I think a good analog for the French “tiens” in English would be “here” or “here you go.” We say this all the time in the US and it’s not really rude at all.
@@Kitiwake but what was the context ??? because if you just said "tiens" to a random french without context ... well i don't need to explain more why it is non polite at all, (also i think his reaction was a way less extreme than upset/offended)
I can forgive the French nation most things after that first mouthful of tarte d'abricots in the first patisserie i visit after crossing the channel. And the fact that one is instantly greeted on entering the shop just makes one feel like someone special.
Alex, since we refused to take part in the eastern war under Bush the US created an anti french propaganda to shame us for not bending the knee that's why there is so many bad prejudice against us moreover most english speaking people come to our country and don't try to understand how we live and communicate. Fortunately there are more and more people like you that try to recontextualise things, thanks for all your work ^^
(un)funny fact : this anti french propaganda (aka frenchbashing) is the starting point of the "surrender jokes" and they also renamed french fries into liberty fries XD
There are many French verbs which have several translations to/from English. Savoir can be "to know" or "to know how to" for example. Tenir means "to hold" OR "to hold THIS". There are many others. Il y a beaucoup verbes français quit ont plusieur traductions à/de anglais. Savoir peut être «to know» ou «to know how to» pour exemple. Tenir veut dire «to hold» OU «to hold THIS». Il y a beaucoup autres.
The defining characteristic of the French is impatience. This feeds into traits of behaviour such as language, the truncation and redacting of half of it in speech and the terms used. I don't know if impatience is actively taught to the young, or whether it's acquired as part of adult French lifestyle or culture. Rudeness? No, more like the English are easily offended.
Hi Alex - It does come down to language, as you say.(In English I note a lot is during interviews, people will start with ""Look...."" and it always sound slightly rude.) As for the French, I didn't have the same reaction to the choice of words so much as the reaction of some French speakers in a situation where I fumbled with the language. They rarely showed patience, but I think a bit harder for me was that they didn't seem to have a sense of humor about their language. If I said the wrong word, they would immediately ask why I said that, or what does that mean? This was mainly in Paris, where I encountered people like this. Elsewhere I found the French in general to be as pleasant as people almost anywhere and grew to like them quite a lot. I think in Paris the pressures of tourism might make some shopkeeper, waiters, etc impatient with outsiders.
"Tien" can also be translated in English as "by the way" in many instances, or to indicate that you are changing the topic: "Tien, tu as vu la meteo?" = By the way, have you seen the weather forecast?" No one is asking you to physically hold anything (even though "tien" does indeed derive from the verb "tenir" which means to hold.
I'm trying to be understanding, but the last time I was in Paris, I sat down in a posh cafe (one of those famous 'literary' ones where Ernest Hemingway may have supped), and ended up walking out without ever being served. I suppose being a single female tourist in not-so-elegant tourist get-up was the give-away, but it showed discrimination, for a start. And then just rudeness. Went around the corner to a less posh cafe, and had no trouble at all. They were happy to take my money. But I press on with the language as I have a trip to Tahiti coming up!
Its more there body language and facial expressions ive received from certain French people that lead me to believe there rude thats not to say I dislike the french though but I have had my fair share of bad experiences in France
Actually, spanish and portuguese do use 'tenga' and 'tenha' too. And about 'ecoutez' (or whatever you spell it) : Yeah, it may sound a little rude at first. But consider this: In english you will quite often here the imperative of 'to look'. Even though they don't want you to look. They just want you to pay attention. Anyway.. it's interesting, these differences. I'm dutch and we are also considered to be direct, but we do soften our words with other words, to make it sound less rude.
En effet, c'est exactement le raison pourquoi, quand on traduit quelque chose, on a besoin d'une comprehension culturelle ou tout simplement de comprendre le message lui-meme que quelque'un veut nous transmettre; sinon, on va tout traduire mot-a-mot, alors que deux langues differentes sont aussi deux mondes differents que ne se chevauchent pas toujours. =) Indeed, that's exactly why translation needs cultural understanding or basically just making sense of the actual message someone intends to express; otherwise, we'll translate everything word for word, and two different languages are also two different worlds, which do not always overlap. =) I tried to say it in French aussi; tell me if there are any mistakes, car je n'ai aucun probleme avec ca.
Exactement. Très bien dit Mark. Tu écris hyper bien ! Mieux que moi je pense ! Par rapport à ton commentaire, je pense que toi, tu as beaucoup d'experience avec ça car l'anglais est ta deuxième langue, si je ne me trompe pas, et le français c'est ta troisième ou quatrième ! Des corrections : LA raison. On ne dit pas "la raison pourquoi" en français. On dit "la raison pour laquelle". En fait, je publie une vidéo dessus sur Instagram demain. C'est marrant.
@@sterdezy1569 Ha. It's not that. It's because it was delivered in a 'dead pan' way. Meaning that it wasn't clearly a joke. That makes sense because it's written rather than spoken and we don't know each other. Nice one!
Sometimes being sophisticated can come across as ignorant, sometimes clever can come across as selfish. After living in 4 european countries and 2 internationally, le français are the most sophisticated and clever lot in the world ;)
IMO, one thing that can seem rude to foreigners is the general rhythm and stressing of French language. It can sound a bit non respectful to people who are not used to it. Which is not rude, it’s just the way French language is spoken.
We had the situation at ski school in France when my daughter was 3 years old. She was cold and tired and started to cry. The teacher told her to “shut up” - very direct and not conducive to calming/quietening her down! I wonder if this translation from “tais-toi” came across ruder than intended?
mos def.. the highschool "be quiet" doesn"t work. Shut up, maybe. people who don't deal with kids have strong opinions. I have a master under my belt and resigned before going crazy.I like kids well enough but I hate their parents; and there's no changing them, is it ? here you are, aren't you ? Some parents are too pushy, some too sensitive. No kids are mistreated in France by teachers in vacations. You may not like it but they know when to push, help kids over their fears of the snow, sometimes over their fears period. and they slap bullies over the head right away. no matter what their status in school, on ice, they need to earn their status. it's a real occasion of changing kids if you let things happen.
It's harsh. been there, done that. kids don't hold a grudge for that. memories are strange; actually she might not remember a thing. Good experience still; What do you know about it ? it's possible that a boy made her life hell ? you can't protect your child. you do your best.
I guess it depends. I'm friends with a whole bunch of French people here in the Philippines and have a French partner. The French are also paranoid and don't trust anyone to the point of disrespectful behaviour towards my people , especially in restaurants and tourist spots. They quickly assume bills are wrongly calculated , that theyre being overcharged and yes maybe they are white people in an asian country. But most times its out of character. I actually had to tell this lot and my partner off on several occasions. Not everyone in every country is out to scam or fool you 😂🙄 I hope this toxic mentality is changed
I’ve worked alongside French people in England, they were very pleasant. I travelled round France 35 years ago, they were very nice people. I lived in Montreal, most Quebecois were pleasant, but somewhat paranoid culturally, and sometimes very racist. However, Quebecois are in many ways more American than French. The French can appear arrogant, and aloof, perhaps because they are very proud of their culture, and maybe chauvinistic. But I don’t think they are arrogant.
Moi ce que je ne trouve pas poli, c’est de ne pas dire bonjour, ne pas se faire la bise, tourner autour du pot,… bref ce sont les autres qui ne sont pas polis, pas les français 😅
"Tiens-moi ça" exclut rarement une formule de politesse. Par contre, "tiens, voilà le facteur" ou "tiens, tu as vu le dernier épisode de GoT" sont effectivement faits pour attirer l'attention de l'interlocuteur. Aucune notion de politesse n'est nécessaire, ce n'est plus qu'un marqueur langagier, pas un verbe à l'impératif qui donne un ordre.
Ive met a few french people that were visting here in the states. .... they were rude. I do not want to generalize because of a couple bad experiences... but so far my experience with the french has not been positive. ...
The P-word plus the tone of voice would probably be a good clue. Just be polite even when faced with impatience, I think this is something that transcends cultures, as most people realise they're being unfair then, even if it's through seeing bystanders expressions if not yours directly.
Definitely not. The French mentality and way of life is different and for many, really shocking, according to my experiences. Their honesty, temperament, and fight for what they think are right things and freedoms is what is the most probable cause of the all problems, and it can be tiresome, but I do think it is important part of their culture and why they should be respected. At least for being different
Les français sont aussi vu comme étant chiâleux ou snob par beaucoup de canadien français. Je crois pas que c'est à cause de la langue considérant qu'on parle la même langue.
Les Français sont râleurs et non pas "chiâleux". Ce n'est pas pour rien que ce peuple à couper la tête de son Roi et fait avancer les droits de l'homme sur cette planète.
Très intéressant , mais je peux dire qu'en général le français ( surtout le parisien ) est réellement plus froid, plus arrogant et beaucoup moins courtois que l'anglais ou l'allemand .
le fameux "parigo" XD le mieux je trouve pour visiter la France c'est d'aller dans les petites villes ou villages de campagne, les gens y sont chaleureux et on peut mieux voir ce qu'est la France en réalité (et pour les français Paris est plus une ville où on y travaille plutot qu'une ville touristique ... pour nous je veux dire)
@@haydentenno6773 absolument le problème c'est que le français a une mauvaise réputation dans le monde à cause de l'image du parisien mesquin arrogant, agressif , discourtoie et arrogant alors les ricains anglais allemand pensent que le francouze est partout comme ça
I grew up in a northern Canadian town that was 50% English, 50% French and while it's true that half the "rudeness" is in the translation, they are most certainly rude in every other way. There is a certain level of bitterness that has never died in Canada because of the whole "let's kick all the French out and force them into Vermont" thing that happened in the 1800s. Some people don't know how to let things go.
It has nothing to do with language. I speak French and they were rude to me nonetheless. Their reputation comes from how they reply to tourists. I experienced their wrath a few times when I was there for simply asking simple questions. Even the store clerks wouldn't give me the time as a customer.
@Gary Allen Maybe not, I don't remember. I recently found out that greetings was important to the French. I never have to greet in Canada, the US nor the UK to be served well. Even in Switzerland the service was good. Only in France did I received rude service AF. So greetings or not, I think the French should give people some slack and don't be so anal about it.
Hmmm... I'm french and for me not greeting people when entering a shop is a great disrespect, so no wonder they were rude to you. If you go to a big 5 stars hotel or a fancy restaurant, they will excuse this behaviour. But in the bakery/coffee/butcher's shop... you are likely to have a bad service. By not greeting them, you are sending a signal that they are just servants who have to provide for all your desires, and not fellows humans you would like to trade with. I'm exaggerating a little but that's the idea. I'm a hotel receptionnist and I can assure you the difference of the services we provide to a client who says "Bonjour/s'il vous plait/merci/au revoir" and to a client who doesn't bother is tremendous. And usually, where I work (a simple 3-stars family-run hotel) if you don't greet people, you don't get a room...
@@poelee2706 Why is greeting not that required in other countries? Only in France do you make it such a bid deal. I get great service elsewhere whether I say hi or not. Maybe chill a little. You are such petty people.
We are not rude, we are just French 😂 I think k it’s mostly because also the French don’t feel the need to bend over backwards to please others so it may seem like arrogance.
I think a good analog for the French “tiens” in English would be “here” or “here you go.” We say this all the time in the US and it’s not really rude at all.
Yea but a lot of the time is used when it's not been asked for so it's more "hold".
I used Tiens to a francophone and he seemed upset/offended 😭.
@@Kitiwake but what was the context ??? because if you just said "tiens" to a random french without context ... well i don't need to explain more why it is non polite at all, (also i think his reaction was a way less extreme than upset/offended)
Très bonne analyse Alex! C'est vrai que les traductions littérales ne sont pas toujours adéquates.
I can forgive the French nation most things after that first mouthful of tarte d'abricots in the first patisserie i visit after crossing the channel. And the fact that one is instantly greeted on entering the shop just makes one feel like someone special.
Alex, since we refused to take part in the eastern war under Bush the US created an anti french propaganda to shame us for not bending the knee that's why there is so many bad prejudice against us moreover most english speaking people come to our country and don't try to understand how we live and communicate.
Fortunately there are more and more people like you that try to recontextualise things, thanks for all your work ^^
(un)funny fact : this anti french propaganda (aka frenchbashing) is the starting point of the "surrender jokes" and they also renamed french fries into liberty fries XD
Like you cheese eating surrender monkeys are any useful in war anyway
There are many French verbs which have several translations to/from English. Savoir can be "to know" or "to know how to" for example. Tenir means "to hold" OR "to hold THIS". There are many others.
Il y a beaucoup verbes français quit ont plusieur traductions à/de anglais. Savoir peut être «to know» ou «to know how to» pour exemple. Tenir veut dire «to hold» OU «to hold THIS». Il y a beaucoup autres.
Oui. C'est plutôt la manière dont il se disent qui paraît impoli.
The defining characteristic of the French is impatience. This feeds into traits of behaviour such as language, the truncation and redacting of half of it in speech and the terms used. I don't know if impatience is actively taught to the young, or whether it's acquired as part of adult French lifestyle or culture. Rudeness? No, more like the English are easily offended.
French are impatient, anglophones are social hypocrites...
Hi Alex - It does come down to language, as you say.(In English I note a lot is during interviews, people will start with ""Look...."" and it always sound slightly rude.) As for the French, I didn't have the same reaction to the choice of words so much as the reaction of some French speakers in a situation where I fumbled with the language. They rarely showed patience, but I think a bit harder for me was that they didn't seem to have a sense of humor about their language. If I said the wrong word, they would immediately ask why I said that, or what does that mean? This was mainly in Paris, where I encountered people like this. Elsewhere I found the French in general to be as pleasant as people almost anywhere and grew to like them quite a lot. I think in Paris the pressures of tourism might make some shopkeeper, waiters, etc impatient with outsiders.
"Tien" can also be translated in English as "by the way" in many instances, or to indicate that you are changing the topic: "Tien, tu as vu la meteo?" = By the way, have you seen the weather forecast?" No one is asking you to physically hold anything (even though "tien" does indeed derive from the verb "tenir" which means to hold.
I'm trying to be understanding, but the last time I was in Paris, I sat down in a posh cafe (one of those famous 'literary' ones where Ernest Hemingway may have supped), and ended up walking out without ever being served. I suppose being a single female tourist in not-so-elegant tourist get-up was the give-away, but it showed discrimination, for a start. And then just rudeness. Went around the corner to a less posh cafe, and had no trouble at all. They were happy to take my money. But I press on with the language as I have a trip to Tahiti coming up!
Paris is often a culture of its own. Tahiti will be totally different again. I think you'll love it there!
perso je dis toujours s'il te plaît quand je dis "tiens moi ça"
Its more there body language and facial expressions ive received from certain French people that lead me to believe there rude thats not to say I dislike the french though but I have had my fair share of bad experiences in France
Sounds like "tien" could be translated to "here you go", when you handing something to someone.
Yep!
Actually, spanish and portuguese do use 'tenga' and 'tenha' too. And about 'ecoutez' (or whatever you spell it) : Yeah, it may sound a little rude at first. But consider this: In english you will quite often here the imperative of 'to look'. Even though they don't want you to look. They just want you to pay attention. Anyway.. it's interesting, these differences. I'm dutch and we are also considered to be direct, but we do soften our words with other words, to make it sound less rude.
En effet, c'est exactement le raison pourquoi, quand on traduit quelque chose, on a besoin d'une comprehension culturelle ou tout simplement de comprendre le message lui-meme que quelque'un veut nous transmettre; sinon, on va tout traduire mot-a-mot, alors que deux langues differentes sont aussi deux mondes differents que ne se chevauchent pas toujours. =)
Indeed, that's exactly why translation needs cultural understanding or basically just making sense of the actual message someone intends to express; otherwise, we'll translate everything word for word, and two different languages are also two different worlds, which do not always overlap. =)
I tried to say it in French aussi; tell me if there are any mistakes, car je n'ai aucun probleme avec ca.
Exactement. Très bien dit Mark. Tu écris hyper bien ! Mieux que moi je pense !
Par rapport à ton commentaire, je pense que toi, tu as beaucoup d'experience avec ça car l'anglais est ta deuxième langue, si je ne me trompe pas, et le français c'est ta troisième ou quatrième !
Des corrections :
LA raison.
On ne dit pas "la raison pourquoi" en français. On dit "la raison pour laquelle". En fait, je publie une vidéo dessus sur Instagram demain. C'est marrant.
Did you know about these words? What are your views on the French language compared with English?
J'adore anglais et francais!
I am french, we are not rude we are just arrogant, it's different
I suppose it depends on your point of view. If you're on the receiving end of someone arrogant, you'll find them rude, right?
@@FrenchinPlainSight I am sorry you didn't get it, it was sarcastic, maybe I misspoke or maybe my joke doesn't work in English
@@sterdezy1569 Ha. It's not that. It's because it was delivered in a 'dead pan' way. Meaning that it wasn't clearly a joke. That makes sense because it's written rather than spoken and we don't know each other. Nice one!
Sometimes being sophisticated can come across as ignorant, sometimes clever can come across as selfish. After living in 4 european countries and 2 internationally, le français are the most sophisticated and clever lot in the world ;)
IMO, one thing that can seem rude to foreigners is the general rhythm and stressing of French language. It can sound a bit non respectful to people who are not used to it. Which is not rude, it’s just the way French language is spoken.
We had the situation at ski school in France when my daughter was 3 years old. She was cold and tired and started to cry. The teacher told her to “shut up” - very direct and not conducive to calming/quietening her down! I wonder if this translation from “tais-toi” came across ruder than intended?
mos def.. the highschool "be quiet" doesn"t work. Shut up, maybe. people who don't deal with kids have strong opinions. I have a master under my belt and resigned before going crazy.I like kids well enough but I hate their parents; and there's no changing them, is it ? here you are, aren't you ? Some parents are too pushy, some too sensitive. No kids are mistreated in France by teachers in vacations. You may not like it but they know when to push, help kids over their fears of the snow, sometimes over their fears period. and they slap bullies over the head right away. no matter what their status in school, on ice, they need to earn their status. it's a real occasion of changing kids if you let things happen.
It's harsh. been there, done that. kids don't hold a grudge for that. memories are strange; actually she might not remember a thing. Good experience still; What do you know about it ? it's possible that a boy made her life hell ? you can't protect your child. you do your best.
as a French saying this a crying 3 years old is cold, rude and most deserving of an "excuse me ?" from the parent
Why the 'Attention' to not pronounce Tenez as ténez??
I guess it depends. I'm friends with a whole bunch of French people here in the Philippines and have a French partner. The French are also paranoid and don't trust anyone to the point of disrespectful behaviour towards my people , especially in restaurants and tourist spots. They quickly assume bills are wrongly calculated , that theyre being overcharged and yes maybe they are white people in an asian country. But most times its out of character. I actually had to tell this lot and my partner off on several occasions. Not everyone in every country is out to scam or fool you 😂🙄 I hope this toxic mentality is changed
I’ve worked alongside French people in England, they were very pleasant. I travelled round France 35 years ago, they were very nice people. I lived in Montreal, most Quebecois were pleasant, but somewhat paranoid culturally, and sometimes very racist. However, Quebecois are in many ways more American than French. The French can appear arrogant, and aloof, perhaps because they are very proud of their culture, and maybe chauvinistic. But I don’t think they are arrogant.
Moi ce que je ne trouve pas poli, c’est de ne pas dire bonjour, ne pas se faire la bise, tourner autour du pot,… bref ce sont les autres qui ne sont pas polis, pas les français 😅
Merci beaucoup
De rien, merci d'avoir regardé et commenté Denise ! Connaissais-tu déjà ces mots ?
"Tiens-moi ça" exclut rarement une formule de politesse. Par contre, "tiens, voilà le facteur" ou "tiens, tu as vu le dernier épisode de GoT" sont effectivement faits pour attirer l'attention de l'interlocuteur. Aucune notion de politesse n'est nécessaire, ce n'est plus qu'un marqueur langagier, pas un verbe à l'impératif qui donne un ordre.
I think it's the directness that people find so jarring. Israelis are often the same way.
Yea I've heard that Hebrew is a very very direct language!
Ive met a few french people that were visting here in the states. .... they were rude. I do not want to generalize because of a couple bad experiences... but so far my experience with the french has not been positive. ...
Really interesting nuances that you pointed out! And I thought Britains were supposedly direct🙈
Haha. You've been fed misinformation there.
Very helpful but It poses the question, how do you know when tbey are being rude ?:D
Oh, you'll know...
@@FrenchinPlainSight 😂
The P-word plus the tone of voice would probably be a good clue. Just be polite even when faced with impatience, I think this is something that transcends cultures, as most people realise they're being unfair then, even if it's through seeing bystanders expressions if not yours directly.
Great video.
Merci Joe.
"Fog in the channel. Continent cut off"
Definitely not. The French mentality and way of life is different and for many, really shocking, according to my experiences. Their honesty, temperament, and fight for what they think are right things and freedoms is what is the most probable cause of the all problems, and it can be tiresome, but I do think it is important part of their culture and why they should be respected. At least for being different
Hold my beer 🍺
Hi. I don’t think « ecoute » or « ecoutez » are rude , BUT I find it annoying when the first thing a server in a restaurant says is « J’ecoute ».
Alex, bravo. Love your vids.
Would you consider maybe doing a 1 on 1 through Skype? Just wondering. Maybe 15-20 mins. Whatever time you can spare.
It depends on what you are looking for. Shoot me a message on Facebook (or wherever you prefer) and I'll get back to you.
Les français sont aussi vu comme étant chiâleux ou snob par beaucoup de canadien français. Je crois pas que c'est à cause de la langue considérant qu'on parle la même langue.
Les Français sont râleurs et non pas "chiâleux". Ce n'est pas pour rien que ce peuple à couper la tête de son Roi et fait avancer les droits de l'homme sur cette planète.
I don't find any of those words rude, or I'm used to it. I think the French are actually far more polite than people in the UK or the USA.
Très intéressant , mais je peux dire qu'en général le français ( surtout le parisien ) est réellement plus froid, plus arrogant et beaucoup moins courtois que l'anglais ou l'allemand .
le fameux "parigo" XD le mieux je trouve pour visiter la France c'est d'aller dans les petites villes ou villages de campagne, les gens y sont chaleureux et on peut mieux voir ce qu'est la France en réalité (et pour les français Paris est plus une ville où on y travaille plutot qu'une ville touristique ... pour nous je veux dire)
@@haydentenno6773 absolument le problème c'est que le français a une mauvaise réputation dans le monde à cause de l'image du parisien mesquin arrogant, agressif , discourtoie et arrogant alors les ricains anglais allemand pensent que le francouze est partout comme ça
I grew up in a northern Canadian town that was 50% English, 50% French and while it's true that half the "rudeness" is in the translation, they are most certainly rude in every other way. There is a certain level of bitterness that has never died in Canada because of the whole "let's kick all the French out and force them into Vermont" thing that happened in the 1800s. Some people don't know how to let things go.
It has nothing to do with language. I speak French and they were rude to me nonetheless. Their reputation comes from how they reply to tourists. I experienced their wrath a few times when I was there for simply asking simple questions. Even the store clerks wouldn't give me the time as a customer.
Sorry to hear about your experience? Whereabouts were you in France?
@Gary Allen Maybe not, I don't remember. I recently found out that greetings was important to the French. I never have to greet in Canada, the US nor the UK to be served well. Even in Switzerland the service was good. Only in France did I received rude service AF. So greetings or not, I think the French should give people some slack and don't be so anal about it.
Hmmm... I'm french and for me not greeting people when entering a shop is a great disrespect, so no wonder they were rude to you. If you go to a big 5 stars hotel or a fancy restaurant, they will excuse this behaviour. But in the bakery/coffee/butcher's shop... you are likely to have a bad service. By not greeting them, you are sending a signal that they are just servants who have to provide for all your desires, and not fellows humans you would like to trade with.
I'm exaggerating a little but that's the idea.
I'm a hotel receptionnist and I can assure you the difference of the services we provide to a client who says "Bonjour/s'il vous plait/merci/au revoir" and to a client who doesn't bother is tremendous. And usually, where I work (a simple 3-stars family-run hotel) if you don't greet people, you don't get a room...
@@poelee2706 Why is greeting not that required in other countries? Only in France do you make it such a bid deal. I get great service elsewhere whether I say hi or not. Maybe chill a little. You are such petty people.
@@canuck21 Yeah... we will not. Maybe just stay in your country if you don't wan't to conform to the rules and practices of the place you visit. :)
We are not rude, we are just French 😂 I think k it’s mostly because also the French don’t feel the need to bend over backwards to please others so it may seem like arrogance.
You just don't get it.
Complete nonsense.