Dedicated to death - The story of German navy cook Karl Knörzer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- Video detailing the investigation into a WWII German helmet that was found near Toulon, southern France, with the name Knörzer painted inside. The helmet may have belonged to German Kriegsmarine cook Karl Eduard Knörzer, a former resident of New York, who was killed during an American air raid on Toulon in March 1944.
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World War II - 1939 -1945 - German helmet - militaria collection - ancestry - genealogy Volksbund - research - Lagoubran cemetery - Dagneux cemetery - New York City - Buchen - helmet decals - wehrmacht - how to research a German soldier's family - Liberator air raid - WASt Bundesarchiv - Volksbund
Think about this his son Walter is an American citizen (birth right citizenship) and American's killed his father
I had not thought of that. It almost becomes a friendly fire incident.
War is madness. Millions of people give their lives, but this is the most valuable thing a person has. This cook could have lived for many years, he could have cooked a lot of first-class food during this time, but instead Hitler sent him to his death.
As American, its statistically more likely to be killed by another American than otherwise.
Since they moved back to Germany when he was still very young, i really doubt he would think about that in that way.
He was checking that the food didn’t burn, then he got burnt. RIP.
The American son's father was part of an army killing, among others, Americans
Thanks for putting the human spin on many of your stories. My mother was an U.S. Army nurse in the ETO. To the day she died she prayed and grieved over a "poor German boy", who was shot down in a fighter and was horribly burned. He eventually died. She lived to be 85 and talked often about the war years. She went over to England in May 1943 to December 1945. She was in the 3rd Army.
Poignantly women are mothers to all.
My father was an MP in the early 1960s in Kaiserslautern. He was called to an accident scene at an outlying village. A 3/4 ton truck had missed a sharp corner and smashed into a house wall instead. The US driver ejected through the window and probably killed hitting the wall with his head.
An elderly German woman ran to the scene and had the US serviceman in her arms on the ground. She was crying, trying to rock him awake and singing softly to him, and stroking his hair. My father often spoke about witnessing this crash scene. That elderly German woman most likely lost a son in WWII and was trying to make amends for an American mother who could not be there for her deceased son. Really moving.
Being a cook his priority is the food. Having been married to a baker I know how seriously they take what they do.
That, or the priority was to shut the stove off.
That, plus an army marches on its stomach, as they say. Cook is easily one of the most essential and underrated military positions, at least relatively speaking.
It's called work ethic.
Germans are renowned for it.
Gotta make it about you huh?
@nexaentertainment2764 My father was a cook in the army . And strangely enough I was a cook in the army cadets. Lots of memories from those years.
Whether or not the helmet belonged to that man, it brought out that story. It was a good story and video and many thanks to you and to Herr Knörzer for sharing the story of his father.
Thank you for bringing us the stories of those who served so that none will be forgotten.
чтобы не один нацист не был забыт? а вы умны)))))
@@borodarust870 I knew there will be some a*hole answer, why did I read it...
@@aramisortsbottcher8201 нацисты европы закройте рот
As always, I was glued to your video. Thanks for sharing that story with us. I'm sure the Knorzer family
was equally thankful that some one looked into this detail. I am never ceased to be amazed by your
detective style of getting documents and pictures.
It's a shame that Karl didn't elect to stay here in America and raise his family.
Indeed, instead of Tim Horton's, we would have "Knörzer's donought's" had he not returned to take up the family bakery in Buchen!
Dr. Gassend, thank you for sharing your research on the German helmet. It's a very sad story. I was left wondering how Herr Knorzer's wife (and four children) managed after his unfortunate death. Living in Germany in the aftermath of WWII had to be extraordinarily difficult.
There were about 4 million other families in the same situation in Germany alone, let alone the Soviet union, etc.
There is a gentleman in my EAA chapter who was born in NYC to German-born parents and returned to Germany in the 1930s. His father was sent to the Eastern Front and lost his leg. He told me a story of American bombers dropping their bomb loads into the mountains near his town when they couldn’t find their intended target. He was a few hundred yards from them as they fell. That same guy returned to the USA after the war and served in the U.S. Air Force in the 1950s and early 1960s. His story can be found on TH-cam.
It sounds like "Little Werner wants to fly"
Thank you Jean Loup! Your videos are always so fascinating. You give an identity to the fallen. So touching in so many ways.
A cook doing his job. Bless him, his family, and sacrifice. You do God's works sir.
He was drafted as well. Seems like a stand up guy who woulda lived long and happy staying in NY.
My 8th Great Grandfather was born in Saxony, in Ostfriesland. He moved to Amsterdam for employment where he married my 8th Great Grandmother, a Dutch woman. She died giving birth to my 7th Great Grandfather. Later my two Grandfathers and a step Grandmother moved to New Amsterdam, which is now called Manhattan, New York. I love Germany. It is my ancestral homeland. The great loss of life in Germany in WW2 breaks my heart.
Just to clarify, Ostfriesland is part of Lower Saxony, which is distinct from Saxony.
So many caught up in the madness of war. He seemed to be a good guy. Thank you for your research into the history of these items.
Hi, I was watching your video while gaming when I heard the name of his home town, Buchen. I was quite surprised as I am from there. I even know the bakerie (now its not named Knörzer anymore) and I had a good friend named Knörzer (There are quite a few people named knörzer here). Sadly the son, who send you the letter, died on 22. August 2022, as I found out by a news report from our lokal newspaper "Fränkische Nachrichten".
Thought you might find this Interesting :)
I am extremely happy to find out that one of my videos can help locals realise the hell that their ancestors had to live or die through. Your game over had a different meaning than theirs.
I am very happy to hear that this video helps you to realize the hell your ancestors lived through.
Do you recall the name of his bakery nowadays?
@@andrejsekuloski6888 Hi, im not 100% sure. But from what I could find it is either Wittemann or Webers. And Herr Knörzer lived right around the corner on Vorstadtstraße 28.
@@lucatta6103 Thank you so much for this information! :)
Thanks again Jean, another touching story told with utmost sensitivity and respect!! 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤
I love your research and the life stories they reveal. Please keep sharing these!
The stuff you do on TH-cam will be used in classrooms if not already...love ur work
Going back and forth was common. An in law of mine her grandfather went to the us to work and send money back to Jamina Yugoslavia where there was a German enclave. He spent decades in the US working and sending money back to Jamina build that house. In 1945 they were forced to leave the region before the Soviets and abandon the house to be claimed by whoever. They went back in the 1990s to see that family house again that had been built with US currency decades before, it was under new ownership.
Didn't go so well as the new owner wanted to know if they arrived to demand ownership of the house back.
Love your videos. I like how you show your research. It shows how helpful it is to think outside the box.
The "cactus" is in fact a palm treee.
Another good video. It also explains the more human side of this conflict.
Jean you have such intricate attention to detail. Your research on these war finds is my favorite ww2 history channel.
great video once again!!!! super research and work! That helmet looks to be an M35 german helmet. Looks like SE maker helmet with a 3200 series lot number. my research shows that they where making SE kriegsmarine helmets at that time so who ever told you its not kreigsmarine is wrong! The tri color shield was most likely removed per 1940 order which made many german soilders remove or paint over the tri color shield! If that helmet has the maker SE stamped on it,{found on the side of the helmet near chinsrtap bail, you have a very, very good chance its a kreigsmarine helmet. I do alot of research on these types of helmets and the maker SE was a well known maker of kreigsmarine helmets! hope this info helps. ALSO to note the lot number on that helmet is a four digit number 32?? i found in the german helmet lot book other kreigs helmets like m35 se 3184 single decal kreigsmarine which is very close to your lot number of 32??
The helmet is indeed SE. The lot number apprears to be 3250, with the 5 not being certain.
I had posted this on the Wehrmacht awards forum, and I was also contacted by a random French collector, and the conclusion of everybody seemed to have been that this was not a KM lot number. I have no idea as I dont have the reference material, and in any case I think Heer helmets could well have been issued to KM personnel, particularly if the decal was already heavily damaged.
If you are right though, then that is a nice piece of evidence that increases the probability that the helmet may have belonged to our cook.
The liner band is 1940 type, and I see no trace of decal removal, so I dont think this helmet ever had a tricolor decal.
Absolutely love your channel. There’s not another one out there even remotely similar to what you do. Like many, I wish you put out videos more frequently, but finding content like you have is time consuming and difficult. Please keep up the good work!
This is my absolute favorite TH-cam channel as of late, happy to see a new vid
Thanks. I am currently setting up a twin channel in french, so busy with that as well.
Very nice story and a tragic ending , love the great research you accomplish !
His picture in the South of France is a Palm tree, not a Cactus. Your videos are terrific! I really enjoy them!
Amazing story! great job bringing humanity to all parties involved in the war. PS: I lived in Miltenberg am Main an was quite taken when I read that the wife came from that town! Keep it up the great job you are doing!
Fantastic video as always. The damaged B24 Liberator was from the 376th Bomb Group, part of the 15th Air Force, and it is recorded as having made it home safely. The pic was indeed taken over Toulon, although it was during a raid in August 1944. Thank you again for the videos that you put out there.
This is a fantastic video and filled with interesting information!! The cook maybe wasn't wearing that helmet, but it's nice to know his story and awesome his son contacted you.
Aged 75 with a life long dedicated interest in WWII can truly say the tragedy of WWII killed mostly good meaning men on all sides. Resent the political shadow thrown only on one sides without regard to individual souls and remain astonished Yanks are not called Demstazis nor the Brtits Churchazis. Say that knowing all males on both sides of the family gave Canada thier best against both Germany and Japan with sacrifice. Serious research about German Nightfighter types (killed an uncle & crew) led me to former Active Luft members who without fail helped and proved they were not just gentlemen but real men.
The war was a tragedy, like a flooding river that captured all in its movement.
Hope some German reads this and accepts the sentiment with understanding.
My theory is that in war, the 1% of extremists in the population manage to cause the rest of the normal 99% to kill each other.
We can criticize the Germans, because obviously the French, British, Americans, etc, had an impecable record when it came to civil rights, colonization, respect of minority and gay rights, respect of international conventions, etc 😆
I appreciate your words. It always sadens me to read comments where all Germans are called Nazis and sometimes they even show hatred to the contemporary Germans. As a teenager I too "hated" some nations that took part in the war for what "they" did, but luckily I have grown out of it and see the participants as individuals now.
80 years and three generations later this conflict still finds victims.
I wonder if you could try to match the style of handwriting on the helmet against his actual handwriting to see if there are any similarities?
Thanks for the videos by the way. Great work 👏
This is certainly an interesting and fascinating video! Thanks for sharing the research results and the story of this "common man" soldier's life. 👍👍
Brings to mind my father, drafted having just turned 34 spring of '43, with 10 and 7 year old sons. Did six months at Camp Santa Anita, California, then two years at Fort Lewis as a driver mechanic in a transport unit that serviced POW operations at North Fort. They always seem to find something for the old men to do in a war. He never got home to Iowa in that time. Dad was a printing pressman by trade.
Germans that age were sent to the front lines unfortunately.
@CrocodileTear ; A few Americans were too.
Fascinating. As a female army veteran, I can truly appreciate the work you do. These historical artifacts are incredibly important to humanity.
I would file this under "Most likely belonged to". Not 100%, but probably.
Great video! Obviously it's impossible to 100% verify it was his, but it's really cool to see all the facts come together. I'd still say the odds are in favor of it being his..
Fascinating and always really educational many thanks indeed for such great videos please keep doing them
There must be a sample of his writing from the family that could be used to possibly match the helmet writing.
The painting may have been done by the company artist.
Excellent idea. Good detective work
@@CrocodileTear Yes, but I kind of think it would be worth an email or phone call to ask.
@@thommykent7785 Indeed, I should have asked, and also asked why they returned to Germany.
I don't think this would prove much of anything, writing with a paint brush is very different to writing with a pen, so it will naturally look different.
Would have been worth taking a punt at in any case. And, if nothing else, it would be a very interesting addition to the story to see something he might have been writing home about.
Amazing story, I can't help but wonder about all of the stories that will never be told!
Great video! Thanks for sharing.
It's nice to see not every German was a bloodthirsty killer. People forget many were service personnel that did support not combat.
not every grey coat was a nazi, but every nazi wore grey or black.
Thanks again for a most interesting video. You efforts are much appreciated. =)
Another excellent video and a bizarre set of circumstances in this interesting story. I would think that it is his helmet, given the name and location. Thank you for your videos.
Holy smoke😢 Great video and research ❤
A old family letter might confirm the handwriting 🧐 I'd recognize my brother's after decades without a direct comparison.
Thank you for another excellent video your work is extremely interesting
Thank you. Another excellent and very interesting video.
Very interesting video - and as you say - a sad irony in the manner of his death.
Many thanks.
Maybe he wanted to avoid starting a fire? I imagine he'd be in trouble if he accidentally burnt down the barracks kitchen.
Merci beaucoup pour vos recherches et pour ce récit
Bonjour. Il faut voir la vidéo en francais maintenant. Cherchez ma chaine "CrocodileTear en Francais" :)
@@CrocodileTear Ok, je viens de m'abonner sur le site en français, vos recherches sont toujours intéressantes à regarder et a écouter.👍
U are doing something different sir ❤❤
Love from india ❤
Awesome video and research again! 👌
Yes a sad story and ironic as you said……things you think about in the heat of war…” I’ve left a pot in the oven”🤦🏻♂️…. How fate takes a turn🥴
excellent work here and very interesting, thank you.
Excellent story!! Thank you.
Perhaps you could check out the story of James Donald Cameron, died 1943 aboard the HMS Celendine, our grandfather. 🇬🇧☘️📚
Good work. Thank you.
Outstanding research !
He probably though he lucked out being an army chef as opposed to infantry.
Great research as always.
Fascinating!
thank you for the video.
Helmets are issued and re-issued, so the provenance for them is difficult to determine.
That is certainly also true.
I was going down the comments to see if anyone brought this up 🙂
That was exactly my thought, I’m thinking this was PROBABLY his helmet, just reissued. Apparently he had to get to a shelter in a hurry and likely left his helmet somewhere safe on a shelf or rack.
If he was posted somewhere semi permanently, that particular facility may have just repossessed all of his usable gear and set it aside.
When it was reissued, the new owner didn’t bother to line it out or paint over it…. or if he was anything like me he would just keep track of it by thinking “ my helmet has that Knörzer name painted in it”
…Anyways, I just like thinking about these types of things and the mystery surrounding them.
I visited "Toulon" in 1980, in the US Navy, wonderful people esp. the French Girls, The food was TOPS.
I wonder if he knew Carl Kunkel who also was a chef in New York and then left for Germany and served on the eastern front. The story there is very interesting if you want to hear it.
Can you compare his hand writig to any documents he may have written on?
No one going to talk about the bombers wing and how its still flying?
B17s among other bombers were capable of taking significant damage and continue the mission. Feat of engineering those days.
@@mobius-1503 It's a Liberator, so "other".
great vid croc
Hi. Great video. What is the name of website you are searching for german soldiers killed in WW2?
The website of the Volksbund. TH-cam doesnt let you post links.
EXELENT,Sir.
Interesting research, although it's still not certain. Thanks for making this video.
Great and interesting video! I would have liked to know the helmet factory code from this helmet, as it is another clue whether the decal is Kriegsmarine or not. I suspect this helmet is an «SE» which correlate with the components used for a Kriegsmarine helmet produced in 1940.
Thanks for the video Jean-Loup. Very interesting story even if the helmet isn’t his. If the son had provided you with something the soldier had written would you be able to confirm ownership or is that not a likely avenue of approach?
I dont think so, because you dont write like you paint, and furthermore I think the painting was often done by the "company artist".
Monsieur, was there such a thing as the"company artist"? Or, as would be in the American Infantry i knew, just one talented guy who helped folks out for favors?😊
@@SST11B It probably depended on the company ;)
Could the identity be proven by the personal style od writing the surname i.e. comparing letters/documents/identity papers with the inscription of the surname on the helmet?
Great to see an individual who just wanted to cook but had to join up be recognised but otherwise forgotten for all time. I wondered if the helmet would have any traces of DNA left on the liner.
Informative
Are you being a bit too conservative in saying the helmet is "probably not" his? It sounds like a persuasive circumstantial case to me, though not, of course, a certainty.
Remember wars are fought by fathers and sons not politicians
Hi Jean-Loup, have you tried to cross check the size of the helmet with his military records - if they are available ? It looks like a small size to me from what I see in your video . Excelent story , thanks.
The sizes are not written in the soldiers file. I think they are in the Soldbuch, but I dont have that.
Fantastic 😮 and totally surprised 😯
That cake, that cake was much too much.
That cake was much too much.
May be his son has a signature or a hand writing sample to look for coincidences on the letters writen on the helmet
Maybe I’m seeing things, but if you zoom in on the base of the painted K of his last name, it looks like the letters K and E have been scratched into the paint. Anyone else see that?
A wonderful human interest story highlighting one of many young men on both sides of the war who died while doing their patriotic duty. Rest in peace.
Very interesting story!
I feel that this story had to be told. God rest his soul
A few years ago I bought a German helmet from the Dick Winters Collection at the Gettysburg Museum. It has a decidedly gold decal that is in pretty good condition. I assume it is Kreigsmarine but wonder if any other service received gold decals. Can you help me?
Only the Kriegsmarine had golden decals. The issue is differenciating a real golden decal from a yellowed army decal. Supposedly the KM decals as a "tridimentional" look to them. I am not an expert on this, but you can post photos on the Wehrmacht-wards forum that is very good for this sort of question.
If an entire color is going to be missing from a decal produced during the first half of the 20th century, yellow has to be at or near the top of the list... colorfastness was terrible.
Cooks in the army have a good life.
It depends, as the video illustrates.
Très bon merci
Vous pouvez la voir en francais sur ma nouvelle chaine "Crocodiletear en francais"
My grandfather would come from Poland to america to work and go back and fourth until nazi attacked Poland and he was not allowed to leave Poland. He was 13 when www 2 started
In all probability, it may very well be Karl Eduard Knörzer's helmet, but the lack of the smoking gun evidence, you can't guarantee that, try to eliminate the presence of other Knörzer's being in that area at the time.
Without the full history of who bought and sold the helmet and where it came from, that still does not certify it as his. It could have been brought back to Toulon by a French soldier who was on the occupation forces. It is unfortunate that there is no service number.
Exactly. There is no evidence that this is a KIA helmet. To eliminate the presence of other Knörzer's, I would have to see all 500 or so files, and that is currently not possible without a major money investment. Even if all other Knörzer's are elminated from the Toulon area, we dont know for sure if the helmet was originaly found there, as we have no info from the person who initially preserved this helmet after the war. That is the problem when context is lost....
Very interesting video.
RS. Canada
The helmets were repainted for camouflaging purposes, usually the decal was scratched or wiped with solvent to allow the new paint to adhere better (glue covering the decal or clear varnish), 99% of the "camouflaged" helmets shows damaged decals when the outer layer of paint is removed. This helmet was wiped with solvents, damaging the golden outer layer of the Kriegsmarine decal, but the aluminum base retained the ink contour of the eagle and swastika. Super nice find, I bet the helmet was left in the kitchen when he ran for the shelter. Astonishing dedication to work.
There is no evidence there was ever any camouflage paint on this helmet.
@@CrocodileTear Man, if you can not see that there is green paint applied on the base color (covering a damaged decal) you need to rethink your way of approaching these subjects, Camouflage is considered as:1 Base camouflage paint (KM is green bluish), 2 first light tone paint to match the surroundings (in this case medium green), 3 eventually add more colours following a scheme (bunker, panzer, but not in this case). Any paint mimicking green is universally considered camouflage.
@@Light-Machine-Gun I dont have the helmet in hand right now, but have only seen one color on it. No second layer, etc, no evidence of it having been repainted, and no paint over the decal remains.
You don't have the helmet? I see. My suggestion is that when you have post it on Wehrmacht Awards Forum, or Warrelic, just to confirm that is a KM.
@@Light-Machine-Gun I posted it on WAF many years ago, and the conclusion was that is was probably not KM.
5:02 un palmier plutôt qu'un cactus :)
En effet, ma lague a encore dérapé ;)
Vous pouvez maintenant voir mes videos en francais aussi. Cherchez "Crocodile Tear en Francais".
Great bit of research, even though you cannot say definitely that its his helmet. So many soldiers will have died in car accidents etc etc. I remember once reading of an RAF mechanic on an english air base who was riding his bike ....he turned around a blind corner and straight into the spinning propeller blades of an aircraft.....there was nothing left of him. I have 3 ww2 german helmets and one of them has the gold look to the decal but it is due to age rather than it being navy. The families life would have been so different if they had stayed in the usa .....cheers Jean-Loup 😊
If he had stayed in New York, nobody would now what "Tim Horton's" is, instead there would be "Karl Knoerzer's" at every street corner :)
@@CrocodileTear I had to Google 'Tim Hortons'....I'd never heard of it!🤣🤣
Lot numbers are only a good reference whether you want to know if your helmet should have a decal or not (when it was produced etc) one lot number can have SS, heer., Luftwaffe, kriegsmarine helmets. It doesn’t say what decal it should have.
I dont know anything about these lot numbers, but it seems I am told everything and its opposite about them :)
@@CrocodileTearis the lot number 3296 or 3290? And what is the maker ET, Quist? I have the book and I can see in what year this helmet was produced
@@collectionofhistory44 It is SE, and I am not sure about the lot number as I dont have the helmet under my hand at the moment.
That is my husband’s last name! We use the ‘oe’ instead of the umlaut.
There's no such thing as a coincidence.
It's his helmet.
Im curious could the signature inside the helmet , match any of his writings or could the family recognize it.
Names were often written by the company artist, not the soldier himself.
@@CrocodileTear Thank you, makes sense . I do have helmets that have signatures (liners) in pencil , would that be from a soldier ??
@@tomhaigler58 Probably yes. The signatures you see probably look much more messy than the painted name on this helmet, right?
@@CrocodileTear yes they are not as nice as the one you have. Also as time has gone by the names are getting very faint. I had a complete full name on one but now it is too faint to read. The only ones that last is ink .