap rose the year prior and all the contracts the organization had on the books were signed prior to that rise in the cap.
yup.. im a KD fan and i accept most of what rusty said.. but hey he isnt retired so many things can still happen.. i can see him still playing 2-3 seasons more and if he gets 2more rings he will get past most of the top 10 players rusty listed
@@brendanbloom3366 team awards?? who do you think is carrying suns this season?? KD is the only consistent guy they have.. KD always been the best player in every team he played
i feel like KD failing to make his own super teams just makes Lebron's GOAT argument that much stronger, it's not as easy as people were saying it was when Lebron did it
I always thought KD had one foot out the door already and then his verbal altercation with Draymond was the final nail in the coffin for him to leave. That’s why I never really truly bought into the narrative that Draymond “chased him out” of Golden State like many others believe.
he really did.. the guy already said it and those are facts.. what you have are speculations.. the league also has something to do about it because of the Fans getting butthurt because all of their favorite teams got kicked in the face without mercy..
Yooo, how TF is Tim Duncan not on that list?? 52:17 Especially with Garnett and Dirk on the list. Nothing against them but in an apples-to-apples comp he’s clearly ahead. Am I crazy?
I love the logical approach to encapsulate everything that makes basketball great. This is a valuable video from the perspective of sports but also in terms of contributing to how people view a discipline. Love it
I also feel like the '22 Warriors chip damaged KD's perception even more. It drove home the point thar Curry & Co didn't need KD before, and they didn't need him after.
During the mid-2010s I grew up in the East Bay and I almost never really heard much about Durant. Everyone in town loved the warriors but it was always about the splash brothers and especially Steph. He was a good player but he didn't have the electricity of a superstar and most people weren't talking about him even as he won 2 rings. Steph will always be the hero here and he's pretty much universally beloved. I'm not gonna compare them because I'm not knowledgeable enough, just the feelings I have growing up as a warriors fan
This gives off "How KD Sold His Basketball Soul" vibes. Idk if that vid inspired this, but hats off for taking it further. I like how u talk about the wide margin between the top 1%. LeBron, Kobe, & MJ can't even see KD in their respective rear views.
I agree KD being in the GOAT convo is ludicrous, and delusional. However, I'm definitely not a hater. He's done amazing things in his career. He's a special, special talent. One of the best one-on-one offensive scorer's this game's ever seen. And I think in 2019 (before his season-ending achilles injury), he was widely considered to be the best player in the world at the time. You could still argue LeBron at that time (LeBron was better in 2018), but KD (I think) had a legitimate claim at a point in time as being the best player (at that particular moment in time) as being the best player in the world. However, that has definitely changed, and he's never been the best player in the world since. And he's DEFINITELY not in the GOAT convo, I don't think he's even top 10 all-time. Mayyybbeee top 20.
Yeh I’ve got him around 18-25, I’d have to think through the entire list as I usually just focus on the top 10 but I don’t see him going any higher than 18, maybe 17 at absolute best
per 100 possession doesnt matter if it only applied in their peaks.. the problem with most of the top players you listed they dont have the same longevity as durant.. durant at 35 still average 28-29ppg.. from rookie year up to his current 15th season he still the same if not even better.. MJ is the only guy much better than KD in scoring but the problem is KD isnt retired.. if he plays 5 more season KD can still be considered better scorer than MJ
@@pedrocordeiro304 he is way better scorer than both players you said.. kobe and lebron would only dream of having durants shooting ability.. MJ is different he is the GOAT for a reason
@@legenddaryl537scoring is only one part though. He might be a better scorer than Kobe and LeBron, but he ain't close to being a better player than them.
I love KD so much, he is a super hardworking individual that has perfected his craft. Wether it’s all his fault or not, this all began cause of increased salary cap that allowed the warriors to get him. Yeah he maybe would’ve gone somewhere else at some other point, but I just wish this Mf was born in 1962. He is a unicorn that yes is shaped by todays game but is also a truly unique basketball talent. To see him get drafted in the 80s and most likely stay on a team forever would change his legacy so much, he just got caught up with the impatient mindset present in the NBA nowadays. While I hate how his career has turned out, I love his craft more, and I’ll always consider him on the best players of all time.
Agreed. And as much as he even ended up burning the Warriors you gotta give the man credit. And he is not a bad guy. So much it's really sad to even have to say that about him. The mistakes most people make actually hurt people and KD is just a basketball player trying to 'do him'. When people want to flame at entitled arseholes or bad humans who are just good at basketball they need to leave KD out of those conversations. Not that this video did anything like that but... in general "hating on KD" is a lot easier to do than it should be. Far easier.
Here is the thing: If the team you joined was now so loaded that they had to put their NBA FINALS MVP from only 2 years prior on the bench to accommodate you... then yeah you will get no respect especially if you haven't won without said team.
![What Does “Most Valuable” Really Mean? [Deep Dive]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cIO4Qx6veh8/mqdefault.jpg)
![What Does “Most Valuable” Really Mean? [Deep Dive]](/img/tr.png)
I knew there was someone missing from the list of players higher all time than KD. My bad Timmy lol
Go to sleeper.com or download the app, and use promo code Rusty and for a limited time you'll get up to a $500 match on your first deposit. Terms and conditions apply. See Sleeper’s Terms of Use for details. Currently operational in over 25 states. Check out Sleeper today!
Himothy Timothy
Timmy!!!!
Rings are rings and Robert Horry is the goatb😂
You didn't miss out completely you referenced him as a goat contender at the beginning in your goat formula.
haha......well said like a true regenerating green dungeons and dragons 3hp a round Troll@@vcalv9354
That “you’re the real MVP” speech has to be one of the greatest speeches ever. Shit gives me goosebumps everytime
fucking tears me up
It became memeable but looked how it is used. Most of the time it’s used in positive manner.
@bandito241 funny you say that. It really is an amazingly positive meme. Everytime someone helps me at work I send it via TEAMS
@@kperk1 it was corny. He said his mom woke him up to run hills? Lol. He shoukd have taken the credit amd just thanked his mom
@@XYz-co1ob cornball
Durant when you're reading this on your alt just know this man is speaking facts
😬ouch 🥶
@willadmou621 yall basement trolls have no life and rusty has never played basketball or any other sport when I see his bosh
Yeah, I disagree with half his list of players that are greater than KD just based off skill alone
Here comes the burner
@@michaelbest4739skill has very little to do in a greatness convo
This is why KD career is so fascinating. It’s like he sold his souls for the warriors tenure. At age 27 he had an MVP, 4 scoring titles, multiple all nba and all stars, and was genuinely one of the most beloved players. Then he joined GSW and after that it just feels like his resume stagnated outside of the 2 rings, not to mention the legacy hit that he took
Here's the thing that's extra hilarious. Despite him thinking that Warriors time hurts his argument, it's literally the only reason he's even considered top 20. Had he just stayed there, rattled off two more rings and FMVPs he might actually have an argument.
if he woulda went anywhere but GS (the team that embarrassed his team three months prior) he would still be in the convo for top 10
i used to get into arguments in school about kd being better than bron, but once he went to join a superteam, that was it on his goat convo
The fact that KD has titles isn’t as impressive with him going to Golden State and such.
But to be fair, he played pretty darn well in the finals (35 points on nearly 70% true shooting in 2017 is good I’d say).
Out of curiosity though,
If he hypothetically had his entire career resume for one team, where would he rank for you? And where does he rank as is for you?
@@kyletucker3811yep, him leaving and the warriors winning without him absolutely crushes any possibility of him being top 10 IMO. Unless he somehow won a couple more titles before retiring, then maybe I could see an argument but I doubt that’ll happen and even if it does it’s him just hopping by from super team to super team. Maybe if he went back to OKC before this year that could have done a lot but now that they are significantly better even that wouldn’t be enough, at least IMO
Olajuwon has a great story. Barely knew the game in Nigeria; came over to Houston and worked his ass off in a local gym with Moses Malone, then helped turn UofH into the most exciting college team ever, went through the Twin Towers experiment, gave the '86 Celtics everything they could handle, perfected the aesthetically beautiful dream shake, made himself into an absolute beast on both ends of the court, single-handedly brought Houston its first two major sports championships, all while insisting on observing Ramadan requirements. Only player ever to be season MVP, Finals MVP and Defensive POY in the same year. Retired top 10 all-time in steals with no other center in the top 50. More than 500 career blocks ahead of second place (Mutombo). Indisputably Number 1 on Houston's Mount Rushmore of sports. He didn't need to sell sneakers or be in cheesy movies or throw down huge bets. Such an icon because he's a reflection of what Houston prides itself on - an immigrant helping to shape the culture of a city. Olajuwon was chosen ahead of Jordan in the draft and nobody here in Houston regrets it.
That’s what’s so crazy to me. Being selected over Michael Jordan and being able to justify your teams choice is insane
Beautifully said. Hakeem is in the goat debate. He doesn’t WIN this debate but is in it
We love Hakeem truthers
That's why Olajuwon is a top 10 player in my book (current list including Lebron because I know where he places - 2nd - but not including Curry because I'm sure he'll end up top 10 but not sure where yet).
my goat
One weird thing about the 2017 and 2018 rings is that while its value is lessened for Durant no one really takes it away from the other Warriors. They proved they could win without Durant and their narratives all held. Curry remained the best player on the team, Thompson was still the 3 and D splash brother side kick, Green was the best flex defender in the sport, and Kerr was still a great coach. They didn’t need Durant but he needed them. At least that’s how it feels.
they needed durant for the healthy cavs
@@nimatalebi1912they didn’t need KD. They were literally one win away from beating them. KD was just the guarantee that he’ll win.
Also it didn’t really lessen it for the other Warriors because they won before and after him. They’re the ones who cultivated the culture that KD went with.
Straight facts! They cruised to a 73-9 record without him even though they lost to my Cavs 😁
It especially helps in hindsight because the warriors did win another one without him
It’s not weird at all. They won a title before Durant got there and won one when he left, so how could they be diminished?
One ring in OKC would have been worth both GS chips
Would’ve been worth a GS threepeat
@@king_supreme1102 KD winning outside GSW would be worth 6 rings.
even now a ring with the suns will be double as 1 with gs...but this seems undoable
Y'all just be talking 😂😂😂😂 carryon
Easily
I wish KD understood that our criticisms of his decisions have always been rooted in disappointment. You can't be disappointed in someone unless you already believe in what they are capable of achieving
It was rooted in Lebron fans being mad he beat him twice
@@showyspicksshowydagreat8529no it wasn’t lol
@@showyspicksshowydagreat8529I’m sure when KD went to the Warriors tht EVERYBODY hated th move. Regardless of team they supported.
@@showyspicksshowydagreat8529everybody hates that decision and it had nothing to do with LD, even the old heads called that weak
Accurate comment.
It’s crazy how in 2012 LeBron was the villain of the NBA and KD was one of the heroes, then in 2017 it was the other way around.
because they did the same thing.. creating a superteam that is
@@legenddaryl537KD is worse in my opinion. Bron CREATED a superteam with wade and bosch, he had a role in forming it. KD JOINED a superteam, a team that didn’t even need him to win.
@@UnacceptedBySocietyArtistthe warriors before he joined was a great team that had insane chemistry. they definitely weren’t a “superteam” in the traditional sense. that’s when u join stars together artificially, for the sole purpose of winning a ring. obviously all context considered, kd’s move was weaker, but they both joined allstars to FORM a superteam to win "easy" rings. which i disagree, every ring is earned. its not like kd or bron automatically won the championship just cuz their team's were insane.
@@UnacceptedBySocietyArtist GSW wasnt a superteam.. they just have a great system which they started thats why the league didnt have any counter to it.. can you really call GSW superteam when green and klay are both glorified role players?? compare that to wade and bosh who were bonafide superstars?? talentwise that miami team and cavs team still were the more talented team.. KD just tipped the scale so much it looked imbalanced..
@@legenddaryl537They literally had the best regular season record all time & the only unanimous MVP in history, if that doesn't qualify a team as a super team idk what does
The question isn't whether KD is the GOAT, the question is whether he's closer to 10 or 25
KD is like 12-15th. Anything worse is ridiculous.
@@jonathansykes4986
All 11 of these guys are def higher than KD imo:
MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Wilt
Steph
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq
Magic
Bill Russell
Hakeem
There are more arguably, but those ones are pretty definitive to me. So I pretty much agree with you.
bird
jokic, he actually gave the team that drafted him their first chip
@@luizhenriqueweiller2304And didn't run to a team that has won without him twice almost 3 times without him. The same team that kicked his ass when he as up 3 games with 3 MVP calibur players on his team and deep bench.
He hasn't done anything in the playoffs without Curry there to truly lead his team. GS was never has never been KD's team either. KD hasn't done anything when he is "the guy." He just runs. A coward. That's why he'll never be the GOAT. Can't be a coward and be a GOAT.
Regarding story, Steph literally changed how the entire game is played. Before Steph, taking an early shot clock three off the dribble would get you benched. Now it's standard practice. The whole damn sport copied his playstyle. You can't get any more impactful than that.
For sure, I don't think anyone denies Curry is one of the most influential players of all time.
You kind of touched on this when you mentioned the importance of a player's "story" but there is a reason it is the Greatest of all Time (GOAT) and not the Best of all Time (BOAT). Part of Greatness is being legendary, larger than life, awe inspiring, captivating. People ignore that too much in these convos
Yeah, like all the legendary stories about MJ. Even his rivals tell stories about him.
Lol ... this is sports, not a semantics lecture. It's just sweaty men running up and down chasing balls and each other. It's genuinely not that profound. I don't think we need a linguistics professor contributing to this discussion coz I think there's areas in life where you grasp of linguistics is more useful.
@@Ngatiatimothy you can make anything seem not profound and pointless if you describe it this specifically.
@WhatAMagician: I don't ignore it, I deny it. GOAT=Best Of All Time, full stop.
Exactly - so if I’m watching a human being, and I am seeing things that I can see in plenty of other people day after day as I go through life, what exactly is so “great“ about that?
When I look at MJ or KB, the dedication they had, the leadership they displayed (no matter if I agreed with the tactics), and the sheer force of will and determination they showed day after day as they drove their bodies to exhaustion…. How they continually impressed with how they handled themselves, and their genuine displays of intellect and humility. These things simply ARE NOT COMMON.
When I look at LeBron, KD, or a lot of these modern day stars, I see no more than physically gifted versions of the exact same humans I see day in and day out; the same narcissistic douche bags that have next to no self-awareness whatsoever, and have all the humility of Donald Trump. Again, what the effing F is so great about any of that?
KD aside, I would love these "GOAT Rubric" analyses for other greats as well.
Me too! I would love to see one for Wilt and Bird. We don’t knock Lebron for losing to a juggernaut Warriors, but we knock Wilt for losing to an even bigger juggernaut (in terms of hall of famers) in the Celtics. People say his offensive stats dropped in the playoffs, but don’t take into account how centers like him were often asked to change their game in the playoffs. Bird is probably the most underrated passer of all time, scored from everywhere, and is arguably the most clutch player ever, who also had to go up against on of the greatest teams in the 80s Lakers. Since people do argue Bird and Wilt for being the GOAT, I wanna see that argument.
I never knew that about wilt, why were they asked to change their game, was it because they thought defense won championships@@lukekiefer5964
@@lukekiefer5964What u smoking? LeBron gets knocked for everything. He gets killed for losing the '07 finals instead of praised for carrying that team there at 22 y/o w/no help & a weak coach. Killed for losing to GS after Love/Kyrie injuries. Same for losing to GS after Kyrie left & KD joined. The title in the bubble? Worthless! In-season tourney? Laughable! If anyone else won those they'd be praised for it.
Now you're claiming the Russell, White, Cousy, Havlicek, Celts was superior to the Steph, Klay, Draymond, Iguodala, Durant, Livingston Warriors. That's comical.
Not only would GS destroy them ( w/o KD) but LeBron's 07 Cavs team would kill them too.
It'll all change when LeBron takes a ride in the Golden State whip.
@@JasonlaroseLaRose GS today is not GS 8 years ago
My hot take; Joining the warriors and winning championships didn’t hurt his resume but leaving and not winning championships sure did.
This is the correct take. And I’ll add to it with a hot take of my own; Leaving GSW did more damage to KD’s legacy than joining GSW.
If Durant stays in Golden State, they win a few more rings and become one of the greatest dynasties in history, he would be looked at a lot more preferably than he is now. He bet that he would win with Kyrie in Brooklyn, and he bet wrong. I was a huge KD fan until he left GSW. Winning a few rings and leaving was not a good look to me.
I disagree slightly. Joining GS hurt his legacy but not as much as people were saying it did. Leaving is what really hurt his legacy because if he would've stayed he would've won more and looked at more favorably as time goes on. However, by leaving GS and failing to win elsewhere he basically legitimized the criticism that he can't win without Curry. It also doesn't help thay Curry has won without him. By the way it's looking in Phoenix he'll probably never win another ring. The best thing KD could've done is either stay in GS or never join them in the first place.
Exactly this. Going to Brooklyn just proved how much KD needed Steph and company and the Dubs turning around and winning another one without him reinforced it.
@@TK-rz6ni he was never gonna stay after Draymond called him a bitch, that was the final nail in the coffin.
Dear Rusty,
I’m a much older NBA fan than you. I have been watching basketball since long before you were born. But your insight consistently amazes me. You are wise far beyond your years, and I am once again awestruck by how thoughtful and articulate you are. I watch a lot of NBA TH-camrs, and while they all know their basketball, none of them delve into the philosophical and esoteric spaces that you do, that I find utterly fascinating. Your videos are much deeper than they have any business being. Please keep doing what you’re doing and don’t ever change.
Sincerely,
A big fan
Get off the meat
As a Warrior fan I disputed a lot of the narrative around those 2 KD rings not meaning as much, at least until 2022 when the Warriors won without KD and it was honestly a more satisfying feeling than the previous 3 rings combined. That ring is what cemented Steph’s legacy even far more than his 2015 ring before KD. Because he endured years and years of shit from media members claiming he only won because of KD. And proved it was the other way around.
haven't finished the video yet, (obviously), but I think KD deserves to be in the GOAT conversation in the sense that while having the GOAT conversation you should mention his name to say "he's pretty good but not the GOAT."
One of the more talented players who isn’t the best ever.
Wow that's a 3rd to 4th degree burn dude
then is that really being in GOAT conversations?
That was a nasty comment 😂😂😂
Holy smokes 💀
Im 37. Grew up in chicago. No athlete electrified the city he played in like MJ. The storylines. The flu game. The fathers day championship the double three peat. The retirement. Playing baseball for the Sox. The comeback. Space Jam. His shoes are legendary. I had his cologne right when it came out. Jordan is a cultural legend in ways players today just cannot be.
I have been saying this for years. He had the perfect story and trajectory for greatness. I just don't think another player can recreate the impact he had on basketball. It's was like a culture shift happened that will never happen again and every player after him will stand on Jordan's shoulders.
Bro we get it, you're in romantic love with a man
It was also a different time. Even if Jordan was born the same year as KD and played in this era he couldn’t achieve that level of cultural impact because no one on this earth can. As a 90s Mj fan myself I remember the culture being different. We were way more optimistic and we actually trusted celebrity. They were inaccessible and sort of alien in a way that’s impossible in this social media era. We also are way more distrusting of stars in general today. We care about their opinions less. The authority once reserved for stars, athletes, and politicians is dissipated in the internet era. Don’t get me wrong MJ would still be the goat today. It just would be closer to how we see a Lebron or Steph than I think people realize.
I attribute a lot of that to the times
I’m a Bulls fan born in 1998 I had d rose taken away from me. You’re so lucky
It’s crazy I don’t think I’ve ever seen in player in sports history win the ultimate prize and it STILL be a detriment to their legacy the way it has been for KD.
Thats because it's not. Those titles are the only reason he's considered top 20. The idea they hurt his legacy is entirely laughable. It's the fact he left and failed that hurts his legacy. Had he stayed in Golden State and won more and been FMVP, people would call him the driving force of that dynasty.
@@kyletucker3811left and failed? Hasn’t had a healthy team in the playoffs since 2018.
@@kyletucker3811 Getting those titles is part of him not having a spine and not being a man, and the coveted reason for his move
@@brendanbloom3366 2022 was healthy, and the Suns had their main guys too
@@dusk6159 2022 was not healthy. Remember the main guy they traded harden for? He didn’t play. Neither did Joe Harris. Those nets had 10 games played together post harden trade. 46 different starting lineups. Any nba team in history with 40 or more starting lineups has been a lottery team. That team lost 11 straight and 17 of 20 when kd got hurt and dropped from the 2 seed to like the 9 seed. Nobody is winning in that situation. Never has been done in any similar situation. A team with no continuity and completely undersized and centers who can’t hit fts.
I saw someone say that KD basically sold his “basketball soul” for these 2 rings and there is a video made by DylanDoesBasketball that dives into that EXACT topic.
Exactly and it is a sobering video as a once die hard KD fan
@@ryanpalma5947meaning??
@@ryanpalma5947 When did you stop being a fan?
@@oliverdelica2289do you really even have to ask that question?
Begins the video saying that Duncan is usually forgotten in all-time players conversation. Ends the video forgetting to put Duncan in list of better all-time players than KD. That's either a gross negligence of a very subtle inside joke.
KD - “What haven’t I done?”
Everybody - “Found contentment in your career and just been happy all around.”
No player this era’s done that to be fair they all bounce around chasing chips
"What haven't I done?"
Won a chip without curry...
@@OhYummmmp Only exceptions being Curry and Jokic, but that's about it.
Bc KD is only happy when you believe he’s happy. Nobody’s concerned about another grown man’s happiness but you bro.
Giannis
I think KD the only human unsatisfied with being a top 11-20 all time player in the sport
Kobe or Jordan wouldn't be satisfied if they weren't unanimous top 10 players. They set out to be the GOAT. Maybe Kd is the same way.
More like Top 13-22
@@blacknetsmedokay bro lol
That's exactly where I'd put him... closer to 20 than 11, but within the top 20 all-time.
@@coolkidbradude7745 he doesn't show as much with his attitude though
As a KD hater this the typa shit I'll have playing in the background when I go to bed every night.
Going to bed right now bro 😂
Shit like a bedtime story real shit
Doing it rn
The KD hating brotherhood is strong 💪🏻
What did kevin durant do at golden state. He scored. In scoring he is better then any other player almost in the nba. That gave the illusion he is the best player on the wariors. Any star player less good then durant joined the wariors and golden state still would have won. Championship is about competing and you being the differnece. You lead the team through hard tomes and dont crumble. In golden state there were no hard times for durant. He took the easiest way possible and scored points, yay. His championships are the most meaningless that have ever been, one step higher then lebrons cop out to join 2 superstars when every team had maybe had 1 superstar and 2 other low level stars.
"There's a separation between what a player thinks of themselves and what the general perception around a player from the fans and media is."
We call this, the "Paul Pierce Effect".
“They don’t love you like that.”
Paul Pierce: One of the best players who never finished top five in an MVP vote in his career.
“That’s easy me”
Paul Pierce was the clutchest opponent LBJ has ever had. Maybe he didn't score many points, but he was scoring them when it was needed the most. Crazy three point shooter in times, when there were more bricks than made 3Ps.
PP is the greatest trash player of all time, now that’s the Truth.
Durant is simultaneously one of the greatest players of all time and one of the worst GMs of all time. He builds his teams like it's NBA 2K. Instead of building a cohesive team of complementary players who fill different roles and add up to more than the sum of their parts, he opted to just stack as many redundant (and expensive) isolation scorers as possible. KD, Kyrie, and Harden didn't work because they all needed the ball to be effective. You know what's hilarious? He went and made the EXACT SAME MISTAKE with Booker and Beal. After the Suns blow up, just watch him end his career teaming up with Donovan Mitchell and Anthony Edwards. Unbelievable.
Oh he's definitely gonna whine his way out of Phoenix that team is going to implode no question. But Minnesota? I don't think KD wants to play in Minnesota. To be honest, I don't think anyone wants to play in Minnesota.
I think you forgot Tim Duncan on your list of players better than KD. Also comment for the algorithm.
Yeah, just got to that part too and was immediately thrown off.
foreal, theres no way he thinks KD's better than Timmy. I hope its an error lmao
@@rukunaaron2361pretty sure he thinks Tim is better and it was an honest mistake
Wade and Dirk aren’t better than Durant
@@GeriatricHippowade and Dirk aren’t better than Durant
KD's career is the epitome of "one of the best to ever do it, but at what cost?"
lbj enters the chat😅
First ballot hofer ...every person he sees irl asks for pics and autographs . So I guess the cost is Twitter trolls and random TH-cam comments.
As a Warriors fan! Durant is one of the All Time Greats! But he’s not the in the GOAT conversation!
Durant would be Top 25 but I think he would be in the 20s. Which is a shame because he could have been hanging around the 10-15.
@@290TheEmpireRecordsJames went back to Cleveland, so he’s a step up for sure
The longer KD goes without winning a championship post-warriors, the worse those rings will look in hindsight. Especially since the Warriors got one after he left too. He thought he could prove everyone wrong but so far he hasn't. Now all he has is two hollow rings and 13 years of failure otherwise.
Idk bro I think he sleeps happily at night. Sounds like you don’t tho
@@vickiwampler9823Does he sleep happily at night? With all his burner accounts and team hopping and asking why he isn't in the GOAT conversation it really doesn't sound like he sleeps as happily as he should
@@shepardice3775 you do realize he won both those fmvps right? If he didn’t go to GS then curry would have 2 less rings and nobody would consider him top 10 OAT
he thought he could win another ring in a different team?? dude like wtf nobody believed he could even play at this level after his injury.. what KD said was true he just wants to play without the toxicity GSW had probably only "DRAYMOND".. nobody expected anything from KD he just proved everyone wrong and then the haters came back at him
@@vickiwampler9823Now people are stressed because they have a differing opinion? You sound like a pop Stan rn 😂
An issue I see with KD is that he sometimes just doesn't want "it" as much as other greats, an example is how everytime he has a high scoring game he'll comment on how he could probably do that every game but finds it too tiring
Source or proof? The only time I’ve ever heard him say something about taking a lot of shots is when he was on the warriors and he said that’s not his game to take 30 shots.
KD was so loved on OKC. If he had stayed and they managed to get a title or two, he might not be GOAT level, but at least would have been held in the same regard as Dirk. And i think a lot of players would have loved to have had Dirk's career.
KD was my favorite player for so long as a OKC fan, and then poof he threw it away. I would of prefered him do some Lebron type shit and force the front office to make a move if anything. Look what trades they made after he left, no way you can tell me they couldn't of built a championship team around him if he expressed he wasn't happy playing with Westbrook. That being said Im glad we kept Westbrook and had a loyal star and not a coward that KD showed himself to be.
@@tylermcarthur6565 the thing I don't get with the comments is that, what would they do with trading westbrook, who do you expect to trade for to help KD get his rings? because KD even got swept with Kyrie
They were never going to win in OKC after harden left, Westbrook to this day hasn't done anything note worthy on the playoffs after KD left
@@Sg6CrossOver its not really entirely on westbrook, KD got swept with kyrie, not westbrook, in the 1st round, russ never got swept in the 1st round yet, both guys have stunted resumes without each other, KD had to join and form a superteam with a back2back unanimous mvp guy who changed the game and is generational to get those 2 rings, when he left that, his real flaws showed, I personally think thunder with kd, russ, and harden were never going to win anything, as they still have the same flaws to this date that they had in that 2012 finals to earn then that loss
@@theonlygoodonehere2259 you know Russ best playoff run after KD was on the rockets, in seven years he had one good playoff run, that thunder team wasn't winning without harden period.
Kevin literally replied under a post with 2000 LIKES defending himself against a well thought out 1 min video about why he’s not in the GOAT list. Bro even responded to other comments. Man is genuinely pissed.
Post this vid as a reply
Where?
@@fortynights1513 it was on IG
Just imagine all the responses he posted under his umpteen burner accounts. 🤣
The only way KD can get back into the GOAT convo is if he signs with the home team wizards and brings us another 1st round exit. #MJ2.0
w comment
if KD gets 2 more rings hes gonna beat most of the top 10 listed players.. accolades / stats he already surpassed most of them only thing he has less is rings
@@legenddaryl537you just ignored this whole video huh 😭😭
@@legenddaryl537Uh... no?? 🤣 4 rings (2 that weren't with the superteam Warriors) and 4 scoring titles is not better than "most top 10 players" at all
He should join the dude he couldn't beat heads up Giannis and team up to get 3 rings before retiring.
Hi Rusty,
Last time I guessed that this would be the next video that you’d make.
I’m guessing your next one is on the Dehumanization of Athletes (a topic you said you wanted to get to a couple years back, and I’d be intrigued to hear what you’d say about).
You also said one hit wonders would be a topic you wanted to talk about back in the deep dive days. Hopefully that’s still in the pipeline too.
Really enjoying the videos of late!
FD Signifier has an excellent video on this. I'm confident Rusty knows that. Still, interested in what he can add.
Isiah Thomas > KD. Yep. 2 championships in the MJ era with some top defensive players but not superstars vs. 2 "super-team" rings. Zeke is totally underrated.
Agreed
Yes Zeke is in the goat tier.
I would KILL for a “Why Steph was the best player on the Warriors the entire time” video from you
It's not true though. Steph was the most valuable, not equivalent to the best
@@jerryren4076Who do you think was the best then?
@@mcfrisko834 Who’s there besides Steph?
@@mcfrisko834the guy who was carrying when their shooting duo couldn't even keep up with shumpart and Jr, took game 3 dagger in front of lebron...
well if you're going by metrics and whatnot- tis probably draymond.
eye test its kd.
this video actually made me confirm that wade has a better case of goat than kd and even steph. steph just a media darling
I can't stress enough how long I was waiting for this video and I'm so happy it's during your "elaborated, hour-long, deep dive videos" period. It's been a pure enjoyment for me as the second biggest KD hater in the world.
KD gonna see this too lol
Talent wise, he might be the most talented player in NBA history. He has almost zero flaws in his game. But talent doesn't equal greatness
idk if I'll go for most ever but he is up there for sure. He is as complete as they go as a hooper/skill set
from a narrative standpoint, i really do enjoy Kevin Durant's career exactly because of these messes he has caused for himself while chasing greatness. not every nba great can or has to be a knight in shining armor, sometimes they are insecure tragic heroes as well which is something i really like about KD. he has a lot of parallels to LeBron while chasing James' shadow for so many years, like the ringless tenure with the team that drafted him, the convergence on a superteam to win two rings and then the divergence of the parallel paths, KD failing at making his own legacy while LeBron succeeded, just like cosmic antagonists.
If anything it’s a precautionary tale for future star players. This rings mentality has plagued the NBA and if it wasn’t for Bron winning outside of Miami (and that 2016 ring), Bron would be seen the same as KD in a lesser extent. Those Warriors seasons ruined the competition of the NBA and overall ruined the fan experience during those years.
It would show stars that you can enjoy those rings at the moment, but in the future it would be seen as a cop out and not as an accomplishment.
Man, those OKC teams were awesome. I really liked watching them on the playoffs, especially with the atmosphere of all the blue t-shirts that they distributed. It gave a beautiful image on the TV.
KD is already done watching this.
the thing i've always thought about durant was "what if he stayed in oakland?".
i mean, there's always talk about if he stayed loyal to okc, but to me, if he had stayed a warrior, he would have had kind of a shaq trajectory : grew to superstardom on a young and talented but not championship-caliber team, joined a championship-caliber team to finaly get the trophies he wanted (because at that point, respect and appreciation he undisputably deserved), and just bounced a bit back around on the tail end of his career after being "the guy" on a superteam. of course, like shaq, his move in itself was controversial, but i think that, like shaq, if he had stayed there, if he had been the actual engine of that dynasty, if he had struggled with the other warriors, he would have that "story".... instead, he acted like a mercenary, and the story's steph's. and guess what....curry now *is* in the goat conversation. qfd ?
2016 thunder was a championship caliber team, even 2012, because the teams in the west were all old and slow, even spurs
I really appreciate the effort and production value put into these videos. Im a KD stan and i watched through the whole hour of the video and somehow enjoyed it despite disagreeing with so many of your points. Well done Rusty, keep these videos coming
People hated so hard when I said it was always Steph’s team ….
Here we are 5 years later lol
I loved Durant as a kid I was able to get one of his autographs when he was still on OKC and he was so humble! Then he went to the warriors and broke my heart!
I also thought he was humble then, but in retrospect he may have just been quieter. Not sure if he changed personalities or just began to express himself more loudly
I hate determining individual quality or greatness at the hand of accolades or "story". It's why I hate the MVP award, or at least how it gets decided. Some amazing players will never get the credit they deserve just because they were on bad teams, and others get overhyped just because they were on good teams. But that doesn't say anything about how good they were individually. It's a team sport individual accolades shouldn't matter as much as they do
Individual accolades will always contribute to the conversation on individual greatness.
Yeah I always thought that myself. Yes a player can score 30ppg 15 assists etc. they wouldn't have those stats if it wasn't for the 4 other guys around them. In the nfl if a qb wins mvp I feel the offensive line should win along them
When commenting here make sure to watch out for KD burners
KD (legacy wise) should’ve stayed in GSW. If he would continue to make deep playoff runs and won 1-2 more rings. Yea he joined GSW, but in the meantime he literally helped solidly GS as one of the best teams of all time
Putting Kevin Garnett on the "Better than KD" list but not Tim Duncan is nasty work. 🤣
The first rusty video to show up in my feed in months and its an hour long. Fuck yes
"What haven't I done?"
Made any defensive accolades whatsoever.
He should've been a All Defense member on those Warriors teams 🤷♂️
@willgreig4077 so he never played defense any other year of his career? Maybe he should've focused on that 🤷♂️
@@mariocardenas1833 you are either normally stupid or being deliberately obtuse
@@mariocardenas1833 he's always been a plus defender lmao u think he's Luka???
thinking durant is a bad defender is an incredibly casual take
Rusty holding the ball in front of him really puts into perspective how giant nba players are
Orrr... dude is just small?
@@Remmy0930
I don't think he is though. I remember him mentioning it in a video a long time ago, if I remember right he is a bit over 6 feet tall. Which while compared to NBA players that's small, it certainly isn't compared to men in general.
I will say to @caydenlloyd2181, it doesn't really do it as much as it may seem because a sizeable portion of that difference comes from the very short distance between the camera & both the ball & Rusty himself. There are some other things that further give a distorted view compared to the view of NBA players/games, but the two other things I'm thinking of only work when combined with that short distance.
@@Remmy0930I am 6’3 230 Lmao
@rustybuckets Rusty look big holding them balls
It's almost 100% due to the illusion of a wide angle lens vs longer focal lengths you're used to on NBA TV games. Wide angle lens makes the nearer object appear much larger relative to the surroundings. Due to the court size games are shot super zoomed in which makes players seem much bigger vs the ball. If he shot this on a 85mm lens. You'd immediately see his body as broad and the ball as smaller.
i dont think kd should be in goat convos, but his mvp speech will always make himone of my fav players ever
Loved your video. Found it funny you didnt have Tim Duncan on your list of better than KD especially when using it in your video. Hes also a common top 10 name so an interesting omission. I would also say Jokic
Not only robbed us of the better version of KD carreer, but also robbed us of a boston vs LA style rivalry between the cavs and the warriors. We could have some amazing finals in 17 and 18, but instead got trashings that nobody cared about
i had just gotten into basketball in 14 and almost wanted to stop watching during the 17 and 18 season
I used to hate KD but after a post game interview against my favorite team where my team lost (utah jazz) he was humble and gave my team credit my opinion of KD changed dermaticaly. He's definitely not the goat but he deserves respect. Michael Jordan is the goat and it's not even close
not even close? 😅👀
people just hate on him and this image of a person that he isn't. Truth is that he is nothing like twitter and youtuber nerds think, they haven't seen a single one of his post game interviews because context doesn't matter to them. Glaring example is that people say he "doesn't take accountability". They clearly haven't heard him speak once
KD sold his basketball soul for 2 mickey mouse rings, the dog in him is a little chiwhawha
only 2020 is the mickey mouse ring. Call it something else lol
@@mekacrabkd rings were def micky rings
Toda felt like a good day to revisit this video
I want to say that this was truly a very well done material. Great job, regardless of what one feels about it. And I agree like 95%.
I’ll never understand why people to this very day hate on the man for making an executive move for the betterment of his future and career. The NBA is literally a job they get paid to due based off their performance and success.
Hour long KD slander video, WE ARE HERE
Slander is something that's untrue - not seeing any of that here!
Not having tim duncan higher than kd is wild
If Kevin Durant was in Space Jam he would've joined the monstars
Long format Rusty is a great Rusty. Thanks!
Steph winning in 22' is probably the biggest hit on KD's legacy
Steph had already won without Durant once prior I believe.
It shouldn’t be but yall will take anything to try to make kd look bad
@@fortynights1513some people put an asterisk on the 2015 Warriors championship. Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love were missing from the Cavs, and Steph didn’t win FMVP. 2022 put those doubts to rest.
@@ezyryder11people put asterisks on ever single ring
@@ezyryder11True, but the fact remains he was still the number one option on a championship team already
It was the right question: what makes him legendary? For Kobe it was his maniac work ethic, 81 point game, 5 titles. For MJ it was scoring, impact on the game, titles, dominance. For LBJ it is his versatility, longevity and 3-1 finals comeback. What makes Durant the goat?
The only thing that would make him into the convo is putting up 35 points a game in the 2017 Finals.
THAT'S IT.
@@captaincortez4917and no one gives a SHIT about those 🐱🧁 rings
@@captaincortez4917he is the slim reaper and former member of the iso gang
he's not really on their level. but he's gonna be considered one of the goat scorers for a long, long time
nothing about kd would be talked about maybe something makes him special is that his guy thats good at basketball just a guy he should just not force himself in these conversation and even with duncan his fundemntal and simplicity with curry the way he change the game tactically if he had won that 2021 championship can you imagine "kd won a ring with kyrie injured and james harden limping" that would've been legacy changer imo
the lighting is alot better in this video
He's the living embodiment of "if you can't beat them, join them"
All time scorer for team USA. hating on Durant is pure haterism.
As a cavs fan, that 2017 summer cap spike that basically gave the gsw a max salary spot for a team that was fully capped was a huge mistake compared to the cap smoothing period of 5 years the owners suggested. Kevin going to gsw after losing to them in 7 games in the wcf was an all-time weak move. This isn't lebron forming a new super team in miami, kevin essentially joined the existing core of a team that won 73 wins last year. He deprived basketball fans of an all time great rivarly between the warriors and cavs. It would've rivaled the celtics lakers rivalry of the 80s
It wasn't a cap spike in 2017 that got KD to the Warriors. The cap spike took place in 2016. Everybody on the warriors either had cheap extension that were signed prior to the 16 cap spike, like Curry who signed a 4 year 44 mil extension (it was so low relative to his abilities during that contract because there were concerns over his ankles after 2 major ankle injuries early in his career), or because players were still on their rookie deals. They had cap space because the cap rose the year prior and all the contracts the organization had on the books were signed prior to that rise in the cap.
Rusty making it into the goat conversation with this one 🗣️
This is such a great exploration of how we talk about greatness. I really enjoyed it.
yup.. im a KD fan and i accept most of what rusty said.. but hey he isnt retired so many things can still happen.. i can see him still playing 2-3 seasons more and if he gets 2more rings he will get past most of the top 10 players rusty listed
@@legenddaryl537team awards? Grow up.
@@brendanbloom3366 team awards?? who do you think is carrying suns this season?? KD is the only consistent guy they have.. KD always been the best player in every team he played
@@legenddaryl537 this I know. Still takes a team to win. Injuries have already cost kd championships
I like you telling stories, I do not agree with all arguments, but I always wait for new video. Greetings from Poland, oldskull hooper ;)
i feel like KD failing to make his own super teams just makes Lebron's GOAT argument that much stronger, it's not as easy as people were saying it was when Lebron did it
I always thought KD had one foot out the door already and then his verbal altercation with Draymond was the final nail in the coffin for him to leave. That’s why I never really truly bought into the narrative that Draymond “chased him out” of Golden State like many others believe.
he really did.. the guy already said it and those are facts.. what you have are speculations.. the league also has something to do about it because of the Fans getting butthurt because all of their favorite teams got kicked in the face without mercy..
this video is genius marketing for rusty, he knows this, i hope nba twitter picks it up
Yooo, how TF is Tim Duncan not on that list?? 52:17 Especially with Garnett and Dirk on the list. Nothing against them but in an apples-to-apples comp he’s clearly ahead. Am I crazy?
he said he forgot in the pinned comment loool
I love the logical approach to encapsulate everything that makes basketball great. This is a valuable video from the perspective of sports but also in terms of contributing to how people view a discipline. Love it
I also feel like the '22 Warriors chip damaged KD's perception even more. It drove home the point thar Curry & Co didn't need KD before, and they didn't need him after.
Who else was reccomended this video after KD was SWEPT in the first round
He’s had a very good career, but his prime is over in my opinion.
Also, did KD push for his front office to trade for Beal?
@@fortynights1513Many people claim he did, but it was never confirmed.
"Leadership" and a Kobe image is WILD.
@@maninwater5615 That Kobe was a selfish psychopath until he got old and finally matured?
My guy Rusty said it with his chest
During the mid-2010s I grew up in the East Bay and I almost never really heard much about Durant. Everyone in town loved the warriors but it was always about the splash brothers and especially Steph. He was a good player but he didn't have the electricity of a superstar and most people weren't talking about him even as he won 2 rings. Steph will always be the hero here and he's pretty much universally beloved. I'm not gonna compare them because I'm not knowledgeable enough, just the feelings I have growing up as a warriors fan
This gives off "How KD Sold His Basketball Soul" vibes. Idk if that vid inspired this, but hats off for taking it further.
I like how u talk about the wide margin between the top 1%. LeBron, Kobe, & MJ can't even see KD in their respective rear views.
KD used to be my favorite player growing up. July 4th, 2016 was genuinely devastating.
I agree KD being in the GOAT convo is ludicrous, and delusional. However, I'm definitely not a hater. He's done amazing things in his career. He's a special, special talent. One of the best one-on-one offensive scorer's this game's ever seen. And I think in 2019 (before his season-ending achilles injury), he was widely considered to be the best player in the world at the time. You could still argue LeBron at that time (LeBron was better in 2018), but KD (I think) had a legitimate claim at a point in time as being the best player (at that particular moment in time) as being the best player in the world. However, that has definitely changed, and he's never been the best player in the world since. And he's DEFINITELY not in the GOAT convo, I don't think he's even top 10 all-time. Mayyybbeee top 20.
Yeh I’ve got him around 18-25, I’d have to think through the entire list as I usually just focus on the top 10 but I don’t see him going any higher than 18, maybe 17 at absolute best
per 100 possession doesnt matter if it only applied in their peaks.. the problem with most of the top players you listed they dont have the same longevity as durant.. durant at 35 still average 28-29ppg.. from rookie year up to his current 15th season he still the same if not even better.. MJ is the only guy much better than KD in scoring but the problem is KD isnt retired.. if he plays 5 more season KD can still be considered better scorer than MJ
he needs to be a better scorer than a lot of guys to get close to mj. First he needs to pass guys like kobe and bron
@@pedrocordeiro304 he is way better scorer than both players you said.. kobe and lebron would only dream of having durants shooting ability.. MJ is different he is the GOAT for a reason
@@legenddaryl537scoring is only one part though. He might be a better scorer than Kobe and LeBron, but he ain't close to being a better player than them.
Great video! Really enjoying the new direction of your channel!
Rusty channel getting recommended to me again after 5-6 months? Basketball season must fr be here now
I love KD so much, he is a super hardworking individual that has perfected his craft. Wether it’s all his fault or not, this all began cause of increased salary cap that allowed the warriors to get him. Yeah he maybe would’ve gone somewhere else at some other point, but I just wish this Mf was born in 1962. He is a unicorn that yes is shaped by todays game but is also a truly unique basketball talent. To see him get drafted in the 80s and most likely stay on a team forever would change his legacy so much, he just got caught up with the impatient mindset present in the NBA nowadays. While I hate how his career has turned out, I love his craft more, and I’ll always consider him on the best players of all time.
Agreed. And as much as he even ended up burning the Warriors you gotta give the man credit. And he is not a bad guy. So much it's really sad to even have to say that about him. The mistakes most people make actually hurt people and KD is just a basketball player trying to 'do him'. When people want to flame at entitled arseholes or bad humans who are just good at basketball they need to leave KD out of those conversations. Not that this video did anything like that but... in general "hating on KD" is a lot easier to do than it should be. Far easier.
Kd is to rusty what lebron is to skip
One hour video just to state a very simple thing: only a handful of players can be in the GOAT conversation and Kevin Durant isn't one of them.
He had to prove the point he’s the biggest hater
Kevin Durant is a cupcake
I thought I was the only person that noticed these things. You just got a new subscriber for this banger of a video
goat conversation besides i think kd coming back from a torn achilles with little to no drop off of play needs to be talked about more.
KD has done more for the NBA and OKC than most people would think
Ok kd burner
@@arthurthesecond202 youre 12 years old you werent conscious when he was there
@@shadagan2779 what are you on about mate
Ofcourse
@@arthurthesecond202 gave 9 seasons and got back sefolosha, kendrick perkins, and dropper russ
Here is the thing:
If the team you joined was now so loaded that they had to put their NBA FINALS MVP from only 2 years prior on the bench to accommodate you... then yeah you will get no respect especially if you haven't won without said team.
Imagine joining a team that already won a ring before you. You leave. And then they win another one after you leave. Ouch bro
This is gonna feed families
Bros a professional hater 💀