Network Rail’s re-signalling Disaster | The Farmer won the battle for a Manned Level Crossing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2021
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This is Crabley Creek signal box on the Hull to Selby railway, opening in 1840 after the act of parliament was passed in 1836.
In 2018 whilst Network Rail were updating and upgrading the line between Ferriby and Goole. The intention was to take the Steam Era Crabley Creek Signal Box out of use along with nine others along the route.
Then there was a problem, a big one that Network Rail didn’t realise and couldn’t fix!
The Farmer at Crabley Creek Farm said that it would be dangerous for him to move his livestock across the level crossing if it was not manned by a qualified signal man. Network Rail refused this and stated that automatic level crossings were indeed safe.
What Network Rail did not realise is that written deep in the deeds of the farm, is that back in 1836 when the act of parliament was passed is that the then farmer of Crabbley Creek Farm, demanded that the level crossing should always be manned as long as there is a farm crossing the railway. This was agreed in parliament and added to the act for the railway.
The £50m project to update signalling was completed - and nine signal boxes on a stretch between Gilberdyke to Goole were taken out of service after over a century of use.
Now fully automated and operated from the York Rail Operating Centre, known by signallers as York ROC, where controllers can monitor hundreds of trains from their computer screens - the railways equivalent of air traffic control.
The signallers from the closed boxes have been redeployed, or in some cases have retired, Network Rail stated that there have been no compulsory redundancies.
Down the nine-and-a-half-mile stretch, which includes part of the longest straight section of railway in the country, the semaphore system bells and clanking levers have fallen silent.
Crabley Creek signal box lives on and at 181 years old - remains in business, to serve Crabley creek Farm, isolated on the banks of the Humber, on the opposite side of the tracks.
A screech from an annunciator - rather than bells - signals that a train is coming, and the crossing should not be opened.
The upgrade forms part of the Great North Rail Project, which has seen six signal boxes close all over the region, also transferring signalling to York.
In 1948, there were over 10,000 signal boxes in the UK.
Now there are just 42 left in Yorkshire according to Network Rail. And the number continues to drop, due to advances in electronic control systems and communications technology.
How long will Crabley Creek signal box continue to be manned? Well, this is a question Network Rail do not know the answer to. During the re signalling scheme planners and designers consulted the farmer with several proposals, including a bridge. Unfortunately, sheep cannot be shepherded on to bridges very easily so this was refused.
An underpass brought a similar problem, inclines are not something sheep will undertake even with encouragement.
Network Rail even proposed to build the farmer a new farm on the other side of the railway, but due to the land being valuable for arable crop growing this was also turned down.
The decision to leave Crabley Creek as a manned signal box was not made until the final hour and Network Rail have committed signalling staff to continue to work there around the clock 365 days a year.
Network Rail Safety Advisor present during filming of track areas.
Credit Music by; thewilburproject.co.uk/
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It's so nice to hear the little man wins, what big industry has to realise the farming is one of the oldest professions and way of life there is and it should be recognised that way and respected!
Hello Lee, thanks for watching. The farmer sure was right :)
"Inclines are not something sheep will undertake, even with encouragement". What? I'm in NZ, and sheep wander all over the hills, no encouragement needed. If it's too steep for a cow they put sheep on it. Are there no sheep in Wales or the Scottish Highlands? - I've heard those places have 'inclines' too.
The farmer was having them on.
To be fair he probably had little expectation of them willingly honouring any proposal he agreed to at that point. They already tried to renege on their existing obligations under the existing act of parliament banking on the farmer lacking the knowledge of their legal rights and/or the financial resources to legally challenge them on it. What is to say they wouldn't simply neglect to make good on their agreement again forcing him/her to fight another long and expensive legal challenge when they default on the new agreement. I'd probably be inclined to rebuff their settlement proposals and just go for a permanent injunction to save having to relitigate later defaults with a party like this too. Especially considering that an SME is most definitely going to run out of funds to play the game of drag out the endless cyclical litigation before the agency with the £10 bn budget.
@@seraphina985 It would be easy for him to ensure they honoured their proposal. Just write into the agreement that the bridge (or whatever) must be completed and commissioned before the manned crossing is withdrawn.
I think you're right. I nearly spat out my coffee when I heard that line. Where I live in Ireland it is very hilly and covered in sheep! They love rough ground where Cows won't go.
@@GeneralThargor Yes but it is herding sheep which is a different issue.
It's like swimming - sheep can swim quite well, they just don't want to most of the time. With inclines - if it involves food, or to annoy the farmer then they're off over those slopes, be it hillsides, farmhouse roofs, the lot.
I am a developer and love automation, but the other side of me loves the signalboxes with the tradition. It's a crying shame they tore down such history.
Not to mention all signallers that lose there jobs
Network Rail: We don't want to keep paying some guy in a signal box, we want to get rid of that old technology.
Farmer: No.
Network Rail: But...
Farmer: No.
I'm glad this example of a working signal box on a mainline is gonna be kept around for many more years to come.
I was the last signal-man working Dundee Tay Bridge East signal-box. I belled signal-box closing and that was that. It was an emotional moment for me because it was treated so callously by the management. It was one of five signal-boxes, all closed during the same change at Dundee.
Hello there, it is a shame that signal boxes have to close, i was sad that the ones on this section of line closed. I remember my great uncle watching Hessle Haven box getting demolished in 1983, he had worked that box for many years. Dundee Tay Bridge is on my list of places to visit in the future. Thank you so much for watching and commenting :)
Wow, this might end up as an oddity in the years to come. It might become one of the last old school signal boxes left on Network Rail when all the other are long gone or mothballed.
I witnessed many Signal Boxes close from London to Cambridgeshire, still I've heard some stories of the railway lands being sold off in the privatisation years when I worked for the railways, only for NWR to have to pay rent to the land owners whom they sold the land to, for example one station in London they sold the land out front, the then owner would clamp vehicles on the land, including NWR who then ended up paying the owner money so they could park on the land doh
Yep privatisation was never the answer. Thank you for watching and commenting :)
@@ALWResearchTeam Privatisation was just a continuation of the asset-stripping that went wild after the Beeching clearances.
Classic. I think Philip green asset stripped Debenhams by selling all their properties and renting them back.
@@markmooch that’s a common tactic amongst failing companies, it’s a bid to buy time, but never works.
The whole purpose of this video was to show Crabley Creek level crossing was still manned by human beings, yet we never see any of the signal box staff performing their duties, The crossing gates are always shown closed..
Crabley creek staff feature in my other videos ;)
Because the farmer is the only one who uses that crossing. Why keep it open for just one farmer?
You haven't got a clue. Idiot.
Always amazed me how quickly NR could decommission a signal box. Sudforth Lane Box near Knottingley was integrated into Ferrybridge box back in 2014 I think. It took NR less than a night to make it disappear once the new panel was switched on. It was there at 1800 hrs and gone at 0600 hrs. All that remained was a concrete slab!
I have worked the signalling side of the decommissioning of these boxes and trust me, they have to be gone asap.
1) If left, someone with enough knowledge could fudge them to be relatively operational if any equipment is left (even disconnected). Extremely unlikely but could happen.
2) They're full of gear that is so niche that it is either a godsend spare for another signal box that has been in use in 120 years or (more likely) a fucking magnet for thieves. And I am not just talking scrap metal thieves, I am talking mega rail enthusiasts who want some of it for their own stash. These people are often ex-rail so feel very comfortable trackside, but this is a danger, so it is better to just have it gone as soon as possible.
3) Costs - maintaining them, paying land rents etc all add up, if the structure is gone, so are the costs.
4) Really sadly, if left up, un-homed people will use them as a sleeping place. Again, these are trackside buildings that have direct access to the lines. In an ideal world, they could be turned into habitable spaces, but they're close to the railway than housing is allowed to be built these days. Add to that, if left as is without signalling equipment, no one will visit for months or years at a time and so if anything happens to anyone in them, no one will know for a long time.
I've decommissioned about 20 of them in the past, sometimes a lot of the people who work/have worked in them get together for a little send off - especially if in a long term possession e.g. Nottingham 2012-13. A few glasses of fizz that the old timers bring (for them), some might be allowed a little memento of the box - a clock, the phone etc, a quick goodbye to a very special (to them) work place and then we get rolling. All gotta go and its better to be gone immediately under NR/contractor supervision than it is to remain a magnet for people, no matter how good or bad their intentions, to do that themselves over the next few months.
It's good that the farmer stood his ground on this case, I wonder if any of the old signal box equipment was saved, some of the heritage steam railways & preserved lines would have been glad of this stuff.
Hello Richie, I hope you’re well. The farmer certainly stood his ground and in doing so saved five jobs and made a story for me to tell lol.
Thanks for watching and commenting
Great video and interesting story.
It's nice to see a signal box, they are a part of railway history. Where I live there is still a signal box in the town, but the others that stood on the way out to the countryside are gone. Its a shame really, as I can remember them when I was young. If it's not broke, don't try to fix it...😀👍
Hello Eddie K, I’m sure the closed signal boxes will start to be demolished at some point. It will be a shame when they do go. This is one of the reasons that I film and photograph historical assets like these. Thank You very much for watching and commenting.
Network rail: So when exactly can we close this signal box?
The farmer: Thats the neat part... you can't
Fascinating little video Andy, had a look on Google earth and until you mentioned it never realised we had a track as long and straight in the UK. Keep 'em coming Andy - marvellous.
Hello there, I remember my great uncle telling me about the straight section of line in the 1980’s. First time I had seen it properly was with the drone. Thank you very much indeed:)
@@ALWResearchTeam I believe it has now lost the "record" but I can't remember where the longest section now is. I often go spotting at the places in the video and chat to the staff at Crabley :) Nice video.
Hello there, thank You for watching and commenting:)
Thanks for the video Andy, there have been a lot of level crossings closed in East Anglia
Hello Adrian. Thank you for watching and commenting.
The original farmer had good foresight.
Hello there. He certainly did indeed. Thank You for watching and commenting.
Now as an ex driver of this route I can tell you they did know of this at crably creek, it was a bone of contention for years, another thing about crably creek is that it was a block post but only had one signal and just broke the section up between Broomfleet and Brough east. Have you also seen how Broomfleet is propped up with a steel frame.
And my last bit of info is about green oak goit, goit means old English lake.
I think it may just be a gate box now and not part of a block section, then when it needs to be opened it will trigger the signalling accordingly. That straight section of line is 17miles by the way. All the time I drove this route I was never stopped for farm animals crossing in 17 years. The farmer is just being a pain. So much for last point lol.
Hello there. Yes broomfleet looked to be subsiding quite badly! I noticed that it had been underpinned and that it had moved a little more since the repairs.
I watched the farmer shepherd his sheep across the crossing on one occasion and I don’t think it would be possible with an automatic crossing.
I remember my uncle telling me about the longest section of straight line running along there.
It’s really interesting that you are a train driver. Thank you for watching and commenting
It's lovely to see when the "little man" successfully stand up to big companies. Remember, when push comes to shove, you can't eat an automated crossing, but you can eat what the farm produces.
How the mighty are fallen!! However, many such clauses in Acts of Parliament have sadly succumbed to modernity. In this case where animals are concerned, they cannot be trained into the modern methodology of our automatic lifestyles. They are an unknown quantity without special knowledge of their rightful handling, and do not behave by timetable, especially at to days train speeds.
In the Netherlands, they use the term, 'Polderen', in many instances farms have been relocated and lands have been transferred between different farmers for such reasons...
Although in cases where the farmers refuse, ProRail just put some concrete blocks in front of the AHOB-less crossings to close them off completely.
Money is not the answer to everything. Network Rail should have performed due diligence which they clearly did not bother with. The farmer is NOT a Luddite nor Stubborn, he is just the victim of faceless pen pushers. Thanks for this video that educates us on what happens to innocent individuals.
This is indeed the fact of life. The farmer has done nothing wrong. Thank you for watching and commenting.
Plus it's a good signaling number. My buddy works at Dinting box one of the last Mechanical boxes in South East Manchester.
True, pen pushers behind desks in expensive suites who know it all, titular gods
A CCTV level crossing is the obvious answer. It's manned, but remotely. It's only a matter of programming to remove the auto lower sequence of the initiation to safeguard livestock movements.
In those pen pusher minds it's about saving money. Likely they get a bonus too for "saving money" even tho in truth that amounts to little or nothing. Fools.
I wonder why almost every crossing here is diagonally.
A clean straight angle is so much easier to view to both side.
Only some 2 years ago a major fatal accident happened to finnish conscripts, in great part due to the bad viewing angle at a diagonal crossing.
Hello there. It’s terribly sad that serious accidents happen between railways and the public
Given that the farm predated the rail system and has such a small size, it looks like there wouldn’t have been space to reposition the road for a perpendicular crossing.
@@davegoesthedistance Looking at the aerial view I would say the opposite was true. The road looks like it's been re-routed at the time the railway was constructed in order to create a diagonal crossing. You can see that it originally would have carried straight on through the farm. There are now later buildings built on top of its original route, but you can still see the line of it coming out of the other side of the farmyard.
Oh wow that was really a great video, interesting story. Awesome video, thanks for making and uploading it 👍
Hey Tech Tier, thank you very much indeed:)
@@ALWResearchTeam oh wow congratulations, ive just noticed you have over 100k views on this video - that is truly awesome
@@TechTier_ Thanks so much Tech, it has truly blown me away how successful this video has been. Two years hard work is starting to pay off
My first rostered signal box was at Epping and yes it closed in the early nineties along with all other Central line boxes. It’s now been restored to its former glory and is a museum!
Hello there, thats great information and news :)
Wow, this video is superb ALW. Really appreciate all your research, voiceovers, great shots and so well edited. Crossings make me nervous, I live very close to Ufton Nervet where there was sadly a famous train crossing disaster in 2004 but it took Network Rail until 2015 to complete a new bridge!! Really glad the farmer stuck to his guns in this case. Thanks ALW!
Hello IceyDiamond. Thank you. This video took a couple of months of filming different locations to make. The drone did 25km of flights for the aerial footage. Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
The biggest killer on British rails are level crossings.
@@ALWResearchTeam Can really tell you worked so hard on it, it was definitely worth 2 months work. Really high quality documentary. Wow 25km!
So, crossings make you nervous, and Network Rail took too long to build a bridge at Ufton Nervet BUT you think this farmer who wants a crossing and turned down a bridge was right? That makes no sense whatever.
@@cr10001 I was put on planet Earth to confuse people 👌🏻😂🚝
@@iceydiamond9992 Evidently :)
Can’t be shut, I love it! Some where in an office a ‘suite’ has steam coming out of his ears 😁
Oh yes.
0:58 That is a mesmerising shot. Bravo sir!
And whilst we're about it,
5:18 is a perfectly timed drone and DMU synchronisation.
Thanks :)
I very much like the UK style of crossing barriers protecting both lanes of a roadway on each side of the tracks. Here in the USA, I do not recall ever seeing such a type of crossing. Our barrier arms drop and protect only the active lane on each side. Of course, there are impatient motorists who foolishly drive around the arms. Many have been struck and killed. I believe the UK system is superior in this way.
Crossroads / Level crossings are the most dangerous part of uk railways unfortunately. The modern design of barrier is not as good as the old gate method in my opinion. Thanks for watching and commenting :)
the thing i would worry about is that gates work both ways; if you block all the lanes you're blocking stuck cars from escaping too. the video shows a clip and it looks like the inactive lane closes after a delay, so that would partially mitigate it, but idk. probably better but def has a downside
We have them here in NC on the busier non divided roads Especially along the NC Railroad that supports local Amtrak service
We have half barrier crossings in the UK too, these are fully automatic, activated by approaching trains, but generally only used on quieter roads. Crossings with full barriers must be manually controlled, albeit increasingly (as in this video) they are controlled remotely, using CCTV or radar for the signalman to check the crossing is clear.
My sheep are quite happy going up and down ramps so can’t see why they would have problems with a bridge.
Good to see the the box preserved though,I don’t like to see railway history disappear. 👍
Hello there, thanks for watching and commenting :)
Thanks for the info Andy...well done on the views on this one too! 👍 good one mate
Hi Lewis, thank you very much. I had no idea it would have done so well.
Varied interesting content as usual 👍.
I detect a series here "every disused signal box" .
Now that would be good. Unfortunately they’re all on railway land that I can’t enter.
It's heartwarming to see that a small fry can still stick it to the man occasionally.
Absolutely. Thank you so much for watching and commenting
What a fab video Andy so glad perseverance pays off & the signal box stays & be manned around the clock. Those other signal boxes shown are part of the history of the railway so they should stay put. Although I don't have much hope they will. Great footage of the trains & crossings & the drone footage. ❤😊👍
Glad you enjoyed it Carol. It sure has been a busy crossing box at Crabley Creek
Funny as hell.
Makes me want to go and practise archery at my local park next Sunday. Don't worry I'll be sure to wear green. 😂😂
Hi Simon. Not a single clue what you’re on about
@@ALWResearchTeam he's referring to an ancient law where men are expected to practice archery every Sunday
Ah ok. I was a bit confused by Simons comment lol 😂.
John, thanks for clarifying:)
@@ALWResearchTeam John is right. I was making reference to how old laws/legislations can still make something legal or obligatory even today. Such as the case in the video with the manned crossing. The ancient law of being able to practice archery at the local park on Sundays, as long as you wear green. And the fact that it's still illegal for women to wear lipstick at a shipping port etc.
I know there are some urban legends out there too, but I found the case in your video rather amusing.
Ah ha. You lost me on that one 😀
"No compulsory redundancies" , note the word "compulsory" .
In other words, the offer was, move to a cubicle in our control centre a hundred miles away, or resign.
A valid point. Any big company will say that's a fair deal. Thanks for watching and commenting
@@ALWResearchTeam sad sign of the times I suppose. What work is there for a career signal man? Apart from signalling.
Hopefully they all mostly did ok out of it, got their pensions and what not.
@@Nbomber " What work is there for a career signal man? " Ditto for a steam loco driver or fireman. Or driver of a stage coach or canal boat horse leader. Careers are inventions of man, not man for careers.
Very Very interesting, thank you for this
Thank You for watching and commenting
The problem comes when livestock start to wander up the track, this wasn't a problem with the gates that closed across the tracks and road
Hello there, yes this was a problem highlighted by the farmer, even a manned crossing with automatic (raising) type gats present their own unique danger. The gates fitted are manual and cross the railway when opened to farm traffic. Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Is that the set of little pyramids?
Given how long it takes to get a significant amount of animals to go from one place to another, i really don't see how this makes any difference. The farmer would need to know in advance what the traffic timetable was going to be at the crossing before starting to move anything, so as to know when it was possible to do it; getting the barriers down in the middle of a herd wouldn't be easy, especially if they have to come down together, and the waiting animals aren't going to patiently stand still. The signalman could be replaced with a phonecall.
Well that’s why the signal box is there, because the farmer contacts the box and the box puts the signals to danger until the farmer rings again and tells the box the line is clear…
How can you replace a signalman with a phone call? When you pick up a level crossing phone.. who answers it? Yes, a signaller 🤦🏻♀️
And then what, they will let trains wait amd mess with all the time tables just for some sheep? Surely not nowadays
@@clairecalder6530 replacing signalman at the junction in the box with a call to a counterpart person/representative at the operations place when remote signals are monitored. Do you think the train network's timetables are changed to suit the farmer, or that the farmer has to work around the timetable?
@@chrisdavidson911 when you pick up a phone at the crossing to ask if it’s safe to cross, you are talking to the signaller in the signal box to the area you are in, unless of course it’s one of network rails disastrous massive signalling centre! So at the phone, the farmer would speak with the signaller and give him or her the information needed and ask if it’s safe to cross…
So hire the farmer for a token fee (so insurance etc. are covered), train him to operate things and let him open the gates as necessary.
The Union would fight that tooth & nail
Farmer would be crazy if he accepted that solution. Suddenly he has to be on the lookout 24/7 for the mailman, delivery companies and other folks who will drop by his farm without an appointment.
@@Aviertje LOL, mailmen and deliverymen come in the middle of the night? All he would have to do is move his mailbox (and maybe a package drop box) to the other side of the track; it would still be on his property. And as for folks dropping by without appointment, they run the same risk of nobody being home as they ever would.
Network rail should probably just remove the level crossing. Those are ridiculously dangerous.
Sounds a lot like a user worked crossing to me...
Which on that note, come with a whole set of problems themselves!
took many pictures over a few wet winter weekends back on the late 1980's of Gilberdyke loosing its 4 tracks :(
Yes that was a sad time. No real reason for it either as the land will never be re used.
The lines are busy and there is no time for maintenance now.
Interesting that there are so many level crossings on a two track line. Level crossing have safety issues with high speed trains. I am surprised they have not gone around changing them all to under/overpasses.
Network Rail have a program of level crossing closures. Its not always possible to acquire enough approach land to construct bridges etc
You need the swing gates to block off the railway to the livestock passing over the railway, which automated vertical barrier do not do.
Bridges, Underpasses, and other additional infrastructure Network Rail were offering - all takes up valuable land, which you know they will not pay market rates for.
I'm assuming there will be a clause in the original act of Parliament which removes the rail route across the farm if the signaller is removed from the crossing.
Good to see an old Signal Box with a new lease on life. Sad that it doesn't actually control trains anymore, but saving a few jobs is always a plus.
I do wonder why can't the old boxes be a regional rest stop for the employees or even for the public services, there's always use for these kind of structures...
Interesting video. It is surprising that Network Rail didn't replace the manual gates with the modern type, even if they linked it to buttons/levers within the box, so as to standardise parts.
That’s a very valid point. Thanks for watching and commenting
and fun part is those gates can be made automatic as well, there are motors that can swing those gates open or closed these days
After the next solar coronal mass emission the only signalling that will work will be the sort that uses levers, cables, rods, pulleys and oil lamps. Modern centralised systems have no resilience. The whole of the Gothenburg tram system went down for six hours recently because of one little fault.
well unless you makes redundancies and radiation harden or radiation shield these crititical compontents, like perhaps the japanese do on their HSR- but if you are just looking to cut costs? nah.
My dad was a track man on this stretch of rail and this signal box had an earthy nick name among the rail gang and others..
“Shitty Alley”
Cool video awesome info as usual hope you are well buddy 👍
Hello Marcus, great to see you buddy. Thanks very much.
wow thanks for sharing this content amazing facts at the cost of Network Rail
That must have been a cast-iron clause in the original paperwork for something like a CCTV crossing not to be acceptable as a modern equivalent!
Sounds like it can only be undone by an act of parliament. Legal bills would be more than the signal box wages. :o) (probably already are)
@@teamidris Frankly if they are that is Network Rail's fault for apparently cutting corners with their due diligence. Standard due diligence on a large scale investment proposal like this would include a compliance review. Basically having legal look over it and check it for compliance with any applicable case law, easement limitations, statutes or bylaws (regulations) and report on any conflicts and options for resolution. There is no excuse for pulling a surprised Pikachu face here they should have known they needed to negotiate a solution to satisfy the conflict long before any formal complain needed to be logged.
Honestly I would not blame the farmer if the fact they instead went ahead with attempting to push it through behind his back soured any willingness to take a conciliatory approach to their later efforts at negotiation. It doesn't exactly bode well when ones negotiating partner is acting evasive, deceitful or otherwise not forthcoming prior to or during negotiations. That sort of behaviour taints any proposals they table later especially since in this case they showed a clear willingness to casually renege on their legal obligations at least once already.
Personally I would be put off by the fact that the could simply renege on any agreed compromise and leave me looking at yet another legal battle over the breach of contract later. As an SME myself I wouldn't rate my chances of them not defaulting on their legal obligations to me if they are willing to take their chances flaunting their legal obligation to HM Government they have way more legal clout than I do.
maybe if they elevated the tracks the farmer might be more inclined? *winkwink *
@@PrograError Noooooooo :o)
Worked this box and a few more on this line on redundancy for almost three years until Crabley was downgraded to a crossing box and the rest were closed. Have worked a lot of boxes in North Lincs. too. Got to say this is probably the worst one I've ever worked, especially during harvest time.
Hello there. It is a surprisingly busy crossing indeed. Thank you so much for watching and commenting. It is incredibly interesting to hear from former staff :)
Really interesting, nice one 👌
Thank you very much
I believe Network Rail will just put in a new road bridge or other to circumvent the old law.
Either way, I hope some of this lovely boxes are preserved, they could find a home on many heritage railways lacking one.
So... maybe I missed this part, but what does having a manned gate station do for the farm? Are they supposed to stop the trains when they are moving animals across the tracks or something? If the gates still come down when a train is coming, how does, or doesn't that help the farmer?
Hello there, the manned crossing is for the livestock and large farming machinery. The sheep are plentiful and would not adhere to an automated crossing th-cam.com/users/shortsv9L4WXr7X94?feature=share
@@ALWResearchTeam ok, but what does automatic vs manual gates have to do with anything? Do the operators stop rail traffic if sheep or equipment isn't clear?
Yes. If the crossing is in use the signals are at danger. Automated crossings should also do this but can fail on occasion. Thanks for watching and commenting
Very interesting video,I like an informative railway video.
Thank you
Cracking video as usual, one of my favourite spots for railway photo's is Crabley Creek.
Hello Andy, it sure is a little gem of a place
Pity you didn't get chance to speak to the signal controller. Interesting report thanks.
Very interesting conundrum indeed!👍☘️
Thanks for watching and commenting
nice to see something positive on the railway. in Kent they have automatic crossings now at chartham nr canterbury and wye nr Ashford sadly a petition on both fell on deaf ears the signal box at chartham is not going to be demolished and the one at wye has been out of use for some years and is sadly slowly decaying
Set to .50 playback speed and the music sounds perfect
You can always tell a farmer from Yorkshire- but you can't tell him much.
It reminds me of an episode of 'To the Manor Born.
It's always great to see an individual humble a monolithic and bloated bureaucracy that has no grasp of reality.
Hello there, Thank you very much for watching and commenting. So is the Farmer Audrey and Network Rail Richard? 😀
@@ALWResearchTeam I'm sure she is. Audrey loves the railways, even if she doesn't use them very much.
Sheep do navigate inclines, they graze up hills and down hills so that farmer was trying to pull a fast one
I asked him this and there are three groups of sheep breeds. Hill, upland and lowland. Hill and upland can go up hills. Lowland sheep can’t/won’t and don’t have the strength for hills.
@@ALWResearchTeam He's still having you on. How does he get them into a truck to send them off to the slaughterhouse?
They actually offered to build him a bridge and he turned it down. Just being awkward because he could.
I guess he was trying to pull the wool over their eyes!
@@cr10001 exactly. It's an underpass incline of around 20 feet in height at most over 100ft run. If a sheep can't climb 20 feet it's because it's mutton.
There's plenty of undulating terrain in lowland areas, and you don't need to build a narrow ramp down to the underpass, just excavate a gentle incline either side of the tracks, with a decent width underpass. Chances are if the fields on either side were joined by the underpass with no fences across the underpass itself, the sheep might naturally saunter through. I also doubt the farm would be unviable if a field was taken out of service for a season.
Surely the solution would be to build a flyover for the trains, or alternatively an underpass?
In France the TGV tracks are by no means flat, and trains there run at double the speed of this line in Yorkshire.
NER is a lot behind the TGV network. Thanks for watching and commenting :)
I can understand the farmer not wanting an automatic crossing, given that sheep don't understand warning lights. But I've have thought the gates could be operated remotely, with video surveillance and signal protection while they're open for the farmer. Trains might get delayed occasionally, but there'd be no safety hazard. Such an approach is used elsewhere on the network.
a CCTV is no match for the power of eyes...
@@PrograError Easy enough to see that the gates are closed, and no sheep on on the track.
@@sylviaelse5086 Is it? That one operator managing that intersection will obviously also end up looking at other intersections, because the technology allowing that is the entire reason they invest so much: they want more bang out of the buck they pay signalers. I think for a farmer dealing with the livestock that is the source of his income, the thought of a distracted signaler or being told to wait his turn as he calls in for service on that crossing is completely unacceptable.
He has a legal right to have a signaler on location (I bet the original farmer back then had to make concessions for politicians to agree to that!) so he'd be crazy to just let go of that right. The moment you stop exercising the right, many places in the world consider such rights lost.
Thumbs up.Enjoyable vid.
Thanks
Thanks for watching and commenting:)
There is no way the cost of a bridge, underpass or a farm is less that a manned signal box
I mean, I suppose Network Rail could have built a tunnel for their tracks. I mean, expensive, sure, but just put it as a line item in HS2 and no one will notice! :)
Im all for railways but HS2 Wow thats going to be expensive! Thank you so much for watching and commenting :)
If they just build a cut and cover trench it'll be expensive but not as expensive as most tunnels
Really cool insight !
Hello there. Thank you very much :)
What a waste of money for Network Rail for not checking the paperwork in law first.
The automated subtitles say that the signal box is located between Therapy and Google! Can't seem to find either of them them on my old map of the East Riding.....
Ferriby and Goole lol. Google auto transcript is a little off sometimes
Our local signalbox was demolished a couple month back, shame to have seen it removed
Yes it’s sad when history is deleted in such a way. Thanks for watching and commenting
Network Rail could have simply changed that crossing to one that is user-worked, where the farmer himself would be the one responsible for opening and shutting the gates.
A computer cannot see livestock on the line and it would be impertinent to expect the animals to behave like human beings when crossing the line, therefore a human would be needed to mitigate such a disaster and the box needs to remain staffed, while a farm remains in place.
Congratulations on the views dude 🤟🤟🤟🤙🤙🤙
Thank You very much indeed Kurt. It has really helped in very a difficult time
cool video. would of been nice to see you speak to some of the guys inside
Good video bud thanks
Hello there Markurbex:)
6:00 the hope Valley Sheffield to Manchester main line still has semaphore and signal boxes
beautiful
The closed Woodhead Line was electrified but still had lots of old signal-boxes and manned crossings whose expense helped to justify its closure.
@@None-zc5vg still a much missed line and its class 76 tommies too
@@None-zc5vg a much missed line and its class 76 s too
Many railway lines have an underpass constructed for farm use.
They sure do :)
This ones too near the water table unfortunately. Thanks for watching and commenting
Those unused huts would make some posh tiny houses.
Hello there. Yes they certainly would! I love the architecture or the steam age. Thanks for watching and commenting:)
This bloke showed great enthusiasm didn't he? Good on the farmer that stood up to a multi-million pound organisation.
Hello there, thank you very much
I am not familiar with many of the differences between the railroads in the UK and the ones in the US, where I have lived most of my life. When the phrase Signal Box was used, I didn't know it was a building where people worked. What does the person do who mans the box? Does he rely on telephones and radios? I assume he can control the crossing gates without running down the stairs every time a train approaches. And if the sheep are nearby, does he go out and shoo them away from the tracks? I would love to hear what his day is like.
Hello there!
A signalman watches as a train or trains are signalled to the up & dn lines to observe and act when needed under the box instructions, the gates are always across The rd way till a vehicle needs to cross over in which case the signalman if there is no trains will place his signals to danger and open the gates by going dn the stairs for every swing, In the uk the railways have boundry fences where there is a risk of trespass and or livestock live and breed, There is rules & regulations for the signalman to act upon if there are sheep on the line of any obstructions. I hope this answers your questions:) 🇺🇸
That's a dispatcher to you.
Very informative presentation, I wasn't aware of this situation, you learn something new every day!
All the live cams, can't show what a person on the ground at site, can see with their own eyes.
Indeed. Human intervention
You are well behind the times, as obstruction detection systems will often be favoured instead of cameras these days.
Great outcome. Network Rail are going to wish they'd kept all their old, reliable signal boxes in the event of hostile cyber attacks.
That really is a future possibility. Thanks for watching and commenting
Unlike other industries the signalling system is a totally isolated system for that reason. Each interlocking has its own unique digital code as well so even going trackside and trying to break in would be very difficult. As soon as an attempt is made the interlocking monitoring would set all signals to danger
I live in North Ferriby, on this line, I daily use the Melton crossing for my commute. Please don't judge but I'm almost always on a pushbike, and filter through to the front when the barrier is in use, so I always get a ringside view when there is an issue :)
It's been a significant _downgrade_ since the automation. A lack of an operator on the spot, is a direct cause of frequent operational issues of the barrier/signalling equipment, leading to train stoppages, large amounts of traffic congestion. The morning and evening shift change barrier cockups have to be seen to be believed.
I do not feel safer using this crossing, knowing a button pusher miles away in York, looking at a Monitor, is trying to figure out what's going on, (and frequently getting it wrong, and just hitting that big old red emergency stop everything button).
Gilberdyke Junction box was demolished as well as Saltmarshe. Surprised NR didn't pull the rest of them down like they usually do elsewhere.
Hello there. Gilberdyke junction box was still present the other week when I filmed it. Not sure on its future fate. Salt marsh was demolished as it was a hazard to road traffic (large farm machinery)
@@ALWResearchTeam I thought I read somewhere that they pulled Gilberdyke down, I stand corrected!
what would happen if a farm trailer full of hay got stuck on a crossing???
If it was automated the system has scanners and cctv which should alert the ROC. There was a fatal accident at Hixon in 1968. One of the first automated level crossings where a police escorted lorry was crossing a automated level crossing, a train approached and the barriers lowered onto the lorry trailer, partially trapping it. seconds later it was struck by an express train. Eleven people died. British Rail blamed the lorry driver and haulage firm. It is because of incidents like this the Farmer does not want an automated crossing for his lowland sheep.
Perhaps make the best of it and use it for training and experimentation. Round my way the (not really) travelling folk have been known to crash through closed level crossing barriers when purused by flashing blue lights
Show me the sheep, George.
I wanna see the sheep, George.
I wanna pet the sheep, George.
Where are the sheep?
You said there would be sheep here, George, but I don't see any sheep.
I want to know the names of these sheep, George.
Please bring me the sheep.
The farmer said no. 🐑
Is that quote from a Bugs Bunny cartoon?
Even if it closed I would think that the farmer would buy and save the signalbox
Didn't they ever think of a semi automated system? A system where the farm could manually operate the crossing whilst talking to network rail on the phone when they move livestock. Automation could then be used the rest of the time.
Yes absolutely. However the farmer isn’t interested or wants anything to do with the railway. He sees it as not his problem or concern.
Thanks for watching and commenting
@@ALWResearchTeam The farmer isn't wrong. I doubt he wants any part of that liability!
@@ALWResearchTeam I do not think there were diesel or petrol engine driven tractors when the crossing was first built. Let's see the farmer going back to horse-drawn ploughs!
If some of these signal boxes were over here in the US I guarantee you a good number would have literally been moved from where they were sitting so they could be saved because there's a few examples I've said towers that have been relocated so that they could be preserved
A fair few have but it means people have to pay NR to have removed. Only those with money can do that, cheaper to rip them down.
@@UkSapyy the least they could do is try and save the old interlocking machines and signals for Heritage Railways so that they have a spare Parts Source
The whole network depends utterly upon a constant availability of electricity. All the eggs in one basket!
Why is a person in a small building pulling levers considered safer than a person in a building pressing buttons?
This is what Network Rail think too. It’s the system that has been put in place. Thanks for watching and commenting
Thats the thing though, no one presses buttons, its all automated. So no need to pay someone 50k a year to sit in a box and signal 10 tpd :)
Good, love it!
I'm surprised they didn't just say well we did what we can tough, gonna just close the crossing entirely
I wouldn’t put it past them
If the level crossing is mentioned in the Act of Parliament then the road was there first.
Strange! In the Lake District sheep climb up nearly vertical inclines.
Hello there, the sheep at crabley are lowland sheep, a different breed to ones found in hilly and mountainous areas. The sheep found on hills are hill sheep and mountains are upland sheep www.nationalsheep.org.uk/uk-sheep-industry/sheep-in-the-uk/the-uk-sheep-industry/
Thanks for watching and commenting
All sheep can climb if you don't want them to. 😃😂
Build an under- or overpass…problem solved !
How do Farmers and Shepherds in the mountains ?
Not sure. I don’t have any sheep 🐑 :)
@@ALWResearchTeam I expect his sheep are lowland varieties which do not know what a hill looks like.
Regards from Redruth
Arnold
@@amazonianm8876 They;d shift with a bossy Border Collie snapping at their back legs
Where can I apply for that signal job. Sounds like a sweet gig
Hello there, thank you for watching and commenting. I believe life as a signaller is a good career choice.
Quite sad to see these old signal boxes slowly being taken out of use really. 😔
It is in reality
If its in the act of Parliament that the box is manned then that's the way its got to stay. They can't change that without another act of parliament modifying the first act. Which to be honest would be a waste of the precious little time they have to pass laws now a days.