This last week I've had a Benelli TRK 702 on load from the importer Moto GB. I was comparing it to my Moto Morini X-Cape which I've been riding the last few years.
Bought the 702x, can seriously not fault it for quality and value at the price, centre stand, hugger, top box rack, front fender extender, illuminated switchgear, 30 ltr tank, wired for heated seat and grips, and then they throw in £1200 worth of good quality luggage with liners, pulls well and smooth
If the seat & grips are wired, can they be activated, optioned,or is it only accessible through an ecu remap ?? Also thought it sad that we can't get the front 'dash-cam' for the UK market.
I've turned 62 and after 46 motorcycles since I was 15 this is the last ("Yeah, right" says the Mrs). This one compares so well against others I've owned. NZ roads are deplorable and she soaks it up, and the range is staggering. I fitted a couple of LED spots and with the low seat on it, I'm happy as Larry
Absolutely cracking review . Properly honest down to earth . Been waiting for this bike since my first trk502x in 2018 . This past year I have been riding a 2016 1200GS and all the time been thinking there has to be a better option without spending over £10k . Yes I did look at the 750gs which my local dealership were very , very keen to sell me specced up to the hilt . The price of that bike was nigh on double the price of the 702x and I have since found out that most of 750gs is built in china , most definitely the engine is . They do seem to be in short supply so come on Moto GB who are the importers get it sorted please as I Want One!!
I rode my CB500X down to the dealer where I’d ordered my Voge 300 Rally from to have a new rear tyre fitted. The tyre hadn’t arrive when I arrived so to keep me occupied the owner suggested a test ride on the Voge 525. I liked the Voge. It has an awful lot in common with the 500X and you could see that it was built as a direct competitor. From a price point of view there was no comparison, the Voge was fantastic value for money and I would recommend that anyone looking for a bike in that part of the market place took a good look at one. But… I got back on my Honda and rode home. I know it’s subjective but the Honda felt better to ride, just that much better to touch, feel and use. And the 500X is a bike from Taiwan not China so not far from a Chinese bike itself. At the end of the day I was quite pleased; during the test ride I was thinking that perhaps I wanted the new Voge but at the end of the day there was no way I was going to swap now. When I come to replacing the 500X, perhaps. On that note I won’t be ‘upgrading’ from the 500X. I thought that the new Transalp might be a temptation too far but at the end of the day what the 500 provides is what makes it so good. Little details like I’d rather keep the fantastic fuel economy than end up with yet another bike that would be too quick to reach the legal limits and beyond. For me and the touring that I do 500X is the best bike I’ve ever owned, the low purchase price and real world ability to average over 90 mpg are simply the icing on the cake.
Great feedback on the 525 Dave and glad it's cemented your original buying purchase! As you say, the 500x does everything well and the difference in fuel usage really adds up doesn't it on a bigger bike. I know travelling on the 300 voge seemed to cost buttons compared to travelling on the Morini. Not tempted by the NX?
I have a 2021 cb500x and I love the bike, but when I have a passanger and luggages it's hard to overtake.. But the quality is awesome and I love how it looks after I've made a lot of mods on it...
I have the 702X and for the price it is unbeatable, not to forget the £1200 worth of free luggage at the moment. It also has a tracker fitted as standard :)
This isn't for me personally, bulky front end off-putting but then I'm finished with bigger bikes. If it helps to realign the Japanese manufacturers to making better value and simpler machines then I'm all for it.
If u think about it, most known brand name companies that manufacture anything from any electronics, cars, motorcycles etc…. Either have parts coming from China or are assembled elsewhere from their respective country of origin.
What a great review, have had a Himalayan 411 for four years and on the cusp of getting a slightly bigger bike. I loved the perspective of the review and the real world relevance of how it rides. Will definitely look at this. Thanks 👊
Good honest review 👍 I’ve always stuck with Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki over the years. Saw a Benelli TRK502 and was quite impressed. For me probably too under powered so I started looking at the TRK 702. For the price you seem to get a lot of bike for the money. Not bitten the bullet yet but your review I found very informative which will help me when I start going to have a look at the bikes at a local dealer 👍
I'm not in the market for a bike at present as my VStrom 650 is still serving me perfectly, but the TRK702 really caught my eye at Motorcycle Live and a quick sit felt really good and I liked the quality of the whole package.
Another great review Nathan. The weight comments really resonated with me. Happy with my Voge 300 Rally. Can go anywhere and don't have to overthink things.
Proper review thanks Nathan, none of the others do anything like as good a job talking about the sorts of things to think about when considering whether to buy a particular bike. The 450MT is going to be very interesting when we get that for sure, I think I'm going to be tempted by that. Never bought a new bike in my life though and only ever self service, insurance is high on a new bike so we'll see...
Nice comprehensive talk and good industry analysis with a lot of bikes Nathan. I don't know if you have it in the works but a detailed comparison dedicated between the Moto Morini X-Cape 649 and Benelli TRK 702 would be really useful for us who are waiting to see that yet on TH-cam.
Great honest video. So true about buying the bike you need. The cafe I go to has a cambered car park and the amount of times I have seen riders struggle with huge bikes. They do not look like they are enjoying their riding experience. Looking forward to the truimph 400x
Not my type of bike and came upon your review by accident on utube. Started to watch it as a friend just bought one. Wow. No politics just a good honest clear and informative review of the bike. Excellent and kept my interest for the whole 26 mins when normally I get bored after about 10 mins. Will be subscribing and look forward to more reviews.
A great review, honest without fear, nor favour. I bought a Benelli 502 in 2021 which I used for a year to get back into biking. My only criticism was that it was heavy and the 47 BHP engine struggled to perform as a result. It was a tiring bike to ride over long distances. I returned it to the supplying dealer after a years use, who sold it within a couple of days to a new owner. I wanted a Bigger Benelli and waited for the 800 TRK that never materialised. In the end I bought an Aprilia Tuareg 660 which was a lot more money than the TRK 702. (Which was not at the time available to buy.) In a nutshell, I completely agree with the direction of your review, the Europeans and Japanese can no longer rest on their past achievements to continue selling bikes. The Chinese bikes are likely to last just as long as anything else, whatever the resale values are in the future, eventually if you keep a bike for five years, you will have had your money's worth and you could give it away and not feel hard done by.
Well put together as usual Mr Millward. I personally don't buy new so i'd be happy with a 2-3 year old competitor (like my KTM 790 adventure) which would beat it on most counts & still hold some value second hand. I'm sure PK would buy the number plate from you😀
Really good open minded review Nathan. Some interesting points with the weight / manoeuvrability of bikes and also the power, and how much people actually need. I saw a couple of these at a dealership the other day, and quality wise they seem to look very good and with what you’re saying, the ride seems to match
Good detailed review. Well done. Not a bike for me, but anyone that simply has to buy new, and is on a low purchase outright budget, could probably be interested.
Great video Nathan Showing us what is really out there Nice looking bike, with a great price with luggage Think this will sell well for the new adventure rider We are considering selling our bikes and going back to pillion riding Santander ferry is £1100 + in July and its getting beyond us Maybe a demo ride will make our decision The downside is the servicing intervals The weight maybe an issue but it's how it feels that's important Don't think it will be long before the Chinese bikes take a bigger slice of the market Got a feeling your going to have one on the fleet 😂
Fantastic review ,,,,,, the Chinese bikes have come along way when considering all the bits they're giving you on them back light slipper clutch led lighting the list is endless. The big five manufacturers out cant offer you that unless your paying through the nose and only buy it as extra if they even do it all about bleeding you dry i for one am glad they are doing it because it will wake them up to people, will no longer stand to have the piss taken out of them. Great review by the way keep it up . Safe riding 👍👌
Words of wisdom! We tested a red X-Cape last year. Beautiful (like my old 350 sport) well made, comfortable - amazing kit for the money. Handled, stopped, but DIDN'T go! Even the wife complained about the dangerous lack of go for overtakes. Massive shame, as I was really tempted - for 1st time ever by Chinese stuff. The considerable weight and beautiful body work meant it wouldn't be used off road as the top heavy feel would likely lead to picking it up off some boulders - too much emotional and physical stress for an old pensioner like me! Watching this about the 702 it sounds like perfect solution & exactly what 'Morini' should have done with their version of the ER6. Can't get on with the bulbous BMW like front end which looks like a bitch to get off to get at anything (aren't they all nowadays. Will get test ride & try to get past the looks. Thanks.
Very good review thanks a lot I've just ordered a 702x for March delivery as I've had the 502x for the last 7 month and done 5k on it and it's been as good as gold not missed a beat hopefully the 702 is as good ready for the nc500
Some wise words in thre Nathan, especially on size and power of bike. Good comprehensive revue and advice👌 The Chinese are coming big time for bikes and cars
Very informative. Great overview of where industry is at. The Chinese are better strategists now than the Japanese but they still hurry production along at a rate of knots. Not sure they will ever produce something as well made as a Pan or a vfr but maybe they will. Not sure we are offered the luggage here in Ireland but will investigate. Thanks very much
That's it you have said it , as good as Japanese. The day had to arrive and i sort of new it would be this bike. So many people have been waiting for this to arrive and its impressive, shame we cannot get enough of them , what does that tell you... well done benelli. 👏
and this of course is the traditional issue with many Chinese sourced bikes because the lower ticket price means somethings been cut somewhere. The trick is to make the customer think it hasn't until after they've handed over the money.
The majority of stuff is made in China nowadays so don’t think because it has bmw badge or Honda or Bentley that there not parts on from China these bike are excellent value for money and brilliant reviews you’ll pay just as much for a high end push bike buy 1 and enjoy 👍❤️
I have speaking to owners of benelli motorcycles recently and almost every owner I’ve spoken to speaks so highly of the bikes. I was impressed in my review of the TRK 502 x
Great review, I won’t be buying this bike but I do like it. It’s good to hear an honest review of a bike that includes the issues regarding service plans vs warranty, costs vs image and functionality and not least the socio political issues that surround buying a Chinese bike (whichever side of the fence we sit). Honest and valuable review. Thank you.
Great vlog, fabulous insights without any corporate bs or ego-based drivel. Classic Nathan........the goat(as my teenage sons inform me is the appropriate saying!!). Thanks Nathan, keep smilin', chap.
I had a 502 and loved how it looked. My issues were its top heavy, the brakes weren’t very good and it was too slow. Great beginner bike and a super price.
I've just been on the trk owners forum and there's people on there who have gone from 502 to 702 who are saying the bigger bike actually feels less too heavy. It's a while since I rode a 502 but I can imagine that could well be the case as the 702 didn't feel overly top heavy. Obviously the engine must carry it's weight differently
I have had EXACTLY the same experience. with the 502 I bought to return to motorcycling after 20 years away. Yes, I agree with you right down to the last letter of your comment! I now have an Aprilia 660 Tuareg and that was "WELL, worth" the extra asking price, given the quantum leap up in capabilities. In it's purest terms, the Aprilia is a one man operation to pick up when it falls over, the Benelli was not quite so easy. Benelli will I'm sure, continue to keep their value for money and reliability at it's exceptional level, but they will need to shave 30 to 40 kilos off of these things if they are wanting to challenge the established top manufacturers.
@@speedfinder1 I spent 5 days riding around Scotland. Loved every second of it, but realised like yourself after a spell away from bikes that you need more power when carrying full luggage. It just didn’t deliver. I now have a NT1100 that covers all bases.
I've got one of these on order in that colour - demand seems to be outstripping supply at the moment, no surprise there. I've gone for the 702 for the lower height. Delivery expected end of Feb I'm told, just in time for the spring.
Down to earth and honest; a very good video. The Chinese are in the process of doing what the Japanese did 60 years ago . I remember their arrival and the attitudes and comments of riders at the time. The "premium" BS we are fed is getting more than a bit overdone and it's only a matter of time until "premium" manufacturers have to change their tune or fall by the wayside. Sure, BMW will always have people who want to spend £250 on a pair of spotlights to fit to their excellent but maybe overpriced steeds, but the rest are going to be looked at with a more and more critical eye. BS baffles brains only for so long.
I disagree. The Japanese came along and 60 years ago, initially copied the British bikes then produced some far more technically advanced bikes, at a much higher engineering quality, for a lower price. The Chinese take is to produce something that looks and feels as close as possible to a Japanese brand but built to a much lower cost. The inference always seems to be that the Japanese brands are making massive profits on their bikes and the Chinese just make a far smaller profit. I call BS on that. The Chinese brands are cheaper for a reason, if you don't care what that reason is then expect the Japanese brands to lower their quality ever further to compete.
@@BikingChap The early Japanese bikes I recall, were 125s and 250s, technologically superior to the then Brit bikes , but far from cheap for their capacities. IIRC a Honda Dream 250 was priced in the realms of a Brit 650. The Chinese have been and still are copyists, but for many years now have been manufacturing parts, engines and in some cases whole motorcycles for the Japanese marques. Manufacturing costs in China are for the moment still lower than japan and similar Asian countries so are part of the reason for price differences. Quality at present may be somewhat lower, but is rapidly improving. I make no implication of massive or indeed lower profits in the countries of origin, but form your own price judgement from say Royal Enfield RETAIL prices in India and UK, both freely available on the net. With the offshoreing of "premium" marques within the Asian region, there is ample room to compete on price with the Chinese. At present, the big names have their cake and are eating it too.
@@derekm6236 I agree with much of what you say, after all where the market is very price sensitive, the japanese brands are keen to reduce prices by any means. Honda's 125 is now made in Italy but before that China and before that India. What's telling of course is that generally the finish is relatively poor, certainly compared to the original japanese CG125 of decades ago. So as the era of really cheap chinese bikes ends and prices increase, japanese prices in real terms are down and so is quality. I guess i for one preferred it when the choice was more marked, you could buy top quality Japanese bikes or disposable Chinese bikes for pennies.
It doesn’t seem that long ago I was reading in the motorcycle press that the Chinese will match the Japanese motorcycles for quality, it sounds like they have and at a more affordable price with better specs sounds good to me 👍
Thanks for reviewing bikes that are often passed over by others, your view are much appreciated. But not for me. Why did they put exhaust pipes on that look like they came from the parts bin ? I would look at them every day and regret the purchase.
I hope it does really well. Another example of what Kawasaki haven't done, yet. I don't know why they haven't. Definitely food for thought. I think they've covered all the bases except that non Benelli dealers won't take them in part ex. Yet. Perfect size bike for uk roads. Ride safe 👍
Yes I failed to mention that point on the video but why haven't Kawasaki done a 19 inch wheeled versys? Would have seemed a no brainer. Interesting about dealers not taking benellis in px. Definitely relevant.
@@nathanthepostman I can't answer your question. Instead they gave the rest of the world another klr, which was going backwards, for me. A Tenere or Transalp it is not.
@@BlazinBlades definitely on the 650. It's all there. 21litre tank. Proven reliability. Carries luggage well. 19/17 tubeless spokes. Job done? I think the 1000 is a different animal.
WOW - Those torque figures are a significant difference! (Fun Fact - with you talking about Volvo and Geely - Polestar (Geely) got their company value written down from 18billion SEK to Zero by the holding bank 19.1/24)
Totally agree with the quality comments you made, I was always honda but not so much now, I've seen quite a few Triumphs with corrosion etc, shame really that they keep bumping up the price 😢
I guess it depends what you value. I was chatting to guys on a group for scooter delivery riders and asked if the Chinese scooters were worth considering and the experience was consistent. They're cheap but simply don't last. Simply look at what delivery guys ride, universally Yamaha and Honda because they simply have to rely on them.
@@BikingChapI think the Chinese scooters are a completely different proposition to these bigger bikes coming through. As I said in the video, the Morini I have has 10,000 miles on it. Stainless spokes, no corrosion, no wear and tear. No mechanical issues. Brembo brakes, pirelli tyres, Bosch sensors. It's not a poor quality product from my experience but yes, I think the cheap back street scooters have definitely left a bad taste in people's mouths
@@nathanthepostman yep, again i agree. What i see is the Chinese understanding that there's more profit to be made in making a slightly better bike than previously and charging significantly more. Sinnis for example did a 125 based loosely on a GS125 for under a grand not that many years ago. Mechanically tough but it was incredibly rough. Now Sinnis 125 are much, much posers to appeal to the kids but then they're more expensive than Honda's budget 125. From another perspective you can see how Yamaha went from really high quality bikes with alloy everywhere to the current MT range which are not that well finished, where stell is invariably used in stead of alloy, but the fundamental engineering of the motors etc is still sound. Interesting times.
Getting a secondhand triumph tiger 800 means a proven, great engine thats good for 100k miles if serviced with oil changes and a bike Alan Sanders took around the world without any breakdowns or issues including any electrical gremlins which seem to plague certain bike models even some hondas like VFR 800 eating 4 voltage regulator / rectifier units until i fitted an excellent Electrex MOSFET unit thats really durable and reliable and worth the £110 i paid for it. I had to however change a block connector i think for the yellow wire from the other connector which wasnt the same. Personaly i believe that a popular bike over many years is proof its had any gremlins ironed out and you cant beat simplicity, for ease of maintenance, parts availability and running costs. Im very impressed with Suzuki V strom 1000. My nephew had one and his only complaint was its top heavy feeling but he has 30 inch leg so was tip toe with 2 feet on the ground but in my opinion, 1000cc is nice especially 2 up with luggage but 650cc is enough solo and better all round.. Those suzuki engines and most gearboxes are really good. Some models can have a weakness in 3rd gear pinion like on the DR650 but ive never had any trouble and its only in very few bikes with higher mileages over 60k miles where its been maybe thrashed, abused and booted roughly into gear and where the oil changes havent been too often with cheaper oil and oil filter. Regular oil and filter changes mean less wear on the valve chain, shims, bearings etc so in theory the shims wont be out of adjustment so quickly.
regulator / stator is a regular issue on all bikes including Triumphs. I own a 1st gen Street and stators are weak, maybe it's better on the Tiger 800 but this one has starter issues. Anyway, all very nice bikes, so are those new chinese bikes nowadays, the CF Moto 800 is a good contender against the Tiger. TRK 702 is less powerful but also a lot cheaper
I've been looking around at all sorts of bikes for doing pretty much everything apart from hard off roading. I'm too old for that and would probably come a cropper. The bike that seems to be coming out top is the Aprilia tuareg 660. I'd be interested to hear your views on this bike. I'll take a look at this Benelli in the meantime.
I did ride one briefly at the sweet lamb off road centre in Wales. Cracking engine. Loads of power. Taller and softer long travel suspension than this Benelli. A different bike for a different purpose really but owners seem to like their aprilias and there's some great deals on new bikes
Once again you make a compelling case for your next bike in the collection. Will be interesting to see how well it does. The one thing I've not been a fan of is the dash. They've lost the art of the dash design going to these LED screens, it makes the front end appear to be chopped off. Thanks for another great video.
Great video, I have just put a deposit down on a Voge 900DSX with the loncin built BMW engine in it, a crazy price here in Spain of €8,888 . I currently ride a Vstro 650 xt which is a brilliant bike. The reasons I am moving to the 900DSX would be similar points to avoid the 702 for me. The Vstrom at 70bhp is fine for solo riding, with luggage and a pillion, overtakes have to be thought about at 120kph, it does it ok but not like solo riding. The suspension being limited in travel plus non adjustable front forks is an issue for me. We have very poor paved roads in the mountains here and longer travel is needed. The 19 inch front wheel also fairs poorly on our rough roads compared a 21 inch which floats over pot holes. Whilst you can take any bike offroad, the TRK and Vstrom are definitely 80/20 tarmac whereas the DSX is more 60/40 . So the 95bhp, longer suspension travel plus 21/17 wheel setup add up to my ideal adventure bike. If kove who go under the name of Macbor here in Spain had the Kove 800x, I would definitely look at that, super light, but likely to be of €10000 if the Italian Kove page is anything to go by. But yes as you say the Chinese are making quality bikes, loncin especially. Ill do a review on the DSX900 on my channel as soon as I get it. Keep those 2 wheels down Nathan. ✌️
That's a cracking price on the voge 900 paul. No word on prices here but I suspect it'll be on the nose of the cf moto 800 mt. And that kove looks pretty tempting as well!
@@nathanthepostman not sure if BMW will license the engine in the UK. Have a look on my page I've put a video of specs up from the Spanish Voge page. We have 20 bike range in the dealerships here. It seems Spain, Italy and Portugal will get the 525DSX and the 900DSX the 900 is pretty much the same bike as the 2024 BMW f900gs the 525DSX has some amazing reviews
@@motechRevolutionthe 525 has been confirmed here. Due any day I think. But yes interesting if they do bring the 900. It'll be the ultimate showcase of paying much less for the same bike. I'm amazed BMW sanctioned it to begin with. Being allowed to build their own version must have been in the contract with BMW from the get go
@@nathanthepostman yes I'm surprised that BMW allowed it, it's one thing designing an engine then getting Loncin to manufacture, but a direct bike clone, all I can guess is the huge licence revenue BMW are likely to make. We often forget every European bike brand plus HD etc don't have the amount of produced bikes as Loncin or even Bajaj in India. The DSX 525 would be a great bike for your stable, light and powerful enough, plus more dual sport than the 650DS and maybe more comfortable than the 300 rally. Interesting times, even RE have upped the ante. ✌️
🎉 I have the standard, had V85 then Himalayan changed to the TRK702. Really enjoying it. With you on wheels… the 800 Trails has spoked tubeless so they can do that? Does not make sense.
Hi Nathan, love is chat. I recently bought a 2021 TRK502, largely after watching your quick vid on it. Being in my mid sixties now and only have done 5k miles since returning four years ago... I think all modern bikes out perform my skill level anyway. I have a dealer 30 miles away so that's not an issue. Just been out a couple weeks f times in the first two weeks of ownership. Coming from an incredible deal on a Harley Davidson Street 750, the engine is great when revved, but no ground clearance and frankly the build quality was not there. This Benelli only had 376 miles on a 21 plate, so virtually brand new. The fit and finish seem in a different league and as you stated on the 702, the low speed balance is incredible. Totally counter intuitive as when to push the beast around, the weight seems extreme and very high up, dam my 29 inside leg. The noise from the standard screen is really the only disappointment to date. As you say you're getting a hell of a lot of bike for your money..... however one shouldn't be surprised to find you don't get anywhere the resale value you think it's worth. All about cutting your cloth and making, as you rightly point out, an informed decision. Anyway, really like and appreciate your content. Best of luck for the future too. Kind regards, David.
Thanks David. Appreciate the comment. Yes I hear some bike shops won't take Chinese bikes in at all. It really does seem to be the last sticking point to them. Hope you carry on enjoying the bike
I had a WK400 Trail, not in the same league as the Benelli, I found getting parts very frustrating, my only concern with the modern Chinese bikes is the parts availability that Japanese manufacturers excel at. I now have a Versys 300x that is no better corrosion wise than the Chinese bikes. It's hard to beat the parts availability down to every nut, bolt or bodywork fixing and the service manuals of the Japanese bikes. On looks the TRK 502 was the bike I wanted!
My brother has a new one.. Loves it. Bang for buck it's great value for money.. PS.. Why does the dash change from white background to reverse from time to time..
The dash has a light sensor so it will be dark in low light and light in bright light. I believe you can turn it off so you can have whichever you prefer.
Hi Es. Benelli have been pretty serious for the last ten years, so there's a well established parts network. I have heard of a few people having problems getting parts for the 502, but hopefully the 702 is well catered for. The 502 was best selling bike in italy and has done well in mainland Europe, so I suspect the back up is there.
@@nathanthepostman Good to know, I have heard horror stories about some Chinese firms not following through with parts. A friend of mine is going with you on your US adventure ride next month.
Thanks for the review Nathan love the detail. I have a 2018 650 Vstrom. I know you have tested those previously elsewhere against the vstrom 1000 (I was too short for the Thou). Question is do you think trading the vstrom 650 for this would be a good move? Oh and you mention video of your ride can we have some more footage of the ride if its available please. Cheers Natan ride safe!
Hi Robert. Sorry for the late reply. Its a while since I rode a VStrom 650 but from memory I think I'd prefer the Benelli. It's a good bike the VStrom, but the Benelli just seems to offer more for less. But whether there's any point in switching I'm not sure. Probably not different enough to justify. What do you think?
@@nathanthepostman TBH I'm not sure.Price is tempting and wondering if the lights are better and of course its a new bike. Gonna go and book a test ride though. Cheers Nathan!
I cannot see the parity Nathan, when looking at the service intervals. If the intervals were the same as the Japanese bikes then that is parity. Also, the V Strom 650 is reduced at the moment. Well, here in Spain at least! Keep up the great work.
Thanks @san. Parity in the way it rides is what I feel it has,, but definitely it needs to have the same service intervals as the Japanese bikes to properly compete
I would still change the oil around 3 ,000 miles no matter if it did say every 6 ,000 miles . I would also only put it in for the first service ,then once realised it’s not a Friday afternoon lemon ,junk the warranty & service it my self valves & all . That’s the way a well built budget bike stays a bargain . I would deffo consider one ,if I hadn’t needed to downsize due to health & age as it is my 250 V strom Chinese built ultra reliable ,yet still not much lighter at around 200 kgs ,fitted with centre stand ,givi top case & hand guards & deflector screen . Weight does have some advantage ,in that it makes a bike more planted & stable on the road . 👍
dunno nathan i had a do on one and after having the 502 for a season was a bit disspointed ..reason being is that parked next to a 502 theres pretty much nothing at all changed except the motor of course ..same brakes work ok but lack finesse ..same suspension same comment ..tbo if they just improved the suspension and braking componants and asked a bit more money id have been more interested i was hoping they would step up in other areas than the motor but sadly not ,,,the 502 was a last min ebay special buy and at 3500 quid it was hard to knock ran well nothioing broke nothing rusted and nowt fell off ..but belive me it wasnt a easy bike to sell or trade in later . ....depriciation is a big worry on the benneli having had one ...keep well
Hey minky. Yeah I saw your comment on the Morini vid where you said you'd been disappointed in the Benelli. I had it in the back of my mind when I rode the Benelli. I know in the video I said it's same bike with different engine but when I watched it back I thought well that can't be exactly the case as the brakes felt good on the 702, better than the brembos on that Morini. And I dont remember them being that good on the 502, although it is a while since I rode one. I don't think the 702 feels as tall and bulky as the 502 either. Others on the owners forum have said the same. and just overall refinement felt better. So I did think it was a step change from the 502 (from memory of riding one at least). Totally agree the issue is the resale and how hard they are to shift. Same with this morini. You can buy a new one at the minute for £5.5k! What's mine worth with 10k miles on the clock? Absolute bobbins. But I did enjoy the 702. Especially with the price tag in mind. ps. Got some new trails to explore down this way
Am I right the 702 is close to the same weight as the 502 without boxes and if so your opinion on which to buy as I’m downsizing at 75 from many bigger type bike regards from Florida
Hi John. I would go for the 702 as from memory it feels a bit lighter than the 502 and just comes across as a more modern, polished machine. Happy riding!
Honda will have less power but similar torque / weight. They are crazy economical (over 110mpg possible if determined) and utterly bombproof with examples doing over 200k miles, and dead easy to service.. Think of a modern CX650 / NTV650, tough, practical, dependable.
Hi Nathan can I ask your advice please? I've had my Himmie for 18 months and 10500 kms now and I'm looking for a new toy. I initially thought directly of a Himmie 450 but I've found a lot of others in a similar price range: Benelli 502/702/Leoncino 800 Trail, Moto Morini etc so my question is in your opinion how would the Himmie 450 rate in this company?
Hi Dave. Haven't ridden a new Himalayan yet but I think it would definitely better those other bikes for manageability and capability, especially off road or on back roads. I'd probably go for the Himalayan out of that lot
Thanks very much Nathan. Over here in France there are no bikes arriving at dealers until the back end of March/early April so I'm left twiddling my thumbs.
from the servicing point of view it is servicing once a year is no disaster for most and self servicing would be easy enough to do, not a complex engine, and if it is viewed as a long term keeper then all the servicing points are moot anyway, same goes for resale value, I wouldn't see a Benelli as a short one season bike but something to keep for a good few years and not worry about servicing or doing higher mileages which kill the residuals on anything, and a bigger touring/adventure bike is all show and look at me from the owners point of view with extra costs all around including the likes of tyres and other consumables, and as for the engine, it is CFmoto developed and produced and based on the early Kawasaki 650 engine which they bought the rights to produce
Yes agreed, an easy bike to self service and not a lot to go wrong. the Morini I've self serviced and will do until the valves need doing at 16k. That I can't do
While I totally agree, these bikes are on the face of it, great value. I'm very sure I'd be very happy in one. However in the real world you have to consider the total cost of ownership. Depreciation is the biggest cost. What will this be worth on resale? Bike with good residual value are actually cheaper to own even though expensive to purchase.
It's a very good point Roger and I think as you say it's the one last sticking point. From a logical standpoint it does still make better financial sense to go Japanese, although I think it'll level up eventually
I’ve looked at the 702x, a shade over £7000 with luggage, bit of a bargain? However, my current Triumph tiger 800 would maybe fetch £4500. So flog the tiger, buy the trk by spending £2600 out the bank. My problem with this is that the tiger will hold its value, the trk would lose at the least that difference in depreciation in twelve months, so within a year I’m £2600 poorer without a better bike? Good video mate, making me think though.
Yeah I don't think you'd lose that much in a year on the Benelli as they seem in strong demand and limited supply. But you're right, what would you be gaining bike wise other than it being newer. I liked the 800 tiger but never gelled with the 900.
I paid 4k for a 2021 benelli trk 502x with 200 miles 2 and a half years ago...has 14k miles now and I've just been offered today 3k by the dealer to upgrade to a 702x.....1k depreciation in 2.5k years .....what's wrong with that ...BTW the bike has been bullet proof compared to my 10k yamaha which has had loads of issues
@nathanthepostman it was an ex demo from the dealer but at the time they were around £4700 to £5000 new on the road..the prices have risen since I bought mine so I saved 1k to start cos the bike was still brand new
Own a 502x currently think it's a perfectly capable bike for the money the 702X should out sell it . Are benelli offering the free luggage again? Can't see any dealers offering it!
My friend bought a benneli 6 months ago. And I rode it often. The beneli weight distribution is bad. Also it's not too reliable And the service centers are terrible. Friend will now sell it at a loss . And switch to a ktm He saved me money by him trying to save money. And him ended up paying much more.. I bought a Honda transalp last wk
Yesterday I looked at the 702x, the dealer said it was tubeless and it had tubeless tyres on it but everyone seems to think it's tubed I wonder ? uummm
It will say tubeless on the tyres but it's the rim that's important and I don't believe the Benelli has sealed spokes. Hence it'll need a tube. And I can't find anything in the literature which would be a big selling point if it was tubeless. Happy to stand corrected if it does proved to be tubeless, which would be excellent.
Benelli will soon make the costs back on such a low service schedule, costing close to a Kawasaki SX 1000 mine last year straight service 18600 miles with Kawasaki,under £170 , not for me it will be in the garage too often 😢,
I’m all for smaller and lighter bikes but not sure about your summary. I’m no expert in economics but I believe that low cost labour charges (with possible human rights issues in China) and relying on old engine development mainly from the Japanese make these bikes an ethical proposition or future proof. What happens when or if the Japanese can no longer spend the money on R&D because of people wanting to buy cheap bikes from places like China. I’m not sure there’s room for all of the current motorcycle manufacturers to survive even in a fair market place.
Thanks Matthew. Just trying to dissect your point. I'm not sure it's that clear cut about ethical and non ethical these days. KTM and CF Moto have entered a partnership where the Chinese brand build the bikes for the Austrian brand. Is a KTM790 Adventure then any more ethical than a CF Moto 800 MT which is practically the same bike but £2000 less? And yes, if all they did was copy, I get it, but as I said in the video, with bikes like the 450MT they're innovating with new engines and pitching them at markets that have been abandoned by the Japanese/Europeans. So not sure. I think it's too complicated for us to get our heads around because we don't really know what's going on in the background. But ultimately, if morally you don't want to buy Chinese, then I think that's perfectly understandable, although I don't think it's entirely possible these days to not put money in China's pocket. The only real way is to buy second hand.
This is rather the point. My mantra, they're cheap for a reason. If they had no Japanese engines to buy their R&D costs would be way up there. A moot point i guess as electric bikes are coming but i find these rather rough, soulless copies and that doesn't really work for me. I'd rather have an NX500.
I totally understand why someone would buy a NX500, a decent bike, but it entirely reinforces my point about the Japanese. It's a rebadged CB500X that's gone up in price? Progress. I don't think so. Versus the new CF Moto 450 Mt which will be similarly priced but give everything a lot us have been asking for; ie, spoked 21/18 wheels, long travel suspension with a powerful enough twin cylinder engine that doesn't seem to be a copy of anything. Now that to me feels like progress. On the point about costs, how much would the Versys be if Kawasaki wasn't selling the rights to the engine to the Chinese, or as I suspect the case, having their engines built in Chinese factories as well. You see lower quality, I see greed. But I think we're clearly at different viewpoints on this, which is all fine and dandy.@@BikingChap
@@nathanthepostman Yep, thanks for replying, it's interesting to discuss. I don't disagree with the Japanese failing to innovate right now, where is the response to the Triumph 400s let along the Sherpa engined Royal Enfields for example? While i wouldn't dismiss the CFMoto 450 I suspect it's more of a niche product than Honda want to compete with. The CB500X / NX500 is little more than an 'adventure styled' road bike whereas the CFMoto looks to be a bike with genuine off road capability. The Honda sells well so i guess they know their market and i doubt if anyone wanting to do some green laning will choose the Honda anyway Where I would respectfully challenge is around the 'greed' accusation of the Japanese manufactures, I maybe completely wrong but they don't seem to make massive profits on their bikes but what they do ensure is a good dealer network, good spares backup over time and solid reliability over the long term. This is simply a different attitude to the Chinese manufactures which seems to revolve around how cheaply can we make something that looks and feels like a Japanese product but that costs two grand less. As i always say, they'll have cut somethings, maybe many things, that the Japanese brands do. In short if customers are happy with unproven long term reliability, dubious spares availability and distant dealers (and dead websites in Benelli's case) then, over time, this is what the japanese manafacturers will do too but when they do, let's not criticise them for not being as good as they used to be if that's exactly what the market decides it wants.
You talk a lot of sense regarding power size and weight. However A LOT of blokes in the uk buys the most expensive bike they can PCP to match their Audi, BMW or Mercedes SUV. Modesty, practicality and restraint are not big character traits in this country these days.
I have to say I remain wary of the Chinese brands. The absolute bottom line is that if it's 2 grand cheaper, then they've saved that somewhere, I do believe we have to get out of the habit of thinking that it's a 'bargain' or 'great value' simply because the ticket price is so much lower, at least until we understand where the saving is made. My first test was to see how far away the nearest dealer was, because if there are only 40 it's likely to be a bit of a trek, I go to their website and the dealer locator page simply doesn't work. A silly example maybe but indicative of how everything not obvious will be cut to the bone. These brands have become very good at offering bikes with good spec sheets that 'feel' good and have good showroom appeal, in other words they're hiding well where the money is cut. The irony? While we warmly welcome the low cost Chinese bikes as 'good value' we start to bemoan Honda's reduction in quality. The sad conclusion I'm coming to is that the Japanese brands will simply start to cut quality ever more, their support for older models and the dealer networks and their designs, to compete with Chinese products that the buyers are buying. Fine but don't then bemoan the lack of classics like the VFR, Blackbird or Fireblade in the remaining years of the petrol bikes if all we are valuing are the Kia and Hyundais of the motorcycling world.
I'd probably say that they saved the most money in the back office not on the factory floor. Had this been a Honda it would have had a global launch, 50 bikes, amassed in Spain or somewhere else hot. Hundreds of journalists and influencers flown in from around the world. Magazine advs. Until recently the big Honda hq at Slough to fund. And that's all got to go on the price of the bike. Then the big glass fronted dealers need bigger margins. Honda's presence in Dakar or the TT needs funding. It's all bloat that these new brands don't seem to have or need to charge for. So I personally don't think the value is coming in the cost cutting of the bike - after all that Morini uses brembo, marzocchi, pirelli, Bosch components - but in the reduced costs of operating the business. And obviously their acknowledgement that for now they have to be cheap to compete so are probably surviving on lower profits. But that'd only be my guess as to why the Japanese stuff is so much more expensive.
@@nathanthepostman yep fair shout, a good dealer network costs a lot to support and a big motorsport programme is very big bucks. I also agree re the press launch stuff, that's definitely changing. Rather than endless press junkets there's a definite shift to running a series of press bikes and loaning them out to TH-cam reviewers. I imagine TMF and similar channels have more reach than say RiDE these days and i haven't read a magazine review for many years (not strictly true i read a review of the new Himalayan in ABR, which was terrible in honesty - the review, not the bike) instead trying to find the more balanced indie reviewers online.
If china is building quality apple phones and electrical components and makind so much of the worlds different steels, it isnt for nothing that the bikes are good quality. Their knives are really good at the top of the specs and the CNC machining, QC and keeping within ISO9001 Specs says it all. Ten years ago you could question some goods meeting ISO9001 standards like threads being within tolerance on position or size and fit of threads with guages and even the finish, concentricity, or heat treatments as an example but wow if theyre building satelites into space and military stuff, the QC and materials etc standards are so much stricter and more precise. You cant have aircraft blowing up or seizing up in the air over London or Peking for example.
Bought the 702x, can seriously not fault it for quality and value at the price, centre stand, hugger, top box rack, front fender extender, illuminated switchgear, 30 ltr tank, wired for heated seat and grips, and then they throw in £1200 worth of good quality luggage with liners, pulls well and smooth
If the seat & grips are wired, can they be activated, optioned,or is it only accessible through an ecu remap ?? Also thought it sad that we can't get the front 'dash-cam' for the UK market.
I've turned 62 and after 46 motorcycles since I was 15 this is the last ("Yeah, right" says the Mrs). This one compares so well against others I've owned. NZ roads are deplorable and she soaks it up, and the range is staggering. I fitted a couple of LED spots and with the low seat on it, I'm happy as Larry
Absolutely cracking review . Properly honest down to earth . Been waiting for this bike since my first trk502x in 2018 . This past year I have been riding a 2016 1200GS and all the time been thinking there has to be a better option without spending over £10k . Yes I did look at the 750gs which my local dealership were very , very keen to sell me specced up to the hilt . The price of that bike was nigh on double the price of the 702x and I have since found out that most of 750gs is built in china , most definitely the engine is . They do seem to be in short supply so come on Moto GB who are the importers get it sorted please as I Want One!!
just bought a trk 702x with the Givi boxes what a bike 😁
I rode my CB500X down to the dealer where I’d ordered my Voge 300 Rally from to have a new rear tyre fitted. The tyre hadn’t arrive when I arrived so to keep me occupied the owner suggested a test ride on the Voge 525. I liked the Voge. It has an awful lot in common with the 500X and you could see that it was built as a direct competitor. From a price point of view there was no comparison, the Voge was fantastic value for money and I would recommend that anyone looking for a bike in that part of the market place took a good look at one. But… I got back on my Honda and rode home. I know it’s subjective but the Honda felt better to ride, just that much better to touch, feel and use. And the 500X is a bike from Taiwan not China so not far from a Chinese bike itself. At the end of the day I was quite pleased; during the test ride I was thinking that perhaps I wanted the new Voge but at the end of the day there was no way I was going to swap now. When I come to replacing the 500X, perhaps. On that note I won’t be ‘upgrading’ from the 500X. I thought that the new Transalp might be a temptation too far but at the end of the day what the 500 provides is what makes it so good. Little details like I’d rather keep the fantastic fuel economy than end up with yet another bike that would be too quick to reach the legal limits and beyond. For me and the touring that I do 500X is the best bike I’ve ever owned, the low purchase price and real world ability to average over 90 mpg are simply the icing on the cake.
Great feedback on the 525 Dave and glad it's cemented your original buying purchase! As you say, the 500x does everything well and the difference in fuel usage really adds up doesn't it on a bigger bike. I know travelling on the 300 voge seemed to cost buttons compared to travelling on the Morini. Not tempted by the NX?
I have a 2021 cb500x and I love the bike, but when I have a passanger and luggages it's hard to overtake.. But the quality is awesome and I love how it looks after I've made a lot of mods on it...
I have the 702X and for the price it is unbeatable, not to forget the £1200 worth of free luggage at the moment.
It also has a tracker fitted as standard :)
This isn't for me personally, bulky front end off-putting but then I'm finished with bigger bikes. If it helps to realign the Japanese manufacturers to making better value and simpler machines then I'm all for it.
me the same, its a big heavy road bike, and I will never buy another.
If u think about it, most known brand name companies that manufacture anything from any electronics, cars, motorcycles etc….
Either have parts coming from China or are assembled elsewhere from their respective country of origin.
What a great review, have had a Himalayan 411 for four years and on the cusp of getting a slightly bigger bike. I loved the perspective of the review and the real world relevance of how it rides. Will definitely look at this. Thanks 👊
Your discussions on the lower priced quality bikes gives a very good service to many of us. Thank You Nathan.
Good honest review 👍 I’ve always stuck with Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki over the years. Saw a Benelli TRK502 and was quite impressed. For me probably too under powered so I started looking at the TRK 702. For the price you seem to get a lot of bike for the money. Not bitten the bullet yet but your review I found very informative which will help me when I start going to have a look at the bikes at a local dealer 👍
I'm not in the market for a bike at present as my VStrom 650 is still serving me perfectly, but the TRK702 really caught my eye at Motorcycle Live and a quick sit felt really good and I liked the quality of the whole package.
Brilliant honest review as ever Nathan. I'm adding this to my wish list for my Strom replacement when she finally gives up the ghost.
Another great review Nathan. The weight comments really resonated with me. Happy with my Voge 300 Rally. Can go anywhere and don't have to overthink things.
Proper review thanks Nathan, none of the others do anything like as good a job talking about the sorts of things to think about when considering whether to buy a particular bike. The 450MT is going to be very interesting when we get that for sure, I think I'm going to be tempted by that. Never bought a new bike in my life though and only ever self service, insurance is high on a new bike so we'll see...
Another practical, straightforward and honest review. Bravo and thank you.
Thanks Mr hobo
Nice comprehensive talk and good industry analysis with a lot of bikes Nathan. I don't know if you have it in the works but a detailed comparison dedicated between the Moto Morini X-Cape 649 and Benelli TRK 702 would be really useful for us who are waiting to see that yet on TH-cam.
Great honest video. So true about buying the bike you need. The cafe I go to has a cambered car park and the amount of times I have seen riders struggle with huge bikes. They do not look like they are enjoying their riding experience. Looking forward to the truimph 400x
Great vid mate! Interesting opinions there. This could be my next bike.
Interesting review. Enjoyed your thoughts. Thank you
I love the sound of the 502. Parallel twin with a 360 crank in a sea of 270's
Superb review, you talk a lot of sense..your videos are essential viewing. Keep them coming..
Not my type of bike and came upon your review by accident on utube. Started to watch it as a friend just bought one. Wow. No politics just a good honest clear and informative review of the bike. Excellent and kept my interest for the whole 26 mins when normally I get bored after about 10 mins. Will be subscribing and look forward to more reviews.
A great review, honest without fear, nor favour. I bought a Benelli 502 in 2021 which I used for a year to get back into biking. My only criticism was that it was heavy and the 47 BHP engine struggled to perform as a result. It was a tiring bike to ride over long distances. I returned it to the supplying dealer after a years use, who sold it within a couple of days to a new owner. I wanted a Bigger Benelli and waited for the 800 TRK that never materialised. In the end I bought an Aprilia Tuareg 660 which was a lot more money than the TRK 702. (Which was not at the time available to buy.) In a nutshell, I completely agree with the direction of your review, the Europeans and Japanese can no longer rest on their past achievements to continue selling bikes. The Chinese bikes are likely to last just as long as anything else, whatever the resale values are in the future, eventually if you keep a bike for five years, you will have had your money's worth and you could give it away and not feel hard done by.
Well put together as usual Mr Millward. I personally don't buy new so i'd be happy with a 2-3 year old competitor (like my KTM 790 adventure) which would beat it on most counts & still hold some value second hand. I'm sure PK would buy the number plate from you😀
Really good open minded review Nathan. Some interesting points with the weight / manoeuvrability of bikes and also the power, and how much people actually need.
I saw a couple of these at a dealership the other day, and quality wise they seem to look very good and with what you’re saying, the ride seems to match
Really enjoyed this Nathan, thank you. Cheers
Blimey Nathan, you've had a haircut 😉
Another interesting, informed and balanced vid, as always 👍
Good detailed review. Well done. Not a bike for me, but anyone that simply has to buy new, and is on a low purchase outright budget, could probably be interested.
Great video Nathan
Showing us what is really out there
Nice looking bike, with a great price with luggage
Think this will sell well for the new adventure rider
We are considering selling our bikes and going back to pillion riding
Santander ferry is £1100 + in July and its getting beyond us
Maybe a demo ride will make our decision
The downside is the servicing intervals
The weight maybe an issue but it's how it feels that's important
Don't think it will be long before the Chinese bikes take a bigger slice of the market
Got a feeling your going to have one on the fleet 😂
mate,you are really good reviewer!and ve seen many the last months,couse i m about for a new bike but i havent decide .
Fantastic review ,,,,,, the Chinese bikes have come along way when considering all the bits they're giving you on them back light slipper clutch led lighting the list is endless. The big five manufacturers out cant offer you that unless your paying through the nose and only buy it as extra if they even do it all about bleeding you dry i for one am glad they are doing it because it will wake them up to people, will no longer stand to have the piss taken out of them. Great review by the way keep it up . Safe riding 👍👌
10/10
Words of wisdom! We tested a red X-Cape last year. Beautiful (like my old 350 sport) well made, comfortable - amazing kit for the money. Handled, stopped, but DIDN'T go! Even the wife complained about the dangerous lack of go for overtakes. Massive shame, as I was really tempted - for 1st time ever by Chinese stuff. The considerable weight and beautiful body work meant it wouldn't be used off road as the top heavy feel would likely lead to picking it up off some boulders - too much emotional and physical stress for an old pensioner like me! Watching this about the 702 it sounds like perfect solution & exactly what 'Morini' should have done with their version of the ER6. Can't get on with the bulbous BMW like front end which looks like a bitch to get off to get at anything (aren't they all nowadays. Will get test ride & try to get past the looks. Thanks.
Very good review thanks a lot I've just ordered a 702x for March delivery as I've had the 502x for the last 7 month and done 5k on it and it's been as good as gold not missed a beat hopefully the 702 is as good ready for the nc500
I think it'll be perfect up around the NC500 Max. Have a great trip and enjoy the new bike
Brilliant down to earth video thank you
Some wise words in thre Nathan, especially on size and power of bike. Good comprehensive revue and advice👌
The Chinese are coming big time for bikes and cars
Very informative. Great overview of where industry is at. The Chinese are better strategists now than the Japanese but they still hurry production along at a rate of knots. Not sure they will ever produce something as well made as a Pan or a vfr but maybe they will. Not sure we are offered the luggage here in Ireland but will investigate. Thanks very much
You do go on a bit, but your presentation skills are excellent. Like the bike. Great value.
Shorter seat nice. I have a 502. Levers are at closest point for me too.
That's it you have said it , as good as Japanese. The day had to arrive and i sort of new it would be this bike. So many people have been waiting for this to arrive and its impressive, shame we cannot get enough of them , what does that tell you... well done benelli. 👏
That was a good fair review. Thanks
Had the TRK502 and loved it, 2yrs 8.5k brilliant bike, only changed it as spares are a mare to source. Do like these though
I did hear that about parts for the 502. Hopefully this is one has better supply
and this of course is the traditional issue with many Chinese sourced bikes because the lower ticket price means somethings been cut somewhere. The trick is to make the customer think it hasn't until after they've handed over the money.
The majority of stuff is made in China nowadays so don’t think because it has bmw badge or Honda or Bentley that there not parts on from China these bike are excellent value for money and brilliant reviews you’ll pay just as much for a high end push bike buy 1 and enjoy 👍❤️
I have speaking to owners of benelli motorcycles recently and almost every owner I’ve spoken to speaks so highly of the bikes. I was impressed in my review of the TRK 502 x
Great review, I won’t be buying this bike but I do like it. It’s good to hear an honest review of a bike that includes the issues regarding service plans vs warranty, costs vs image and functionality and not least the socio political issues that surround buying a Chinese bike (whichever side of the fence we sit). Honest and valuable review. Thank you.
Cheers Graham
Great vlog, fabulous insights without any corporate bs or ego-based drivel. Classic Nathan........the goat(as my teenage sons inform me is the appropriate saying!!). Thanks Nathan, keep smilin', chap.
Awesome bud cheers 👍🏻
Great blog once again.
I had a 502 and loved how it looked. My issues were its top heavy, the brakes weren’t very good and it was too slow. Great beginner bike and a super price.
I've just been on the trk owners forum and there's people on there who have gone from 502 to 702 who are saying the bigger bike actually feels less too heavy. It's a while since I rode a 502 but I can imagine that could well be the case as the 702 didn't feel overly top heavy. Obviously the engine must carry it's weight differently
I have had EXACTLY the same experience. with the 502 I bought to return to motorcycling after 20 years away. Yes, I agree with you right down to the last letter of your comment! I now have an Aprilia 660 Tuareg and that was "WELL, worth" the extra asking price, given the quantum leap up in capabilities. In it's purest terms, the Aprilia is a one man operation to pick up when it falls over, the Benelli was not quite so easy. Benelli will I'm sure, continue to keep their value for money and reliability at it's exceptional level, but they will need to shave 30 to 40 kilos off of these things if they are wanting to challenge the established top manufacturers.
@@speedfinder1 I spent 5 days riding around Scotland. Loved every second of it, but realised like yourself after a spell away from bikes that you need more power when carrying full luggage. It just didn’t deliver. I now have a NT1100 that covers all bases.
I've got one of these on order in that colour - demand seems to be outstripping supply at the moment, no surprise there. I've gone for the 702 for the lower height. Delivery expected end of Feb I'm told, just in time for the spring.
Hope you enjoy the new bike rob. Let us know how you get on
i think the trk800 its gonna be awesome.when it ll come....
Hi Nathan just had I test ride on the trk702 that you test rode you've left your note pad in the top box mate bike is at bike treads in Swindon
Down to earth and honest; a very good video. The Chinese are in the process of doing what the Japanese did 60 years ago . I remember their arrival and the attitudes and comments of riders at the time. The "premium" BS we are fed is getting more than a bit overdone and it's only a matter of time until "premium" manufacturers have to change their tune or fall by the wayside. Sure, BMW will always have people who want to spend £250 on a pair of spotlights to fit to their excellent but maybe overpriced steeds, but the rest are going to be looked at with a more and more critical eye. BS baffles brains only for so long.
I disagree. The Japanese came along and 60 years ago, initially copied the British bikes then produced some far more technically advanced bikes, at a much higher engineering quality, for a lower price. The Chinese take is to produce something that looks and feels as close as possible to a Japanese brand but built to a much lower cost. The inference always seems to be that the Japanese brands are making massive profits on their bikes and the Chinese just make a far smaller profit. I call BS on that. The Chinese brands are cheaper for a reason, if you don't care what that reason is then expect the Japanese brands to lower their quality ever further to compete.
@@BikingChap The early Japanese bikes I recall, were 125s and 250s, technologically superior to the then Brit bikes , but far from cheap for their capacities. IIRC a Honda Dream 250 was priced in the realms of a Brit 650. The Chinese have been and still are copyists, but for many years now have been manufacturing parts, engines and in some cases whole motorcycles for the Japanese marques. Manufacturing costs in China are for the moment still lower than japan and similar Asian countries so are part of the reason for price differences. Quality at present may be somewhat lower, but is rapidly improving. I make no implication of massive or indeed lower profits in the countries of origin, but form your own price judgement from say Royal Enfield RETAIL prices in India and UK, both freely available on the net. With the offshoreing of "premium" marques within the Asian region, there is ample room to compete on price with the Chinese. At present, the big names have their cake and are eating it too.
@@derekm6236 I agree with much of what you say, after all where the market is very price sensitive, the japanese brands are keen to reduce prices by any means. Honda's 125 is now made in Italy but before that China and before that India. What's telling of course is that generally the finish is relatively poor, certainly compared to the original japanese CG125 of decades ago. So as the era of really cheap chinese bikes ends and prices increase, japanese prices in real terms are down and so is quality. I guess i for one preferred it when the choice was more marked, you could buy top quality Japanese bikes or disposable Chinese bikes for pennies.
It doesn’t seem that long ago I was reading in the motorcycle press that the Chinese will match the Japanese motorcycles for quality, it sounds like they have and at a more affordable price with better specs sounds good to me 👍
Hi any chance you could road test the Voge 650 DX it seems quite a reasonable proposition.
When I lived in Italy they were very popular.....
I sat on the 702 at motorcycle live back in November . I did not like the seat at all. The hard bit in the middle is really uncomfortable.
excellent thanks
Thanks for reviewing bikes that are often passed over by others, your view are much appreciated.
But not for me.
Why did they put exhaust pipes on that look like they came from the parts bin ?
I would look at them every day and regret the purchase.
I hope it does really well.
Another example of what Kawasaki haven't done, yet. I don't know why they haven't.
Definitely food for thought.
I think they've covered all the bases except that non Benelli dealers won't take them in part ex. Yet.
Perfect size bike for uk roads.
Ride safe 👍
Yes I failed to mention that point on the video but why haven't Kawasaki done a 19 inch wheeled versys? Would have seemed a no brainer. Interesting about dealers not taking benellis in px. Definitely relevant.
@@nathanthepostman I can't answer your question. Instead they gave the rest of the world another klr, which was going backwards, for me. A Tenere or Transalp it is not.
Versys 650 is the 17” answer to this 17”-er
If I was Kawasaki I would put 19”ers on the 650 and 1000 and stir the pot a bit…🤘🤘
@@BlazinBlades definitely on the 650.
It's all there. 21litre tank. Proven reliability. Carries luggage well.
19/17 tubeless spokes. Job done?
I think the 1000 is a different animal.
WOW - Those torque figures are a significant difference! (Fun Fact - with you talking about Volvo and Geely - Polestar (Geely) got their company value written down from 18billion SEK to Zero by the holding bank 19.1/24)
Yes it feels like a different engine to be honest. Somebody's done a good job on it.
Totally agree with the quality comments you made, I was always honda but not so much now, I've seen quite a few Triumphs with corrosion etc, shame really that they keep bumping up the price 😢
I guess it depends what you value. I was chatting to guys on a group for scooter delivery riders and asked if the Chinese scooters were worth considering and the experience was consistent. They're cheap but simply don't last. Simply look at what delivery guys ride, universally Yamaha and Honda because they simply have to rely on them.
@@BikingChapI think the Chinese scooters are a completely different proposition to these bigger bikes coming through. As I said in the video, the Morini I have has 10,000 miles on it. Stainless spokes, no corrosion, no wear and tear. No mechanical issues. Brembo brakes, pirelli tyres, Bosch sensors. It's not a poor quality product from my experience but yes, I think the cheap back street scooters have definitely left a bad taste in people's mouths
@@nathanthepostman yep, again i agree. What i see is the Chinese understanding that there's more profit to be made in making a slightly better bike than previously and charging significantly more. Sinnis for example did a 125 based loosely on a GS125 for under a grand not that many years ago. Mechanically tough but it was incredibly rough. Now Sinnis 125 are much, much posers to appeal to the kids but then they're more expensive than Honda's budget 125. From another perspective you can see how Yamaha went from really high quality bikes with alloy everywhere to the current MT range which are not that well finished, where stell is invariably used in stead of alloy, but the fundamental engineering of the motors etc is still sound. Interesting times.
Getting a secondhand triumph tiger 800 means a proven, great engine thats good for 100k miles if serviced with oil changes and a bike Alan Sanders took around the world without any breakdowns or issues including any electrical gremlins which seem to plague certain bike models even some hondas like VFR 800 eating 4 voltage regulator / rectifier units until i fitted an excellent Electrex MOSFET unit thats really durable and reliable and worth the £110 i paid for it. I had to however change a block connector i think for the yellow wire from the other connector which wasnt the same. Personaly i believe that a popular bike over many years is proof its had any gremlins ironed out and you cant beat simplicity, for ease of maintenance, parts availability and running costs. Im very impressed with Suzuki V strom 1000. My nephew had one and his only complaint was its top heavy feeling but he has 30 inch leg so was tip toe with 2 feet on the ground but in my opinion, 1000cc is nice especially 2 up with luggage but 650cc is enough solo and better all round.. Those suzuki engines and most gearboxes are really good. Some models can have a weakness in 3rd gear pinion like on the DR650 but ive never had any trouble and its only in very few bikes with higher mileages over 60k miles where its been maybe thrashed, abused and booted roughly into gear and where the oil changes havent been too often with cheaper oil and oil filter. Regular oil and filter changes mean less wear on the valve chain, shims, bearings etc so in theory the shims wont be out of adjustment so quickly.
regulator / stator is a regular issue on all bikes including Triumphs. I own a 1st gen Street and stators are weak, maybe it's better on the Tiger 800 but this one has starter issues. Anyway, all very nice bikes, so are those new chinese bikes nowadays, the CF Moto 800 is a good contender against the Tiger. TRK 702 is less powerful but also a lot cheaper
I've been looking around at all sorts of bikes for doing pretty much everything apart from hard off roading. I'm too old for that and would probably come a cropper. The bike that seems to be coming out top is the Aprilia tuareg 660. I'd be interested to hear your views on this bike.
I'll take a look at this Benelli in the meantime.
I did ride one briefly at the sweet lamb off road centre in Wales. Cracking engine. Loads of power. Taller and softer long travel suspension than this Benelli. A different bike for a different purpose really but owners seem to like their aprilias and there's some great deals on new bikes
@@nathanthepostman Thanks for the reply.
Once again you make a compelling case for your next bike in the collection. Will be interesting to see how well it does. The one thing I've not been a fan of is the dash. They've lost the art of the dash design going to these LED screens, it makes the front end appear to be chopped off. Thanks for another great video.
Thanks Charlie. Won't be buying this one tho. A bit too big for my needs and I need to get rid of some others first!
Great video, I have just put a deposit down on a Voge 900DSX with the loncin built BMW engine in it, a crazy price here in Spain of €8,888 . I currently ride a Vstro 650 xt which is a brilliant bike. The reasons I am moving to the 900DSX would be similar points to avoid the 702 for me. The Vstrom at 70bhp is fine for solo riding, with luggage and a pillion, overtakes have to be thought about at 120kph, it does it ok but not like solo riding. The suspension being limited in travel plus non adjustable front forks is an issue for me. We have very poor paved roads in the mountains here and longer travel is needed. The 19 inch front wheel also fairs poorly on our rough roads compared a 21 inch which floats over pot holes. Whilst you can take any bike offroad, the TRK and Vstrom are definitely 80/20 tarmac whereas the DSX is more 60/40 . So the 95bhp, longer suspension travel plus 21/17 wheel setup add up to my ideal adventure bike. If kove who go under the name of Macbor here in Spain had the Kove 800x, I would definitely look at that, super light, but likely to be of €10000 if the Italian Kove page is anything to go by. But yes as you say the Chinese are making quality bikes, loncin especially. Ill do a review on the DSX900 on my channel as soon as I get it. Keep those 2 wheels down Nathan. ✌️
That's a cracking price on the voge 900 paul. No word on prices here but I suspect it'll be on the nose of the cf moto 800 mt. And that kove looks pretty tempting as well!
@@nathanthepostman not sure if BMW will license the engine in the UK. Have a look on my page I've put a video of specs up from the Spanish Voge page. We have 20 bike range in the dealerships here. It seems Spain, Italy and Portugal will get the 525DSX and the 900DSX the 900 is pretty much the same bike as the 2024 BMW f900gs the 525DSX has some amazing reviews
@@motechRevolutionthe 525 has been confirmed here. Due any day I think. But yes interesting if they do bring the 900. It'll be the ultimate showcase of paying much less for the same bike. I'm amazed BMW sanctioned it to begin with. Being allowed to build their own version must have been in the contract with BMW from the get go
@@nathanthepostman yes I'm surprised that BMW allowed it, it's one thing designing an engine then getting Loncin to manufacture, but a direct bike clone, all I can guess is the huge licence revenue BMW are likely to make. We often forget every European bike brand plus HD etc don't have the amount of produced bikes as Loncin or even Bajaj in India. The DSX 525 would be a great bike for your stable, light and powerful enough, plus more dual sport than the 650DS and maybe more comfortable than the 300 rally. Interesting times, even RE have upped the ante. ✌️
🎉 I have the standard, had V85 then Himalayan changed to the TRK702. Really enjoying it. With you on wheels… the 800 Trails has spoked tubeless so they can do that? Does not make sense.
How are you finding it compared to the v85tt?
Hi Nathan, love is chat. I recently bought a 2021 TRK502, largely after watching your quick vid on it. Being in my mid sixties now and only have done 5k miles since returning four years ago... I think all modern bikes out perform my skill level anyway. I have a dealer 30 miles away so that's not an issue. Just been out a couple weeks f times in the first two weeks of ownership. Coming from an incredible deal on a Harley Davidson Street 750, the engine is great when revved, but no ground clearance and frankly the build quality was not there. This Benelli only had 376 miles on a 21 plate, so virtually brand new. The fit and finish seem in a different league and as you stated on the 702, the low speed balance is incredible. Totally counter intuitive as when to push the beast around, the weight seems extreme and very high up, dam my 29 inside leg. The noise from the standard screen is really the only disappointment to date. As you say you're getting a hell of a lot of bike for your money..... however one shouldn't be surprised to find you don't get anywhere the resale value you think it's worth. All about cutting your cloth and making, as you rightly point out, an informed decision. Anyway, really like and appreciate your content. Best of luck for the future too. Kind regards, David.
Thanks David. Appreciate the comment. Yes I hear some bike shops won't take Chinese bikes in at all. It really does seem to be the last sticking point to them. Hope you carry on enjoying the bike
I think its damn fugly, but the algo likes views and comments. That 450MT looks a better prospect.
A great review Nathan well done. Can you tell me if the luggage comes with liners as part of the free luggage deal?
Hi Colin. Yes, liners included.
I had a WK400 Trail, not in the same league as the Benelli, I found getting parts very frustrating, my only concern with the modern Chinese bikes is the parts availability that Japanese manufacturers excel at.
I now have a Versys 300x that is no better corrosion wise than the Chinese bikes. It's hard to beat the parts availability down to every nut, bolt or bodywork fixing and the service manuals of the Japanese bikes.
On looks the TRK 502 was the bike I wanted!
My brother has a new one.. Loves it. Bang for buck it's great value for money.. PS.. Why does the dash change from white background to reverse from time to time..
The dash has a light sensor so it will be dark in low light and light in bright light. I believe you can turn it off so you can have whichever you prefer.
@@Crossers76 gotcha..
Great video!
Thank you
All sounds good. DO you know what the situation is regarding spares ? Have they committed to have spares available quickly for multiple years ?
Hi Es. Benelli have been pretty serious for the last ten years, so there's a well established parts network. I have heard of a few people having problems getting parts for the 502, but hopefully the 702 is well catered for. The 502 was best selling bike in italy and has done well in mainland Europe, so I suspect the back up is there.
@@nathanthepostman Good to know, I have heard horror stories about some Chinese firms not following through with parts. A friend of mine is going with you on your US adventure ride next month.
Did you mention the vibration levels? I had an ER6F and that vibrated so much that it severed the silencer off!!
I mentioned that it tingles through the pegs at about 6k rpm. I wouldn't say vibrations tho
@nathanthepostman just noticed it's the one in my avatar! No, that thing vibrated like a b'tard!!!
Thanks for the review Nathan love the detail. I have a 2018 650 Vstrom. I know you have tested those previously elsewhere against the vstrom 1000 (I was too short for the Thou). Question is do you think trading the vstrom 650 for this would be a good move? Oh and you mention video of your ride can we have some more footage of the ride if its available please. Cheers Natan ride safe!
Hi Robert. Sorry for the late reply. Its a while since I rode a VStrom 650 but from memory I think I'd prefer the Benelli. It's a good bike the VStrom, but the Benelli just seems to offer more for less. But whether there's any point in switching I'm not sure. Probably not different enough to justify. What do you think?
@@nathanthepostman TBH I'm not sure.Price is tempting and wondering if the lights are better and of course its a new bike.
Gonna go and book a test ride though. Cheers Nathan!
I cannot see the parity Nathan, when looking at the service intervals. If the intervals were the same as the Japanese bikes then that is parity. Also, the V Strom 650 is reduced at the moment. Well, here in Spain at least! Keep up the great work.
Thanks @san. Parity in the way it rides is what I feel it has,, but definitely it needs to have the same service intervals as the Japanese bikes to properly compete
Same in UK re the 650. Currently lists on the road at £8,200 not "Nine grand"
I would still change the oil around 3 ,000 miles no matter if it did say every 6 ,000 miles . I would also only put it in for the first service ,then once realised it’s not a Friday afternoon lemon ,junk the warranty & service it my self valves & all . That’s the way a well built budget bike stays a bargain . I would deffo consider one ,if I hadn’t needed to downsize due to health & age as it is my 250 V strom Chinese built ultra reliable ,yet still not much lighter at around 200 kgs ,fitted with centre stand ,givi top case & hand guards & deflector screen . Weight does have some advantage ,in that it makes a bike more planted & stable on the road . 👍
dunno nathan i had a do on one and after having the 502 for a season was a bit disspointed ..reason being is that parked next to a 502 theres pretty much nothing at all changed except the motor of course ..same brakes work ok but lack finesse ..same suspension same comment ..tbo if they just improved the suspension and braking componants and asked a bit more money id have been more interested i was hoping they would step up in other areas than the motor but sadly not ,,,the 502 was a last min ebay special buy and at 3500 quid it was hard to knock ran well nothioing broke nothing rusted and nowt fell off ..but belive me it wasnt a easy bike to sell or trade in later . ....depriciation is a big worry on the benneli having had one ...keep well
Hey minky. Yeah I saw your comment on the Morini vid where you said you'd been disappointed in the Benelli. I had it in the back of my mind when I rode the Benelli. I know in the video I said it's same bike with different engine but when I watched it back I thought well that can't be exactly the case as the brakes felt good on the 702, better than the brembos on that Morini. And I dont remember them being that good on the 502, although it is a while since I rode one. I don't think the 702 feels as tall and bulky as the 502 either. Others on the owners forum have said the same. and just overall refinement felt better. So I did think it was a step change from the 502 (from memory of riding one at least). Totally agree the issue is the resale and how hard they are to shift. Same with this morini. You can buy a new one at the minute for £5.5k! What's mine worth with 10k miles on the clock? Absolute bobbins. But I did enjoy the 702. Especially with the price tag in mind. ps. Got some new trails to explore down this way
Am I right the 702 is close to the same weight as the 502 without boxes and if so your opinion on which to buy as I’m downsizing at 75 from many bigger type bike regards from Florida
Hi John. I would go for the 702 as from memory it feels a bit lighter than the 502 and just comes across as a more modern, polished machine. Happy riding!
Hey Nathan nice video, how will you compare a 702x with CfMoto 800mt, I'm confused which one to get, thanks
Sorry for the late reply. I'm actually riding a cfmoto tomorrow so will let you know ASAP!
@@nathanthepostman that will be great, thanks
Good video as usual. I think it compares to a Honda NC 750X?
That's a very good point and one I'd overlooked. Less power but it seems good value for a Honda at £8000. That's be an interesting comparison.
Honda will have less power but similar torque / weight. They are crazy economical (over 110mpg possible if determined) and utterly bombproof with examples doing over 200k miles, and dead easy to service.. Think of a modern CX650 / NTV650, tough, practical, dependable.
Hi Nathan can I ask your advice please? I've had my Himmie for 18 months and 10500 kms now and I'm looking for a new toy. I initially thought directly of a Himmie 450 but I've found a lot of others in a similar price range: Benelli 502/702/Leoncino 800 Trail, Moto Morini etc so my question is in your opinion how would the Himmie 450 rate in this company?
Hi Dave. Haven't ridden a new Himalayan yet but I think it would definitely better those other bikes for manageability and capability, especially off road or on back roads. I'd probably go for the Himalayan out of that lot
Thanks very much Nathan. Over here in France there are no bikes arriving at dealers until the back end of March/early April so I'm left twiddling my thumbs.
from the servicing point of view it is servicing once a year is no disaster for most and self servicing would be easy enough to do, not a complex engine, and if it is viewed as a long term keeper then all the servicing points are moot anyway, same goes for resale value, I wouldn't see a Benelli as a short one season bike but something to keep for a good few years and not worry about servicing or doing higher mileages which kill the residuals on anything, and a bigger touring/adventure bike is all show and look at me from the owners point of view with extra costs all around including the likes of tyres and other consumables, and as for the engine, it is CFmoto developed and produced and based on the early Kawasaki 650 engine which they bought the rights to produce
Yes agreed, an easy bike to self service and not a lot to go wrong. the Morini I've self serviced and will do until the valves need doing at 16k. That I can't do
While I totally agree, these bikes are on the face of it, great value. I'm very sure I'd be very happy in one. However in the real world you have to consider the total cost of ownership. Depreciation is the biggest cost. What will this be worth on resale? Bike with good residual value are actually cheaper to own even though expensive to purchase.
It's a very good point Roger and I think as you say it's the one last sticking point. From a logical standpoint it does still make better financial sense to go Japanese, although I think it'll level up eventually
I prefer the look of the MM but the Benelli seems like a better deal. Nick
That's about my conclusion with it as well
I’ve looked at the 702x, a shade over £7000 with luggage, bit of a bargain?
However, my current Triumph tiger 800 would maybe fetch £4500.
So flog the tiger, buy the trk by spending £2600 out the bank.
My problem with this is that the tiger will hold its value, the trk would lose at the least that difference in depreciation in twelve months, so within a year I’m £2600 poorer without a better bike?
Good video mate, making me think though.
Yeah I don't think you'd lose that much in a year on the Benelli as they seem in strong demand and limited supply. But you're right, what would you be gaining bike wise other than it being newer. I liked the 800 tiger but never gelled with the 900.
I agree, they may be cheap to buy but when it comes to selling them you will lose your arm. I’m still a believer you get what you pay for.
I paid 4k for a 2021 benelli trk 502x with 200 miles 2 and a half years ago...has 14k miles now and I've just been offered today 3k by the dealer to upgrade to a 702x.....1k depreciation in 2.5k years .....what's wrong with that ...BTW the bike has been bullet proof compared to my 10k yamaha which has had loads of issues
@@peter58murrayI imagine the guy you bought it off didn't think he'd done so well on the depreciation front
@nathanthepostman it was an ex demo from the dealer but at the time they were around £4700 to £5000 new on the road..the prices have risen since I bought mine so I saved 1k to start cos the bike was still brand new
Hey Nathan, what do you think of the Suzuki 800?
Not sure. Haven't ridden one. But good timing. I've got one coming on loan next week. A DE
Mate has a T7, we ride off road a lot but the T7 is too tall for me, was thinking the DE might be a better choice
Own a 502x currently think it's a perfectly capable bike for the money the 702X should out sell it . Are benelli offering the free luggage again? Can't see any dealers offering it!
Yeah I believe all are for the next 6 months. Check the main website
Nathan hows the 702 going ?
It was only on loan Peter so it's gone back a few weeks back. Would be keen to put more miles on some of these bikes on a tour
Still waiting in usa
Why did you not get the X model it’s a bit more off road focused than the std bike.
It's what they supplied. No choice
Equally, I wouldn't personally buy the X model for off road. it's a bit heavy for my liking off road.
My friend bought a benneli 6 months ago. And I rode it often.
The beneli weight distribution is bad.
Also it's not too reliable
And the service centers are terrible.
Friend will now sell it at a loss . And switch to a ktm
He saved me money by him trying to save money. And him ended up paying much more..
I bought a Honda transalp last wk
Yesterday I looked at the 702x, the dealer said it was tubeless and it had tubeless tyres on it but everyone seems to think it's tubed I wonder ? uummm
It will say tubeless on the tyres but it's the rim that's important and I don't believe the Benelli has sealed spokes. Hence it'll need a tube. And I can't find anything in the literature which would be a big selling point if it was tubeless. Happy to stand corrected if it does proved to be tubeless, which would be excellent.
Just install.slime tubes....never worry about a puncture ever again..
Benelli will soon make the costs back on such a low service schedule, costing close to a Kawasaki SX 1000 mine last year straight service 18600 miles with Kawasaki,under £170 , not for me it will be in the garage too often 😢,
I’m all for smaller and lighter bikes but not sure about your summary. I’m no expert in economics but I believe that low cost labour charges (with possible human rights issues in China) and relying on old engine development mainly from the Japanese make these bikes an ethical proposition or future proof. What happens when or if the Japanese can no longer spend the money on R&D because of people wanting to buy cheap bikes from places like China. I’m not sure there’s room for all of the current motorcycle manufacturers to survive even in a fair market place.
Thanks Matthew. Just trying to dissect your point. I'm not sure it's that clear cut about ethical and non ethical these days. KTM and CF Moto have entered a partnership where the Chinese brand build the bikes for the Austrian brand. Is a KTM790 Adventure then any more ethical than a CF Moto 800 MT which is practically the same bike but £2000 less? And yes, if all they did was copy, I get it, but as I said in the video, with bikes like the 450MT they're innovating with new engines and pitching them at markets that have been abandoned by the Japanese/Europeans. So not sure. I think it's too complicated for us to get our heads around because we don't really know what's going on in the background. But ultimately, if morally you don't want to buy Chinese, then I think that's perfectly understandable, although I don't think it's entirely possible these days to not put money in China's pocket. The only real way is to buy second hand.
This is rather the point. My mantra, they're cheap for a reason. If they had no Japanese engines to buy their R&D costs would be way up there. A moot point i guess as electric bikes are coming but i find these rather rough, soulless copies and that doesn't really work for me. I'd rather have an NX500.
I totally understand why someone would buy a NX500, a decent bike, but it entirely reinforces my point about the Japanese. It's a rebadged CB500X that's gone up in price? Progress. I don't think so. Versus the new CF Moto 450 Mt which will be similarly priced but give everything a lot us have been asking for; ie, spoked 21/18 wheels, long travel suspension with a powerful enough twin cylinder engine that doesn't seem to be a copy of anything. Now that to me feels like progress. On the point about costs, how much would the Versys be if Kawasaki wasn't selling the rights to the engine to the Chinese, or as I suspect the case, having their engines built in Chinese factories as well. You see lower quality, I see greed. But I think we're clearly at different viewpoints on this, which is all fine and dandy.@@BikingChap
@@nathanthepostman Yep, thanks for replying, it's interesting to discuss. I don't disagree with the Japanese failing to innovate right now, where is the response to the Triumph 400s let along the Sherpa engined Royal Enfields for example? While i wouldn't dismiss the CFMoto 450 I suspect it's more of a niche product than Honda want to compete with. The CB500X / NX500 is little more than an 'adventure styled' road bike whereas the CFMoto looks to be a bike with genuine off road capability. The Honda sells well so i guess they know their market and i doubt if anyone wanting to do some green laning will choose the Honda anyway
Where I would respectfully challenge is around the 'greed' accusation of the Japanese manufactures, I maybe completely wrong but they don't seem to make massive profits on their bikes but what they do ensure is a good dealer network, good spares backup over time and solid reliability over the long term. This is simply a different attitude to the Chinese manufactures which seems to revolve around how cheaply can we make something that looks and feels like a Japanese product but that costs two grand less.
As i always say, they'll have cut somethings, maybe many things, that the Japanese brands do. In short if customers are happy with unproven long term reliability, dubious spares availability and distant dealers (and dead websites in Benelli's case) then, over time, this is what the japanese manafacturers will do too but when they do, let's not criticise them for not being as good as they used to be if that's exactly what the market decides it wants.
Love it but can not buy it . They disappeared from my country!
You talk a lot of sense regarding power size and weight. However A LOT of blokes in the uk buys the most expensive bike they can PCP to match their Audi, BMW or Mercedes SUV. Modesty, practicality and restraint are not big character traits in this country these days.
I have to say I remain wary of the Chinese brands. The absolute bottom line is that if it's 2 grand cheaper, then they've saved that somewhere, I do believe we have to get out of the habit of thinking that it's a 'bargain' or 'great value' simply because the ticket price is so much lower, at least until we understand where the saving is made. My first test was to see how far away the nearest dealer was, because if there are only 40 it's likely to be a bit of a trek, I go to their website and the dealer locator page simply doesn't work. A silly example maybe but indicative of how everything not obvious will be cut to the bone. These brands have become very good at offering bikes with good spec sheets that 'feel' good and have good showroom appeal, in other words they're hiding well where the money is cut. The irony? While we warmly welcome the low cost Chinese bikes as 'good value' we start to bemoan Honda's reduction in quality. The sad conclusion I'm coming to is that the Japanese brands will simply start to cut quality ever more, their support for older models and the dealer networks and their designs, to compete with Chinese products that the buyers are buying. Fine but don't then bemoan the lack of classics like the VFR, Blackbird or Fireblade in the remaining years of the petrol bikes if all we are valuing are the Kia and Hyundais of the motorcycling world.
I'd probably say that they saved the most money in the back office not on the factory floor. Had this been a Honda it would have had a global launch, 50 bikes, amassed in Spain or somewhere else hot. Hundreds of journalists and influencers flown in from around the world. Magazine advs. Until recently the big Honda hq at Slough to fund. And that's all got to go on the price of the bike. Then the big glass fronted dealers need bigger margins. Honda's presence in Dakar or the TT needs funding. It's all bloat that these new brands don't seem to have or need to charge for. So I personally don't think the value is coming in the cost cutting of the bike - after all that Morini uses brembo, marzocchi, pirelli, Bosch components - but in the reduced costs of operating the business. And obviously their acknowledgement that for now they have to be cheap to compete so are probably surviving on lower profits. But that'd only be my guess as to why the Japanese stuff is so much more expensive.
@@nathanthepostman yep fair shout, a good dealer network costs a lot to support and a big motorsport programme is very big bucks. I also agree re the press launch stuff, that's definitely changing. Rather than endless press junkets there's a definite shift to running a series of press bikes and loaning them out to TH-cam reviewers. I imagine TMF and similar channels have more reach than say RiDE these days and i haven't read a magazine review for many years (not strictly true i read a review of the new Himalayan in ABR, which was terrible in honesty - the review, not the bike) instead trying to find the more balanced indie reviewers online.
If china is building quality apple phones and electrical components and makind so much of the worlds different steels, it isnt for nothing that the bikes are good quality. Their knives are really good at the top of the specs and the CNC machining, QC and keeping within ISO9001 Specs says it all. Ten years ago you could question some goods meeting ISO9001 standards like threads being within tolerance on position or size and fit of threads with guages and even the finish, concentricity, or heat treatments as an example but wow if theyre building satelites into space and military stuff, the QC and materials etc standards are so much stricter and more precise. You cant have aircraft blowing up or seizing up in the air over London or Peking for example.
Can’t find one, so I guess I can’t buy one