The Poor Man's Panzer | 40M Turán I
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มี.ค. 2021
- In the later part of the interwar period, the Kingdom of Hungary was seeking to improve its lightly armored motorized units. Domestically, Hungary did not have any tank designs available, outside of the lightly armored amphibious V-4 design. This lack of heavier domestic designs led the Hungarian leaders to search for vehicles to import or produce under license from other countries. This search would find its end in Czechoslovakia and lead the Hungarians to the production of the 40M Turán I and its later derivatives. While the design of this tank proved to be lacking in many regards, its production was a real testament to the power of the weakened Hungarian heavy industry.
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Article: tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/hu...
Sources:
Magyar Steel by Csaba Becze
Hungarian armour during World War 2: The Turán tank and its derivatives described by J. C. M. Probst by J. C. M. Probst from Airfix Magazine issue 9, 1976
The Royal Hungarian Army, 1920- 1945 by Leo W.G. Niehorster
Tanks of Hitler’s Easter Allies 1941-45 by Steven J. Zaloga, illustrated by Henry Morshead
The Hungarians on the Eastern Front from TAC News
vesszentrianon.n1.hu/keret.cgi...
Straussler Miklós Tankjai by Németh Károly
Československa Obrnena Vozidla 1918-48 by Vladimír Francev & Charles K. Kliment
Armor in Pancerne Profile 1 by Janusz Magnuski
Harckocsik 1916-tól napjainkig by Bombay, Gyarmati & Turcsányi
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An article by Brian Gaydos
Narrated by Stan Lucian
Sound edited by Big Turn
Edited by ya boy Jim Zawacki
![Hungarian Tanks in WWII - The Toldi, Turán and Zrínyi [WWII DOCUMENTARY]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q8FqkmtKCWM/mqdefault.jpg)
Not a bad tank but that complex suspension was hard to produce, but all tanks can't be as successful as the Bob semple in the intro
Its weird since Škoda already had plans for T-15, simplified version of Pz.35(t) with suspension similar to one of Pz.38(t) yet ČKD the producer of Pz.38 made their competing design V-8-H with same complicated suspension as Škoda...
As I understand it re the 40mm gun, They were producing the Bofors AA gun and had got a license for the PaK 36, and decided to mate the two to only have one barrel to worry about making. Quite a punch in its day, but quickly left behind.
The original czech 47mm Škoda A9 (basically tank version of KPÚV vz.36/PaK 36(t)) was much better gun, close to german 50mm PaK 38 in performace.
@@jirja3192 incorrect. It was a short barrel low velocity gun. The 4cm was an L60 barrel straight off of a bofors AA gun with 820m/s muzzle velocity, and up to 75mm of penetration at 100m.
It was undoubtedly insufficient later in the war, but was not completely incapable of damaging the soviet frontline tanks that were its primary opponent.
Yeah, during WW2, Polish 20mm tankettes damaged Panzer 1 and Panzer 2 divisions, could even fight with Panzer 3 from the flank if they managed an ambush
40mm AA gun would be "perfect" for their time
The opening foto of two soldiers shaking hands at the beginning of the video is from a pretty specific time. From March 1939 to September 1939. The border marker is actually Czechoslovak one and Hungary gained a border with Poland when it annexed Carpatho-Ukraine and lost it with Soviet occupation of Poland. And i kinda doubt that they would leave the border markers of Czechoslovakia in there for long, so it's likely from the beginning of that period.
@Ruffus Vampir What the heck are you even reacting to? I'm just putting a date on the picture and not commenting on the current relations. Also I was not talking about current Ukraine, but about Carpatho-Ukraine, which is a region that has often changed hands and was not part of the today's Ukraine till Soviet annexation. Before the first world war it was a part of the Hungarian part of the Austro-Hungarian empire and greater Hungary before that as Carpathian Ruthenia. And I was talking about it only because it's the only place where Hungary and Poland had a common border on which a Czechoslovak border marker could stand.
@Ruffus Vampir I suppose we found the nazi. Or a stalinist I guess. Or just a racist.
@@EneTheGene I Suppose you have no idea what are you talking about. Historic datation of a picture doesn't have anything to do with any idology whatsoever.
@@vojtechpribyl7386 Well, you just try to correct some information under the WW2 video. Doesnt matter that the sign has Czech Lion and we can clearly see: --KOSLOVENKA REPUBLIKA, so it proves your point. Buuuuut, here it comes. You just been called Nazi, Stalinist and Racist by some stupid humanoid. It happens all the time, waste of time dealing with them.
@@davidflorek2165 Yeah, It's not my first day on the internet, but that doesn't mean I won't call them out.
As a Hungarian, I am proud to have made a video about Turán, no matter how bad the situation in Hungary was, but we were not poor.
haha u lost are ur land after ww1
@@jimmilton6644 First, this is WW2 tank (we were at the losing side, too), and yeah, we lost 2/3 of our land because of a shooting of an Austrian archduke and a German leader who had an ego bigger then the planet. And why is this funny? I think after everything we went through, like the Treaty of Trianon, where they smashed our economy, 1929, where our economy got an ever bigger hit, then here we are, the Hungarians were the only minor axis nation who had a real tank industry. Look at Romania. They got a shit ton of land after WW1, and what do they had for tank production? A prototype that looks like a tank from WW1!
Haha you don't know how to speak english@@jimmilton6644
@@jimmilton6644 You know, grammerly is free...
By "honvéd" you mean Honvédség. First one is the word for one soldier, the latter is the army itself. Anyway, nice video.
The French: _Hon! Hon! Honvédség_
I'd rather thy just called it national guard. Thats the english equivalent.
Respect to the crews that had to go up against soviet heavy tanks using this.
Imagine those poor Italian souls done that in a M 13/40.
@@steffenrosmus9177the M13/40 were never sent in the eastern front, only ab41 L6/40, cv33 and semovente l40 da 47/32 were available
Thank you for making a video on this beast. Also thank you for even attempting to pronounce Hungarian names, you gained a sub. Djosz Gyor got me wondering tho. :D
I think it's a miracle Hungary even managed to get some of it's own vehicles out the door considering what a rough shape it was left in after WW1. Even if the poor Turán was obsolete by the time it got to the front lines.
Any chance of a video on the 39M Csaba? Edit: I didn't know you already had one, you stellar people.
Now playing this in War Thunder. Pretty good, and loving the super fast reverse gears.
I need more about hungarian tanks please 😔🙏
For example, the 44M TAS 👀👌
M44 Tas was just a prototype. The only specimen on the production line was destroyed in a bombing. It could have been a good tank. Similar to the Panther. 38 tons, strong front armor and good cannon.
@@gyorgy58 it's a beautiful tank, in the pictures 😔👌
@@ivangomez8288 Refined proportional form. I like it too. They wanted to incorporate the Turan III’s 75mm long-barreled cannon into the first test piece. The series would have included either the German Panther or the Hungarian 80 mm anti-aircraft gun. As no suitable engine was available, two Turan engines were built into it (2x265 horsepower) that could operate separately. He was able to run a single motorway on the country. That way he could save fuel. Like some of today’s cars that turn off a handful of cylinders when they aren’t needed. If one engine injured during a fight, the other was able to move off-road at reduced speed.
@@gyorgy58 thanks for the information bro, the 44M TAS is my favorite tank of the second world war although it has only remained in prototype. As a fan of armored vehicles, I would have liked to see him in combat. Greetings from Chile
@@ivangomez8288 there is some infos for you about the 44M Tas:
Frontal armor: 120 mm
Gun: PaK 40 or 75 mm 43M, but the turret designed to house a PaK 42 (the Panther's gun)
Mass: 38 tons
Suspension: Porsche-type torsion bar suspension
Engine: double 260 HP Turán engine
Built: no, the half-finished prototype bombed down with the factory by the americans.
As the next step after the THNP the T21 was a good effort. The period when medium tanks were designed with small caliber cannon was fast passing. It made sense. After all, who would've suspected that the 3.7cm armed PzKw III would be pushed to the margins, while its erstwhile support vehicle, the 7.5cm armed PzKw IV, would end up the main tool of the Panzerwaffe? Not Guderian, apparently.
0:06 The best tank ever built. Go Bob Semple!
It's my favorite Brought to us from the country of madmax.if it wasn't for world of tanks that little beast would be almost unknown.
@@ronaldharris6569 I learned about it from YT. Never played world of tanks...
@@MothaLuvatry the free app it lets you use it in battle sims,its very weak and slow but so satisfying to kill a tiger using it.
@@ronaldharris6569 I was never satisfied when a Tiger was killed.
@@MothaLuva its especially humorous when a bob semple lurches up to your partially disabled tiger,and puts a shot into your engine compartment
Oh yes, the project of Czechoslovak medium tank that could compete with early Panzers, yet ended up being sold to Hungary that would otherwise faced them in combat and entered service five years too late...
I would like to know more about why they changed its gun from 47mm to 40mm. One thing was logistics but on wiki its said that Hungarian military experts stated it had no extra penetration over their 40mm which i find weird based on penetration tables.
Probably availability issues, how available a gun would affect which gun is mounted even if the other guns are better, as an example, IS-2 would have used D-10 100mm gun which has better performance than D-25 122mm gun, however because the 122mm gun and ammunition was more readily available, it was chosen instead, although later the D-10 is used mainly by SU-100 in the later years of the war, and the T-54 and T-55, and the Chinese Type-59 after the war, and some outliers like the T-34-100, T-44-100
The 40mm the put in it was considerably longer barrelled thus higher velocity, and had similar penentration to the larger caliber shorter gun.
Thank you all for these vids .
Nice tank, for 1940. By 1943 when it was available in numbers it was well outclassed.
The oversize rocket round was in concept identical to the Stielgranate 41 used with the 3.7cm PaK35/36 in German service. Although quite powerful in the role of punching holes in armor, these Monroe Effect projectiles had laughably short range. Moreover, imagine trying to fit one over the barrel of your main gun while in combat.
My guess? For ambush only.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stielgranate_41
I just found this channel. Very professional and high quality. I have subscribed.
I love the captions on the pictures in this video - they're hilarious!
This description totally fits everything that's hungarian.😆😆😆
Thank you man for making this vid.
What do you mean tesó
We hungarians forgive your pronunciations. I laughted on them a lot XD
*at
ők meg az angol tudásunkon nevetnek
@@doctorTF_2 Az is igaz :D
The committee stands in awe of this video!
Interesting and informative, thank you for sharing! :D
Great and thorough examination of Hungarian armor/industry! Well done!
I need some of these, and some Panzer 2/3/4 model A for my table top army.
Look online at Shapeways and some other 3d printer places. They make war gaming vehicles 3d printed, just depends on the scale you need.
flames of war makes a turan I and ii tanks.
What tabletop game are you playin
@@Chironex_Fleckeri am currently experimenting with a few, trying to keep in the 100 to 72 scales so i can use my original collection
@@spamuraigranatabru1149 Neat. Which game is best? My issue is finding a community to play with. Even with popular TTG like WH40k it's hard to find *good* people to play against. Lotta smelly people who don't understand fun lol
There are photographs of the Romanians using at least one captured Zrinyi and one Turan. The Red Army captured so many recoverable or intact Hungarian tanks that 5th Guards Tank Brigade had formed an independent battalion on them by September 1944. There were 32 vehicles, of which at least 8 were Turans, 3 were Zrinyis, 2 were Toldis and 2 were Nimrods.
The main prospective opponent that Hungary had an eye on was Romania. In so far as it put the Hungarians ahead of the Romanians in tank production, the Turan was a success.
Excuse us while we go have a fanboy moment in internal! So very nice to meet you!
Hey Mr. Axworthy, I've read most of your works and you are one of the reasons why I study Romanian armor. Is there anyway I can contact you.
It is worth noting that the hungarians lacked any form of heavy engineering or recovery vehicle, which quiet likely played a part in the great number of abandoned vehicles.
@@joshuamartinez6683 there was like 1 Romanian tank destroyer design, and a few modifications of foreign vehicles, Hungary had far more tanks and more impressive ones too like the 44M Tas, I would study Hungarian tanks if I were you
@@Player-st4hn that's not true they have a lot more designs that were prototypes, drawn up, and proposed. Post war they have infinitely more unique vehicles to study
Great video! But you did not mentioned the Turan III prototype with long barelled 75mm gun.
Romanian also wanted produce the Czech T-21 and T-22 as the R-3 tank, but didn’t have the manufacturing facilities until 1943 - 1944
I think that was Praga V-8-H
Ok and? It was just an idea so nobody cares
I think the Turan was based on the T-21 prototype not the Lt vz. 35
Thank - you .
Now we do the same.Buying a bounch of Leopard 2A7+s and manufacturing Lynx on acooperation.
@14:59, wait how much fuels is in each of these things?
265-litres?
that’s over a barrel!
I think you guys should do Turán II tank next
I expect this video to gain popularity very fast
Škoda A11, which was originally mounted on T-21, was a 47 mm not a 40 mm gun.
Yes, but it was rebarreled on request from Hungarians...
am i the only one who got scared as hell in 1:04 because this "yeaah" sounded so realistic?
I was looking around to see who yelled!
Better design then most of italys tanks
You got it all wrong. The panzers are poor men's Túrans.
The information about the machinegun is completely incorrerct, and so is the picture.
The picture is of a gebauer m1918 rotary observers machinegun developed for the austrohungarian airforce, and neither that, nor the 38/40m had anything to do with any other design.
They were original designs by franz gebauer, originally with shoulderstock and a 100 round pan magazine as an obesrver gun, and the 38 modification changed it to a belt feed and spade grips for use in armoured vehicles.
That accent is awesome.
More please. :D
Thanks for the very detailed video. I think these tanks would have been relatively effective in service in 1940-41, like PzKpfw III, but they were totally useless in 1944, like PzKpfw III.
Love the videos, but you need to work on your mic setup it's quite echoey
Before this article and video, I'd never realized how much this tank looked like a fattened pz 35 😆..it also would been interesting if they had used the pz 38s running gear instead, I wonder if the torsion bars would have provided a better ride.
The LT vz. 38 did not have torsion bar suspension but rather a leaf spring suspension.
@@BHuang92 huh!!.. didnt know that .had not looked that up before and had assumed it to be torsion bars...after looking at technical drawings, it's odd how it's just basically a reworked version of the pz35s suspension with bigger road wheels.
@@morteforte7033 V-8-H/ST vz.39 was from ČKD, same company that made LT vz.38, yet they used suspension with tiny wheels.
Also look up Škoda T-15, improved version of Pz.35(t) with bigger wheels.
@@jirja3192 that makes me want to go read up on the reasons why the 38 had larger road wheels.
The road wheels on the Panzer 38T are misleading and the suspension is actually leaf spring. Just like how a lot of people still claim that Russian tanks use a Christie suspension when they actually use torsion bars instead. The large road wheels, slack track, and lack of return rollers aren't necessarily indicative of a Christie suspension.
1:09 I have so many questions about this picture, first one is why there is a T-34-85 with a French roundel in the background??
Romanian roundel
@@TanksEncyclopediaYT oh okk the roundel seemed to me to be blue, white and red, thanks for the explanation!
Love your videos and your website btw, the team is doing a fantastic job!
that 28 dislike were the makers of the 40M Turán :D
QUESTION: Is this channel affiliated with the Tank Museum at Bovington? That intro music sounds familiar.
No.
@@TanksEncyclopediaYT ok, thanx. I like your work just the same.
you guys didnt talk about the Turan III, so now I wonder If there were any prototypes built or If its another paper tank WG decided to include in wot... also the Zrinyi looks like Semovente to me rather than Stug 3 but it still is cool, all those Hungarian designs look very interesting... heard of most of them but that Nimrod never heard of that one lol... you guys need to cover all those other designs mentioned in this video If you didnt already... also the Semovente development would be interesting to look at
That thing is really cool though my favorite will always be the Polish 7TP.
is that a t34 with french markings?
I thought too, but apparently it's a Romanian roundel, so red, yellow and blue, but the yellow probably became very pale because of the sun after a wile.
Does it have a sprocket front and back? Why! And it appears they're even different diameters!
Sprocket idlers have been used at times in order to keep the track from slipping.
Below 20 celsius is extremely cold?
Holy jump scare if wearing headphones in the first min fyi
Damn near gave me a heart attack
Nice tanks.
At 2:01 : there they are looking for a suitable tank.
Fun fact: the Turan is still built by Volkswagen today.
Cool video
15:30 20 degrees Celsius is 68 degrees Fahrenheit, not cold at all.
Probably -20
1:04 why there is soviet T-34 with french markings? How is this possible?
Romanian markings.
@@TanksEncyclopediaYT right, it looks white on first sight, but now I see it's yellow
Why are the subtitles so strange?
They are not subtitles, rather image captions
8:10 Maaaan, I almost died laughing :D
I think you made a mistake with the assault guns. Zrínyi I was the one with the 105 mm howitzer, because these were produced in series and participated in combat. The Zrínyi II was to be the one with the 75 mm long gun, AFAIK it reached only the prototype stage.
Incorrect, Zrinyi II was armed with a 105mm 40/43M Howitzer
Wish version of lt vz.38
4:18 Guten Tag!
It betrays my narrow perspective, but I struggle to understand why a country in Hungary's situation would try to build its own AFV at this time when so many other countries would have obliged. You mention Germany did not price its Pz at the right level, but surely Britain or America or France might?
America had no tanks to export. Britain had no tanks to export.
France did indeed have tanks to export, but they were with significant problems and Hungary was not aligned with France, so a sale was improbable.
@@TanksEncyclopediaYT thanks for the answer. When were they making the decision?
@@tamlandipper29 1938-1939
1939: Slovakia and Hungary are fighting each other for a while.
1940: Slovakia sends people to try to sell weapons to Hungary.
Europeans are freaking weird.
👍👍
djosz gyor. plz write it down for me, becouse i cant understand it. Anyway, godd video.
In the description, you have a link to the entire written article.
Diósgyőr
@@vendelkengyel4988 Thx
Thats harsh kinda to call it a poor man's panzer
1:15 wait wait i know... This is the Moon tank from tintin
they need to add Hungarian tanks to warthunder
Sorry its not hungarian tanks but have hungarian plane in Italy
Well have I got something to tell you
You are going to be very happy today then as gaijin is adding a Hungarian subtree today.
I wonder if an up sizing of the T-21 would have resulted in a really decent tank. Something able to take a 75mm gun it could have been a real tank for the Hungarian army
Turan could take the 75mm. But officials in the army though its main cannon was adequate. By the time they finished the prototype the allies bombed the factory were the prototype was and destroyed it.
It looks like the child of a 38t and a panzer III.
You should have a look at the 44M Tas , it's the child of a Panther and a T-34
yeah wtf is up with the Roosevelt picture lol
considering the economical disaster hungary was in after the dictatum of trianon what robbed the countly from almost all its heavy industry, mines, forests and railways its quite a huge achivement domestic hungarian vehicles were made
Turan 🐺
chieftain +8 ridiculous
1:12 wait a french t34 , A roman helmet ! Wtf
Romanian T-34. Scythian helmet.
Sounds like it was a death trap for the users.
Despite the reputation and hype, the biggest death traps in WWII was the german tanks. The mortality rate of tank crews tells the story. The german crews had the least chance to evacuate a destroyed vehicle. Especially with the later designs. The best chance to survive the destruction of the vehicle? Well, that title belongs to the Sherman.
@@egyeneskifli7808 Actuallytually I think Soviet tanks were the biggest death traps.
@@egyeneskifli7808 well I mean Germany lost the war os of course they would have high casualties
Wish the mexican military during the inter war period had taken the attempt to create another domestic tank and other vehicles
Why say "Panzerkampfwagon Vier" if you say "Ausf. ef one" a second later? Be consistent, either German or English numbers, not some weird mix.
Hungry loss 500,000 troops on the eastern front you would of thought the Germans would help them build a tank in a place which was also out of bomber range
men of war players would like to disagree
Interesting I like your funny Indian accent😀😀😀
Helló! Én egy Turán páncélos unokája vagyok! Sok Amerikai repülőgép végzete volt ! Alacsony repülési magasság volt a csapda ! Torony gépágyúk és némely tankon a csövön több gyűrű is volt ez jelentette a légvédelmi darabszámot ! Sok amerikai magabiztos pilóta veszett oda ! Mert lelőtték ! De sajna történt egy dolog a szenvicspáncél helyett , ólmot öntöttek a két acél lemez közé .Mely rossz védelmet és töbletfogyastást okozott . Tehát árulás történt ! A gyári dolgozók között diverzánsok okozták ! Nagyapa megúszta egy , gerinc zúzódással és át lőtték a száját ! Isten irgalmazzon azoknak akik el árulták a házát!
Turánon nem volt kompozit páncél.
AZ nem Turán volt, hanem Nimród.
Just a fat L-38 (literally)
What's up with all that cringe in the latest videos? 🥴
"Edited by ya boy Jim Zawacki
" theres the problem
@@DarkManLT Oh no 🙄🙄🙄
@@DarkManLT Now you get it. Believe me, it's only gonna get worse.
@@jimzawacki3041 I love IT!
heh turan .. itialy gave hungary the rivits germany gave them a Picture of a panzer 3 .. GO TO IT! ..
Get a good mic and your channel will take off.
its not that easy...
@@TanksEncyclopediaYT I know, but you're good, so it'll be worth it in the end. Keep up the good work!
@@raymondromanos1479 what we mean by that is that we need a new narrator and a script writer before we worry about microphones.
Our current narrator is doing it out of a lack of alternatives and he wants to be replaced
@@TanksEncyclopediaYT if you need help with scripts, I can edit, and possibly create content if needed.
@@raymondromanos1479 that would be amazing. Join our Discord server and send us a message there
There waz one Hungar....., not a Yugo
Hello there!
Heil Kaiser!
Yeah.. probably your ancestors were hungarian 😂
Sorry I stopped watching after the scream