Does this method work on all models? I'm thinking of earlier arching profiles like those of Nicola Amati and Stainer for example where the chanel is deep and wide.
I am not saying that this is the way they did it, but in my world, the method goes for all different models. The cool thing is that on for instance cellos, the Strad models become quite low and Montagnana are considerably higher.
OK, you say that after tuning the edge, you create the chanell and it is important to make the chanell close to the finished shape. So, I presume this applies to any model and you just cut the chanell appropriately before proceeding with the arching.
Yes! As I see it, it is important to make the chanel so that the arching can be worked as close to the edge as possible. If you don´t cut it, you can only "tune" the arching down to appr. 20 - 50 mm from the edge. When you make the final chanel all your work of tuning will be lost since the arching now created will affect the whole surface.
@@Kelvin-ed6ce The pitch will blend to whatever depth you have. Be concerned of having the same depth all around the plate, though. The depth of the provisional channel has nothing to do with the thickness of the plate at that point. It is just a stop for the arching before making the edge. You can skip the channel but then you have to make an edge without any scoop for a channel.
@@westerlundsviolinverkstada9892 haha,…no I mean the overall thickness of the wood itself. By taking away material to lower the rub or tapsound …do one has to respect a minimum of material…otherwise the plate could get too thin perhaps? Sorry for my stupid questions I only try to understand it fully… 🙏
@@pecator70 It is a very good idea to be careful when scooping out the inner part. However, the thickness is just what is left after the outer and inner arching is done. If you go down too far on the outside, it will get thinner at that spot when making the inner arch correct. A good advice is to match the inner rub-pitch to the outer at a certain spot where you are in question. The character of the sound can be deceitful. If it done perfect, the traditional thicknesses will occur. I make it as careful as I can. after that I measure and go back to try the spots where the thickness seems to be too much. It might also be that I have left too much on the outside by accident. I then make the adjustment from the outside.
Regarding the trimming of the roundness of the edges, you modify the curvature of the edges by stroking the edge with the fingers, and also there you modulate according to the pitch. But how do you avoid that the final distance between the ribs and the edge of the plates is getting nonuniform? Your violins are certainly uniform in the distance between the ribs and the absolute edge of top and back plates, and still the plates have identical roundness, and they have identical shape to the rib contour. This is something I struggle with a lot.
Hi Sergio! I don´t tune the final edge. I make it uniformly sticking out all way around. If it had a significant role in sound, a lot of the old violins should be badly affected. The reason I tune it before making the arching, is that by doing that, the provisional channel gets right and by that the low part of the arching also gets right. If there were irregularities in the outline before making the arching, the arching would be out of harmony.
@Westerlunds Violinverkstad AB Peter Westerlund Hi Peter, I understand that the provisional channel is a reference for finding the arching of the top or bottom. What I struggle with is getting the ribs to be perfectly aligned with the shape of the back and top. What do you use as reference for the roundness of the edges, the ribs in final arrangement with the blocks? From your stroking of the edges pf the top and back, it seemed that the circularity of the top and back was not only dictated by the ribs but also by the pitch Then, in worst case, the ribs may not be perfectly round and conform with the top and back form.
@@sergiomanzetti1021 I don´t really understand what you mean, but both the plastic mould as well as the inner mould are "tuned". If the ribs are made tight to that form, there will be a very small space for irregularities that can cause big problem.
@@westerlundsviolinverkstada9892 This is very important what you write. Should the ribs be a little loose or should they be pressed around the inner form, when one cuts out the top and back plate?
Does this method work on all models? I'm thinking of earlier arching profiles like those of Nicola Amati and Stainer for example where the chanel is deep and wide.
I am not saying that this is the way they did it, but in my world, the method goes for all different models.
The cool thing is that on for instance cellos, the Strad models become quite low and Montagnana are considerably higher.
Thank you. So I presume that the important thing is to create the channel as you want it first and then 'tune' from there.
@@GMBhatblocks I have to say that I don´t quite understand your question.
OK, you say that after tuning the edge, you create the chanell and it is important to make the chanell close to the finished shape. So, I presume this applies to any model and you just cut the chanell appropriately before proceeding with the arching.
Yes! As I see it, it is important to make the chanel so that the arching can be worked as close to the edge as possible. If you don´t cut it, you can only "tune" the arching down to appr. 20 - 50 mm from the edge. When you make the final chanel all your work of tuning will be lost since the arching now created will affect the whole surface.
@@westerlundsviolinverkstada9892 it all makes so much sense and I'm excited to try it out on my next instrument. Thanks again for sharing.
@@Kelvin-ed6ce The pitch will blend to whatever depth you have. Be concerned of having the same depth all around the plate, though. The depth of the provisional channel has nothing to do with the thickness of the plate at that point. It is just a stop for the arching before making the edge. You can skip the channel but then you have to make an edge without any scoop for a channel.
Maestro, what is the general thickness of this plate? Thanks!
If you mean the arching height it is about 14.5 mm on a del Gesu plate.
@@westerlundsviolinverkstada9892 haha,…no I mean the overall thickness of the wood itself. By taking away material to lower the rub or tapsound …do one has to respect a minimum of material…otherwise the plate could get too thin perhaps? Sorry for my stupid questions I only try to understand it fully… 🙏
@@pecator70 It is a very good idea to be careful when scooping out the inner part. However, the thickness is just what is left after the outer and inner arching is done. If you go down too far on the outside, it will get thinner at that spot when making the inner arch correct. A good advice is to match the inner rub-pitch to the outer at a certain spot where you are in question. The character of the sound can be deceitful. If it done perfect, the traditional thicknesses will occur. I make it as careful as I can. after that I measure and go back to try the spots where the thickness seems to be too much. It might also be that I have left too much on the outside by accident. I then make the adjustment from the outside.
Regarding the trimming of the roundness of the edges, you modify the curvature of the edges by stroking the edge with the fingers, and also there you modulate according to the pitch. But how do you avoid that the final distance between the ribs and the edge of the plates is getting nonuniform? Your violins are certainly uniform in the distance between the ribs and the absolute edge of top and back plates, and still the plates have identical roundness, and they have identical shape to the rib contour. This is something I struggle with a lot.
Hi Sergio! I don´t tune the final edge. I make it uniformly sticking out all way around. If it had a significant role in sound, a lot of the old violins should be badly affected. The reason I tune it before making the arching, is that by doing that, the provisional channel gets right and by that the low part of the arching also gets right. If there were irregularities in the outline before making the arching, the arching would be out of harmony.
@Westerlunds Violinverkstad AB Peter Westerlund Hi Peter, I understand that the provisional channel is a reference for finding the arching of the top or bottom. What I struggle with is getting the ribs to be perfectly aligned with the shape of the back and top. What do you use as reference for the roundness of the edges, the ribs in final arrangement with the blocks? From your stroking of the edges pf the top and back, it seemed that the circularity of the top and back was not only dictated by the ribs but also by the pitch Then, in worst case, the ribs may not be perfectly round and conform with the top and back form.
@@sergiomanzetti1021 I don´t really understand what you mean, but both the plastic mould as well as the inner mould are "tuned". If the ribs are made tight to that form, there will be a very small space for irregularities that can cause big problem.
@@westerlundsviolinverkstada9892 This is very important what you write. Should the ribs be a little loose or should they be pressed around the inner form, when one cuts out the top and back plate?
@@sergiomanzetti1021 I always try to make the ribs tight around the inner mould. In that way they follow the tuning of the moulds I already made.