Great topic and good advice... Having experienced this scenario, catastrophic engine failure at 300', I can say having that plan in place and a plan B, saved our lives. I will verbalize the abort, below altitude x and above altitude x on flights, but will not with passengers, especially my bride. She watched this with me and still says "I don't want to hear that what if, just do that pilot stuff". My bride was with me the day of the accident, she was calm and encouraging, even when I told her we were going down, brace yourself. I know it was mentioned that there is that initial moment of disbelief, but honestly, my training just kicked in and I flew the plane. There are so many variables that a pilot has to deal with in a very very short amount of time. I believe in the following; process it, react to it, don't second guess it, and make it happen. Thanks Christy, Martin, and Josh for getting the word out.
Your channel is so important to students thru seasoned career pilots. In the 1970s when I was 16 all there was for extra learning was aviation magazines with well written stories. Magazines were out of range for subscriptions so my father collected them from coworker pilot friends. Subject of a departure failure in brief my story. Cessna 150 leaving on the grass strip in NJ . Just bumpy enough that as I was climbing but low with an oversized hill ahead . The seat track released and slid me all the way back. Because of an article I had read I let go of the yoke and throttle as this can lead to power off and nose going up. That’s all I remember that the article was making a point of. I stretch to reach the yoke but somehow couldn’t reach it. Throttle still full. The plane was closer to level than climbing. Off comes the seat belt and on to my knees to start a turn away from rising terrain and continue to a safe altitude to sort out getting on the seat and sliding it forward and putting the seat belt back on. Lately I’ve seen videos of old crashes student to seasoned with unexplainable cause. One commenter menchined that the seat may have come loose. NTSB found nothing wrong with the plane. Had I not read the article months prior I may have slid back with the yoke and throttle in my hand at low altitude. I’m 60 now but 16 then. Love your channel. Maybe you could share this story with Dan Gryder and see if he’s heard any stories like mine.
Thanks for sharing this story! I know my mechanic “Cessna John” Efinger has told me the Cessna seats are notorious. He always pushes back before taking the runway and calls it the “Cessna shuffle.”
Student pilot here. My instructor, who I really like, has mentioned that above 500 agl, you can make the turn back. Most of what I've read says 1000 AGL. I enjoy round tables like this one that talk about each pilots perspectives. Christy did a great job moderating this. Thank you guys.
Mike, the most important thing I could tell you here is that picking a generic number is soooo wrong. In other words "500 agl is my line." The reason is because there are way to many variables to have a blanket set turnback line. A cross wind can make a 500 turnback that was possible the previous day, impossible if you turn the wrong way with the the wind. Density altitude plays. Every airport is different and might have better options straight out. Every plane is different. A Cub might easily do it. A Bonanza might not come even close. And the list goes on. If there's one thing I hope you take away is: Brief "Loss of Thrust on Takeoff" right before every takeoff and decide what you're going to do in those conditions. Then if it happens, you'll be prepared.
"Land somewhere forward of the wings" I really like that! More intuitive than "30 degrees." Would work really well with a low wing bird, maybe "forward of the strut" on a high wing.
When I was in the military we always did briefing on our flights what could happen and what to expect. I love flying but I also am prepared for what could happen and fly the aircraft all the way.
Wow! This episode has been hanging out for awhile! I was on the front row in the audience! I always brief my flights, even when I am by myself. It's just a great habit to get into.
Check list, check list, check list. This happened on my long cross country flight during my PPL training. I was taxing to the runway with mixture leaned. It was getting late and there were no night landings at my home airport. Another pilot radioed me to go in front of him and take the runway. I was rushed for many reasons, did not brief myself, and did not use my check list. I was not full rich when I departed the ground with hills (terrain) in front of me. The powerplant faltered about 50 feet off the ground. I realized what was going on and immediately went full rich. Everything turned out fine, but I was never rushed again, and I always used the check list. Thanks for the informative Vlog!
I lost a engine after take off but It quite at 7k feet and we landed at a private field in north Florida. I also had a engine out on take off out of Chattanooga in full IFR that one was fun. Both times we landed the aircraft on a runway and it was all good. But we made that check list a part of our routine. So we where ready for it.
Thanks for this one, nose down, fly the aircraft and let folks know what your gonna do..also if you know, this is where we are going...If your families with the airport you should have already given this some thought. If you are not you should have at least looked on the way in...
30+ years ago as a new Army Helicopter pilot our unit safety officer said in every single weekly pilots meeting, "First step in an emergency procedure is to remember to keep flying the aircraft." Several years later when I had a dual engine failure and one engine was on fire, as warning lights and horns came on and the crew chief was screaming that we were on fire, I clearly hear the calm voice of CW4 Brooks saying, "Don't forget to keep flying." Everything turned okay.
Great video. Are we really seeing an increase in disastrous take off accidents or are we seeing more analysis here on TH-cam? These discussions are very good.
Very important subject. Even if driving a car. Have you ever passed on a curve on a two lane road and ever thought what will I do if a surprise car comes head on toward me. No time to think.....should have made a plan in my mind...but didn't. Always good to have a plan at least in the mind just in case especially when it comes to aviation.
Great advice! Been there had that happen.Yes engine out / mechanical failures affecting power do happen and more often than we know. Many such incidences such as mine, are not reported because the outcome was good and there was no damage. Briefing before take off is a great idea for everyone! Adding it to my checklist. And love as was mentioned, you MUST fly it all the way to the crash site! "Bob Hoover"
Just had my third lesson in a Piper Warrior, and so far I'm doing good. But when it comes to the take off and landing, I'm way behind the airplane! When it comes time for me to take the controls for a take off or landing, I just hope I don't mess up! I'm using my free time right now to do 3 to 4 lessons a week, so we'll see how fast I progress. A bit nervous, but enjoying it as well. Cheers from Winnipeg.
Thanks for sharing Peter! Of course Christy is partial to the Cherokee. At your rate, you’ll move right along! Don’t get discouraged if you feel the training plateaus occasionally- that’s normal.
If you want to see a great demonstration of a pre-departure briefing, check out Missionary Bush Pilot on TH-cam. He verbally runs through each of the three scenarios pointed out by Josh, including physically going through the motions for every flight. This is critical in his situation as the strips are all short, narrow, sloped, grassy or muddy with critical terrain obstructions.
Engine failure. 1. Before v1: cut power bring plane to full stop. 2. Under 1000 feet 'push the nose down, keep control of plane, land in best location. 3. Above 1000 feet - return to runway/safe area. Matters of interest co ordination of turn? Keep engine in best operational condition.🇭🇲
Using 1000 feet as a cutoff is not wise. Whether you will make it back depends upon the airplane and the relationship between its climb and glide slopes. If climb is too shallow or glide is too steep you will not make it back from any altitude. Runway length and headwind are also more important than altitude.
Always say loud what you will do if lose engine under turnback altitude and over turnback altitude. Say it loud, not wimpy way. You need to be tough on those engine fails..
Great video, Christy - thank you. So appreciative of Dan Gryder, Flight Chops, Josh, Martin, Bryan, Blancolirio and all the others who are so diligent in trying to get this information out there to stem the tide of GA accidents. Natalie Kelly has a great video discussing her recent emergency landing ( th-cam.com/video/HaeOHWxs6tY/w-d-xo.html ) and, while hers was not during take-off, she talks about how difficult it is to NOT pull back on the yoke during a real emergency. Worth a watch.
Everything you guys said is true, but I would like to add that I feel like the real problem is pilots being macho and developing normalization of deviance. Example being, I briefed before take off that if engine failure a cures at 1000 or below I’m landing straight ahead but I’m a better pilot than most and I know I can do it at 500 feet.
You should train and do everything in your power to get the aircraft back on the ground safely, trusting God and asking for His help is at the top of my list. There are times when all you can do in your own power isn't enough, God is trustworthy.
I am a student pilot with my instructor, finishing my run up and over my coms I hear are you ready to go. My instructor replied yes and said to me come on let’s go. I was not ready to go but my instructor was. I ask him. WHO IS FLYING THIS PLANE.
People fly and drive just like in video games, they are accustom to it. I personally know dozen people who confessed to it, real life experience is biting back.
I'm not sure about that recommendation to push forward on the controls. Its important not to pull back. Simply relaxing the pitch control and let the trim seek its own speed is probably better.
I always think about what I will do if the engine quits on takeoff, but I don't do a pre-departure brief and would never say it out loud with a non pilot passenger and scare him. I also think it's a little dangerous to say, "I'm only landing forward (30° left or right)" any time I'm below 1000' AGL. The alternative out in front may be more dangerous than attempting "the impossible turn". I know that it has become fashionable to never turn back to the runway under any circumstance, but it could be the safest option as long as the pilot keeps enough airspeed in the aggressive turn he would have to make to get back to the runway. Of course, if there's an open field or other relatively benign options in front of me, that's what I'm going to take, but I am not as dogmatic as theses guys are about it.
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Takeoff briefings should be taught way more in the primary stage of flight instruction. Thanks for making this video.
Great topic! Required on every airline flight and military flight ( w/more than 2 pilots). Even if solo you need to review the plan.
Great topic and good advice...
Having experienced this scenario, catastrophic engine failure at 300', I can say having that plan in place and a plan B, saved our lives. I will verbalize the abort, below altitude x and above altitude x on flights, but will not with passengers, especially my bride. She watched this with me and still says "I don't want to hear that what if, just do that pilot stuff". My bride was with me the day of the accident, she was calm and encouraging, even when I told her we were going down, brace yourself.
I know it was mentioned that there is that initial moment of disbelief, but honestly, my training just kicked in and I flew the plane. There are so many variables that a pilot has to deal with in a very very short amount of time. I believe in the following; process it, react to it, don't second guess it, and make it happen. Thanks Christy, Martin, and Josh for getting the word out.
Thanks for sharing!
Your channel is so important to students thru seasoned career pilots. In the 1970s when I was 16 all there was for extra learning was aviation magazines with well written stories. Magazines were out of range for subscriptions so my father collected them from coworker pilot friends. Subject of a departure failure in brief my story. Cessna 150 leaving on the grass strip in NJ . Just bumpy enough that as I was climbing but low with an oversized hill ahead . The seat track released and slid me all the way back. Because of an article I had read I let go of the yoke and throttle as this can lead to power off and nose going up. That’s all I remember that the article was making a point of. I stretch to reach the yoke but somehow couldn’t reach it. Throttle still full. The plane was closer to level than climbing. Off comes the seat belt and on to my knees to start a turn away from rising terrain and continue to a safe altitude to sort out getting on the seat and sliding it forward and putting the seat belt back on. Lately I’ve seen videos of old crashes student to seasoned with unexplainable cause. One commenter menchined that the seat may have come loose. NTSB found nothing wrong with the plane. Had I not read the article months prior I may have slid back with the yoke and throttle in my hand at low altitude. I’m 60 now but 16 then. Love your channel. Maybe you could share this story with Dan Gryder and see if he’s heard any stories like mine.
Thanks for sharing this story! I know my mechanic “Cessna John” Efinger has told me the Cessna seats are notorious. He always pushes back before taking the runway and calls it the “Cessna shuffle.”
Student pilot here. My instructor, who I really like, has mentioned that above 500 agl, you can make the turn back. Most of what I've read says 1000 AGL. I enjoy round tables like this one that talk about each pilots perspectives. Christy did a great job moderating this. Thank you guys.
Mike, the most important thing I could tell you here is that picking a generic number is soooo wrong. In other words "500 agl is my line." The reason is because there are way to many variables to have a blanket set turnback line. A cross wind can make a 500 turnback that was possible the previous day, impossible if you turn the wrong way with the the wind. Density altitude plays. Every airport is different and might have better options straight out. Every plane is different. A Cub might easily do it. A Bonanza might not come even close. And the list goes on. If there's one thing I hope you take away is: Brief "Loss of Thrust on Takeoff" right before every takeoff and decide what you're going to do in those conditions. Then if it happens, you'll be prepared.
"Land somewhere forward of the wings" I really like that! More intuitive than "30 degrees." Would work really well with a low wing bird, maybe "forward of the strut" on a high wing.
When I was in the military we always did briefing on our flights what could happen and what to expect.
I love flying but I also am prepared for what could happen and fly the aircraft all the way.
Wow! This episode has been hanging out for awhile! I was on the front row in the audience! I always brief my flights, even when I am by myself. It's just a great habit to get into.
Check list, check list, check list. This happened on my long cross country flight during my PPL training. I was taxing to the runway with mixture leaned. It was getting late and there were no night landings at my home airport. Another pilot radioed me to go in front of him and take the runway. I was rushed for many reasons, did not brief myself, and did not use my check list. I was not full rich when I departed the ground with hills (terrain) in front of me. The powerplant faltered about 50 feet off the ground. I realized what was going on and immediately went full rich. Everything turned out fine, but I was never rushed again, and I always used the check list. Thanks for the informative Vlog!
Glad you saw right away.
My instructors taught me from day one to make an engine out on takeoff briefing.
I lost a engine after take off but It quite at 7k feet and we landed at a private field in north Florida. I also had a engine out on take off out of Chattanooga in full IFR that one was fun. Both times we landed the aircraft on a runway and it was all good. But we made that check list a part of our routine. So we where ready for it.
Great job!! Keep up the good content. Enjoy your show immensely.
Thanks for this one, nose down, fly the aircraft and let folks know what your gonna do..also if you know, this is where we are going...If your families with the airport you should have already given this some thought. If you are not you should have at least looked on the way in...
This was really good. Especially since I just started my first hours of soloing.
Awesome Russ! Let us know how your training goes!!
30+ years ago as a new Army Helicopter pilot our unit safety officer said in every single weekly pilots meeting, "First step in an emergency procedure is to remember to keep flying the aircraft." Several years later when I had a dual engine failure and one engine was on fire, as warning lights and horns came on and the crew chief was screaming that we were on fire, I clearly hear the calm voice of CW4 Brooks saying, "Don't forget to keep flying." Everything turned okay.
Wow.
Great info. Thank you
Thank you, watching from Jamaica
Very cool!
Great video. Are we really seeing an increase in disastrous take off accidents or are we seeing more analysis here on TH-cam? These discussions are very good.
Great topic and video. Awesome job! 🤘🇺🇸🛩️
Outstanding!
Very important subject. Even if driving a car. Have you ever passed on a curve on a two lane road and ever thought what will I do if a surprise car comes head on toward me. No time to think.....should have made a plan in my mind...but didn't. Always good to have a plan at least in the mind just in case especially when it comes to aviation.
Great advice! Been there had that happen.Yes engine out / mechanical failures affecting power do happen and more often than we know. Many such incidences such as mine, are not reported because the outcome was good and there was no damage. Briefing before take off is a great idea for everyone! Adding it to my checklist. And love as was mentioned, you MUST fly it all the way to the crash site! "Bob Hoover"
Just had my third lesson in a Piper Warrior, and so far I'm doing good. But when it comes to the take off and landing, I'm way behind the airplane! When it comes time for me to take the controls for a take off or landing, I just hope I don't mess up! I'm using my free time right now to do 3 to 4 lessons a week, so we'll see how fast I progress. A bit nervous, but enjoying it as well. Cheers from Winnipeg.
Thanks for sharing Peter! Of course Christy is partial to the Cherokee. At your rate, you’ll move right along! Don’t get discouraged if you feel the training plateaus occasionally- that’s normal.
So, are you saying that closing your eyes and screaming “I’M COMIN’ HOME JESUS!” Is not the best solution? Man I’ve been doing this all wrong. ;)
🤣
If you want to see a great demonstration of a pre-departure briefing, check out Missionary Bush Pilot on TH-cam. He verbally runs through each of the three scenarios pointed out by Josh, including physically going through the motions for every flight. This is critical in his situation as the strips are all short, narrow, sloped, grassy or muddy with critical terrain obstructions.
Engine failure.
1. Before v1: cut power bring plane to full stop.
2. Under 1000 feet 'push the nose down, keep control of plane, land in best location.
3. Above 1000 feet - return to runway/safe area.
Matters of interest co ordination of turn? Keep engine in best operational condition.🇭🇲
Using 1000 feet as a cutoff is not wise. Whether you will make it back depends upon the airplane and the relationship between its climb and glide slopes. If climb is too shallow or glide is too steep you will not make it back from any altitude. Runway length and headwind are also more important than altitude.
Thank you, environmental conditions would effect the glide, ( I wouldn't have calculated much with engine out).
🌏🦙
Best preparation at the holding point. Brief that every takeoff is going to have an engine failure.
Always say loud what you will do if lose engine under turnback altitude and over turnback altitude. Say it loud, not wimpy way. You need to be tough on those engine fails..
Great video, Christy - thank you. So appreciative of Dan Gryder, Flight Chops, Josh, Martin, Bryan, Blancolirio and all the others who are so diligent in trying to get this information out there to stem the tide of GA accidents. Natalie Kelly has a great video discussing her recent emergency landing ( th-cam.com/video/HaeOHWxs6tY/w-d-xo.html ) and, while hers was not during take-off, she talks about how difficult it is to NOT pull back on the yoke during a real emergency. Worth a watch.
I get it. Contingency Plan "B". When plan A works, you really feels good. Maybe surprized. KJZI
Everything you guys said is true, but I would like to add that I feel like the real problem is pilots being macho and developing normalization of deviance. Example being, I briefed before take off that if engine failure a cures at 1000 or below I’m landing straight ahead but I’m a better pilot than most and I know I can do it at 500 feet.
I agree
You should train and do everything in your power to get the aircraft back on the ground safely, trusting God and asking for His help is at the top of my list. There are times when all you can do in your own power isn't enough, God is trustworthy.
I am a student pilot with my instructor, finishing my run up and over my coms I hear are you ready to go.
My instructor replied yes and said to me come on let’s go. I was not ready to go but my instructor was.
I ask him. WHO IS FLYING THIS PLANE.
Start screaming immediately. Then get to work.
or string out your curses
People fly and drive just like in video games, they are accustom to it. I personally know dozen people who confessed to it, real life experience is biting back.
Steezy Kane
I'm not sure about that recommendation to push forward on the controls. Its important not to pull back. Simply relaxing the pitch control and let the trim seek its own speed is probably better.
Who is the new girl and why is she wearing Christy's pants?
I always think about what I will do if the engine quits on takeoff, but I don't do a pre-departure brief and would never say it out loud with a non pilot passenger and scare him. I also think it's a little dangerous to say, "I'm only landing forward (30° left or right)" any time I'm below 1000' AGL. The alternative out in front may be more dangerous than attempting "the impossible turn". I know that it has become fashionable to never turn back to the runway under any circumstance, but it could be the safest option as long as the pilot keeps enough airspeed in the aggressive turn he would have to make to get back to the runway. Of course, if there's an open field or other relatively benign options in front of me, that's what I'm going to take, but I am not as dogmatic as theses guys are about it.
15 minutes to get to the useful information of 5 minutes at the end! What a waste of time!