Owen, the cost of building such self contained homes with all costs included from engineering to completion can be as low as $310/sf. So building 4 x 1,000 sf units can be done with as little as $1.25M not including land price. Assuming land around $2M, the total delivery cost would be around $3.25M, making each unit around $850K. Not bad for a new fairly well specd house. If you are interested, I can connect you with construction companies which can do this at the price mentioned.
A lot of people are moving to east vancouver because it is cheaper than west . But ppl can access downtown quick, still see mountain view, and good access to Burnaby, very middle location .
Uytae Lee made a short video about more communal housing that could be a trend moving forward. More shared spaces like large communal kitchen and laundry areas with private living room/bedroom set up. I could see this being a perfect fit for this new zoning that will keep building costs down and bring a bit more community to neighbourhoods. Would be interested to see if this pans out.
Where are people going to park? We had water shortages in the past few years...more to come! What a noise in the neighborhood 😳. Scary 😨 times. Torn up streets look awful too for all that new piping.
it's very similar to when we lived in Dunbar and went to UBC in the 90's. Houses full of students who partied and annoyed neighbours. Parked all over the place and didn't care
I think that why city has added costs to builder to make water sewage and pipe under new build. That why the housing costs will be higher and more expensive . It will be smaller units but cheaper price. It will be normal trend In big city.
I agree that on a standard sized lot we won’t see many multiplexes go up but it may make sense on larger lots. We have a 6500 sqft lot which we initially intended to build a duplex on. Now we’re able to build a 5-plex. Most units will be closer to 1400sqft with 3bdrms so it’s a completely different market to those looking for condos. I do agree that it’s difficult to estimate costs which has been the most frustrating part but getting 30% more FSR is huge! Also the carport vs garage will likely deter some buyers.
I have spoken with several more builders/ investors all of them have told me they want to see some other builders go first on these to evaluate how profitable if any these projects might be. Most are pretty skeptical at this point. 1400sq ft 3 bedroom would probably need to be sold for at least $1.5mil plus GST. At this price you are competing with high quality concrete condos in downtown core with tons of amenities like concierge, security, gym etc and parking.
There is a duplex of 1500 sq. ft each unit being built next to me at 34' high. It's very big. Apparently, the new multiplex will be 37' high and with an additional 1000 sq.ft house on the property, I can't imagine how that will feel. I'm wondering how this monster being built next to me is going to influence my single-family home price? Given this, I started investigating building a 3-unit with a coach house on my 33x124.5 lot. I received a cost of approximately $450 sq.ft all in, which I know is on the high-end but I have some control over that with what finishings etc I select. Still need to make it posh though. What's making me want to wait is the unknown of the "rough" possible selling price of these units. You can't use a duplex/condo/townhome per. sq. ft. price as it's a totally different animal. As you said in your video Owen it's too early to tell. There are way too many unknowns but if this eventually takes off it will undoubtedly have a profound effect on the visual landscape of neighbourhoods.
Hi Owen, how do the numbers work for 3 families pooling in resources to buy a lot and build three 1500 sqft townhomes? Since the plan is to build and live there do you think it would save us money VS each buying a fully built townhome?
Not sure if you can build townhomes? Pooling 2 or 3 buyers might be an option .. i have seen this done with building a duplex. Make sure you get a lawyer and draft a detailed agreement with the other purchasers. These are going to be very complicated and take time to build and get approved. Lot's can go wrong. Personally i would avoid pooling funds with other buyers to build one of these. I would rather buy the finished and tangible product on my own.
The lowest cost of building a new home with all costs, fees, taxes, and expense included is around $310/sq-ft, so about $465k for a 1,500 sqft house (not including land price). I know this because I’ve spoken to many builders over the past several months to see what I can do for the old property which I own.
These things are going to require a development permit… which is going to take time and increase holding costs . Possibly your going to need an architect since designers can only do max 2 units . Architects are going to take longer to design . All these holding costs why not just keep doing duplexes where you don’t have to deal with DPs and architects…
What Small builder will bother to build a Multplex for similar profit as he could achieve with a Single house. Plus With a multiplex the builder will have to sweat through 6 + individual sales... NOT just one. As for rentals what Fool would want to be a landlord with the current Rental regulations. Just another "solution' invented /promoted by Inept 'Planners'
I’ve done some back of napkin calculations on building and selling one of these and the numbers just don’t add up. First off you have to pay a density bonus to the city if you want the 1.0 FSR. Then you have to include a rainwater collector because there won’t be enough permeable land and a transformer pad because of all the extra electricity usage. Who knows how much those will cost. Then as Owen and others mentioned, you need 4-6 kitchens, bathrooms and laundry. On top of that with 4-6 units you have the added complexity of setting up the strata and figuring out the common spaces etc plus you have to use an architect. I think just sticking with duplexes is much simpler, offers about the same profit from what I can tell, and is actually the type of housing we need (3 bedroom, 1400+ sqft). We don’t need more condo type units, we have enough of those in more desirable places like downtown where you really don’t need a car. Because these multiplexes don’t require on site parking, the streets will be flooded with cars… I just don’t see the benefit for builders or buyers in doing 4-6 unit stratas with only 1.0 FSR on single family lots, but hopefully I’ll be proven wrong!
Thanks for the input about the density bonus and rainwater collectors . As with everything it's not that straightforward of a build. I more i learn about these multiplexes the more confused i am.
Ontario here: nobody is going to build this stuff. Development charges, city inspection/permit delays make it unaffordable. Plain and simple. We’re almost empty nesters and would happily convert the basement to an apartment, but the hassle - including the possibility of a dreaded 1 year long Landlord Tenant Board fiasco - of dealing with the city just isn’t worth the income or the benefit it would provide. So I sit on more house than I need while politicians pat themselves on the back for enacting legislation no one will benefit from.
Agree.. nobody here in Vancouver is building 4 plex or a rental 6 plex which i believe the owner would need to rent 2 of the units out below market rates LOL! You would have to be out of your mind to risk that kind of capital $4-5 Million + to build one of these and get into business with the NDP and provide rental housing. Far far better options out there If you want to be an investor in Vancouver
Owen, the cost of building such self contained homes with all costs included from engineering to completion can be as low as $310/sf.
So building 4 x 1,000 sf units can be done with as little as $1.25M not including land price.
Assuming land around $2M, the total delivery cost would be around $3.25M, making each unit around $850K.
Not bad for a new fairly well specd house.
If you are interested, I can connect you with construction companies which can do this at the price mentioned.
Good Job Owen! Thank you for all Your Great Insights! 👍🏻👏 🙏
It's great for those owners who bought those vancouver specials in the early 500k days
A lot of people are moving to east vancouver because it is cheaper than west . But ppl can access downtown quick, still see mountain view, and good access to Burnaby, very middle location .
Uytae Lee made a short video about more communal housing that could be a trend moving forward. More shared spaces like large communal kitchen and laundry areas with private living room/bedroom set up. I could see this being a perfect fit for this new zoning that will keep building costs down and bring a bit more community to neighbourhoods. Would be interested to see if this pans out.
Where are people going to park? We had water shortages in the past few years...more to come! What a noise in the neighborhood 😳. Scary 😨 times. Torn up streets look awful too for all that new piping.
it's very similar to when we lived in Dunbar and went to UBC in the 90's. Houses full of students who partied and annoyed neighbours. Parked all over the place and didn't care
I think that why city has added costs to builder to make water sewage and pipe under new build. That why the housing costs will be higher and more expensive . It will be smaller units but cheaper price. It will be normal trend
In big city.
Cities need to grow. If it’s the change that you don’t like, I’m sorry to say that it’s you that should move. Don’t waste time blocking progress.
I agree that on a standard sized lot we won’t see many multiplexes go up but it may make sense on larger lots. We have a 6500 sqft lot which we initially intended to build a duplex on. Now we’re able to build a 5-plex. Most units will be closer to 1400sqft with 3bdrms so it’s a completely different market to those looking for condos. I do agree that it’s difficult to estimate costs which has been the most frustrating part but getting 30% more FSR is huge! Also the carport vs garage will likely deter some buyers.
I have spoken with several more builders/ investors all of them have told me they want to see some other builders go first on these to evaluate how profitable if any these projects might be. Most are pretty skeptical at this point. 1400sq ft 3 bedroom would probably need to be sold for at least $1.5mil plus GST. At this price you are competing with high quality concrete condos in downtown core with tons of amenities like concierge, security, gym etc and parking.
There is a duplex of 1500 sq. ft each unit being built next to me at 34' high. It's very big. Apparently, the new multiplex will be 37' high and with an additional 1000 sq.ft house on the property, I can't imagine how that will feel. I'm wondering how this monster being built next to me is going to influence my single-family home price? Given this, I started investigating building a 3-unit with a coach house on my 33x124.5 lot. I received a cost of approximately $450 sq.ft all in, which I know is on the high-end but I have some control over that with what finishings etc I select. Still need to make it posh though. What's making me want to wait is the unknown of the "rough" possible selling price of these units. You can't use a duplex/condo/townhome per. sq. ft. price as it's a totally different animal. As you said in your video Owen it's too early to tell. There are way too many unknowns but if this eventually takes off it will undoubtedly have a profound effect on the visual landscape of neighbourhoods.
Thanks for this excellent summary and great analysis
Hi Owen, how do the numbers work for 3 families pooling in resources to buy a lot and build three 1500 sqft townhomes? Since the plan is to build and live there do you think it would save us money VS each buying a fully built townhome?
Not sure if you can build townhomes? Pooling 2 or 3 buyers might be an option .. i have seen this done with building a duplex. Make sure you get a lawyer and draft a detailed agreement with the other purchasers. These are going to be very complicated and take time to build and get approved. Lot's can go wrong. Personally i would avoid pooling funds with other buyers to build one of these. I would rather buy the finished and tangible product on my own.
The lowest cost of building a new home with all costs, fees, taxes, and expense included is around $310/sq-ft, so about $465k for a 1,500 sqft house (not including land price).
I know this because I’ve spoken to many builders over the past several months to see what I can do for the old property which I own.
What if I own the land, do you think a joint venture with a builder would help?
Now the owner automatically can up his asking price by $100,000 because the property is zoned for multiplexes.
NIMBY effect? I wonder will all be on with this in the neighbourhoods?
These things are going to require a development permit… which is going to take time and increase holding costs . Possibly your going to need an architect since designers can only do max 2 units . Architects are going to take longer to design . All these holding costs why not just keep doing duplexes where you don’t have to deal with DPs and architects…
Agree these are going to be very complicated to build
An architect is only required beyond 4 units.
City will probably increase property tax to reflect higher density
What Small builder will bother to build a Multplex for similar profit as he could achieve with a Single house.
Plus With a multiplex the builder will have to sweat through 6 + individual sales... NOT just one.
As for rentals what Fool would want to be a landlord with the current Rental regulations.
Just another "solution' invented /promoted by Inept 'Planners'
Guess they can jack up assessment value of all these upgraded zone properties to best use and force owners to pay high property taxes to rebuild
I’ve done some back of napkin calculations on building and selling one of these and the numbers just don’t add up. First off you have to pay a density bonus to the city if you want the 1.0 FSR. Then you have to include a rainwater collector because there won’t be enough permeable land and a transformer pad because of all the extra electricity usage. Who knows how much those will cost. Then as Owen and others mentioned, you need 4-6 kitchens, bathrooms and laundry. On top of that with 4-6 units you have the added complexity of setting up the strata and figuring out the common spaces etc plus you have to use an architect. I think just sticking with duplexes is much simpler, offers about the same profit from what I can tell, and is actually the type of housing we need (3 bedroom, 1400+ sqft). We don’t need more condo type units, we have enough of those in more desirable places like downtown where you really don’t need a car. Because these multiplexes don’t require on site parking, the streets will be flooded with cars… I just don’t see the benefit for builders or buyers in doing 4-6 unit stratas with only 1.0 FSR on single family lots, but hopefully I’ll be proven wrong!
Thanks for the input about the density bonus and rainwater collectors . As with everything it's not that straightforward of a build. I more i learn about these multiplexes the more confused i am.
@@OwenBiglandthis document has all the details: council.vancouver.ca/20230725/documents/rr2.pdf
Depends on the homeowner, and when they buy their land for some, the numbers will work out.
I would think $550-$600/sf to build
Can be done with as little as $310/sf ALL costs included (engineering permitting, fees taxes etc)
Ontario here: nobody is going to build this stuff. Development charges, city inspection/permit delays make it unaffordable. Plain and simple. We’re almost empty nesters and would happily convert the basement to an apartment, but the hassle - including the possibility of a dreaded 1 year long Landlord Tenant Board fiasco - of dealing with the city just isn’t worth the income or the benefit it would provide. So I sit on more house than I need while politicians pat themselves on the back for enacting legislation no one will benefit from.
Agree.. nobody here in Vancouver is building 4 plex or a rental 6 plex which i believe the owner would need to rent 2 of the units out below market rates LOL! You would have to be out of your mind to risk that kind of capital $4-5 Million + to build one of these and get into business with the NDP and provide rental housing. Far far better options out there If you want to be an investor in Vancouver
Tear down those newer houses...Great for the environment.
?