The reason why prinz eugen had so much displacement was because she was very long, almost 60 feet longer than a county if I remember correctly. You also have to remember that some of that displace,ent would be take up by floatplanes and their facility’s which are not present in the game. Also, you should consider HMS Renown vs Scharnhorst, as seen during the action off lofoten.
Also, German ship designs weren't that advanced for the time, so much of the displacement might've been consumed by bad engineering. The treaty hit them hard in this regard. But Germans weren't the worst at this. If you want to see how seriously bad engineering can affect displacement you can look up Soviet BB class Sovetsky Soyuz that was supposed to displace a bit less than Yamato despite being considerably worse in every way imaginable.
@@jakeegan3195 Hermann Göring (Chief of Luftwaffe) onboard a Kriegsmarine (while Chief of Kriegsmarine was at this time Räder)? That's like putting no difference between Kaiserreich Germany to Third Reich Germany and saying that both are the same. There was no coordination between them which (funilly enough) ended after Operation Wikinger (Kriegsmarine lost 2 Destroyers due Dornier Bombers attacking them and hitting mines). Muostache Man with short Temper was furious (with good reason too) and afterwards relations got warmer. PS: Yes I know what you meant but hey, history fact.
If you want to recreate Hood, I suggest using the Battlecruiser V Hull in 1935, with the modern tower V and the Modern sec Tower III. Then you get pretty much exactly an Admiral class BC ;D
@@rishikeshvijay7680 that would never happen, mainly because one must be crazy to face a Nelson with a nagato and the fact that a Nelson would never dream of catching up to a nagato in terms of speed so nagato ran away and Nelson never saw her
@@carlosmarquez5901 well then what if its one of the suicide missions done by Japan where it has to sink last of the British warships stationed in indo Pacific cus the were sent there , then what??
Prinz Eugen's hydrophones were that good that before the battle she could detect Prince of Wales and Hood (and differentiate each ship) by the sound of their propellers over 36 miles, that a lot and over the Earth's curvature. In fact, after being claimed by the US they used that system until 1956-ish in all of the American submarines. I would say that 50 % training crew in Hood is too much, she was loaded with cadets when it blows (yeah, horrible).
Prince of Wales should have had an untrained crew to reflect the fact she was just coming out of trials and even had civilian technicians on board to help iron out continuing problems with her main armament.
Azuma (Project B-65) vs. USS Alaska class Cruisers. It will be a rather interesting battle as Project B-65 was developed to fight the Alaska Class Cruisers. But sadly, the war ended before they got a chance to clash.
Still putting the radar on Bismark, she had radar right up until she fired her first ranging shot, design flaw meant that shooting destroyed it, also Germans used light shells, the bits tried them thinking it might be good, but turned out they were crap, and they went back to normal.
The Battle of the Sisters: Fusō & Yamashiro vs Nelson & Rodney /// 2v2 It's late 1941, the British Admiralty has agreed to send the HMS Nelson and HMS Rodney to the far-east to reinforce their presence instead of sending HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales--the thought being that the two sister ships should compliment each other well with regards to performance and firepower. The Japanese are waiting and have set a trap--while the main strike force sent to Hawaii is commencing the raid on Pearl Harbor, the Fusō and Yamashiro have been dispatched to the Indian Ocean to blockade any reinforcements being sent via the Suez Canal. The pairs of ships both have the same maximum speed of 23 knots while their armament could also be considered a draw. It's a battle of sisters as the aging dreadnought style ships hold their ground against the advancing British treaty-built battleships. Fusō-class battleship Displacement 35,900 long tons (36,500 t) (full load) Length 202.7 m (665 ft) (overall) Beam 28.7 m (94 ft 2 in) Installed power 24 × Miyahara water-tube boilers 40,000 shp (30,000 kW) Propulsion 4 × shafts; 2 × steam turbine sets Speed 23 knots (43 km/h; 26 mph) Range 8,000 nmi (15,000 km; 9,200 mi) at 14 knots (26 km/h; 16 mph) Complement 1,198 Armament 6 × twin 356 mm (14 in) guns 16 × single 152 mm (6 in) guns 6 × 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes Armor Waterline belt 229-305 mm (9-12 in) Deck: 32-51 mm (1.3-2.0 in) Gun turrets: 229-279 mm (9-11 in) Barbettes: 203-305 mm (8-12 in) Conning tower: 351 mm (13.8 in) Nelson-class battleship Displacement 37,780 long tons (38,390 t) (full load) Length 709 ft 10 in (216.4 m) o/a Beam 106 ft (32.3 m) Installed power 8 × Admiralty 3-drum boilers 45,000 shp (34,000 kW) Propulsion 2 shafts; 2 geared steam turbines Speed 23 knots (43 km/h; 26 mph) Range 7,000 nmi (13,000 km; 8,100 mi) at 16 knots (30 km/h; 18 mph) Complement 1,361 (flagship) Armament 3 × triple 16 in (406 mm) guns 6 × twin 6 in (152 mm) guns 6 × single 4.7 in (120 mm) AA guns 8 × single 2 pdr (40 mm (1.6 in)) AA guns 2 × 24.5 in (622 mm) torpedo tubes Armour Waterline belt: 13-14 in (330-356 mm) Deck: 3.75-6.25 in (95-159 mm) Barbettes: 12-15 in (305-381 mm) Gun turrets: 9-16 in (229-406 mm) Conning tower: 12-14 in (305-356 mm) Bulkheads: 4-12 in (102-305 mm)
Something i still miss in the game is to allow you to field different classes of battleships. Right now you can field xy amount of bs/bc/ca/cl etc but they will all be of one design.
There were two books that I came across when I was younger. Jane’s Fighting ships of world war 1 and 2 how accurate they I couldn’t tell you but when your 9-10 years old they were amazing
"Before one of those shells finds a way through her very soft deck armor." Yeah, that's why Adm. Holland was bumrushing Bismarck like he did historically, he was afraid of plunging fire, specifically from Bismarck, though Eugen to a lesser extent as well.
Who knows if that's why he was doing it but RN doctrine at the time was to close with the enemy. So whether he was trying to save the ship from plunging fire or just following standard procedure will never be known.
There is a very, very good video from Drachinifel discussing exactly this issue. Let me find a link. th-cam.com/video/CLPeC7LRqIY/w-d-xo.html The very quick version was an incredibly lucky shot from Bismark that fell just short and penetrated below the armor belt.
Vanguard vs Bismarck? The Bismarck was never caught after sinking Hood, the war drags on forever, then she somehow encounters the new untested british battleship Vanguard. Both are 50k tons and both have 15" guns right?
@@violetvictoria9908 As much I love the SS Bismarck, it did suck in the battleship role. That said, Plan Z intended for a multitude of Bismarck class BB’s and cruisers (as well as four planned carriers, the Graf Zeppelin, Peter Strasser, Elbe, and another one I think) to operate as a combined fleet. Bismarck was just thrown away for a role that it was never built to do. Imagine convoy raiding with one of the most advanced BB’s in history, surely the Kriegsmarine would never do that huh?
It's just that we never got to see the last and also the largest British battleship ever commissioned, in action. The last American, German, Italian, Japanese battleships all saw action. Even the French Richelieus saw little combat :(
I love how you are doing the best within the tool to design the ships. I would hope the developers see things like this and think of ways to adjust the design process further to allow for better matches. Well done. .
I really hope they add in a ballast option where you can adjust for/aft off-set using for/aft ballast that uses up some of the displacement. Or the option to use the fuel capacity as ballast.
Number one thing I'd do if I could go back in time. Tell the guy laying out the armour to just extend the belt a few feet back and add 2 feet down across the rear magazine. Jump back to the future and see what happened. Like there are tones of other things to change but all other items on time travel change list have world shattering results that completely change history. But a few tones of belt armour added to protect the Hood just to confirm a theory and the ultimate outcome of everything else shouldn't change too much.
@@mendez256 No, even 1 small change will change everything, butterfly effect remember? bismarck might not get rudder damage, or maybe german would win the war. don't change anything, just be an observer good enough
The King George V class were interesting with those 14 inch naval rifles, since they were the only treaty battleships that kept the Washington/ London naval treaty limits on battleship gun size. The American North Carolina class (NC and Washington) were originally designed with triple quad 14" but after the Japanese refused size limits (since the Yamato and Musashi were going to have 18.1 rifles) the US took advantage of an escape clause and replaced the quad 14s with triple 16 inch main rifles.
Tegethoff vs Gangut (battle of the triple turret WWI battleships) Admiral Hipper vs HMS Berwick SMS Baden vs HMS Queen Elizabeth Battle of River Plate recreation
She was really deffended in terms of redundant bouyancy, compartimentalization and structure. Plus nukes are really bad at killing ships unless detonated really close or underneath, you'd be surprised...
@@antaresmc4407 agreed, I am aware nukes are bad at killing ship, she was 1,100 meters away from the center in both tests. I would argue her British counterparts were not significantly more armored.
1:30 What popped to my mind instantly is the question why you gave Bismarck light shells when in fact if fired heavy shells at high muzzle velocity back in the day. Edit: 3:32 surprisingly little armor on Prinz Eugen, considering what she had in comparison to contemporaries.
@Ranek Not so, it's BEEN documented that despite using similar calibers as the British, the Germans favored lighter shells for better penetration capacity and speed of reloading.
Suggestions USS Samuel B Roberts DE-413 Vs USS Johnston, IJN Kongo Vs HMS Hood WW2, IJN Nagato vs KMS Bismarck, IJN Mogami 6” guns vs USS Cleveland, and theses are fun to watch
Bismarck getting it's rudder damaged by a torpedo? Check Hood getting sunk? Check Prince of Wales hauling ass out of there afterwards? Check I guess these are just universal constants lol
These are fun, but it is a shame the AI is so clueless. Prince of Wales was a non-factor when even basic sense should have had her try to help out the hood by dropping to the back of the line at sine point. Especially once Bismarck ran out of main gun shells, since the Prince could have come in much closer and really bullied the German ships then. I'm actually surprised the AI ships didn't really seem to react at all when Bismarck ran out of shells, except maybe for her turning away from the fight.
Interestingly enough, in the real battle the Bismarck not only hit the Hood with a devastating shot that exploded her, she also hit the Prince of Wales in the Bridge on the compass platform, killing pretty much all officers present except the captain.
Same happened to the Bismarck at its final battle. The KGV shot a HE shell at the Bismarck, which hit the Bridge, killed all the officers and the Admiral, Lütgens, in a lucky shot. Only the captain lived from the explosion.
Outnumbered and surrounded, uh... Quite a few to 1. 2 main threats, another KGV and a Nelson. Question if how much could she do rather than could she win.
About Prinz Eugen armor, according to Drachinifel, the reason the ships weighted so much is that the turtle back citadel covered nearly the entirety of the ship. (6:40) yeah… Bismarck had so much armor that only Yamato beat him when it came to overall armor (7:55) Yup, Hood may have saved Prince of Wales from joining her by launching those before the 15in hit. (20:31) yeah, pretty much what actually happened during the battle of the Danemark strait… but it was a 14 inch from Prince of Wales instead of a 15 inch from Hood.
Not watched it yet, just showed off Prinz Eugen and paused to type this out, if the Bismarck can damage the British enough that they could escape without taking too much damage then I call whatever happens a win for the Germans. That was this raiding forces original mission and seeing the armour scheme of the Eugen really shows it, it can stop guns from cargo transports and maybe something from an escort.
How about USS North Carolina vs Sovtsky Soyuz. Even though North Carolina has less displacement at 35,000 tons vs project 23 60,000- 65,000 tons I still think it would be a good battle.
She did. In fact Prinz Eugen did report enemy torpedos in the water shortly before Hood blew up - and Prince of Wales didn't carry any. Moreover, Hood's torpedos blowing up aboard is one of the many theories how that cataclysmic explosion came about (albeit a rather unlikely one all things considered)
I know this is going to sound like a salty brit but I am fully aware that the hood was sunk convincingly, that being said the hood actually had a fire control radar whereas the bismark did not.
As a salty Brit this is how I would have expected Hood to get taken down if not for the extremely (un)lucky shot that appears to have pierced one if the very few locations a 15" shell could have hit to detonate a magazine. And I was thinking "of course Bismarck had radar, it was disabled within the first few shots". Search radar but yes, not proper fire control radar. As an addendum, the Hood being sunk convincingly is (after researching all possibilities, and agreeing with Drach) her own fault for steaming at such speed that she exposed areas that were supposed to be under water. If she hadn't been in such a rush to catch the Bismarck or had a different hull form that didn't cause such a valley of water around the aft magazine she would probably be a museum ship right now.
it had an all or nothing citadel. A quick google search would tell you that all British capital ships post hood used the all or nothing scheme. e.g Nelson class and King George V class
Any ship out there that had entire hull double bottom? Bismarck certainly not. Either all ships should be single bottom or all ships should be double bottom, this was for some reason rigged one way,
I still don't know why the devs of this game fix that issue with weight offsetting, can't make a good looking ship if you need to move the rear turrets almost to the edge of the stern
The AI could have done better. First both squadrons were in line formation. Hood lead Prince of Wales and Prinz Eugen lead Bismarck. Prince Eugen and Bismarck focused on the Hood, while the Hood targeted Prinz Eugen and Prince of Wales targeted Bismarck.
Do please take into account that Hood, although she did have a 12" belt, it was inclined at such an angle that it would have been closer to 13" in the ranges where the battle was thought to take place. I, however, am not quite familiar with the game in question so, my knowledge on whether or not that is something that can be taken into account when making ships is not known to me. Still, a very nice battle.
I've wargamed the Battle of the Denmark Strait scenario half a dozen times with the rules There's The Effing Scheer and while Hood always struggles, it tends to lean towards a British victory (but not certain of course). The magazine explosion was never a foregone conclusion, but I always wonder what could have happened if Prince of Wales had led the British formation, with its better armour to absorb the early hits.
The hood was, for 1920, an amazing ship. She had only slightly thinner armor than the Queen Elizabeths, and was fast and well armed. By 1940 she wasn't nearly as good, but was also one of the few ships capable of catching Bismarck and putting up a fair fight. As you said the magazine hit was just amazing luck for Bismarck.
Btw Washington treaty BBs of allied nations tended to run all or nothing armor schemes to keep it economical and keep the tonnage down to increase fleet sizes
One encounter that could have happened is the USS Iowa vs the KMS Tirpitz. As a matter of fact for a few months after her commissioning I believe, the Iowa patrolled the Atlantic to hunt down the Tirpitz adminst rumors that the German battleship was operating in the Atlantic at the time. However the two ships never met. But the Tirpitz was lucky not to have encountered the Iowa as the American battleship would have made quick work of the German ship. The Bismarck class was considerably inferior to the Iowa class. In fact the Tirpitz would have faced a faster and more opponent they'd never would have seriously damage or escape from. At best the Iowa would be guaranteed to achieve a mission kill against the German ship at which point the captain of Tirpitz would scuttle his ship.
3x Des Moines vs 3x CA Ibuki (I know she was unfinished and partially converted to a CVL, but if she had been completed to spec). I am curious about torpedo focused cruiser vs Gun cruiser. I don't know if it'll be interesting though, AI is pretty bad with torps.
@@TukikoTroy no I read the French expected to encounter Graff Spee and DK and her sister ship were built specifically to counter the Deutschland class “ pocket battleships”. DK had a main belt of 9 inches backed up by an inch of timber so she didn’t exceed Washington treaty limits. She only had 13.5 inch guns, and by the time Scharnhorst hit the scene the French had already surrendered. I’m sure Stealth gaming here, or drachfineal will confirm my statement. Scharnhorst and her sister ( I’ll butcher the name so I’m not writing it) were built as primarily commerce raiding battlecruisers. With 9 11 inch guns they were actually under armed and the plan was always to upgun them with Bismarck style turrets packing 15 inch guns. Graff Spee was built during the Washington treaty unlike S and G. GS was built specifically as a commerce raider and was out of her weight class if she engaged anything but a light cruiser cause she really was a glass cannon, or she could dole out the beatings but not take one. DK was designed specifically to corner GS and do just that
Why did you give Prince of Wales armoured citadel it used an all or nothing scheme. British armour plating was also among the best socshoul be krupp in although I'm not completely sure on this one. It's a crime how you gave bismarck better armour quality than POW. Please could you redo this?
Yeah the KGV's when designed sacrificed additional firepower for there protection, initially being designed with 3 quad 14" guns. The confusion probably comes from the KGV's having an external belt compared to there contemporaries with their internal armor schemes. But the armor scheme was all or nothing like most all fast battleships bar the Germans
The armor of the Prince here was not the issue. It just barely did anything at all. She wasn't seriously damaged either. I have way too many scenarios to go through to re-do these battles.
I wouldn't expect you to redo it. This series is great and your UAD content is my favorite on the channel. I at least am not expecting perfection, you're not a naval historian and having daily videos far outweighs any little lapse in accuracy. Keep up the great work love the channel.
What nonsense is this? Your claim is untrue. The 1937 refit removed the underwater torpedo tubes for deck mounted tubes and was done at Malta over two months.
How about Richelieu vs HMS nelson? two ships with bows full off big guns and sterns chock full of secondaries.. would be intresting to see
Or even richelieu vs littorio
ships that were meant to face off but didnt get a chance
The reason why prinz eugen had so much displacement was because she was very long, almost 60 feet longer than a county if I remember correctly. You also have to remember that some of that displace,ent would be take up by floatplanes and their facility’s which are not present in the game.
Also, you should consider HMS Renown vs Scharnhorst, as seen during the action off lofoten.
That or Herrmann goring was onboard while it was being weighed
Also, German ship designs weren't that advanced for the time, so much of the displacement might've been consumed by bad engineering. The treaty hit them hard in this regard.
But Germans weren't the worst at this. If you want to see how seriously bad engineering can affect displacement you can look up Soviet BB class Sovetsky Soyuz that was supposed to displace a bit less than Yamato despite being considerably worse in every way imaginable.
@@jakeegan3195 Hermann Göring (Chief of Luftwaffe) onboard a Kriegsmarine (while Chief of Kriegsmarine was at this time Räder)?
That's like putting no difference between Kaiserreich Germany to Third Reich Germany and saying that both are the same.
There was no coordination between them which (funilly enough) ended after Operation Wikinger (Kriegsmarine lost 2 Destroyers due Dornier Bombers attacking them and hitting mines). Muostache Man with short Temper was furious (with good reason too) and afterwards relations got warmer.
PS: Yes I know what you meant but hey, history fact.
+ Prinz Eugen had historically little over 14 000 t.
@@duben.2duben268 more around 16000 the about 19000 at full load
By the time Prince of Wales was built I believe 'All or Nothing' was basically standard for all the major navies except for Germany.
If you want to recreate Hood, I suggest using the Battlecruiser V Hull in 1935, with the modern tower V and the Modern sec Tower III. Then you get pretty much exactly an Admiral class BC ;D
Oh ok thanks
@@Stealth17Gaming I'm still pushing for Nelson vs nagato..
@@rishikeshvijay7680 that would never happen, mainly because one must be crazy to face a Nelson with a nagato and the fact that a Nelson would never dream of catching up to a nagato in terms of speed so nagato ran away and Nelson never saw her
@@carlosmarquez5901 well then what if its one of the suicide missions done by Japan where it has to sink last of the British warships stationed in indo Pacific cus the were sent there , then what??
@@carlosmarquez5901 it's not the nelson hunting but being hunted
Prinz Eugen's hydrophones were that good that before the battle she could detect Prince of Wales and Hood (and differentiate each ship) by the sound of their propellers over 36 miles, that a lot and over the Earth's curvature. In fact, after being claimed by the US they used that system until 1956-ish in all of the American submarines.
I would say that 50 % training crew in Hood is too much, she was loaded with cadets when it blows (yeah, horrible).
Prince of Wales should have had an untrained crew to reflect the fact she was just coming out of trials and even had civilian technicians on board to help iron out continuing problems with her main armament.
I'd like to see the Battle of the River Plate, a duel between the Exeter, Ajax and the Achilles Vs The Admiral Graf Spee.
Got my vote... I want to see the Admiral Graphite spreader... Or Graf Spee...
@@CMDRSweeper you didn’t see graphite because it’s not there
spee will beat the shit out of them, its not even a fight
@@a-mz2deWell, they managed to beat her once, so... 😬
Azuma (Project B-65) vs. USS Alaska class Cruisers. It will be a rather interesting battle as Project B-65 was developed to fight the Alaska Class Cruisers. But sadly, the war ended before they got a chance to clash.
Still putting the radar on Bismark, she had radar right up until she fired her first ranging shot, design flaw meant that shooting destroyed it, also Germans used light shells, the bits tried them thinking it might be good, but turned out they were crap, and they went back to normal.
Floatplanes to spot/identify targets would be an interesting addition.
And give players a good reason to mount 2" guns.
The Battle of the Sisters:
Fusō & Yamashiro vs Nelson & Rodney /// 2v2
It's late 1941, the British Admiralty has agreed to send the HMS Nelson and HMS Rodney to the far-east to reinforce their presence instead of sending HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales--the thought being that the two sister ships should compliment each other well with regards to performance and firepower. The Japanese are waiting and have set a trap--while the main strike force sent to Hawaii is commencing the raid on Pearl Harbor, the Fusō and Yamashiro have been dispatched to the Indian Ocean to blockade any reinforcements being sent via the Suez Canal. The pairs of ships both have the same maximum speed of 23 knots while their armament could also be considered a draw. It's a battle of sisters as the aging dreadnought style ships hold their ground against the advancing British treaty-built battleships.
Fusō-class battleship
Displacement
35,900 long tons (36,500 t) (full load)
Length
202.7 m (665 ft) (overall)
Beam 28.7 m (94 ft 2 in)
Installed power
24 × Miyahara water-tube boilers
40,000 shp (30,000 kW)
Propulsion 4 × shafts; 2 × steam turbine sets
Speed 23 knots (43 km/h; 26 mph)
Range 8,000 nmi (15,000 km; 9,200 mi) at 14 knots (26 km/h; 16 mph)
Complement 1,198
Armament
6 × twin 356 mm (14 in) guns
16 × single 152 mm (6 in) guns
6 × 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes
Armor
Waterline belt 229-305 mm (9-12 in)
Deck: 32-51 mm (1.3-2.0 in)
Gun turrets: 229-279 mm (9-11 in)
Barbettes: 203-305 mm (8-12 in)
Conning tower: 351 mm (13.8 in)
Nelson-class battleship
Displacement
37,780 long tons (38,390 t) (full load)
Length 709 ft 10 in (216.4 m) o/a
Beam 106 ft (32.3 m)
Installed power
8 × Admiralty 3-drum boilers
45,000 shp (34,000 kW)
Propulsion 2 shafts; 2 geared steam turbines
Speed 23 knots (43 km/h; 26 mph)
Range 7,000 nmi (13,000 km; 8,100 mi) at 16 knots (30 km/h; 18 mph)
Complement
1,361 (flagship)
Armament
3 × triple 16 in (406 mm) guns
6 × twin 6 in (152 mm) guns
6 × single 4.7 in (120 mm) AA guns
8 × single 2 pdr (40 mm (1.6 in)) AA guns
2 × 24.5 in (622 mm) torpedo tubes
Armour
Waterline belt: 13-14 in (330-356 mm)
Deck: 3.75-6.25 in (95-159 mm)
Barbettes: 12-15 in (305-381 mm)
Gun turrets: 9-16 in (229-406 mm)
Conning tower: 12-14 in (305-356 mm)
Bulkheads: 4-12 in (102-305 mm)
Fuso class has no chance against the Nelsons realistically. Interesting backstory though.
Something i still miss in the game is to allow you to field different classes of battleships. Right now you can field xy amount of bs/bc/ca/cl etc but they will all be of one design.
There were two books that I came across when I was younger. Jane’s Fighting ships of world war 1 and 2 how accurate they I couldn’t tell you but when your 9-10 years old they were amazing
Janes publications are often used as base reference material by militaries and other organisations world-wide.
"Before one of those shells finds a way through her very soft deck armor."
Yeah, that's why Adm. Holland was bumrushing Bismarck like he did historically, he was afraid of plunging fire, specifically from Bismarck, though Eugen to a lesser extent as well.
Who knows if that's why he was doing it but RN doctrine at the time was to close with the enemy. So whether he was trying to save the ship from plunging fire or just following standard procedure will never be known.
Hood's deck armor was too thick for Bismarck to penetrate at the range that Hood was destroyed at. The shell would have just skipped off the deck.
There is a very, very good video from Drachinifel discussing exactly this issue. Let me find a link.
th-cam.com/video/CLPeC7LRqIY/w-d-xo.html
The very quick version was an incredibly lucky shot from Bismark that fell just short and penetrated below the armor belt.
Would love to see USS Georgia versus Yamato. Even though Georgia was a paper ship, she was supposed to have 18” guns
Vanguard vs Bismarck? The Bismarck was never caught after sinking Hood, the war drags on forever, then she somehow encounters the new untested british battleship Vanguard. Both are 50k tons and both have 15" guns right?
vanguard would have annihilated hood. its tech was vastly superior and bismarck sucked anyway as a battleship
@@violetvictoria9908 As much I love the SS Bismarck, it did suck in the battleship role. That said, Plan Z intended for a multitude of Bismarck class BB’s and cruisers (as well as four planned carriers, the Graf Zeppelin, Peter Strasser, Elbe, and another one I think) to operate as a combined fleet. Bismarck was just thrown away for a role that it was never built to do. Imagine convoy raiding with one of the most advanced BB’s in history, surely the Kriegsmarine would never do that huh?
It's just that we never got to see the last and also the largest British battleship ever commissioned, in action. The last American, German, Italian, Japanese battleships all saw action. Even the French Richelieus saw little combat :(
I like how even in this, the hood took one last, defiant volley of the X and Y turrets before succumbing to the flames.
I love how you are doing the best within the tool to design the ships. I would hope the developers see things like this and think of ways to adjust the design process further to allow for better matches. Well done. .
How about Knyaz Suvorov vs Mikasa? Maybe somehow we can make Rozhestvensky proud
I really hope they add in a ballast option where you can adjust for/aft off-set using for/aft ballast that uses up some of the displacement. Or the option to use the fuel capacity as ballast.
I like how tanks do the gun salute and raise the gun to reload but warships lower the gun to reload, very neat details.
I think that'd just be autoloaded guns, the gun has to return to the neutral position to reload
Interestingly, it wasn't the deck armor that doomed the Hood.
Number one thing I'd do if I could go back in time. Tell the guy laying out the armour to just extend the belt a few feet back and add 2 feet down across the rear magazine.
Jump back to the future and see what happened.
Like there are tones of other things to change but all other items on time travel change list have world shattering results that completely change history. But a few tones of belt armour added to protect the Hood just to confirm a theory and the ultimate outcome of everything else shouldn't change too much.
@@mendez256 No, even 1 small change will change everything, butterfly effect remember? bismarck might not get rudder damage, or maybe german would win the war. don't change anything, just be an observer good enough
My favourite german vessel. the yamato
The King George V class were interesting with those 14 inch naval rifles, since they were the only treaty battleships that kept the Washington/ London naval treaty limits on battleship gun size. The American North Carolina class (NC and Washington) were originally designed with triple quad 14" but after the Japanese refused size limits (since the Yamato and Musashi were going to have 18.1 rifles) the US took advantage of an escape clause and replaced the quad 14s with triple 16 inch main rifles.
I find it funny how the battle ended almost the exact same way with Hood defiantly going down to an injured Bismarck while PoW makes her getaway.
For a ship (Prinz Eugen) that took 2 atom bombs to the chin and kept smiling, the armor on it, rly isnt something to write home about.
Classic, great to see you re-do this one. Thank you
Tegethoff vs Gangut (battle of the triple turret WWI battleships)
Admiral Hipper vs HMS Berwick
SMS Baden vs HMS Queen Elizabeth
Battle of River Plate recreation
Admiral hipper class vs mogami pls
The Hood just not dying is kind of funny.
Given Prizne Eugen survived the war, than got two nukes dropped on her, and she still was afloat, I would say she had enough armor.
She was really deffended in terms of redundant bouyancy, compartimentalization and structure. Plus nukes are really bad at killing ships unless detonated really close or underneath, you'd be surprised...
@@antaresmc4407 agreed, I am aware nukes are bad at killing ship, she was 1,100 meters away from the center in both tests. I would argue her British counterparts were not significantly more armored.
nukes are better at killing the crew several years later
1:30 What popped to my mind instantly is the question why you gave Bismarck light shells when in fact if fired heavy shells at high muzzle velocity back in the day.
Edit:
3:32 surprisingly little armor on Prinz Eugen, considering what she had in comparison to contemporaries.
Bismarks 15" shells were 1800lb vs Hoods 15" 1938lb 15" shells
@Ranek Not so, it's BEEN documented that despite using similar calibers as the British, the Germans favored lighter shells for better penetration capacity and speed of reloading.
The Hood had no chance against the Bismarck because it was a battlecruiser with less armor. Have the Nelson go up against the Bismarck.
Very slightly less armor. Hood was a fast battleship in all but name. 305mm belt.
@@Neneset Exactly. Hood was amazingly well armored for a battlecruiser and had the punch and speed to back it up.
Suggestions USS Samuel B Roberts DE-413 Vs USS Johnston, IJN Kongo Vs HMS Hood WW2, IJN Nagato vs KMS Bismarck, IJN Mogami 6” guns vs USS Cleveland, and theses are fun to watch
Mate, stop posting it on every video. I've already seen it and added it to the list.
O ok didn’t know if you saw it and deleted from all the others
Bismarck getting it's rudder damaged by a torpedo? Check
Hood getting sunk? Check
Prince of Wales hauling ass out of there afterwards? Check
I guess these are just universal constants lol
the torpedo salvo at 23:52 almost bismarcked the bismarck
Just started the video. Prediction: Prinz Eugen will torpedo the Bismarck, because that's how the AI does things.
These are fun, but it is a shame the AI is so clueless. Prince of Wales was a non-factor when even basic sense should have had her try to help out the hood by dropping to the back of the line at sine point. Especially once Bismarck ran out of main gun shells, since the Prince could have come in much closer and really bullied the German ships then. I'm actually surprised the AI ships didn't really seem to react at all when Bismarck ran out of shells, except maybe for her turning away from the fight.
cant wait to see how these compare to drachinifel and brother monroe's designs for these
Interestingly enough, in the real battle the Bismarck not only hit the Hood with a devastating shot that exploded her, she also hit the Prince of Wales in the Bridge on the compass platform, killing pretty much all officers present except the captain.
Same happened to the Bismarck at its final battle. The KGV shot a HE shell at the Bismarck, which hit the Bridge, killed all the officers and the Admiral, Lütgens, in a lucky shot. Only the captain lived from the explosion.
I was a fan but after watching this I'm a whole air conditioner
How about Bismarcks last battle but with an intect rudder?
Outnumbered and surrounded, uh... Quite a few to 1. 2 main threats, another KGV and a Nelson.
Question if how much could she do rather than could she win.
@@mendez256If the AI isnt fucking stupid, she might have a Chance because of her Speed.
Man I haven't been on this channel in a while, I remember watching these videos back in 2020
What about Roma, V. Veneto and Zara Vs Vanguard, Repulse and Belfast?
A lot of ships, I know but.. it would be funny to watch 😂😅
how would you do vanguard and repulse they'e 2 different classes of battlecruiser.
Another excellent vid. Love your commentary style :)
I believe that the Bismarck had a hydrophone
I have a battle suggestion!
SMS "Emden" vs. HMAS "Sydney"
Both cruisers of WWI, Emden armed with 4 inch guns and Sydney armed with 6 inch guns.
I would Love to See the Hindenburg (German late war paper BB) versus the Yamato
Source
About Prinz Eugen armor, according to Drachinifel, the reason the ships weighted so much is that the turtle back citadel covered nearly the entirety of the ship.
(6:40) yeah… Bismarck had so much armor that only Yamato beat him when it came to overall armor
(7:55) Yup, Hood may have saved Prince of Wales from joining her by launching those before the 15in hit.
(20:31) yeah, pretty much what actually happened during the battle of the Danemark strait… but it was a 14 inch from Prince of Wales instead of a 15 inch from Hood.
30:58 you can see lifeboats in the hood
Not watched it yet, just showed off Prinz Eugen and paused to type this out, if the Bismarck can damage the British enough that they could escape without taking too much damage then I call whatever happens a win for the Germans. That was this raiding forces original mission and seeing the armour scheme of the Eugen really shows it, it can stop guns from cargo transports and maybe something from an escort.
How about USS North Carolina vs Sovtsky Soyuz. Even though North Carolina has less displacement at 35,000 tons vs project 23 60,000- 65,000 tons I still think it would be a good battle.
Prince of Wales needs to pay... Yamato vs Prince of Wales :D see if she runs away from that too!
From what I know the KGV class had the "all or nothing armour scheme". I believe this started with the Nelson and Rodney
Ah yess my favorite German heavy cruiser the Montana
I like the acronym of the Prince of Wales. "POW!"
Hood had front half updated but back half wasn't touch
The hood could have survived if the Brit’s had planned a better approach
Think we could get an actual night battle USS Washington VS IJNS Kirashima?
Id like to see a refitted hood vs bismarck.
Hood did not have any torpedoes in World War II
She did. In fact Prinz Eugen did report enemy torpedos in the water shortly before Hood blew up - and Prince of Wales didn't carry any. Moreover, Hood's torpedos blowing up aboard is one of the many theories how that cataclysmic explosion came about (albeit a rather unlikely one all things considered)
Hood's torpedoes were to be removed in the 1941 refit. She did have them at the time of the battle.
18:12
Bismarck know the torpedo won't hit so it's sail straight casually
the classic duel, lets see round 2
The battle of North Cape next I think you will like to see this one !!!!!
I would like to see H-44 Super Battleship vs IJN Yamato
I know this is going to sound like a salty brit but I am fully aware that the hood was sunk convincingly, that being said the hood actually had a fire control radar whereas the bismark did not.
As a salty Brit this is how I would have expected Hood to get taken down if not for the extremely (un)lucky shot that appears to have pierced one if the very few locations a 15" shell could have hit to detonate a magazine.
And I was thinking "of course Bismarck had radar, it was disabled within the first few shots". Search radar but yes, not proper fire control radar.
As an addendum, the Hood being sunk convincingly is (after researching all possibilities, and agreeing with Drach) her own fault for steaming at such speed that she exposed areas that were supposed to be under water. If she hadn't been in such a rush to catch the Bismarck or had a different hull form that didn't cause such a valley of water around the aft magazine she would probably be a museum ship right now.
KG5 had a Double Hull(amidships to protect engine room and machinery spaces, but not the entire hull) and an Armored Citadel(AC3 in-game).
it had an all or nothing citadel. A quick google search would tell you that all British capital ships post hood used the all or nothing scheme. e.g Nelson class and King George V class
Any ship out there that had entire hull double bottom? Bismarck certainly not. Either all ships should be single bottom or all ships should be double bottom, this was for some reason rigged one way,
When building a KGV you can get the airplane storage area. It is a secondary later on.
Littorio Class Battleship vs KGV Class Battleship
You should do the refit Hood vs Bismark
great video Stealth, please try putting the HMS Warspite up against either the Bismarck or the Yamato
ARA Rivadavia vs Almirante Latorre (Clash on the South)
I still don't know why the devs of this game fix that issue with weight offsetting, can't make a good looking ship if you need to move the rear turrets almost to the edge of the stern
Oh yeah
small issue with the ships, by the time the KGVs were built the British had armour quality of equal if not superior quality to the Germans
what about a
Design 1047 battlecruiser using the Germans
vs
Kongō class?
The AI could have done better. First both squadrons were in line formation. Hood lead Prince of Wales and Prinz Eugen lead Bismarck. Prince Eugen and Bismarck focused on the Hood, while the Hood targeted Prinz Eugen and Prince of Wales targeted Bismarck.
Do please take into account that Hood, although she did have a 12" belt, it was inclined at such an angle that it would have been closer to 13" in the ranges where the battle was thought to take place. I, however, am not quite familiar with the game in question so, my knowledge on whether or not that is something that can be taken into account when making ships is not known to me. Still, a very nice battle.
Uss North Carolina vs Bismarck would be a cool battle
prinz had the lead due to bismarck having trouble with her equipment
May I recommend graf spee and the battle of the river plate
Bismark vs Yamato, I wonder how that armor will do agaisnt thise.monstrous guns.
I've wargamed the Battle of the Denmark Strait scenario half a dozen times with the rules There's The Effing Scheer and while Hood always struggles, it tends to lean towards a British victory (but not certain of course). The magazine explosion was never a foregone conclusion, but I always wonder what could have happened if Prince of Wales had led the British formation, with its better armour to absorb the early hits.
The hood was, for 1920, an amazing ship. She had only slightly thinner armor than the Queen Elizabeths, and was fast and well armed. By 1940 she wasn't nearly as good, but was also one of the few ships capable of catching Bismarck and putting up a fair fight. As you said the magazine hit was just amazing luck for Bismarck.
Btw Washington treaty BBs of allied nations tended to run all or nothing armor schemes to keep it economical and keep the tonnage down to increase fleet sizes
Can you do roma vs bismarck please i think that would be a great battle
hiii its possible that can you make a Video like that with the HMS Warspite and HMS Ramillies VS Scharnhorst or IJN Yamato VS Bismarck `?
One encounter that could have happened is the USS Iowa vs the KMS Tirpitz. As a matter of fact for a few months after her commissioning I believe, the Iowa patrolled the Atlantic to hunt down the Tirpitz adminst rumors that the German battleship was operating in the Atlantic at the time. However the two ships never met. But the Tirpitz was lucky not to have encountered the Iowa as the American battleship would have made quick work of the German ship. The Bismarck class was considerably inferior to the Iowa class. In fact the Tirpitz would have faced a faster and more opponent they'd never would have seriously damage or escape from. At best the Iowa would be guaranteed to achieve a mission kill against the German ship at which point the captain of Tirpitz would scuttle his ship.
3x Des Moines vs 3x CA Ibuki (I know she was unfinished and partially converted to a CVL, but if she had been completed to spec). I am curious about torpedo focused cruiser vs Gun cruiser. I don't know if it'll be interesting though, AI is pretty bad with torps.
Another good one I wanna throw out there is Dunkerque vs Graff Spee since the DK class of ships was intended to be direct competition for the GS
Pretty sure the Dunk was to counter the Scharnhorsts, not the GS
@@TukikoTroy no I read the French expected to encounter Graff Spee and DK and her sister ship were built specifically to counter the Deutschland class “ pocket battleships”. DK had a main belt of 9 inches backed up by an inch of timber so she didn’t exceed Washington treaty limits. She only had 13.5 inch guns, and by the time Scharnhorst hit the scene the French had already surrendered. I’m sure Stealth gaming here, or drachfineal will confirm my statement. Scharnhorst and her sister ( I’ll butcher the name so I’m not writing it) were built as primarily commerce raiding battlecruisers. With 9 11 inch guns they were actually under armed and the plan was always to upgun them with Bismarck style turrets packing 15 inch guns. Graff Spee was built during the Washington treaty unlike S and G. GS was built specifically as a commerce raider and was out of her weight class if she engaged anything but a light cruiser cause she really was a glass cannon, or she could dole out the beatings but not take one. DK was designed specifically to corner GS and do just that
Of course the KGV were "all or nothing". Bismarck, instead, was not exactly so.
I would like to see USS North Carolina and USS Iowa. The first and the last fast battleships.
Could you do uss Texas vs hms dreadnought
Hi stealth, when is the video about moding the campaign year will go out?
I'll do that today. Sorry, forgot about it
@@Stealth17Gaming no worry's my friend, take your time, thx
how do you do the cinematic mode thing you always do i cant figure it out
Why did you give Prince of Wales armoured citadel it used an all or nothing scheme. British armour plating was also among the best socshoul be krupp in although I'm not completely sure on this one. It's a crime how you gave bismarck better armour quality than POW. Please could you redo this?
The series overall is great btw
Yeah the KGV's when designed sacrificed additional firepower for there protection, initially being designed with 3 quad 14" guns. The confusion probably comes from the KGV's having an external belt compared to there contemporaries with their internal armor schemes. But the armor scheme was all or nothing like most all fast battleships bar the Germans
The armor of the Prince here was not the issue. It just barely did anything at all. She wasn't seriously damaged either. I have way too many scenarios to go through to re-do these battles.
I wouldn't expect you to redo it. This series is great and your UAD content is my favorite on the channel. I at least am not expecting perfection, you're not a naval historian and having daily videos far outweighs any little lapse in accuracy. Keep up the great work love the channel.
I'm pretty sure that POW also had a double layer bottom, not 100% sure though.
Id like to see Force Z vs Yamato
What about tirpitz vs massachusetts
USS Arizona vs HMS Royal Oak
Bismarck vs yomoto
Well yeah 1937 hood armour was remove to increase speed
What nonsense is this? Your claim is untrue. The 1937 refit removed the underwater torpedo tubes for deck mounted tubes and was done at Malta over two months.
Nice!