Naw, from my personal experience, Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult. For months before I was disfellowshipped, I had started to lose my faith a lot, when I was going through a really tough time. While all that was happening, I started to feel like I was going insane, that I had started to betray Jehovah, and that made my depression worse. So, I turned to drugs to ease the pain, and started to have sex and etc. I was caught, disfellowshipped, and lost nearly everything. I never talked to my parents again, and was homeless for two years. Awful man, just awful. No one should have to go through that
Hi @Telltale Former catholic here. I have zero love for the vatican, but I think there is something that you got wrong about the "confession" topic. It is paramount to the catholic church that nothing leaves confession. Priests absolutely CANNOT repeat what is said in confession. There's even legal protection for it. You could confess to a murder & the pastor couldn't even be subpoenaed to testify So, while confession is a key feature, it's not quite the same as the public shaming of other religions
My Mum still holds the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses (despite not being an active member or service-goer for around 15 years) and is, at the moment, genuinely scared that Aarmageddon is coming within her lifetime. Scared, because neither me nor my two other brothers hold any religious beliefs, (used to be a JW as a kid) and there may actually be another great flood event where only the chosen are saved, and time is running out for non-followers to surrender themselves to God. And she still fails to see how that would make God an evil cunt. So in her eyes, there is genuinely a chance that she may have to spend 1000 years toiling to rebuild the world and turn it into paradise, with her three sons never making it. So much for a religion - sorry, a CULT - providing people with hope and wellbeing.
Liberalist Sperg Maybe not a literal flood then but an event of similar magnitude and effect, wiping the world clean of non-believers. Apparently tons of the UK congregations are moving out of cities and into countryside areas for whatever reason. I dunno, I guess God will destroy the cities but not the fields?
Raised Roman Catholic, my family’s church is pretty cult-like. I should see how it compares to this new model. I wasn’t shunned by my family for coming out as atheist but some of the more extreme members are genuinely convinced I’m gonna burn in Hell forever (though my being trans contributes to that)
Interesting. Was that in the U.S.? I was raised Catholic as well (in the U.S.), but I find a *lot* of what Telltale says about the Catholic Church excessive, and not in line with what I experienced. I found it pretty laid back in general, with the idea that the clergy takes care of the religious stuff and we just needed to tithe and show up from time to time. We went every goddamn week because my father was really into it, but I was able to drop out without too much negative consequence, and nobody shuns me. Much of the rest of the family has since given up on it. On that whole confession bit, I *never* went to confession. Not once. I went through baptism (infant), First Communion (too young to object), and even Confirmation, which I probably should have avoided, but never did confession. I even knew the stations of the cross, and was briefly an altar boy. But none of it really seemed serious to me. I actually enjoyed Midnight Mass at the church where I grew up. It was a beautiful building, and that mass, with all the choir, incense, etc. seemed to be really appropriate to it. I can just imagine what it would be like with the appropriate chemical mood adjustment. Hmm...maybe I should try that one year. :)
Bruce S Yep, US (NJ). Granted my family is Peruvian (synonymous with deeply religious) and were good friends with the priest and every one of us was part of the choir, in fact it was almost entirely us at one point. Oh also we all had to go to Sunday school for confession and communion, though I never did either as I kept flunking out for not doing the work and constantly asking questions. It was basically just an hour or so after mass where we had to memorize prayers, get told we’d burn in Hell if we didn’t do as we were told and love Jesus and were taught biblical stories as fact
Briana Pierce no, I don't really use Reddit. But I want to get true side of this cult revealed so more people don't fall victim to it. That's why I love this channel so much
Yes Mormonism is a cult, but its definitely not as bad as jehovahs witness. Ive had many friends who are LDS and they respect me as a Baptist and don't try to convert me. However, all the JWs ive tried to be friends with at school, they would sooner or later try to convert me. I actually helped a guy out of the JW religion once, good kid, he had a miserable childhood and me being the light at the end of the tunnel helped him see the truth...
It might, but when Telltale goes through his list it seems still very subjective and arbitrary how he decides on the numbers for each single step... I'd would like to see a more structured approach or at least a couple of Ex JW doing the same estimate to get to more reliable "average" Values... That subjective tint HAS to go or this will never be a convincing argument for people not already Anti-JW before they heard of it!
Feno 3000, I agree that there's a lot of subjectivity to it. He gives his reasons, but it's still nowhere near objective, and I bet most of us wouldn't be able to regularly guess correctly what his score will be, even after hearing the reasons. However, ISTM that this is a necessary part of this measurement. How could anyone objectively score it? I like the idea of having a group of people, each independently scoring each item, and averaging the scores. But it's Telltale's channel, so we get his scores instead.
@@Ugly_German_Truths when I first heard him explaining this new model and how he was counting based on the fibonacci sequence, I thought he was gonna go through each point and if yes, it goes up a number. so, behavior control has 89 max points, information control has 55 max points, and thought and emotion has 34 max points each and if they reach 100 total points, they should be considered a cult.
It generally depends on how you define a cult. Some people have a VERY high bar for this. The Watch Tower Society obviously certainly says it isn't a cult. That being said, Witnesses are pretty "cult-like" in my opinion. Witnesses are expected to obey their local elders and will be looked down upon, or seen as "bad associates," if they don't. Note that Witnesses are encouraged to shun those they deem to be bad associates. And they are certainly expected to obey the governing body of the Watchtower Society no matter the cost. This is made very clear in their literature (dare I say irrefutably so) which has begun emphasizing this point more and more over the last decade. When I was a Witness, they used to put a lot of emphasis on the idea that disobedience to the Society or its appointed leaders (the local elders) was showing disrespect for Jehovah's decisions and arrangements. Jehovah appointed these men because he wanted you to obey them, did he not? In this way, disobedience to them was essentially likened to disobedience to God himself. Not so long ago, the major theme of one of their conventions was literally about obedience to Jehovah and (drum roll please ...) his organization. A recent magazine article told Witnesses that they should obey the Society even if its commands seem strange or even counter to their own best interests. Witnesses are often told to "wait on Jehovah" if they have doubts and "do not rely upon your own understanding." For me, that's enough to consider them to be a cult all by itself. But it doesn't end there. Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that other religions are not only false, but demonically inspired to varying degrees. Interfaith efforts are discouraged or forbidden and celebration of religious/national holidays is seen as sacrilegious. So basically anything designed to bring people together outside of their religion is forbidden. They are taught that "the world"-meaning the world outside of Jehovah's Witnesses and their culture-is controlled by Satan and his demons. When I was a Witness, many in my local congregation still feared that the world governments would turn on them at any moment and even imprison them. The local elders told me they remembered a time when the Society forbade them from keeping records on computers because it was thought the governments would use this information to track them all down with greater ease. So they resisted transferring their congregation records to computer until the Society officially changed its policy and told them to start keep digital records. This was back in the 90s. Now almost everything they do is on computer. Non-Witnesses (known as "worldly people" or more recently as "nonbelievers") are generally treated with a certain level of suspicion and kept at arms length. Worldly people are labeled bad associates that Satan could use to corrupt a faithful Jehovah's Witness. So they are strongly discouraged from having "worldly" friends. Witnesses are commonly told to "be no part of the world" and are often more insulated from the real world around them than they realize. Witnesses are taught that Armageddon could happen at any moment and that they should never let their guard down. So there is a considerable amount of fear mongering going on. They have 5 weekly meetings (3 times a week) and look down upon those who miss these meetings with any regularity. This is to reinforce the Society’s teachings and to allow repetition to do its work. It also keeps them too busy to stray far from the organization. But don’t believe me. The Society has said this was the reason more than once in its publications. Witnesses can be disfellowshipped for many wrongdoings. Disfellowshipping means you are both excommunicated (and therefore subject to death at Armageddon since only good JWs will survive it) and shunned. Your own mother isn't supposed to talk to you if you're disfellowshipped. Speak to her and you’ll be ignored as if you don’t exist. If she doesn’t play by the rules, she’ll be disfellowshipped too. This is a devastating punishment that many people can't fully appreciate until they've experienced it. Disfellowshipping is, to put it simply, emotional blackmail. Many who lose faith in "the truth" can't leave because their families will cut them off. So it’s hard to know how many Witnesses really want to be a part of the Watchtower Society and how many are basically forced to play their part. The list of things a Witness can be disfellowshiped for is actually pretty diverse. It includes things like infidelity, loss of faith in the Society, Jehovah, or the governing body. But it also includes things like smoking, accepting a blood transfusion, celebrating Christmas, or voting. Simply walking into a church or other house or worship (Jehovah’s Witnesses call their places of worship Kingdom Halls) has also been a disfellowshipping offense, but they’ve flip flopped on that one so many times I don’t know what the current situation is. Disfellowshipping is decided by a Judicial Committee, usually a group of three elders (who are always men as women are not allowed to wield positions of power) who will meet with the accused in private. The accused has no defender, no one who’s knowledgeable in the rules and procedures of disfellowshipping, and if it’s a matter of sexual impropriety (which includes making out and not even actual sex), then young women must tell the committee of old guys about the lewd details of their horrible crime. And yes, they are required to give a very detailed explanation of what happened. They also have a pedophile problem similar to the Catholic Church and a history of covering it up. That doesn’t make them a cult per se, but it doesn’t speak well of how the organization values human beings either. Don’t believe me? Feel free to watch a series of publicly broadcast hearings into this very matter on TH-cam. The country of Australia aired their hearings into the matter on national TV. Yes, it was that bad. Someone recorded all of them and uploaded them so anyone can watch. The U.K. has also been investigating the Society for years and there are organizations that specifically help abuse victims-specifically for Jehovah’s Witnesses-in the United States and France. I presume these aren’t the only countries where someone feels there’s a need, but you get the idea. In conclusion, yes, I would say it's a cult.
I'm still in. It is because I am afraid of losing everything. My wife, my parents, my sister and brothers, and all my JW friends. If I can only find a way to show them how bad the problems are. Then I can put my family back together. 😢
@@alans.wendelschafer6588 honestly I'm planning on leaving the minute I move out. I'm scarred to actually leave right now because i can't afford to live on my own. But the longer I act like I am a part, the easier it is to say that I believe it.
I'm a Jehovah's Witness, and a second generation. I was trained by my grandma to be very critical and to becareful of all information, ever since I have been ten, I questioned every single teaching in the congregation. And I'm at a very fine line at revealing this to my teacher in the congregation, but I'm trying to gather a better understanding since I am just in my young teens. Can you help me with some credible sources?
Chimmy Chonga question everything and analyze how they respond. They’ll probably point to the Bible or their own literature as resources. They might be stumped for an answer. But the biggest thing that helped me leave is realizing that everything they taught me was and is a lie. It’s all the same information filtered down as a means to control people. And no matter how hard I tried to be a good witness, it was never enough. That’s not how a “loving” family should make you feel. That’s manipulation and mental abuse. I realize this is from a year ago, but I hope you’re okay and doing well for yourself.
You should do this with the Baha'i Faith. The "pioneers" (missionaries) are constantly moved from place to place. Aso for information restriction, in 1988, they published a book called "The Black Pearl" in which the religion's founder talks about how he hated black people despite Baha'i being a unitarian faith.
3:21 Paganism doesn't regulate how you have sex either before or after marriage. Certain denominations might but as a whole, they don't. The people I talk to normally within the religion also have never experienced repressive symptoms of sex in their religions.
Your knowledge of jehovahs witnesses got me curious about whether you used to be one or not, but now it makes sense. Nice to see a fellow ex-jw atheist who goes beyond the boundaries of his own bad exeperience and also sheds light on other cults/religions. Keep up the good work, new subscriber here.
I would like to see one on Catholicism sometime. It might be easier, though, if you split it into Roman Catholics, Byzantine catholics, and orthodox catholics. From what I know, byzantines are the most extreme, and Roman Catholicism is the most common.
You should look into soul bonding. Final Fantasy House is a good example of the cult like stuff it can bring. It’s kind of like heavens gate with the weird connections to pop culture.
I'm Roman Catholic, and we are not obligated to go to confession. Most of my family has only gone a couple times before. It is just seen as something that you can choose to do if you want to let all of your feelings go and confess to something that is eating you up inside. It is also anonymous if you want it to be, so the priest does not know who you are. I found it kinda useful because growing up I was bullied and didn't have a lot of friends, so it just helps to get out some steam, but we are in no way obligated.
I grew up Catholic and from my experience I wouldn't consider them a cult, but I am looking forward to see where you put them on the scale and I'm wondering if you will be working with anyone on your discord or facebook who has experience with other religions to help develop it better. I've noticed you are sometimes harder on religions you are less familiar with even if they are functional similar to another one, like Catholic and Methodists. I'm not offended by this, I just think the community you build can come together and teach each other more about these religions, and snuff out the seriously dangerous ones.
Angela Delsanter ..I have associated with both Catholics and JW's .I went to a Catholic school from the ages of 4 to 16 And have attended many services. I studied with the JW's for a year and a half and attended many meetings.Never got the cult vibe from Catholics at all.Got serious cult vibes from the JW's.When you try to apply the BITE model to Catholics ,you can rarely apply it all,but when done to JW's,Scientology etc 90% of the criteria in BITE model fits well with the characteristics of these groups That is because unlike the Roman Catholic religion JW's ,Scientology are high control groups.I am yet to come upon a respected cult expert that views Roman Catholics as a destructive cult.Not even the cult expert who came up with the BITE model ,Steve Hassan puts Catholics in that category.But almost all cult experts view JW's as a destructive cult.
marmackk are you my twin? That is almost exactly my life. Grew up Catholic, started dating a guy who was studying to be a Witness and got roped in myself for about 2 years. Fortunately they didn't actually want me for their cult. At the time it hurt to be broken up with and told I had a "laundry list of problems that one man couldn't be expected to deal with" buuuuuut I was a little too free spirited for thier religion to really fit in. Wanting things like responsibility, and doing something as outrageous as treating LGBT people like people who deserve love and respect.
The Catholic Church is far from the worst Christian denomination, I think calling the religion a cult may be justifiable but the truth is most of the followers are nothing like cultists. Still, child abuse, heavy involvement in politics/social policy all around the world, opposition to birth control at a detriment to the third world, they’re certainly not the best denomination
theMOCmaster I think you're right to say they are a cult or at least cult-like at the level of priesthood and going up from there. Those old traditions do hold back the church from progressing in a lot of necessary ways. But unlike JWs, when the child abuse stuff came out it was actually dealt with. Also while a priest cannot be compelled to testify against a criminal, at least in the US, they do have every right to report the horrible crimes they hear about in confession, which is leagues better than what we are getting from other more serious cults. Plus I'm not going to lie, I think the current Pope is an amazing leader and really wants to bring something good to the world in the only way he knows how. Maybe I'm being a too soft, but I'm not really part if the church anymore, and from the outside looking in I'm happy to see that the people who stuck with it are using their faith to make something better, that is supposed to be the whole anyway.
"But unlike JWs, when the child abuse stuff came out it was actually dealt with." Bullshit. Unless by "dealt with" you mean hidden and ignored until it was impossible not to do so.
Real talk; the only reason I tolerate the Witnesses coming to my door is because it's a little old lady in her 70s who talks about gardening with me. I haven't had the heart to tell her I'm hip to the craziness of her little cult, but it makes me chuckle every time she talks about "concerns for the future." I'm not terribly worried, ma'am. Don't much care about an afterlife either. I figure when you're gone, you're gone. What's so scary about nothing?
I just stumbled on this channel, and have spent the last few days watching some of these videos. I have a teenage grandkid I'm steering towards this channel. Good critical thinking skills are used. A person must always look behind the curtain.
Telltale, that was interesting and I think it's admirable that you are trying to be as objective as possible. Despite your personal hurt and anger. And, yeah, collab betwixt faves!! Thankyou and Prof. Stick!! Love and Peace
I'm a current JW. I had been doing non religious specific searches on google about the BITE model. Now, I am terrified. Not sure what to do or where to go.
Could you review Mormonism next, please, that would be awesome. Also, the anatomy on your drawings are so good especially the people; keep up the great work.
I think it’s good to standardize these features into scores but I don’t know about comparing them to the most extreme history of that feature Because that can be changed with new cults that have the worst case of these features that none of us could have thought of and then the entire leveling of all these cults would change right? Idk if it’s the best way to show the extent of these cults although I admit I can’t think of a better scaling technique myself Regardless I hope these standardized scores can express to people the effect these cults have on people Thanks for the video! Big fan and hope this scoring system works well! And hope your and your family are doing well!
So my friend's daughter was off school one Thursday a while ago. Someone knocked at the door and she thought it was her grandma bringing soup and medicine but, instead, it was this kindly old woman. Of course, being the polite person this girl was, as well as fearing it would be rude if she did not, she stuck around on the doorstep to listen to what she had to say, assuming she was just a new neighbour as that was what she had introduced herself as. The old woman then asked her why she was home at that time of day and if anyone else was in. She said she was off ill from high school (which here in England means she's at most 16 but she was, in fact, 14) and that she was home alone. The girl apparently saw nothing wrong with these questions, telling me that it had happened a lot beforehand with other people. The woman then pulled out a book and asked the child where she would look for help for her future, a strange question to just spring on someone. But the girl knew what this was about at this point and figured the only way to get her to leave other than slam the door in her face was to lie her way through the situation. She told the woman that her grandma went to church a lot, not saying anything about herself. The woman was apparently pleased with this and opened the Bible in her hand, flipping to a couple of verses and asking this 14 year old what she thought they meant. Being smart, she answered the questions simply, leaving no room for continuation of conversation until the woman decided to leave. She said she would visit again soon, which panicked the child, and then asked if she'd be home around the same time on Thursdays, to which she replied that she would be at school. This ended the interaction and she left. Now, a couple of months later, the girl was off ill on a Thursday and heard a knock. Funnily enough, before the woman reached the door, the young girl recognised the skirt she was wearing and hid between the door and the window. The woman waited there for 20 minutes before posting through a leaflet with a personalised note saying she must have missed her and that she'd visit again soon. It also suggested that she should look at the website and watch a couple of the kid's videos. The girl recognised the website as the same one where the anti-gay JW cartoon was and ripped the paper up immediately. What I find immensely disturbing is that no notes had been posted in those couple of months between visits, the woman seemed to know that my friend's daughter was at home, though no obvious signs were apparently visible from outside. I'm just glad the girl was smart, though not so glad she wasn't assertive enough to tell her elder to leave in the first place. This was a clear attempt at the indoctrination of a child into what resembles a cult. It's disgusting.
I can say yes they are a cult. I was raised in this belief since I was three years old. I lost my connection with the Jehovah's witnesses after years of learning about history and other religious organizations. I chose to become pagan and I have had a better life because of it. I know this is an atheist channel but I really do enjoy your videos please keep making them.
My family is predominantly Catholic and Episcopalian (on my dad's side). After my graduation, we went on a family trip. In front of every single meal, we had to pray. I'm not Christian--I'm likely Wiccan--so I was very uncomfortable. I didn't put my hands together, but I did bow my head and wait for the prayers to be done. My aunt's _2 year old_ knew how to lead herself in prayer. It took everything in me not to say anything about it the entire week.
I think you were very modest with you points given. This is good as you did your best to be objective. The difficult thing about this is I was a Methodist, young earth creationist, fundamentalist. My church was an extremist cult un typical of even Methodist. Each church or sect is different in its microculture. I commend you attempt here as it is very difficult to "can" religion.
I was raised a Catholic and quit going after getting away from parental control. It annoyed me so I quit. Thought it was kinda bad till I found out about JW, now that is beyond annoying. Their own writings say it is not a cult because they don't have one leader that they follow, but I find it interesting that they switched from one leader to a "governing body" after their fourth leader.
He's mentioned it before and he doesn't see judaism as a cult but instead a genuine religion but he believes there ARE cults (probably some of the smaller hasidic communities) INSIDE judaism, but judaism as a whole isnt a cult. He mentioned it in his "religions that are not cults" video
21 for forbidding to speak to ex-members... yet you recently joined lloyd evans in a great but frightening debate with an active JW on the non-sequitur show. i know, it took them months to find a JW willing to talk to demons, but do you know if he was punished? if not, what do you expect will they do to him?
Hello, congrats on 50k subs. Thanks for putting your podcast on soundcloud, I'll be listening to it but if you have time could you try to get it up on spotify as well? Thanks.
Another brill video. I am in the UK and would be interested in how the same religion would fare in different parts of the world. I was a catholic by watching youtube it looks like UK and US catholics were a different religion.
I just love your assessment of things, and wow I am still trying to get that Jdub lingo and mindset out of my skull. It's been 12 years since I left, and I still have that crap inside. Guess that's what happens when you're born in!
It would be interesting if you ran the extremism scale against a purely secular organization like a civics organization (such as Rotary International or the Boy Scouts) or a political party and see how it stacks up. Some of the categories you listed are present in a lot of organization to at least a nominal degree, so it would be interesting to establish a secular benchmark.
Again, saw this in my notifications and thought, "this isn't even a question". I don't know if every JW relationship dynamic is like this, but my sister's-in-law sister (... I'll just call her my sister-in-law) grew up JW. BUT, she married a man who was JW, but more extreme than her family was. She's still married to him, and the relationship is so abusive and toxic that it makes me sick. Her husband controls EVERY aspect of her life- where she goes, who she talks to (she friended my sister on FB but her husband goes through her social media every so often and deletes people he doesn't like, including my sister), when she does things, and even what she eats. I've only seen her once recently, and this woman is so skinny that she looks like she's starving herself. Like I said, I'm not sure if every JW acts like this, but from what I've heard, it's pretty bad overall. (haha tfw your fanart is featured but it wasn't finished-- should a made that more clear to telltale, or just... not have sent it. 😂 thanks for putting it in though!)
You know, seeing this, it would be interesting to do this kind of scale with other religions, but with the opinions of other people in discussion or even a poll to score it. For example, who better to give feedback in order to score Mormonism than an ex Mormon? It would be interesting.
Have you guys considered the chance of the largest mass suicide in history if this religion were to be publicly proven wrong to all the 8 million members that devote their lives to this? Just say if somehow, all 8 million of them opened their eyes.. imagine the impact it would have on those innocent sheep
Could you speak about Opus Dei? I think they fit perfectly into your definition of cult, and in my country (Spain) they have a frightening amount of economic and political power, yet most people don't even think of them as a cult
I am not sure if using the Fibonacci numbers is a good idea. it leaves you lacking in flexibility in the Higher Levels of Radicality(?). With a Linear rise in Radicality, you get an exponential Rise in Points 'awarded'. Maybe that was intentional. Love your Videos by the way.
Great video and I like how the scores go. But as you go on you might have to revise many of them mostly because of the "I've seen worse, therefore lower score." You probably thought about it a lot but still feels young because something being worse doesn't mean it can't get a 13 or 21. Might want to either come up with some ideas of a max and min for score ranges.
Dood, I would appreciate it if you were to do an analysis of the Apostolic-Pentecostal church. My biological father has seriously screwed up my half sibling so badly due to this church and their mandate on the whole tithing thing and being separate from the world. My half sister went without glasses for a good 2 years due to not only the tithing but offerings, biological father refusing to work on Sundays or refusing to work a full shift when they had service (which is between 2-4 times a week).
I'm no catholic, but here in the Netherlands catholics don't really practice the cult-y aspects of the religion you mentioned (except for the reaaaally religious places). many of those rules are more like guidelines for the ultra-pious
Could you do an assessment on a small group in the midwest called deco-tec. The methods deco-tec used seems quite similar to the one used in this video but less extreme. I was put through a deco-tec event that lasted for two days and it really messed me up for years.
do a video on "gloriavale christian community." they force you to wear a VERY strict dress code, especially if you are a woman, they live on a compound, and they believe in faith healing to some extent. i'm interested to see how they compare to the new scale.
This numerical rating system seems arbitrary to me. I realize that the BITE model traditionally only has room for binary "yes" or "no" answers to it's criteria, but I'm not sure why you decided to fix this by tacking on the Fibonacci Sequence. I would be very interested in a video on the topic of how you arrived at your decision to modify the BITE model in this way.
I would be extremely interested in a comparison between secular groups like Satanists and atheist fellowships. Also, a comparison between main stream religious groups and pagan groups like wicca.
I would've brought up needing a baseline if you hadn't already mentioned it. One possibility for a baseline that I haven't seen you mention would be the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I imagine they'd score pretty low. :3
My family is Catholic, and I am the only one in my family who's no longer a part of that religion. Specifically, my family are members of Opus Dei. I know I've commented this before, but please please please make a video about Opus Dei. I'm really interested in your thoughts on it, especially since I used to want to join before I realised that I'm not a fan of religion.
Born Anglican-Baptist and still Anglican Baptist. Just means that I believe in Jebus, doesn't mean I hate anyone. That's what religion should be. Love each other, and then try and be a good person
a Jehovah's witness just arrived at my door like 4 min ago before they said anything i saw the watchtower booklets and thought "here we go" so i said i was christian they said they are to and they asked me could they read a verse and i said nah my parents arent home so maybe later(i'm a teenager) so they left. i just found it funny because i just watched your videos lol
You can do a max cult value by totalling the worst stats for each criteria. Then do the figures for a religion that is borderline - where about half of sociologists consider them a cult and the other half don't. Use the figures for that one as the threshold for determining when a religion's score enters into harmful-cult territory. You can then find the difference between the max cult and the threshold and divide it into segments to create a cult scale from 1 to 10 - or however you wish - as a way of mathematically describing how severe a cult is.
I think emotion controls should be higher. They still are trying to push my mom back with my abusive step father. They shamed my sisters and me for leaving instead of my step father who should be in jail.
Hey Telltale, why do use the fibbonachi sequence for this scale? Just seems like it overcomplicates things. Or is it to increase the scores of cults who go that little but further to be messed up?
I am a former Jehovah's witness and I think this is an interesting measuring system. I think there is a difference between what a word means in the dictionary vs what some people think a word means or should mean. For me, I prefer the current dictionary definition. I don't like taking external interpretations of words. For example, there are people who actively don't believe in God but they call themselves agnostic instead of atheist. I think that is just incorrect based of the definitions of those 2 words. And some will argue that "oh when the word was first coined in 1800 whatever year it meant so and so" or something like that. Well the word gay was originally used to mean happy, anyone feeling gay today is not using that word in that way anymore lol. Word definitions change and these definitions should matter and the definitions CAN change over time. Because of course I agree with this video in terms of how terrible the behavior of the witnesses are. And people associate more negativity with the word "cult" vs the word "religion" and so anyone who hates the witnesses generally calls them a cult, meaning that they're bad. But to me the word cult doesn't mean that since its not the current definition.
I was raised as a Jehovas wittness, but never became one. So now when I meet some people that I used to meet in the kingdom hall, they all start talking to me about why I don´t study anymore. The funny thing is, the more they talk to me about it, the more they sound brainwashed. They say things cultists would say and don´t even realise that´s not a good look.
Naw, from my personal experience, Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult. For months before I was disfellowshipped, I had started to lose my faith a lot, when I was going through a really tough time. While all that was happening, I started to feel like I was going insane, that I had started to betray Jehovah, and that made my depression worse. So, I turned to drugs to ease the pain, and started to have sex and etc. I was caught, disfellowshipped, and lost nearly everything. I never talked to my parents again, and was homeless for two years. Awful man, just awful. No one should have to go through that
Elloinmornin J -I hope you’re doing better now.
Hi @Telltale
Former catholic here. I have zero love for the vatican, but I think there is something that you got wrong about the "confession" topic. It is paramount to the catholic church that nothing leaves confession. Priests absolutely CANNOT repeat what is said in confession. There's even legal protection for it. You could confess to a murder & the pastor couldn't even be subpoenaed to testify
So, while confession is a key feature, it's not quite the same as the public shaming of other religions
My Mum still holds the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses (despite not being an active member or service-goer for around 15 years) and is, at the moment, genuinely scared that Aarmageddon is coming within her lifetime. Scared, because neither me nor my two other brothers hold any religious beliefs, (used to be a JW as a kid) and there may actually be another great flood event where only the chosen are saved, and time is running out for non-followers to surrender themselves to God. And she still fails to see how that would make God an evil cunt.
So in her eyes, there is genuinely a chance that she may have to spend 1000 years toiling to rebuild the world and turn it into paradise, with her three sons never making it. So much for a religion - sorry, a CULT - providing people with hope and wellbeing.
SohJinh According to their doctrine, God already promised not to cause another flood.
SohJinh. My mom is similar. Still has beliefs but hasn't been active for over a decade. She doesn't know that I am against JW now, but knows I'm lgbt.
Liberalist Sperg Maybe not a literal flood then but an event of similar magnitude and effect, wiping the world clean of non-believers. Apparently tons of the UK congregations are moving out of cities and into countryside areas for whatever reason. I dunno, I guess God will destroy the cities but not the fields?
I suppose that Jehovah can break any promise He wants then, simply by stating that it "wasn't literal."
SohJinh interesting. The headquarters in the US moved from the city to a more “country type” location.
I can answer this now. Yes.
0:17 Holy shit that art
The SSA is gonna be lit 🔥
As usual.......
💙 *quality content* 💙
Raised Roman Catholic, my family’s church is pretty cult-like. I should see how it compares to this new model. I wasn’t shunned by my family for coming out as atheist but some of the more extreme members are genuinely convinced I’m gonna burn in Hell forever (though my being trans contributes to that)
Robyn Cleffa damn that fucking sucks
Interesting. Was that in the U.S.? I was raised Catholic as well (in the U.S.), but I find a *lot* of what Telltale says about the Catholic Church excessive, and not in line with what I experienced. I found it pretty laid back in general, with the idea that the clergy takes care of the religious stuff and we just needed to tithe and show up from time to time. We went every goddamn week because my father was really into it, but I was able to drop out without too much negative consequence, and nobody shuns me. Much of the rest of the family has since given up on it. On that whole confession bit, I *never* went to confession. Not once. I went through baptism (infant), First Communion (too young to object), and even Confirmation, which I probably should have avoided, but never did confession. I even knew the stations of the cross, and was briefly an altar boy. But none of it really seemed serious to me. I actually enjoyed Midnight Mass at the church where I grew up. It was a beautiful building, and that mass, with all the choir, incense, etc. seemed to be really appropriate to it. I can just imagine what it would be like with the appropriate chemical mood adjustment. Hmm...maybe I should try that one year. :)
Bruce S
Yep, US (NJ). Granted my family is Peruvian (synonymous with deeply religious) and were good friends with the priest and every one of us was part of the choir, in fact it was almost entirely us at one point. Oh also we all had to go to Sunday school for confession and communion, though I never did either as I kept flunking out for not doing the work and constantly asking questions. It was basically just an hour or so after mass where we had to memorize prayers, get told we’d burn in Hell if we didn’t do as we were told and love Jesus and were taught biblical stories as fact
Robyn Cleffa happy pride month!!!!
kitty cat
That’s strange, in the TH-cam notifications it excluded the word pride. Regardless, thanks! Same to you ^^
Do Mormons next! I grew up in the cult and want to see it exposed.
Boy are they being exposed lately. Are you a member of the Exmormom subreddit?
Briana Pierce no, I don't really use Reddit. But I want to get true side of this cult revealed so more people don't fall victim to it. That's why I love this channel so much
Yes Mormonism is a cult, but its definitely not as bad as jehovahs witness. Ive had many friends who are LDS and they respect me as a Baptist and don't try to convert me. However, all the JWs ive tried to be friends with at school, they would sooner or later try to convert me. I actually helped a guy out of the JW religion once, good kid, he had a miserable childhood and me being the light at the end of the tunnel helped him see the truth...
I’m loving the new model so far, I think it’ll give a more accurate final assessment.
It might, but when Telltale goes through his list it seems still very subjective and arbitrary how he decides on the numbers for each single step... I'd would like to see a more structured approach or at least a couple of Ex JW doing the same estimate to get to more reliable "average" Values... That subjective tint HAS to go or this will never be a convincing argument for people not already Anti-JW before they heard of it!
Feno 3000, I agree that there's a lot of subjectivity to it. He gives his reasons, but it's still nowhere near objective, and I bet most of us wouldn't be able to regularly guess correctly what his score will be, even after hearing the reasons. However, ISTM that this is a necessary part of this measurement. How could anyone objectively score it? I like the idea of having a group of people, each independently scoring each item, and averaging the scores. But it's Telltale's channel, so we get his scores instead.
@@Ugly_German_Truths when I first heard him explaining this new model and how he was counting based on the fibonacci sequence, I thought he was gonna go through each point and if yes, it goes up a number. so, behavior control has 89 max points, information control has 55 max points, and thought and emotion has 34 max points each and if they reach 100 total points, they should be considered a cult.
It generally depends on how you define a cult. Some people have a VERY high bar for this. The Watch Tower Society obviously certainly says it isn't a cult.
That being said, Witnesses are pretty "cult-like" in my opinion. Witnesses are expected to obey their local elders and will be looked down upon, or seen as "bad associates," if they don't. Note that Witnesses are encouraged to shun those they deem to be bad associates. And they are certainly expected to obey the governing body of the Watchtower Society no matter the cost. This is made very clear in their literature (dare I say irrefutably so) which has begun emphasizing this point more and more over the last decade.
When I was a Witness, they used to put a lot of emphasis on the idea that disobedience to the Society or its appointed leaders (the local elders) was showing disrespect for Jehovah's decisions and arrangements. Jehovah appointed these men because he wanted you to obey them, did he not? In this way, disobedience to them was essentially likened to disobedience to God himself.
Not so long ago, the major theme of one of their conventions was literally about obedience to Jehovah and (drum roll please ...) his organization. A recent magazine article told Witnesses that they should obey the Society even if its commands seem strange or even counter to their own best interests. Witnesses are often told to "wait on Jehovah" if they have doubts and "do not rely upon your own understanding." For me, that's enough to consider them to be a cult all by itself. But it doesn't end there.
Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that other religions are not only false, but demonically inspired to varying degrees. Interfaith efforts are discouraged or forbidden and celebration of religious/national holidays is seen as sacrilegious. So basically anything designed to bring people together outside of their religion is forbidden.
They are taught that "the world"-meaning the world outside of Jehovah's Witnesses and their culture-is controlled by Satan and his demons. When I was a Witness, many in my local congregation still feared that the world governments would turn on them at any moment and even imprison them. The local elders told me they remembered a time when the Society forbade them from keeping records on computers because it was thought the governments would use this information to track them all down with greater ease. So they resisted transferring their congregation records to computer until the Society officially changed its policy and told them to start keep digital records. This was back in the 90s. Now almost everything they do is on computer.
Non-Witnesses (known as "worldly people" or more recently as "nonbelievers") are generally treated with a certain level of suspicion and kept at arms length. Worldly people are labeled bad associates that Satan could use to corrupt a faithful Jehovah's Witness. So they are strongly discouraged from having "worldly" friends. Witnesses are commonly told to "be no part of the world" and are often more insulated from the real world around them than they realize.
Witnesses are taught that Armageddon could happen at any moment and that they should never let their guard down. So there is a considerable amount of fear mongering going on. They have 5 weekly meetings (3 times a week) and look down upon those who miss these meetings with any regularity. This is to reinforce the Society’s teachings and to allow repetition to do its work. It also keeps them too busy to stray far from the organization. But don’t believe me. The Society has said this was the reason more than once in its publications.
Witnesses can be disfellowshipped for many wrongdoings. Disfellowshipping means you are both excommunicated (and therefore subject to death at Armageddon since only good JWs will survive it) and shunned. Your own mother isn't supposed to talk to you if you're disfellowshipped. Speak to her and you’ll be ignored as if you don’t exist. If she doesn’t play by the rules, she’ll be disfellowshipped too.
This is a devastating punishment that many people can't fully appreciate until they've experienced it. Disfellowshipping is, to put it simply, emotional blackmail. Many who lose faith in "the truth" can't leave because their families will cut them off. So it’s hard to know how many Witnesses really want to be a part of the Watchtower Society and how many are basically forced to play their part.
The list of things a Witness can be disfellowshiped for is actually pretty diverse. It includes things like infidelity, loss of faith in the Society, Jehovah, or the governing body. But it also includes things like smoking, accepting a blood transfusion, celebrating Christmas, or voting. Simply walking into a church or other house or worship (Jehovah’s Witnesses call their places of worship Kingdom Halls) has also been a disfellowshipping offense, but they’ve flip flopped on that one so many times I don’t know what the current situation is.
Disfellowshipping is decided by a Judicial Committee, usually a group of three elders (who are always men as women are not allowed to wield positions of power) who will meet with the accused in private. The accused has no defender, no one who’s knowledgeable in the rules and procedures of disfellowshipping, and if it’s a matter of sexual impropriety (which includes making out and not even actual sex), then young women must tell the committee of old guys about the lewd details of their horrible crime. And yes, they are required to give a very detailed explanation of what happened.
They also have a pedophile problem similar to the Catholic Church and a history of covering it up. That doesn’t make them a cult per se, but it doesn’t speak well of how the organization values human beings either. Don’t believe me? Feel free to watch a series of publicly broadcast hearings into this very matter on TH-cam. The country of Australia aired their hearings into the matter on national TV. Yes, it was that bad. Someone recorded all of them and uploaded them so anyone can watch. The U.K. has also been investigating the Society for years and there are organizations that specifically help abuse victims-specifically for Jehovah’s Witnesses-in the United States and France. I presume these aren’t the only countries where someone feels there’s a need, but you get the idea.
In conclusion, yes, I would say it's a cult.
I wish I could share your comment!
I'm still in. It is because I am afraid of losing everything. My wife, my parents, my sister and brothers, and all my JW friends. If I can only find a way to show them how bad the problems are. Then I can put my family back together. 😢
@@alans.wendelschafer6588 honestly I'm planning on leaving the minute I move out. I'm scarred to actually leave right now because i can't afford to live on my own. But the longer I act like I am a part, the easier it is to say that I believe it.
I'm a Jehovah's Witness, and a second generation. I was trained by my grandma to be very critical and to becareful of all information, ever since I have been ten, I questioned every single teaching in the congregation. And I'm at a very fine line at revealing this to my teacher in the congregation, but I'm trying to gather a better understanding since I am just in my young teens. Can you help me with some credible sources?
Ima get this to the top
run ... run away before they trap you there!
Chimmy Chonga question everything and analyze how they respond. They’ll probably point to the Bible or their own literature as resources. They might be stumped for an answer. But the biggest thing that helped me leave is realizing that everything they taught me was and is a lie. It’s all the same information filtered down as a means to control people. And no matter how hard I tried to be a good witness, it was never enough. That’s not how a “loving” family should make you feel. That’s manipulation and mental abuse. I realize this is from a year ago, but I hope you’re okay and doing well for yourself.
@@WndrBrD Runned and done!
@@chimmychonga4795 congrats!
You should do this with the Baha'i Faith. The "pioneers" (missionaries) are constantly moved from place to place. Aso for information restriction, in 1988, they published a book called "The Black Pearl" in which the religion's founder talks about how he hated black people despite Baha'i being a unitarian faith.
3:21 Paganism doesn't regulate how you have sex either before or after marriage. Certain denominations might but as a whole, they don't. The people I talk to normally within the religion also have never experienced repressive symptoms of sex in their religions.
Your knowledge of jehovahs witnesses got me curious about whether you used to be one or not, but now it makes sense. Nice to see a fellow ex-jw atheist who goes beyond the boundaries of his own bad exeperience and also sheds light on other cults/religions. Keep up the good work, new subscriber here.
I would like to see one on Catholicism sometime. It might be easier, though, if you split it into Roman Catholics, Byzantine catholics, and orthodox catholics. From what I know, byzantines are the most extreme, and Roman Catholicism is the most common.
Zoe Paxhia-Poppaw I think he has.
You should look into soul bonding. Final Fantasy House is a good example of the cult like stuff it can bring. It’s kind of like heavens gate with the weird connections to pop culture.
Jaden Shelton ooo sounds fun
Jaden Shelton there's a cult based on Final Fantasy? Sign me the fuck up! Kupo!
Spider Slurper Perhaps
I'm Roman Catholic, and we are not obligated to go to confession. Most of my family has only gone a couple times before. It is just seen as something that you can choose to do if you want to let all of your feelings go and confess to something that is eating you up inside. It is also anonymous if you want it to be, so the priest does not know who you are. I found it kinda useful because growing up I was bullied and didn't have a lot of friends, so it just helps to get out some steam, but we are in no way obligated.
Interesting analysis. Well done, keep it up.
I grew up Catholic and from my experience I wouldn't consider them a cult, but I am looking forward to see where you put them on the scale and I'm wondering if you will be working with anyone on your discord or facebook who has experience with other religions to help develop it better. I've noticed you are sometimes harder on religions you are less familiar with even if they are functional similar to another one, like Catholic and Methodists. I'm not offended by this, I just think the community you build can come together and teach each other more about these religions, and snuff out the seriously dangerous ones.
Angela Delsanter ..I have associated with both Catholics and JW's .I went to a Catholic school from the ages of 4 to 16 And have attended many services. I studied with the JW's for a year and a half and attended many meetings.Never got the cult vibe from Catholics at all.Got serious cult vibes from the JW's.When you try to apply the BITE model to Catholics ,you can rarely apply it all,but when done to JW's,Scientology etc 90% of the criteria in BITE model fits well with the characteristics of these groups That is because unlike the Roman Catholic religion JW's ,Scientology are high control groups.I am yet to come upon a respected cult expert that views Roman Catholics as a destructive cult.Not even the cult expert who came up with the BITE model ,Steve Hassan puts Catholics in that category.But almost all cult experts view JW's as a destructive cult.
marmackk are you my twin? That is almost exactly my life. Grew up Catholic, started dating a guy who was studying to be a Witness and got roped in myself for about 2 years. Fortunately they didn't actually want me for their cult. At the time it hurt to be broken up with and told I had a "laundry list of problems that one man couldn't be expected to deal with" buuuuuut I was a little too free spirited for thier religion to really fit in. Wanting things like responsibility, and doing something as outrageous as treating LGBT people like people who deserve love and respect.
The Catholic Church is far from the worst Christian denomination, I think calling the religion a cult may be justifiable but the truth is most of the followers are nothing like cultists. Still, child abuse, heavy involvement in politics/social policy all around the world, opposition to birth control at a detriment to the third world, they’re certainly not the best denomination
theMOCmaster I think you're right to say they are a cult or at least cult-like at the level of priesthood and going up from there. Those old traditions do hold back the church from progressing in a lot of necessary ways. But unlike JWs, when the child abuse stuff came out it was actually dealt with. Also while a priest cannot be compelled to testify against a criminal, at least in the US, they do have every right to report the horrible crimes they hear about in confession, which is leagues better than what we are getting from other more serious cults. Plus I'm not going to lie, I think the current Pope is an amazing leader and really wants to bring something good to the world in the only way he knows how. Maybe I'm being a too soft, but I'm not really part if the church anymore, and from the outside looking in I'm happy to see that the people who stuck with it are using their faith to make something better, that is supposed to be the whole anyway.
"But unlike JWs, when the child abuse stuff came out it was actually dealt with."
Bullshit. Unless by "dealt with" you mean hidden and ignored until it was impossible not to do so.
Real talk; the only reason I tolerate the Witnesses coming to my door is because it's a little old lady in her 70s who talks about gardening with me.
I haven't had the heart to tell her I'm hip to the craziness of her little cult, but it makes me chuckle every time she talks about "concerns for the future."
I'm not terribly worried, ma'am. Don't much care about an afterlife either. I figure when you're gone, you're gone. What's so scary about nothing?
I just stumbled on this channel, and have spent the last few days watching some of these videos. I have a teenage grandkid I'm steering towards this channel. Good critical thinking skills are used. A person must always look behind the curtain.
Hey, a new telltale video! Right before I have to go to a meeting
Danny Fanta- LOL! Your avatar!🤣👍
I’m sorry u have to go to meetings .
Telltale, that was interesting and I think it's admirable that you are trying to be as objective as possible. Despite your personal hurt and anger. And, yeah, collab betwixt faves!! Thankyou and Prof. Stick!! Love and Peace
I'm a current JW. I had been doing non religious specific searches on google about the BITE model. Now, I am terrified. Not sure what to do or where to go.
It would be wrong to tell you not to worry, so I can only encourage you to escape.
I look forward to seeing more of these. This was awesome! Have fun at the Meet-up!
I love your graphics and how you present the information.
Can't wait for the stick collaboration! Also great bite scale video.
I’m new to your channel thanks to Professor Stick. Not only do you have amazing content but you are a really great artist.
Could you review Mormonism next, please, that would be awesome. Also, the anatomy on your drawings are so good especially the people; keep up the great work.
Great video telltale, love ya
I think it’s good to standardize these features into scores but I don’t know about comparing them to the most extreme history of that feature
Because that can be changed with new cults that have the worst case of these features that none of us could have thought of and then the entire leveling of all these cults would change right?
Idk if it’s the best way to show the extent of these cults although I admit I can’t think of a better scaling technique myself
Regardless I hope these standardized scores can express to people the effect these cults have on people
Thanks for the video! Big fan and hope this scoring system works well! And hope your and your family are doing well!
Hi! I saw your guest video on Professor Stick's channel. I like your stuff, and I've subscribed 😄
Can you pleaseeee do a video like this in the ortodox church?
So my friend's daughter was off school one Thursday a while ago. Someone knocked at the door and she thought it was her grandma bringing soup and medicine but, instead, it was this kindly old woman. Of course, being the polite person this girl was, as well as fearing it would be rude if she did not, she stuck around on the doorstep to listen to what she had to say, assuming she was just a new neighbour as that was what she had introduced herself as.
The old woman then asked her why she was home at that time of day and if anyone else was in. She said she was off ill from high school (which here in England means she's at most 16 but she was, in fact, 14) and that she was home alone. The girl apparently saw nothing wrong with these questions, telling me that it had happened a lot beforehand with other people.
The woman then pulled out a book and asked the child where she would look for help for her future, a strange question to just spring on someone. But the girl knew what this was about at this point and figured the only way to get her to leave other than slam the door in her face was to lie her way through the situation. She told the woman that her grandma went to church a lot, not saying anything about herself.
The woman was apparently pleased with this and opened the Bible in her hand, flipping to a couple of verses and asking this 14 year old what she thought they meant. Being smart, she answered the questions simply, leaving no room for continuation of conversation until the woman decided to leave. She said she would visit again soon, which panicked the child, and then asked if she'd be home around the same time on Thursdays, to which she replied that she would be at school. This ended the interaction and she left.
Now, a couple of months later, the girl was off ill on a Thursday and heard a knock. Funnily enough, before the woman reached the door, the young girl recognised the skirt she was wearing and hid between the door and the window. The woman waited there for 20 minutes before posting through a leaflet with a personalised note saying she must have missed her and that she'd visit again soon. It also suggested that she should look at the website and watch a couple of the kid's videos. The girl recognised the website as the same one where the anti-gay JW cartoon was and ripped the paper up immediately.
What I find immensely disturbing is that no notes had been posted in those couple of months between visits, the woman seemed to know that my friend's daughter was at home, though no obvious signs were apparently visible from outside. I'm just glad the girl was smart, though not so glad she wasn't assertive enough to tell her elder to leave in the first place. This was a clear attempt at the indoctrination of a child into what resembles a cult. It's disgusting.
It’s good to see your subscriber count go up so quickly , well done :)
I can say yes they are a cult. I was raised in this belief since I was three years old. I lost my connection with the Jehovah's witnesses after years of learning about history and other religious organizations. I chose to become pagan and I have had a better life because of it. I know this is an atheist channel but I really do enjoy your videos please keep making them.
Do Mormons please
Braden Barnes agreed
Jonestown videos?! Thank you!
I was removed as a ministerial servant and as a pioneer for moving into a rented room in a large condo. I was living to close to worldly people
My family is predominantly Catholic and Episcopalian (on my dad's side). After my graduation, we went on a family trip. In front of every single meal, we had to pray. I'm not Christian--I'm likely Wiccan--so I was very uncomfortable. I didn't put my hands together, but I did bow my head and wait for the prayers to be done. My aunt's _2 year old_ knew how to lead herself in prayer. It took everything in me not to say anything about it the entire week.
When will there be a video about Islam?
Just wondering. how are you doing, bro?
(Also you're the best artist I know soooo.....)
I think you were very modest with you points given. This is good as you did your best to be objective. The difficult thing about this is I was a Methodist, young earth creationist, fundamentalist. My church was an extremist cult un typical of even Methodist. Each church or sect is different in its microculture. I commend you attempt here as it is very difficult to "can" religion.
This was the coolest thing I've listened to about cults, thanks man!
I was raised a Catholic and quit going after getting away from parental control. It annoyed me so I quit. Thought it was kinda bad till I found out about JW, now that is beyond annoying. Their own writings say it is not a cult because they don't have one leader that they follow, but I find it interesting that they switched from one leader to a "governing body" after their fourth leader.
Yay! Professor Stick and Telltale!
Could you do Judaism That’s my personal Faith i’m just curious and how you write it
TrueNoob same
He's mentioned it before and he doesn't see judaism as a cult but instead a genuine religion but he believes there ARE cults (probably some of the smaller hasidic communities) INSIDE judaism, but judaism as a whole isnt a cult. He mentioned it in his "religions that are not cults" video
Happy Pride telltale!
21 for forbidding to speak to ex-members... yet you recently joined lloyd evans in a great but frightening debate with an active JW on the non-sequitur show.
i know, it took them months to find a JW willing to talk to demons, but do you know if he was punished? if not, what do you expect will they do to him?
It's my birthday. Thanks for this gift
3:38 Long hair :-)
Excellent video - I think your research justifies a "Cultometer" book at some point!
Hello, congrats on 50k subs.
Thanks for putting your podcast on soundcloud, I'll be listening to it but if you have time could you try to get it up on spotify as well? Thanks.
Another brill video. I am in the UK and would be interested in how the same religion would fare in different parts of the world. I was a catholic by watching youtube it looks like UK and US catholics were a different religion.
Please release catholicism with your new method. The new method seems to be much better than the old one.
I just love your assessment of things, and wow I am still trying to get that Jdub lingo and mindset out of my skull. It's been 12 years since I left, and I still have that crap inside. Guess that's what happens when you're born in!
OMG MY FANART MADE IT IN!!!! 💚💚💚💚💚 LITTLESTTAURUS FOR THE WIN!!!!!!
Bullshit Corner I swear I read "my FART"
It would be interesting if you ran the extremism scale against a purely secular organization like a civics organization (such as Rotary International or the Boy Scouts) or a political party and see how it stacks up. Some of the categories you listed are present in a lot of organization to at least a nominal degree, so it would be interesting to establish a secular benchmark.
Again, saw this in my notifications and thought, "this isn't even a question".
I don't know if every JW relationship dynamic is like this, but my sister's-in-law sister (... I'll just call her my sister-in-law) grew up JW. BUT, she married a man who was JW, but more extreme than her family was. She's still married to him, and the relationship is so abusive and toxic that it makes me sick. Her husband controls EVERY aspect of her life- where she goes, who she talks to (she friended my sister on FB but her husband goes through her social media every so often and deletes people he doesn't like, including my sister), when she does things, and even what she eats. I've only seen her once recently, and this woman is so skinny that she looks like she's starving herself. Like I said, I'm not sure if every JW acts like this, but from what I've heard, it's pretty bad overall.
(haha tfw your fanart is featured but it wasn't finished-- should a made that more clear to telltale, or just... not have sent it. 😂 thanks for putting it in though!)
You know, seeing this, it would be interesting to do this kind of scale with other religions, but with the opinions of other people in discussion or even a poll to score it. For example, who better to give feedback in order to score Mormonism than an ex Mormon? It would be interesting.
Have you guys considered the chance of the largest mass suicide in history if this religion were to be publicly proven wrong to all the 8 million members that devote their lives to this? Just say if somehow, all 8 million of them opened their eyes.. imagine the impact it would have on those innocent sheep
Great video!!! Do the catholic church next, please.
Could you speak about Opus Dei? I think they fit perfectly into your definition of cult, and in my country (Spain) they have a frightening amount of economic and political power, yet most people don't even think of them as a cult
oh wow, its been so long since we thought that "got some new fanart for you guys" was a slogan by telltale
I am not sure if using the Fibonacci numbers is a good idea. it leaves you lacking in flexibility in the Higher Levels of Radicality(?). With a Linear rise in Radicality, you get an exponential Rise in Points 'awarded'.
Maybe that was intentional. Love your Videos by the way.
I enjoy the idea of this model
Great video and I like how the scores go. But as you go on you might have to revise many of them mostly because of the "I've seen worse, therefore lower score." You probably thought about it a lot but still feels young because something being worse doesn't mean it can't get a 13 or 21. Might want to either come up with some ideas of a max and min for score ranges.
Cool video man. Could you please do a conclusion at the end next time.
Dood, I would appreciate it if you were to do an analysis of the Apostolic-Pentecostal church. My biological father has seriously screwed up my half sibling so badly due to this church and their mandate on the whole tithing thing and being separate from the world. My half sister went without glasses for a good 2 years due to not only the tithing but offerings, biological father refusing to work on Sundays or refusing to work a full shift when they had service (which is between 2-4 times a week).
I'm no catholic, but here in the Netherlands catholics don't really practice the cult-y aspects of the religion you mentioned (except for the reaaaally religious places). many of those rules are more like guidelines for the ultra-pious
Could you do an assessment on a small group in the midwest called deco-tec. The methods deco-tec used seems quite similar to the one used in this video but less extreme. I was put through a deco-tec event that lasted for two days and it really messed me up for years.
damn phantom (fan art artist), well done!!
What score would you give to the German Nazi party using that scale?
do a video on "gloriavale christian community." they force you to wear a VERY strict dress code, especially if you are a woman, they live on a compound, and they believe in faith healing to some extent. i'm interested to see how they compare to the new scale.
This numerical rating system seems arbitrary to me. I realize that the BITE model traditionally only has room for binary "yes" or "no" answers to it's criteria, but I'm not sure why you decided to fix this by tacking on the Fibonacci Sequence.
I would be very interested in a video on the topic of how you arrived at your decision to modify the BITE model in this way.
I would be extremely interested in a comparison between secular groups like Satanists and atheist fellowships.
Also, a comparison between main stream religious groups and pagan groups like wicca.
I would've brought up needing a baseline if you hadn't already mentioned it. One possibility for a baseline that I haven't seen you mention would be the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I imagine they'd score pretty low. :3
Love that you. Are making a scale. One day your name will be up there with Richter.
I know I'm a bit late, but congrats on 50K!
It’d be interesting to see this applied to some non-religions. Cubs fans, Juggalos, Boy Scouts, Renn Faire performers.
My family is Catholic, and I am the only one in my family who's no longer a part of that religion. Specifically, my family are members of Opus Dei. I know I've commented this before, but please please please make a video about Opus Dei. I'm really interested in your thoughts on it, especially since I used to want to join before I realised that I'm not a fan of religion.
Born Anglican-Baptist and still Anglican Baptist. Just means that I believe in Jebus, doesn't mean I hate anyone. That's what religion should be. Love each other, and then try and be a good person
a Jehovah's witness just arrived at my door like 4 min ago before they said anything i saw the watchtower booklets and thought "here we go" so i said i was christian they said they are to and they asked me could they read a verse and i said nah my parents arent home so maybe later(i'm a teenager) so they left. i just found it funny because i just watched your videos lol
You can do a max cult value by totalling the worst stats for each criteria. Then do the figures for a religion that is borderline - where about half of sociologists consider them a cult and the other half don't. Use the figures for that one as the threshold for determining when a religion's score enters into harmful-cult territory. You can then find the difference between the max cult and the threshold and divide it into segments to create a cult scale from 1 to 10 - or however you wish - as a way of mathematically describing how severe a cult is.
I think emotion controls should be higher. They still are trying to push my mom back with my abusive step father. They shamed
my sisters and me for leaving instead of my step father who should be in jail.
This is a really cool scale. I like how it’s not linear growth.
You should do church of christ and icoc. I grew up in the regular church and cant go into a church auditorium without panicking now
id like to hear your assessment of orthodox jews (like, for example, those who attend Chabad temples) vs. reform jews.
That mention of the DPRK made me think- Scientology aside, do you have plans to go over supposedly non-religious cults?
0:00 Got some new fanart? When the hell don't you have new fanart?
0:01 In case "Boden" reads that: did you know Boden means Floor in german? And if so, why is that your name?
Would auditing in scientology be more extreme than confession in regards to reporting your thoughts and feelings?
im kind of new but what do you look like? are the drawing right? might sound creepy but i have this idea in my head...ANYWAY...love the content
Hey Telltale, why do use the fibbonachi sequence for this scale? Just seems like it overcomplicates things. Or is it to increase the scores of cults who go that little but further to be messed up?
I am a former Jehovah's witness and I think this is an interesting measuring system. I think there is a difference between what a word means in the dictionary vs what some people think a word means or should mean.
For me, I prefer the current dictionary definition. I don't like taking external interpretations of words. For example, there are people who actively don't believe in God but they call themselves agnostic instead of atheist. I think that is just incorrect based of the definitions of those 2 words. And some will argue that "oh when the word was first coined in 1800 whatever year it meant so and so" or something like that. Well the word gay was originally used to mean happy, anyone feeling gay today is not using that word in that way anymore lol. Word definitions change and these definitions should matter and the definitions CAN change over time.
Because of course I agree with this video in terms of how terrible the behavior of the witnesses are. And people associate more negativity with the word "cult" vs the word "religion" and so anyone who hates the witnesses generally calls them a cult, meaning that they're bad. But to me the word cult doesn't mean that since its not the current definition.
Catholics don't actually have to go to confession. You aren't shamed for not going either, same for chanting and singing.
Honestly, I'd go from using the Fibonacci numbers to doing powers of ten. Its a lot more intuitive that way.
You should do mormons...
I was raised as a Jehovas wittness, but never became one. So now when I meet some people that I used to meet in the kingdom hall, they all start talking to me about why I don´t study anymore. The funny thing is, the more they talk to me about it, the more they sound brainwashed. They say things cultists would say and don´t even realise that´s not a good look.
Can you do a video on the icoc/coc like this one or just a video on icoc/coc please