Do you think solar and battery powered ships will catch on like we've seen for electric cars? Go to brilliant.org/Undecided to sign up for free. And also, the first 200 people will get 20% off their annual premium membership. Also check out Why the Airship May be the Future of Transportation: th-cam.com/video/_phicOPoQT8/w-d-xo.html
Battery powered ferry’s are being developed a lot in Europe these days. My wife is a marine engineer working at those kind of projects. Ferry’s can charge their battery’s during the night and give them just enough boost by quick charging during loading and unloading passengers and cars to get through the day. Solar could help during the summer months but definitely not during winter. For cargo ships the demand for power is way to large for battery’s. Even hydrogen or alcohol is very difficult because of the massive storage that is needed for those fuels.
I still like sails. Free solar energy that works at night. Solar plus batteries would be the backup to maintain steerage in times of no wind, but with satellite weather forecasts that should be a rare event.
Hi Matt! I built a 8m solar powered catamaran in 2012, in 2022 I will take it out and change/update its design and electronics. Get in touch if interested about the project. I would say solar is great for recreation yachting- it has a few issues for commercial transportation.
Being a yacht captain and an electrical engineer, I find it "facinating", for lack of a better word, on how this "unlimited" ranges are advertised. Anyone that has piloted a boat knows that in anything but perfect weather completly flat water, the power necessary to keep a certain speed changes all the time... yes, you can go 2-4kn with very little power, BUT, if you face any kind of head wind, you might be going much slower on even backwards, at that original power level. Same goes for current or waves... (ask any amature on a Stand Up Paddle boarder how hard it is to go against even a small breeze). Also, peak solar output does not last for more than 2 hours a day... IF (and big IF) there are NO clouds, you will get peak solar power for 1-2 hours around noon. Depending on where you are, you might get another 2 hours on each side (morning/afternoon) of 50-70% peak power and the rest will be bellow 50% peak (if not much less). So your "unlimited" is probably true only for 4-6 hours a day... I'm all for electrification and renewables, don't get me wrong, but this ads are mostly misrepresentation of an over optmistic scenario.
Sails/wind wings seems much more plausible solution to me. The world will partly move away from the just in time production methods after this crisis and that might make sails more viable for certain goods transport.
Most likely the solution is green hydrogen produced with wind and solar and then burned in internal combustion engines aboard at least the large freight ships. Hydrogen ICEs are coming fast and they will blow fuel cells out of the water. When you need 20 MW of axle power you need a massive engine. Direct solar and wind are cute but lack the power density, reliability and coverage. If you need to maneuver in bad weather or a tight shipping lane, gimmicks don't cut it.
Sailboat diesel is called the auxiliary for a reason. It is not a green paddle for typical conditions. Most boats already have solar for typical elec needs. The auxiliary is for when that isn't enough.
Shouldn't be that much of a problem for a pleasure boat though. I'd gladly adjust my trip to the weather conditions, if that means I can get rid of my noisy outboard and the smelly fuel tank.
I don't have a yacht but I am also an electrical engineer and I am so glad someone else can see this is complete BS. I have personally always thought the future would be something more like proton exchange membranes or something similar. I live in a 100% off-grid house with 300kwh of LiFePO4 batteries and 30kw of solar, and I still have days my software kicks in and shuts high draw items down. Solar is nice, but will never replace our current reliance on fossil fuels. At best it might slow it down a bit.
One of the other important things to note with solar / electrically powered boats, is less noise. It's a genuine problem that the shipping industry generate a lot of noise pollution which affects marine life.
@@seanleith5312 “What, Sir? Would you make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck? I pray you excuse me, I have no time to listen to such nonsense.” -Napoleon Bonaparte's answer to the inventor of the steam powered boat, 1803.
Proud to see that you featured the Aditya boat from Kerala, India. Kerala is also home to world's first fully solar powered airport, Cochin International Airport.
There are plenty of people here saying it cannot work, and yet you have examples like Aditya where it's actually being done. As the old saying goes, "those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those doing it."
Recreational boats and lake ferries are definitely the best application of solar power in vehicles. Low power, they soak in the Sun all the time, they don't have on-board high power devices that require power beside the engine and don't go fast. The low noise definitely aids the enjoyment and if you're dead in the water you can always row or simply sit around for a while and you'll get power back. I'm highly skeptical for anything else. The cost is hardly worth what can only be an auxiliary power system.
One thing not mentioned is that many ships have been electric for a long time. Nuclear vessels in military are electric motor run and many large vessels also use their diesel engines to drive generators that run electric motors so electricity never really did go away.
There are already people running boats on 100% solar power in not so perfect northern conditions, so it is even better in more southern sunnier tropical conditions, it is definitely the future of boating.
Short answer: no. Long answer: it could largely mitigate boat emission but not eliminate them. The energy requirement for commercial boats FAR surpass the surface area needed to supply the energy required via solar cells only.
@@scootalong4254 if they didn't have to do 30 knots for $ reasons, they could do about 10 knots with solar power. We need to rethink our shipping. The largest 3 container ships create as much sulfur dioxide as the entire United States's vehicles.
My uncle has an electric mono haul sailboat where weight isn’t an issue. It’s great, so much better than a Diesel engine, no oil changes or noise and the whole transformation from a 15hp diesel to a similar 15kw electric conversion was only about $5000, cheaper than replacing the diesel
You must not sail. The diesel is backup for energy and navigation emergencies. Removing the diesel on a real sailboat is ignorant. If this boat is used occasionally during nice weather it doesn't matter what auxiliary it has.
@@artsmith103 I sail. Diesel is only a backup or seen as required because electrcity solutions weren't ready yet this is no longer the case. Electricity solutions are now outperforming diesel counterparts in like for like use cases
@@ElliottParkinson There is no way to store the equivalent of 10 gal of diesel in jerry cans on the rail. There is no equivalent to being on the hook in less than sunny weather and taking the dinghy to shore to fill a couple jerry cans with diesel. The practical cruiser is about 40'. Barely enough room for 2-4 300W panels. 2 panels is typical minimum to power fridge, electronics, RO water and such for 2 people. 1-2 additional panels is not enough to power the boat in adverse situations which usually includes clouds and darkness. For example, 300W panel for 3 peak equivalent hours per day is almost 1kWh. That is equal to ~1 cup of diesel! Typical fuel rate is 6 miles per gallon. So that is less than 1/2 mile per day per panel. That's plenty in and out of marina, useless in open water.
@@artsmith103 indeed, useless in open water. But if you sail, you can easily store enough to cruise out of a river to get to the sea and back. Then switch to sails, and even improve performance by motorsailing direct from the panels. Especially with a catamaran. When not motorsailing, you can regenerate batteries with hydrogenerators. With such a setup, diesel isnt required. It works best with smaller boats. 23ft to 34ft catamarans. Im thinking prout rangers, heavenly twins or catalac 8-9m. It doesnt work for all setups of course. But there are cases where it works.
Jamie Mantzel has been making his own for a while. Ultimately, I'm picturing a hydrofoil with enough solar to keep it above minimum 'foil' speed, and just enough battery to boost it up and out of the water a few times.
When you mention that diesel has 100x the energy density of batteties you don't take into account that diesels engines are about 40% efficient when electric motors are close to 100%. Which really makes diesel engines have only around 40x more range per kg of energy storage. Yes, still a lot more, but more managable on a boat. I know all this because i've built myself 2 electric dinghies & currently converting a 43ft catamaran to 100% solar electric with 30kw of solar power (with 4 $200 6kw diesel range extenders instead of standard generators).
Spend enough time at sea and you'll find yourself in a dire situation where sustained speed is needed: running from weather or getting caught n trying to maintain heading, assisting other's emergency, towing, etc.. batteries deplete at the worst times so a backup diesel is a must
It's always been not so clear to me whether electric boats could be a better option than electric cars. Boats have a few advantages to going solar such as: A. There are a lot fewer rules about how slow they can/should go B. They can take up a wider footprint without being too much of an issue C. They never have to go uphill; aside from some big waves, boats are always on a level plane D. Because they're in water, motors need a lot less torque to get moving, and stall current is what really sucks up a lot of power for electric motors E. They can coast more easily. and if necessary, can be pushed by the wind. However, the #1 issue with boats is water adds a tremendous amount of drag, so, you need a lot more energy to maintain speed. So the way I see it, electric boats make a lot more sense for short bursts of travel (like with ferries) where they're not expected to go fast, they're not expected to fight strong winds, and they get enough moments throughout the day to recharge. They also make sense for fishing boats, where you need enough energy to get to your destination, stay there for a long while, and then have enough energy to return. When it comes to international travel though, they seem like a really bad idea.
Justin says: " I live in a 100% off-grid house with 300kwh of LiFePO4 batteries and 30kw of solar, and I still have days my software kicks in and shuts high draw items down. Solar is nice, but will never replace our current reliance on fossil fuels. " LOL. 300kwh is a week or more worth of electricity for a normal household, and it will last significantly longer if you are using reasonable conservation measures. 30kw of solar will easily get you 100kwh/day the vast majority of days, which means 1 below average but not terrible day will get almost 3 days worth of power. The idea that this battery and generation system wouldn't be enough for people is ludicrous, unless you're using it in high latitude and letting the snow block the panels for a week at a time. Even then, you can cut way back on the solar panels and install 1 moderate wind turbine for the same price to get complementary generatioin (one optimized for fair weather, one for stormy) to get the same average generation per day while insuring against one source being unavailable for a prolonged period. For someone who claims to be an expert in this area, Justin sure has a lot of trouble with basic concepts.
One thing about boats is that they are not limited to their footprint for solar panels. With panels that swing out from a position above the center, the area for a solar collection could easily be tripled, not to mention that they could even be used for wind assist. . .
Suezmax ships have engines around 10-20 MW and the entire deck covered with the most efficient solar panels will gather 2.4 MW during direct noon sunlight near the equator. Morning, evening, night, overcast, rain, etc. will severely reduce this generation. The solar panels would also complicate loading and unloading and increase the maintenance on the ship. The same problem with wind sails (kite-like sails or Magnus rotors or whatever) are similar. Having significant added complexity and a fidgety gizmo reducing the fuel consumption by 10-15% might very well not be worth it. They tested out Magnus rotors on a ferry between Finland and Sweden and it just wasn't worth it. The machinery costs millions, requires maintenance and only occasionally reduces the fuel consumption. Woop-tee-doo. It's not worth it. It would be much easier filling up tanks with high pressure green-produced hydrogen and running large internal combustion engines on the hydrogen, come rain, sleet or sunshine.
No mention of keeping the solar panels clean in a marine environment? I can't imagine salt deposits on the panels would be good for either performance or durability.
If you add the fact that new perovskite solar panels could lower the *cell cost 10-100x in long run compared to what we have today,* it would make sense to crate *large custom barges* that would containt batteries and solar panels. These could be towed with high power electric tankers/container ships with much *smaller batteries* on them. This way you could have normal sized container ship that would be able to use currently *built docks,* but you could also have gigantic barges or barge arrays that wouldn't need to dock so often. Water transport is already cheap, but this way it could be nearly free of charge compared to other transportation methods. Also with large excess of energy produced by those barges, and low drag if designed properly, you could possibly start increasing average speed of container ships to levels similar to speeds of slow trains. It would obviously need some necessary engineering and changes to overall container ship desing, but I suppose that's how the future will look in next couple decades.
Ship running costs is by far the biggest bug bear of ownership and operation … this is genuinely a game changer … and once competition hots up and prices drop these ships will make diesel alternatives obsolete in no time. I imagine electric yacht conversion will be a pretty lucrative business now.
@@aussie2uGA Gale Force Twins just did a video on how much it costs to maintain their boat. Now, it's a 2005 Intrepid with the original twin 250hp Yamaha's on it but it does give an idea on how much operating a boat can cost.
I've always said that these 'New' electric cars that have come out (I used to work for a company that brought cars into the UK - Volkswagen/Audi/Skoda/Seat/Porsche/BMW/Toyota/Mini), we discharged them off the ferries, stored and distributed them to dealers). The electric cars like, ID3, ID4, Mi, E-Up!, Golf, Audi Etrons (and many others) MISSED a trick, that the roofs could have had solar panels to supplement charging of their batteries. No, I'm not saying to get a full charge, but think.. How many times is a car (electric or otherwise) sat outside for hours even days between driving? Parked on a drive outside a home, in a work's car park during a shift, parked somewhere during a weekend away, just sat there doing nothing. Even a car's roof has a sizable area to gain SOME charge and to a small extent, reclaim some charge while driving.... ESPECIALLY at the efficiency scales of solar panels today, some offset could be had....🤔 😎🇬🇧
For solar panel powered vehicles, cost is not the biggest hurdle, at least not the panel cost. Panel efficiency is. There is only so much available space for solar panels on a vehicle which means they will be woefully underpowered with current technology. Should one of the future solar panel techs pan out and double the efficiency then solar powered boats will become far more practical. The other thing that would help is the cost of batteries, and capacity to some degree, which will certainly see some significant gains in the future.
3 days in the ITCZ with little sunshine. We were a sailboat with 820 watts of solar and 300 watts of wind generator. Fortunately we had a diesel generator.
Very valid point though for the non technical audience it might be worth explaining that ITCZ is the 'intertropical convergence zone' or 'the doldrums' as it is commonly called.
Oh how I wish I had the money to convert my 46' ketch to electric, ditching my Perkins 4.236M diesel main engine. At today's prices, the lithium ion cells would cost me around $50,000 to get me sufficient range. I don't motor often, so I don't spend much in diesel, so it's a tough sell. :( On the other hand, that large battery bank would supply my hotel loads for weeks - heating/air conditioning, cooking, electronics... one day.
For a similar reason I drive a fourteen year old Ford Focus rather than a Tesla. Elon has enough money already so he does not need my grand children's inheritance. The fuel to feed the Focus is E85, so I do care about the planet whatever the Green Meanies say. _GO BOOMERS!!_
5:12 This isn't true. What is the range of a sailboat?...... Its infinity isn't it? Even though sometimes the wind doesn't blow, we never talk about "range" with a sailboat. Same principle applies to solar boats. Given a 24 hour period, sure diesel boats can go farther. But to be correct... its diesel boats that have a limited range.... not solar boats.
That's an interesting topic for sure. Electric propulsion already makes perfect sense for quite wide marine applications. However there are to big challenges to overcome for people who already want it. Extremely limited choice of electric propulsion systems to choose from. Making a system from scratch few can do, especially for commercial use where lots of strict regulations exist. Laws... So many places still have quite outdated laws that won't easily let people use electric for any commercial use. I'm in Japan, i'm building 30ft catamaran and i wanted to use electric, as from my calculation of use electric would be cheaper and much easier too (solar is just extra). Not to mention i hate smell of diesel or noisy petrol outboards. However i don't think i will be able to do so. Importing propulsion system from US and all regulations in place is a hurdle that is currently quite difficult to overcome. No real local solution. I can't build my own system from scratch either, not enough knowledge and i would not be able to pass safety regulations with self build system.
I seem to have lost my answer to you i will wait to see if it re emerges from the electronic labyrinth. But theres a lot of options out there on U-tube ... and a lot of the components are built in your part of the world. Just kitted up in the USA and Europe.
Take a look at the two conversions here th-cam.com/video/lq6EqAVS4uE/w-d-xo.html With aircraft more small motors and props tend to be more efficient than a larger single motor and prop. Theres a few Wharrams and other cats already running hybrid systems. Look up the Heart of Gold lifeboat conversion. And Sea Japan ... Lighter and better insulated boats tend to make the better E power conversions as do multihulls.
I have a sailboat with electric aux. Let me recommend you consider an electric motor in each hull and a single diesel Genset and shared big battery. When the battery tech improves in 10 years, just upgrade. The electric motors are good for the life of the boat.
@@GuyIncognito764 Thats how i would do it 👍🏼 brushless motors driving shafts and efficient props. As large a battery pack as i could afford to build and solar. Batteries perhapse salvaged from a crash damaged. Nissan leaf, prius Or Similar . The electric motors are virtually maintainance free as long as they are kept dry or protected and dont overheat .. Then a remotely mounted fuel efficient generator or a DIY APU slave motor powering ultra high output alternators... Twin motors in a cat. or trimaran will make manouvring much easier and give you an element of redundancy. Conventional sails are also expensive to maintain and operate so consider alternatives.
In Geneva, Switzerland, we already have two solar/electric ferries... although we still use a large amount of diesel small ferries. We also have a fast charging battery powered bus line.
The incredibly low cost of maintenance has a more interesting use, for establishing semi permanent boats in the ocean. A diesel engine always needs to return to shore for fuel and maintenance. A solar powered isle can just sit out there, maybe for years at a time. Low range may become a thing of the past if an electric boat can just dock at a deep sea solar depot, recharge/swap its batteries and continue sailing.
If you are able to tilt up the solar panels on either side you will be able to get more direct sunlight to produce more electricity. Tilting the panel can also provide a little wind power when the wind is blowing in the right direction adding speed and range.
Everything works great when the sun is out. When it isnt, you dont make enough power to do anything. I have over 15kw of solar on my homestead, and I am making less than 50 watts right now because of cloud cover. Use it where it makes sense
The big problem with solar powered boats arises when there is no direct sunlight to recharge and maintain the batteries. So, to mitigate that problem, we could transition into full electric boats by incorporating diesel generators that would only be used to recharge the batteries when needed - like a plug-in hybrid car. Yes, there would still be a diesel motor involved, but it could be much smaller and use much less fuel than if it were being used to actually propel the boat. If you're vacationing on your yacht without a schedule, pure solar/electric is a viable option - just stay put until the sun comes out, again. But, if you're running a ferry service or hauling freight, you can't afford to shut down on cloudy days.
in the case of silent yachts and they do have cheaper options like silent 44 coming in at 700 000 pounds has 3 battery banks 1 for engine,one for inhouse electrics and one for back up.plus a relatively small generator for crossing oceans and then there is an option of putting a fully automatic kite system that you can sail alone with it at 4 knots or use it in tandom with the onboard system and you will use half the electricity to go 8 knots infinately day and night and this kite system charges the battery as well.with all these redundancy systems one can go anywhere anytime and sail 365 days a year without stopping.there is an older silent 64 vlog about a turkish captain that crossed the atlantic in the dead of winter from cartegena spain to florida.thats 5500 nm and used if you calculate it in dollars in generator fuel with american fuel prices was 600 dolars.and if you want to go fast i mean at 20 knots then the generator will directly supply the engines with electric until you run out of generator fuel and that will probably take you 1500 nm at constant 20 knots.. i hope it helps.;)
@@Matzes That really depends on the size of the generator and the amount of fuel you're carrying. If you're only using the generator to recharge the batteries, the generator could be ten percent the size of a diesel engine intended to propel the boat directly. Likewise, your fuel consumption would be ten percent, as well. And, if you're carrying freight or passengers anyway, the extra weight of the generator and fuel is going to be nominal.
Honestly, your very first point should have been: "Why use solar panels for boats over SAILS?" Because that's the real question here. Sailing is 100% carbon neutral, costs a fraction and works at night (as a tradeoff to not work without wind).
because you can't go into marina's under sail, also the wind does not always blow. Sail and solar is a good way to go which is what i am doing, electric propulsion for going in and out of ports/marinas and sail the rest of the time. Boats also need electric for everyday things, solar is much better than running a generator.
Many years ago my wife and I tried a holiday on the Norfolk Broads (UK). We hired a small diesel boat with a bedroom etc. The worst part of it was the loud noise from the engine combined with the ever-present smell of diesel fumes. The dream of gliding around peacefully on the water turned out to be no more than a dream. An ELECTRIC boat would have made it a real holiday and very pleasant, despite the rather grey weather and boring scenery. Once again, the cleaner, more efficient alternative also turns out to be more enjoyable.
I definitely have thought that out of most applications, things like smaller vessels could benefit from this very quickly, especially since house boats and personal boats are generally docked for a long time in between trips. Things like ferries could also benefit as long as they are charged for the time they are docked between trips and their trips aren’t very long. The range is obviously an issue here for some. Where we go wrong is long haul cargo
Perhaps long haul cardo shipments could be reduced. I don't see a need for consumer goods to be shipped across oceans if nations ensured that most consumer products were produced more locally.
Time to consider 'ABANDON SHIP' the 'local' fire department will probably say 'not much we can do for you' like all fires it will eventually burn out then it is between you and the insurance company.
Yea and no. One thing I worry about is the lack of speed. These electric and solar boats are generally slow cruisers, not able to quickly get up and out of a potentially dangerous situation or encounter. I’d check the option box for “Tesla Plaid boost motors with super capacitors” the moment it’s offered.
@@MrMagnuson the other hand it only has the battery capacity to maintain full power to those motors for less than half an hour and it takes close to 2 days to fully recharge. 17kw is around 20hp. Your probably not going to move a ship that big very fast at that solar input although it would be perfect for island hopping and hanging out for a few days to recharge.
Container ships will always have to get unloaded by cranes above the ship though, unless containers will move themselves or the ship unloads itself. So for container ships to be powered by solar it's gonna be a long way I'd imagine. Maybe indirectly by the port that is powered by green energy. Or maybe the roof can fold up and get out of the way?
They need to be picking up stuff from the ship anyway. So a big company could invest into standardized modules, which can be grabbed and moved by container-cranes. maybe they will fold out or something over the next few containers into each direction. just stack em somewhere until the boat is full, then pop em on top. a person can connect them to the ship's power while the boat is going off on full batteries. stinky diesel generators can add extra power in case there is not enough sunshine. I think it's just an engineering (and will) question.
@@ChrisBigBad it's really hard to move from one standard to the other, because where do you start? That's why Windows XP is still being used for some military applications. The port has to change with the new system as well, and the port will only do that if a profitable amount of ships is using that system. And ships will only use that system if every port they go to can work with it. The company managing this must be owning ports across the world and maybe own its own fleet.
@@The_Andy_H Yes, I understand and agree. Which is why I imagined the solar-cells to fold closed into a normal shipping-container. those can be perfectly handled by the ports as it is. you just need to take them off the top of the ship (if you need to get at the stuff below), store them somewhere with the other containers and put them back on the top at the end and unfold them again. zero change for the port - totally transparent. no?
I was gonna comment 'fingers crossed for scaling up to include container ships' until I saw the 100x energy density difference. I think that might be the bigger issue to start with ?
@@The_Andy_H, It's not just the military. There is a good number of legacy equipment that the original manufacturers no longer support and rely on XP and a few still use Win'98. Until a part fails that I cannot source a replacement for, I'm not upgrading to the latest and greatest.
In many of these solar solutions you need a diesel generator for back up ! The solar panels on my yacht will power the radios , auto pilot , etc and top up the house batteries for evening use IF there is a good amount of sun during the day . They will not propel the boat or start the motor or operate the anchor winch except for a very short time in little wind . Recently a yacht north of us had taken out their diesel and installed an electric motor plus extra batteries . It was dismasted about 300k miles offshore . The batteries soon depleted and they ended up getting towed in . A simple diesel with a few spare cans of fuel would have done the job
Catamarans have a great synergy for renewable propulsion. They are: A large surface area for solar power The same large area for living or passenger space Efficient Multihull configuration requires less power Leverages the advantages of electric propulsion with Minimal maintenance Freedom to be untethered to fuel stations Zero fuel costs
I would just like to remind everyone that wind is concentrated solar energy from miles and miles of "collection pads" (surface aria of the earth) Put the solar panels up the mast and you will increase your eficiency. Increase eficiency even more by replacing the solar panels with a lightweight fabric...
Except that wind is generated by delta of solar energy in those collection pads. If adjacent pads receive the same amount of energy there will be no wind.
when compare the weight , it is something misleading, electric motor is lighter than diesel engine, but the battery is a lot of weight and far more heavier than fuel.
An equivalent catamaran to the Silent 80 is more like the Sunreef 80 Power, which is in the €4 million range and upwards. The monohulls really aren't comparable when you take into account total living area and speed capabilities.
A monohull is faster than a catamaran if they are both heavily loaded. That's why monohulls will always be the standard for transportation. As batteries have very low power density, a fully electric monohull is much better than a catamaran in that regard. But you indeed do not have the same form of living space
@@TheTokkie if you put the same weight on a cat and a mono, the cat would be less impaired. Cats are just better in every way, anyone that sails knows that!
@@killuazoldyck1352 that's simply incorrect. At light weight, a catamaran is faster but at heavy weight the tacamaran has much more drag than the monohull. I'm a naval engineer btw.
Diesel fuel has 100X the energy that an equivalent weight battery has. Diesel (and to a lesser extent gas) is the star performer than has made much of modern shipping possible. The typical "Solar" boat or yacht just entering the market today must contain diesel fuel to power its generator to provide power when the solar is not enough. Hence these modern solar yacht (sometimes called 100% solar) are not viable without diesel as a second source of power. It would be much more dangerous to try to operating a solar power boat offshore without diesel power as a backup.
I think we have to come up with new battery technology... Structural batteries Is Indeed a more efficent way to distribute weight, but immagine having to replace a structural part, because you had a single faulty cell... We need better batteries
In boats weight isn't such an issue... Solar boats with LiFePo4- batteries are already today a viable alternative to diesel for local passenger and freigh transportation.
@@davidsimoneta8513 does it not matter that much? I thought replacing engines and fuel combo on the small and medium sized boats must have been better but now I remember Zack's electric hummer (JerryRigEverything) the weight difference wasn't that significant
Solar power for shipping has a scale problem, the area of the solar panels required to harvest the energy means that the carrying capacity of the vessel (load displacement) is low. In suitable situations such as this it will work but the opportunity for expansion is limited. With regard to propulsion with electric motors powered by ‘green electricity’, leaving aside the fact that there is no truly ‘green’ electricity, the best we can do is low carbon impact both at installation (capital account cost) and production (revenue account cost). Running ships on the ‘lecky’ is tricky; the two examples that I personally know of, and have used, are a vehicle and foot traffic ‘chain’ ferry that ply’s its trade across the hundred meters or so of the Nordre älv between the island of Hisingen and Kornhall on the Swedish mainland. The motors are on the ferry and a power supply cable is unwound and wound back up on board as the ferry shuttles back and forth from Kornhall. When the vessel goes anywhere else, id est dry dock for survey and or maintenance, it is towed by a good old ICE powered tug. The other electric vessel is a vehicle and foot traffic ferry that runs from Helsingborg (Sweden) to Helsingor (Denmark), a twenty minute trip undertaken using energy stored in batteries on board, she tops up the charge each time she is alongside and battery capacity is said to be sufficient for an hour of main engine use. For small scale, low weight, time sensitive, high value cargo (people) direct harvest solar energy could be a site specific solution being most effective in the tropics on daylight hours, good weather, short voyages in protected waters, such as the ‘Aditya’. The advantages are that it is quiet and clean in operation with low fuel and maintenance costs for the drive train; the hull and fittings will however still require some routine maintenance. Electric ships which currently have short ranges and high light displacement in proportion to their cargo capacity if battery storage is added. Sadly as of now, except for niche usage, electrically powered ships are as functional as chocolate fireguards.
and the fact that he compared a solar cat to a monohull in terms of pricing, and assumed that pricing was comparable across manufacturers in similar sized boats. Neither of those are reasonable to do.
I worked for a company and help build 3 tier 50m yachts and the down payment for buyers was $8 million, and $40+ million when completely built and delivered.
I've been following Azure and Silent for well over a year as I love the idea of these boats. They are so much better for the environment and at the time, living in Hampton Va I would see boats out on the water every day and none of them were using this gear tech, though there are a lot of sail boats. Great video as always!
Do you know anything about sailboat's? They are a wonderful thing and in some ways better than a solar boat. However, the sailing community is split on replacing the combustion engine with electric motors. There's many who have already made the change and are very happy with it. So I asked you these questions to show you how strong some people are against change. In fact it will surprise you to know just how evil the thoughts of some are as to why their against change. Just know the bottom line is about money. Blessings and keep on enjoying the water in your own way. I love VA... P.S. just trying to spark a conversation on the topic of the video even if it's a different aspect of the topic. Will you participate?
@@robinabraham2843 yes it is indeed. So tell me, what would you like to add to the subject? Are you just getting into the topic or do you have knowledge of it that you would talk about? I know some stuff but this topic I've found is wide and deep and it's not a one size fits all kinda topic. This I think is the biggest reason it's such an interesting topic. Your welcome to engage me on this topic and see where it takes us and how much we can learn from one another. Blessings to you...
Ferries are a good place to start for solar/battery power. They travel more in protected waters, so they don't need the added "oomph" of diesel in adverse weather. Their runs are shorter and they have the option of recharging when docked. I note that Japan has a number of ferries, large ones that move cargo and with sleeping accommodations for passengers. At least for runs mostly in daylight, solar/battery power might work for them.
A self sailing catamaran powered by the sun, effectively a seafront home with ever changing views that just goes and goes and goes without a single drop of effort on my part.. would be the perfect dream home. It's just too bad that I'm not a sea person.
@@Ron-dx9wq Yes and they're also powered by hydrogen, fission or even the big bang depending on how many steps you want to take. Why do you want to take extra steps?
@98Zai Extra steps?! A rag on a stick compared to solar panels, batteries, motors and electrical cables carrying welding current - none of which will be happy with even a drop of saltwater. People forget that the entire world was discovered and settled before electricity even existed.
I've seen one couple on another TH-cam channel with an electric sail boat. They recently installed an electric motor that can regenerate electric power for them when they are sailing using the wind power. They also have a solar array and batteries. I think that converting boats over from ICE to electric will be more of an incremental transfer. Most boats sail for years and unless there is a real need to convert your already working system then a lot of ICE powered boats will stick around.
I had a work colleague who was ex navy and is now a chief engineer on an exclusive yacht, apparently running the yacht is what will financially ruin someone as apposed to the initial cost of buying one..
boats run on diesel or petrol just like land vehicles, only massive ships run on oil. Modern ships clean there emissions before releasing them, so they are cleaner than most land vehicles. Older ship can be bad, but they are being quickly phased out due to running costs.
A note on mass vs range- Sufficient solar can be applied to move the boat without touching the batteries. Dense enough solar collection would allow it to move in sunlight while recharging the batteries. A current yacht company allows for 18 hours of 5 knot cruising speed per 24 hour period. They supplemented this with a kite sail to allow a cruise speed of 8 knots while recharging. Not perfect yet, but getting close. Alternatively, a solar sailboat gets the best of all worlds. High cruise speed under sail with all onboard electrics being solar, with an electric drive motor for moving under power.
And they were too slow to match modern day needs in industry applications. For pleasure crafts - can still be used most certainly but then the owners would need to learn how to sail.
The idea of electric ferries is particularly compelling because the ferries could do a recharge on each side as their trips tend to be short and known in advance. Saving fuel and maintenance which are the main costs of ferry operations could be very compelling.
Insolation rate in Joules will vary due to time of day, latitude of vessel, declination of sun, (those three impact the elevation of the power source) cloud cover, the efficiency of the solar panels and how clean they are. Solar panels create about 155 Watts m2 averaged out; those Watts might allow you to distil enough fresh water from the sea to wash the crud off of the solar panels (surprise fact harvesting renewable energy does come with some maintenance costs) but nowhere near enough to effectively 'push the boat along'. For small scale, low weight, time sensitive, high value cargo (people) direct harvest solar energy could be a site specific solution being most effective in the tropics on daylight hours, good weather, short voyages in protected waters, such as the ‘Aditya’ ferry in India. The advantages are that it is quiet and clean in operation with low fuel and maintenance costs for the drive train; the hull and fittings will still require routine maintenance.
Those Silent brand electric boats are pretty amazing. If I were rich enough to buy a boat that size I would seriously think of buying an electric one. It's almost a no brainer when you consider the noise, pollution, maintenance and just the cost of fuel. Filling up a boat isn't cheap at all - a 300Nm trip might be $600 of fuel so it adds up fast. Electric boats can practically go forever, certainly enough for how far people normally travel. But like with cars there is a range anxiety to electric and also the more practical matter of cruising speed. So I think there is room for improvement but it's still a very attractive proposition.
For a long time I have been thinking about if it wouldn't be possible to use solar on container ships. When the crane is done loading all the containers on the ships it could load solar-modules on top of all the containers. Maybe solar can't fully power a ship, but if it can reduce the fossil fuel consumption by 50% I can imagine it would be worth it.
solar sourcing energy is fine. the real problem is the storage. most solar / electric based boat cannot sustain faster propulsion as the battery does not store enough energy to do so.
Thank you for making this video since the information you provided is truly fascinating and informative. But here's an idea that I noticed in one of your videos which involved wind powered cargo ships apparently didn't think about trying to combine both this solar power technology with their wind powered technology to power the cargo ship. Because I have noticed over time we as human beings have made one critical mistake and that is is that we're trying to find one piece of technology to do it all. When it would be better to take different technologies combined them together to formulate a more affective clean efficient way of not only generating power but increasing comfort across the planet. Because when you think about it they were experiments done with hydroponic gardens and nothing more was done with them. It said that the technology of hydroponic gardens hasn't been applied into cities across the planet because if they were we could probably solve the world food shortage problem as well as generate incredible amounts of good jobs and possibly make living far more comfortable than what it is today for the average person including poor people. We need to start thinking about taking all these different technologies and pulling them together to build a better life for everyone and I for see that it would eliminate poverty once and for all if people will wake up and think about it.
indeed precisely, This fallacy of progressivism where the the newest has to be 'better' than the old one is not helping humanity at all. and i don't think it's by accident... An Ipad is not a superior technology to a pen & paper or vice versa. it's all about the context in which they'll be used.
The silent yachts are actually offered with an option to include a sky sail - a kite sail that can be deployed to harness the wind for added speed, in exchange for the additional cost of the sail + a little storage space.
Cargo ships need to have overhead access for loading/unloading containers, so what would you do with the solar panels?, now a car carrier ship which has a closed deck on top, maybe, but a container type cargo ship, nope.
@@danmckeever599 That. There's a significant tradeoff between deck space used and propulsion. You could well end up with a ship that can move *itself* through the water but not carry a viable amount of cargo at the same time.
I'm surprised to see India did this. Even I didn't know inspite of being from here. We usually are all talk and no action, but hats off to the company that made that boat.
All talk and no action? It's the only developing country thats able to compete with developed countries in the space race. India also has the largest solar array. You need to learn more about your country. The world has been in awe for a while about how fast India is with technology.
Electric propulsion is a good option for bigger displacement style boats where weight is not an issue. As soon as you want to go fast in a small personal craft the range would be very limited to sometimes one quarter compared to petrol powered boats. The cost of batteries and electric motor would also be way higher. And to have a somewhat decent range, the boat would become too heavy. But for bigger boats where range and speed are not an issue, electric propulsion is the way to go.
There is a lot more that could be said about this topic, Matt. Consider that a 200hp car usually is run at 10-20hp 99% of the time, but a 200hp displacement boat is run at 100hp, semi-displacement at 150hp, and planing at 180hp. Comparing a ferry that probably cruises at 8knots with another one that cruises at 4knots also isn't fair, and just looking at engine maintenance as a percentage is misleading because engine maintenance is just a small part of boat maintenance... really the savings is small, and since all solar boats move at displacement speeds, weight savings is irrelevant. Also I question the cost of an 8knot ferry engine maintenance... such a small ferry would need a very modest diesel engine, and for the costs you mention you can replace that engine with a new engine annual! I would think your estimate is 1000% too high. I do however love the idea and for certain uses it can really make sense. Another topic you might be interested in is sail boats which replace their standby diesel with an electric motor/generator that can generate electricity to power a/c, lights, electronics, and so on... and even recharge the battery bank. That seems the most promising, as all sailboats are displacement boats already. Lastly I would question your comment on the "equitable"-ness of ferry transportation versus private boating. While it is more efficient, I don't think humanity is in such dire straits as to say there is any justification of elimination private transportation (land, sea, or air)... and most transportation systems require tremendous population density for the savings to appear. A subway system in a small Montana town would be completely useless and wouldn't save any energy, and the cost would be more than buying every resident a new Tesla. My $0.02. :)
Brilliant Episode! This kind of technology will make it viable for more people to live on oceans; potentially even having floating ocean cities. Huge potential here!
A great episode 👍 Yes, I believe electric ferries will catch on sooner than we think. In Denmark we already have a couple of interesting projects and Norway is going full in on electric and hybrid ships.
@sp0777iXdlMLalN0dsXxlMlNdsM0jdsj Actually it works exactly the opposite way. The amount of power you need to move a ship through the water depends (mostly) on the length of the waterline in relation to the size of the ship. The longer it is, the less power you need to go at the same speed. So if you want to double the size of a ship, you basically make it twice as long and you need way less than twice the power. That’s the reason why ships are getting bigger and bigger. It just makes them more efficient. And of course the space for solar panels still doubles if you make the ship twice as long, why it works even better the bigger you make the ships.
@@esecallum There's plenty of electric ferries that are far faster, and in places like New York, there's a lot of relatively short ferry trips they could charge during
Silent Yachts are adding a model which includes a kite, which further reduces the need for the diesel generator. So that's a good compromise or enhancement, for not a huge cost increase. There are so many good possibilities that only lack for development effort ($$$). Hopefully we will make these developments in time to keep our planet livable!
I’m looking at installing solar in the next few years, but I don’t think my home is ideal for it. My HOA only allows them on the sides and rear, which I don’t think will work well. The main reason I’m waiting is because I’m not sure if we’re going to stay here. With remote working now permanent, and Starlink internet available globally soon, my family has a lot of options. May move somewhere that I can take advantage of solar, geothermal, drill a well, and have Starlink and live off the grid. Maybe buy a large tract of land in the middle of nowhere (aka no utilities or roads) that wouldn’t be developed otherwise, but still not too far from a larger city and schools and put in a gravel road.
What's always irritating is the number of people who dismiss Matt's detailed research and demonstration of technologies with back-of-the-envelope bs reasoning and "maths" that tends to ignore the examples that have actually demonstrated working technology over long periods of time (months or years). Now, solar-powered boats clearly will not be a solution for all boats (certainly not as solar panels and batteries are now), but they still have a sizeable market they can be applied to.
Could be the future of transportation until it gets too cloudy. My array is 17% below estimate for the last month due to clouds. Thank goodness for grid tie. Solar is a great 10-20% potential to energy pie as long as there is backup.
Using LCOE to compare the cost of photovoltaics to coal is comparing apples to oranges. A better metric would be Value Adjusted LCOE, which takes into account that electricity generated when it is needed is more valuable than electricity generated just when the sun is shining. Pair the cost of storage for a sunny day with panels, and the LCOE for solar will go up by maybe four-fold. Add in the capital cost of back-up natural gas sitting idle to cover three days of rain or heavy clouds and probably the real LCOE of solar is at least 6 times as much as those quoted LCOE's.
Pure Solar electric boats make sense for short trips and niche markets, however they are not practical for long trips. Cloud cover, Nighttime, and early/late in the day, the panels aren't making enough power. They make more sense when used in combination with a diesel backup, or on sailboats.
The Silent Yacht has crossed the Atlantic. The SY60 has 1900 liters of diesel tanks so you can keep cruising even at night or when cloudy while on sunny days you cruise for free.
The "unlimited range" argument is moot. The solar arrays on these vessels barely produce enough power to move the vessel at cruising speeds, leaving nothing left over to charge the batteries. The vessel would be completely disabled at night or on a cloudy day. Okay, add a generator, problem solved. But if a vessel is built with all this solar and battery capacity and adds even the smallest generator, you've completely negated any of the "no-running cost" or "no maintenance" advantages. Instead, the vessel would have been far less expensive and more useful if it just had a diesel engine to begin with. For ferries moving high volumes of people at extremely slow speeds during the daytime only, solar and electric propulsion may work but this is an extremely small slice of the marine market and is likely its only real application. The electric superyachts are just a flex for the ultra-rich. If they actually gave a sht about sustainability they wouldn't be commissioning these monstrosities to begin with.
Also, the electric ferries you speak of are traveling between designated ports typically less than 2hrs away. They likely plug in to shore (nuclear, nat gas, coal) power as soon as possible. Being a people mover, little to no traffic at night for a full charge.
there have been quite a few of these solar only yachts that produce enough reserve power to cruise overnight without fully depleting the power bank, but it's only possible with super efficient custom hulls.
And they weren't ALL warships either. There was the NS Savannah launched in 1959 as a demonstrator (cruise ship) for the peaceful uses of nuclear power.
great information, but keep in mind the maintenance of a yacht diesel engine is only a portion of overall cost. There are many other systems that require maintenance, water maker, HVAC, hydraulics, sea keepers, etc. that need to be maintained regardless of were the power is generated.
I've seen videos of these catching on in Britain as river ferries. Lower total cost of ownership, less time in maintenance and silent operation are all the selling points from a business POV. People enjoy riding the electric ferries more, it distracts less from the journey along the river.
I think what makes a lot of sense is a combination of self sailing and solar powered electric motors. I think the design of these vessels is still very much in its infancy and I can see much more feasible designs popping up as it matures and economies of scale come into effect. For example if we develop durable flexible cells we could put them on sails. Ships also don't have to keep all their sails within the footprint of their hull, You could massively increase the solar generation with foldout panels that extend far outside the hull in ideal conditions. Solar power would only be needed where speed is crucial, which is not often, or idling into port which is a low power scenario. Automated rigging systems could allow a boat to become self sailing and integrate GPS, currents, tides and weather data into route planning and make sailing more accessible to more people.
While electric motors are far lighter than diesel engines, the batteries for the electric motors + electric motors are far heavier than the diesel engine + fuel tanks, unless you limit the boat to a very small range of distance and therefore you could use a relatively small battery.
@@killuazoldyck1352 Didn't the video say that the energy density of diesel is about 100x that of a lithium battery? That means you need 100kg of battery for every kg of fuel, to store the same amount of energy. Of course using the battery energy is more efficient, so the advantage of fuel is reduced significantly.
As mentioned elsewhere here, I think you are missing the point here. Electric ferries powered from renewable sources including solar are completely viable. Converting existing yachts and other sailing craft by replacing dirty diesels with electric motors makes complete sense. These are powered by a combination of solar and regen by using the prop as a generator when sailing.
I'm very glad to see you are now only using metric units in your videos. It sends the right message, and more youtubers and journalists should follow suit. It's so clumsy and confusing to say everything in two types of units, so by settling on Metric, it's the standard and it just makes sense.
The only things that would need to be done to that ferry to make it a livable boat is, remove the seats, add some coroplast over the openings, add furniture. My guess is it already has restroom facilities. Putting a shower or bath in is pretty simple. Too many options for cooking to mention. I'd call it a home with unlimited range at 4.6 miles per hour.
Solar power is an interesting design choice to explore with boats but generally not a good option. This video covers the niche cases where it can be 'workable' however generally the trade-offs involved with a purely solar powered boat are not acceptable to prospective owners (even after supplementing that with additional battery storage to extend the full charge range). As to the future, even if you double the typical watts per square meter of solar panels up from ~200 to the theoretical maximum of ~430, the trade-offs are still not going to be good enough to be considered for most marine applications. You might see a bit of solar here and there on yachts and ferries but it'll mostly be to power the auxiliary systems onboard not propulsion. The comparisons between diesel and solar in the video are too simplified and flawed (particularly in the case of the 80ft comparison). In theory the solar ship might have unlimited range but in practise after you consider safe areas for the vessels to operate the maximum range could be very limited in typical weather conditions and forecasts. Ultimately the amount of food storage space and potentially water storage/usage would result in the solar powered having a negligible advantage in range/voyage length in most scenarios or as mentioned above worse range. This could be poor wording but it sounds like from the video that the entire maintenance cost has been compared with just the cost of replacing batteries? In a third world country where life is cheap, the cost of maintaining the hull and structure of vessels might make up a lower proportion of the cost of maintenance but in most first world countries it's at least on par if not more than the cost of servicing and replacement of diesel engines and there's also the other auxiliary and lifesaving equipment to consider as well. Due to this I'm fairly sceptical of the through life cost provided in the video.
Just wanna take a second here at 7:24 and do a little distance calculation. 100 nautical miles a day which could be anything from a round trip from Miami to Bimini, Bahamas (48 nautical miles one way) to a staggering 40 day trip from LA to Hawaii (4000 nm). If I'm not mistaken the travel time for a full battery is only about 8-12 hours so hope you like floating in the middle of the ocean if you have dreams of sailing to Hawaii.
One other thing to add.. It’s a pain in the ass for refueling… normally ya have to wait inline or even make an appointment… when ya fill up a 80 foot yacht you are looking to currently pay $6 - $7 a gallon for marine diesel.. 4500 gallon tank that’s $30k… Thats the very low end… Larger boats gas bills can get up to $250,000 and more for the super yachts… solar yachts feature spacious open design interiors with zero maintenance cost and down time… These boats aren’t flying off the selves because there is no shelf.. Want a solar boat get in line… The wait is in years…
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Battery powered ferry’s are being developed a lot in Europe these days. My wife is a marine engineer working at those kind of projects. Ferry’s can charge their battery’s during the night and give them just enough boost by quick charging during loading and unloading passengers and cars to get through the day.
Solar could help during the summer months but definitely not during winter.
For cargo ships the demand for power is way to large for battery’s. Even hydrogen or alcohol is very difficult because of the massive storage that is needed for those fuels.
no
I still like sails. Free solar energy that works at night. Solar plus batteries would be the backup to maintain steerage in times of no wind, but with satellite weather forecasts that should be a rare event.
There is also a 100 foot model, I don't know how long you've been working on this video, but it's been announced for a few weeks now
Hi Matt! I built a 8m solar powered catamaran in 2012, in 2022 I will take it out and change/update its design and electronics. Get in touch if interested about the project. I would say solar is great for recreation yachting- it has a few issues for commercial transportation.
Being a yacht captain and an electrical engineer, I find it "facinating", for lack of a better word, on how this "unlimited" ranges are advertised. Anyone that has piloted a boat knows that in anything but perfect weather completly flat water, the power necessary to keep a certain speed changes all the time...
yes, you can go 2-4kn with very little power, BUT, if you face any kind of head wind, you might be going much slower on even backwards, at that original power level. Same goes for current or waves...
(ask any amature on a Stand Up Paddle boarder how hard it is to go against even a small breeze).
Also, peak solar output does not last for more than 2 hours a day... IF (and big IF) there are NO clouds, you will get peak solar power for 1-2 hours around noon. Depending on where you are, you might get another 2 hours on each side (morning/afternoon) of 50-70% peak power and the rest will be bellow 50% peak (if not much less). So your "unlimited" is probably true only for 4-6 hours a day...
I'm all for electrification and renewables, don't get me wrong, but this ads are mostly misrepresentation of an over optmistic scenario.
Sails/wind wings seems much more plausible solution to me. The world will partly move away from the just in time production methods after this crisis and that might make sails more viable for certain goods transport.
Most likely the solution is green hydrogen produced with wind and solar and then burned in internal combustion engines aboard at least the large freight ships. Hydrogen ICEs are coming fast and they will blow fuel cells out of the water. When you need 20 MW of axle power you need a massive engine. Direct solar and wind are cute but lack the power density, reliability and coverage. If you need to maneuver in bad weather or a tight shipping lane, gimmicks don't cut it.
Sailboat diesel is called the auxiliary for a reason. It is not a green paddle for typical conditions.
Most boats already have solar for typical elec needs. The auxiliary is for when that isn't enough.
Shouldn't be that much of a problem for a pleasure boat though. I'd gladly adjust my trip to the weather conditions, if that means I can get rid of my noisy outboard and the smelly fuel tank.
I don't have a yacht but I am also an electrical engineer and I am so glad someone else can see this is complete BS. I have personally always thought the future would be something more like proton exchange membranes or something similar. I live in a 100% off-grid house with 300kwh of LiFePO4 batteries and 30kw of solar, and I still have days my software kicks in and shuts high draw items down. Solar is nice, but will never replace our current reliance on fossil fuels. At best it might slow it down a bit.
One of the other important things to note with solar / electrically powered boats, is less noise. It's a genuine problem that the shipping industry generate a lot of noise pollution which affects marine life.
I fish and electric motors are a lot less noise, only wind is quieter!
Solar powered boat? Stupidity on steroids.
@@seanleith5312 “What, Sir? Would you make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck? I pray you excuse me, I have no time to listen to such nonsense.” -Napoleon Bonaparte's answer to the inventor of the steam powered boat, 1803.
@@seanleith5312 Stupidity on steroids? Solar powered boats.
Big problem for whales and dolphins and their communications! They can't communicate when there's noise pollution!
Proud to see that you featured the Aditya boat from Kerala, India. Kerala is also home to world's first fully solar powered airport, Cochin International Airport.
There are plenty of people here saying it cannot work, and yet you have examples like Aditya where it's actually being done.
As the old saying goes, "those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those doing it."
@@tarstarkusz but how can that be so when people are already doing it and doing it successfully? Don't say "it cannot work" when it's already working.
@@tarstarkusz and who said that long range super ferries would be a target for solar power?
@@tarstarkusz it's working perfectly. Turanor is a large vessel and has already cirumnavigated on solar power.
how many cow can fit in aditya boat? im thingking about transporting cow from india to bangladesh in a greenway
Recreational boats and lake ferries are definitely the best application of solar power in vehicles. Low power, they soak in the Sun all the time, they don't have on-board high power devices that require power beside the engine and don't go fast. The low noise definitely aids the enjoyment and if you're dead in the water you can always row or simply sit around for a while and you'll get power back.
I'm highly skeptical for anything else. The cost is hardly worth what can only be an auxiliary power system.
One thing not mentioned is that many ships have been electric for a long time. Nuclear vessels in military are electric motor run and many large vessels also use their diesel engines to drive generators that run electric motors so electricity never really did go away.
Nuclear vessels in the military drive steam turbines, not electric motors.
True but there's an electric generator attached which gives the rest of the ship power, just not for pushing the ship itself.
There are already people running boats on 100% solar power in not so perfect northern conditions, so it is even better in more southern sunnier tropical conditions, it is definitely the future of boating.
Short answer: no.
Long answer: it could largely mitigate boat emission but not eliminate them. The energy requirement for commercial boats FAR surpass the surface area needed to supply the energy required via solar cells only.
No true. Look at Silent Yachts.
Electricity has a long way to go for any kind of shipping.
@@scootalong4254 if they didn't have to do 30 knots for $ reasons, they could do about 10 knots with solar power. We need to rethink our shipping. The largest 3 container ships create as much sulfur dioxide as the entire United States's vehicles.
@@scootalong4254 Many of them are hybrids that run electric motors.
My uncle has an electric mono haul sailboat where weight isn’t an issue. It’s great, so much better than a Diesel engine, no oil changes or noise and the whole transformation from a 15hp diesel to a similar 15kw electric conversion was only about $5000, cheaper than replacing the diesel
Batteries in the keel make complete sense.
You must not sail. The diesel is backup for energy and navigation emergencies. Removing the diesel on a real sailboat is ignorant. If this boat is used occasionally during nice weather it doesn't matter what auxiliary it has.
@@artsmith103 I sail. Diesel is only a backup or seen as required because electrcity solutions weren't ready yet this is no longer the case. Electricity solutions are now outperforming diesel counterparts in like for like use cases
@@ElliottParkinson There is no way to store the equivalent of 10 gal of diesel in jerry cans on the rail. There is no equivalent to being on the hook in less than sunny weather and taking the dinghy to shore to fill a couple jerry cans with diesel. The practical cruiser is about 40'. Barely enough room for 2-4 300W panels. 2 panels is typical minimum to power fridge, electronics, RO water and such for 2 people. 1-2 additional panels is not enough to power the boat in adverse situations which usually includes clouds and darkness.
For example, 300W panel for 3 peak equivalent hours per day is almost 1kWh. That is equal to ~1 cup of diesel! Typical fuel rate is 6 miles per gallon. So that is less than 1/2 mile per day per panel. That's plenty in and out of marina, useless in open water.
@@artsmith103 indeed, useless in open water. But if you sail, you can easily store enough to cruise out of a river to get to the sea and back. Then switch to sails, and even improve performance by motorsailing direct from the panels. Especially with a catamaran. When not motorsailing, you can regenerate batteries with hydrogenerators. With such a setup, diesel isnt required.
It works best with smaller boats. 23ft to 34ft catamarans. Im thinking prout rangers, heavenly twins or catalac 8-9m.
It doesnt work for all setups of course. But there are cases where it works.
Jamie Mantzel has been making his own for a while.
Ultimately, I'm picturing a hydrofoil with enough solar to keep it above minimum 'foil' speed, and just enough battery to boost it up and out of the water a few times.
When you mention that diesel has 100x the energy density of batteties you don't take into account that diesels engines are about 40% efficient when electric motors are close to 100%. Which really makes diesel engines have only around 40x more range per kg of energy storage. Yes, still a lot more, but more managable on a boat.
I know all this because i've built myself 2 electric dinghies & currently converting a 43ft catamaran to 100% solar electric with 30kw of solar power (with 4 $200 6kw diesel range extenders instead of standard generators).
Spend enough time at sea and you'll find yourself in a dire situation where sustained speed is needed: running from weather or getting caught n trying to maintain heading, assisting other's emergency, towing, etc.. batteries deplete at the worst times so a backup diesel is a must
All Silent Yachts have a backup diesel generator
It's always been not so clear to me whether electric boats could be a better option than electric cars. Boats have a few advantages to going solar such as:
A. There are a lot fewer rules about how slow they can/should go
B. They can take up a wider footprint without being too much of an issue
C. They never have to go uphill; aside from some big waves, boats are always on a level plane
D. Because they're in water, motors need a lot less torque to get moving, and stall current is what really sucks up a lot of power for electric motors
E. They can coast more easily. and if necessary, can be pushed by the wind.
However, the #1 issue with boats is water adds a tremendous amount of drag, so, you need a lot more energy to maintain speed.
So the way I see it, electric boats make a lot more sense for short bursts of travel (like with ferries) where they're not expected to go fast, they're not expected to fight strong winds, and they get enough moments throughout the day to recharge. They also make sense for fishing boats, where you need enough energy to get to your destination, stay there for a long while, and then have enough energy to return. When it comes to international travel though, they seem like a really bad idea.
Justin says:
" I live in a 100% off-grid house with 300kwh of LiFePO4 batteries and 30kw of solar, and I still have days my software kicks in and shuts high draw items down. Solar is nice, but will never replace our current reliance on fossil fuels. "
LOL. 300kwh is a week or more worth of electricity for a normal household, and it will last significantly longer if you are using reasonable conservation measures. 30kw of solar will easily get you 100kwh/day the vast majority of days, which means 1 below average but not terrible day will get almost 3 days worth of power. The idea that this battery and generation system wouldn't be enough for people is ludicrous, unless you're using it in high latitude and letting the snow block the panels for a week at a time. Even then, you can cut way back on the solar panels and install 1 moderate wind turbine for the same price to get complementary generatioin (one optimized for fair weather, one for stormy) to get the same average generation per day while insuring against one source being unavailable for a prolonged period.
For someone who claims to be an expert in this area, Justin sure has a lot of trouble with basic concepts.
I live in a town with ferry services to another country. Last year, all ships were converted to electricity.
When they travel short distance from port to port it isn't much risk. They are charging in port via typical grid supply: nuclear, coal, nat gas.
One thing about boats is that they are not limited to their footprint for solar panels. With panels that swing out from a position above the center, the area for a solar collection could easily be tripled, not to mention that they could even be used for wind assist. . .
Suezmax ships have engines around 10-20 MW and the entire deck covered with the most efficient solar panels will gather 2.4 MW during direct noon sunlight near the equator. Morning, evening, night, overcast, rain, etc. will severely reduce this generation. The solar panels would also complicate loading and unloading and increase the maintenance on the ship. The same problem with wind sails (kite-like sails or Magnus rotors or whatever) are similar. Having significant added complexity and a fidgety gizmo reducing the fuel consumption by 10-15% might very well not be worth it. They tested out Magnus rotors on a ferry between Finland and Sweden and it just wasn't worth it. The machinery costs millions, requires maintenance and only occasionally reduces the fuel consumption. Woop-tee-doo. It's not worth it. It would be much easier filling up tanks with high pressure green-produced hydrogen and running large internal combustion engines on the hydrogen, come rain, sleet or sunshine.
No mention of keeping the solar panels clean in a marine environment? I can't imagine salt deposits on the panels would be good for either performance or durability.
It's recommended to clean the panels around noon time so that you can see what you're doing.
I’d imagine you could just hose it down at dock like you would any yacht. Always should do that anyway just to remove salt spray from windows, etc.
almost every sailing yacht has solar panels on the coach house, they're easy to keep clean.
I live on a boat with panels, its clean and no deposits. I rarely clean my panels.
I've criss- crossed the Pacific a few times with solar panels on my sailboat. It's no problem.
If you add the fact that new perovskite solar panels could lower the *cell cost 10-100x in long run compared to what we have today,* it would make sense to crate *large custom barges* that would containt batteries and solar panels.
These could be towed with high power electric tankers/container ships with much *smaller batteries* on them.
This way you could have normal sized container ship that would be able to use currently *built docks,* but you could also have gigantic barges or barge arrays that wouldn't need to dock so often.
Water transport is already cheap, but this way it could be nearly free of charge compared to other transportation methods.
Also with large excess of energy produced by those barges, and low drag if designed properly, you could possibly start increasing average speed of container ships to levels similar to speeds of slow trains.
It would obviously need some necessary engineering and changes to overall container ship desing, but I suppose that's how the future will look in next couple decades.
Ship running costs is by far the biggest bug bear of ownership and operation … this is genuinely a game changer … and once competition hots up and prices drop these ships will make diesel alternatives obsolete in no time. I imagine electric yacht conversion will be a pretty lucrative business now.
Correct. I don’t think the majority of people realize just how big of an issue the running costs of a diesel boat are.
@@aussie2uGA Gale Force Twins just did a video on how much it costs to maintain their boat. Now, it's a 2005 Intrepid with the original twin 250hp Yamaha's on it but it does give an idea on how much operating a boat can cost.
I've always said that these 'New' electric cars that have come out (I used to work for a company that brought cars into the UK - Volkswagen/Audi/Skoda/Seat/Porsche/BMW/Toyota/Mini), we discharged them off the ferries, stored and distributed them to dealers). The electric cars like, ID3, ID4, Mi, E-Up!, Golf, Audi Etrons (and many others) MISSED a trick, that the roofs could have had solar panels to supplement charging of their batteries. No, I'm not saying to get a full charge, but think.. How many times is a car (electric or otherwise) sat outside for hours even days between driving? Parked on a drive outside a home, in a work's car park during a shift, parked somewhere during a weekend away, just sat there doing nothing. Even a car's roof has a sizable area to gain SOME charge and to a small extent, reclaim some charge while driving.... ESPECIALLY at the efficiency scales of solar panels today, some offset could be had....🤔 😎🇬🇧
For solar panel powered vehicles, cost is not the biggest hurdle, at least not the panel cost. Panel efficiency is. There is only so much available space for solar panels on a vehicle which means they will be woefully underpowered with current technology. Should one of the future solar panel techs pan out and double the efficiency then solar powered boats will become far more practical. The other thing that would help is the cost of batteries, and capacity to some degree, which will certainly see some significant gains in the future.
Honestly, being able to fit 34kW on a single 60ft vessel is more than adequate. Greater efficiency would be nice, but it's by no means necessary.
3 days in the ITCZ with little sunshine. We were a sailboat with 820 watts of solar and 300 watts of wind generator. Fortunately we had a diesel generator.
Very valid point though for the non technical audience it might be worth explaining that ITCZ is the 'intertropical convergence zone' or 'the doldrums' as it is commonly called.
@@BernardLS if the tea and wool clippers could sail around the world then why can’t we use modern technology to refine commercial sailing vessels.
Oh how I wish I had the money to convert my 46' ketch to electric, ditching my Perkins 4.236M diesel main engine. At today's prices, the lithium ion cells would cost me around $50,000 to get me sufficient range. I don't motor often, so I don't spend much in diesel, so it's a tough sell. :(
On the other hand, that large battery bank would supply my hotel loads for weeks - heating/air conditioning, cooking, electronics... one day.
For a similar reason I drive a fourteen year old Ford Focus rather than a Tesla. Elon has enough money already so he does not need my grand children's inheritance. The fuel to feed the Focus is E85, so I do care about the planet whatever the Green Meanies say. _GO BOOMERS!!_
5:12 This isn't true. What is the range of a sailboat?...... Its infinity isn't it? Even though sometimes the wind doesn't blow, we never talk about "range" with a sailboat. Same principle applies to solar boats. Given a 24 hour period, sure diesel boats can go farther. But to be correct... its diesel boats that have a limited range.... not solar boats.
That's an interesting topic for sure. Electric propulsion already makes perfect sense for quite wide marine applications. However there are to big challenges to overcome for people who already want it. Extremely limited choice of electric propulsion systems to choose from. Making a system from scratch few can do, especially for commercial use where lots of strict regulations exist. Laws... So many places still have quite outdated laws that won't easily let people use electric for any commercial use.
I'm in Japan, i'm building 30ft catamaran and i wanted to use electric, as from my calculation of use electric would be cheaper and much easier too (solar is just extra). Not to mention i hate smell of diesel or noisy petrol outboards. However i don't think i will be able to do so. Importing propulsion system from US and all regulations in place is a hurdle that is currently quite difficult to overcome. No real local solution. I can't build my own system from scratch either, not enough knowledge and i would not be able to pass safety regulations with self build system.
I seem to have lost my answer to you i will wait to see if it re emerges from the electronic labyrinth. But theres a lot of options out there on U-tube ... and a lot of the components are built in your part of the world. Just kitted up in the USA and Europe.
Good luck with the project! I hope you will be able to somehow finish it successfuly in the end.
Take a look at the two conversions here th-cam.com/video/lq6EqAVS4uE/w-d-xo.html
With aircraft more small motors and props tend to be more efficient than a larger single motor and prop.
Theres a few Wharrams and other cats already running hybrid systems.
Look up the Heart of Gold lifeboat conversion.
And Sea Japan ...
Lighter and better insulated boats tend to make the better E power conversions as do multihulls.
I have a sailboat with electric aux. Let me recommend you consider an electric motor in each hull and a single diesel Genset and shared big battery. When the battery tech improves in 10 years, just upgrade. The electric motors are good for the life of the boat.
@@GuyIncognito764
Thats how i would do it 👍🏼 brushless motors driving shafts and efficient props. As large a battery pack as i could afford to build and solar. Batteries perhapse salvaged from a crash damaged. Nissan leaf, prius Or Similar .
The electric motors are virtually maintainance free as long as they are kept dry or protected and dont overheat ..
Then a remotely mounted fuel efficient generator or a DIY APU slave motor powering ultra high output alternators...
Twin motors in a cat. or trimaran will make manouvring much easier and give you an element of redundancy.
Conventional sails are also expensive to maintain and operate so consider alternatives.
In Geneva, Switzerland, we already have two solar/electric ferries... although we still use a large amount of diesel small ferries. We also have a fast charging battery powered bus line.
The incredibly low cost of maintenance has a more interesting use, for establishing semi permanent boats in the ocean. A diesel engine always needs to return to shore for fuel and maintenance. A solar powered isle can just sit out there, maybe for years at a time. Low range may become a thing of the past if an electric boat can just dock at a deep sea solar depot, recharge/swap its batteries and continue sailing.
So your idea is to put more unneeded stuff in the ocean for the very few projects that will be able to utilize it.
If you are able to tilt up the solar panels on either side you will be able to get more direct sunlight to produce more electricity.
Tilting the panel can also provide a little wind power when the wind is blowing in the right direction adding speed and range.
Everything works great when the sun is out. When it isnt, you dont make enough power to do anything. I have over 15kw of solar on my homestead, and I am making less than 50 watts right now because of cloud cover.
Use it where it makes sense
I can't decide whether to buy a solar-powered yacht or a diesel-powered one and this video helped me decide. I won't buy either as I am broke.
Amazing how India adopts technologies so early
That’s what happens when you have 1,326,000,000 people
The big problem with solar powered boats arises when there is no direct sunlight to recharge and maintain the batteries. So, to mitigate that problem, we could transition into full electric boats by incorporating diesel generators that would only be used to recharge the batteries when needed - like a plug-in hybrid car. Yes, there would still be a diesel motor involved, but it could be much smaller and use much less fuel than if it were being used to actually propel the boat.
If you're vacationing on your yacht without a schedule, pure solar/electric is a viable option - just stay put until the sun comes out, again. But, if you're running a ferry service or hauling freight, you can't afford to shut down on cloudy days.
diesel generator adds alot of weight lowering the efficiency/viability for the whole thing
in the case of silent yachts and they do have cheaper options like silent 44 coming in at 700 000 pounds has 3 battery banks 1 for engine,one for inhouse electrics and one for back up.plus a relatively small generator for crossing oceans and then there is an option of putting a fully automatic kite system that you can sail alone with it at 4 knots or use it in tandom with the onboard system and you will use half the electricity to go 8 knots infinately day and night and this kite system charges the battery as well.with all these redundancy systems one can go anywhere anytime and sail 365 days a year without stopping.there is an older silent 64 vlog about a turkish captain that crossed the atlantic in the dead of winter from cartegena spain to florida.thats 5500 nm and used if you calculate it in dollars in generator fuel with american fuel prices was 600 dolars.and if you want to go fast i mean at 20 knots then the generator will directly supply the engines with electric until you run out of generator fuel and that will probably take you 1500 nm at constant 20 knots.. i hope it helps.;)
@@Matzes That really depends on the size of the generator and the amount of fuel you're carrying. If you're only using the generator to recharge the batteries, the generator could be ten percent the size of a diesel engine intended to propel the boat directly. Likewise, your fuel consumption would be ten percent, as well. And, if you're carrying freight or passengers anyway, the extra weight of the generator and fuel is going to be nominal.
Honestly, your very first point should have been:
"Why use solar panels for boats over SAILS?"
Because that's the real question here. Sailing is 100% carbon neutral, costs a fraction and works at night (as a tradeoff to not work without wind).
because you can't go into marina's under sail, also the wind does not always blow.
Sail and solar is a good way to go which is what i am doing, electric propulsion for going in and out of ports/marinas and sail the rest of the time.
Boats also need electric for everyday things, solar is much better than running a generator.
Because you need electricity anyway
@@killuazoldyck1352 if you are skilled you can dock using sail, I've seen people do It with small boats
Many years ago my wife and I tried a holiday on the Norfolk Broads (UK). We hired a small diesel boat with a bedroom etc. The worst part of it was the loud noise from the engine combined with the ever-present smell of diesel fumes. The dream of gliding around peacefully on the water turned out to be no more than a dream. An ELECTRIC boat would have made it a real holiday and very pleasant, despite the rather grey weather and boring scenery. Once again, the cleaner, more efficient alternative also turns out to be more enjoyable.
I definitely have thought that out of most applications, things like smaller vessels could benefit from this very quickly, especially since house boats and personal boats are generally docked for a long time in between trips. Things like ferries could also benefit as long as they are charged for the time they are docked between trips and their trips aren’t very long.
The range is obviously an issue here for some.
Where we go wrong is long haul cargo
Perhaps long haul cardo shipments could be reduced. I don't see a need for consumer goods to be shipped across oceans if nations ensured that most consumer products were produced more locally.
I have a question. Where do you go when the onboard lithium batteries catch fire while at sea?
Time to consider 'ABANDON SHIP' the 'local' fire department will probably say 'not much we can do for you' like all fires it will eventually burn out then it is between you and the insurance company.
@@BernardLS Abandoned ship, yes. But where can you go while hundreds of miles from any land?
@@Just_Johnnie As far as your skill set will take you, the most epic such adventure was Ernest Shackleton, Wikipedia is s good source.
A solar powered yacht seems like a great place to ride out a zombie apocalypse.
Yea and no. One thing I worry about is the lack of speed. These electric and solar boats are generally slow cruisers, not able to quickly get up and out of a potentially dangerous situation or encounter. I’d check the option box for “Tesla Plaid boost motors with super capacitors” the moment it’s offered.
@@aussie2uGA the top spec SY60 does 20 knots with 2x 340kW motors
@@MrMagnuson the other hand it only has the battery capacity to maintain full power to those motors for less than half an hour and it takes close to 2 days to fully recharge. 17kw is around 20hp. Your probably not going to move a ship that big very fast at that solar input although it would be perfect for island hopping and hanging out for a few days to recharge.
One of your best episodes. The savings for the ferries highlighted in India is pretty breathtaking.
Container ships will always have to get unloaded by cranes above the ship though, unless containers will move themselves or the ship unloads itself. So for container ships to be powered by solar it's gonna be a long way I'd imagine. Maybe indirectly by the port that is powered by green energy.
Or maybe the roof can fold up and get out of the way?
They need to be picking up stuff from the ship anyway. So a big company could invest into standardized modules, which can be grabbed and moved by container-cranes. maybe they will fold out or something over the next few containers into each direction. just stack em somewhere until the boat is full, then pop em on top. a person can connect them to the ship's power while the boat is going off on full batteries. stinky diesel generators can add extra power in case there is not enough sunshine. I think it's just an engineering (and will) question.
@@ChrisBigBad it's really hard to move from one standard to the other, because where do you start? That's why Windows XP is still being used for some military applications.
The port has to change with the new system as well, and the port will only do that if a profitable amount of ships is using that system.
And ships will only use that system if every port they go to can work with it.
The company managing this must be owning ports across the world and maybe own its own fleet.
@@The_Andy_H Yes, I understand and agree. Which is why I imagined the solar-cells to fold closed into a normal shipping-container. those can be perfectly handled by the ports as it is. you just need to take them off the top of the ship (if you need to get at the stuff below), store them somewhere with the other containers and put them back on the top at the end and unfold them again. zero change for the port - totally transparent. no?
I was gonna comment 'fingers crossed for scaling up to include container ships' until I saw the 100x energy density difference. I think that might be the bigger issue to start with ?
@@The_Andy_H, It's not just the military. There is a good number of legacy equipment that the original manufacturers no longer support and rely on XP and a few still use Win'98. Until a part fails that I cannot source a replacement for, I'm not upgrading to the latest and greatest.
In many of these solar solutions you need a diesel generator for back up ! The solar panels on my yacht will power the radios , auto pilot , etc and top up the house batteries for evening use IF there is a good amount of sun during the day . They will not propel the boat or start the motor or operate the anchor winch except for a very short time in little wind . Recently a yacht north of us had taken out their diesel and installed an electric motor plus extra batteries . It was dismasted about 300k miles offshore . The batteries soon depleted and they ended up getting towed in . A simple diesel with a few spare cans of fuel would have done the job
Catamarans have a great synergy for renewable propulsion. They are:
A large surface area for solar power
The same large area for living or passenger space
Efficient Multihull configuration requires less power
Leverages the advantages of electric propulsion with
Minimal maintenance
Freedom to be untethered to fuel stations
Zero fuel costs
I would just like to remind everyone that wind is concentrated solar energy from miles and miles of "collection pads" (surface aria of the earth)
Put the solar panels up the mast and you will increase your eficiency.
Increase eficiency even more by replacing the solar panels with a lightweight fabric...
Except that wind is generated by delta of solar energy in those collection pads. If adjacent pads receive the same amount of energy there will be no wind.
@@TheKribu well I guess it's a good thing the sun only hits one half of the earth at a time lol
@@TheKribu "hah! I disproved wind!" Lol
when compare the weight , it is something misleading, electric motor is lighter than diesel engine, but the battery is a lot of weight and far more heavier than fuel.
An equivalent catamaran to the Silent 80 is more like the Sunreef 80 Power, which is in the €4 million range and upwards.
The monohulls really aren't comparable when you take into account total living area and speed capabilities.
A monohull is faster than a catamaran if they are both heavily loaded. That's why monohulls will always be the standard for transportation. As batteries have very low power density, a fully electric monohull is much better than a catamaran in that regard. But you indeed do not have the same form of living space
@@TheTokkie And the monohull wont pitch poll and kill the entire crew.
@@TheTokkie if you put the same weight on a cat and a mono, the cat would be less impaired. Cats are just better in every way, anyone that sails knows that!
@@killuazoldyck1352 that's simply incorrect. At light weight, a catamaran is faster but at heavy weight the tacamaran has much more drag than the monohull. I'm a naval engineer btw.
Diesel fuel has 100X the energy that an equivalent weight battery has. Diesel (and to a lesser extent gas) is the star performer than has made much of modern shipping possible. The typical "Solar" boat or yacht just entering the market today must contain diesel fuel to power its generator to provide power when the solar is not enough. Hence these modern solar yacht (sometimes called 100% solar) are not viable without diesel as a second source of power. It would be much more dangerous to try to operating a solar power boat offshore without diesel power as a backup.
This reminds me of your old video on structural batteries, they could be used here for weight reduction
I think we have to come up with new battery technology... Structural batteries Is Indeed a more efficent way to distribute weight, but immagine having to replace a structural part, because you had a single faulty cell... We need better batteries
In boats weight isn't such an issue... Solar boats with LiFePo4- batteries are already today a viable alternative to diesel for local passenger and freigh transportation.
@@cerealtech4138 oh yes I didn't think about that, but I guess people must've figured out Lego like structures by then?
@@davidsimoneta8513 does it not matter that much? I thought replacing engines and fuel combo on the small and medium sized boats must have been better but now I remember Zack's electric hummer (JerryRigEverything) the weight difference wasn't that significant
@@MayankJairaj
The influence of drag and gravity on the vehicle behaviour are very different in water and on a street...😉
Yes I do think local relatively short rout ferry service will catch on now and hopefully longer routes as tech improves.
Solar power for shipping has a scale problem, the area of the solar panels required to harvest the energy means that the carrying capacity of the vessel (load displacement) is low. In suitable situations such as this it will work but the opportunity for expansion is limited. With regard to propulsion with electric motors powered by ‘green electricity’, leaving aside the fact that there is no truly ‘green’ electricity, the best we can do is low carbon impact both at installation (capital account cost) and production (revenue account cost). Running ships on the ‘lecky’ is tricky; the two examples that I personally know of, and have used, are a vehicle and foot traffic ‘chain’ ferry that ply’s its trade across the hundred meters or so of the Nordre älv between the island of Hisingen and Kornhall on the Swedish mainland. The motors are on the ferry and a power supply cable is unwound and wound back up on board as the ferry shuttles back and forth from Kornhall. When the vessel goes anywhere else, id est dry dock for survey and or maintenance, it is towed by a good old ICE powered tug. The other electric vessel is a vehicle and foot traffic ferry that runs from Helsingborg (Sweden) to Helsingor (Denmark), a twenty minute trip undertaken using energy stored in batteries on board, she tops up the charge each time she is alongside and battery capacity is said to be sufficient for an hour of main engine use.
For small scale, low weight, time sensitive, high value cargo (people) direct harvest solar energy could be a site specific solution being most effective in the tropics on daylight hours, good weather, short voyages in protected waters, such as the ‘Aditya’. The advantages are that it is quiet and clean in operation with low fuel and maintenance costs for the drive train; the hull and fittings will however still require some routine maintenance. Electric ships which currently have short ranges and high light displacement in proportion to their cargo capacity if battery storage is added. Sadly as of now, except for niche usage, electrically powered ships are as functional as chocolate fireguards.
Interesting video!
One small correction.. you rated the batteries in kW (power) instead of kWh (energy capacity).
and the fact that he compared a solar cat to a monohull in terms of pricing, and assumed that pricing was comparable across manufacturers in similar sized boats. Neither of those are reasonable to do.
I worked for a company and help build 3 tier 50m yachts and the down payment for buyers was $8 million, and $40+ million when completely built and delivered.
I've been following Azure and Silent for well over a year as I love the idea of these boats. They are so much better for the environment and at the time, living in Hampton Va I would see boats out on the water every day and none of them were using this gear tech, though there are a lot of sail boats. Great video as always!
Do you know anything about sailboat's? They are a wonderful thing and in some ways better than a solar boat.
However, the sailing community is split on replacing the combustion engine with electric motors. There's many who have already made the change and are very happy with it.
So I asked you these questions to show you how strong some people are against change. In fact it will surprise you to know just how evil the thoughts of some are as to why their against change. Just know the bottom line is about money.
Blessings and keep on enjoying the water in your own way. I love VA...
P.S. just trying to spark a conversation on the topic of the video even if it's a different aspect of the topic. Will you participate?
@@jamesfrankland4436 interesting this topic
@@robinabraham2843 yes it is indeed.
So tell me, what would you like to add to the subject? Are you just getting into the topic or do you have knowledge of it that you would talk about?
I know some stuff but this topic I've found is wide and deep and it's not a one size fits all kinda topic. This I think is the biggest reason it's such an interesting topic.
Your welcome to engage me on this topic and see where it takes us and how much we can learn from one another.
Blessings to you...
@@jamesfrankland4436 joining .
@@robinabraham2843 joining what Robin?
Ferries are a good place to start for solar/battery power. They travel more in protected waters, so they don't need the added "oomph" of diesel in adverse weather. Their runs are shorter and they have the option of recharging when docked. I note that Japan has a number of ferries, large ones that move cargo and with sleeping accommodations for passengers. At least for runs mostly in daylight, solar/battery power might work for them.
A self sailing catamaran powered by the sun, effectively a seafront home with ever changing views that just goes and goes and goes without a single drop of effort on my part.. would be the perfect dream home. It's just too bad that I'm not a sea person.
everchanging views as in: todays water is 0.00001% more blue than yesterday water?
@@yuidesu5625 Sure. Also coastlines. I don't think I would sail the open sea much.
You do realise that sails are solar powered?
@@Ron-dx9wq Yes and they're also powered by hydrogen, fission or even the big bang depending on how many steps you want to take. Why do you want to take extra steps?
@98Zai Extra steps?! A rag on a stick compared to solar panels, batteries, motors and electrical cables carrying welding current - none of which will be happy with even a drop of saltwater. People forget that the entire world was discovered and settled before electricity even existed.
I've seen one couple on another TH-cam channel with an electric sail boat. They recently installed an electric motor that can regenerate electric power for them when they are sailing using the wind power. They also have a solar array and batteries. I think that converting boats over from ICE to electric will be more of an incremental transfer. Most boats sail for years and unless there is a real need to convert your already working system then a lot of ICE powered boats will stick around.
Living on a lake, I’d LOVE a solar/electric affordable boat!
Build one
A solar house boat would be a lot cheaper than a solar luxury yacht. I believe there are some models available.
build a solar pontoon boat. very easy to do yourself. there are some manufacturers that offer them new.
I had a work colleague who was ex navy and is now a chief engineer on an exclusive yacht, apparently running the yacht is what will financially ruin someone as apposed to the initial cost of buying one..
Awesome! I hope it becomes the norm, given how polluting boat fuel is.
boats run on diesel or petrol just like land vehicles, only massive ships run on oil. Modern ships clean there emissions before releasing them, so they are cleaner than most land vehicles. Older ship can be bad, but they are being quickly phased out due to running costs.
A note on mass vs range- Sufficient solar can be applied to move the boat without touching the batteries. Dense enough solar collection would allow it to move in sunlight while recharging the batteries. A current yacht company allows for 18 hours of 5 knot cruising speed per 24 hour period. They supplemented this with a kite sail to allow a cruise speed of 8 knots while recharging. Not perfect yet, but getting close. Alternatively, a solar sailboat gets the best of all worlds. High cruise speed under sail with all onboard electrics being solar, with an electric drive motor for moving under power.
There was a time when large boats were actually powered by wind - even if it blew in the wrong direction. But you've already done a video on that.
A computer driven sail would be a catalyst for "free energy".
And they were too slow to match modern day needs in industry applications. For pleasure crafts - can still be used most certainly but then the owners would need to learn how to sail.
The idea of electric ferries is particularly compelling because the ferries could do a recharge on each side as their trips tend to be short and known in advance. Saving fuel and maintenance which are the main costs of ferry operations could be very compelling.
there already is one that does that, in Norway i think.
@@killuazoldyck1352 This video references a builder who is already making such ferries.
Insolation rate in Joules will vary due to time of day, latitude of vessel, declination of sun, (those three impact the elevation of the power source) cloud cover, the efficiency of the solar panels and how clean they are. Solar panels create about 155 Watts m2 averaged out; those Watts might allow you to distil enough fresh water from the sea to wash the crud off of the solar panels (surprise fact harvesting renewable energy does come with some maintenance costs) but nowhere near enough to effectively 'push the boat along'. For small scale, low weight, time sensitive, high value cargo (people) direct harvest solar energy could be a site specific solution being most effective in the tropics on daylight hours, good weather, short voyages in protected waters, such as the ‘Aditya’ ferry in India. The advantages are that it is quiet and clean in operation with low fuel and maintenance costs for the drive train; the hull and fittings will still require routine maintenance.
agreed. And looking at those yachts there was no way they had 17kw and 26kw of solar on their roofs
Those Silent brand electric boats are pretty amazing. If I were rich enough to buy a boat that size I would seriously think of buying an electric one. It's almost a no brainer when you consider the noise, pollution, maintenance and just the cost of fuel. Filling up a boat isn't cheap at all - a 300Nm trip might be $600 of fuel so it adds up fast. Electric boats can practically go forever, certainly enough for how far people normally travel. But like with cars there is a range anxiety to electric and also the more practical matter of cruising speed. So I think there is room for improvement but it's still a very attractive proposition.
For a long time I have been thinking about if it wouldn't be possible to use solar on container ships. When the crane is done loading all the containers on the ships it could load solar-modules on top of all the containers. Maybe solar can't fully power a ship, but if it can reduce the fossil fuel consumption by 50% I can imagine it would be worth it.
That would be too expensive and too time consuming - we are already in a massive supply shortage and that would just add to it.
solar sourcing energy is fine. the real problem is the storage. most solar / electric based boat cannot sustain faster propulsion as the battery does not store enough energy to do so.
Thank you for making this video since the information you provided is truly fascinating and informative.
But here's an idea that I noticed in one of your videos which involved wind powered cargo ships apparently didn't think about trying to combine both this solar power technology with their wind powered technology to power the cargo ship.
Because I have noticed over time we as human beings have made one critical mistake and that is is that we're trying to find one piece of technology to do it all. When it would be better to take different technologies combined them together to formulate a more affective clean efficient way of not only generating power but increasing comfort across the planet.
Because when you think about it they were experiments done with hydroponic gardens and nothing more was done with them. It said that the technology of hydroponic gardens hasn't been applied into cities across the planet because if they were we could probably solve the world food shortage problem as well as generate incredible amounts of good jobs and possibly make living far more comfortable than what it is today for the average person including poor people.
We need to start thinking about taking all these different technologies and pulling them together to build a better life for everyone and I for see that it would eliminate poverty once and for all if people will wake up and think about it.
indeed precisely, This fallacy of progressivism where the the newest has to be 'better' than the old one is not helping humanity at all. and i don't think it's by accident... An Ipad is not a superior technology to a pen & paper or vice versa. it's all about the context in which they'll be used.
The silent yachts are actually offered with an option to include a sky sail - a kite sail that can be deployed to harness the wind for added speed, in exchange for the additional cost of the sail + a little storage space.
too much money $$$ would be lost by food companies drug companies i love to be all about this but they will never adopt these ideas MAINSTREAM.
Cargo ships need to have overhead access for loading/unloading containers, so what would you do with the solar panels?, now a car carrier ship which has a closed deck on top, maybe, but a container type cargo ship, nope.
@@danmckeever599 That. There's a significant tradeoff between deck space used and propulsion. You could well end up with a ship that can move *itself* through the water but not carry a viable amount of cargo at the same time.
everyone says they are going down in price and have been for 10 years. I havnt seen a drop in the last decade. Even of so, batteries are going up.
I'm surprised to see India did this. Even I didn't know inspite of being from here. We usually are all talk and no action, but hats off to the company that made that boat.
All talk and no action? It's the only developing country thats able to compete with developed countries in the space race. India also has the largest solar array. You need to learn more about your country. The world has been in awe for a while about how fast India is with technology.
a drawback could be the salt water spray sticking to the panels and drying. which would leave a layer of salt and lower the energy production
The boats has desalination machines and a hose so you can easily clean them on occasion or even in port
I have a crazy idea of using wind power at sea instead of solar...
🤪😆🤣
Electric propulsion is a good option for bigger displacement style boats where weight is not an issue. As soon as you want to go fast in a small personal craft the range would be very limited to sometimes one quarter compared to petrol powered boats. The cost of batteries and electric motor would also be way higher. And to have a somewhat decent range, the boat would become too heavy. But for bigger boats where range and speed are not an issue, electric propulsion is the way to go.
There is a lot more that could be said about this topic, Matt. Consider that a 200hp car usually is run at 10-20hp 99% of the time, but a 200hp displacement boat is run at 100hp, semi-displacement at 150hp, and planing at 180hp. Comparing a ferry that probably cruises at 8knots with another one that cruises at 4knots also isn't fair, and just looking at engine maintenance as a percentage is misleading because engine maintenance is just a small part of boat maintenance... really the savings is small, and since all solar boats move at displacement speeds, weight savings is irrelevant. Also I question the cost of an 8knot ferry engine maintenance... such a small ferry would need a very modest diesel engine, and for the costs you mention you can replace that engine with a new engine annual! I would think your estimate is 1000% too high. I do however love the idea and for certain uses it can really make sense. Another topic you might be interested in is sail boats which replace their standby diesel with an electric motor/generator that can generate electricity to power a/c, lights, electronics, and so on... and even recharge the battery bank. That seems the most promising, as all sailboats are displacement boats already. Lastly I would question your comment on the "equitable"-ness of ferry transportation versus private boating. While it is more efficient, I don't think humanity is in such dire straits as to say there is any justification of elimination private transportation (land, sea, or air)... and most transportation systems require tremendous population density for the savings to appear. A subway system in a small Montana town would be completely useless and wouldn't save any energy, and the cost would be more than buying every resident a new Tesla. My $0.02. :)
Brilliant Episode! This kind of technology will make it viable for more people to live on oceans; potentially even having floating ocean cities. Huge potential here!
A great episode 👍 Yes, I believe electric ferries will catch on sooner than we think. In Denmark we already have a couple of interesting projects and Norway is going full in on electric and hybrid ships.
Would be great if Matt could do a video on the the projects in Denmark and Norway.
their speeed is only 4 knots. so useless
@sp0777iXdlMLalN0dsXxlMlNdsM0jdsj Actually it works exactly the opposite way. The amount of power you need to move a ship through the water depends (mostly) on the length of the waterline in relation to the size of the ship. The longer it is, the less power you need to go at the same speed. So if you want to double the size of a ship, you basically make it twice as long and you need way less than twice the power. That’s the reason why ships are getting bigger and bigger. It just makes them more efficient. And of course the space for solar panels still doubles if you make the ship twice as long, why it works even better the bigger you make the ships.
@@esecallum There's plenty of electric ferries that are far faster, and in places like New York, there's a lot of relatively short ferry trips they could charge during
Great idea and practical, but do not forget the lithium battery footprint.
I would love to have a Silent 55 that uses a backup diesel generator.
It already has it.
@@marlmyster yes, I'm aware. The 55 is the one I want though. But, unless I hit the mega millions lottery, it will never happen.....
@@mikecheslock3542
I have faith in you... You'll get it late 2022-2023!
The most efficient hybrid boat would be a solar/fuel cell combo. It could use some solar to regenerate the hydrogen stores for later use.
Excellent Analysis, Deployed Worldwide Through My Deep Learning AI Research Library …Thank You Matt
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What analysis?
@@davidbrayshaw3529
Call Or Text Anytime Robert Foertsch
Silent Yachts are adding a model which includes a kite, which further reduces the need for the diesel generator. So that's a good compromise or enhancement, for not a huge cost increase. There are so many good possibilities that only lack for development effort ($$$). Hopefully we will make these developments in time to keep our planet livable!
I always look forward to more information about solar tech, on land or sea.
I’m looking at installing solar in the next few years, but I don’t think my home is ideal for it. My HOA only allows them on the sides and rear, which I don’t think will work well. The main reason I’m waiting is because I’m not sure if we’re going to stay here. With remote working now permanent, and Starlink internet available globally soon, my family has a lot of options. May move somewhere that I can take advantage of solar, geothermal, drill a well, and have Starlink and live off the grid. Maybe buy a large tract of land in the middle of nowhere (aka no utilities or roads) that wouldn’t be developed otherwise, but still not too far from a larger city and schools and put in a gravel road.
What's always irritating is the number of people who dismiss Matt's detailed research and demonstration of technologies with back-of-the-envelope bs reasoning and "maths" that tends to ignore the examples that have actually demonstrated working technology over long periods of time (months or years). Now, solar-powered boats clearly will not be a solution for all boats (certainly not as solar panels and batteries are now), but they still have a sizeable market they can be applied to.
Could be the future of transportation until it gets too cloudy. My array is 17% below estimate for the last month due to clouds. Thank goodness for grid tie. Solar is a great 10-20% potential to energy pie as long as there is backup.
The question to ask is why they don’t put solar panels on electric cars..? The answer you still gots to pay someone for the energy
Using LCOE to compare the cost of photovoltaics to coal is comparing apples to oranges. A better metric would be Value Adjusted LCOE, which takes into account that electricity generated when it is needed is more valuable than electricity generated just when the sun is shining. Pair the cost of storage for a sunny day with panels, and the LCOE for solar will go up by maybe four-fold. Add in the capital cost of back-up natural gas sitting idle to cover three days of rain or heavy clouds and probably the real LCOE of solar is at least 6 times as much as those quoted LCOE's.
Pure Solar electric boats make sense for short trips and niche markets, however they are not practical for long trips. Cloud cover, Nighttime, and early/late in the day, the panels aren't making enough power. They make more sense when used in combination with a diesel backup, or on sailboats.
The Silent Yacht has crossed the Atlantic. The SY60 has 1900 liters of diesel tanks so you can keep cruising even at night or when cloudy while on sunny days you cruise for free.
The "unlimited range" argument is moot. The solar arrays on these vessels barely produce enough power to move the vessel at cruising speeds, leaving nothing left over to charge the batteries. The vessel would be completely disabled at night or on a cloudy day. Okay, add a generator, problem solved. But if a vessel is built with all this solar and battery capacity and adds even the smallest generator, you've completely negated any of the "no-running cost" or "no maintenance" advantages. Instead, the vessel would have been far less expensive and more useful if it just had a diesel engine to begin with. For ferries moving high volumes of people at extremely slow speeds during the daytime only, solar and electric propulsion may work but this is an extremely small slice of the marine market and is likely its only real application. The electric superyachts are just a flex for the ultra-rich. If they actually gave a sht about sustainability they wouldn't be commissioning these monstrosities to begin with.
Also, the electric ferries you speak of are traveling between designated ports typically less than 2hrs away. They likely plug in to shore (nuclear, nat gas, coal) power as soon as possible. Being a people mover, little to no traffic at night for a full charge.
there have been quite a few of these solar only yachts that produce enough reserve power to cruise overnight without fully depleting the power bank, but it's only possible with super efficient custom hulls.
What about nuclear powered ships? It's not like it's never been done
And they weren't ALL warships either. There was the NS Savannah launched in 1959 as a demonstrator (cruise ship) for the peaceful uses of nuclear power.
great information, but keep in mind the maintenance of a yacht diesel engine is only a portion of overall cost. There are many other systems that require maintenance, water maker, HVAC, hydraulics, sea keepers, etc. that need to be maintained regardless of were the power is generated.
Just love your sincere explanation on the topics and the pace of speech delivery is excellent.
I've seen videos of these catching on in Britain as river ferries. Lower total cost of ownership, less time in maintenance and silent operation are all the selling points from a business POV. People enjoy riding the electric ferries more, it distracts less from the journey along the river.
'Sailing Uma' is an electric yacht. It can recharge its batteries when sailing. The prop turns motor to make a generator!
I think what makes a lot of sense is a combination of self sailing and solar powered electric motors. I think the design of these vessels is still very much in its infancy and I can see much more feasible designs popping up as it matures and economies of scale come into effect. For example if we develop durable flexible cells we could put them on sails. Ships also don't have to keep all their sails within the footprint of their hull, You could massively increase the solar generation with foldout panels that extend far outside the hull in ideal conditions. Solar power would only be needed where speed is crucial, which is not often, or idling into port which is a low power scenario. Automated rigging systems could allow a boat to become self sailing and integrate GPS, currents, tides and weather data into route planning and make sailing more accessible to more people.
While electric motors are far lighter than diesel engines, the batteries for the electric motors + electric motors are far heavier than the diesel engine + fuel tanks, unless you limit the boat to a very small range of distance and therefore you could use a relatively small battery.
if the tanks were empty i would agree, but when full that's not true, big yachts carry 1000's of litres of fuel.
@@killuazoldyck1352 Didn't the video say that the energy density of diesel is about 100x that of a lithium battery? That means you need 100kg of battery for every kg of fuel, to store the same amount of energy. Of course using the battery energy is more efficient, so the advantage of fuel is reduced significantly.
As mentioned elsewhere here, I think you are missing the point here. Electric ferries powered from renewable sources including solar are completely viable. Converting existing yachts and other sailing craft by replacing dirty diesels with electric motors makes complete sense. These are powered by a combination of solar and regen by using the prop as a generator when sailing.
I'm very glad to see you are now only using metric units in your videos. It sends the right message, and more youtubers and journalists should follow suit. It's so clumsy and confusing to say everything in two types of units, so by settling on Metric, it's the standard and it just makes sense.
The only things that would need to be done to that ferry to make it a livable boat is, remove the seats, add some coroplast over the openings, add furniture. My guess is it already has restroom facilities. Putting a shower or bath in is pretty simple. Too many options for cooking to mention. I'd call it a home with unlimited range at 4.6 miles per hour.
Solar power is an interesting design choice to explore with boats but generally not a good option. This video covers the niche cases where it can be 'workable' however generally the trade-offs involved with a purely solar powered boat are not acceptable to prospective owners (even after supplementing that with additional battery storage to extend the full charge range). As to the future, even if you double the typical watts per square meter of solar panels up from ~200 to the theoretical maximum of ~430, the trade-offs are still not going to be good enough to be considered for most marine applications. You might see a bit of solar here and there on yachts and ferries but it'll mostly be to power the auxiliary systems onboard not propulsion.
The comparisons between diesel and solar in the video are too simplified and flawed (particularly in the case of the 80ft comparison). In theory the solar ship might have unlimited range but in practise after you consider safe areas for the vessels to operate the maximum range could be very limited in typical weather conditions and forecasts. Ultimately the amount of food storage space and potentially water storage/usage would result in the solar powered having a negligible advantage in range/voyage length in most scenarios or as mentioned above worse range.
This could be poor wording but it sounds like from the video that the entire maintenance cost has been compared with just the cost of replacing batteries? In a third world country where life is cheap, the cost of maintaining the hull and structure of vessels might make up a lower proportion of the cost of maintenance but in most first world countries it's at least on par if not more than the cost of servicing and replacement of diesel engines and there's also the other auxiliary and lifesaving equipment to consider as well. Due to this I'm fairly sceptical of the through life cost provided in the video.
Just wanna take a second here at 7:24 and do a little distance calculation. 100 nautical miles a day which could be anything from a round trip from Miami to Bimini, Bahamas (48 nautical miles one way) to a staggering 40 day trip from LA to Hawaii (4000 nm). If I'm not mistaken the travel time for a full battery is only about 8-12 hours so hope you like floating in the middle of the ocean if you have dreams of sailing to Hawaii.
surprised those luxury yachts (every time he said that I think monty python) dont come with some kind of automatic sail to extend the range too.
They do exist. There are parachute kite sails that can be deployed from the front of the boat to give added propulsion.
Those electric ferries seem pretty cool and amazingly low cost. Tempting idea to consider buying one and building out a home on the deck.
One other thing to add.. It’s a pain in the ass for refueling… normally ya have to wait inline or even make an appointment… when ya fill up a 80 foot yacht you are looking to currently pay $6 - $7 a gallon for marine diesel.. 4500 gallon tank that’s $30k… Thats the very low end… Larger boats gas bills can get up to $250,000 and more for the super yachts… solar yachts feature spacious open design interiors with zero maintenance cost and down time… These boats aren’t flying off the selves because there is no shelf.. Want a solar boat get in line… The wait is in years…