Hope Pro5 vs DT Swiss 350 (240 exp)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มี.ค. 2023
- Who Wins? We talk points of engagement, degrees of engagement, Backlash, Kickback, Maintenance, and then choose a winner.
This Video features the new Hope Pro 5 Hubs and the New DT Swiss 350 hubs. We also discuss the upgrade to the EXP ratchet system and the pros of upgrade over the 240 hubs.
These hubs are good all round hubs for most types of cycling, both have great reputations. Both are around the same price.
We paid full price for all the items in this video. They are for customers of the shop, nothing in this video is sponsored or supported by either brand.
Here is the link to the Hope Pro 5 teardown vid: • Review & 3 min Strip &... - กีฬา
It’s personal preference, I have always ridden Hope hubs and they have never let me down so I’ll stay with them but always good to know what else is out there 👍
I have a DT Swiss 240 FH on my XC bike and am still so impressed with the quality of the bearings. Quality video. Thanks.
Thank you John
Nice to see someone not being a paid actor, as i see it these days most blogs and yt channels just get some stuff free take like 2 laps and state their great opinion on the internet, not even considering manitnance, easyness of service and availability of stuff like bearings. Nice and honest video Man i’ll go for swiss
Great video! I love the clear answer to “what would I buy?” Now I want to see a video on the shimano hubs you are using.
I've got a set of Hope 20five wheels with Pro 4 hubs - ZERO issues. Beautiful sounding. Stable and reliable. Big props for European manufacturing, something I highly value.
Got the 20five with a Pro 5. Amazing quality.
On my third set of Hopes (Pro II, Pro II Evo, Pro 4) and never did anything for maintenance. All of them are still in use and are running perfectly.
Interesting about the engagement angle . I had never thought about that ( so i guess it's never been an issue).
Excellent summary. I agree that Hopes generally need more servicing (Pro2, Pro2EVO and 4) but they are easy to fully strip and replace all the bearings. DT last longer between services but are a more involved job. Hopes are also very good for spares and end caps and moving between bikes, even converting non-boost to boost.
I've had pro 3 from 2004 till 2023 brilliant hub. Only changed the bearings. It went through a decade plus of Norfolk winters and the previous decade in Oxfordshire.
Pro 3 weren't out in 2004.
Have to say, this vid made me appreciate my XT cup and cone hubs more.
Excellent mechanic with solid info. DT Swiss are bombproof with replacement bearings available everywhere.
I live in Perth Western Australia and have been riding the Pro 4's for 6 months. It hasn't rained yet for them to get dirty let alone contaminated in anyway. For where I live the Hopes are a great option and I really like them.
It hasn’t rained in 6 months ….. how do you grow things?
Great Video i was deciding between the Dt and Hope and ended up going with XTR just for the silence, And you keep them running well for me so no maintenance 😛
Nice. I’m in the silent hubs club
Nice review mate. Appreciate the unbiased and knowledgeable review of these components. Im a bit disapponted with Hope Pro 5. Seems like it is not as "weatherproof" as some have claimed.
Hope all day long been using them since the pro 2, my pro4 hasnt been serviced for 3 years and still perfect in the worst uk conditions. Defo going for the pro5 as i will benefit a lot from the increased engagement
Hello Paul
I have recently started watching your channel and really enjoy your content. Very balanced advice and opinions based on your real life experience in the bike trade with no axe to grind. I have cycled for the last 32 years mostly road as a keen club level racer, both road races and time trials. However, since stopping racing I have also become a keen mountain bike and more recently gravel riding. Actually more like bridal way sections to link together road section. In all that time and my 10's of 1000's miles of riding I have never thought about or wished for more points of ingagement on my rear hubs. As a all year round high mileage rider wheel durability and reliability are the key for my needs. The whole more points of engagement debate is classic new cycling ride like a pro Internet driven culture. Rather actually get out on your bike, especially in winter the new breed think they can buy fitness and speed. Are mostly more interested in showing off how much they can afford or prepared to get on credit. Not just enjoy riding your bike.
Regards hubs had to be DT over Hope. Never got the whole multi coloured anodised appeal. Yes Hope we'll made and problems are sorted by their excellent customer service. Personally just prefer the excellent durability and reliability of DT. Never had issues and I can say the same about the older Mavic and any Campagnolo wheels I have owned. Currently running carbon Bora's on 2 of my bikes and they amazing wheels.
I been running the older DT 350's on my full suspension for 3 years in all weather and they have been perfect.
Well jealous of your new Look Paul.
Thanks Dean. Great post.
With more engagement points the shifting becomes sharper / crispy and it's a lot more fun to do sprints and accelerations in general. And you no longer need to have a bell, just backpedal 😄
Do you any proper data to prove that or it is just what you perceive or have been told by someone who has proof. What mKrs me laugh is all this obessision with points of engagement so you can all ride with 34 teeth sprockets and and 50/34 chain rings.
@@deanf2259 First up no hipster, big city coffee rider here. It`s cold and harsh here in Scandinavia and i see durabillity as keyfactor nr.1. My experience is mostly based on roadtraining and racing. In my opinion, shifting speed and precision isn`t that crucial on a trail.
Then i only can give you the advice to try it out for yourself if you don`t belive me :) There is no reason why i should need some data or why i would telling stories, i have the tools´, parts, wheels, customers and expierence. Been a full time mechanic for years ;)
Even my old grumpy collegues were sceptical right until they rode a 54t 240 wheel. The difference in shifting precision also gets noticed by amateuers riders. So..try and be happy 👍
And there is another personal expierence note i`d like to add: I don´t get so fatigue as fast. The faster engagement smoothens out / eliminates the gap when shifting. By that i mean there isn`t such a big and abruptly difference in resistance when shifting from one to another cog.
It`s smoother, shifts under heavy load (well only if you run Sram) and saves your legmuscles. And if you add oval chainrings you also save your knees :)
I have several bikes usually with Campa/ Fulcrum (they are good). I ve recently taken old bike with Dt hubs (Bontrager ) for use what I like is the silence in riding you almost don’t hear the ratchet 13:27
I think preferred usage is a factor, as mentioned early in the video. Earlier engagement is more useful for mtn bikers and trials riders than riding on roads and pavement. I’m guessing Hope’s main target customer is probably a downhill or trials rider, someone who needs to make quick strong efficient engagements with high degrees of control. Because of the abuse these types of riding impart on components, they are checked and maintained often. For xc riders or cyclocross racers, Chris King hubs might be a better choice, since they seem to have better sealing? I do feel like the earlier engagement on trail bikes helps with bike control on tricky steep climbs and technical trails.
I have 17yr old Chris King iso hubs both still on their original bearings. When I ran hope hubs they needed a bearing change yearly.
Full tool kit and DT hubs on everything I could ,with road being dura ace hubs. Both designed to last. DT also have the lowest temperature rating for fat bike hubs. This is a real consideration as I ride below -20 a bit during races
DA ace hubs are beautiful.
got 350 hubs on all 3 of my mtbs, can't go wrong
thank you for the video 👍
Insightful and invaluable.
Thank you
The last time I experienced kickback the seat tube & chainstays on my Norco hardtail were caving in...
As a eastern canadian hope hubs point of sale and service are almost a mirage. Too bad since my son watched Sam Pilgrim he absolutely wants hope hubs 😅
Have to say that the bearing reliability of my hope pro4 hubs is also pretty poor. Second set of bearings in two years. That’s why I also switched to a pair of dt swiss 350 hubs. Thanks a lot for the pro tip for the elevation wheel company tool. Definitely will order this tool for my toolbox.
Ditto.
It’s a back and sanity saver
I have a dt swiss 350 that was installed on a set of 26 inch sun single 32 spokes that I have used for over 25 thousand miles going across the US from Vancouver WA to Portland Maine and down to NYC and had no issues, same hubs have ridden from San Francisco to Mexico and also from Maine to Florida in all kinds of weather and no issues. Those other hubs look nice but I will stay with the Swiss which is also a nice cheese on a sandwich.
That’s some mileage 😳
I have never had a problem with DT 350. And the original factory bearings are of very high quality
You are so right in this video. I have multiple wheels with DT Swiss hubs (FFWD with 240, 350 and 3-pawl) and even though I tend to love them, I hate the special ring. Even with the special tool it's almost impossible to remove it and so for that kind of maintainance it's off to the bikeshop. Bot on the other hand, to be honest, I rode for six years with next-to-none service on one of the wheels and it only started to make some noise because the grease had dried out.
There seems to be a certain balance between ease of maintainance and the interval needed. I've got Shimano hubs that are pretty easy to maintain, but forget it once and get it pitted and you have to replace your axle. My (winter) Fulcrum wheels have bearings that last a season or two but replacing those is a 5 minute job. The DT 350 wheels I use are in all conditions are harder to open up (the ring...) but only need a smear of grease every two seasons.
Shimano are slowly adopting 6000 series bearings too.
@@Mapdec I noticed that in the cues-release. Very curious how that change will unfold.
Could you do a video doing, an in depth look into the issues with the shimano scylence hubs? You said you've fixed them, and I'd really like to hear about that. Having heard about all these creaking issues with them, has kept me from buying them. Cheers and love the content lately!
Yes I can. It might not be for a while. But I think it should be done.
the primary issue for a mountain bike is how well the hub/freehub is sealed..........not degrees of engagement. If they stay clean despite riding in mud and water etc, they need very little maintenance. I use DT Swiss 350 hybrid on both my EMTBS. I strip them occasionally because I feel I should but they never need anything more than a wipe over and some fresh "special " grease. No way i want a poorly sealed hub using pawls!!
I had really bad experience regarding pro4's. Bearings in freehub fall apart very quickly after purchesing the wheels. The pawl engagement was also missing some engeniring as they use to broke quite often. Then i switched to dt swiss and never looked back, both on my mtb and road bike. Got my self tools needed for bearing replecement and happy miles ahead...
same i had the bearings in the microspline pro4 freehub go very quickly(6 months or so) causing wear on my cassette... 350 freehub bearings last at least 3-4x as long in my experience even with careless jet washing 😂
Looks wise hope always takes the win
Another fantastic and informative video, thank you. are most DT Swiss hubs from the last 8-10 years the same to service?
It’s complicated. There is some OEM stuff out there that complicates things
anyone know how many rear hub shell sizes the 350 comes in? I can only find stock of 24h in 130 that I'm thinking of converting to 142. Will be my first DT Swiss build after many Hopes
Years( decades ) ago had set wheels with grease port s the Engineer in me loved idea just remembered had pedals with the I would like the hubs again not pedal as the pedals of today are excellent what’s your fave pedals I ve stopped using Spd gone to flat mtb on my road bike have help my old knees climbing Devon s hills
A DT fanboy right here. The bearings last forever so a full strip down is hardly ever necessary. 54t (6 degrees of engagement) is all you need IMO, any less and whether you feel kickback or not, you are compromising the function of the rear suspension. I have 8 sets of wheels, running a mix of 350 & 240 across 5 bikes and hot swap them out depending on the conditions and type of ride I'm doing. dropping the free hub off and cleaning takes seconds and is a rare necessity.
I use the straight pull 350s on my road (CX) bike. Wonderful hubs for the money.
I'm only using DT hubs. Never had to replace even a bearing. Absolutely bulletproof. Great products.
"If you want that obnoxious noise..."😂. I suspect that a good proportion of Hope hub users buy them for exactly that reason!
Thanks for your videos and super interesting insights. I have Scope wheels and the ratchet system really resembles DT's one. What would be, in your opinion, the risk of using standard grease in the ratchet system ?
I maintained one of my hubs with standard grease once, but I'm for sure going to buy the special one from the brand :).
Thanks. The ratchet will stick together and not function correctly. It won’t release as you stop peddling and your chain can get fouled up.
@@Mapdec alright thanks. That didn't happen (with a very small amount). The phenomenon could also be amplified by temperature, making the grease more or less sticky. But nothing structural.
Anyway, I'll still order the correct one :)
Keep up the good work, always great to see your videos !
Agreed, plus they're cheaper than the Hope. Haven't starting building wheels yet, but I've already had my eye on the 350's for when I will. Would like your opinion if any other hubs you'd recommend for us home bike builders.
Bitex are a good budget option
@@Mapdec thank you 👍
I prefer the slightly increased complexity with the superior protection from the elements. The internal components are just going to last longer which is a good thing in the throwaway society of today.
just got a new wheelset with a 350 (had a shimano xt before) and it feels like the bike can fly now 😁also love the sound because shimano really is very quiet. but the worst for me on the shimano was that the hub after only 1 year (around 12000km) got a bit loose (that's not why i changed it. i actually fell down a hole with the bike and the rim broke). will see how the 350 runs in the long term
Good Day. What spoke length/nipples did you use for the Hope pro 5/DT Swiss EX511 build. Thank You! Cant seem to find proper hub spec dimensions anywhere.
Just put the dimensions into a spoke calculator.
7:08 In -10C even with a lube/oil a freehub will silent, at least on Pro 4. But I confirm it works with grease too.
I heard you have to wee on your hubs after a long hike section too 😳
@@Mapdec that will be a wee too much for me. hubs without proper seals or none will freeze, like FH-m745 freehub spin both ways if not in use for a while in -10C. But both DT and Hope did well to resist that.
Talking about DT Swiss hubs, have you any opinions on the DTswiss track hubs?
I’m looking at a DTswiss track hub, Sapin CXray and rim brake build. 🤔🤔
I haven’t seen track hubs in years. Sorry.
Paul really useful vid into the finer points to compliment the earlier full tear down. Great practical tips thanks. Have both DT Swiss (bought) and Hope (inherited) on road wheels. DT Swiss MTB hubs. DT Swiss for me, bombproof durable, also I’m a limited fan of ‘angry bees’ 😄
The bees are in their own league.
Nice video! Having the hope's outboard bearings protected only by the bearings' seal just seems silly. I run 240 EXPs myself (XMC 1501) and would choose DT all day over any other hub out there I9 included.
Thank you.
wish one?? Hope for sure, and only because of the sound they make!!I'm not a pro, and what i get is an object! Not just something to go to work wish sound quiet bad :)
Well i done 4k miles on pro 4 hubs still perfect from outside no play no wobble
I’ve got a DT Swiss 350 rear hub. Once a year I go only as far as the lockring removal to expose the bearings’ seals bc the bearings are in great shape. I lift the seals, flush bearings and degrease/repackage all wo removing the axle. My only worry is that I’m getting degreaser between the axle and lower bearing face. Is this ok given that the axle receives leftover melted grease until I replace bearings?
Oh. Big question!!! Depends on the degreaser. IPA based will just evaporate. Citrus might linger and thin grease, solvent would eventually damage seals and break down grease. Just wash it out with soap and water, let it all dry, even use some WD40 to pull water out. Then fresh grease.
@@Mapdec man oh man, thank you so much. Most in your situation weren’t even bother to take time to understand the quest and to answer. I just hate pulling bearings for pulling sake. Oh, you were right, you WILL know soon if the lockring isn’t installed right. Big thank you from Toronto/Canada.
Great demonstration, thank you. However DT Swiss all the way, always. DT Swiss has kept the old tradition of high end, long lasting manufacturing of products no matter what, unlike others that purposely design their products so it would have controlled life span and durability. DT Swiss from past and still today, Shimano from past are excellent examples of my point. Hope and others don not really need to impress buyers the country of origin when their products lack of durability, instead should try to improve their long lastingness as well as design. I found you a man of honor with your words and review these products very very honest and beautifully. I have great respect for you.
The worry with so many points of engagement is durability. As someone who mainly is on MTB or gravel bikes, in a particularly hilly part of the country I'd prefer durability. I'm running the 350 with 36 points of engagement and don't feel I need anything more and the 54 is known to not be that durable.
54t is bomb proof! early models had some issues, long since resolved. I run 54 on an emtb (orbea Rise) with zero issues.
How do you know when the bearings need replacing in the dt swiss hubs without taking it fully apart?
if they develop play, you should feel it when you wiggle the wheel onto the axle laterally
You will feel wobble (play) and likely hear the grumbling gritty sound.
I wanted to replace my old DT Swiss 370 bearings to a hybrid bearings. How many bearings do i need to get for the front and rear? And what size and model? Thanks
Try to contact DT... and not on YT, I got no answer to my questions.
Are they easier to open than the new ones? Don't tell me you need to take the wheel apart just to replace a bearing or grease, (I can't see this impact gun 9:15 used on the wheel)...
You are spot on, Hopes are great if you replace the bearings every 4 months otherwise you will be walking out
That’s bollocks, mine are on the same set since I got them in April. My pro4 sets have also lasted for a long time in between bearing changes.
Different riders, different results, you are one of the lucky ones.
I would still recommend preventative bearing change if you ride a Hope 4 hub over 4 month of heavy use. Its cheap and easy and will ensure you will not be one of the unlucky ones.
@@TeamWombatMTB I work in a shop with a lot of regular hard riders on pro4’s including a few dh and very very rarely have a failure in a hope hub of any kind. Very rarely in a ratchet dt but plenty of 3 pawl dt failures, i9’s in every 5 minutes for bearings etc. My main bike hasn’t had bearings for about a year in the hubs and they are still smooth.
Lol stop pressure washing your frame! I only use steel so pressure washing was always off the table for me.
Skf, Fag, NTN are aftermarket bearings?! 😲🤔
How often should you service the DT Swiss ratchet system? I’ve got a set of wheels with 240 hubs with 15,000 km on them. They seem to be fine but should they be serviced?
I think they would benifit from removing the freehub, cleaning and treating to some new special grease by now. As grit and dirt gets in there it will act more like grinding paste than grease. Give them a little treat.
@@Mapdec thanks for the advice!
To get the toothed ring out of the DT Swiss you obviously need the extractor tool but a 300mm adjustable spanner with a 385mm universal spanner extender extension power bar wrench such as made by Nielsen will do the job. No vice/bench needed. That is what I use.
Get an impact driver. Save your spokes, rims, and back.
@@Mapdec Back? I only use my arms lol.
You didn't compare the axes. The DT Swiss 350 has a very thin aluminum axle. Can a DT axle break under a loaded bike or a heavy cyclist (total weight 140kg)? Or is it better to buy Hope Pro 5 or DT Swiss 350 Hybrid?
the 350 with non stainless bearings last so long and are so cheap that I don't see any reason to buy the 240. But I rode Hope rs4 for 17k and still have some hope pro4 and they work very well. the rs4 got sold and the pro4 is just getting relaced to new rims for the third time.
in my experience the hope needs less service. try to clean the ratched rings and pawls and go ride. check the grease after few rides and the hope is still red and clean but the dt is grey and dirty. so the green hope seal is amazing!
I'm building a new wheelset that I would use for ironman 70.3 next year and local fun crit races. Would you recommend Dt Swiss 350 or 240 hubs and should I go with 36t or 54t?
I think you have a legit use for the 180s
@@Mapdechaha, I wish I could go for 180's. I'm not that fast to be honest and want to save the legs for the run after the bike. So far I have only used aluminium wheels (DT Swiss 370 hubs) in last 3 years of cycling and can only manage average speed of 32kmph for max 90 km distance.
This would also be my first set of carbon wheels and while i have learned as much as I can from videos like yours, I don't have actual experience of riding carbon deep wheels. I might go with the 240 hubs for this wheels but just confused if I would really need the 54t upgrade for the hubs as I would it would be used on a bike that I would be mostly riding on flats.
@@HarishChouhan 54t would not improve performance in those sports. Rotational weight savings and aerodynamics should be your main priority
@@MapdecThanks mate. That's what I wanted to know. Since the upgrade to 56 costs $100 extra, I rather spend that on things that matter like gels to power me during the race :).
The DT hubs are great. I used them for years. Only downside is that they don't make that much variants (no 36 spoke hubs for example)
I wanted a decent hub for my Koga Worldtraveller and had to go with Hope because of the 36 spoke rim and centerlock combo. White Industries was also an option but they cost twice as much
You can get the 350 Hybrid with 36 holes.
@@Tullebukk75 nope. Not in 135mm Quick Release with Centerlock. The 350 Hybrid is Boost only
This channel impresses me with its information. What about I9 Hydra?
Now they have good UK distribution, they are ok.
How would you rate them against Pro5?
I found hope pro4 was very good for bearings and the pro5 looks to be the same, dt virtually never have any ratchet related issues but hub shell bearings don’t seem to last very long and having to remove the drive ring each time is a pain.
I’ve just done the bearings in a 240 from 2019. I bought the special tool, nearly broke myself and my vice trying to get the ratchet ring out. Then decided to read the manual on the dt Swiss website and it said that from 2015 (or was it 16?) you don’t need to remove the lockring to get the bearing out. If the washer in front of the bearing will come out then so will the bearing. The ring I.D is almost size for size of the bearing housing but it must have a +?/-0 tolerance because I got the old bearing out and the new one in easily, just using the axle to drive it out and a socket to get the new one in.
Always worth reading the manual.
Does the EXP hub have the same free hub body as the old one?
Yes.
So l've managed to destroy 3 free hubs on the pro 5. Turns out that those lightweight springs that reduce drag aren't up to it if you're a certain type of rider. They're not strong enough to engage the pawls when you're hauling ass and all sorts of unfriendly noises emanate from your rear hub. It's become such an issue hope have produced stronger springs that you can fit if you're suffering from being too bad ass for the pro 5. l've got them in and have no issues now. Just a heads up.
We are just starting to see this same issue. Seems they were not well tested
Yes, the Service department has produced some replacement stronger springs. Stuck them in and the issue goes away. Unfortunately there is a bit more drag and the noise is significantly increased. However I’ve reduced it to only 3 pawls. That’s made the drag go away and the noise is now tolerable. It’s not as high engagement but who really needs ultra high engagement and the pedal kick back is better.
Just ordered a set of pro 5s !
Any suggestions between MTB DT Swiss 350 and Spank J Type for MS config? Would you prefer DT Swiss still, I know Spank has better degree of engagement?
Spank depends on availability in your country. DT Swiss has a new hub launching tomorrow worth a look.
Rapid engagement is a bit overrated imo, except for lowspeed, trialsy stuff. I’ve ran everything from 104 (bontrager) to 24 (giant oem wheels), my experience is that around 54 - 72 poe is the sweetspot. Under that you’ll notice the lag when pedalling out of a corner or on a rooty climb. Everything above that feels great on the parking lot but is barely noticeable on the trail. DT all the way for me, real workhorses, like hubs (or mountainbikes in general) should be.
Good post Mr Bonky
I haven't tried anything between that range but I can confirm that 108 POE from my Nukeproof Horizon v2 wheels are fantastic for the rooty technical climbs of the rainforest! I'm moving to a Hunt Trail Wide v2 wheelset which has an equally high POE. Can't wait!
A thought for future videos: you're in a dark shop with a dark table and dark shirt, so not much contrast for the visually impaired (see Rides Of Japan for contrasty colour bike pop).
Thanks Sab. I’ll see what I can do. If I got a mat for the table. What colour would be best?
on emtb it seems only the new Hope Pro 5 e-bike if you want a bit more engagement. Just motor is self has so much slack that with a 21 or 24 ratchet the engagment is just awfull. Hope pro 5 e-bike got 54 vs normal 108.
I think e-bike riders need to look elsewhere. This might be for folks that actually like riding bikes...
the bearings on my dt370 front hub are already in rough condition after one and a half years
370 are quite different
Got bored of regular servicing Hope hubs and bit the bullet and bought DT Swiss 350's on my mtb and DT Swiss wheelset for my road bike. The road bike wheels have the ratchet system in them also. Its been a breeze with not having to service them weekly like the Hopes. I now just service them every 6 months and I dont even take the cassette off, just gently pull off the axle, clean the ratchet rings and location sliders for the ratchets in the hub and freehub, then a spot of grease and back together for another 6 months. I have done maybe 5000 miles on the MTB hubs and they have needed nothing. I did upgrade to the more teeth ratchet rings so they dont click now, just buzz when freewheeling, so have less or even no noticeable slack. I use Phil Wood grease on my ratchets and its been great and not ever caused slipping and you dont need much, as you say, but tricky to source. Wouldn't ever go back to Hopes again.
Hydra 🔥
After running hopes for years (1996 was my first one) my pro 5 has driven me mad. Even with fortnightly maintenance it still slips and cracks on the freehub.
I’ve just ordered a set of reserve alloy wheels with the dt units.
Hopes were always so robust. It seems they have gone for engagement over all with these new ones. Not here for it.
thanks for adding your feedback.
How about a hub shootout. DT350 moves on to take on Onyx. I would love to learn more about servicing a sprague clutch hub.
A CK vs Onyx might be a fairer battle
@@Mapdec they definitely at a similar price point. Either way, I like that you highlighted the ease of maintenance along with how frequently it would probably need to be performed. Seals are boring compared to talking about grams and how many POE a hub has. But seals are probably the most important part of a hub right behind quality of the machining and the actual bearings used. I’m not saying that a “Hambini reaming” is in order, but maybe a hub shootout would be a cool video series.
You can always upgrade the DT to 64 engagement points.
Not with legit DT components. 54t is max.
Why I can’t use other grease on the dt Swiss ratchet hubs?
Everything else I have tied is too sticky and inhibits movement.
@@Mapdec But I had issues with the 350 hub with DT Swiss Special Grease, in subzero temps sometimes the ratchet would get stuck in the freehub.
But so far only happen few times, not happen since. I did not go crazy with the grease, nor was it super thick, if it was thicker it was only slightly thicker.
It only happen in sub zero temps. But never had such Issues with the hope. but none are my fav, the 350 has better engagement with the 54T ratchet, than the pro4, but now Pro5 has it beat.
But I want to try something like Onyx, cus of the instant engagement. It would be interesting too see more stuff on hubs. not a topic that is talked about much it seems.
Rarely see anything about Project 321, Onyx, But I know Industry Nine Hydra is popular. Some swear by Hadley, but never tried it, weird they don't even have a website.
I’ve still a pair of hope pro 2 evo wheels never had any issue with rear axle bearings even on pro4. Must not ride hard enough
These are the Pro 5
@@Mapdec I just meant about durability. I’m looking at new wheels and saw this video as I hadn’t considered dt Swiss and it caught my interest
👍
Do DT have different colour hubs😊❤
No. Just black with white logos or black with red logos
So its Bontrager rapid drive 108 hub 10 years later😮
Haha. Yes
Still, these hubs have a lot of resistance because of ratchet mechanism. I'd like to get a hub from Onyx or Box Components. No sound, almost no resistance, almost zero degrees of engagement.
bro got the f1 tyre
So how they sooouuuuunnnnnd ?
Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click
If you Mess about with taking your wheels apart every day week trying to figure out what makes you go faster and you need too let everyone else out there know it because of the noise then yeah DT.
I don't understand engagement. With respect to the Hope Hub for instance, how can it have 108 points of engagement if it only has 6 pawls? With 6 pawls, wouldn't that mean a maximum of 6 pawls could engage at any one time, resulting in 6 (not 108) points of engagement?
Sure. So usually only 2 pawls engage at a time, and sometimes the pawls can have 2 or 3 teeth.
@@Mapdec So let's say each pawl has 3 teeth, and 2 pawls engage at any one time, wouldn't the engagement be 2 X 3 = 6 points of engagement, and not 108?
@@virkelie2 all hubs are different how they do this. I believe the hope is a 36 tooth ratchet. 3 pawl engagement every 3.something° or so.
The Pro 5 is a 54t ratchet. 6 pawls total, 3 engaged at any time. Because the pawls have 2 phases (half of them are offset) it doubles the frequency that the pawls are engaged (54 x 2 = 108 POE). The e-bike version is the same 54T ratchet ring, a steel freehub body where all 6 teeth engage at once resulting in half of the engagement (54 POE).
Pawl systems can be great, but I suspect there is maybe a point of diminishing returns when having more teeth means the they need to get smaller. It sounds like some people are having some issues with Pro 5's slipping, and I am curious to know how that compared to the Pro 4s. I have a set of 48 POE Hope Pro 2 singlespeed hubs (all 4 pawls engage at the same time) and they never slip. Very curious.
@@thomaslowry5632 Thanks for your explanation!!
I'm really dissapointed with how quiet the DT swiss 350 hub is, I just put one on my Stumpjumper and the stock specialized crap wheel sounded so much better than the DT Swiss..
Just remove a little grease.
DT Swiss all day long, .... but the NON EXP version.
200% TRUE
Is the exp less reliable?
@@chefsmac6910 No... since the last problem found ( do some research ;-) but, having a bomb-proof hub, DT Swiss complicated things due to patent expiration or novelty to make more money -don't know which one-. Look for an exploded view and compare between the Non-EXP and the EXP versions.
Cheers.
@@chefsmac6910 short after introduction there were problems with the coating, making the ratchet rings stick together and blocking the freehub. These problems were made official by Dt and after swapping the parts the issue should be solved.
Next reason to prefer the old one is, that it included 2 springs instead of 1. If one spring fails the other one saves you. But this is only a theoretical problem.
Last reason is, that an ratchet upgrade now requires tools.
These are no serious reasons to stay clear of exp but if you had the choice go with the old star ratchet sl, which actually makes a comeback in the newly updated 350 hubs :)
got hope pro 4 and dt swiss 350, maintenance wise, 350 is better, its hard to find replacement bearings for hope..using 60t aftermarket ratchet on my 350 as the 54t original ratchet is expensive.
I’ve owned both hope and DT Swiss
DT Swiss is much better
Not so fair to compare a mass industry leader to a boutique brand. Hope definetely have a bling factor it their favor though.
Heard Hope was not nearly as reliable as DT Swiss.
Have they improved?
@@Jacob99174 must have improved over Hope 4, but pretty much nothing can compete with DT in their price group. As said, a mass production industry leader 🤷♂️
By bling to mean a range of colours that make look like a jewellery box. Hubs should be black or silver. Well my opinion. Saw a new Pace in the their shop recently with all Hope kit in Black. Looked amazing and so classy. Very unique in the world of Hope riders lol.
@@deanf2259 true, color overload is a thing. But as an accent it works really well, just to grab attention, but not distract from overall look.
Must say, a proper all black design is definitely a bigger challenge: you start to see different saturation and gloss from different materials and the look starts to fall apart.
Color would be great if they had same quality otherwise
I could waste money on ratchet gun that will fail or just use a breaker bar. That will last a lifetime.
The Dt Swiss hubs are a much better design and way more durable. Their is a reason why lots of small wheel brands copied their ratchet system once their patent expired.
The DT hubs are having issues with cracking ratchets, and the 64 p.o.i. is terrible for reliably.
I chose the dt350 over the hopes simply because dt swiss parts are so much easier to get in SEA
Um, those are the old and discontinued 350s.
No. They are just black for OEM use.
@@Mapdec But the newer ones have part of the star ratchet threaded into the hub...the whole assembly doesn't slide out like the old ones.
New new 350s just have the new style machine but keep the same ratchet. The 240s etc have the new exp system you are seeing. You can upgrade the 350s to the exp system.
Stop messing around and get a set of Chris King hubs. The last ones you’ll have to buy
I look at all this and think where's the brand option that is heavier, is properly sealed from all sides and just has a grease gun nipple on it. It'd last an eternity and take 2 pumps of grease to service. Sure it's heavier but I don't care. Make it last. Lets go back to simpler times where things were cheaper and lasted longer.
Nothing else than DT Star Ratchet SL 54 - waste of time to discuss other options..
For a bigger/stronger rider, it's easier to strip a 54T ratchet. Ask me how I know and why I'm 18T.
@@sabamacx tell us your watts and the wheel modell 🦿
Hey, you got the pedal kickback and engagement backwards. The lower degree of rotation before engagement, the WORSE the pedal kickback effect will be. Also the labyrinth seal on the Hope hub seals the freehub to the hub shell. I doubt very little contamination of the freehub mechanism is occurring via the axle bearings.
Ahh. Thanks. I just noticed. There is a jump cut in the edit just there where I realised. I left the wrong bit in. 🙈