Technically goodyear welting wasn't done with the gamming. The gamming is an invention of the 40s/50s. Goodyear welting was done with a machine that made two cuts at a shallow angle on the bottom of the insole along the edge so that two flaps of leather could be pulled up to stitch the uppers and the welt to (same purpose as the gamming). Viberg has managed to find a couple of those machines from waaay back and i believe has some line of boots made that way. In the 60s and 70s Nettleton's had a line of shoes (the traditional iirc) made the same way too.
Yea that's true, but for most companies today, this is how it's done so it's better for me to explain it this way for people who are new. But yeah its cool that viberg does channeled insoles
You missed the most important thing, dude... - the right shoe and the left shoe. The main thing here is not to confuse. If you put your left shoe on your right foot and vice versa they'll get you...
this video really needed to be made because there are a lot of people that talk up certain boots but dont know what they are missing. its fine to like something but we do need some objective standards and its sad that the internet hates objective reality, it would be much healthier to say i love boots but i get off here price wise. the white kloud boots are so freaking hot man i want a pair. but the station i get off at is red wing beckman 9011s i just dont need more than that shoe. the difference could get me an entire outfit at corlection.
Thanks very much! I agree. Something being objectively better doesn't mean you have to like it. For example, I'd rather drive a 1957 Chevy Bel Air than a new Porsche 911, but I'd be an idiot if I said the Chevy was an objectively better car. It's not even close. Preferences are great, but it's important to differentiate fact from preference.
Towards the end, yes that kilty on your wife's boot is called a kilty. However, it is a no-show or casual version there. The fringe is more of a country or work boot thing which is not preferred by everybody. Ask Dale after all, he sells some that he makes.
According to the guy who owned Kulien (made custom shoes for loggers), a shoe is anything with laces, a boot is anything with no laces. One of the things he’s very particular about.
One question about the Flame Panda construction - isn´t it the same handsewn stitchdown construction White´s uses on their boots? They make a channel into the insole and then sew a welt on. The upper material is turned to the outside and then sewn together with the welt to the outsole.
Hey man….always looking forward to your next videos. Any how, which boot do you think is higher quality and value for money, grant stone or bordon from Colombia? Thanks man.
I think you triggered all the boot nerds lol. Thanks for this, and I watched the whole thing. You left out some dress boot styles, but you don't wear them so who cares 😁. I would like to add that regular Blake versus Blake Rapid are two different animals. While I get why a lot of Italian shoemakers use Blake stitch to get that super thin and tight slipper-like outsole, I prefer a more rugged look. Blake Rapid hybrid is a slight improvement, and more weather durable, since the outsole is sewn on to the mid-sole, like a welted shoe. I've had a few pair of boots with this construction, and they had Commando soles or Vibram 705s. They were also completely resoleable.
Yes you're right I should have made that distinction. The issue is that there's no way I was going to get everything and this is meant for new people, not seasoned nerds like us haha
I'm going to Japan in November and I'm planning on buying white Kloud boots, do you have any tips regarding the purchasing aspect of the boots? also, do i have to wait for open orders if I'm going in person?
Your strict position on some things can be a little off putting. For example, you say that White Kloud is handmade, whereas, for example Grant Stone is not. Isn't this line very fuzzy? White Kloud (I think) still uses a sewing machine for the uppers and uses other tools such as skivers and cutters. Even if these aren't electric, they are still machines. The line here is quite arbitrary. You say very strongly that it should just be called a welt, not a Goodyear welt, but if so many people are calling the strip a Goodyear welt, then hasn't the language changed? Similarly, you say that handwelting is not a form of Goodyear welting, but in the modern day it kind of is, no? The "default" is Goodyear welting, and handwelting is an "upgrade" over this, despite what came first historically. I agree with a lot of these points you make, but I think it's important to be flexible as well. There are various technical details one could correct you on as well (for example, a mini-lug sole is generally the name given to a much lower profile lug sole, like ones Alden use or the Vibram 430, not the inset lug or commando style sole you showed). I think acknowledging the many ways things are named and that there is no set convention (but that some names are considered more correct) would be a more honest way to present this video, especially for newcomers.
There is a major line between hand welted boots and boots that are not hand welted. Also, a major difference between being hand lasted and hand cut leather. There are absolutely certain boots that are far more handmade than others. Also, I do not agree that we should just accept people using the wrong terminology. And if I did say mini lug when I meant full lug, I apologize. That is a mistake on my part. I'm quite open to being corrected. I'm rigid in my belief that there are correct and incorrect terms and information, but I am always open to being corrected and proven wrong. Thanks 👍
@@almostvintagestyle I definitely agree with you that there is a major difference between these things, but my point was just that the distinction is arbitrary, not that its meaningless. I also think the definition of "right" terminology changes with time. To be clear, I agree with you on your definitions. I didn't mean to correct you to say you are wrong - I just meant it as an example, because I have seen others also call any inset lug pattern a mini lug sole. I just think it is good to be flexible as well. For example, who are we to correct a bootmaker making amazing boots if they call something a cuban heel when it's actually a dogger heel? The line of correct and incorrect can be fuzzy, and while there are terms that are generally more accepted to be correct, I think it's good to acknowledge this rather than taking such a prescriptivist approach. That said, this was a great video overall. I just wanted to give you my thoughts on this.
I think it might be more prudent to distinguish boots between assembly line made boots and handmade boots. Both are made by both people and machine but the former has multiple people assembling multiple boots at once following a template for production with little or no input from the designer while the latter has one person overseeing each stage of the process with full input (iron boots come to mind) or a single person overseeing all stages who may or may not have assistants (Indonesian makers/bespoke makers). The point here is that the handmade boot criteria has someone who has full input over how a boot should be cut, lasted and stitched while the the assembly line made boot forever follows a template. Here comes another example that makes the water even more muddy. Oak Street Bootmakers clearly have the designer and the manufacturer in distinct separation. The designer decides the leather, the last, the assembly and the soles etc but the producer is an outsourced craftsman who handlasts their boots so he has full input over how to last the leather but not much else unless he wants to spend the time giving the designer feedback (which he does judging by the interviews OSB did) On goodyear welting, I have to disagree there. If you google goodyear welts, it still comes back as the technique first and foremost. I have only seen the welt being coloqually referred to as a flat welt due to its distinct look as compared to stormwelts or splitwelts. I have also seen instances where the same flat welt look is also used to refer to blake stitched shoes with decorative leather welts. Hand welting however is not something that can be distinguished visually from the exterior I think. I remember the difference between handwelted and goodyear welted being how the insole/lasting board is attached to the uppers and then the midsole. It's very different from the streamlined goodyear welting and requires a lot more work. It's distinct enough that I don't think you can say goodyear welting is just machine "handwelting" for example. As far as my limited knowledge goes, I don't think either technique translates to the other. Goodyear welting should be a machine based alternative to how tedious handwelting was instead of a machine equivalent, exchanging time saved in production for some extra quality afforded by handwelting. However, it seems like using a machine to do stitchdown construction is a direct upgrade over doing it by hand as they are pretty much equivalent based on what I heard from some accounts.
@cheekibreeki9155 totally fair on the difference between Goodyear and hand welt. It could be different enough to make them more distinct. But for introductory purposes, it's easier to explain it that way to most people
@subhasish-m totally fair point and I appreciate it. We may have to agree to disagree here as I do not think that's arbitrary, but I can certainly understand your position on it. I do agree that the differences between some things are arbitrary though like Cuban vs. Dogger heel
"Everything you need to know about boots" is technically incorrect as you dont even explain Norwegian welt. Also, you speak as if you talk factually but you share your subjective opinions about many things. Do with this comment as you wish and have a good day.
I mean, I think you're trying to "get me." Obviously, this isn't every piece of information about boots. It's meant as an introduction and explaining Norwegian welt is unnecessary.
I am just disputing your claims that when you consider an argument serves your purchase or justification you label it as factual or objective and when not you disregard it. In this case, Norwegian welts are a type of welt some people might be interested in learning yet not covering it in the video but calling it "everything you need to know..." is inaccurate. Could be sumed up as "practice what you preach", if you will.
Understanding the difference between a shoe and a boot….😂😂😂😂…..I spat my wine out!!!
Oh no I hope you weren't drinking anything too nice! 🤣
First joke actually made me laugh. I needed that, thanks mate.
Technically goodyear welting wasn't done with the gamming. The gamming is an invention of the 40s/50s. Goodyear welting was done with a machine that made two cuts at a shallow angle on the bottom of the insole along the edge so that two flaps of leather could be pulled up to stitch the uppers and the welt to (same purpose as the gamming).
Viberg has managed to find a couple of those machines from waaay back and i believe has some line of boots made that way.
In the 60s and 70s Nettleton's had a line of shoes (the traditional iirc) made the same way too.
Yea that's true, but for most companies today, this is how it's done so it's better for me to explain it this way for people who are new. But yeah its cool that viberg does channeled insoles
You missed the most important thing, dude... - the right shoe and the left shoe. The main thing here is not to confuse. If you put your left shoe on your right foot and vice versa they'll get you...
this video really needed to be made because there are a lot of people that talk up certain boots but dont know what they are missing. its fine to like something but we do need some objective standards and its sad that the internet hates objective reality, it would be much healthier to say i love boots but i get off here price wise. the white kloud boots are so freaking hot man i want a pair. but the station i get off at is red wing beckman 9011s i just dont need more than that shoe. the difference could get me an entire outfit at corlection.
Thanks very much! I agree. Something being objectively better doesn't mean you have to like it. For example, I'd rather drive a 1957 Chevy Bel Air than a new Porsche 911, but I'd be an idiot if I said the Chevy was an objectively better car. It's not even close. Preferences are great, but it's important to differentiate fact from preference.
great collection wear in good health and God bless
Just started the video, but what is your belt? Have you talked about belts before? It looks so good
Man i might wanna add an engineer boot to my collection now.
Great! 👍🏻 So entertaining!! 😊
Thank you so much!
Roper boots are a type of cowboy boot with a lower heel block. Back in the day they were often worn while roping calves/cattle hence the name roper.
Towards the end, yes that kilty on your wife's boot is called a kilty. However, it is a no-show or casual version there. The fringe is more of a country or work boot thing which is not preferred by everybody. Ask Dale after all, he sells some that he makes.
Yeah good point. I've also heard other names for it when it doesn't have the fringe, but I think you're right
Kilte.., yea,, or you can just generalize and call it the 'false tongue'
According to the guy who owned Kulien (made custom shoes for loggers), a shoe is anything with laces, a boot is anything with no laces. One of the things he’s very particular about.
Nice rjb shirt!
Thanks! One of my favorite shirts!
Thanks Jake
Thank you!
One question about the Flame Panda construction - isn´t it the same handsewn stitchdown construction White´s uses on their boots? They make a channel into the insole and then sew a welt on. The upper material is turned to the outside and then sewn together with the welt to the outsole.
Yep. Flame Panda didn't invent that.
Fantastic Boot collection. Greetings from Ireland.
Thanks very much! I appreciate it
Hey man….always looking forward to your next videos.
Any how, which boot do you think is higher quality and value for money, grant stone or bordon from Colombia?
Thanks man.
I'm biased, but from the reviews I've seen, it looks pretty clear that Grant stone is the answer
Great video super informative. This is perfect for 99.9% of people out there. No need to nitpick here…🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Thanks! I appreciate that!
Hey Jake, do Lofgrens have a McKay stitch? That decorative loop stitch is what I'm referring to.
I don't believe these have a McKay stitch, but you could ask John himself. He'd happily explain!
I need slip resistance rubber soles no matter what. 430 v700, newporter, longhaul for life.
Yeah 430 is good for that. Probably my favorite grippy sole
Do you have any favorite slippers or indoor shoes?
I mostly wear my old rainbows as slippers haha
Do you prefer a structured or unstructured toe box?
Another great video btw!
It depends on the type of boot. For most lace up boots, structured, but for engineers, unstructured.
And thank you!
I think you triggered all the boot nerds lol. Thanks for this, and I watched the whole thing. You left out some dress boot styles, but you don't wear them so who cares 😁. I would like to add that regular Blake versus Blake Rapid are two different animals. While I get why a lot of Italian shoemakers use Blake stitch to get that super thin and tight slipper-like outsole, I prefer a more rugged look. Blake Rapid hybrid is a slight improvement, and more weather durable, since the outsole is sewn on to the mid-sole, like a welted shoe. I've had a few pair of boots with this construction, and they had Commando soles or Vibram 705s. They were also completely resoleable.
Yes you're right I should have made that distinction. The issue is that there's no way I was going to get everything and this is meant for new people, not seasoned nerds like us haha
I'm going to Japan in November and I'm planning on buying white Kloud boots, do you have any tips regarding the purchasing aspect of the boots? also, do i have to wait for open orders if I'm going in person?
Just make sure you contact him on ig before.
@@almostvintagestyle thanks
He stopped orders recently, but will be reopening before you go, so see if you can secure a spot
Blue shell monkey boots are crazy
Yeah I love those. My favorite of my wife's boots
which boots were shown at 38:42, i kind of wanna get them
also are they the same boots as the ones shown at 40:10 ?
they look to me like the nicks becca boot
@@seedubhuntx i seee
It's a pair of Nick's women's boots. It's a pair of my wife's boots
@@almostvintagestyle ahh i see, what makes them specifically women’s boots?
Your strict position on some things can be a little off putting. For example, you say that White Kloud is handmade, whereas, for example Grant Stone is not. Isn't this line very fuzzy? White Kloud (I think) still uses a sewing machine for the uppers and uses other tools such as skivers and cutters. Even if these aren't electric, they are still machines. The line here is quite arbitrary.
You say very strongly that it should just be called a welt, not a Goodyear welt, but if so many people are calling the strip a Goodyear welt, then hasn't the language changed? Similarly, you say that handwelting is not a form of Goodyear welting, but in the modern day it kind of is, no? The "default" is Goodyear welting, and handwelting is an "upgrade" over this, despite what came first historically.
I agree with a lot of these points you make, but I think it's important to be flexible as well. There are various technical details one could correct you on as well (for example, a mini-lug sole is generally the name given to a much lower profile lug sole, like ones Alden use or the Vibram 430, not the inset lug or commando style sole you showed). I think acknowledging the many ways things are named and that there is no set convention (but that some names are considered more correct) would be a more honest way to present this video, especially for newcomers.
There is a major line between hand welted boots and boots that are not hand welted. Also, a major difference between being hand lasted and hand cut leather. There are absolutely certain boots that are far more handmade than others. Also, I do not agree that we should just accept people using the wrong terminology. And if I did say mini lug when I meant full lug, I apologize. That is a mistake on my part. I'm quite open to being corrected. I'm rigid in my belief that there are correct and incorrect terms and information, but I am always open to being corrected and proven wrong. Thanks 👍
@@almostvintagestyle I definitely agree with you that there is a major difference between these things, but my point was just that the distinction is arbitrary, not that its meaningless.
I also think the definition of "right" terminology changes with time. To be clear, I agree with you on your definitions. I didn't mean to correct you to say you are wrong - I just meant it as an example, because I have seen others also call any inset lug pattern a mini lug sole. I just think it is good to be flexible as well. For example, who are we to correct a bootmaker making amazing boots if they call something a cuban heel when it's actually a dogger heel? The line of correct and incorrect can be fuzzy, and while there are terms that are generally more accepted to be correct, I think it's good to acknowledge this rather than taking such a prescriptivist approach.
That said, this was a great video overall. I just wanted to give you my thoughts on this.
I think it might be more prudent to distinguish boots between assembly line made boots and handmade boots. Both are made by both people and machine but the former has multiple people assembling multiple boots at once following a template for production with little or no input from the designer while the latter has one person overseeing each stage of the process with full input (iron boots come to mind) or a single person overseeing all stages who may or may not have assistants (Indonesian makers/bespoke makers). The point here is that the handmade boot criteria has someone who has full input over how a boot should be cut, lasted and stitched while the the assembly line made boot forever follows a template. Here comes another example that makes the water even more muddy. Oak Street Bootmakers clearly have the designer and the manufacturer in distinct separation. The designer decides the leather, the last, the assembly and the soles etc but the producer is an outsourced craftsman who handlasts their boots so he has full input over how to last the leather but not much else unless he wants to spend the time giving the designer feedback (which he does judging by the interviews OSB did)
On goodyear welting, I have to disagree there. If you google goodyear welts, it still comes back as the technique first and foremost. I have only seen the welt being coloqually referred to as a flat welt due to its distinct look as compared to stormwelts or splitwelts. I have also seen instances where the same flat welt look is also used to refer to blake stitched shoes with decorative leather welts. Hand welting however is not something that can be distinguished visually from the exterior I think. I remember the difference between handwelted and goodyear welted being how the insole/lasting board is attached to the uppers and then the midsole. It's very different from the streamlined goodyear welting and requires a lot more work. It's distinct enough that I don't think you can say goodyear welting is just machine "handwelting" for example. As far as my limited knowledge goes, I don't think either technique translates to the other. Goodyear welting should be a machine based alternative to how tedious handwelting was instead of a machine equivalent, exchanging time saved in production for some extra quality afforded by handwelting.
However, it seems like using a machine to do stitchdown construction is a direct upgrade over doing it by hand as they are pretty much equivalent based on what I heard from some accounts.
@cheekibreeki9155 totally fair on the difference between Goodyear and hand welt. It could be different enough to make them more distinct. But for introductory purposes, it's easier to explain it that way to most people
@subhasish-m totally fair point and I appreciate it. We may have to agree to disagree here as I do not think that's arbitrary, but I can certainly understand your position on it. I do agree that the differences between some things are arbitrary though like Cuban vs. Dogger heel
"Everything you need to know about boots" is technically incorrect as you dont even explain Norwegian welt.
Also, you speak as if you talk factually but you share your subjective opinions about many things.
Do with this comment as you wish and have a good day.
I mean, I think you're trying to "get me." Obviously, this isn't every piece of information about boots. It's meant as an introduction and explaining Norwegian welt is unnecessary.
@@almostvintagestyle Oh, so not "everything"? th-cam.com/video/IN68Ws_y8es/w-d-xo.html
I am just disputing your claims that when you consider an argument serves your purchase or justification you label it as factual or objective and when not you disregard it.
In this case, Norwegian welts are a type of welt some people might be interested in learning yet not covering it in the video but calling it "everything you need to know..." is inaccurate.
Could be sumed up as "practice what you preach", if you will.