After talking to multiple OEM's and pretty much every single one of them told me that imported Japanese VG10 is not possible (Anymore), but 10cr15comov is a Chinese equivalent to the Japanese VG10. Some OEM's told me that VG10 export is banned, so pretty much exclusive to Japan and the knife makers in Japan. Like you all know, when you guys asked in the comment sections if it was the real Japanese VG10, I always said that I have my doubts or the heat treatment was not on par with Japanese-made VG10. This pretty much confirms why and why I have pushed AUS10 over VG10 a lot more when it comes to knives made in China. 10cr15comov would not be bad steel if heat-treated correctly. It will indeed sit between VG10 and AUS10.
I loved your reviews. Very detail and non biased. I am going with the 6.5 keemake aus10 . Will let you know how it works. I have bought the 6.5 sunnecko VG10 version and it was very sharp initially, but retention seems on the lower end. Still very good knife for the price of 65 CAD
@ChefPanko, regarding the brand you recommend, is the claimed damascus knives sell by chinese Xinzou brand also not made from layered steel (damascus)?
@@syafiqrahim9378 Xinzuo sells multiple knives in terms of layered Xinzuo has a layered knife. The layers give it a Damascus look and are just for aesthetics, the cladding however does serve a purpose. So they are layered steel to create the Damascus pattern. As far as I'm aware is that Xinzuo does not sell ''edged in'' or ''lasered'' patterned knives. So each knife may have the same pattern but will look different on each version you get.
@@chefpanko After watching your "How to choose a good Nakiri knife" and hearing your explanation that many japanese knife have cladding as aesthetics, then I watch this one review (The Secret Line to Look For When Buying a Japanese Kitchen Knife by Knife and Stone channel) about japanese metal work, "sanmai"/3-layer metalwork where hard steel acts as knife core and its edge, while soft steel as its jacket on both sides (cladding), now I clearly understand why you said it is just for aesthetic, easily to get scratches and does not affect the knife cutting performance. Thank you for your informative videos, I am new to these knife stuff and have learn a lot from your videos.
Pro Tip: Just dip them in ferric when you get them. You can tell immediately if it is real Damascus if the secondary metal in the matrix blackens. All stainless, with laser etching will stay uniform in colour. If real Damascus is left in the ferric chloride solution the softer metal will etch much deeper leaving very defined ridges.
Thanks for all your insight. I'm new to the chef knife world. I have a Findking 8" Gyuto coming today. I wanted the best sub $50 knife I could find, that also looked amazing. The Amazon reviews were all 5 stars so I feel the risk is low. I can always return it 😉
I have no problems with Findking in terms of the core material used in their blades. Their wooden handles have protrusions on my version so if you ordered a knife with a wooden handle look at that first and the cladding line was too low in my opinion. So good that you ordered from Amazon since the RMA process is a bit easier and you can return it instead of sending it back to China which will cost more than the knife itself. Quility control can be better, have mixed experience with Findking knives with no problems, and some knives with the above-mentioned problems. But for a sub $50 knife they deliver a good knife! (check the quility control and if that is good then you will enjoy it!)
They’re much better now. The balance point on Xinzou Santoku knives are right where you want it, at the pinch grip. Grandsharp is also close to the quality of Xinzou, but cheaper. Either I’ve been really luck, or you’ve been really unlucky. I’ve ordered knives from Xinzou, grandsharp, Xitou, Sunnecko & Swedish Griphinity. I don’t think they’re bad, I think they’re what you pay for.
Xinzuo is currently one of the select few that were consistent with Grandsharp mixed results but they have improved as I have their latest Albalone version (a review should follow). It is a knife that was sent by Grandsharp themself free of charge so I have no idea if they cherry-picked a knife for me or not, I told them that I had mixed results when I bought the knives myself with them and they told me that they have improved their newer versions and older versions but it can be that some resellers still have the old batch. Sunnecko mixed results for me, Xituo also mixed more in the negative but some were good, Griphinity the AUS10 versions no complaints, solid knife the handle was very comfy. Some are what you paid for (but the very budget ones are not even worth the money tbh) some are good and even what I call a golden nugget for the price they were sold at (many of the good/ golden nuggets ones increased their prices by 50%+). Very curious to see what they will bring, they are currently mainly focused on the domestic market but the quality is improving for some brands design-wise questionable as I have a few of the newer versions mainly the handle designs. Most of their target is gifting for housewarming weddings etc as that is also one of the main reasons why they push the sets a lot where they include questionable sets and knives. But was told that they made the most profit from the sets, which is also one of their highest-selling sets compared to the individual knives. In Asia they even have demo stands for the knives in a mall or a store-in-store concept where sell and have their knives demo/display. But a lot has changed, some changed for the better, and some not.
@@chefpanko I have been carefully looking over my Chinese knives. They’re all factory knives & they must be in a rush. But I feel that I’ve been lucky with most of them, but they’ve been pairing, utility & carving knives. All Damascus with VG10 core. The sharpening was the sloppiest part. The Sunnecko was really well made but was blunt & unevenly sharpened. The Grandsharp was sharp, but sloppy sharpened. The Xituo was in between. I have a Ruixin angle sharpener, so it wasn’t a bad experience for me. But then there was the Xituo Santoku with Damascus & ebony handle. The balance was perfect & a joy to use. But I can see that they were in a rush. There were some slight lines from what seems to be very aggressive belt grinding that couldn’t be polished out & the ebony handle shape was slightly asymmetric. None of that effected the integrity or usability of the knife (it’s just not perfect). I’ve recently ordered some EDC knives from Two Sun because I want to see how good budget Chinese knives can get. But I feel that kitchen knives must be around Xinzou price before they’re starting to cut corners.
@@NEGAHNEPOHON yeah I feel like that too, while the quality has been improved slowly but steadily it can always be better. The knives I liked have grown a lot since I first reviewed them. For example, Xinzuo when I reviewed them they had the current website but it wasn't active, and later they added information about them but in Italian for some reason before they changed it to an English global website. It needs to be at around that price point to get a decent and still affordable knife, but I also have seen the less-known trying to sell for the same price with a less QC. The bigger they get however the more expensive they become, which at some point I think that many of the brands that are doing well now will phase out of AliExpress and go to Amazon or sell on their own website/own warehouse locations across the world. But at the same time, those brands that expanded beyond AliExpress have doubled in price most of the time. Sorry for the late reply was quite busy lately and missed the notification on this comment.
I have a Damascus set made from Japanese VG-10. The pattern seems to be real, and hasn't washed or scratched off. They were a bit more expensive, and seem to hold an edge very well compared to the cheap ones.
Great video Chef. I use a Xinzuo CoMov10 and am very happy with it. I'm also thinking about getting a Chinese AUS10, but don't really know whether the difference would be that significant for a home chef...
There is a slight diffrence but not significant. If you are happy with your current knife I would stick with the knife. Spend the money on a whetstone or honing rod if you don't have it.
@@chefpanko Tojiro is the only Japanese knife that has a low price. It’s the only knife I recommend to people who are new to Japanese knife. I have a Shun, too. It’s French style blade (rocker). I’m more use to Chinese knife, nikiri and gyuto
I ordered a petty for 20 bucks. Page says 60hrc, it won't be 60 but more than a wusthof for 60. I'll report any tiny thing that I can find. My experience with Chinese sellers is that usually you get to keep and refund or new product. If the edge sucks for example and seller is stubborn I make a quick video of it and tell the seller I'll upload to TH-cam, those threats always work haha. So tldr, Chinese knifes are better than the german cheap brands we got here, wusthof is still nice because cheaper for us and for American u can buy tojiro that all have theirs share of problems. I'm enjoying your positive reviews on Chinese knifes and information is great on it too. Oh and PS, lots of people in Germany,the knife geeks, say wusthof was bad steel..it's silly how much products fall off in the public eye in the country of production.also, mostly shun is regarded as a top brand here. I got one,it's nice but the 130€ that 14cm santoku cost is hardly worth it tbh.nice present, woman love it thought..
Interesting, also fun is Kai Shun in Japan is a domestic brand, not a high-end Japanese knife and sold in Don Quijote (a store that sells everything from cosmetics to snacks, food, etc) next to the Chinese made knives. I personally like the Wusthof steel so interesting to see that the people there don't like it.
Hi Chef Panko Im a beginner at kitcen im interest in japanese food culture would you suggest sowoll's deba,nakiri or yanagiba are these sharp? ( sorry for my bad english)
I have tested the Sowoll; I basically had to throw the Deba away. It is very cheaply made, has no added benefits, and does not have Deba's traits besides the look. In terms of functionality, they failed me. Based on my Deba experience with Sowoll, I can't recommend their knives and have avoided them since then. Light, bad steel, very soft, not sharp cheaply made handle untreated and was already lose on arrival. I don't know if they have improved since then. As a customer, I will never return to their brand after that experience with their Deba and would not recommend them to anyone.
Sometimes a gamble especially if you never heard of it but once you do find one then you get a knife that is worth more than the asking price. Glad you found one that is good :)
Hello Chef Panko! Thank you for the informative video. Can you make a review for the Chinese gyuto with the kurouchi finish at 4:37? I see this knife under many brands, but don’t see many reviews for it. Thanks!
Currently, it is more about what knife you are looking for to steer you in the right direction. Since the brands themselves have mixed results in terms of comfort and design decisions, and some mixed results in quality. The current Brands to look for is currently Xinzuo/Hezhen. I have individual reviews about their knives but not all are recommended due to design choices.
@@frantheman1912 The only one that looks similar to a Kramer is this one: bit.ly/2Nfe7At I did not try it myself but the handle looks very similar, I have mixed experience with Xituo. But it looks good, the VG10 might be a 10cr15comov however the Rockwell should be around 59/60 so not much to complain about the current price/quality of $40. I hope that that helps, I would avoid full-tang wooden handles with 3 rivest many protrusions due to shrunken wood.
I need more information before I can guide you to a certain direction or even be able to recommend something. I need to know what you hand-size is (in terms of glove sizes S/M/L and Men or Woman hand size). Other than that I need to know what the most used cutting style is. (Lifting the knife up and down or a rocking motion etc). Do you have any idea of what knife style you would want and why? Just a few basic questions are needed before I can recommend anything.
@chefpanko I have some alliexpress knives, but I'm not happy with them. My 8-inch kiritsuke is too long, 6-inch kiritsuke is too small and I don't like the santoku. I'm thinking about 7-inch gyuto right now. My hand is medium size and I'm a man and my favorite cutting style is rocking motion. I like Japan style knife, especially octagonal handles
@@szosomirszosowski5401 That is a hard one hmmm. A Kiristsuke is usually a bit on the flat side in terms of blade profile not ideal for rocking. A Gyuto should be a bit rounder and the smaller they are the more pronounced/round the profile might be. What did you not like about the Santoku? Was it due to the lack of a tip part? Or profile? I would say you might be in the right direction with a 7inch Gyuto but look closely at the blade profile since you like to rock a Gyuto with a round profile might be the knife for you. But I don't think there are many that make them in that length. If the Santoku is just because of a lack of the tip you might want to look for a Bunka-styled knife (Santoku profile with an added k-tip).
@chefpanko I don't like santoku because of edge profile, is not so round at the end. But I have an idea, I will get one of alliexpress gyotu blank and try to make it shorter by stone grinding from the handle side, and then I will check :)
Keemake is a bit strange in their branding, the first Keemake version was an off-brand of Sunnecko. That specific Keemake version had some quality control issues mainly with a nonstraight cutting edge on my review version. Packaging was good Rockwell hardness came close to 60 but is most likely around 59. Later they changed the Sunnecko brand to Keemake, Sunnecko was a decent knife not great but they were cheap. Now all the prices have been increased and a strange decision to rebrand Sunnecko to Keemake. Since I liked the old Keemake direction back then. So based on the above scenario I don't recommend them since I have found other brands that were more consistent in terms of quality control and no strange rebranding decisions. Brands like Xinzuo is offering a wide range of styles and aesthetics: th-cam.com/video/2GIIJe4xkIY/w-d-xo.html Or you have the Hezhen brand which is similar to Xinzuo but more premium looking but in terms of quality pretty much the same as Xinzuo: th-cam.com/video/maWQS_WTFWI/w-d-xo.html&t= Hope that this helps feel free to ask more questions, other brands I can recommend is Dengjia, Shibazi (if you are looking for a Chinese cleaver)
Thanks for the sub! Tojiro and Shun are both completely fine :) The Shun is also becoming more affordable compared to when they first released in North America. Especially the Classic series I remember when they were $200 to $250. Now they are around $100 to $150 for the classic line. As for ''chinese made knives'' they are getting better and better in quility. AliExpress is a jungle but some that break out, offer thier knife brand in well-known stores. So I'm curious to see how that plays out, always good to see new knife competitiors and brand.
I used the VG10 Damascus knives for the slaughtering of those two roosters. I was very impressed with the Grandsharp 5.5" boning knife. It went like a razor through the thougher gamier traditional free range bird meat. It maintained the same sharpness over the whole operation, cutting through though cartilage and hitting very though bones. It best shinned at the delicate gutting where it felt like a surgical tool compared to my Victorinox/F. DICK butchering knives. At the end of the butchering i picked through the delicate livers to cut of the bille. The knife had an excellent sharpness I got them perfect. And the long one worked as a charm for slicing of the heads. I was a bit anxious about the bolt action stunning not being done correctly (being my first time) and was prepared with the knife for bleeding and backup. Fortunately i did the stunning corectly and the animals had no suffering. The knife went straight through the very though spine with one decisive swipe without any damage to the blade (not even a scratch surprisingly). For their porpose i'd give them a perfect 10. In aprox 2 months i'll be doing 9 broilers at 12 weeks old, specially raised for meat. The carcasses will be definitely softer to cut through but it will be nice to see how the knives perform on a bigger scale.
Thank you for the information on your progress and experience with the knives. That must have been a lot of fun to do breaking down the animals. I stopped working at the restaurant because I did not like the shift that they went through and I could not learn more. One of the reasons was that they switched to a pre filleted Salmon (we now only remove pin bones and skin)......the quility dropped tremendously and as a chef, it hurts that they take away the things we admire and love to do and to learn away from us. (and I hate that so many restaurants at least here in Europe are shifting to a quick solution to earn money). Other things too like breaking down a duck, chicken, a part of the pig and more. This is what happens when the owner is not a chef......the restaurants that still keeps the breaking down part and the quility of the food are restaurants where the head chef is also the owner of the restaurant and switches course menu's from time to time.... anyways *rant* over :) Always good to see that you have so much fun with the learning progress!
@@chefpanko i think cutting down costs is a big part of the HoReCa business now-a-days virtually everywhere. I've had the privilige of working with some really good oldschool guys and they share your opinion. The saying: "They don't make them as they used too" is very true. I can understand the normal evolution of gastronomy but I think as a whole we are losing our old school values for commodity, a quicker buck and survival on a market where more managers use the lowest common denominator or Instagram potential over substance. It was very nice to have that experience with my 82 yo grandma. Some will say it wasn't something so skilled or just something cruel but it felt like reconnecting with my past. Now i am taking care of my few days old baby chicks. Some little guy kept me up the last 2 days cause he wasn't eating, I kept him warm waking up at 2 hours intervals and fed him by syringe. This one I'm gonna keep, I named him Chuck Norris (Ranger breed) cause he is so badass and survived when I never expected it.
@@orlandolzr The same for me I'm not old by all means but I was trained by the older generation chef's during my restaurant apprenticeship work periods. the knowledge they have and the passion can be felt by just watching and talking to them. But nowadays we have uber eats, Deliveroo, takeaway, and many more delivery services increasing the workload of the cooks and harder to predict how much product you need for the day. That was another reason for me to leave the restaurant, if you want to work with 2 people less but increase the orders without adding extra experienced cooks then we are out. 4 people left including me, with all the respect to them and I, love every one of the people that work there it felt like family but taking away the fun of being a professional cook and that is learning how to do food prep in a restaurant scale. Sure 3 already left and I was one of the only ones that still knew everything about prepping Sushi, it simply added more workload by replacing 3 experienced cooks/chefs by 3 apprentice cooks. It increased a lot of workload for me I had to keep an eye on all 3 and also teach them how to do certain tasks. The moment when they completely ignore the most important step in serving people raw fish was my sign to leave. You always need to remove the blood under the belly spine area. The blood will taint the fish flesh and taste, by ignoring the cleaning progress you save time but at what cost? letting your customers eat the flesh that has been coated with blood? This did not only hurt me but also my mentor, teacher during my apprenticeship, everything my chef taught me has been completely ignored. Their knowledge of why the Japanese are always disciplined and never skip progress is so valuable and it hurts me to see how western Japanese Sushi restaurant butcher the art and the craft of the Japanese cuisine in order to save time and money......
@@chefpanko ahahahaha... Sorry for laughing but this situation is so common it's hilarious. I know you guys have a great respect for tradition, your elders and your craft. I know you have the best interest at heart, but money is the absolute dictator now unfortunately. I really don't know how the old guys managed to have more staff, worse communication and logistics, more complex recipes made with less productive equipment and still managed to make a profit, while these guys always complain . I've worked with a few Executive Chefs who were absolute rubbish as cooks, hell, one of them actually had his menu handed over by a Michelin Star Designer Chef and he couldn't make a proper creme brulee. They were interested only in order times and look. The finesse of the dishes was ignored because... Using their own words.."the clients are too stupid to notice". Good chefs are considered people who milk their staff, know how to talk the restaurant and hit their sales targets. I came into the kitchen from a different career as a necessity at not the youngest age and still it broke my heart what I saw in 4 different countries in a few quite appreciated establishments. I can feel the quality of your work by what and the way you talk, I wish you find a job where you are not only respected as an individual but your years of training and knowledge are put to proper use!
@@orlandolzr Yeah I have heard "the clients are too stupid to notice" on some of the restaurants I used to work for but left quite fast. Nowadays I think the home cooks are in a way better position to learn than someone that just follows instructions without knowing the ''why'' you need to do certain things in that order or technique at a restaurant that mainly focuses on speed and cutting cost. With TH-cam you can learn a lot more, sure youtube can't replace the head chef's that actually has build up the knowledge and experience since you work one on one with him and can ask him things directly with feedback. But nowadays the majority of the so-called head chef doesn't even know why they do things in an order they just do it because another chef/head chef or someone that creates the menu for them told them so. Culinary schools depend on where you take them but most of them at least teach you the basics of how to break down fish, poultry, pork and more. When I switched from French to Japanese I had to relearn how the Japanese filets the fish,(while some were comparable to the western way, but the details and the switching of knives for 1 fish to maintain the original state and quility are fascinating). Things we don't do in the western way of filleting fish because we are going to cook the fish anyway. The same for the everyday task while at the french cuisine we pierce and rock chop, the Japanese cuisine slices most of the time and therefore we mainly use the fingertip grip vs the pinch grip. Something I had to relearn too. What I did miss was that at the french restaurant the head-chef let us create our own dishes and then we taste them together and change them and decide if we want that in the course menu. Or even thinking about a new menu item for the owner's second restaurant (I respect that kind of chef and the owner that gives the creativity to his head-chef and the head chef gives the sous chef the freedom to create). I also loved his confidence when he decided to hire me (after my stage) he said ''if you work here with me for 6 months, you will be able to work everywhere else after''.
After buying an imported VG10 steel 5 inch Sunnecko "santoku" and a 7 inch AUS10 inch Findking chef knife I noticed that the AUS10 was alot harder to sharpen with a claimed 3000/8000 grit whetstone. I suspect the chinese VG10s (or at least my variant) is lower HRC than AUS10 core material. Alternatively I got tricked with the santoku and they used a cheaper core material.
As for the VG10 I'm actually not entirely sure if they use the an Imported VG10 from Japan with bad heat treatment or that they are just using the Chinese VG10 ''10cr15comov''. Many of the ''imported Japanese VG10'' in the description were mixed in edge retention and quility and I even got one that is at it's higest 57 hrc but it really feels like a 55 or 56 to moe. A lot of resellers are selling the 10cr15comov as an AAUS10 or VG10, VG10 is the most commen one that they try to mislead consumers with pictures of VG10 but after reading everything carefully you can spot the 10cr15comov, but in some cases you wont find the 10cr15comov and after contacting because of suspicion they just say ''yes Chinese VG10'' or ''it is 10cr15comov the same as VG10''. AUS10 was indeed the only one that gave me a consitent edge retention across all the brands, however I got a few sellers that tried to sell the AUS10 as an 10cr15comov. And that is in my eyes misleading to the consumers. As for sharpening, chinese made stones are good enough only the rating of the Grit is off, that is something the Japanese are doing a better job at with thier grit rating that is more precise. But both should manage to get the job done. Thank you for sharing your experiences
@@chefpanko Yeah, I knew grit ratings were dodgy before I purchased and I relied on reviews where reviewers stated assumed HRC of the blade they sharpened. I sharpened the AUS10 fine, it simply took way longer and the blade left a lot less material on the stone.
@@kratos1590 Another thing is that the Chinese stones dish out faster, at least compared to my Global soaking stones. But overall they are decent stones and get's the job done for a fraction of the price. While the grit ratings might be lower than stated it is still consistent over the complete surface.
Hi, What do you think of the Grandsharp brand that manufactures AUS-10, is it reliable? I'm looking for a Kiritsuke, and there's just one on sale (-51%).
@@MalleaCL As a company, I wish they did something with my feedback. I have worked with them once and after the review, they never replied back, but before my review, they were very responsive. While that knife's Abalone shell handle looked stunning the handle was very slippery. Other brands have overtaken Grandsharp in blade grinds and more, so I expect some fierce competition next year when the new series gets released from various brands. In terms of their AUS10, it is decent just what I expected, but AUS10 is not better than the Japanese VG10 and in some cases not better than the Chinese VG10 10cr15comov* *if done correctly, currently the only brand that had a good 10Cr15CoMoV is Xinzuo/Hezhen. Price/performance/quality depends on what knife you are looking at. But in terms of price, I think that many of the brands are currently cutting their profit. The brand value may need to improve on brand value. Currently, Xinzuo/Hezhen would be my top recommendation in terms of Chinese brand values. The only brand that is responsive to my suggestions on improvements and some of it is already implemented in newer series for 2024. And I have tested most of their series so I can give you more feedback on those.
My current recommendation can be found here: www.chefpanko.com/types-of-knives/ I will update this list at the end of the year when I find new knives that I like more but that is my current list.
VG10 is a steel-type that is used as the core material, which has stainless properties but can get a higher heat treatment making it harder, and therefore, you get longer edge retention. The edge can be sharpened on a lower angle without sacrificing edge retention (less rollover). The problem is that a thin core is brittle; therefore, they add a san-mai (3 layer construction). Where the harder core, like a VG10, is sandwiched between 2 softer stainless steel. This increases the durability and reduces the stress fractures that come with a higher heat-treated core. (You can compare it with your smartphone, the harder the glass, the less it scratches from your keys in your pocket, but the faster it can shatter if it is too thin). For a quick overview without too much detail, manufacturers like to add a Rockwell scale beside the core material's naming. Cheap knives will most likely only say stainless steel instead of a specific steel-type. For more info about steel, types visit my website: www.chefpanko.com/kitchen-knives-steel-type-overview/ 33/37 etc. layers or Damascus layers etc., are only there for aesthetic purpose. It does not add any benefits other than just the looks. You have fake layers that are just lasered or on the blade for the looks and multi-layer Damascus while still fake ''Damascus'' it won't be washed off from multiple washing sessions since the layers/look are made with multiple layers of steel stacked on to them instead of lasered. Feel free to ask more questions hope this clarifies a few things :)
This is a superb answer, chef ! I purchased my first serious knive, yaxell Mon but saw an offer now for yaxell zen that is 37 layers instead of 3. As far as I understand you, both are same as long as they are made from same vg10? Is just that yaxell zen is described as a " higher up better knive " than yaxell Mon Thanks for spending time on my crap .hope I'm not too needy in your eyes :)
@@jaanajaana5771, I looked it up. The mon is indeed 3 layers matt finish. Zen is basically 3 layers (the softer outer layers have multiple layers just to create a Damascus look), so functionality is still the same as 3 layers. The other difference is that the Zen series from Yaxell is hammered (most likely machine hammered) to create a hammered pattern, but the hammered part helps with food release when food reaches the hammered part. So besides the hammered look, it adds functionality. So you most likely pay more for the aesthetics and hammered part for the extra functionality since both techniques require an extra step in the manufacturing process. In terms of core material, if both are VG10 with a Rockwell of 61, they perform the same, but the Zen has the added benefit of a hammered food release pattern with a high mirror polish. But I also saw that the Zen series offers SG2 steel, and with that difference, it is basically the core material difference, which you can see the difference in the chart on my website. Hope that this helps, and no worries, I'm here to help :)
@@jaanajaana5771 No, it won't add any lifespan to the blade. Since the core is exposed and not sandwiched, you see a line above if you look at the cutting core. That is a cladding line where you see where the sandwich (2 softer outer steel) starts. Of course, no knife will stay sharp forever, and you eventually need to sharpen them on a stone, for example. At 01:00 you see the line of the Keemake and Zanmai. The Zanmai has been used for years in a professional kitchen and is still performing fine. A VG10 Rockwell 60.(a home cook will not use a knife as long as they do at the restaurant using a knife for 4+ hours a day to do prep work). So with regular maintenance and care, it will easily last you a decade for home use. Multiple layers can add thickness (but this entirely depends on the manufacturer. You can always ask the seller what the spine thickness is and if there is a distal spine tapering) to the blade, which will affect how the knife goes through food. The thinner the knife, the better it goes through food without splitting. But the thinner the knife, the less durable it is. Most knives with a higher Rockwell will last you a very long time. Even cheap knives will last pretty long if used at home; the key is maintenance. Restaurant use will wear out a knife a lot faster, but with a Rockwell of 61, you should not worry about lifespan unless you drop the knife and there is a big chunk missing (or you went through bone and there is a huge chip). And of course, with all knives, hand wash and dry before storing. Never put them in the dishwasher. How many times you can sharpen depends on how you use the knife but again, for home, use nothing to worry about unless you drop the knife.
I haven't gotten the opportunity yet to test the knife. But I plan on adding it on my to-do list since I skipped reviewing since the pandemic and lockdown I was out of work where I test the majority of the knives.
Definitely, for the higher priced knives around $50 USD, the knife quility control is currently consistent with the G10 handles. Wood can use some work (protrusions around the rivets and full tang handle area), Pakkawood is getting better. The only complain is the design, so the blade profile and the balance point are sometimes very strange but overall the quility is getting better and better for the higher-priced ones (especially when I tested so many I can pick the good ones by just reading the description page). For the lower-priced knives under $25 USD the quility fluctuates a lot.
@@chefpanko i bought a Mizu Knives "VG10" chefs knife G10 handles from thier kickstarter. $67 on sale or $90 regular. Its very good in edge retention but i feel they took shortcuts in getting a high HRC, like a lower HRC with a good temper would be better idk, never measured it. (Rockwell is only part of the story with good heat treat) Anyway i do several hundred hits on a cutting board dicing lots and lots of beef with it a week and it only needs a few little swipes on a medium stone to get the bite back at the beginning of day. Balance point is weird and heavy. I contemplate getting a proper Tojiro F-807 for similar price but my knife is doing everything i ask.
Great video as always ;) Please I beg you can we get a Wusthof Classic Ikon Santoku (17cm) knife review? :D I cannot find any real review of the knife , it is mostly in some old videos without including any serious details..thanks again ^^
Hey its a little late but I own it and I love it. From all the knives I own this one if definitely my favorite. It just feels right so use it, looks beautiful and is super easy to maintain and sharpen. If you have any more questions I could answer them.
Once you know what you prefer it will be easier to select a specific type of knie like a Santoku, Nakiri, Gyutot etc. Feel free to ask me anything you want and good luck with searching for a new knife :)
@@chefpanko Well I went ahead and ordered the Findking Nakiri with non oval handle like you suggested. I really don't do the rocking motion so I think this will suit me better than western style chef knife. Not really happy ordering from China but beggers can't be choosers as they say. For me it's still a quite expensive kitchen knife. Hope it serves me well. Thank you Panko. This is what I ordered: www.aliexpress.com/item/32924066701.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.34324c4dPARGQ7 49.5usd with 2usd store coupon.
@@Skeptic2006 I just uploaded a video today about the Nakiri's: th-cam.com/video/jQKMc0gO5lY/w-d-xo.html Since you don't like the rocking motion I would suggest you cancel the order of that Nakiri knife. It has a half-fish belly curve which takes some time to get used to but it promotes a rocking motion a bit more on that knife. The balance point is middle balanced so acceptable for that knife and profile but since you like the forward chopping a straighter Nakiri profile will suit you better. Keep in mind that the Nakiri from Findking that you linked is more suitable for small to medium hands. As for ordering from China Findking has an Amazon store and they ship from an Amazon warehouse: amzn.to/2KrXNgw
I think this one will suit you better based on the pictures the knife profile is straighter.: bit.ly/2RM9RLA So you might want to cancel it and wait till the cancellation is approved or ask the seller to send the other knife instead of the one you ordered.
@@chefpanko I cancelled the order and will get the one you linked. Have you tried any of the cheaper XiTuo knives? The more expensive ones are from XinZuo. I wonder if these are the same company.
Yeah, there is a lot of fraud, especially from unknown brands mostly ''dropshippers''. It is important to see which brand is actually building a good reputation. Seeing the knives being offered at reputable retailers (William Sonoma for example but they have a strict policy and often ask for exclusivity deals before they even list a certain brand) is one of the ways to establish a trustworthy brand.
It is not exactly under 10 euro's but for the price there is not much to complain. It is a knife from Xituo but many other resellers sells the same I did a review here: th-cam.com/video/eB8aIBUwDAM/w-d-xo.html&t= The store I bought it from: bit.ly/35gHU2r This is a probably the same knife but than with an endcap handle logo: bit.ly/2MKj70c (I did not test this knife from this store but I think they are basically the same knife). And I'm indeed dutch :) Was it easy to spot? Keep in mind no matter what knife you buy you need to know how to maintain them. And also many knives from China has a decent edge but some needs a slight touch up on a whetstone. Hope that that helps, ofcourse a knife that cost more will perform better.
@@chefpanko what do you mean dutch? At some point when I saw a video of yours saying "here in the EU" I wanted to ask if you worked in Amsterdam... But don't tell me you are born in the Netherlands...
Never tried that brand but have heard about them a few times, they are basically using white labels. So AliExpress/Alibaba knives but under their own brand (placing their own brand name on it). But they might even be part of a big brand in China, which is releasing a lot of new brands under their umbrella. Which is made in the same factory owned by that brand and then released under multiple smaller brands to figure out the market. One of those brands is Tuobituo, they manufacture and own a lot of brands (they even are or used to make knives for Dalstrong as you can see a lot of Dalstrong knives with logos and all in their promotional video since they provide custom OEMs and ODM's and Whitelabel knives). They basically have multiple brands across continents. In terms of Damascus, most of them are pre-laminated. But ''Real'' Damascus is not a thing anymore in kitchen knives. What is considered real = is pattern welded Damascus, multiple layers of steel to create the aesthetic, and usually with a hard middle core. What is considered fake = is lasered Damascus. Both are not ''real'' Damascus, but the pattern welded is perceived as the new ''real'' Damascus. Chinese-manufactured knives can either be lasered or pattern welded (many patterns welded Damascus are pre-laminated and the handle is welded onto it therefore you will see an abrupt Damascus pattern at the neck/bolster area). Lasered when scratched the Damascus look is unrecoverable, pattern-welded you can get it back with higher polish and acid bath. Hope that this explains some of your questions.
@@chefpanko yes it does thanks. I've been down a rabbit hole of Chinese knives the last 2 days. All I want to know is where I can find a decent first time Japanese Damascus knife for around £100. Amazon is not the answer I know that. Ideally I need to get it shipped to UK in time for Christmas day so my options are practically zero
@@alextomlinson There are EU warehouses on Ali, Xinzuo is one of the select few that have their knives in an EU warehouse, but with Christmas around the corner, your chances of getting it before Christmas are pretty much 0 indeed even if you order from an EU warehouse which usually takes 1 week to arrive (when I order from Poland/Spain/France warehouses with France being the fastest of around 2/3 days shipping to the Netherlands). Not sure if Xinzuo has a UK warehouse (AliExpress does have UK warehouses but not many brands are available in the UK warehouses), but usually they are a bit pricier when you select an EU/UK warehouse vs shipping directly from China. Amazon UK would be your best bet for timely delivery (if the delivery company can manage the influx of increased packages).
Those laser damascus are just rubbish. I got a 9.5 slicer and a 5.5 boning knife from Grandsharp that look like they are from the same range On the slicer i received the "real" Damascus and on the other I got the laser. I hate how they try to fool you only knowing most of the people wouldn't risk the hassle of sending them back.
I found it so amusing when I saw how scratched your knives are. I thought the scratches i've made where all my fault. But I guess they are really sensitive. That raises the question: Why would I choose a Damascus over a normal steel if not for looks? (before ordering mine I thought the Damascus and hammered finish help with surface tension and food sticking to the blade) If they scratch so easily in the hand of professionals, in the hands of an amateur they will look terrible after a few months of mistreatment.
Sending them back is not an option for me shipping back cost more than what I paid for the knives. If they did not state that it was a lasered Damascus on the product page then you can dispute it and go for a full refund without sending the knife back. You are usually protected by the AliExpress buyer's protection. So the seller actually can't mislead or lie to you but you have to dispute it with enough evidence. One seller actually paid a full refund and even send a new knife as advertised (he sent a wrong knife so that was very cool from him but that also depends on the seller). I was already happy with a refund and that I could keep the knife was not expecting him to send the actual knife that I had ordered after refund. (but again this was just 1 seller he also asked for a 5-star review for it, I had plenty of sellers that refused to pay me back and AliExpress closed the dispute in my favor because of all the evidence).
@@chefpanko it clearly said in the description 67 layer damascus, 33 on each side plus core... And it clearly is a laser one.. I'm gonna send an e-mail to AliExpress, especially cause i already bought 3 knives from that seller.
@@orlandolzr They are indeed scratching very fast, Damascus is pure for aesthetics, not a real benefit. Hammered does help but is not beneficial for many home uses. the cladding that you get and all Damascus has cladding on the actual core material, helps with rust resistance, and making the knife stronger. As for surface tension and food sticking, the cladding helps a bit, but the main reason for it to work is that there is a profile taper. The food will wedge better, and if they have a spine distal taper that will help too. And of course, the type of finish they used on the side helps a lot with breaking down water tension. The best way is probably a potato since they tend to stick to the blade a lot. But don't worry about the scratches if you have a lot of knives with scratches you will automatically become lazy in maintaining and just accept the scratches just like me :) After a while, you won't even notice the scratches :D
@@chefpanko oh and another thing i noticed. The amount of knives sold. I have hard time believing they sold only a few (ex:5) knives of each type in the whole world.
Another terrific/informative video. But as you might recall (or not) I have little faith in products made in China knowing how Chinese companies work/think. Even if there are a few good brands. Like Misen. So far the reviews have been positive. From TH-cam reviews and owners. China is a country known for making copies. And they've had a lot of practice. From making/selling counterfeit music CD's, fake iPhones, fake Rolex watches and recently copies (or their own version of JP hyprid knives (JP western style knives). Looking very close to what we see from Shun, Yaxell...etc. But in the end they aren't anywhere near the same quality. Will do what they can to save money in the manufacturing process. With questionable marketing (lot of lies). And then there is the customer service. Very few will give you good service. Even DALSTRONG is starting to get a bad reputation... Misen. I think it's an American company that does it's manufacturing in the PRC. So they should have good CS. Again I haven't heard any complaints about their products or customer service (CS). In the end, I don't think I feel comfortable still buying anything from a Chinese company making their products in the PRC. Till China has established themselves for reliability/quality like the Japanese and Koreans. Odd thing...the French. they seem to be in the "middle" int hat they aren't known for making bad products or offer bad CS (Made IN cookware/knives--good reputtion, Le Cruset, Staub...).
I agree CS and Quality control, is not the best and the only thing that makes it interesting is the price point. Brands like Misen and Griphinity have their own CS, while both are still made in china they also have a random Quality check on the batches of knives. To make sure they are on par for what they ordered the manufacturer to do. So the quality of their knives should be better than buying it from an unknown reseller or manufacturer themself. I thought that Dalstrong was getting better in CS, when they started they had a lot of bad reviews about their quality control. I have not tried the Dalstrong or the Misen so I can't give my opinion about them. I share the same if it wasn't for the request of testing other brands I would have stopped after the Xinzuo and Keemake knives. Or in the worst case, I would have stopped buying anything from AliExpress when it comes to knives if I had bought the Sowoll brand first. Like I said it was really a gamble in Quality control and if the knives are good or not. But on the other hand, if you finally found the knife that is actually worth or even worth more than you paid for then you have hit the jackpot. (But it was a gamble since there were 0 information about those knives online so I started making videos about my experience). But then came brand like Griphinity, a Swedish company but knives made in China, they have added their own take and design for their knives and that is where my interest started peeking. So now I want to test the Misen that has the same concept as Griphinty. While Griphinity wants to compete in the premium market Misen is just SImple and functional for the fraction of the price. So I agree, Chinese company manufacturing in China (PRC) you can still get the bad stigma around that. But the USA or Swedish etc company but made in China that is where things get interesting. Yep, definitely the french are in ''the middle'', like Tefal. It is not good or bad either they just are ''ok'' in ''the middle'' indeed. What was fun is when I went to Osaka and Tokyo I was actually looking for a Japanese brand for cookware, it was odd to see that all was made in PRC or the more premium Tefal. To see Tefal as one of their premium brands was very strange and the price was 2x more expensive than in Europe for a Tefal. they did proudly say that it was made in France. I also could see a lot of cookware made in Korea but could not find a single one that was actually made in Japan. Brands like the Shun was branded as a domestic brand in Japan, stores like Don Quijote sold them and the section they put them in was with all the knives made in China. The rice cookers, on the other hand, were all made in Japan.
Chinese engineers are very good. They could make a knife as good as Japanese shun without a problem but not for less money. Therefore they stick to making the most of cheap products and teh whole fricking world is buying the things. They don't think different, they think profit, apple does, Samsung does, shun does, tojiro and wusthof and every other companies do too. They all label knifes that haven't seen a hammer ever as forged for example.
That is the main problem, they can compete with the Japanese or German, but the bad stigma around Chinese made product by a Chinese company is not helping them in sales. So, for example, they sell the exact same knife the same look same brand, same performance but the only difference is one is made in China the other one in Japan. Chinese made knife: $100 Japanese made knife: $100 Despite being identical the bad stigma around Chinese made will let people buy the Japnese made one over the Chinese one. But other brands that actually have quality control and check the knife at every batch can help in that aspect. Same with Apple products, American company but every part is made in China, but Apple has strict quality control. (Designed in California) So saying that all Chinese made knives are bad is kinda misplaced. I know why they say it and why they think what they think, I would have thought the same if I had a few bad orders. But I hope that this video explains both sides since there are definitely some hidden gems on ALiExpress when it comes to knives but unfortunately there are bad knives too.
@@emeukal7683 Perhaps there are some good Chinese engineers. But clearly the way they do business isn't. Blame the decision makers in their companies.. The executives. Mostly underhanded. Lie about specs. They are a nation of copy artists. THAT is where they excel. In all they produce. Most of their knives are low quality. They're aren't concerned with establishing a good reputation for great quality and customer service. If they were they would have. All they care about is the bottom line. Profits. In any kind of business they're in.
@@chefpanko as I said to another. It's not like they can't.. It's that they don't care to.. make high quality products and be honest. That's not their approach. Or they would have a few companies with good reputations. Misen. American company. Cookware message in the PRC. People say good quality. Customer service department is in the USA. Apple. American company. Some parts made in China. But require strict quality control by I guess an shrivel team. Had it been a totally Chinese company based out of China.. Again. It's not that they can't they just won't. It's not their business model. It's in their mindset. How they think. Part of their business culture. If you hire a Chinese home renovation company.. they have the same approach. Being less than honest. I work from experience.
![[[OFFICIAL MV]] เอิ้นขวัญให้อ้าย- อ๊ะอาย สกุณาพร | ค่ายเพลงเป็นหนึ่ง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83x6L3X3qh0/mqdefault.jpg)
After talking to multiple OEM's and pretty much every single one of them told me that imported Japanese VG10 is not possible (Anymore), but 10cr15comov is a Chinese equivalent to the Japanese VG10.
Some OEM's told me that VG10 export is banned, so pretty much exclusive to Japan and the knife makers in Japan.
Like you all know, when you guys asked in the comment sections if it was the real Japanese VG10, I always said that I have my doubts or the heat treatment was not on par with Japanese-made VG10.
This pretty much confirms why and why I have pushed AUS10 over VG10 a lot more when it comes to knives made in China.
10cr15comov would not be bad steel if heat-treated correctly. It will indeed sit between VG10 and AUS10.
I loved your reviews. Very detail and non biased. I am going with the 6.5 keemake aus10 . Will let you know how it works. I have bought the 6.5 sunnecko VG10 version and it was very sharp initially, but retention seems on the lower end. Still very good knife for the price of 65 CAD
@ChefPanko, regarding the brand you recommend, is the claimed damascus knives sell by chinese Xinzou brand also not made from layered steel (damascus)?
@@syafiqrahim9378 Xinzuo sells multiple knives in terms of layered Xinzuo has a layered knife. The layers give it a Damascus look and are just for aesthetics, the cladding however does serve a purpose. So they are layered steel to create the Damascus pattern.
As far as I'm aware is that Xinzuo does not sell ''edged in'' or ''lasered'' patterned knives.
So each knife may have the same pattern but will look different on each version you get.
@@chefpanko After watching your "How to choose a good Nakiri knife" and hearing your explanation that many japanese knife have cladding as aesthetics, then I watch this one review (The Secret Line to Look For When Buying a Japanese Kitchen Knife by Knife and Stone channel) about japanese metal work, "sanmai"/3-layer metalwork where hard steel acts as knife core and its edge, while soft steel as its jacket on both sides (cladding), now I clearly understand why you said it is just for aesthetic, easily to get scratches and does not affect the knife cutting performance.
Thank you for your informative videos, I am new to these knife stuff and have learn a lot from your videos.
Pro Tip: Just dip them in ferric when you get them. You can tell immediately if it is real Damascus if the secondary metal in the matrix blackens. All stainless, with laser etching will stay uniform in colour. If real Damascus is left in the ferric chloride solution the softer metal will etch much deeper leaving very defined ridges.
why do you have only 704 subs? you're worth way more than that.
Thank you for the nice comment :)
Surprising to see another knife channel with 500X the subscribers and less substantial content.
even at 54k -- still extremely underrated 🙏🏼
Thanks for all your insight. I'm new to the chef knife world. I have a Findking 8" Gyuto coming today. I wanted the best sub $50 knife I could find, that also looked amazing. The Amazon reviews were all 5 stars so I feel the risk is low. I can always return it 😉
I have no problems with Findking in terms of the core material used in their blades.
Their wooden handles have protrusions on my version so if you ordered a knife with a wooden handle look at that first and the cladding line was too low in my opinion.
So good that you ordered from Amazon since the RMA process is a bit easier and you can return it instead of sending it back to China which will cost more than the knife itself.
Quility control can be better, have mixed experience with Findking knives with no problems, and some knives with the above-mentioned problems.
But for a sub $50 knife they deliver a good knife! (check the quility control and if that is good then you will enjoy it!)
They’re much better now. The balance point on Xinzou Santoku knives are right where you want it, at the pinch grip. Grandsharp is also close to the quality of Xinzou, but cheaper. Either I’ve been really luck, or you’ve been really unlucky. I’ve ordered knives from Xinzou, grandsharp, Xitou, Sunnecko & Swedish Griphinity. I don’t think they’re bad, I think they’re what you pay for.
Xinzuo is currently one of the select few that were consistent with Grandsharp mixed results but they have improved as I have their latest Albalone version (a review should follow). It is a knife that was sent by Grandsharp themself free of charge so I have no idea if they cherry-picked a knife for me or not, I told them that I had mixed results when I bought the knives myself with them and they told me that they have improved their newer versions and older versions but it can be that some resellers still have the old batch. Sunnecko mixed results for me, Xituo also mixed more in the negative but some were good, Griphinity the AUS10 versions no complaints, solid knife the handle was very comfy.
Some are what you paid for (but the very budget ones are not even worth the money tbh) some are good and even what I call a golden nugget for the price they were sold at (many of the good/ golden nuggets ones increased their prices by 50%+).
Very curious to see what they will bring, they are currently mainly focused on the domestic market but the quality is improving for some brands design-wise questionable as I have a few of the newer versions mainly the handle designs.
Most of their target is gifting for housewarming weddings etc as that is also one of the main reasons why they push the sets a lot where they include questionable sets and knives.
But was told that they made the most profit from the sets, which is also one of their highest-selling sets compared to the individual knives.
In Asia they even have demo stands for the knives in a mall or a store-in-store concept where sell and have their knives demo/display.
But a lot has changed, some changed for the better, and some not.
@@chefpanko I have been carefully looking over my Chinese knives. They’re all factory knives & they must be in a rush. But I feel that I’ve been lucky with most of them, but they’ve been pairing, utility & carving knives. All Damascus with VG10 core.
The sharpening was the sloppiest part. The Sunnecko was really well made but was blunt & unevenly sharpened. The Grandsharp was sharp, but sloppy sharpened. The Xituo was in between. I have a Ruixin angle sharpener, so it wasn’t a bad experience for me.
But then there was the Xituo Santoku with Damascus & ebony handle. The balance was perfect & a joy to use. But I can see that they were in a rush. There were some slight lines from what seems to be very aggressive belt grinding that couldn’t be polished out & the ebony handle shape was slightly asymmetric. None of that effected the integrity or usability of the knife (it’s just not perfect).
I’ve recently ordered some EDC knives from Two Sun because I want to see how good budget Chinese knives can get. But I feel that kitchen knives must be around Xinzou price before they’re starting to cut corners.
@@NEGAHNEPOHON yeah I feel like that too, while the quality has been improved slowly but steadily it can always be better. The knives I liked have grown a lot since I first reviewed them.
For example, Xinzuo when I reviewed them they had the current website but it wasn't active, and later they added information about them but in Italian for some reason before they changed it to an English global website.
It needs to be at around that price point to get a decent and still affordable knife, but I also have seen the less-known trying to sell for the same price with a less QC.
The bigger they get however the more expensive they become, which at some point I think that many of the brands that are doing well now will phase out of AliExpress and go to Amazon or sell on their own website/own warehouse locations across the world. But at the same time, those brands that expanded beyond AliExpress have doubled in price most of the time.
Sorry for the late reply was quite busy lately and missed the notification on this comment.
Thank you for the reviews! I love your page!
Thank you for watching :)
I have a Damascus set made from Japanese VG-10. The pattern seems to be real, and hasn't washed or scratched off. They were a bit more expensive, and seem to hold an edge very well compared to the cheap ones.
Great video Chef. I use a Xinzuo CoMov10 and am very happy with it. I'm also thinking about getting a Chinese AUS10, but don't really know whether the difference would be that significant for a home chef...
There is a slight diffrence but not significant. If you are happy with your current knife I would stick with the knife.
Spend the money on a whetstone or honing rod if you don't have it.
For any price close to $70, might as well buy a Tojiro knife. It’s the cheapest Japanese knife I found.
Tojiro is currently on sale for around $50 on Amazon that is a solid deal!
@@chefpanko Tojiro is the only Japanese knife that has a low price. It’s the only knife I recommend to people who are new to Japanese knife.
I have a Shun, too. It’s French style blade (rocker). I’m more use to Chinese knife, nikiri and gyuto
Thanks for this info. I really enjoy your channel!
I ordered a petty for 20 bucks. Page says 60hrc, it won't be 60 but more than a wusthof for 60. I'll report any tiny thing that I can find. My experience with Chinese sellers is that usually you get to keep and refund or new product. If the edge sucks for example and seller is stubborn I make a quick video of it and tell the seller I'll upload to TH-cam, those threats always work haha.
So tldr, Chinese knifes are better than the german cheap brands we got here, wusthof is still nice because cheaper for us and for American u can buy tojiro that all have theirs share of problems. I'm enjoying your positive reviews on Chinese knifes and information is great on it too.
Oh and PS, lots of people in Germany,the knife geeks, say wusthof was bad steel..it's silly how much products fall off in the public eye in the country of production.also, mostly shun is regarded as a top brand here. I got one,it's nice but the 130€ that 14cm santoku cost is hardly worth it tbh.nice present, woman love it thought..
Interesting, also fun is Kai Shun in Japan is a domestic brand, not a high-end Japanese knife and sold in Don Quijote (a store that sells everything from cosmetics to snacks, food, etc) next to the Chinese made knives.
I personally like the Wusthof steel so interesting to see that the people there don't like it.
Hi Chef Panko Im a beginner at kitcen im interest in japanese food culture would you suggest sowoll's deba,nakiri or yanagiba are these sharp? ( sorry for my bad english)
I have tested the Sowoll; I basically had to throw the Deba away. It is very cheaply made, has no added benefits, and does not have Deba's traits besides the look. In terms of functionality, they failed me.
Based on my Deba experience with Sowoll, I can't recommend their knives and have avoided them since then.
Light, bad steel, very soft, not sharp cheaply made handle untreated and was already lose on arrival.
I don't know if they have improved since then. As a customer, I will never return to their brand after that experience with their Deba and would not recommend them to anyone.
I bought a Chinese cleaver on Aliexpress and it is a good knife.
Sometimes a gamble especially if you never heard of it but once you do find one then you get a knife that is worth more than the asking price. Glad you found one that is good :)
Hi, can a AliExpress 67 layers 10Cr15CoMoV core Damascus steel knife be darkened with coffee etch?
Hello Chef Panko! Thank you for the informative video. Can you make a review for the Chinese gyuto with the kurouchi finish at 4:37? I see this knife under many brands, but don’t see many reviews for it. Thanks!
This made me buy one for no reason
Make sure you read the reviews or watch since some of them are not worth the time and money.
so what brand should i buy? i am looking at buying some good quality damascus knives.
Currently, it is more about what knife you are looking for to steer you in the right direction. Since the brands themselves have mixed results in terms of comfort and design decisions, and some mixed results in quality.
The current Brands to look for is currently Xinzuo/Hezhen. I have individual reviews about their knives but not all are recommended due to design choices.
Hello, you know a knive that has the design of the Kramer and a good price?
I know only the dalstrong shun but is pricey at 129 dollars :/
@@frantheman1912 The only one that looks similar to a Kramer is this one:
bit.ly/2Nfe7At
I did not try it myself but the handle looks very similar, I have mixed experience with Xituo.
But it looks good, the VG10 might be a 10cr15comov however the Rockwell should be around 59/60 so not much to complain about the current price/quality of $40.
I hope that that helps, I would avoid full-tang wooden handles with 3 rivest many protrusions due to shrunken wood.
@@chefpanko thanks I will look it up !!! God bless you always already subscribe and love your videos
Great explanations! Thank you!
Thank you for watching and comment :)
Could you recommend a good knife under 100$ like everyday home use
I need more information before I can guide you to a certain direction or even be able to recommend something.
I need to know what you hand-size is (in terms of glove sizes S/M/L and Men or Woman hand size).
Other than that I need to know what the most used cutting style is. (Lifting the knife up and down or a rocking motion etc).
Do you have any idea of what knife style you would want and why?
Just a few basic questions are needed before I can recommend anything.
@chefpanko I have some alliexpress knives, but I'm not happy with them. My 8-inch kiritsuke is too long, 6-inch kiritsuke is too small and I don't like the santoku. I'm thinking about 7-inch gyuto right now. My hand is medium size and I'm a man and my favorite cutting style is rocking motion. I like Japan style knife, especially octagonal handles
@@szosomirszosowski5401 That is a hard one hmmm.
A Kiristsuke is usually a bit on the flat side in terms of blade profile not ideal for rocking. A Gyuto should be a bit rounder and the smaller they are the more pronounced/round the profile might be.
What did you not like about the Santoku? Was it due to the lack of a tip part? Or profile?
I would say you might be in the right direction with a 7inch Gyuto but look closely at the blade profile since you like to rock a Gyuto with a round profile might be the knife for you. But I don't think there are many that make them in that length.
If the Santoku is just because of a lack of the tip you might want to look for a Bunka-styled knife (Santoku profile with an added k-tip).
@chefpanko I don't like santoku because of edge profile, is not so round at the end.
But I have an idea, I will get one of alliexpress gyotu blank and try to make it shorter by stone grinding from the handle side, and then I will check :)
@@szosomirszosowski5401 I hope it works out for you :)
Hello, i wanted to ask you if you recommend the keemake knife. Thanks
Keemake is a bit strange in their branding, the first Keemake version was an off-brand of Sunnecko. That specific Keemake version had some quality control issues mainly with a nonstraight cutting edge on my review version. Packaging was good Rockwell hardness came close to 60 but is most likely around 59.
Later they changed the Sunnecko brand to Keemake, Sunnecko was a decent knife not great but they were cheap. Now all the prices have been increased and a strange decision to rebrand Sunnecko to Keemake. Since I liked the old Keemake direction back then.
So based on the above scenario I don't recommend them since I have found other brands that were more consistent in terms of quality control and no strange rebranding decisions.
Brands like Xinzuo is offering a wide range of styles and aesthetics: th-cam.com/video/2GIIJe4xkIY/w-d-xo.html
Or you have the Hezhen brand which is similar to Xinzuo but more premium looking but in terms of quality pretty much the same as Xinzuo: th-cam.com/video/maWQS_WTFWI/w-d-xo.html&t=
Hope that this helps feel free to ask more questions, other brands I can recommend is Dengjia, Shibazi (if you are looking for a Chinese cleaver)
Cangshan is a great brand.
Subbed! Nice videos happy to see this before buying. I’m going to stick to my Tojiro and Shun hehe no Ali for me
Thanks for the sub! Tojiro and Shun are both completely fine :) The Shun is also becoming more affordable compared to when they first released in North America. Especially the Classic series I remember when they were $200 to $250. Now they are around $100 to $150 for the classic line.
As for ''chinese made knives'' they are getting better and better in quility.
AliExpress is a jungle but some that break out, offer thier knife brand in well-known stores.
So I'm curious to see how that plays out, always good to see new knife competitiors and brand.
I used the VG10 Damascus knives for the slaughtering of those two roosters. I was very impressed with the Grandsharp 5.5" boning knife. It went like a razor through the thougher gamier traditional free range bird meat. It maintained the same sharpness over the whole operation, cutting through though cartilage and hitting very though bones. It best shinned at the delicate gutting where it felt like a surgical tool compared to my Victorinox/F. DICK butchering knives. At the end of the butchering i picked through the delicate livers to cut of the bille. The knife had an excellent sharpness I got them perfect.
And the long one worked as a charm for slicing of the heads. I was a bit anxious about the bolt action stunning not being done correctly (being my first time) and was prepared with the knife for bleeding and backup. Fortunately i did the stunning corectly and the animals had no suffering. The knife went straight through the very though spine with one decisive swipe without any damage to the blade (not even a scratch surprisingly). For their porpose i'd give them a perfect 10. In aprox 2 months i'll be doing 9 broilers at 12 weeks old, specially raised for meat. The carcasses will be definitely softer to cut through but it will be nice to see how the knives perform on a bigger scale.
Thank you for the information on your progress and experience with the knives. That must have been a lot of fun to do breaking down the animals. I stopped working at the restaurant because I did not like the shift that they went through and I could not learn more.
One of the reasons was that they switched to a pre filleted Salmon (we now only remove pin bones and skin)......the quility dropped tremendously and as a chef, it hurts that they take away the things we admire and love to do and to learn away from us. (and I hate that so many restaurants at least here in Europe are shifting to a quick solution to earn money). Other things too like breaking down a duck, chicken, a part of the pig and more.
This is what happens when the owner is not a chef......the restaurants that still keeps the breaking down part and the quility of the food are restaurants where the head chef is also the owner of the restaurant and switches course menu's from time to time.... anyways *rant* over :)
Always good to see that you have so much fun with the learning progress!
@@chefpanko i think cutting down costs is a big part of the HoReCa business now-a-days virtually everywhere. I've had the privilige of working with some really good oldschool guys and they share your opinion. The saying: "They don't make them as they used too" is very true. I can understand the normal evolution of gastronomy but I think as a whole we are losing our old school values for commodity, a quicker buck and survival on a market where more managers use the lowest common denominator or Instagram potential over substance.
It was very nice to have that experience with my 82 yo grandma. Some will say it wasn't something so skilled or just something cruel but it felt like reconnecting with my past. Now i am taking care of my few days old baby chicks. Some little guy kept me up the last 2 days cause he wasn't eating, I kept him warm waking up at 2 hours intervals and fed him by syringe. This one I'm gonna keep, I named him Chuck Norris (Ranger breed) cause he is so badass and survived when I never expected it.
@@orlandolzr The same for me I'm not old by all means but I was trained by the older generation chef's during my restaurant apprenticeship work periods. the knowledge they have and the passion can be felt by just watching and talking to them. But nowadays we have uber eats, Deliveroo, takeaway, and many more delivery services increasing the workload of the cooks and harder to predict how much product you need for the day.
That was another reason for me to leave the restaurant, if you want to work with 2 people less but increase the orders without adding extra experienced cooks then we are out.
4 people left including me, with all the respect to them and I, love every one of the people that work there it felt like family but taking away the fun of being a professional cook and that is learning how to do food prep in a restaurant scale.
Sure 3 already left and I was one of the only ones that still knew everything about prepping Sushi, it simply added more workload by replacing 3 experienced cooks/chefs by 3 apprentice cooks. It increased a lot of workload for me I had to keep an eye on all 3 and also teach them how to do certain tasks.
The moment when they completely ignore the most important step in serving people raw fish was my sign to leave. You always need to remove the blood under the belly spine area. The blood will taint the fish flesh and taste, by ignoring the cleaning progress you save time but at what cost? letting your customers eat the flesh that has been coated with blood?
This did not only hurt me but also my mentor, teacher during my apprenticeship, everything my chef taught me has been completely ignored.
Their knowledge of why the Japanese are always disciplined and never skip progress is so valuable and it hurts me to see how western Japanese Sushi restaurant butcher the art and the craft of the Japanese cuisine in order to save time and money......
@@chefpanko ahahahaha... Sorry for laughing but this situation is so common it's hilarious. I know you guys have a great respect for tradition, your elders and your craft. I know you have the best interest at heart, but money is the absolute dictator now unfortunately. I really don't know how the old guys managed to have more staff, worse communication and logistics, more complex recipes made with less productive equipment and still managed to make a profit, while these guys always complain . I've worked with a few Executive Chefs who were absolute rubbish as cooks, hell, one of them actually had his menu handed over by a Michelin Star Designer Chef and he couldn't make a proper creme brulee. They were interested only in order times and look. The finesse of the dishes was ignored because... Using their own words.."the clients are too stupid to notice". Good chefs are considered people who milk their staff, know how to talk the restaurant and hit their sales targets. I came into the kitchen from a different career as a necessity at not the youngest age and still it broke my heart what I saw in 4 different countries in a few quite appreciated establishments. I can feel the quality of your work by what and the way you talk, I wish you find a job where you are not only respected as an individual but your years of training and knowledge are put to proper use!
@@orlandolzr Yeah I have heard "the clients are too stupid to notice" on some of the restaurants I used to work for but left quite fast. Nowadays I think the home cooks are in a way better position to learn than someone that just follows instructions without knowing the ''why'' you need to do certain things in that order or technique at a restaurant that mainly focuses on speed and cutting cost.
With TH-cam you can learn a lot more, sure youtube can't replace the head chef's that actually has build up the knowledge and experience since you work one on one with him and can ask him things directly with feedback. But nowadays the majority of the so-called head chef doesn't even know why they do things in an order they just do it because another chef/head chef or someone that creates the menu for them told them so.
Culinary schools depend on where you take them but most of them at least teach you the basics of how to break down fish, poultry, pork and more.
When I switched from French to Japanese I had to relearn how the Japanese filets the fish,(while some were comparable to the western way, but the details and the switching of knives for 1 fish to maintain the original state and quility are fascinating). Things we don't do in the western way of filleting fish because we are going to cook the fish anyway.
The same for the everyday task while at the french cuisine we pierce and rock chop, the Japanese cuisine slices most of the time and therefore we mainly use the fingertip grip vs the pinch grip. Something I had to relearn too.
What I did miss was that at the french restaurant the head-chef let us create our own dishes and then we taste them together and change them and decide if we want that in the course menu. Or even thinking about a new menu item for the owner's second restaurant (I respect that kind of chef and the owner that gives the creativity to his head-chef and the head chef gives the sous chef the freedom to create).
I also loved his confidence when he decided to hire me (after my stage) he said ''if you work here with me for 6 months, you will be able to work everywhere else after''.
well, with kitchen knives always buy high quality Japanese ones, you get what you pay for.
any information about Dalstrong?
After buying an imported VG10 steel 5 inch Sunnecko "santoku" and a 7 inch AUS10 inch Findking chef knife I noticed that the AUS10 was alot harder to sharpen with a claimed 3000/8000 grit whetstone. I suspect the chinese VG10s (or at least my variant) is lower HRC than AUS10 core material. Alternatively I got tricked with the santoku and they used a cheaper core material.
As for the VG10 I'm actually not entirely sure if they use the an Imported VG10 from Japan with bad heat treatment or that they are just using the Chinese VG10 ''10cr15comov''. Many of the ''imported Japanese VG10'' in the description were mixed in edge retention and quility and I even got one that is at it's higest 57 hrc but it really feels like a 55 or 56 to moe.
A lot of resellers are selling the 10cr15comov as an AAUS10 or VG10, VG10 is the most commen one that they try to mislead consumers with pictures of VG10 but after reading everything carefully you can spot the 10cr15comov, but in some cases you wont find the 10cr15comov and after contacting because of suspicion they just say ''yes Chinese VG10'' or ''it is 10cr15comov the same as VG10''.
AUS10 was indeed the only one that gave me a consitent edge retention across all the brands, however I got a few sellers that tried to sell the AUS10 as an 10cr15comov. And that is in my eyes misleading to the consumers.
As for sharpening, chinese made stones are good enough only the rating of the Grit is off, that is something the Japanese are doing a better job at with thier grit rating that is more precise. But both should manage to get the job done.
Thank you for sharing your experiences
@@chefpanko Yeah, I knew grit ratings were dodgy before I purchased and I relied on reviews where reviewers stated assumed HRC of the blade they sharpened. I sharpened the AUS10 fine, it simply took way longer and the blade left a lot less material on the stone.
@@kratos1590 Another thing is that the Chinese stones dish out faster, at least compared to my Global soaking stones. But overall they are decent stones and get's the job done for a fraction of the price. While the grit ratings might be lower than stated it is still consistent over the complete surface.
Hi, What do you think of the Grandsharp brand that manufactures AUS-10, is it reliable? I'm looking for a Kiritsuke, and there's just one on sale (-51%).
what do u think?? is a good choice(price/performance/quality)?
@@MalleaCL As a company, I wish they did something with my feedback. I have worked with them once and after the review, they never replied back, but before my review, they were very responsive. While that knife's Abalone shell handle looked stunning the handle was very slippery.
Other brands have overtaken Grandsharp in blade grinds and more, so I expect some fierce competition next year when the new series gets released from various brands.
In terms of their AUS10, it is decent just what I expected, but AUS10 is not better than the Japanese VG10 and in some cases not better than the Chinese VG10 10cr15comov*
*if done correctly, currently the only brand that had a good 10Cr15CoMoV is Xinzuo/Hezhen.
Price/performance/quality depends on what knife you are looking at. But in terms of price, I think that many of the brands are currently cutting their profit. The brand value may need to improve on brand value.
Currently, Xinzuo/Hezhen would be my top recommendation in terms of Chinese brand values. The only brand that is responsive to my suggestions on improvements and some of it is already implemented in newer series for 2024. And I have tested most of their series so I can give you more feedback on those.
Yes we should all overpay for a tool to cut meat and vege. Yes Japanese knives are not insanely overpriced.
Which knifes do your recommend from AliExpress please do share a link thank you
My current recommendation can be found here: www.chefpanko.com/types-of-knives/
I will update this list at the end of the year when I find new knives that I like more but that is my current list.
What's the difference between vg10 with 3 layers and vg10 with 37, ect ?
VG10 is a steel-type that is used as the core material, which has stainless properties but can get a higher heat treatment making it harder, and therefore, you get longer edge retention. The edge can be sharpened on a lower angle without sacrificing edge retention (less rollover).
The problem is that a thin core is brittle; therefore, they add a san-mai (3 layer construction). Where the harder core, like a VG10, is sandwiched between 2 softer stainless steel.
This increases the durability and reduces the stress fractures that come with a higher heat-treated core. (You can compare it with your smartphone, the harder the glass, the less it scratches from your keys in your pocket, but the faster it can shatter if it is too thin).
For a quick overview without too much detail, manufacturers like to add a Rockwell scale beside the core material's naming. Cheap knives will most likely only say stainless steel instead of a specific steel-type. For more info about steel, types visit my website: www.chefpanko.com/kitchen-knives-steel-type-overview/
33/37 etc. layers or Damascus layers etc., are only there for aesthetic purpose. It does not add any benefits other than just the looks. You have fake layers that are just lasered or on the blade for the looks and multi-layer Damascus while still fake ''Damascus'' it won't be washed off from multiple washing sessions since the layers/look are made with multiple layers of steel stacked on to them instead of lasered.
Feel free to ask more questions hope this clarifies a few things :)
This is a superb answer, chef ! I purchased my first serious knive, yaxell Mon but saw an offer now for yaxell zen that is 37 layers instead of 3. As far as I understand you, both are same as long as they are made from same vg10? Is just that yaxell zen is described as a " higher up better knive " than yaxell Mon
Thanks for spending time on my crap .hope I'm not too needy in your eyes :)
@@jaanajaana5771, I looked it up. The mon is indeed 3 layers matt finish.
Zen is basically 3 layers (the softer outer layers have multiple layers just to create a Damascus look), so functionality is still the same as 3 layers.
The other difference is that the Zen series from Yaxell is hammered (most likely machine hammered) to create a hammered pattern, but the hammered part helps with food release when food reaches the hammered part. So besides the hammered look, it adds functionality.
So you most likely pay more for the aesthetics and hammered part for the extra functionality since both techniques require an extra step in the manufacturing process.
In terms of core material, if both are VG10 with a Rockwell of 61, they perform the same, but the Zen has the added benefit of a hammered food release pattern with a high mirror polish.
But I also saw that the Zen series offers SG2 steel, and with that difference, it is basically the core material difference, which you can see the difference in the chart on my website.
Hope that this helps, and no worries, I'm here to help :)
@@chefpanko thank you
@@jaanajaana5771 No, it won't add any lifespan to the blade. Since the core is exposed and not sandwiched, you see a line above if you look at the cutting core. That is a cladding line where you see where the sandwich (2 softer outer steel) starts. Of course, no knife will stay sharp forever, and you eventually need to sharpen them on a stone, for example.
At 01:00 you see the line of the Keemake and Zanmai. The Zanmai has been used for years in a professional kitchen and is still performing fine. A VG10 Rockwell 60.(a home cook will not use a knife as long as they do at the restaurant using a knife for 4+ hours a day to do prep work). So with regular maintenance and care, it will easily last you a decade for home use.
Multiple layers can add thickness (but this entirely depends on the manufacturer. You can always ask the seller what the spine thickness is and if there is a distal spine tapering) to the blade, which will affect how the knife goes through food. The thinner the knife, the better it goes through food without splitting.
But the thinner the knife, the less durable it is.
Most knives with a higher Rockwell will last you a very long time. Even cheap knives will last pretty long if used at home; the key is maintenance.
Restaurant use will wear out a knife a lot faster, but with a Rockwell of 61, you should not worry about lifespan unless you drop the knife and there is a big chunk missing (or you went through bone and there is a huge chip).
And of course, with all knives, hand wash and dry before storing. Never put them in the dishwasher.
How many times you can sharpen depends on how you use the knife but again, for home, use nothing to worry about unless you drop the knife.
has anyone done a review on the knife at 4:43
I haven't gotten the opportunity yet to test the knife.
But I plan on adding it on my to-do list since I skipped reviewing since the pandemic and lockdown I was out of work where I test the majority of the knives.
@@chefpanko Fair enough, hope you and your family are safe and doing well and I look forward to your future reviews.
Isn't that the deal with Chinese knives (or watches, or whatever). Some are great, but quality control is poor, so you can't expect any consistency.
Definitely, for the higher priced knives around $50 USD, the knife quility control is currently consistent with the G10 handles.
Wood can use some work (protrusions around the rivets and full tang handle area), Pakkawood is getting better.
The only complain is the design, so the blade profile and the balance point are sometimes very strange but overall the quility is getting better and better for the higher-priced ones (especially when I tested so many I can pick the good ones by just reading the description page).
For the lower-priced knives under $25 USD the quility fluctuates a lot.
@@chefpanko i bought a Mizu Knives "VG10" chefs knife G10 handles from thier kickstarter. $67 on sale or $90 regular. Its very good in edge retention but i feel they took shortcuts in getting a high HRC, like a lower HRC with a good temper would be better idk, never measured it. (Rockwell is only part of the story with good heat treat) Anyway i do several hundred hits on a cutting board dicing lots and lots of beef with it a week and it only needs a few little swipes on a medium stone to get the bite back at the beginning of day. Balance point is weird and heavy. I contemplate getting a proper Tojiro F-807 for similar price but my knife is doing everything i ask.
Great video as always ;) Please I beg you can we get a Wusthof Classic Ikon Santoku (17cm) knife review? :D I cannot find any real review of the knife , it is mostly in some old videos without including any serious details..thanks again ^^
I will keep an eye for a sale currently there is no good deal for that knife :(
@@chefpanko Oh I see..thanks for your answer, you rock :D I will be waiting patienly for your review when you finaly get a good price on a sale ^^
Hey its a little late but I own it and I love it. From all the knives I own this one if definitely my favorite. It just feels right so use it, looks beautiful and is super easy to maintain and sharpen. If you have any more questions I could answer them.
Thanks, trying to find a decent knife under 50 euros to do vegetable chopping. Definitely going to watch all the individual vids you have.
Once you know what you prefer it will be easier to select a specific type of knie like a Santoku, Nakiri, Gyutot etc.
Feel free to ask me anything you want and good luck with searching for a new knife :)
@@chefpanko Well I went ahead and ordered the Findking Nakiri with non oval handle like you suggested. I really don't do the rocking motion so I think this will suit me better than western style chef knife.
Not really happy ordering from China but beggers can't be choosers as they say. For me it's still a quite expensive kitchen knife. Hope it serves me well.
Thank you Panko.
This is what I ordered: www.aliexpress.com/item/32924066701.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.34324c4dPARGQ7
49.5usd with 2usd store coupon.
@@Skeptic2006 I just uploaded a video today about the Nakiri's:
th-cam.com/video/jQKMc0gO5lY/w-d-xo.html
Since you don't like the rocking motion I would suggest you cancel the order of that Nakiri knife.
It has a half-fish belly curve which takes some time to get used to but it promotes a rocking motion a bit more on that knife.
The balance point is middle balanced so acceptable for that knife and profile but since you like the forward chopping a straighter Nakiri profile will suit you better.
Keep in mind that the Nakiri from Findking that you linked is more suitable for small to medium hands.
As for ordering from China Findking has an Amazon store and they ship from an Amazon warehouse:
amzn.to/2KrXNgw
I think this one will suit you better based on the pictures the knife profile is straighter.:
bit.ly/2RM9RLA
So you might want to cancel it and wait till the cancellation is approved or ask the seller to send the other knife instead of the one you ordered.
@@chefpanko I cancelled the order and will get the one you linked.
Have you tried any of the cheaper XiTuo knives? The more expensive ones are from XinZuo. I wonder if these are the same company.
doesn't matter what knife you have, because cut is cut, that's it
Why with damascus knives is it always trust but verify? I'm so sick of commercial fraud!!!😮
Yeah, there is a lot of fraud, especially from unknown brands mostly ''dropshippers''. It is important to see which brand is actually building a good reputation. Seeing the knives being offered at reputable retailers (William Sonoma for example but they have a strict policy and often ask for exclusivity deals before they even list a certain brand) is one of the ways to establish a trustworthy brand.
Can i get a good very cheap knife from aliexpress for under 10 euros?
Im tired of using dull potato knifes... btw are you dutch?
It is not exactly under 10 euro's but for the price there is not much to complain.
It is a knife from Xituo but many other resellers sells the same I did a review here:
th-cam.com/video/eB8aIBUwDAM/w-d-xo.html&t=
The store I bought it from: bit.ly/35gHU2r
This is a probably the same knife but than with an endcap handle logo: bit.ly/2MKj70c (I did not test this knife from this store but I think they are basically the same knife).
And I'm indeed dutch :) Was it easy to spot?
Keep in mind no matter what knife you buy you need to know how to maintain them.
And also many knives from China has a decent edge but some needs a slight touch up on a whetstone.
Hope that that helps, ofcourse a knife that cost more will perform better.
@@chefpanko what do you mean dutch? At some point when I saw a video of yours saying "here in the EU" I wanted to ask if you worked in Amsterdam... But don't tell me you are born in the Netherlands...
@@orlandolzr I'm indeed born in the Netherlands :)
What's the deal with Nanfang Brothers knives on Amazon? Are they legit Damascus & are they any good? I know they are made in China which is sus
Never tried that brand but have heard about them a few times, they are basically using white labels. So AliExpress/Alibaba knives but under their own brand (placing their own brand name on it).
But they might even be part of a big brand in China, which is releasing a lot of new brands under their umbrella.
Which is made in the same factory owned by that brand and then released under multiple smaller brands to figure out the market.
One of those brands is Tuobituo, they manufacture and own a lot of brands (they even are or used to make knives for Dalstrong as you can see a lot of Dalstrong knives with logos and all in their promotional video since they provide custom OEMs and ODM's and Whitelabel knives).
They basically have multiple brands across continents.
In terms of Damascus, most of them are pre-laminated.
But ''Real'' Damascus is not a thing anymore in kitchen knives.
What is considered real = is pattern welded Damascus, multiple layers of steel to create the aesthetic, and usually with a hard middle core.
What is considered fake = is lasered Damascus.
Both are not ''real'' Damascus, but the pattern welded is perceived as the new ''real'' Damascus.
Chinese-manufactured knives can either be lasered or pattern welded (many patterns welded Damascus are pre-laminated and the handle is welded onto it therefore you will see an abrupt Damascus pattern at the neck/bolster area).
Lasered when scratched the Damascus look is unrecoverable, pattern-welded you can get it back with higher polish and acid bath.
Hope that this explains some of your questions.
@@chefpanko yes it does thanks. I've been down a rabbit hole of Chinese knives the last 2 days. All I want to know is where I can find a decent first time Japanese Damascus knife for around £100. Amazon is not the answer I know that. Ideally I need to get it shipped to UK in time for Christmas day so my options are practically zero
@@alextomlinson There are EU warehouses on Ali, Xinzuo is one of the select few that have their knives in an EU warehouse, but with Christmas around the corner, your chances of getting it before Christmas are pretty much 0 indeed even if you order from an EU warehouse which usually takes 1 week to arrive (when I order from Poland/Spain/France warehouses with France being the fastest of around 2/3 days shipping to the Netherlands).
Not sure if Xinzuo has a UK warehouse (AliExpress does have UK warehouses but not many brands are available in the UK warehouses), but usually they are a bit pricier when you select an EU/UK warehouse vs shipping directly from China.
Amazon UK would be your best bet for timely delivery (if the delivery company can manage the influx of increased packages).
Those laser damascus are just rubbish. I got a 9.5 slicer and a 5.5 boning knife from Grandsharp that look like they are from the same range On the slicer i received the "real" Damascus and on the other I got the laser. I hate how they try to fool you only knowing most of the people wouldn't risk the hassle of sending them back.
I found it so amusing when I saw how scratched your knives are. I thought the scratches i've made where all my fault. But I guess they are really sensitive. That raises the question: Why would I choose a Damascus over a normal steel if not for looks? (before ordering mine I thought the Damascus and hammered finish help with surface tension and food sticking to the blade) If they scratch so easily in the hand of professionals, in the hands of an amateur they will look terrible after a few months of mistreatment.
Sending them back is not an option for me shipping back cost more than what I paid for the knives. If they did not state that it was a lasered Damascus on the product page then you can dispute it and go for a full refund without sending the knife back.
You are usually protected by the AliExpress buyer's protection. So the seller actually can't mislead or lie to you but you have to dispute it with enough evidence.
One seller actually paid a full refund and even send a new knife as advertised (he sent a wrong knife so that was very cool from him but that also depends on the seller). I was already happy with a refund and that I could keep the knife was not expecting him to send the actual knife that I had ordered after refund. (but again this was just 1 seller he also asked for a 5-star review for it, I had plenty of sellers that refused to pay me back and AliExpress closed the dispute in my favor because of all the evidence).
@@chefpanko it clearly said in the description 67 layer damascus, 33 on each side plus core... And it clearly is a laser one.. I'm gonna send an e-mail to AliExpress, especially cause i already bought 3 knives from that seller.
@@orlandolzr They are indeed scratching very fast, Damascus is pure for aesthetics, not a real benefit. Hammered does help but is not beneficial for many home uses.
the cladding that you get and all Damascus has cladding on the actual core material, helps with rust resistance, and making the knife stronger.
As for surface tension and food sticking, the cladding helps a bit, but the main reason for it to work is that there is a profile taper. The food will wedge better, and if they have a spine distal taper that will help too. And of course, the type of finish they used on the side helps a lot with breaking down water tension.
The best way is probably a potato since they tend to stick to the blade a lot.
But don't worry about the scratches if you have a lot of knives with scratches you will automatically become lazy in maintaining and just accept the scratches just like me :)
After a while, you won't even notice the scratches :D
@@chefpanko oh and another thing i noticed. The amount of knives sold. I have hard time believing they sold only a few (ex:5) knives of each type in the whole world.
Another terrific/informative video. But as you might recall (or not) I have little faith in products made in China knowing how Chinese companies work/think. Even if there are a few good brands. Like Misen. So far the reviews have been positive. From TH-cam reviews and owners.
China is a country known for making copies. And they've had a lot of practice. From making/selling counterfeit music CD's, fake iPhones, fake Rolex watches and recently copies (or their own version of JP hyprid knives (JP western style knives). Looking very close to what we see from Shun, Yaxell...etc. But in the end they aren't anywhere near the same quality. Will do what they can to save money in the manufacturing process. With questionable marketing (lot of lies). And then there is the customer service. Very few will give you good service. Even DALSTRONG is starting to get a bad reputation...
Misen. I think it's an American company that does it's manufacturing in the PRC. So they should have good CS. Again I haven't heard any complaints about their products or customer service (CS).
In the end, I don't think I feel comfortable still buying anything from a Chinese company making their products in the PRC. Till China has established themselves for reliability/quality like the Japanese and Koreans.
Odd thing...the French. they seem to be in the "middle" int hat they aren't known for making bad products or offer bad CS (Made IN cookware/knives--good reputtion, Le Cruset, Staub...).
I agree CS and Quality control, is not the best and the only thing that makes it interesting is the price point.
Brands like Misen and Griphinity have their own CS, while both are still made in china they also have a random Quality check on the batches of knives. To make sure they are on par for what they ordered the manufacturer to do. So the quality of their knives should be better than buying it from an unknown reseller or manufacturer themself.
I thought that Dalstrong was getting better in CS, when they started they had a lot of bad reviews about their quality control. I have not tried the Dalstrong or the Misen so I can't give my opinion about them.
I share the same if it wasn't for the request of testing other brands I would have stopped after the Xinzuo and Keemake knives. Or in the worst case, I would have stopped buying anything from AliExpress when it comes to knives if I had bought the Sowoll brand first. Like I said it was really a gamble in Quality control and if the knives are good or not.
But on the other hand, if you finally found the knife that is actually worth or even worth more than you paid for then you have hit the jackpot. (But it was a gamble since there were 0 information about those knives online so I started making videos about my experience).
But then came brand like Griphinity, a Swedish company but knives made in China, they have added their own take and design for their knives and that is where my interest started peeking. So now I want to test the Misen that has the same concept as Griphinty. While Griphinity wants to compete in the premium market Misen is just SImple and functional for the fraction of the price.
So I agree, Chinese company manufacturing in China (PRC) you can still get the bad stigma around that. But the USA or Swedish etc company but made in China that is where things get interesting.
Yep, definitely the french are in ''the middle'', like Tefal. It is not good or bad either they just are ''ok'' in ''the middle'' indeed.
What was fun is when I went to Osaka and Tokyo I was actually looking for a Japanese brand for cookware, it was odd to see that all was made in PRC or the more premium Tefal.
To see Tefal as one of their premium brands was very strange and the price was 2x more expensive than in Europe for a Tefal. they did proudly say that it was made in France.
I also could see a lot of cookware made in Korea but could not find a single one that was actually made in Japan.
Brands like the Shun was branded as a domestic brand in Japan, stores like Don Quijote sold them and the section they put them in was with all the knives made in China.
The rice cookers, on the other hand, were all made in Japan.
Chinese engineers are very good. They could make a knife as good as Japanese shun without a problem but not for less money. Therefore they stick to making the most of cheap products and teh whole fricking world is buying the things. They don't think different, they think profit, apple does, Samsung does, shun does, tojiro and wusthof and every other companies do too. They all label knifes that haven't seen a hammer ever as forged for example.
That is the main problem, they can compete with the Japanese or German, but the bad stigma around Chinese made product by a Chinese company is not helping them in sales.
So, for example, they sell the exact same knife the same look same brand, same performance but the only difference is one is made in China the other one in Japan.
Chinese made knife: $100
Japanese made knife: $100
Despite being identical the bad stigma around Chinese made will let people buy the Japnese made one over the Chinese one.
But other brands that actually have quality control and check the knife at every batch can help in that aspect.
Same with Apple products, American company but every part is made in China, but Apple has strict quality control. (Designed in California)
So saying that all Chinese made knives are bad is kinda misplaced.
I know why they say it and why they think what they think, I would have thought the same if I had a few bad orders.
But I hope that this video explains both sides since there are definitely some hidden gems on ALiExpress when it comes to knives but unfortunately there are bad knives too.
@@emeukal7683 Perhaps there are some good Chinese engineers. But clearly the way they do business isn't. Blame the decision makers in their companies.. The executives. Mostly underhanded. Lie about specs. They are a nation of copy artists. THAT is where they excel. In all they produce. Most of their knives are low quality.
They're aren't concerned with establishing a good reputation for great quality and customer service. If they were they would have.
All they care about is the bottom line. Profits. In any kind of business they're in.
@@chefpanko as I said to another. It's not like they can't.. It's that they don't care to.. make high quality products and be honest. That's not their approach. Or they would have a few companies with good reputations.
Misen. American company. Cookware message in the PRC. People say good quality. Customer service department is in the USA.
Apple. American company. Some parts made in China. But require strict quality control by I guess an shrivel team.
Had it been a totally Chinese company based out of China..
Again. It's not that they can't they just won't. It's not their business model. It's in their mindset. How they think. Part of their business culture.
If you hire a Chinese home renovation company.. they have the same approach. Being less than honest. I work from experience.