You're kidding me! A 2 book deal *and* potential movie rights? Out the gate?! This woman had success and fortune all but handed to her on a silver f*cking platter. The lifelong dream of *so many* aspiring writers... and literally all she had to do was keep her head down. I just cannot believe someone could throw all of that away *just because* she had to be spiteful and insecure toward other creators who did nothing to her. Disgraceful doesn't cover it.
She still had to write the book, to be fair. It's just mindboggling that someone would kill their own career with this level of pettiness. @@paulwoodford1984
For real. Quite honestly, if that climatic Discord confrontation with "Lilly" is an example of Cait's best, most convincing writing...sorry, not sorry, but I can't imagine that Crown of Starlight is any good to begin with.
Shit, I've even fabricated Discord chat convos myself in the past by logging into one account on an incognito tab and the other on a main tab. She had all those fake accounts, it was laughably easy to switch from a Discord handle on her phone to a Discord handle on her laptop.
What personally offended me the most through this whole mess is the piss poor villainy. Somehow Cait managed to make every worst decision at every stage.
I always see stuff like this as doubly insulting. Like… come on, if you’re going to be an utter shithead at least have the courtesy of being smart about it…
I love how the "Lily" person goes from having the mental capacity of a child and seemingly not understanding that their actions have consequences, to a mastermind supervillain concocting an entire smear campaign against the author.
i cannot overstate how much i despise that her "apology" started out with "oh i was struggling through all these things" instead of taking ownership of her actions first and foremost
Yeah its such a cop out excuse, especially when it involves other people like here. Like okay, you were struggling but do you think those authors werent struggling as well? Along with their creations being bombed in the spotlight? As an aspiring amateur author, this pisses me off
To be honest, looking at her behaviour and how coordinated this all was, I'd have to say that it has less to do with mental health and other struggles and more to do with the fact that she was jealous that other writers were being published and getting the same attention she was. The fact that she went after writers who were people of colour is very telling. Honestly, this author is just disgusting.
cindy casually dropping that there's someone in the reylo fandom who keeps historical logs of every tweet on the website mentioning them like that isn't one of the most insane things i've ever read with my eyes
If I had to infer as to why that is, there’s a long history of Reylos being harassed and bullied in online spaces due to misinformation and a lot of mischaracterization. So, they keep evidence and receipts in case they are attacked and need to make a case for themselves. It seems crazy, but it used to be WAY worse for reylo shippers
Lmfao y’all reylos are the ones who went out of their way to harass others in the fandom including the actors themselves like the crap that was flung at John Boyega from reylos was disgusting and racist. Most “harassment” that reylos complain about is others calling out their terrible behaviour
The ability to have your characters have their own dialect and a unique voice to them is what hooks me into a novel. I genuinely don't think we'll die without this book.
@@Dropletsojoy what you said, and the fact that it’s gross can BOTH be true. She was targeting a lot of POC and is trying to blame a POC scapegoat? Even if that second part wasn’t intentional, doesn’t change the fact that it looks incredibly gross
@@Dropletsojoy Her fake discord messages literally said "A lot of my bad reviews were for POC authors. When the callout post eventually comes for you, they'll call you a racist too." So racism was definitely the impetus. She targeted a few stray white authors, but the review bombing was heavily concentrated on debut authors of color. There is nothing to be gained from trying deflect from blatant racism.
Fun story: I used to run in cosplay circles with her, and she caused so much drama and lied about people I dropped her after realizing that she was the center of the drama wheel, and things got so much better once I removed her from my life. Never thought I'd see her pop up like this but, well....lol.
@@Hawkatana She was! She went by Commander Cait, and ran in Bioware (dragon age/mass effect) and star wars circles (at least thats where I dealt with her). She was also in Critical Role. It seems she's purged a lot of her cosplay stuff (probably re: her trying to publish? I dont know), but you can still see stuff. As a note: She was a pretty good cosplayer!! I was always impressed by her construction skills and all. That wasn't her issue. It was her attitude/sheer need to cause drama and be a backstabber.
That part made me physically cringe from the second hand embarrassment, it was so obvious it wasn't real, it literally read like a book/fake conversation
Ikr it is such a dumb excuse and creates more stigma around mental illness. It also enables racist behavior because people get too scared to call others out. 🤦♀️
fr, my middle school's 8th grade english department had us learn about how "slavery dehumanizes the enslaver" and "mental health disorders enslavers probably had" because we were reading frederick douglass' autobiography. they really missed the point and it just ended up being ableist and racist all in one. enslavers had free will and abusive power, unlike enslaved people. enslavers were not "also dehumanized". they also had us attribute NPD and SPD (sadistic personality disorder, which is not in the dsm 5) to enslavers.
I think that shitty mental health and racism play well toghether. Let's say you have paranoia. You fear that someone constantly follows you and they want to hurt you. You seek validation because nobody around you takes your feelings seriously. But there's one group which does it. They take those fears very seriously. They say "you're right, somebody wants to get ya". Guess who are those "evil" people? Well, according to white supermacists those are black people
the root cause of both slavery and racism has always been profit and power, not "mental illness". so sickening that someone would use that as an excuse
To be honest, It think what makes her EXTRA DUMB, and what really brought her consequences was review bombing books from her Publishing House. She was literally compromising the financial viability of their other books and that can be seen a corporate sabotage. In the corporate world this is soooooo serious, I don't think she grasped how serious this is.
@@moustik31 No, she committed the sin of actively sabotaging people in her field to promote herself. Imagine if she had an office job, and purposefully sent false complaints about her co-workers to make herself look better. She would be fired. She's an author doing the equivalent of that, and so she's been cancelled. It's also convenient that she only did that to people of colour...
exactly - she not only is insecure and racist, but also extremely dumb. like who tf jeopardizes their livelihood like this?!?! its so hard to get published at all these days - where is the gratitude and understanding of the world. she's more than dumb - ENTITLED
I know Bethany via Twitter and this has been a rough time for her. She's tough, but Black women shouldn't have to be. Black women, especially the disabled, should be given the grace to be soft and happy. Thank you Cindy for discussing this and spreading the truth. We need as many folks with impact out there stating the facts behind this awful situation.
bethany truly dealt with too much caucasity. i hope she has the time and space to rest and also properly grieve over her family death since she was dealing with that too.
I am fuming that this whole thing has robbed Bethany of the time she needed to grieve a death of someone close to her and that she had to deal with people misrepresenting her character. I hope the book community lifts her and her work up and allows her the space to just breathe now.
She should've rewatched Mean Girls beforehand, Regina George knew to keep the nastiest most insulting entry for herself so she could look like a victim instead of the perpetrator
Also if you're gonna make fake message screenshots, why wouldn't you make another account and message back and forth so you don't end up with photoshop mistakes, time inconsistencies, etc?
The reylo that literally sifted through 1.8 mil tweets about reylo and the last jedi is both insane and also a real one lmao they literally said "you're not pinning this on MY fandom" Also a Black woman being pinned with ableism in light of a white woman acting out is truly an Internet Moment of All Time.
Yeah, Meredith gave me a twisted feeling and a bad taste in my mouth. I’ll be avoiding her books in the bookstores. You can’t just keep doubling down when you’re PROVEN WRONG. It’s bad character.
Seriously. Imagine being so self-centered -- so deluded into thinking that only you are allowed to succeed in your industry -- that you'll spend a significant amount of time and effort to actively try to ruin others.
@@opo3628 She got into the habit of writing her self insert fics that she behaved like a self insert character. Makes sense why she would treat her peers like that. She probably didn't see them as a fellow human being, but as some side supporting character in her story
@@puppiesgoesrawr ugh this is so true. People like this are so self-involved, I wonder how many IRL friends or life she even has/had. To be throwing herself into all of this online deceit and damage, it's just such chronically online behavior.
I mean I am also frickking insecure about my writing endeavours... but well I just barely started getting into original writing. So we will see... but I have a feeling I won't ever do this for money. Plus: yes on the book community and their research. I am still grateful for the info that some idiot took my fanfics and uploaded them as books on amazon Kdp... without changing anything.
Literally all she had to do was sit quiet, hype her friends books up so they in turn hype hers up, and wait. Runaway success was guaranteed. She had the book deal of a lifetime. I'm fucking *baffled*
It's such a bummer, I was really interested in the concept to her book too, right up my alley, and now it's fully torpedoed. Oh well, time to real a whole ton of other books that *aren't* written by absolute gooberberries. :D
@@Zaftiquengl given how terrible the dialogue in those fake screenshots are, it made me immediately question her writing ability. Read like a wattpad angst fic
I know - and as evidenced by her fake screenshots - I am so shocked she got a book deal. I could fake convos better than she could. written like fanfic I wrote back in 2003 on xanga ... im a fucking developer who likes math and doesn't WRITE for a living
I think that some people are just their own worst enemy. I don't know about you, but I've met people who just self-sabotage left and right. The only wild thing about this situation is honestly that it played out in public. But people pull shady shit like this all the time, and then have surprised Pikachu face when it blows up in their face.
I don't know how this popped into my feed of recs. But I had Cait accuse me of "stealing her idea" for a fic I had posted years before in the Reylo community. While I was small fish, I had friends who were much bigger fish, so it never went further, and I just let it go. But I can confirm and still have reciepts that shows that targeting "threats" to her works has been a tactic of hers for YEARS. I humbly thank you for giving me closure on an old would, and the knowledge that Karma came for her. Thank you!!!
jesus christ, im sorry this happened. Just goes to show she is still putting up a facade bc this was always her, not the drugs, addiction, or mental illness, she was always in control
So it is really a case of a fanfic writer thinking they can pull the same shit in a real life business deal as in an online fanfic forum... that's a very convoluted sense of reality.
Not Corrain getting the "leave this poor baby alone! What more do you want from her? She said sorry! 🥺" treatment while a black woman is burned at the stake for venting her frustation about being targetted by THAT VERY PERSON!!
I mean, Scooby-Doo villains were rich white people who wanted to keep their status, but they also did a lot of set up. This is more like lazy Msscribe.
The funniest part is, after making all those goodreads accounts, Cait couldn't be bothered to make a second discord account as "Lilly" and fake messages that way
@@brkh96 i know righttttt the entire time cindy was talking about how the padding was messed up i was like why in gods name would you photoshop texts???? like sis??? what???
The way she couldn't even think to "censor" the name to explain away more of the misalignment weirdness also gets to me. She could have literally just thrown a messy bar over it and it would be way harder to clock, but nah.
She learned that Regina George (I have no idea) has some name recognition and a story on the internet. Now y'all are helping her to get the same thing. Fame or infamy pays off eventually.
I don’t mean to judge Cait’s nefarious, mustache twirling, racist plans, but making multiple accounts just to have all of them like each other’s comments and rate Cait’s book 5 stars is a mistake not even 9th graders stalking people on instagram tend to make
i'm /majorly/ into star wars but never interact with fellow fans and from what little i know of reylos they all seem pretty crazy and defensive. this drama tracks from what i know of them, rabid and poor writers.😭
Thea Guanzon lives in the Philippines too so her getting published internationally is a BIG deal. In the height of her reylo fic days, so many people anticipate whenever she drops a chapter. And from time to time she shares snippets of her life to a majorly-western fandom. I feel like Cait (even if she was friends with Thea) couldn’t accept that a non-native speaker can write better than her.
In the convo with 'Lilly' she could've replied with "What?!?!?!" and faked a 15-20 minute long phone call. It would've seen more normal and she wouldn't have had to make up an unnatural sounding conversation in which she sounds like, uh. I don't even know
Poor planning on her part IMO. You have to create the fake accounts several months in advance, build them up so they look like regular accounts, post varying reviews, negative positive and mid, and act enthusiastic about other works maybe in other genres so they're not a threat to you, so THEN you can proceed with your downvoting campaign, and don't do it all at once, that's suspicious. If you're gonna be a villain do it RIGHT!
She should've created more accounts and not intersect all the accounts she had in one book, like all 8 accounts liking a one star review. Some accounts would review, but not like, some accounts would review and like, and some accounts would like but not review. Maybe 30+ or so accounts just to be safe. Also, as you said, she should've had some varying reviews and ratings on some other books that are 4-5 star, but I guess she couldn't do this since she's too self-absorbed. I personally think she did all of this without using her head and just thinking casually that it won't be dug too deep. If she's going to cause drama like she usually does, she should've truly planned better.
Regarding "believing authors can't truly be cancelled", Cait's biggest mistake was doing this stuff way BEFORE her book came out. Most authors that survive getting canceled have a readerbase/backlog to fall back on, but she's a debut trad author who burned all her bridges in the communities she was in; not just with other trad authors, but with her Reylo crew. She doesn't actually have the audience to keep her afloat or go back to after being cancelled. If she had waited until the Illumicrate book had come out before going mask off bitter bee, then surely she would have had a least a FEW dedicated readers who either don't know or don't care about twitter drama; it's also possible that the contracts would have been far enough along that her partners wouldn't have been able to cancel project(s) easily because they would have been too far along/too invested to take that loss, and would have instead helped her salvage as much of the situation as they could in order to remake the money spent on her before quietly not offering her anything else. But her need to be ahead of the other authors bit her hard. (Also, being able to lie at least halfway decently would have helped her get away with it.) I will never understand people who target nonwhite authors this way. Like, it's SO much work, targeted effort, for... what??? Being ahead of them??? Like she already was, it seems, given that she had a massive contact with talk of movie rights as a debut author? I'm continuously fascinated by the way these wackos 'pick' their targets. I just can't comprehend spending this much time and effort to be an unpleasant wench toward complete and utter strangers. Even if they're your 'competition.' This is 2010s tumblr using anon to send hateful messages and then one positive message as your actual account in order to make the other user like you level of plotting and execution. And she forgot to hit anon on one of the hate messages. I feel sorry for everyone involved, but especially Bethany, who really didn't deserve to be the unfortunate centerpiece of this spiraling debacle. I hope all the affected authors go on to have long, successful careers, cuz Cait is never gonna get those opportunities again. Imagine throwing away a fast-track to your dream career to give out some 1 star reviews of books you never read.
But that's the point isn't it. She was afraid of how her book WOULD do. If she waited until her book had come out and received rave reviews (the plot sounded promising), she wouldn't have done shit like this at all (or at least, wouldn't need to)
@@maurinet2291 Nah, she isn't notable enough for a memoir about it. She might feature in someone else's book chronicling author career bombs, as a case study.
Unfortunately, a lot of privileged people, on being told they had a head start in the race, decide that it's therefore shameful not to stay ahead and finish ahead by an appropriate margin. They point to marginalised peeps who have achieved amazing things and go, "If you're celebrating them, you're basically saying *I suck* because I had all these "advantages" and they still overtook me!" ... because they're secretly afraid that they're not actually an exceptional, hardworking writer, but that actually literally any rando could achieve everything they have and more with the same access to great contacts, education, advice, and a financial safety net. It's why they'll try to cast doubt on the impact of inequality, or emphasise their own disadvantages like mental health etc. Basically it's all about protecting their self-image as a gifted, exceptional person who didn't squander their advantages, and they're so entitled, they don't care who gets hurt along the way.
As someone who has depression and anxiety, and has tried many medications I can assure you none of them made me racist. Her 'apology' post really just dug her grave even deeper.
@@AdorableFennec Her "mental breakdown" caused her to create a very elaborate plan to sabotage her competitors and then double down with another elaborate plan faking Discord conversation screenshots 💀 I'm no psychologist but I ain't never met a single person who would do all of that careful thinking while having a mental breakdown
"Try Happysin! The newest depression drug on the market! Lift your spirits and get on with your day! *Warning: Side effects may include constipation, reading minds, becoming racist and suddenly hating dogs* "
Can I just credit YOU, Cindy, for the incredible research and presentation you have done here? You brilliantly linked this situation to the broader context of systemic racism in larger society. Well DONE. I'm glad my friend recommended your channel.
Mental illness and substances don’t make people racist or want to sabotage innocent people. Cait thought she could get away with this when she’s not as smart and strategic as she thinks. In reality, she doesn’t think. It’s why her scheme looks very much like a bumbling villain sidekick and why she got caught so easily.
THANK you! I keep saying this! If it's not in you already, substances and/or your mental illness can't bring it out! It has to be in there for it to come to the forefront!
Fr. I'm hella mentally ill but it doesn't make me pull shit like this. Mentally ill people are perfectly capable of being held accountable for our actions. Being symptomatic sucks and can hurt us and other people sometimes. We can apologize, make amends, and move on. But this? It's premeditated. Don't put this evil on mental illness, please
Mental illness doesn't make you an asshole. I've got my fair share of disorders that are pretty well managed at this point. I've also got a *lot* of both personal and professional experience with people who have all kinds of mental illnesses, in all kinds of levels of care. Even amongst those withe the "most severe" conditions were some of the kindest and most empathetic people I've ever met, and most just want to be able to live as "normal" a life that they can. Yes, some people with mental illness can be abusive or violent, but not at rates much different from the general population, and they are *much* more likely to be the victims of abuse and violence than the general population. 10 times more likely acording to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) It really bothere me to hear "mentally ill" being used in place of "bad," especially from someone who is standing up for other marginalized groups. I hope they're just under informed, which I would understand, as it is an annoyingly common misconception. Otherwise idk how else to take it than "they're bad because they're different" which is just a different kind of prejudice, and one that people struggling with mental health issues do not need more help internalizing.
Mentally ill white author here who has been battling depression and anxiety since my childhood years, and most recently diagnosed with ADHD. I've been on several medications while trying to lock down my "med combo". I would never even think of doing something like this to fellow authors. Also, it makes me angry (and disappointed) to see that only when backed into a corner did she apologize, then blamed it all on mental illness and alcoholism (which I've seen extensively, firsthand, in my family). Never has this made me or them racist. Like...wtf?!
Yuuuuuup. PTSD, ADHD, depression, anxiety. I feel you. It's been difficult to write much of the time, but the thing to remember is: progress, not perfection.
I believe her mental health and addiction struggles are valid, but her whole statement felt manipulative. We know she’s already great at being performative and the apology reeked of the same behavior she exhibited in her convo with the artist of color and her fake screenshots.
I actually don't know why we are expected to believe the mental illness/addiction thing. This woman is a KNOWN liar. Why would we believe this story? Nahhh. Whatever!
Because most people who suffer from mental illness and addiction don't do what she did. This was meticulous, calculated and required a TON of effort on her part to see this through.
From what I know of recovered addicts, addiction can cause them to do bad things, *but* you’re still very much accountable for your bad behavior. It’s a shame she had so many opportunities to make amends. None of the authors wanted her to lose her career, they just wanted her to fix things. Maybe this’ll be her wake up call, though probably not. I’m definitely going to check out the authors who were review bombed when they debut. I hope they all get the success they deserve.
Seriously, how do you fumble a bag SO HARD so close to the finish line?! Like, this is how you choose to end the year?! Somebody take notes please because this is special.
idk ... something about her apology is low-key inspiring. If she can start several sock puppets on GoodReads to reviewbomb her "competition" and prop her up and THEN try to (poorly) cover up her tracks with shittily doctored discord screencaps - all the while (allegedly) in the midst of a mental breakdown... well dang - my ADHD ass can clean my room. (/s)
“Meanwhile, women of color are demonized for being slightly off-putting or annoying.” 😭 This hits way too close to home and I’ve been bearing the brunt of it since childhood and still do to this day.
To be fair, women across the board in general get told this regardless of color. Not all, but a lot of men don't like strong vocal women so we get told this.
@@sweetoleander9048I’m sorry but your comment is insensitive and untrue. Women of color are unfairly put to standards of behavior that white women are not, you just do not know the difference because you will never be a person of color. white women of course face misogyny, but women of color face misogyny, racism, and importantly, the integration of both those things. As cindy said, this woman made a mistake and had multiple opportunities to come clean and apologize and did not; have you ever even heard of a woman of color doing something like this? I mean this very gently and kindly, but I would implore you to reflect and try to become self aware of how whiteness benefits white women.
one of the more disgusting if not the most disgusting part of this is that Bethany had to defend themself against claims of ableism while cait was allowed to hide and then throw their substance addiction at the issue as if any of the prescribed meds have racism as a side effect listed on them. overall terrible behavior and i really hope cait never tries to come back under a different pen name!
@@Remi226-f5e I suppose I may have worded my original comment poorly but I don't think it really felt like a choice to Bethany who was being subbed by other authors about her comment being perceived as ableist as well as her tweet and Meredith's involvement gaining more attention than the issue at hand which was Cait's poor decision making. When I said Cait was allowed to hide behind her substance abuse I meant she was able to sit back, lock her social media down and come up with another excuse (because that is what it feels like- no medicine or alcohol makes you racist. You just are.) and leave Bethany to the wolves while Bethany was already in a distressed state as she was mourning a loss of a close family member. Cait got to run off and hide while Bethany had to defend herself, and then in her "apology" she barely even addressed it.
@@Remi226-f5eis it a choice if you have nothing to hide behind and dont want your work effected by peoples stupidity and inability to do research and just pounce on her
@@AprilSayI personally think the albino snake backlash was manufactured to try and delegitimize Bethany's points. Like an albino snake is an actual animal, and trying to frame it as a disabled woman making a dig at albinism is just crass.
@@tarotsushima3332After searching around a bit, I can't seem to find the albino snake species she was referring to. From the looks of it, albino snakes does tend to be the term used to describe any snake with the albinism mutation. I know Bethany would never target or speak poorly of people with albinism, but I can see how some people might end up misinterpreting her words. Still, the backlash she got was unwarranted and excessive, she didn't deserve any of that.
This whole thing just reeks of insecurity and I think thats the worst part of it. (Besides the blatant racism of course) She literally had everything they could've ever wanted and they threw it all away...
It's interesting. There does seem to be a part of humans that is fully aware of our own actions like this, but other aspects of the mind cover this up to protect the self-image, or something. I'm thinking about when bullies accuse other people of bullying them, all that projecting behavior that they assume other people are acting as conniving as they are.
Not to downplay Cait's personal problems, but starting an apology with "oh I'm struggling with this and this and this" will always come across as sympathy fishing. It would be so much better if she would have just opened with, yes I did that, I'm sorry, and here's my explanation: I have this and this and this, which pushed me to these actions without thinking it through if it was a good idea or not. Leading with their your own struggles makes it seem like they don't actually care how other people struggled because of them
Agree on leading with struggles. A counterpoint to the "here's my explanation"--that comes across as "can you give me a little bit of a pass pwease? uwu you can see how hard it was for me to be good." The only time IMO it would be relevant to bring one's struggles up at all is in explaining to someone you personally have a relationship with that "I understand some of the factors that contributed to me engaging in this bad behavior, so I have some ideas of first steps I can take to start to reshape what I'm working with in my psyche and my life so that I'm better equipped to do better. I'm going to start with what seems to be a relevant direction of treatment, and not give up if that isn't exactly what I need, but continue pressing ahead to further and further hone in one finding what I need to equip myself to be the best version of myself." The goal with the latter is to help the people in your life manage their expectations of you, to let them know that YOU know some of the causes of this behavior coming out, let them know that you're invested in changing that behavior, and that you're approaching it in a realistic way. "The way for me to not do this as a pattern is not by simply knowing ''It's bad don't do it,' it's a process of behavioral change. It will take time. BUT, I'm starting, and building a real foundation will be actually reliable in the long term." I'm not actually sure if it's genuinely productive to relate a message like the latter to the public at large? If sincerely meant, in the end you'll go through with the therapy anyway and continually persist in helping yourself be better equipped to do better, your actions will speak louder in the long run. The prerequisite question is, what's my goal with writing this letter to the public? To take some of the heat off myself? Because the sympathy and "leave britney alone" comments that Cindy showed seemed to accomplish that. Is the goal to undo some of the harm? Then it would have been much more productive to say like "I did it, it was NOT okay. To try to undo some of the damage I did with the review-bombing, I would like to recommend everyone check out X, and Y, and Z, and Q, and R, and S, and L authors. I apologize publicly to those I dragged through the mud publicly, like [whatshername] who I accused of being ableist. That was a manipulative deflection and it wasn't okay. She's not ableist." and importantly, to have already done the personal, private apologies FIRST, so that the ones directly impacted know that she prioritized sincerity over what would otherwise be a PR move.
Thank you for articulating this! Addiction and mental illness (as Cait claimed) can lead to bad actions and behavior. But you’re still accountable. I feel like so many apologies phrase it as a way to have some absolution instead of “I have X which lead to me doing Y and that’s not okay and I’m going to now work on improving it etc etc.”
I appreciate the candidness that comes with telling your past haters where to block you. In an era where the block button and black lists are within a single button’s reach at any time, it’s almost refreshing to see someone point at it and say ‘ this one. This is the one to push if you don’t like me. Just do it. Save us both the stupidity. ‘
@RodrickMarsMoon Regina George would've made sure the reviews were at different times and wouldn't like the other reviews and would've reviewed EVERYONE not mostly POC and wouldn't have reviewed her own book and if one person started being suspicious of her she would've started negatively reviewing her book and positively reviewing the author she wanted to take the falls book
Seeing the reylos come out of the woodworks with receipts (considering the deep history of many reylos and racism) is making me feel like that scene with Legolas and Gimli. “Never thought I’d die fighting side by side with an reylo.” “What about side by side with a friend?” “Aye, I could do that”
Massive respect. According to their TikTok, they said that they were only quiet before because the other authors asked them to try and let themselves solve it privately first
It's sad to see other writers tear each other down, as a writer, it's dissapointing to see. Authors work hard, especially authors of color struggle to make it in the industry, so to just take away their opportunities away from them is beyond disgusting. It's almost 2024, people should grow up
@@withcindy Exactly. Like why would she undermine other writers trying to do what she was doing herself? Did she really think that she was the only person doing a sci-fi retelling of greek myths? I'm sure there's at least 10 books with a similar idea to hers lol.
This story really has it all: betrayal, lying, alt accounts, mental illness, racism, jealousy, harassment, and the Reylo fandom. If this were a fictional story, the main criticism would be how sloppy and melodramatic it is, not including the Reylo shippers.
as someone with bipolar disorder, having manic episodes that can result in intense review-bombing of other creators seems totally within the realms of possibility. the racism though?????? yeah no
You know… …you’d probably really enjoy the movie “Zola” if you’ve not seen/heard of it yet. Literally a movie based from a WILD Twitter thread. Great film.
Funny how even in the fake exchange with the invented person, a lot of the descriptions of the damage are still softened ("damage you could have done") and centered on herself and her name rather than the people targeted supposedly on her behalf. Like she couldn't even manufacture the rage coming from the right places, if she were actually in the situation she invented
To be fair, even a good person in real situation like this would likely center themselves in a private conversation with the wrongdoer, especially with a supposed friend. The fact that she didn't try to paint herself in as positive light as possible in those fake DMs is probably the most well thought out aspect of her deception attempt
Tbf this did look bad on Cait if this really wasn't her fault so I'd get the fear but goddamn?? At least pretend to care about the other people you hurt???
@@dopaminedrought395 It's interesting how bigoted attitudes really echo narcissism. It's not _just_ narcissists who are bigots, either, because people who in most situations (where they aren't exposed to the objects of their bigotry) are decently well-adjusted and courteous can also pop out of left field with that BS
Idk how "left" you can even be when you actively tear down people of color by threatening their livelihood like this. This is straight right wing behavior.
As a writer and an author, I always tell other writers that we are not in competition. What reader has a single book in their library? None. Not only that, readers read faster than the fastest author can write so they're are always looking hungrily for their next meal. The supply is slow the demand is high and that voracious reading monster wants more books. I know this because I'm also part of that voracious monster. I have a huge TBR pile because I hate the feeling of not having my next read lined up. So Cait Corrain ruined a promising career for nothing with some weird idea that similar books would would somehow cancel hers. Huh? No, that's not how it works. Similar books enhance one another. So while I'm at this, I would love to find another book like The Will of Many (already read Red Rising).
I saw all this unfold starting with Xiran's tweets and every time I thought it couldn't get worse, every update proved me wrong. It's so crazy how someone can just throw away their entire career that way. Ironically, this gave more spotlight to all the victims and I'm so happy to see their books promoted.
xiran's recent tweet about cait pretending to be lilly and saying she reviewed mostly POC authors and would be deemed racist... that level of consciousness gagged me
I cannot believe she threw EVERYTHING away like this. She had so much that everyone else dreams of and works so hard for. I do believe she has mental illness because otherwise it makes nooooo sense to act that way and throw their whole career away like this, but obviously mental illness does not make you racist lmao
@@thegazetteyt no absolutely. I think she wanted to do these things and did them, but I do think some degree of mental illness is involved for her to follow through with such an idiotic idea. It’s not normal to have so much going for you and sabotage yourself this way. It spanned months though iirc so this clearly isn’t a single manic episode like she’s trying to frame it as. She comes off as mentally ill AND racist /a bad person, to me. I’m glad she got her comeuppance 👍🏽
i love that too! especially loved how fastly she read the screenshots, it's like when you recap drama to a friend fast enough to not lose their attention and get to the even juicier parts 😂
Cindy’s ability to speak is SO underrated. No verbal stalls or interruptions, probably no script, just 30+ minutes making every word count. It’s lovely
I heard the “i want to boost other marginalized creators whenever possible” paused the video and stared dumbstruck across my room for a solid ten seconds
I just kept imagining her in a different colored wig as you were reading her doctored messages. The level of delusion and confident to think she would get away with it.
I actually don't hate that the publishing industry is white. It's their culture. Chinese publishing would be majority Chinese, right? Japanese publishers and anime producers, writers and directors as well as distributers would be majority Japanese.
@@lilysiandaza4296 I am saying that Africa is also running a Decolonization Movement. They're questioning if it's right to adapt to Colonial systems - including British reading and writing systems. Africans did have a written language, they just forgot and the scholars are working to bring it back. If this is successful then black Americans could adopt that instead of trying to infiltrate systems that DO NOT want them there.
I had a serious mental breakdown earlier this year and during it, I got so paranoid that I was convinced that one of my friends was in an abusive relationship (she’s fine, the other person was just kind of shitty but not dangerous at all). In that time, I did some pretty serious things, including calling a bunch of people and telling them my theory, which caused a lot of stress and confusion. I can see how someone could do something like this under the effects of alcoholism or mental breakdown. That being said, while her actions were likely influenced by breakdown, the insecurity and the RACISM had to have existed before. Perhaps she did things that were more extreme or unconscionable due to mental illness but they could only have exaggerated a feeling that was already there. Alcoholism or medications don’t make you racist girl, you were already racist before.
yeah i agree, someone else also made the point that if those reviews were actually a mistake she would’ve deleted them! she was clearly aware of them and chose to keep them up
Yeah usually it's underlying shit that comes up in my experience too. My greatest fears are dying too young and losing the people I love most too soon. When I recently went through a minor med change for anxiety, these fears became all-consuming. To the point where if I didn't hear back from my girlfriend or my mom for an hour or so I'd fear they were in danger, and at another point I also had convinced myself I probably had cancer (thank god I'm in Canada with a good family doctor who was able to put that fear to bed for me quickly).
And we're all born into a racist society, and we've all done racist things before. Most of us (hopefully) learn from our mistakes, apologize, and take steps to repair the situation. The difference here, is her purposefully harmful actions, and complete doubling down. Just an absolute refusal to learn or do better.
Yeah, honestly while I get the point about Cait being able to step out of the public eye being a privilege denied to POC, I think the best thing for absolutely everyone is for her to stay out of the public eye now. Maybe for ever.
Thank you so much for calling out that one other author in the middle of this, when I first heard that I wanted to roll my eyes so quickly, there’s nothing that bugs me more than a person getting half the facts and then being petty and stubborn and acting like they had done their research when really they've jumped to conclusions and wanted to be the main character of the drama. Those folks have more patience than me, I would have whipped out the "??? Yo, this ain't about you" and shut that down so fast. You don't even need to name drop them to say clearly and explain that they don't know what's the actual drama going on...
During the reading of the "Lily" convo, I was just picturing Cait sitting there on her little couch, aggressively yelling at a sock puppet she's holding. Highly reccomend that visual.
I pictured it a la Lord of the Rings, that convo Gollum has with themselves and proceeds to tell himself that no one likes him. Tho I'd say Tolkien was the better writer here
the fact that she rated every book of hers five stars on her other goodreads accounts is just- like if you’re gonna do this at least rate a FEW books of yours low so nobody would suspect you. idk if she thought it would hurt her fragile ego, but if you’re gonna do this, at least do it right.
Creepshowart was much, much worse than Cait. To give Cait some credit, she didn't marry a grapist and proceed to stalk and harass her victim over multiple years along with her horrible husband. But I get what you mean
watching this actively play out on twitter through the week was WILD. this type of thing happens a lot on small scale in fandom spaces, and i think that was cait's biggest mistake: they treated a traditional publishing career like it was fandom, where you can be petty and instigate drama, lie, and get away with nonsense. but you can't do that, not in the traditional publishing world. if i had to guess, the reason she finally confessed was because her publisher surely got involved, and she was forced to either lie to her *publisher* and get in deeper trouble (as surely there would be a further investigation into who was responsible for slandering their debut author), or just tell the truth and lose everything. like xiran and bethany said, this could've been handled privately. if cait had owned up to it, deleted their bad reviews and sock puppet accounts, and apologized properly, she probably wouldn't have lost her book deal. publishers RARELY pull books less than 6 months from release. this was such a huge deal with massive fallout. cait had the golden ticket of publishing (a good book deal, supportive marketing, a seemingly going-to-be-big debut) and threw it all away.
that's a really good point about treating her professional career as if it were fandom! and yes, her apology at the very end is hard to accept bc she had already been given so many chances to come clean or come to her senses. but this had been premeditated and she refused at every chance to stop or make amends until she had no other choice.
The way you connected her actions to fandom behaviour makes so much sense 🙌 Like I was sitting here listening to this whole mess of events thinking “Who would ever do this? This is so unprofessional!”. But then you said she was acting like she was in a fandom and it all clicked 😮. B/c I have def seen this type of messiness in relation to fan works, but never thought anyone in their right mind would bring it into the real world 😅. But I guess that was my own naivety.
Oh my goodness. I don't even go here -- I'm not into Star Wars at all and the last book I read was on a 19th century shipwreck -- but when i read that one line about how she was the lightning rod for Reylo drama all I could think was that's because she started it all, didn't she? Maybe even with sockpuppets. Might have run across a few of those back in my bad old fandom days. Maybe.
@@withLoveJoyKing yeah see i was literally sitting watching this all play out over twitter wondering the same as everyone, "how could someone possibly do this?", when it dawned on me that it was just straight up fandom style behavior. absolutely mind boggling!
It's interesting that in her conversation with "Lily" Cait attacks "Lily" and rips her for risking Cait's career and the impact it has on Cait, even when she's trying to cover for herself she only sees herself.
This is the most delectably insane story. It really kicks up a notch with the fake conversation that she wrote. RF Kuang is probably kicking herself that she didn't have a subplot in Yellowface with this exact scandal.
"How patronising that is? How humiliating? The damage you couldve done?" she thought she ate 😭 the screenshots read like a confrontation scene in a bad fanfic, idk how she thought anyone would think those real
@@j.yang7as a fanfic author who deals with my own clunky dialogue all the time (including monologues and weird exposition dialogue). This is definitely true 😅
this gave me flashbacks to jk rowlings recent book which rants for 900 million pages about cyber bullying and how negative it is, like the desperate pettiness and effort put into positioning yourself as the victim will never compare to how much idgf
I have a friend who was briefly roommates with Cait and could not stand living with them and moved out after like a month. So I think Cait is just bad vibes all around. Also, this friend is a classics Ph.D student who studies Dionysius and Cait didn’t want their research help…
I was friends with her for like a month and had to end the relationship when she started trying to tell me how i had to conduct my life so it could revolve around her and she equated me laying boundaries to me being "damaged and taking it out on her." shes a thoroughly controlling narcissist
This has the same vibes of me as a child on roblox bullying then when I get called out, I say that my sister was on my account.
Omg ur right
But you've got self-awareness tho, so good for you 🩵
the sister / brother excuse ohh 😭
@pancakeshottakes I'm willing to bet the author is also self-aware, she's just delusional in thinking that gaslighting will work.
Or when you said something risky to your crush over text and then saying a friend took your phone
Girl really went with the “within me there are two wolves” ass excuse. You right girl, one is racist, the other is racist
LOL
😂
lmao
Bye 😂✋
BOOM! lol
The way the fake Discord convo read so much like book dialogue instead of real dialogue was such a dead giveaway.
You mean you don't yell "I TRUSTED YOU!!" in Discord DMs? Shocking. 😂
Real dialogue in a soap opera
Shitty exposition and all lmao
"Remember the other day when you said you were worried about other authors in your imprint group..." Lol
@@BE-ew2pt it was the multiple exclamation marks for me😂
I fuckin love this whole bit I wish there were more fake Discord conversations like this Cindy could read out
2023 started with an author faking her own death and ended with another author digging her own grave
Omg ur so right
Talk about bookends.
The circle of life 😂
What a year 🎉❤
someone faked their death???
You're kidding me! A 2 book deal *and* potential movie rights? Out the gate?! This woman had success and fortune all but handed to her on a silver f*cking platter. The lifelong dream of *so many* aspiring writers... and literally all she had to do was keep her head down. I just cannot believe someone could throw all of that away *just because* she had to be spiteful and insecure toward other creators who did nothing to her. Disgraceful doesn't cover it.
Exactly like she literally had one job😅
And she got a special edition of her book ready to be sold out the gate.
she only got picked up because her story fit the current boring woke narrative
On top of that, the book is C R A P. This *must* have been a nepo deal.
She still had to write the book, to be fair. It's just mindboggling that someone would kill their own career with this level of pettiness. @@paulwoodford1984
The way she faked this story is not a huge endorsement of her as a writer…. Make it believable sis
It’s like she saw Creepshowart and decided that is the level of fuckery she wanted.
Nice to see you!!!! I feel like we have the same recommended page. See you at the next blackswan upload.
this was like getting a sneak peek into her writing and plotting skills and we can now have an accurate assessment of the quality
@@withcindywhat quality? i think you mean the lack thereof 😅
For real. Quite honestly, if that climatic Discord confrontation with "Lilly" is an example of Cait's best, most convincing writing...sorry, not sorry, but I can't imagine that Crown of Starlight is any good to begin with.
Not Cindy giving advice on how her plan could have been better executed 😭😭
I'm just sayinnnn if ur gonna be petty at least do it right 😪
The way it's literally how Regina George used the burn book against Cady in Mean Girls 😭😭
@@spudrina This is exactly what I thought!
Shit, I've even fabricated Discord chat convos myself in the past by logging into one account on an incognito tab and the other on a main tab. She had all those fake accounts, it was laughably easy to switch from a Discord handle on her phone to a Discord handle on her laptop.
@@spudrinashe literally had the perfect guide right there yet still failed spectacularly 😂
What personally offended me the most through this whole mess is the piss poor villainy. Somehow Cait managed to make every worst decision at every stage.
I see an icon has entered the chat
This is truly Nickelodeon live action tv show level bad guy behavior.
And she would’ve gotten away with it too we’re it not for those meddling kids
I always see stuff like this as doubly insulting. Like… come on, if you’re going to be an utter shithead at least have the courtesy of being smart about it…
I love your writing ✨
I love how the "Lily" person goes from having the mental capacity of a child and seemingly not understanding that their actions have consequences, to a mastermind supervillain concocting an entire smear campaign against the author.
The character development was pretty poorly done imo. But after the twist ending it all came together
Maybe the real “Lily” was the friends we made along the way.
So glad this book didn't get published after all because what was that twist
The thing is, these people actually exist. This is how psychopath operate.
@@cosmosadorabilis7677don’t slander cluster b’s like this
i cannot overstate how much i despise that her "apology" started out with "oh i was struggling through all these things" instead of taking ownership of her actions first and foremost
Yeah its such a cop out excuse, especially when it involves other people like here. Like okay, you were struggling but do you think those authors werent struggling as well? Along with their creations being bombed in the spotlight? As an aspiring amateur author, this pisses me off
Bestie spotted in the wild
To be honest, looking at her behaviour and how coordinated this all was, I'd have to say that it has less to do with mental health and other struggles and more to do with the fact that she was jealous that other writers were being published and getting the same attention she was.
The fact that she went after writers who were people of colour is very telling. Honestly, this author is just disgusting.
It's basically just another version of the "Mel Gibson excuse." In other words, it's a total crock of s**t.
White women are steadily finding out that "mental health" isn't a fucking shield.
I’m actually dying at the fake conversation… and LMAO WHAT MEDS MAKE YOU RACIST
Ambien?? Lol I think someone blamed that for their racism once. I think Roseanne Barr but don't quote me
none, she's just throwing out excuses for her bs behaviour
@@Authorthingsthe brand made a whole azz public statement that’s bigotry isn’t a side effect of their drug 😂
@@Authorthingsit was roseanne barr!!! after she said smth about planet of the apes ab a black woman her excuse was the effects of ambien 😭
According to Roseanne Barr, ambien. (This is a joke)
cindy casually dropping that there's someone in the reylo fandom who keeps historical logs of every tweet on the website mentioning them like that isn't one of the most insane things i've ever read with my eyes
If they’re physically taking screen shots that’s even more insane but I’ve seen fandom bots do this elsewhere. It’s some brain worm shit
Yeah I was also like "how unhinged does one have to be to do that??" 😭 I swear Reylos are a different breed
If I had to infer as to why that is, there’s a long history of Reylos being harassed and bullied in online spaces due to misinformation and a lot of mischaracterization. So, they keep evidence and receipts in case they are attacked and need to make a case for themselves. It seems crazy, but it used to be WAY worse for reylo shippers
Have seen some truly awful reylos but I see a reylo and I turn the other way and go about my day, so I wouldn't know about any decent ones.
Lmfao y’all reylos are the ones who went out of their way to harass others in the fandom including the actors themselves like the crap that was flung at John Boyega from reylos was disgusting and racist. Most “harassment” that reylos complain about is others calling out their terrible behaviour
I'm sorry but "and I have a job, so imagine someone that can carry out this jobless behavior" made me laugh pretty hard
My job is actually to make u laugh 💓
Same! "Jobless behavior" had me letting out the UGLIEST cackle 😂
* me drowning in my assignment* How does anyone have time to hate someone smh
Judging from the exchange between lily and cate, I can tell we didn't lose a big writing prodigy...
the way i could tell the quality of her writing just by that weirdass convo she tried to put together lol
The ability to have your characters have their own dialect and a unique voice to them is what hooks me into a novel. I genuinely don't think we'll die without this book.
the best part is that cait was known in the reylo fandom for writing fanfics featuring fake discord convos between the characters
@@mina352 after watching the whole video, this comment is what did me in, omg
LMAO!! I said the same thing to my friend xD like wow this dialogue is awful!
The fact that she created names to sound more "ethnic," I am absolutely disgusted.
Why? Only makes sense she’d do that….I would’ve assumed she did that personally tho she sucked at being sneaky in most areas.
@@6Haunted-Days why are you questioning that they’re disgusted by that? it’s obvious why it’s a gross tactic
She even said her parents are Chinese in one of the reviews
@@Dropletsojoy what you said, and the fact that it’s gross can BOTH be true. She was targeting a lot of POC and is trying to blame a POC scapegoat? Even if that second part wasn’t intentional, doesn’t change the fact that it looks incredibly gross
@@Dropletsojoy Her fake discord messages literally said "A lot of my bad reviews were for POC authors. When the callout post eventually comes for you, they'll call you a racist too." So racism was definitely the impetus.
She targeted a few stray white authors, but the review bombing was heavily concentrated on debut authors of color.
There is nothing to be gained from trying deflect from blatant racism.
I’m not gonna lie, her fake ass convo with Miss Lilly had me weakk. Sis was writing wattpad text messages with HERSELF 😂
It was like a teen drama lol
That's my favorite part of this whole drama.
The OOC chat fics from QUIZILLA had me immersed than her overdraamtic goofy back and fourth.
It’s something I would’ve done in early high school while struggling with weird ass mental illness and attention seeking thingssssss
"Lol, your move." Had me ascending into the next plane.
Fun story: I used to run in cosplay circles with her, and she caused so much drama and lied about people I dropped her after realizing that she was the center of the drama wheel, and things got so much better once I removed her from my life. Never thought I'd see her pop up like this but, well....lol.
She was in the cosplay community?
@@Hawkatana She was! She went by Commander Cait, and ran in Bioware (dragon age/mass effect) and star wars circles (at least thats where I dealt with her). She was also in Critical Role. It seems she's purged a lot of her cosplay stuff (probably re: her trying to publish? I dont know), but you can still see stuff.
As a note: She was a pretty good cosplayer!! I was always impressed by her construction skills and all. That wasn't her issue. It was her attitude/sheer need to cause drama and be a backstabber.
@@WhenNerdsAttack Wow. It feels like the more I learn, the less I understand.
A few people have said that about her! I can't understand how someone can have this much hatred/need for drama in their heart
What did she do exactly? if you dont mind sharing
The fake conversation between her and "Lily" had me CACKLING. Cait wants to be Feyre so bad
That part made me physically cringe from the second hand embarrassment, it was so obvious it wasn't real, it literally read like a book/fake conversation
Like calls to like 🥴
I agree but... Why feyre? 🤔
@@belflorxochitl5851 Because Cait's book has the ACoTaR naming convention 😂
You'd think Lily would have been blocked way before that personality shift 🤔
i am so tired of atrocious behavior rooted in systemic issues (racism usually) being attributed to mental illness.
Ikr it is such a dumb excuse and creates more stigma around mental illness. It also enables racist behavior because people get too scared to call others out. 🤦♀️
fr, my middle school's 8th grade english department had us learn about how "slavery dehumanizes the enslaver" and "mental health disorders enslavers probably had" because we were reading frederick douglass' autobiography. they really missed the point and it just ended up being ableist and racist all in one. enslavers had free will and abusive power, unlike enslaved people. enslavers were not "also dehumanized". they also had us attribute NPD and SPD (sadistic personality disorder, which is not in the dsm 5) to enslavers.
It tracks though, so often when a usually white mass shooter is born, it's blamed on mental health too 🤷🏿♀️
I think that shitty mental health and racism play well toghether. Let's say you have paranoia. You fear that someone constantly follows you and they want to hurt you. You seek validation because nobody around you takes your feelings seriously. But there's one group which does it. They take those fears very seriously. They say "you're right, somebody wants to get ya". Guess who are those "evil" people? Well, according to white supermacists those are black people
the root cause of both slavery and racism has always been profit and power, not "mental illness". so sickening that someone would use that as an excuse
To be honest, It think what makes her EXTRA DUMB, and what really brought her consequences was review bombing books from her Publishing House. She was literally compromising the financial viability of their other books and that can be seen a corporate sabotage. In the corporate world this is soooooo serious, I don't think she grasped how serious this is.
I think that's the real reason why she got dropped by everyone, it's extremely unprofessional
She committed the grave sin of not being a "team player" in her publishing company "family".
😬
@@moustik31 No, she committed the sin of actively sabotaging people in her field to promote herself. Imagine if she had an office job, and purposefully sent false complaints about her co-workers to make herself look better. She would be fired. She's an author doing the equivalent of that, and so she's been cancelled. It's also convenient that she only did that to people of colour...
wow the levels of dumbfuckery of this runs sooo deep
exactly - she not only is insecure and racist, but also extremely dumb. like who tf jeopardizes their livelihood like this?!?! its so hard to get published at all these days - where is the gratitude and understanding of the world. she's more than dumb - ENTITLED
She was fighting her demons in the DMs 😭
That DM conversation has got to be a therapy exercise 😭
Me vs the dog in me
😂😂😂😂😂 and they won!
She had her little Dr Jeckyl and Mr Hyde moment (I'm sure I butchered the name)
I know Bethany via Twitter and this has been a rough time for her. She's tough, but Black women shouldn't have to be. Black women, especially the disabled, should be given the grace to be soft and happy. Thank you Cindy for discussing this and spreading the truth. We need as many folks with impact out there stating the facts behind this awful situation.
bethany truly dealt with too much caucasity. i hope she has the time and space to rest and also properly grieve over her family death since she was dealing with that too.
I am fuming that this whole thing has robbed Bethany of the time she needed to grieve a death of someone close to her and that she had to deal with people misrepresenting her character. I hope the book community lifts her and her work up and allows her the space to just breathe now.
I feel awful for Bethany. It is so frustrating. I am so tired of the antiblackness.
I’m also disabled, and definitely want to support Bethany
Bethany deserves worlds better. I'll definitely be checking out her work to support her.
If the fake convo with lily is anything to go by, she really was right to be worried about her fiction writing getting overshadowed by better works 💀
I fear you ate her up with this one💀
HELP 😭😭it was deadass giving those Tiktok acting skits i’m donnnee
FR like out of all the things to fall back on, she rlly invented an evil twin 😭
I’m saying! There’s no way that book was gonna be any good 😭😭😭
FRRR LMAO. It was the corniest thing I’ve ever read
She should've rewatched Mean Girls beforehand, Regina George knew to keep the nastiest most insulting entry for herself so she could look like a victim instead of the perpetrator
Also if you're gonna make fake message screenshots, why wouldn't you make another account and message back and forth so you don't end up with photoshop mistakes, time inconsistencies, etc?
@@EmissaryofWindCus she's stupid lmfao
@@EmissaryofWind - Seriously. Her Photoshop job was so incredibly bad that if I didn't know any better, I'd say she *wanted* to get caught.
@@EmissaryofWind even with editing, tell me how a teenage me could do a better job? 😭
The reylo that literally sifted through 1.8 mil tweets about reylo and the last jedi is both insane and also a real one lmao they literally said "you're not pinning this on MY fandom"
Also a Black woman being pinned with ableism in light of a white woman acting out is truly an Internet Moment of All Time.
I was so confused?? I feel like being offended by that is ridiculous.
@@Theestallionsimp- literally!! I was just like-?? That wasn’t even about you Meredith!!! 🙄😒
Meredith was the most annoying part of this saga. She’s obsessed with herself fr
I had to rewatch that part of the video to make sure that someone legitimately keeps an archive of EVERY tweet that mentions reylo like what???
Yeah, Meredith gave me a twisted feeling and a bad taste in my mouth. I’ll be avoiding her books in the bookstores.
You can’t just keep doubling down when you’re PROVEN WRONG. It’s bad character.
What’s even crazier is that Cait would’ve naturally gained popularity for her work. She self-sabotaged her own career all because of insecurity. Wow.
Seriously. Imagine being so self-centered -- so deluded into thinking that only you are allowed to succeed in your industry -- that you'll spend a significant amount of time and effort to actively try to ruin others.
@@opo3628 She got into the habit of writing her self insert fics that she behaved like a self insert character. Makes sense why she would treat her peers like that. She probably didn't see them as a fellow human being, but as some side supporting character in her story
@@puppiesgoesrawr ugh this is so true. People like this are so self-involved, I wonder how many IRL friends or life she even has/had. To be throwing herself into all of this online deceit and damage, it's just such chronically online behavior.
White insecurity is so scary
I mean I am also frickking insecure about my writing endeavours... but well I just barely started getting into original writing. So we will see... but I have a feeling I won't ever do this for money.
Plus: yes on the book community and their research. I am still grateful for the info that some idiot took my fanfics and uploaded them as books on amazon Kdp... without changing anything.
Literally all she had to do was sit quiet, hype her friends books up so they in turn hype hers up, and wait. Runaway success was guaranteed. She had the book deal of a lifetime.
I'm fucking *baffled*
I am fucking baffled too O_o?
It's such a bummer, I was really interested in the concept to her book too, right up my alley, and now it's fully torpedoed. Oh well, time to real a whole ton of other books that *aren't* written by absolute gooberberries. :D
@@Zaftiquengl given how terrible the dialogue in those fake screenshots are, it made me immediately question her writing ability. Read like a wattpad angst fic
I know - and as evidenced by her fake screenshots - I am so shocked she got a book deal. I could fake convos better than she could. written like fanfic I wrote back in 2003 on xanga ... im a fucking developer who likes math and doesn't WRITE for a living
I think that some people are just their own worst enemy. I don't know about you, but I've met people who just self-sabotage left and right. The only wild thing about this situation is honestly that it played out in public. But people pull shady shit like this all the time, and then have surprised Pikachu face when it blows up in their face.
I don't know how this popped into my feed of recs. But I had Cait accuse me of "stealing her idea" for a fic I had posted years before in the Reylo community. While I was small fish, I had friends who were much bigger fish, so it never went further, and I just let it go. But I can confirm and still have reciepts that shows that targeting "threats" to her works has been a tactic of hers for YEARS. I humbly thank you for giving me closure on an old would, and the knowledge that Karma came for her. Thank you!!!
jesus christ, im sorry this happened. Just goes to show she is still putting up a facade bc this was always her, not the drugs, addiction, or mental illness, she was always in control
Is it okay if I ask what your idea was? I used to follow Cait on Ao3 when she was writing Reylo fic
So it is really a case of a fanfic writer thinking they can pull the same shit in a real life business deal as in an online fanfic forum... that's a very convoluted sense of reality.
You literally disproved her entire mental illness and substance misuse defence.
Would be cool if you could send them to Xian or someone who also exposed this. Please
Not Corrain getting the "leave this poor baby alone! What more do you want from her? She said sorry! 🥺" treatment while a black woman is burned at the stake for venting her frustation about being targetted by THAT VERY PERSON!!
EXAAAAACTLYYYYYYYYYYYY
"You feel proud leading a harassment campaign against a lone author? 😠"
MY GIRL WAS LITERALLY A ONE-PERSON HARASSMENT CAMPAIGN. BE FORREAL
Literally this
Ugh this is daily for blk women
Sht is so trash dude
Apologists for bad behavior make my blood boil. They truly are the worst.
7 minutes in and I can already tell our villain is not Moriarty levels, but Scooby Doo levels.
I mean, Scooby-Doo villains were rich white people who wanted to keep their status, but they also did a lot of set up. This is more like lazy Msscribe.
lmao
😂😂
"And I would have gotten away with too, if it weren't for you meddling POCs!!! "
@@happilyeverafter7703and reylos
she should’ve done it burn book style and written “cait’s books are absolutely horrible” like did mean girls teach her nothing????
Like if she wanted to have her Regina moment, she shouldn’t have been acting like cady
@@Thepeanutcollector That's unfair to Cady. You mean Karen.
@@wendynerd1199 But that’s unfair to Karen. Perhaps Janis?
She's no Regina George, more of a Saturday morning villain
The conversation with her and Lilly has the same vibes as Smeagol arguing with Gollum 💀
LMAOOO youre so right😭😭
Lol now I'm picturing the conversation in Smeagol/Gollum's voice 😂
OH. MY. GOD. 😭😭
Oh my goddd 😭😭😭
Props to RF Kuang for predicting this insane behavior in Yellowface👏 The way Cait took the whole book to heart 💀
OMG 😂
This is insanely funny
i was literally thinking of yellowface through the whole video LMAO
Cait looking at the ending like, "Ooh, bestie! Redemption time✨"
😂 Spot on!
The funniest part is, after making all those goodreads accounts, Cait couldn't be bothered to make a second discord account as "Lilly" and fake messages that way
she was prob panicking
Seriously, it would have been so much faster and easier rather than painstakingly photoshopping
@@brkh96 i know righttttt
the entire time cindy was talking about how the padding was messed up i was like why in gods name would you photoshop texts???? like sis??? what???
The way she couldn't even think to "censor" the name to explain away more of the misalignment weirdness also gets to me. She could have literally just thrown a messy bar over it and it would be way harder to clock, but nah.
Did she learn nothing from Regina George and the Burn Book set up??? For shame.
At least Cait only got hit by a metaphorical bus 😅
Tbf if she had given herself 2 or 3 star reviews too no one would’ve known it was her
She learned that Regina George (I have no idea) has some name recognition and a story on the internet. Now y'all are helping her to get the same thing. Fame or infamy pays off eventually.
@@argusfleibeit1165It’s from a movie, Mean Girls.
@@kaskaskas At the very least she should've either not touched her own book or 5 starred it with DIFFERENT accounts!
I don’t mean to judge Cait’s nefarious, mustache twirling, racist plans, but making multiple accounts just to have all of them like each other’s comments and rate Cait’s book 5 stars is a mistake not even 9th graders stalking people on instagram tend to make
I was like. Girl, did you even use like a VPN. Did you think any of this through?!
@@anyblasphemousrumour she should’ve had 4 main accounts and about 50 bot accounts that had different purposes
The Reylo fan with "I have every tweet that's ever involved Reylo saved on my PC" is the wildest shit I've ever seen. Like... Holy shit, why?
That part made me laugh so fricken hard 😂
i'm /majorly/ into star wars but never interact with fellow fans and from what little i know of reylos they all seem pretty crazy and defensive. this drama tracks from what i know of them, rabid and poor writers.😭
I try not to think too hard about that because nothing I come up with really measures to reality lmao
Nearly 2 million of them! I can only aspire to have that level of obsession with anything
@socheeb lmao dude i am a reylo and i dont interact with them because of all this insanity
Thea Guanzon lives in the Philippines too so her getting published internationally is a BIG deal. In the height of her reylo fic days, so many people anticipate whenever she drops a chapter. And from time to time she shares snippets of her life to a majorly-western fandom.
I feel like Cait (even if she was friends with Thea) couldn’t accept that a non-native speaker can write better than her.
She was great
the more I learn about this whole thing the uglier it gets
Shit you're right
Isn't English one of the official languages in the Philippines?
@@lordarthur2165 yes but most filipinos won't learn it as their first language. its basically shit you learn in school, not a native language
In the convo with 'Lilly' she could've replied with "What?!?!?!" and faked a 15-20 minute long phone call. It would've seen more normal and she wouldn't have had to make up an unnatural sounding conversation in which she sounds like, uh. I don't even know
*other authors in this comment section taking notes in case they ever want to do this same thing but not get caught ✍️✍️✍️* lmao 💀
Poor planning on her part IMO. You have to create the fake accounts several months in advance, build them up so they look like regular accounts, post varying reviews, negative positive and mid, and act enthusiastic about other works maybe in other genres so they're not a threat to you, so THEN you can proceed with your downvoting campaign, and don't do it all at once, that's suspicious. If you're gonna be a villain do it RIGHT!
She should've created more accounts and not intersect all the accounts she had in one book, like all 8 accounts liking a one star review. Some accounts would review, but not like, some accounts would review and like, and some accounts would like but not review. Maybe 30+ or so accounts just to be safe. Also, as you said, she should've had some varying reviews and ratings on some other books that are 4-5 star, but I guess she couldn't do this since she's too self-absorbed. I personally think she did all of this without using her head and just thinking casually that it won't be dug too deep. If she's going to cause drama like she usually does, she should've truly planned better.
Some critics referred to Yellowface by R.F. Kuang as too “on-the-nose” and yet here we are 💀
truly the simpsons of the book community
@@courtnie1783 This comment is pure gold!
Regarding "believing authors can't truly be cancelled", Cait's biggest mistake was doing this stuff way BEFORE her book came out. Most authors that survive getting canceled have a readerbase/backlog to fall back on, but she's a debut trad author who burned all her bridges in the communities she was in; not just with other trad authors, but with her Reylo crew. She doesn't actually have the audience to keep her afloat or go back to after being cancelled. If she had waited until the Illumicrate book had come out before going mask off bitter bee, then surely she would have had a least a FEW dedicated readers who either don't know or don't care about twitter drama; it's also possible that the contracts would have been far enough along that her partners wouldn't have been able to cancel project(s) easily because they would have been too far along/too invested to take that loss, and would have instead helped her salvage as much of the situation as they could in order to remake the money spent on her before quietly not offering her anything else. But her need to be ahead of the other authors bit her hard. (Also, being able to lie at least halfway decently would have helped her get away with it.)
I will never understand people who target nonwhite authors this way. Like, it's SO much work, targeted effort, for... what??? Being ahead of them??? Like she already was, it seems, given that she had a massive contact with talk of movie rights as a debut author? I'm continuously fascinated by the way these wackos 'pick' their targets. I just can't comprehend spending this much time and effort to be an unpleasant wench toward complete and utter strangers. Even if they're your 'competition.'
This is 2010s tumblr using anon to send hateful messages and then one positive message as your actual account in order to make the other user like you level of plotting and execution. And she forgot to hit anon on one of the hate messages.
I feel sorry for everyone involved, but especially Bethany, who really didn't deserve to be the unfortunate centerpiece of this spiraling debacle. I hope all the affected authors go on to have long, successful careers, cuz Cait is never gonna get those opportunities again. Imagine throwing away a fast-track to your dream career to give out some 1 star reviews of books you never read.
But that's the point isn't it. She was afraid of how her book WOULD do. If she waited until her book had come out and received rave reviews (the plot sounded promising), she wouldn't have done shit like this at all (or at least, wouldn't need to)
I still think she might garner a memoir deal out of this in a few years.
@@maurinet2291 Nah, she isn't notable enough for a memoir about it. She might feature in someone else's book chronicling author career bombs, as a case study.
apparently she's a trust fund kid so that's another layer of privilege (i was scrolling through xiran's tweets and found a tweet mentioning it)
Unfortunately, a lot of privileged people, on being told they had a head start in the race, decide that it's therefore shameful not to stay ahead and finish ahead by an appropriate margin. They point to marginalised peeps who have achieved amazing things and go, "If you're celebrating them, you're basically saying *I suck* because I had all these "advantages" and they still overtook me!"
... because they're secretly afraid that they're not actually an exceptional, hardworking writer, but that actually literally any rando could achieve everything they have and more with the same access to great contacts, education, advice, and a financial safety net. It's why they'll try to cast doubt on the impact of inequality, or emphasise their own disadvantages like mental health etc. Basically it's all about protecting their self-image as a gifted, exceptional person who didn't squander their advantages, and they're so entitled, they don't care who gets hurt along the way.
As someone who has depression and anxiety, and has tried many medications I can assure you none of them made me racist. Her 'apology' post really just dug her grave even deeper.
I haven't watched the video yet so this statement gave me some whiplash
I did not know what I was in for. Did she seriously say her mental health problems made her racist 🤣🤣
@@AdorableFennec Her "mental breakdown" caused her to create a very elaborate plan to sabotage her competitors and then double down with another elaborate plan faking Discord conversation screenshots 💀 I'm no psychologist but I ain't never met a single person who would do all of that careful thinking while having a mental breakdown
One medication gave me anger issues. But I was angry at everyone - regardless of their skin. 😀
"Try Happysin! The newest depression drug on the market! Lift your spirits and get on with your day! *Warning: Side effects may include constipation, reading minds, becoming racist and suddenly hating dogs* "
Can I just credit YOU, Cindy, for the incredible research and presentation you have done here? You brilliantly linked this situation to the broader context of systemic racism in larger society. Well DONE. I'm glad my friend recommended your channel.
Thank u!!
Awesome work - As a professional researcher I can say "hat's off!' on this excellent and important piece. Looking forward to your posts in 2024.
I have no idea who this is, but I’m a simple girl. I see Cindy, I click
get ready for a ride
Yesssss!!!! Anytime I get an alert for a Cindy video, I immediately click!😂
Same Cindy can talk about anything and im ready for the tea😭 always interesting even if i dont know wtf is going on
@@withcindy and a ride it was
Same 😂
Mental illness and substances don’t make people racist or want to sabotage innocent people.
Cait thought she could get away with this when she’s not as smart and strategic as she thinks. In reality, she doesn’t think. It’s why her scheme looks very much like a bumbling villain sidekick and why she got caught so easily.
THANK you! I keep saying this! If it's not in you already, substances and/or your mental illness can't bring it out! It has to be in there for it to come to the forefront!
THIS!
Fr. I'm hella mentally ill but it doesn't make me pull shit like this. Mentally ill people are perfectly capable of being held accountable for our actions. Being symptomatic sucks and can hurt us and other people sometimes. We can apologize, make amends, and move on.
But this? It's premeditated. Don't put this evil on mental illness, please
Mental illness doesn't make you an asshole. I've got my fair share of disorders that are pretty well managed at this point. I've also got a *lot* of both personal and professional experience with people who have all kinds of mental illnesses, in all kinds of levels of care. Even amongst those withe the "most severe" conditions were some of the kindest and most empathetic people I've ever met, and most just want to be able to live as "normal" a life that they can. Yes, some people with mental illness can be abusive or violent, but not at rates much different from the general population, and they are *much* more likely to be the victims of abuse and violence than the general population. 10 times more likely acording to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA)
It really bothere me to hear "mentally ill" being used in place of "bad," especially from someone who is standing up for other marginalized groups. I hope they're just under informed, which I would understand, as it is an annoyingly common misconception. Otherwise idk how else to take it than "they're bad because they're different" which is just a different kind of prejudice, and one that people struggling with mental health issues do not need more help internalizing.
Yep , she doesnt need to have mental health problems to be unhinged, but even like with kanye, he was an antisemite , he just became more unfiltered.
Mentally ill white author here who has been battling depression and anxiety since my childhood years, and most recently diagnosed with ADHD. I've been on several medications while trying to lock down my "med combo". I would never even think of doing something like this to fellow authors. Also, it makes me angry (and disappointed) to see that only when backed into a corner did she apologize, then blamed it all on mental illness and alcoholism (which I've seen extensively, firsthand, in my family). Never has this made me or them racist. Like...wtf?!
Yuuuuuup. PTSD, ADHD, depression, anxiety. I feel you. It's been difficult to write much of the time, but the thing to remember is: progress, not perfection.
It's that classic celebrity get out of jail free rehab play
I believe her mental health and addiction struggles are valid, but her whole statement felt manipulative. We know she’s already great at being performative and the apology reeked of the same behavior she exhibited in her convo with the artist of color and her fake screenshots.
two things can be true at once!
I actually don't know why we are expected to believe the mental illness/addiction thing. This woman is a KNOWN liar. Why would we believe this story? Nahhh. Whatever!
Because most people who suffer from mental illness and addiction don't do what she did. This was meticulous, calculated and required a TON of effort on her part to see this through.
From what I know of recovered addicts, addiction can cause them to do bad things, *but* you’re still very much accountable for your bad behavior. It’s a shame she had so many opportunities to make amends. None of the authors wanted her to lose her career, they just wanted her to fix things. Maybe this’ll be her wake up call, though probably not. I’m definitely going to check out the authors who were review bombed when they debut. I hope they all get the success they deserve.
@@monarch3495 She's not an addict. She's just an asshole.
Seriously, how do you fumble a bag SO HARD so close to the finish line?! Like, this is how you choose to end the year?! Somebody take notes please because this is special.
the holidays are gonna be very lonely for her
@@withcindy honestly I think few people are as capable of self-sabotage like the self-entitled white woman.
The "I trusted you!!!" In the fake convo... yeah I dont think we're missing out on the next biggest author of the century
I TRUSTED YOU!!!!!!!!
The “no more Mr nice guy” plot twist just put the icing on this horribly created cake 💀💀💀
I literally wrote og stories with similar dialogue when I was 10... 10
idk ... something about her apology is low-key inspiring.
If she can start several sock puppets on GoodReads to reviewbomb her "competition" and prop her up and THEN try to (poorly) cover up her tracks with shittily doctored discord screencaps - all the while (allegedly) in the midst of a mental breakdown... well dang - my ADHD ass can clean my room. (/s)
💀
Mood, though
“Meanwhile, women of color are demonized for being slightly off-putting or annoying.”
😭 This hits way too close to home and I’ve been bearing the brunt of it since childhood and still do to this day.
To be fair, women across the board in general get told this regardless of color. Not all, but a lot of men don't like strong vocal women so we get told this.
@@sweetoleander9048I’m sorry but your comment is insensitive and untrue. Women of color are unfairly put to standards of behavior that white women are not, you just do not know the difference because you will never be a person of color. white women of course face misogyny, but women of color face misogyny, racism, and importantly, the integration of both those things. As cindy said, this woman made a mistake and had multiple opportunities to come clean and apologize and did not; have you ever even heard of a woman of color doing something like this? I mean this very gently and kindly, but I would implore you to reflect and try to become self aware of how whiteness benefits white women.
But...are you? Genuinely curious because I suffer from that too and always check if it's me or someone's bias.🤔
@@sweetoleander9048was the commenter talking about all women? no, they were talking abt women of color. not everything has to involve you
@@sweetoleander9048😐👎🏾
one of the more disgusting if not the most disgusting part of this is that Bethany had to defend themself against claims of ableism while cait was allowed to hide and then throw their substance addiction at the issue as if any of the prescribed meds have racism as a side effect listed on them. overall terrible behavior and i really hope cait never tries to come back under a different pen name!
classic deflection. it's always easier to demonize black ppl and POC rather than hold white ppl accountable
@@Remi226-f5e I suppose I may have worded my original comment poorly but I don't think it really felt like a choice to Bethany who was being subbed by other authors about her comment being perceived as ableist as well as her tweet and Meredith's involvement gaining more attention than the issue at hand which was Cait's poor decision making. When I said Cait was allowed to hide behind her substance abuse I meant she was able to sit back, lock her social media down and come up with another excuse (because that is what it feels like- no medicine or alcohol makes you racist. You just are.) and leave Bethany to the wolves while Bethany was already in a distressed state as she was mourning a loss of a close family member. Cait got to run off and hide while Bethany had to defend herself, and then in her "apology" she barely even addressed it.
@@Remi226-f5eis it a choice if you have nothing to hide behind and dont want your work effected by peoples stupidity and inability to do research and just pounce on her
@@AprilSayI personally think the albino snake backlash was manufactured to try and delegitimize Bethany's points. Like an albino snake is an actual animal, and trying to frame it as a disabled woman making a dig at albinism is just crass.
@@tarotsushima3332After searching around a bit, I can't seem to find the albino snake species she was referring to. From the looks of it, albino snakes does tend to be the term used to describe any snake with the albinism mutation. I know Bethany would never target or speak poorly of people with albinism, but I can see how some people might end up misinterpreting her words. Still, the backlash she got was unwarranted and excessive, she didn't deserve any of that.
Man, that conversation between Lilly and Cait sure was attempting to channel the energy of the Jekyll and Hyde confrontation song
AND I'LL LIVE INSIDE YOU FOREVER, WITH GOODREADS ITSELF BY MY SIDE!
WAIT NO BECAUSE THIS ENTIRE SCENARIO LITERALLY READS LIKE JEKYLL AND HYDE
I will never understand the insecurity and envy of these 'they took our jobs' racists.
Yeah I don’t get it either
Maybe they’re doing a way better job than you? Or maybe they have the qualifications?
This whole thing just reeks of insecurity and I think thats the worst part of it. (Besides the blatant racism of course) She literally had everything they could've ever wanted and they threw it all away...
she was her own downfall
The self sabotage is real
Definition of being the architect of her own destruction
One of the best parts of this is that she calls what SHE did psychopath behavior. Iconic.
Self awareness almost realized
So close yet so far
It's interesting. There does seem to be a part of humans that is fully aware of our own actions like this, but other aspects of the mind cover this up to protect the self-image, or something. I'm thinking about when bullies accuse other people of bullying them, all that projecting behavior that they assume other people are acting as conniving as they are.
Not to downplay Cait's personal problems, but starting an apology with "oh I'm struggling with this and this and this" will always come across as sympathy fishing. It would be so much better if she would have just opened with, yes I did that, I'm sorry, and here's my explanation: I have this and this and this, which pushed me to these actions without thinking it through if it was a good idea or not. Leading with their your own struggles makes it seem like they don't actually care how other people struggled because of them
Rly good point
Agree on leading with struggles. A counterpoint to the "here's my explanation"--that comes across as "can you give me a little bit of a pass pwease? uwu you can see how hard it was for me to be good." The only time IMO it would be relevant to bring one's struggles up at all is in explaining to someone you personally have a relationship with that "I understand some of the factors that contributed to me engaging in this bad behavior, so I have some ideas of first steps I can take to start to reshape what I'm working with in my psyche and my life so that I'm better equipped to do better. I'm going to start with what seems to be a relevant direction of treatment, and not give up if that isn't exactly what I need, but continue pressing ahead to further and further hone in one finding what I need to equip myself to be the best version of myself." The goal with the latter is to help the people in your life manage their expectations of you, to let them know that YOU know some of the causes of this behavior coming out, let them know that you're invested in changing that behavior, and that you're approaching it in a realistic way. "The way for me to not do this as a pattern is not by simply knowing ''It's bad don't do it,' it's a process of behavioral change. It will take time. BUT, I'm starting, and building a real foundation will be actually reliable in the long term."
I'm not actually sure if it's genuinely productive to relate a message like the latter to the public at large? If sincerely meant, in the end you'll go through with the therapy anyway and continually persist in helping yourself be better equipped to do better, your actions will speak louder in the long run. The prerequisite question is, what's my goal with writing this letter to the public? To take some of the heat off myself? Because the sympathy and "leave britney alone" comments that Cindy showed seemed to accomplish that. Is the goal to undo some of the harm? Then it would have been much more productive to say like "I did it, it was NOT okay. To try to undo some of the damage I did with the review-bombing, I would like to recommend everyone check out X, and Y, and Z, and Q, and R, and S, and L authors. I apologize publicly to those I dragged through the mud publicly, like [whatshername] who I accused of being ableist. That was a manipulative deflection and it wasn't okay. She's not ableist." and importantly, to have already done the personal, private apologies FIRST, so that the ones directly impacted know that she prioritized sincerity over what would otherwise be a PR move.
Thank you for articulating this! Addiction and mental illness (as Cait claimed) can lead to bad actions and behavior. But you’re still accountable. I feel like so many apologies phrase it as a way to have some absolution instead of “I have X which lead to me doing Y and that’s not okay and I’m going to now work on improving it etc etc.”
I appreciate the candidness that comes with telling your past haters where to block you. In an era where the block button and black lists are within a single button’s reach at any time, it’s almost refreshing to see someone point at it and say ‘ this one. This is the one to push if you don’t like me. Just do it. Save us both the stupidity. ‘
The block button is a wonderful invention, and I wish more people knew how to use it.
Regina George was smarter than this author 😭😭
Regina George would never have been caught in the act😬
Regina George would've prepared someone to take the blame for her right before the start of the plan just in case.
@RodrickMarsMoon Regina George would've made sure the reviews were at different times and wouldn't like the other reviews and would've reviewed EVERYONE not mostly POC and wouldn't have reviewed her own book and if one person started being suspicious of her she would've started negatively reviewing her book and positively reviewing the author she wanted to take the falls book
@@auggiemain Wow, that's very accurately for Regina George to do; I don't even know what to add to it 😵😄.
Seeing the reylos come out of the woodworks with receipts (considering the deep history of many reylos and racism) is making me feel like that scene with Legolas and Gimli. “Never thought I’d die fighting side by side with an reylo.” “What about side by side with a friend?” “Aye, I could do that”
LMAOOOO it's always a common enemy that unites people
Give them time they'll find some way to make this a setup for a later betrayal
@@zakai-kaz
I mean they were friends with Cait who apparently had a lot of racist tropes and takes in her stories so-
Omg I commented something similar before I saw this. High five ❤
@a@@zakai-kaz
The fake conversation she had with herself, scolding herself for the fake reviews has been making me laugh for days now.
"I take full responsibility" pairs really well with "It wasn’t me, my drug-induced mental breakdown is the reacist!"
Xiran Jay Zhao is such a great person/author to come foward with all this receipts and put a light on this matter.
They're the MVP
For real, it was a brave move! They could have kept quiet in fear of backlash but they didn't
Massive respect. According to their TikTok, they said that they were only quiet before because the other authors asked them to try and let themselves solve it privately first
Yes, love them and I knew Cindy would cover it too
kinda off topic here but I love their youtube videos too they're really entertaining
It's sad to see other writers tear each other down, as a writer, it's dissapointing to see. Authors work hard, especially authors of color struggle to make it in the industry, so to just take away their opportunities away from them is beyond disgusting. It's almost 2024, people should grow up
writing is already such a solitary activity. why isolate urself even further this way with pettiness
@@withcindy
Exactly. Like why would she undermine other writers trying to do what she was doing herself? Did she really think that she was the only person doing a sci-fi retelling of greek myths? I'm sure there's at least 10 books with a similar idea to hers lol.
Take it away and also squander it!
This story really has it all: betrayal, lying, alt accounts, mental illness, racism, jealousy, harassment, and the Reylo fandom. If this were a fictional story, the main criticism would be how sloppy and melodramatic it is, not including the Reylo shippers.
as someone with bipolar disorder, having manic episodes that can result in intense review-bombing of other creators seems totally within the realms of possibility. the racism though?????? yeah no
This drama was so wild I half expected it to be a marketing campaign for an A24 movie adaptation of Yellowface
You know…
…you’d probably really enjoy the movie “Zola” if you’ve not seen/heard of it yet. Literally a movie based from a WILD Twitter thread. Great film.
@@rsmith4407thanks for the recommendations!
Funny how even in the fake exchange with the invented person, a lot of the descriptions of the damage are still softened ("damage you could have done") and centered on herself and her name rather than the people targeted supposedly on her behalf. Like she couldn't even manufacture the rage coming from the right places, if she were actually in the situation she invented
very good point!!
right! how this could have affected MEEE, how MYYY reputation could be ruined, me me me
To be fair, even a good person in real situation like this would likely center themselves in a private conversation with the wrongdoer, especially with a supposed friend. The fact that she didn't try to paint herself in as positive light as possible in those fake DMs is probably the most well thought out aspect of her deception attempt
Tbf this did look bad on Cait if this really wasn't her fault so I'd get the fear but goddamn?? At least pretend to care about the other people you hurt???
@@dopaminedrought395 It's interesting how bigoted attitudes really echo narcissism. It's not _just_ narcissists who are bigots, either, because people who in most situations (where they aren't exposed to the objects of their bigotry) are decently well-adjusted and courteous can also pop out of left field with that BS
Girl might pull a Matt Rife run to the right wing to say “I tried to pander to these leftists and they turned on me”
I'm actually half-expecting that to happen.
Matt Rife was always planning to go to the right, though. The signs were there before his special
Matt Rife was always planning to go to the right, though. The signs were there before his special
Idk how "left" you can even be when you actively tear down people of color by threatening their livelihood like this. This is straight right wing behavior.
As a writer and an author, I always tell other writers that we are not in competition. What reader has a single book in their library? None. Not only that, readers read faster than the fastest author can write so they're are always looking hungrily for their next meal. The supply is slow the demand is high and that voracious reading monster wants more books. I know this because I'm also part of that voracious monster. I have a huge TBR pile because I hate the feeling of not having my next read lined up. So Cait Corrain ruined a promising career for nothing with some weird idea that similar books would would somehow cancel hers. Huh? No, that's not how it works. Similar books enhance one another. So while I'm at this, I would love to find another book like The Will of Many (already read Red Rising).
I need to read this today. Thank you. ❤
I saw all this unfold starting with Xiran's tweets and every time I thought it couldn't get worse, every update proved me wrong. It's so crazy how someone can just throw away their entire career that way. Ironically, this gave more spotlight to all the victims and I'm so happy to see their books promoted.
xiran's recent tweet about cait pretending to be lilly and saying she reviewed mostly POC authors and would be deemed racist... that level of consciousness gagged me
@@withcindy Right??? I read that and cringed so hard. Self reporting at its finest.
I cannot believe she threw EVERYTHING away like this. She had so much that everyone else dreams of and works so hard for. I do believe she has mental illness because otherwise it makes nooooo sense to act that way and throw their whole career away like this, but obviously mental illness does not make you racist lmao
she 100000% is mentally unwell but girl thats why u gotta unpack that and work on urself instead of making it everybody else's problem
I wouldn't pass off this conduct to mental illness. She was greedy, selfish and just jealous of others.
I wouldn't think of this as a symptom of mental illness but just jealousy and insecurity.
@@thegazetteyt no absolutely. I think she wanted to do these things and did them, but I do think some degree of mental illness is involved for her to follow through with such an idiotic idea. It’s not normal to have so much going for you and sabotage yourself this way. It spanned months though iirc so this clearly isn’t a single manic episode like she’s trying to frame it as.
She comes off as mentally ill AND racist /a bad person, to me. I’m glad she got her comeuppance 👍🏽
Right like she shouldve focused on her own books rather than tear down others because she just wasted a dream come true
I so love how Cindy naturally speaks at 1.25x speed or faster, makes my ADHD happy
i love that too! especially loved how fastly she read the screenshots, it's like when you recap drama to a friend fast enough to not lose their attention and get to the even juicier parts 😂
You can’t live in NYC unless that’s your slow speed.
Cindy’s ability to speak is SO underrated. No verbal stalls or interruptions, probably no script, just 30+ minutes making every word count. It’s lovely
@@katrinab8805theres a bunch of jumpcuts lol
@@jessy7093 editing well doesn’t diminish or negate anything I said
I heard the “i want to boost other marginalized creators whenever possible” paused the video and stared dumbstruck across my room for a solid ten seconds
I just kept imagining her in a different colored wig as you were reading her doctored messages. The level of delusion and confident to think she would get away with it.
truly an inner battle with herself
I was imagine someone switching frantaticly from one mobile to other typing responses.
I actually don't hate that the publishing industry is white. It's their culture. Chinese publishing would be majority Chinese, right? Japanese publishers and anime producers, writers and directors as well as distributers would be majority Japanese.
@@suezcontours6653america is more racially diverse than china tho, that's no excuse
@@lilysiandaza4296 I am saying that Africa is also running a Decolonization Movement. They're questioning if it's right to adapt to Colonial systems - including British reading and writing systems. Africans did have a written language, they just forgot and the scholars are working to bring it back. If this is successful then black Americans could adopt that instead of trying to infiltrate systems that DO NOT want them there.
Imagining her feeling guilty at rating down her friend and convincing herself it's ok because she rated it 2 stars instead of 1 star...
That was my first thought, “well I gave you TWICE as many stars as the others 😚😚”
Oooooof
I had a serious mental breakdown earlier this year and during it, I got so paranoid that I was convinced that one of my friends was in an abusive relationship (she’s fine, the other person was just kind of shitty but not dangerous at all). In that time, I did some pretty serious things, including calling a bunch of people and telling them my theory, which caused a lot of stress and confusion. I can see how someone could do something like this under the effects of alcoholism or mental breakdown. That being said, while her actions were likely influenced by breakdown, the insecurity and the RACISM had to have existed before. Perhaps she did things that were more extreme or unconscionable due to mental illness but they could only have exaggerated a feeling that was already there. Alcoholism or medications don’t make you racist girl, you were already racist before.
yeah i agree, someone else also made the point that if those reviews were actually a mistake she would’ve deleted them! she was clearly aware of them and chose to keep them up
Yeah usually it's underlying shit that comes up in my experience too. My greatest fears are dying too young and losing the people I love most too soon. When I recently went through a minor med change for anxiety, these fears became all-consuming. To the point where if I didn't hear back from my girlfriend or my mom for an hour or so I'd fear they were in danger, and at another point I also had convinced myself I probably had cancer (thank god I'm in Canada with a good family doctor who was able to put that fear to bed for me quickly).
And we're all born into a racist society, and we've all done racist things before. Most of us (hopefully) learn from our mistakes, apologize, and take steps to repair the situation. The difference here, is her purposefully harmful actions, and complete doubling down. Just an absolute refusal to learn or do better.
@@celisewillis idk abt “we all”, a lot of us are poc and were raised to be aware of racism from the getgo out of necessity
Yeah, honestly while I get the point about Cait being able to step out of the public eye being a privilege denied to POC, I think the best thing for absolutely everyone is for her to stay out of the public eye now. Maybe for ever.
I have a strong suspicion she's going to come back with a memoir in a couple years 😭
Oh. Oh no. Oh GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD.
Cait’s conversation with “Lilly” is like Gollum vs. Sméagol.
Yes I was thinking that too!!
Lmao!!! Totally!
"We wants to reviewbomb other authors"
HELP
my gods yes
The IMDb-ification of book reviews are the bane of our civilisation.
Oh is THAT the bane of our civilization? I could think of a few other things
@@maddieb.4282Theres this thing called hyperbole.
@@maddieb.4282 Lol so could I but I wanted to be dramatic about this topic in this context.
@@maddieb.4282 hyperbole is a term for a reason, just relax.
as soon as i heard about the news i knew somehow cindy would find a way to masterfully punt the rest of this lady's career further down into hell
Haha samee, I knew Cindy was gonna cover this and was looking forward to this video🔥💫
Thank you so much for calling out that one other author in the middle of this, when I first heard that I wanted to roll my eyes so quickly, there’s nothing that bugs me more than a person getting half the facts and then being petty and stubborn and acting like they had done their research when really they've jumped to conclusions and wanted to be the main character of the drama.
Those folks have more patience than me, I would have whipped out the "??? Yo, this ain't about you" and shut that down so fast. You don't even need to name drop them to say clearly and explain that they don't know what's the actual drama going on...
#justiceforLilly she was a true icon
Lilly kinda ate
gaslight gatekeep girlboss baby
Lmaooo
During the reading of the "Lily" convo, I was just picturing Cait sitting there on her little couch, aggressively yelling at a sock puppet she's holding. Highly reccomend that visual.
I pictured it a la Lord of the Rings, that convo Gollum has with themselves and proceeds to tell himself that no one likes him. Tho I'd say Tolkien was the better writer here
Nooooo
the fake conversation with "Lily" cracks me up sooo bad its like an Ace Attorney culprit breakdown
the fact that she rated every book of hers five stars on her other goodreads accounts is just- like if you’re gonna do this at least rate a FEW books of yours low so nobody would suspect you. idk if she thought it would hurt her fragile ego, but if you’re gonna do this, at least do it right.
I can't believe the book community has their very own version of creepshowart
I was just thinking that too! Amy and Lily should be besties. 💀
@@IvyDarkRose“Of course Amy isn’t her real name!“
*uses the name Amy in the fake mails between them
Don't remind me 😭😭😭😭💀💀💀
Creepshowart was much, much worse than Cait. To give Cait some credit, she didn't marry a grapist and proceed to stalk and harass her victim over multiple years along with her horrible husband. But I get what you mean
watching this actively play out on twitter through the week was WILD. this type of thing happens a lot on small scale in fandom spaces, and i think that was cait's biggest mistake: they treated a traditional publishing career like it was fandom, where you can be petty and instigate drama, lie, and get away with nonsense. but you can't do that, not in the traditional publishing world. if i had to guess, the reason she finally confessed was because her publisher surely got involved, and she was forced to either lie to her *publisher* and get in deeper trouble (as surely there would be a further investigation into who was responsible for slandering their debut author), or just tell the truth and lose everything. like xiran and bethany said, this could've been handled privately. if cait had owned up to it, deleted their bad reviews and sock puppet accounts, and apologized properly, she probably wouldn't have lost her book deal. publishers RARELY pull books less than 6 months from release. this was such a huge deal with massive fallout. cait had the golden ticket of publishing (a good book deal, supportive marketing, a seemingly going-to-be-big debut) and threw it all away.
that's a really good point about treating her professional career as if it were fandom! and yes, her apology at the very end is hard to accept bc she had already been given so many chances to come clean or come to her senses. but this had been premeditated and she refused at every chance to stop or make amends until she had no other choice.
The way you connected her actions to fandom behaviour makes so much sense 🙌
Like I was sitting here listening to this whole mess of events thinking “Who would ever do this? This is so unprofessional!”. But then you said she was acting like she was in a fandom and it all clicked 😮. B/c I have def seen this type of messiness in relation to fan works, but never thought anyone in their right mind would bring it into the real world 😅. But I guess that was my own naivety.
Oh my goodness. I don't even go here -- I'm not into Star Wars at all and the last book I read was on a 19th century shipwreck -- but when i read that one line about how she was the lightning rod for Reylo drama all I could think was that's because she started it all, didn't she? Maybe even with sockpuppets.
Might have run across a few of those back in my bad old fandom days. Maybe.
@@withLoveJoyKing yeah see i was literally sitting watching this all play out over twitter wondering the same as everyone, "how could someone possibly do this?", when it dawned on me that it was just straight up fandom style behavior. absolutely mind boggling!
Cindy looks like she came straight outta hibernation to deal with this shit.
i really did
@@withcindy I hope that now that this video is out, you can crawl back under your blankets & continue to watch your phone in peace.
It's interesting that in her conversation with "Lily" Cait attacks "Lily" and rips her for risking Cait's career and the impact it has on Cait, even when she's trying to cover for herself she only sees herself.
That “conversation” with Lilly is singlehandedly the most batshit thing I’ve read lmao. And I read all three fifty shades books.
This is the most delectably insane story. It really kicks up a notch with the fake conversation that she wrote. RF Kuang is probably kicking herself that she didn't have a subplot in Yellowface with this exact scandal.
"You should've rated the author you hate the most 5 stars to frame them".
Fuuhhck. Cindy is like a criminal mastermind or something.
Following this bookdrama I finally understand how people are into true crime like I would listen to this as a podcast religiously 💀✨
"How patronising that is? How humiliating? The damage you couldve done?" she thought she ate 😭 the screenshots read like a confrontation scene in a bad fanfic, idk how she thought anyone would think those real
yeah that's probably what happens when you only have fanfiction monologue in your head at all times and not talking to any real people
@@j.yang7as a fanfic author who deals with my own clunky dialogue all the time (including monologues and weird exposition dialogue). This is definitely true 😅
@@sapphireshineauthor I'm also like that when I make up random situations and arguments in my head lol
I was locked in to that fake discord convo while doing the dishes listening like it was an audio only telenovela😂😂😭
LOL I'm glad you enjoyed my riveting performance
Really well read by Cindy 😂
The Reylo fandom emerging from the void with RECEIPTS. I am living for it. Iconic behaviour.
this gave me flashbacks to jk rowlings recent book which rants for 900 million pages about cyber bullying and how negative it is, like the desperate pettiness and effort put into positioning yourself as the victim will never compare to how much idgf
I have a friend who was briefly roommates with Cait and could not stand living with them and moved out after like a month. So I think Cait is just bad vibes all around. Also, this friend is a classics Ph.D student who studies Dionysius and Cait didn’t want their research help…
Omg
I love it when more tea gets spilled in the comments
Pfft ahahaha! That's so telling isn't it? I bet Cait was all so proud of her Greek mythology inspired novel until the roommate brought up her Ph.D
Woahhhh
I was friends with her for like a month and had to end the relationship when she started trying to tell me how i had to conduct my life so it could revolve around her and she equated me laying boundaries to me being "damaged and taking it out on her." shes a thoroughly controlling narcissist