My original video had unflattering pictures of Craig, so I re-edited this version to have better pictures of Craig. I am sorry Craig. Please leave a like and a comment even if you have already watched the video!
Your arguments are top tier God bless you for all you do I actually left Orthodoxy because of not being able to reconcile East and West fathers obviously they aren’t contradicting each other
Pure class dwong....God bless you and your loved ones. Thank you for your videos. They are excellent and very helpful in coming to know my reversion to the Catholic Faith was the right decision.
@@Ty9001while dwong tries to reconcile east and west, apparently critiquing myself makes strange bedfellows as one of the articles against me actually argues that the fathers east and west were at odds (and wrongly asserts I am incorrect in stating that the West identified the temporal procession as a proof of the identity of essence being identical in the Trinity--a point explicitly made by Augustine and Hilary of Pointers, quoted in my own video). East and West are the same as my video shows. The West changed beginning in the eighth century.
Read a little. Photius disagrees with you and agrees with me (at least officially, if you actually read the whole quote). Palamas disagrees with you. Gennadius disagrees with you. Philaret of Moscow disagrees with you. I'm appealing to saints and you're appealing to an internet personality. Try a new argument and one that is not a logical fallacy (appeal to authority). The fact we resort to ad homs (i'm dishonest), appeals to authority, non sequiturs (Dwong), and no actual critique of what I said reveals that many of you are still searching for a good response and don't have one. Augustine was Orthodox.@@LiliGoof-gh4ch
I may be biased but I think it’s quite understandable, first in the biblical texts, then in the Fathers. On the contrary, nothing can be more outstretched and confusing than the Monopatrist (or “Father Alone”) Pneumatology.
I think the concept is generally pretty simple but it definitely takes some hard thought to understand at a satisfactory level, as with anything worth studying
0:00 Introduction 4:57 St. Augustine's Tractate 99 26:23 Craig or Photius the "Great" 27:04 St. Augustine's On the Trinity, Book 5 36:02 St. Augustine's On the Trinity, Book 4 44:42 St. Augustine's Against Maximinus the Arian, Book 2 49:28 St. Augustine's Psychological Analogies 56:14 St. Hilary of Poitiers On the Trinity, Book 2, 29 1:01:29 St. Hilary On the Trinity, Book 8 1:09:20 St. Hilary On the Trinity, Book 12 1:10:32 St. Athanasius Ad Serapion 1:17:55 St. Cyril 1:20:06 St. Maximus the Confessor 1:24:08 St. Ambrose 1:26:40 St. Tarasius, Nicaea 2, and Hadrian's Letter
Thank you dwong, very cool. No but in all seriousness, keep up the great work. Your videos should be the standard for all of the apologist discussions between east and west, protestant and catholic, etc. Love your videos and may God bless you.
I have to point this out, even though I’m not Catholic, I’ve suffered an unbearable amount of anxiety when it comes to the orthodox church. This content has actually brought me a lot of peace, so I just wanted to. Thank you
You’re welcome brother. A few years ago I first heard about Dyer and all these online EO apologists arguing against the Catholic faith. I saw no one adequately addressed them, so I did my own study and realized that they’re completely wrong. The Catholic Church is calling you home though :)
@@CatholicDwong I’ve still got a LONG way to go before crossing the Tiber. I’m currently LCMS and very sold on it, but building a community to address anxiety and OCD revolving around religion… learning Orthodox and Catholic positions is astoundingly helpful for helping those from traditions I don’t belong to. Pax Christi!
Welcome and God bless you brother, I just recently left Orthodoxy from a very traditional/monastic place and this caused my family and I much unnecessary anxiety. Glory to God, my wife and I were former Catholic and we left Orthodoxy and are now back home in Traditional Roman Catholicism. Don’t be afraid, pray and may God guide you.
This may be off topic, but I want to see if people can agree/relate with me. If you're a Catholic (doesn't matter if ur Latin rite or one of the Eastern rites) and you speak to a CRADLE EO, they're so much nicer, I've seen many Serbian Orthodox/Greek Orthodox cradle people call us brothers, I've engaged with many Romanian Orthodox (Cradle) people and the vast majority are really nice (and when I mean nice, I don't mean they bow down to me/Rome, or go against their faith/affirm something I affirm just because I'm there) and most of them actually want reunion, This is even common around many CRADLE EO priests. Meanwhile, converts to Orthodoxy who were protestants still seem to carry this HATRED for Catholicism as they did when they were protestant (probably bc that's what their prot church taught them) and are still so much more hostile than need be. I think this is really damaging, because it makes ALL EO look like these disrespectful and hateful people, when 98% of the ones I've met are really not. Can anyone agree? or give their take?
I can affirm this. I was a protestant because I was biased against the Roman Church. When I became disillusioned against Protestantism and began reading the Fathers I became Orthodox, and was so for twelve years til I began to question my biases against Catholicism. The main reason I stayed Orthodox was I was reading their polemics instead of weighing the arguments between West and East with an open mind. I am now converting to the Catholic Church. Pray for me that my wife and children follow me!
This is very accurate. But it's more complicated. First of all it's not only ex protestants, but also ex Catholics who now hate the Catholic Church because of post Vatican II degeneration in the Church (which of course had nothing to do with the causes of the schism). Also, regarding cradle EOs, it depends on the region. In the balkans, Catholics and EOs hate each other, but that's because there's so much nationalistic division there that religion becomes another excuse to hate each other. In the Middle East the relations are much better, and there's even inter communion and marriages in a lot of cases, mostly because in general they are all being attacked by the atheist Western powers, so often they are forced to attend each others services for lack of option. Still, Western converts are the worst by far. Personally I think there are many good things developed in Eastern Orthodox tradition that are also (or could be) Catholic patrimony, like Hesychasm, Saints like Seraphim of Sarov etc, and they preserved things like Mystical Theology and true doctrines of theosis much more than the Catholics, so I believe the goal should be reunion, and not simply converting all of them and ending their Church.
@@Kai_Stwoszthat's nice! What Catholics fail to understand though, is that the purest form of Catholicism (and of Christianity itself) is to be found in medieval (800 - 1300) Catholicism. After that the Church has been suffering and on the decline (though still forever the true Church of Christ), and Western Civilization as a whole because of it. So whenever looking for the ideal example of what Catholicism is and should be, look at that time period. And as such, obverse that, because of EOs caesaropapism, and because there they've never acknowledged the superiority of Spiritual Authority of the Church over the State, they were always hostages to the political interests of governments and as such their councils and other decisions cannot be trusted; because of that very reason also, there could never have been in the EO world immense, world changing figures coming from the ranks of the Church like there was in the West figures like Saint Bernard, Urban II, Gregory VII, Innocent III, nor could it ever conjure up such efforts as the Crusades, for in order for of this to be accomplished, there had to be an independent and transcendent authority in the Church that surpassed and bound all kingdoms and states to one unity of civilization and communion.
Yes, this is very common especially in Lebanon, infact, people not only commune at eachothers churches (mostly Greek Orthodox & Maronite Catholics) but they also often get married in eachothers Churches, God-parents etc. It's like people over there have forgotten about the schism lol, but then again, in an environment which is basically dominated by Islam, and Lebanon basically being the only "Christian" country in the middle east (constitutionally) Christians really dont have time to care I guess. Same thing happens in Ukraine with the UGCC and the Kyiv Patriarch UOC
The claim that EO preserved mystical theology much more than Catholics is complete nonsense. The Online EO apologist emphasize it in arguments but it is not borne out by data. In fact I'll venture to say there are more Catholic mystical theologians than any other denomination. I'm sure you've heard of Bonaventure. Theresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Bernard of Clairvux. Hugh of St. Victor. Hildegard of Bingen. On and on and On. Just because we don't try to wax mystical in online debates does not mean we don't have a rich tradition of mystics.
That guy doesn‘t even understand what his own church and its priests teach about saint augustine… Seraphim Rose (a passed away eastern „orthodox“ priest, who is almost declareded as a saint, who lived in the 20th century) admits in one of his books (‚The Place of blessed Augustine in the orthodox church‘) admits, that the saint augustine teached and believed the filioque. Good work, Brother! Keep going! Glory to Jesus Christ and Ave Maria!
I'm coming here after watching Craig's video and his several instances of mental gymnastics aside, he doesn't realise that the whole "because the economy is referred to in context, it means it's temporal procession" idea (which is basically his entire argument) is shooting himself and the entire EO position in the leg because if you apply that logic to John 15:26, their entire scriptural basis for monopatrism, it means that it is only referring to temporal procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father P.S. Hi Dwong, it's me again. I'm not sure if you remember, but I commented under one of your Filioque videos - I think the Church Fathers one - that you singlehandedly brought me back to the Church. You asked how and the answer was a lengthy reply which for some reason TH-cam didn't seem to let me post. Sorry about that
So I tried reading Photius' Mystagogy expecting to maybe learn something about the Holy Spirit, but it turns out to be just an unhinged rant. How anyone could choose Photius' teachings over the beautiful teachings of Ambrose and Augustine is mind-boggling.
Love the video! As a suggestion you should edit your channel home-page. When clicking on your channel your "home" section is empty, so one would have to click the video section to see your content.
Thanks Dwong, solid as always. You should make a video on your time in the monastery. I'm interested to hear what your experience was like! Do you hope to return some day?
I’m late to the fun, but can you also make a similarly beautiful and thorough video about the orthodox claim about the pentarchy and the historical evidence for the primacy of the Roman see over the other four? I just discovered your channel, and have already watched 4 of your videos. Not sure how I’ve gone this long without seeing your content. Thank you for your incredible work!
Thank you for pointing out the dishonesty of Craig, they're so many apologist against Catholics that just read into the text or sometimes even ignore it all together. Your video's are incredible brother, keep up the great work and God bless you & yours.
It is clear from all the above that St. Augustine held that the Holy Ghost proceeds from both the Father and the Son as from one principle; this is the way he was and always has been understood by the Doctors of the Church; Mr Truglia is clearly wrong and his attempts to prove the contrary futile.
All of the joint declarations I’m aware of basically says there is still substantial disagreement. They have never formally retracted Blachernae in any of their works as far as I am aware of
Yes St. Cyril’s 3rd Letter to Nestorius shows that the Filioque is a teaching of the Ecumenical Councils. However, the Eastern Orthodox will simply say it’s with regards to economic procession
@@CatholicDwong Well, it seems that it would not be hard to Show that it is eternal procesion, but i thunk there is no way to argue from that letter that it is not energetic procesion. When i asked Jenga how to solve this problem he said that we would have to Show that Cyril Belived in ADS, but i Wonder if there is diffrent way, because if we would Show ADS, then we would already disprof EO so there would be no point in Fürther discusing
@@Carneadesorg in my video the Church Fathers taught the Filioque at 46:40 I argue that St. Cyril’s 3rd Letter to Nestorius is regarding Hypostatic Filioque
@@jebbush2527It would be more efficient to just stick to proving that St. Cyril’s letter is affirming the filioque (which, as far as i can tell, it does).
The missing point is, what does the son have that the father doesn't? We believe the Spirit does not proceed from the Son except by operation not origin.
@@Dlee-eo5vv 1. The Father communicates all to the Son except Paternity and Unbegottenness 2. Spiration is neither Paternity nor Unbegottenness 3. Therefore the Father communicates spiration to the Son 4. Therefore the Father and the Son spirate the Holy Spirit
Dwong, I recognize that monastery in the photo. Did you live at the Maronite monastery to the east of a body of water beginning with the letter Q? If so are you living in the same state it is located in? I've been meaning to visit there and would appreciate your opinion, and what a visitor should expect.
It's Most Holy Trinity Monastery in Petersham MA. I am going on retreat there with some friends for Holy Week 2024. I don't live in MA anymore. I would highly recommend going. I would go along with their schedule, wake up for morning prayer, come to all Divine Offices, and try to spend two hours a day there in adoration just like the monks. Expect a struggle when entering into silence. When you first encounter silence, your disordered passions will emerge and you will have to deal with internal problems that get looked over day to day and get drowned out in noise. Bring a good spiritual book, but don't spend the entire time just reading, really enter into interior silence.
@@CatholicDwong that's awesome. I grew up in that area and am still in Western Mass. Thank you for the advice. It will be challenging for me but I am willing to try. As former Russian Orthodox, my experience with monasteries didn't involve much if any silent adoration, and I struggle with silence generally, especially because I have tinnitus that increases my anxiety. I'll reach out to them, maybe stay for a weekend. Its hard for me to get time off, and I've got children. Have a blessed Lent!
@@Kai_Stwosz well if you have tinnitus, then you should be more moderate about silence, as that is a real health issue. I had to leave the monastery due to health issues that prevented me from staying in complete silence. So I wouldn’t be too hard on myself with the silence if I were you
Hello, could you help me with a question? I am a Brazilian who is trying to choose between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. As the topic of the papacy is one of the most historically complex, I am studying the Filioque. In one of the arguments of "Scholastic answers" in the video “Escritura e Filioque”, he says that Economics reflects theology. He was saying that as the son sends the Holy Spirit, this serves as proof for the Filioque, because, as the Catholic Encyclopedia says, "Person for another does not only mean that the Person who says he is sent assumes a particular character, at the suggestion of Himself even in the character of Sender, as the Sabellians maintained; nor does it imply any inferiority in the Person sent, as the Arians taught; but it denotes, in accordance with the teaching of the most important theologians and Fathers, the Procession of the Person sent of the Person who sends. Sacred Scripture never presents the Father as sent by the Son, nor the Son as sent by the Holy Spirit." Now, there is a case where the Holy Spirit sends the Son Isaiah 48:16 "Come near to me to hear this: from the beginning I never spoke in secret, since the thing was, I am there. (And now the Lord God with his Spirit sends me)." So, does the Holy Spirit sending the son also fit into the same logic? Does the “son come from the Holy Spirit”?
The Holy Spirit can send the Son according to His humanity, because it is an action that is appropriated to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit proceeds by way of the immanent will, therefore He is said to send the Son by an impulse of the will. The Latin Fathers will clearly say that the Holy Spirit is sent by the Son because He proceeds from the Son. See 1:18:45 in th-cam.com/video/x6CcNU3YcX0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Tutgsnnr72Xy6l4W
Also note that the verse is ambiguous . The ESV renders it "And now the Lord God has sent me, and his Spirit." NIV: "And now the Sovereign Lord has sent me, endowed with his Spirit." RSV: "And now the Lord God has sent me and his Spirit."
@@KeithOlbermannn I didn't know that, very interesting. The bad thing is that I don't know what the correct translation is. Thank you for the information. God bless you.
Have a look at the parishes, their liturgy and the social relationships among the parishioners. That will tell you how their theology works out in practice.
So, you are saying that Father Maximos Constas (a Greek speaker) who translated Saint Maximus the Confessor misunderstood Saint Maximus and you better grasp what Saint Maximus is actually saying based on the translation of Father Constas who disagrees with you...OK, I guess...
Did you understand what I wrote or not? Do you know that Father Constas who translated Saint Maximus disagrees with you? Did Father Constas not understand the language as well as you when translating it, even though it is his language? Actually address the specific argument I am making and stop deflecting @@CatholicDwong
@@CatholicDwong the passage applied the usage of ekporoumenom to the Father through the son yet the clause was indicated of father in the Greek not an application of the son being a second causation.
Yes it is evidence. That procession is an economic procession, but it serves as a sign that reveals the eternal procession as many Latin Fathers assert
@@CatholicDwong thanks, just discovered this channel (and how woefully under-chatechized I am lol) a lot of this stuff goes way over my head; the Filioque is something that has always seemed obvious to me, I had no idea it has spawned THIS much literature!
God will grant understanding to you if He deems it useful for the benefit of your soul and for your greater glorifying of Him. Do not lose heart over this. Meanwhile, pray so that your will is purified, so that you will nothing other than what He Wills, so that you may be accept with gratitude all that the Lord has granted you, be it capabilities or limitations, for they are all graces in one way or another.
Yes, Cardinal Bessarion at the Council of Florence said all the Greeks could do when they saw the proof of the Filioque from the Fathers is say "forgery, forgery, forgery"
Their position is untenable. When they resort to using the "quote mining" cope in place of an actual argument it's game over. If the filioque is a heresy then that means the Church adopted, tolerated and widely taught heresy for centuries pre-schism. The logical consequence of that position would mean that Christ failed in his promise to preserve the Church and/or that the Holy Spirit failed or neglected to preserve and guard the Church from teaching doctrinal error. As Jesus said the Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. Their position is blasphemy.
My original video had unflattering pictures of Craig, so I re-edited this version to have better pictures of Craig. I am sorry Craig. Please leave a like and a comment even if you have already watched the video!
Your arguments are top tier God bless you for all you do I actually left Orthodoxy because of not being able to reconcile East and West fathers obviously they aren’t contradicting each other
Pure class dwong....God bless you and your loved ones. Thank you for your videos. They are excellent and very helpful in coming to know my reversion to the Catholic Faith was the right decision.
You have my gratitude for stepping up and being a man. Apparently there are just two of us in apologetics.
@@Ty9001while dwong tries to reconcile east and west, apparently critiquing myself makes strange bedfellows as one of the articles against me actually argues that the fathers east and west were at odds (and wrongly asserts I am incorrect in stating that the West identified the temporal procession as a proof of the identity of essence being identical in the Trinity--a point explicitly made by Augustine and Hilary of Pointers, quoted in my own video).
East and West are the same as my video shows. The West changed beginning in the eighth century.
Read a little. Photius disagrees with you and agrees with me (at least officially, if you actually read the whole quote). Palamas disagrees with you. Gennadius disagrees with you. Philaret of Moscow disagrees with you. I'm appealing to saints and you're appealing to an internet personality. Try a new argument and one that is not a logical fallacy (appeal to authority).
The fact we resort to ad homs (i'm dishonest), appeals to authority, non sequiturs (Dwong), and no actual critique of what I said reveals that many of you are still searching for a good response and don't have one. Augustine was Orthodox.@@LiliGoof-gh4ch
Filioque theology is so confusing I find myself having to watch these multiple times to understand them haha. Keep up the great work!
I may be biased but I think it’s quite understandable, first in the biblical texts, then in the Fathers. On the contrary, nothing can be more outstretched and confusing than the Monopatrist (or “Father Alone”) Pneumatology.
@@masterchief8179 Agreed!👍
I think the concept is generally pretty simple but it definitely takes some hard thought to understand at a satisfactory level, as with anything worth studying
0:00 Introduction
4:57 St. Augustine's Tractate 99
26:23 Craig or Photius the "Great"
27:04 St. Augustine's On the Trinity, Book 5
36:02 St. Augustine's On the Trinity, Book 4
44:42 St. Augustine's Against Maximinus the Arian, Book 2
49:28 St. Augustine's Psychological Analogies
56:14 St. Hilary of Poitiers On the Trinity, Book 2, 29
1:01:29 St. Hilary On the Trinity, Book 8
1:09:20 St. Hilary On the Trinity, Book 12
1:10:32 St. Athanasius Ad Serapion
1:17:55 St. Cyril
1:20:06 St. Maximus the Confessor
1:24:08 St. Ambrose
1:26:40 St. Tarasius, Nicaea 2, and Hadrian's Letter
Dwong videos are so good we always get each one twice lol
xD
Based Quoteminer Dwong
Thank you dwong, very cool.
No but in all seriousness, keep up the great work. Your videos should be the standard for all of the apologist discussions between east and west, protestant and catholic, etc. Love your videos and may God bless you.
I have to point this out, even though I’m not Catholic, I’ve suffered an unbearable amount of anxiety when it comes to the orthodox church. This content has actually brought me a lot of peace, so I just wanted to. Thank you
You’re welcome brother. A few years ago I first heard about Dyer and all these online EO apologists arguing against the Catholic faith. I saw no one adequately addressed them, so I did my own study and realized that they’re completely wrong.
The Catholic Church is calling you home though :)
@@CatholicDwong I’ve still got a LONG way to go before crossing the Tiber. I’m currently LCMS and very sold on it, but building a community to address anxiety and OCD revolving around religion… learning Orthodox and Catholic positions is astoundingly helpful for helping those from traditions I don’t belong to.
Pax Christi!
Welcome and God bless you brother, I just recently left Orthodoxy from a very traditional/monastic place and this caused my family and I much unnecessary anxiety.
Glory to God, my wife and I were former Catholic and we left Orthodoxy and are now back home in Traditional Roman Catholicism.
Don’t be afraid, pray and may God guide you.
Great video!
I love mother mary
East 🤝 West
Loving Mother Mary
The church fathers are to strong 💪 for the Orthodox to handled
what
This may be off topic, but I want to see if people can agree/relate with me. If you're a Catholic (doesn't matter if ur Latin rite or one of the Eastern rites) and you speak to a CRADLE EO, they're so much nicer, I've seen many Serbian Orthodox/Greek Orthodox cradle people call us brothers, I've engaged with many Romanian Orthodox (Cradle) people and the vast majority are really nice (and when I mean nice, I don't mean they bow down to me/Rome, or go against their faith/affirm something I affirm just because I'm there) and most of them actually want reunion, This is even common around many CRADLE EO priests. Meanwhile, converts to Orthodoxy who were protestants still seem to carry this HATRED for Catholicism as they did when they were protestant (probably bc that's what their prot church taught them) and are still so much more hostile than need be. I think this is really damaging, because it makes ALL EO look like these disrespectful and hateful people, when 98% of the ones I've met are really not. Can anyone agree? or give their take?
I can affirm this. I was a protestant because I was biased against the Roman Church. When I became disillusioned against Protestantism and began reading the Fathers I became Orthodox, and was so for twelve years til I began to question my biases against Catholicism. The main reason I stayed Orthodox was I was reading their polemics instead of weighing the arguments between West and East with an open mind. I am now converting to the Catholic Church. Pray for me that my wife and children follow me!
This is very accurate. But it's more complicated. First of all it's not only ex protestants, but also ex Catholics who now hate the Catholic Church because of post Vatican II degeneration in the Church (which of course had nothing to do with the causes of the schism). Also, regarding cradle EOs, it depends on the region. In the balkans, Catholics and EOs hate each other, but that's because there's so much nationalistic division there that religion becomes another excuse to hate each other. In the Middle East the relations are much better, and there's even inter communion and marriages in a lot of cases, mostly because in general they are all being attacked by the atheist Western powers, so often they are forced to attend each others services for lack of option. Still, Western converts are the worst by far.
Personally I think there are many good things developed in Eastern Orthodox tradition that are also (or could be) Catholic patrimony, like Hesychasm, Saints like Seraphim of Sarov etc, and they preserved things like Mystical Theology and true doctrines of theosis much more than the Catholics, so I believe the goal should be reunion, and not simply converting all of them and ending their Church.
@@Kai_Stwoszthat's nice! What Catholics fail to understand though, is that the purest form of Catholicism (and of Christianity itself) is to be found in medieval (800 - 1300) Catholicism. After that the Church has been suffering and on the decline (though still forever the true Church of Christ), and Western Civilization as a whole because of it. So whenever looking for the ideal example of what Catholicism is and should be, look at that time period. And as such, obverse that, because of EOs caesaropapism, and because there they've never acknowledged the superiority of Spiritual Authority of the Church over the State, they were always hostages to the political interests of governments and as such their councils and other decisions cannot be trusted; because of that very reason also, there could never have been in the EO world immense, world changing figures coming from the ranks of the Church like there was in the West figures like Saint Bernard, Urban II, Gregory VII, Innocent III, nor could it ever conjure up such efforts as the Crusades, for in order for of this to be accomplished, there had to be an independent and transcendent authority in the Church that surpassed and bound all kingdoms and states to one unity of civilization and communion.
Yes, this is very common especially in Lebanon, infact, people not only commune at eachothers churches (mostly Greek Orthodox & Maronite Catholics) but they also often get married in eachothers Churches, God-parents etc. It's like people over there have forgotten about the schism lol, but then again, in an environment which is basically dominated by Islam, and Lebanon basically being the only "Christian" country in the middle east (constitutionally) Christians really dont have time to care I guess. Same thing happens in Ukraine with the UGCC and the Kyiv Patriarch UOC
The claim that EO preserved mystical theology much more than Catholics is complete nonsense. The Online EO apologist emphasize it in arguments but it is not borne out by data. In fact I'll venture to say there are more Catholic mystical theologians than any other denomination. I'm sure you've heard of Bonaventure. Theresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Bernard of Clairvux. Hugh of St. Victor. Hildegard of Bingen. On and on and On. Just because we don't try to wax mystical in online debates does not mean we don't have a rich tradition of mystics.
Based charity moment.
Thank you Dwong!
That guy doesn‘t even understand what his own church and its priests teach about saint augustine… Seraphim Rose (a passed away eastern „orthodox“ priest, who is almost declareded as a saint, who lived in the 20th century) admits in one of his books (‚The Place of blessed Augustine in the orthodox church‘) admits, that the saint augustine teached and believed the filioque.
Good work, Brother! Keep going!
Glory to Jesus Christ and Ave Maria!
I'm coming here after watching Craig's video and his several instances of mental gymnastics aside, he doesn't realise that the whole "because the economy is referred to in context, it means it's temporal procession" idea (which is basically his entire argument) is shooting himself and the entire EO position in the leg because if you apply that logic to John 15:26, their entire scriptural basis for monopatrism, it means that it is only referring to temporal procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father
P.S. Hi Dwong, it's me again. I'm not sure if you remember, but I commented under one of your Filioque videos - I think the Church Fathers one - that you singlehandedly brought me back to the Church. You asked how and the answer was a lengthy reply which for some reason TH-cam didn't seem to let me post. Sorry about that
God bless you brother! Thank you so much for your kind response. Are you on Discord? If so add Dwong23 on Discord, I’d love to text chat
@@CatholicDwongsure, I just did. I'm Jeanvingtquatre there too
So I tried reading Photius' Mystagogy expecting to maybe learn something about the Holy Spirit, but it turns out to be just an unhinged rant. How anyone could choose Photius' teachings over the beautiful teachings of Ambrose and Augustine is mind-boggling.
If you want a good book on the Trinity the Catholic author Fr Gilles Emery OP is very good.
Could u give an example?
Love the video! As a suggestion you should edit your channel home-page. When clicking on your channel your "home" section is empty, so one would have to click the video section to see your content.
Thanks Dwong, solid as always. You should make a video on your time in the monastery. I'm interested to hear what your experience was like! Do you hope to return some day?
Yes, I will be returning for a retreat
We need more of this.
I’m late to the fun, but can you also make a similarly beautiful and thorough video about the orthodox claim about the pentarchy and the historical evidence for the primacy of the Roman see over the other four? I just discovered your channel, and have already watched 4 of your videos. Not sure how I’ve gone this long without seeing your content. Thank you for your incredible work!
Gem content king!
Thanks bossman
Craig Truglia literally is reading into the text, using Blachernaenian theology.
I'm Orthodox but this is a very good video
@@SUDMONEYBAGS God bless you brother 🙏
@@CatholicDwong You too ❤
Thank you for pointing out the dishonesty of Craig, they're so many apologist against Catholics that just read into the text or sometimes even ignore it all together. Your video's are incredible brother, keep up the great work and God bless you & yours.
Thank you 🙏
It is clear from all the above that St. Augustine held that the Holy Ghost proceeds from both the Father and the Son as from one principle; this is the way he was and always has been understood by the Doctors of the Church; Mr Truglia is clearly wrong and his attempts to prove the contrary futile.
Yep, you’re absolutely right
Legend!
I love you so much dawg!
@@1rish88 ❤️
I love Mother Mary
You’re great
Haven't the Orthodox signed some joint declarations regarding the Filioque in recent times? Don't they all go against Blachernae?
All of the joint declarations I’m aware of basically says there is still substantial disagreement. They have never formally retracted Blachernae in any of their works as far as I am aware of
But doesn't third letter to Nestorius (with proper explonation of why it teaches Filioque), preety much ends debate because it is infalible document?
Yes St. Cyril’s 3rd Letter to Nestorius shows that the Filioque is a teaching of the Ecumenical Councils. However, the Eastern Orthodox will simply say it’s with regards to economic procession
@@CatholicDwong Well, it seems that it would not be hard to Show that it is eternal procesion, but i thunk there is no way to argue from that letter that it is not energetic procesion. When i asked Jenga how to solve this problem he said that we would have to Show that Cyril Belived in ADS, but i Wonder if there is diffrent way, because if we would Show ADS, then we would already disprof EO so there would be no point in Fürther discusing
@@Carneadesorg in my video the Church Fathers taught the Filioque at 46:40 I argue that St. Cyril’s 3rd Letter to Nestorius is regarding Hypostatic Filioque
@@CarneadesorgI’d also argue energetic processions mirror hypostatic eternal realities
@@jebbush2527It would be more efficient to just stick to proving that St. Cyril’s letter is affirming the filioque (which, as far as i can tell, it does).
The missing point is, what does the son have that the father doesn't? We believe the Spirit does not proceed from the Son except by operation not origin.
The Son possesses all from the Father save for what is excluded by relative opposition (paternity and unbegottenness)
@dwong9289 agreed, that's why Orthodoxy say the Spirit rests in the son not proceeds except in economy.
@@Dlee-eo5vv 1. The Father communicates all to the Son except Paternity and Unbegottenness
2. Spiration is neither Paternity nor Unbegottenness
3. Therefore the Father communicates spiration to the Son
4. Therefore the Father and the Son spirate the Holy Spirit
@@CatholicDwong what a leap.
@@Dlee-eo5vv Is it that you don’t understand, or it is that you don’t want to understand?
For the algo
Not mocking but Craig sounds like Jerry Seinfeld at: 45:34
Dwong, I recognize that monastery in the photo. Did you live at the Maronite monastery to the east of a body of water beginning with the letter Q? If so are you living in the same state it is located in? I've been meaning to visit there and would appreciate your opinion, and what a visitor should expect.
It's Most Holy Trinity Monastery in Petersham MA. I am going on retreat there with some friends for Holy Week 2024. I don't live in MA anymore.
I would highly recommend going. I would go along with their schedule, wake up for morning prayer, come to all Divine Offices, and try to spend two hours a day there in adoration just like the monks.
Expect a struggle when entering into silence. When you first encounter silence, your disordered passions will emerge and you will have to deal with internal problems that get looked over day to day and get drowned out in noise.
Bring a good spiritual book, but don't spend the entire time just reading, really enter into interior silence.
@@CatholicDwong that's awesome. I grew up in that area and am still in Western Mass. Thank you for the advice. It will be challenging for me but I am willing to try. As former Russian Orthodox, my experience with monasteries didn't involve much if any silent adoration, and I struggle with silence generally, especially because I have tinnitus that increases my anxiety. I'll reach out to them, maybe stay for a weekend. Its hard for me to get time off, and I've got children. Have a blessed Lent!
@@Kai_Stwosz well if you have tinnitus, then you should be more moderate about silence, as that is a real health issue. I had to leave the monastery due to health issues that prevented me from staying in complete silence. So I wouldn’t be too hard on myself with the silence if I were you
Thanks for video
Amo a la madre María
Let's goooo
Dwong, I'm buying your book.
Awesome, thanks!!!
Please leave a review when youre done
@ will do brother!
Could you please respond to all of his videos? Sadly, there are really not many videos responding to "orthodox" heretics especially Craig and David
Hello, could you help me with a question? I am a Brazilian who is trying to choose between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. As the topic of the papacy is one of the most historically complex, I am studying the Filioque. In one of the arguments of "Scholastic answers" in the video “Escritura e Filioque”, he says that Economics reflects theology. He was saying that as the son sends the Holy Spirit, this serves as proof for the Filioque, because, as the Catholic Encyclopedia says, "Person for another does not only mean that the Person who says he is sent assumes a particular character, at the suggestion of Himself even in the character of Sender, as the Sabellians maintained; nor does it imply any inferiority in the Person sent, as the Arians taught; but it denotes, in accordance with the teaching of the most important theologians and Fathers, the Procession of the Person sent of the Person who sends. Sacred Scripture never presents the Father as sent by the Son, nor the Son as sent by the Holy Spirit." Now, there is a case where the Holy Spirit sends the Son Isaiah 48:16 "Come near to me to hear this: from the beginning I never spoke in secret, since the thing was, I am there. (And now the Lord God with his Spirit sends me)." So, does the Holy Spirit sending the son also fit into the same logic? Does the “son come from the Holy Spirit”?
The Holy Spirit can send the Son according to His humanity, because it is an action that is appropriated to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit proceeds by way of the immanent will, therefore He is said to send the Son by an impulse of the will. The Latin Fathers will clearly say that the Holy Spirit is sent by the Son because He proceeds from the Son. See 1:18:45 in th-cam.com/video/x6CcNU3YcX0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Tutgsnnr72Xy6l4W
@@CatholicDwongMany thanks for the reply. God bless you.
Also note that the verse is ambiguous . The ESV renders it "And now the Lord God has sent me, and his Spirit." NIV: "And now the Sovereign Lord has sent me,
endowed with his Spirit." RSV: "And now the Lord God has sent me and his Spirit."
@@KeithOlbermannn I didn't know that, very interesting. The bad thing is that I don't know what the correct translation is. Thank you for the information. God bless you.
Have a look at the parishes, their liturgy and the social relationships among the parishioners. That will tell you how their theology works out in practice.
Would you be willing to formally debate or discuss the subject matter with Craig live?
No I don’t usually do things live. I like to prepare videos. Debates are not the best way to arrive at the truth
So, you are saying that Father Maximos Constas (a Greek speaker) who translated Saint Maximus the Confessor misunderstood Saint Maximus and you better grasp what Saint Maximus is actually saying based on the translation of Father Constas who disagrees with you...OK, I guess...
Actually address the arguments presented
Did you understand what I wrote or not? Do you know that Father Constas who translated Saint Maximus disagrees with you? Did Father Constas not understand the language as well as you when translating it, even though it is his language? Actually address the specific argument I am making and stop deflecting @@CatholicDwong
@@CatholicDwong the passage applied the usage of ekporoumenom to the Father through the son yet the clause was indicated of father in the Greek not an application of the son being a second causation.
Isn't Christ breathing the Holy Spirit onto the Apostles after the resurrection enough evidence that the HS proceeds from the Son?
Yes it is evidence. That procession is an economic procession, but it serves as a sign that reveals the eternal procession as many Latin Fathers assert
@@CatholicDwong thanks, just discovered this channel (and how woefully under-chatechized I am lol) a lot of this stuff goes way over my head; the Filioque is something that has always seemed obvious to me, I had no idea it has spawned THIS much literature!
I want to be able to understand these topics more😭
Have you seen my more introductory videos yet?
@@CatholicDwongno I haven’t just found you channel
God will grant understanding to you if He deems it useful for the benefit of your soul and for your greater glorifying of Him. Do not lose heart over this. Meanwhile, pray so that your will is purified, so that you will nothing other than what He Wills, so that you may be accept with gratitude all that the Lord has granted you, be it capabilities or limitations, for they are all graces in one way or another.
@@servus_incognitus
This is what Saint Therese of the Child Jesus says:
"Perfection consists in doing God's will, in being what he wants us to be"
Have you seen Craig's latest response to this video?
It’s not good and doesn’t refute this video
@@CatholicDwong Thought so as well, he's just coping at this point
Legend
Good stuff yet again. It is very tiresome to always his the "quote mine!" or "forgery!" or "interpolation!" dismissals.
Yes, Cardinal Bessarion at the Council of Florence said all the Greeks could do when they saw the proof of the Filioque from the Fathers is say "forgery, forgery, forgery"
Your so based
❤️
I have evidence Truglia admits the RC argument on papacy is superior.
please provide
Can you make a video on Josephus. Please, thank you.
Ave Maria Purisima 🌹🤍🌹
I hope to eventually make a video on the Truth of the Catholic faith, and it would probably quote Josephus as evidence for the historicity of Christ.
@@CatholicDwong Almighty God keep you. I love your work. Hope you one day visit Montreal.
Some EO said that your videos are qoutemined
Some EO stupid
Watch 1:03
@dwong9289 Yea I watched it thanks
Their position is untenable. When they resort to using the "quote mining" cope in place of an actual argument it's game over. If the filioque is a heresy then that means the Church adopted, tolerated and widely taught heresy for centuries pre-schism. The logical consequence of that position would mean that Christ failed in his promise to preserve the Church and/or that the Holy Spirit failed or neglected to preserve and guard the Church from teaching doctrinal error. As Jesus said the Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. Their position is blasphemy.
FIRST AGAIN
You are so goated
based dwong
Thanks boss!
heresy.
Get thee hence satan