A better way around a lot of the high load and high surge issues is to get them off the main inverter. Things like well pumps, air compressors, tank hot water heaters, old style ovens, welders, etc do not need pure sine wave inverters. Most of those things require dedicated wiring so it is often easier to put them on a MUCH cheaper(non pure sine inverter). This also allows you to run a smaller (more cost effective) inverter for the house. Most of the time once you pull those high load items off the inverter you can drop back to a 120V inverter for the main house.
Re the scope settings I can see ch1 is set to 100mV per division ch2 50V per division. So I think you are seeing noise on neutral in channel 1. Channel 2 looks good and just need to change the gain on ch1 to match. Happy inverting !
David, great video. I have a similar setup to your friend, using LV5048 tied to the utility, 2x270W of solar panels and using a 14s/1p LEAF battery (48V). I built it to provide emergency power for my pumphouse. It's connected to a 240V 1.5HP BOOST PUMP. I didn't bother with the well pump since we have a 2500gallon tank. The LV5048 is awesome. My system runs very reliably with the utility on or off (simulating a power down), and provides the inrush current required by the BOOST PUMP motor. Measured battery load in normal operation is 38A, but there is an inrush current of 143A (3.7x). BTW, the settings I used for the LEAF Li-Ion battery were VMAX=57.4V, VMIN=47.6V. The inrush current is a huge issue especially for inverters. It seems that if you size the inverter to support the inrush current of the mitre saw, it might have to 4x bigger than you really need. An alternative would be to 'soft start' the motors, but for some applications they do rely on a huge inrush current if under load from the start. Brian
I recently purchased this inverter and have been testing it out with some old lead acid batteries while I finish building my 18650 DIY Powerwall. I really like the unit so far considering the capabilities versus the price. It runs my old beer fridge and mancave air conditioner with no problems.
You wait till you get your SMA Sunny Island setup and running, you will be impressed, no noise, and it has handled everything I've thrown at mine over the last year !!!!
I trust you've noticed that the probe for channel 1 of your scope was not connected correctly. It was showing only 100 millivolts of noise. Channel two was using the 50V per division scale and showed a good sine wave. While the LV5048 inverter could not drive your saw, at least it didn't blow out like another one you tested. For me this inverter is a non-starter due to its 145 V max solar input. My 20 solar panels are each 325 watts at 69V peak. I would have to run all my panels in parallel. Most existing home solar is hooked up in strings that can make around 450V max. Thanks for the video.
@DIY Projects Good point! Here in sunny California the cheapest solution is simple series strings with MPPT inverters and it works well throughout the year. Your dual inverter setup confuses me. Are your inverters not MPPT? Otherwise I don't see why a smaller inverter maximizes PV. Better efficiency for the smaller inverter?
I believe you can put the unit in 2A0 mode (120V output, L1 and L2 in phase) and short the L1 and L2 outputs with a jumper to get full power (5000W) at 120V. This is what was recommended to me by Andy at MPPSolar and it worked.
Only if you dont have 240v input from grid. If you dont do the jumper the unit will not charge your batteries with grid. Some people trick the unit with jumper to make grid possible when 240v grid is not available.
Thank you for sharing this video David. I hope that this will work for your buddy's well pump. All depends on the horse power rating and the inrush current but since he needs 240 volts, there is a good chance that it will handle the load. And yes, transformer based inverter the way to go for an inductive loads. I guess the only disadvantage is- larger they are and while in idle, they draw more current on DC side. Thanks for your video, it does help when it comes to decision making on what type of inverter to buy.
and that makes so much sense that they'd build 2 parallel inverters as it saves weight ! Otherwise, you'd need a center tap transformer to create 230 split phase. Think Schneider, or Magnum north American products, the center tap transformer is inside the box. The problem is the weight ! They have to ship these things from Taiwan to the North American market. So I get it. Makes total sense. Now, the question is- "starting capacity" as a large center-tap transformer is like a large 'flywheel', it stores and releases energy thus yielding surge capacity for starting large motors. And now I'll watch the rest of your awesome video to find out the starting capacity result. Hoping it's good !
Just installed a lv 5048 totally off grid system for a friend with a 240 volt well pump and in ran without and problem. I hooked up only 1 kw solar per side with 15 kw battery. Everything worked well, no problem. We’ll add more solar later.
Hey David I am the guy with the retired SnapOn Truck I am turning into an off-grid tiny home on wheels. You are a freaking genius this stuff looks like Rocket Science to me. lol
This is the channel i like to tune in to see test runnings of new and powerful Hi or LO FREQUENCY inverters . Some may or may not last but when it comes to that Mighty Table Saw , I will always say the large and more powerful LOW FREQUENCY inverters always rule over the HIGH FREQUENCY inverters .when it comes to loads that needs the most surge for the highest amp draw . Although the 8000 Watt new black RELIANCE was the only powerful HIGH FREQUENCY inverter I saw that could run those heavy loads with no problem . Always like your videos and MAY THE SOLAR BE WITH YOU for 2020 .
Hi there! Try using some softstarter to avoid that current peak during start... it reaches around 8 times the nominal current, this might trip your system
The way it was setup was a 5000W at 240V or two separate 2500W at 120V so it will not work with your high 120V load set up this way. If you set it back to original I think you can parallel the 120V inverters as they will be in sink and then you have a single 5000W 120V inverter and will be able to power your higher power 120V loads.
This a very good question that should be answered by the manufacturer. In that item 28 when the setting was 2A0, Mr. Poz read 120 volts in each phase...but 0 volts between the hot cables....Hence, it might be possible that both inverters can work together to deal with huge surges!!!! I'm just saying...it is a good possibility...or maybe not...It should be answered by whoever designed this!!!!
tonymac96 it should have been turned off 240 split to max load it. His still don’t understand that he needs to run off more than basically a 2500 inverter for that power Hungary non soft start saw of his. I like learning from his over ambitious nature on high freak inverters that he to this day does not understand. . ....you MUST double or triple size these inverters. It’s not a low freak high $$$$ inverters!
@@6969smurfy yeah the starting inrush i imagine cooks a temp sensor.. then repeat the test... lol i run the same stuff on both phases fine. but i also shut my 5048 down when the dryer is running and i forget and start the microwave!! been off grid for 1.5 years with this rig.
I went with the PIP LV 6048 units (x2) instead. Each has Grd/L1/L2/N very easy to set up. With 200Ah of Batteries, this set up can start my big 6Hp air compressor (Peak Amp on start is 27A 240 volt for a few seconds!) Super happy with the MPP units. 9 440W solar panels on the roof feed this system, 15A utility available for charging if no sun for a few days.
I noticed with one 6048 I also had trouble to start a chop saw, but no problem with the well pump. The unbalance error came up with the chop saw, and putting a smallish load (lights) on the other leg solved this generally, but occationally still an error. Later when i had two 6048 and two 100Ah batteries, no problem to start bigger motors even 120 volt ones. For anyone reading this, some items like air compressors may have motors that can be internally set for 120 or 240, by using 240 the amperage will be half and will always be in balance on the inverters.
I have 3 of these LV5048 units running in parallel. A couple of things to point out: First, by using the recommended spacing between the units per the manufacturer's own instructions (about 8") the cables they include aren't long enough to run from the first unit to the third unit, so you'll have to source an extension on your own for one of them. Second, they recently modified the manual to correct an error which inadvertently excluded the current sharing cables. Word to the wise - be sure to obtain the latest installation manual directly from MPP Solar and don't trust either the paper manual or just any old PDF copy you might find on Google. This would have saved me days of frustration.
@Dave Zimmerman It should (in theory) When the compressor kicks in is when the inductive spike is created Same as a pump motor. Ask the manufactures tech support before you commit to buy.
Every time David does an inverter test with the miter saw, I think the very same thing. Put a soft start on that puppy. Problem solved! I install soft starts on the AC unit(s) of every customer who'll opt for it. Smoothing the in-rush current is better overall and significantly extends the life of the compressor.
You should have at least tried the miter saw by itself on the 120v mode bet it would work. and might even work on one leg by itself on the 240v setting but doubt it. It states in literature that it is 5000 watts 120v if placed in 120v mode
On your oscilloscope, have you looked at your house power, it will look smoother, the reason it shows two colors is so you can see and identify both channels while using it. Most large saws have to have a 30A. My saw won’t work on a 20A breaker either. If your friend uses a starting capacitor on both phases for his well that might help it to work for him. Very nice video.
David Most of the time the issue with surge draws is the voltage drop on the DC side. Batteries just cannot respond on the sub millisecond time scale. The low frequency inverters have a large enough coil to store enough energy to give the batteries time enough to respond. IF you install a ultra capacitor bank in parallel with the batteries on a high frequency inverter it will have the same effect. Back in the 1980s when running CNCs in areas with "flickering" power we would install two transformers back to back. A step down transformer from 480 down tow 240 followed by a step up transformer from 220 up to 480. The coils would smooth out the surges and drops.
my camper system could not start the air conditioner because the batteries would droop at the inrush. Adding a 28 F super cap to the dc side fixed this. these are available for auto sub-woofer amps.
I've watched this video a few times because I originally considered purchasing the LV5048 for my new off-grid solar system. After considering possibly pairing two of them and all of the additional money to bring them connected and running with the panels I have it made me look at the Sol-Ark 12k.
This video was very helpful, I was considering this inverter for a system that would start multiple refrigeration units Seeing it die from starting a miter saw motor with its comparatively much lower surge has told me to stay away from this for my application, not enough surge capacity
Patrick, I think if this inverter were configured as 120v 5kw it would do the job. Instead Poz configured it as 2x 2.5kw inverters out of phase with each other. It should run the well pump in that config. I also seek a solution to run 3 fridges & freezers (along with other smaller 120v loads) and want to find a low cost way to do that. I think the MPP 5048 inverter is the answer.
Give me a pair of Outback FX/FXR inverters any day. Throw in a couple of Outback Flexmax 80 controllers while you're at it. In the very rare instance that any of it goes down, I have redundancy,, critical for those of us who are totally off grid. (My first MX60 has been going strong since 2Q 2003) Anyway, ten of the 24 volt LiFePo4 modules arrived a couple of days ago and testing has begun. So far, all cells look very good, coming into balance (
Line to Line voltage in a 2 phase system would be 208 volts not 240 volts, this is a split phase system as your title of the video implies. This system does not output 2 phase power but can output 240 volt single phase or from what you initially measured before changing setting 28; two separate 120 volt single phase power outputs. Thanks for the video, it's really helpful to watch someone actually set up one of these systems. You can see how well it's built and the features it has first hand, looks like a really nice system.
David, after doing some testing and learning. It is highly likely that if you let it run as one phase it would have ran the saw no problem. It is advised to just leave the unit as single phase unless you need split phase. That would have allowed a surge of over 7kw of power which likely would have been no problem. Those with more than one unit don't see to have any issues with massive surge, or running a soft start.
I think with the Saw, if you pull the trigger for half second and let go, then pull again you might be able to get it to start up. You might need to do the pulse trigger 3 times. With the size of the blade that's a lot of mass to get rotating in a short amount of time. I would recommend using a soft start kit on the pump, just so the inverter isn't getting hit full peak every time the pump kicks on. Altho, if the pump only pulls 50% load on each phase on startup, it'll probably be fine.
@@korishan I would want an inverter to start saws and pumps and more importantly not breaking down after 3 weeks. That mob also has a habit of threatening legal action if you publicly complain
Dave, put the unit back in 120v mode, I'm guessing the surge will double and will run the dewalt miter saw, I'm guessing this is no different then a voltage switch on a generator that switches the windings to parallel vs out of phase. pretty sure the inverters will share the load in 120v mode.
@Richard Vaughn Your smart, Xc is interesting with AC, I just installed an Easy Start to my 15k btu roof AC on RV to run it off solar, my plan is to make it work this weekend, fingers crossed.
This is the only one of your videos I didn't love. You see I have a LV5048 and I has been working great supplying power to my home. I used common every day appliances with no problem. If I want to used appliances with high current draw or maybe buy an electric car I would just buy two more LV 5048. They are stackable. I still like the video though:)
Please make a follow up video after your friend will hook it up to his well pump, I’m very interested if it will run it. Thanks a lot for creating interesting content
I AM ALSO INTERESTED IN HOOKING UP A SOLAR TO MY 2.0HP WELL PUMP. I HAVE NOTE PURCHASED ANYTHING YET BUT WILL BE FOLLOWING YOU. SO FAR, I'M NOT CONVINCED IN PURCHASING THIS LV4058
This video definitely helped me , I was on the verge of purchasing this model however after this review I will revert to my original plan and do separate charge controler and inverter. At least if my inverter is rated at 5000 watts , I know that's what I'm getting .
Miter Saw - 1800 running watts, 3400 startup watts Table Saw - 1800 running watts. 3500 startup watts Circular Saw - 1800 running watts, 3200 startup watts Power Tool Battery Charger - 330 watts so that you need single phase 3500W or above so that 8KW inverter may required.
Thanks for posting this video. It's too bad the unit was not able to carry the miter saw. I noticed the saw was drawing 30-35 amps on initial startup. Surge is probably too quick to notice, but I'm thinking twice that. This unit is rated for 40 amps, though not surge. Beyond 40 it goes into bypass mode. My experience with other units is that if it says it's rated for 40 amps, for instance, it's either right at 40 or less. My guess is it can't really take on 30 amps. These particular units are made to be paralleled. I wonder if they might perform better with two or three (the maximum) at three phase. My guess is the maximum amps is 100 at that point....more than enough to run the miter saw. The unit can only take 145VDC so my guess are that panels are paralleled to produce higher amperage's for that quick surge. The units I use allow for higher voltages from the panels so I'm not burning up wires on the roof with high amperage. I prefer more inverter's paralleled with less amperage on the roof while handling high amperage to the load with a 'team' of inverter's sharing the load. Of course...that means more money too. Wished there were two of those units. I really wanted to see it perform in parallel.
I was looking at this MPP-Solar All In One unit too. Now I know it has inputs for two sets of solar panels for the split phase output. I decided to try out (just order last week) one the 24v Hybrid from MPP Solar for up to 2400 Watt Solar input for about 20 amp 120v ac output in an all in one unit. Wondering about that 220/240 v ac sine wave you got. Thanks for your review
First of all, I always enjoy your different videos, and have subscribed to your channel for a long time. So not trolling. I know you have said in the past that people freak out when you don’t use the incorrect term “split phase”, but no amount of freaking out will make wrong information become correct. There is no such thing as a split phase inverter, and each line “hot” is not a phase, just a “line”. It is a single phase inverter, two lines and a neutral. Specially 120/240 volt, single phase. About this inverter itself, a couple of things. 75 watts just to run with no load is absolutely appalling. And not being able to start that miter saw, even with only half of it at 2500 watts is almost as bad. That super annoying piezoelectric squeaker is Terrible! I like the built in charge controllers. And that’s pretty much it. It is amazing how far we haven’t come. My Trace Engineering inverter from twenty years ago is 4 kW continuous, but can surge to 10 kW, and believe me, I have tested it. I’ve run 3 hp induction motors with it. It’s no load input power is only 16 watts. No comparison. Well pumps are notorious for their high locked rotor KVA requirements, so I’d bet this unit won’t be up to the task, unless his well pump is particularly small. Take care, keep up the good work on your videos, and don’t be afraid to use correct terminology. The world is mostly full of the ignorant, but we don’t need to join them in their ignorance just because we are living solidly in the Misinformation Era. ;)
There is too much noise on the wave, thank you for this video. In fact, I have considered to buy it. maybe I have to choose the other one even expensive.
You might try changing the setting back to single phase 120 and parallel L1 and L2 then try running them. It might work because I'm guessing the miter saw is drawing too much on one leg. but having both parallel it should be able to handle it, but if not not I'd consider it to be a good thing as it would prevent blowing mosfets.
I believe you’re correct. The instruction manual says to select “0” phase and connect L1 and L2 (parallel) to do exactly what you said. I think it would handle the miter saw.
He could replace his pump with a solar direct DC pump up to a cistern then run a less demanding pressure pump. If filtered and treated he could collect rainwater into the cistern.
Solar direct pump to an IBC tote, then a DC submersible pump for all the water necessary. Combine with propane tankless water heater, or something like a rocket stove/heat exchanger, for hot water.
@@ARepublicIfYouCanKeepIt proper 1000 gallon water tanks are cheap and better for sanitation. This would allow a buffer of water incase of emergency or solar/pump failure. If he lives on or near a hill then he could pump up to a gravity-feed water system. Solar thermal heated water would then be an option too, or some combination with a heat pump water heater that favored running mid-day.
Hi, I'm looking for one of these solar inverters for a van conversion. I have 2 solar panels with this spec - Watt: 310Wp, Max Snow Load: 5400Pa , 112lb/ft2, Max Voltage Vmp: 32.67V, Max Current Imp: 9.49A, Number of cells: 60, Open Circuit Volts: 40.08V, Short Circuit Amps: 9.28A, Module Efficiency: 19.00%, Max System Volts: 1000VDC, Power Tolerance: 0 - 3%, Max Series Fuse: 15A. What's the best inverter and battery setup to go with for two of these solar panels? Any help would be hugely appreciated.
That saw has must have killer inrush current load, try adding something like a 5 to 10 ohm power resistor in series with the saw to limit the inrush. You will need to experiment to find the lowest value that will not trip the inverter when the saw starts. Also wire a switch across the resistor so you can bypass the resistor once the saw motor starts turning before making a cut. If this works then you can make an automatic equivalent with a relay that will automatically bypass the resistor after the motor starts. The series resistor is only needed for less than a second. Once the motor starts turning the the motor's back EMF will significantly lower the saw's load current requirement.
Good idea! a cheap delay on relay from Ebay would seem to do the trick.... relay starts out in normally open, and the only way to get power to the saw is via your reististor. The 5 seconds later the relay goes closed and shunts across the resistor effectively bypassing it. Great idea.
Use a cheap timer delay on relay from ebay. Route power thru resistor to saw. Relay turns on and shunts across relay in 5 seconds effectively bypassing the resistor.
L1 and L2 on the o-scope did not appear to be 180° out. Looked more like inverter was set up for 3 phase @ 120°. Still that wouldn't have influenced your tests on the 120 legs though.
Would like to have seen the scope before trying any loads? Wondering if the different scans might mean a bad mosfett or something ? I haven't had much experience with scopes, I only have one of those little kits I built, but it shows when there are proper sine waves and I have never seen a spastic looking line like that on anything that was working. I'm sure someone has the explanation, maybe Electro Boom is watching?
Nice video David, lot’s of good testing happening. MPP is pretty good for all-in-one no frills setup. I’m looking at the PIP single phase for my outdoor project. With no UL certification, makes it a no go for an inside install...
It's not that inside install is not good. It's just not certified to feed back into the grid. All Mpp inverters switch to grid when load is out of it's reach. But they are good for it's limits.
@@mexicanracer03 Backfeeding to the grid is not the issue here (though it can be for grid-tie). UL listing is a certification that your product meets certain safety standards and code. For some folks, this may be an issue if you are not using UL listed products in the US. Some insurance companies won't cover any losses if UL products aren't used. That why I plain to put my MPP PIP in a shed and not the house basement. Rather use a shed than a home is insurance won't cover it.
I’m not sure if you ever saw the movie Apollo 13 but the order in which you turn things on makes a difference. You should have started the saw up first
The amount of ripple was quite surprising and probably a source of radio interference, though I don't know how normal it is. I would have expected something a lot smoother.
PipeManPeep and clearly not connected to the AC. Probe was just picking up by stray capacitive coupling, which greatly exaggerates the switching noise.
Excellent 5 KW 2 phase ( 120 & 240 AC V ) inverters # David when U connected UR space heater ( 4800 Watts /h ) it was working , means 2 separate 2.5 KW inverters in this single 5 KW/h inverter are interconnected ( parallel or series ) otherwise UR 4800 KW / h space heater wouldn't work #
This bolts unscrewing at 1:22 was a bit nerve wrecking. Please use plastic wrenches, or put the two boxes further apart. The cable at 1:33 could easily spring back and touch the other terminals too.
You should look into smart start /easy start kits. They lower L.R.A start up by 75%. I've seen 16,000 btu compressors start easily with just a 2000w generator from using a smart start kit.
DEAR DAVID ALL MY LIVE I NEVER BAY HIGH FRCWANCY ITS RABSH LOW FRCWANCY 6000W WITH GOOD BATTERIES Y CAN RUN EVERYTHING ANY WAY I KNOW AND I TRUST YOUR WORK THANK Y
It's just a couple cheap high frequency inverters stuffed in there - you want to power inductive motor loads, big beefy and heavy low frequency inverters with massive surge capabilities like Aims is always the way to go.
David, cool vid! One question/thought: I found myself cringing when you were using metal wrenches around the positive & negative junction boxes. I kept envisioning a wrench slipping and banging around, making magic smoke and flashes. Any chance of putting a shelf/barrier between the two boxes to mitigate that risk? (or am I being overly cautious/scaredy cat?)
So they just put two inverters in one chassis lol? That's interesting. I guess that explains the higher idle consumption then. It's disappointing to see that wouldn't start a miter saw... Unfortunately, I doubt it's going to start his well pump :(
I seem to be having the same type of problems! The batteries can carry small loads, but will not power shop equipment or the refrigerator. I was told it could power an entire house, and two could "power a village" Did you ever figure it out? HELP!!!!.
The heater test only has a small wattage fan motor and resistive loads do not have surge amps .The saw test with vac if you had gone into the other leg of 240 it would have worked fine .However You exceeded the surge amps on your inverter but their is a solid solution .After your inverter install a capacitor bank ( soft start is similar but this would apply to the invert not just one leg ) .Yes,a capacitor bank.Here is why as you start a motor you increase amperage and it will lower voltage on a closely sized or undersized service .Hence why in a grid system in a house with an older pre ac electric service your light would dim a little or a lot as the case maybe as the AC came on .this event the heaven draw down is Tripp’s the invert safety as exceeds the output capability .In industrial plants where you have big machines with big electric loads you run into the same issue .Yes, a couple of big machines coming on at the same time can dim the lights ,trip a main and damage equipment.So the use either capacitors ( or very large motors not good for solar they are a power pig ) however capacitors will work just fine . No ,it shouldn’t damage your inverter .There are capacitors in the psc motors and start gear on AC , refrigeration units as it is to provide the extra push to get a unit started and keep it running . All you are doing is giving that circuit a boost from the capacitors during starting so they don’t draw down so hard on the inverter taking some of the stress of that inverter .Run the math give it try make a video on it .you will be shocked on just how well it works.Note : this is only to help with surge amps and will do nothing if you load up any circuit beyond its operational circuit draw.It just helps deal its start up nuisance trips in closely sized systems where surge amps can push thing over the top .A bonus it also will act as a form a surge protection and help clean up power even more .
There's is a way of getting the full 5kw Out of 120v By linking jump both inputs into one And same for both outputs. Under Setting 28 set to 2p1 or 2A0
16:10 David, I don't know if anyone has mentioned in the comments of this video. That chop/miter saw start up surge may be helped greatly by having some sort of A/C capacitor bank set up to handle the surge. Large central A/C systems use them for the compressors & condenser fans have them for similar purposes, however the fan uses the cap for single phase start up. I'm not sure how many uF or F (FARADS) the caps would need to be for that saw. Might be help to you to save the life of a few inverters in the future. Good Luck Man & Nice job on your video content so far. You're a fast learner it seems. RLTW!!
The Lv 5048 can be switched to 120 volt AC only, running both it’s inverters in parallel thus it can do a chopsaw with sudden surge but only if it is not set up as 240 volts, cause then each leg is limited to 2500 watts.
Since these inverters are able to operate in parallel, adding a second or third inverter would likely solve the high surge problem. But, of course, that would cost as much or more than a single beast of a LF inverter that could easily handle all the loads with much less complexity.
You can convert a so-called 'high frequency' inverter to a so-called 'low frequency' inverter by feeding the inverter output into an interposing transformer. That MPP 5048 would've launched that miter saw easily if it was driving it thru a transformer. You would feed the inverter's 240Vac into a 240 to 120-N-120 transformer. When you do this the entire output of the 240 connected side is available on just one of the 120 outputs. Furthermore the source the miter saw would see would now include the impedance of the transformer. This automatically limits what the saw can even demand of the primary source, (the inverter). A simplified explanation of this is that all the inverter's output goes into producing a magnetic field that crosses the iron core of the transformer. What harnesses this magnetic flux is whatever demands it from the other side. It could be perfectly matched half one 120 side and half the other or it could be all of one of the 120 windings or anything in between. Do remember that unless correctly sized for it transformers don't expect to have everything running out thru just one half of their secondaries but for brief starting surges it's not a problem.
Great video, what additional parts will need to connect this inverter to my main home panel to power on lights and fridge in the house when power outage occur? extention cord is limited and inconvience, thank you!
You'll need a critical load panel that is not your primary circuit breaker panel. Then you'll need all the cables to connect the inverter to the battery and inverter to the breaker.
You didn't mention the well pump's current/wattage requirements or the Miter Saw's current/wattage requirements. Did you try the Miter saw alone and nothing on the other phase ?
Shouldn’t really run big brushed motors off inverters if possible it’s very hard on them and if you have to put a couple caps in line not only will they help start the motor they will also protect the inverter to some degree
It's intended to be used with a large battery bank. I have a 23kwh LiFePO4 battery pack and it could handle that 75 watt load for almost 246 hours (more than ten days), before the pack would be at 20%, if nothing else was running. And, that inverter is also designed to be connected to two strings of solar panels that ostensibly would be sized to charge the battery bank inside of 5 hours of full sun. So, in a properly designed and implemented system, that 75 watts is trivial. Large inverters are simply going to draw more power than small inverters while idling. So, if 75 watts is too much for you, use a smaller inverter and plan on running smaller loads.
When u test the Line and Neutral on the Growatt what are the reading on the meter does touching both the L & N with the meter = out to be 240 ? im trying to find out if line is 120 and neutral is 120 to give u the 240v or are they both 240 on the Growatt
Manufacture should set the default setting 28 from 2A0 to 2A2. I connected the 48v batteries and grid power and tested the unit with a 1875 hair dryer was working perfect but I put another 1875 watts hair dryer then it started beeping crazy. I turned of unit it still beeps, I gotta disconnect the battery for couple hours to get rid of the buzz noise. Then I changed the setting to 2A2 both hair dyers were working. Note: If you can change the setting 28 turn it off you have 20 seconds to change.
You must have some settings off. I own 2 of these units even when I only had 1 installed I was able to run my entire house and some of my barn along with my 3 ton heat pump and we'll pump. I only installed the second unit because I would occasionally over draw it. Now running 2 units I have never overdrawn them. I remember while setting up my unit I had some settings off and it acted like what you are seeing
Can you remember what needed to change or can you recommend what to watch out for when setting this up? I'm about to use one of these myself for an off-grid system. Thank you!
Can you just run 2 - 110 v outlets straight from the unit or you have to go 240 to 110 like you did ? I’m wondering so I can run 2 Soave heaters separately
Yes it is. I plan on sharing more about it. Right now it's only connected as a cell monitor. I have to connect it to the shunt so I can read amps. Once I finish the install then I'll do a video on it.
A better way around a lot of the high load and high surge issues is to get them off the main inverter. Things like well pumps, air compressors, tank hot water heaters, old style ovens, welders, etc do not need pure sine wave inverters. Most of those things require dedicated wiring so it is often easier to put them on a MUCH cheaper(non pure sine inverter). This also allows you to run a smaller (more cost effective) inverter for the house. Most of the time once you pull those high load items off the inverter you can drop back to a 120V inverter for the main house.
No thats wrong inductive loads do need pure sine wave to start properly but Is resistive loads don't care if pure or modified sine wave!!
Re the scope settings I can see ch1 is set to 100mV per division ch2 50V per division. So
I think you are seeing noise on neutral in channel 1. Channel 2 looks good and just need to change the gain on ch1 to match. Happy inverting !
David, great video.
I have a similar setup to your friend, using LV5048 tied to the utility, 2x270W of solar panels and using a 14s/1p LEAF battery (48V).
I built it to provide emergency power for my pumphouse. It's connected to a 240V 1.5HP BOOST PUMP. I didn't bother with the well pump since we have a 2500gallon tank.
The LV5048 is awesome. My system runs very reliably with the utility on or off (simulating a power down), and provides the inrush current required by the BOOST PUMP motor.
Measured battery load in normal operation is 38A, but there is an inrush current of 143A (3.7x). BTW, the settings I used for the LEAF Li-Ion battery were VMAX=57.4V, VMIN=47.6V.
The inrush current is a huge issue especially for inverters. It seems that if you size the inverter to support the inrush current of the mitre saw, it might have to 4x bigger than you really need.
An alternative would be to 'soft start' the motors, but for some applications they do rely on a huge inrush current if under load from the start.
Brian
I recently purchased this inverter and have been testing it out with some old lead acid batteries while I finish building my 18650 DIY Powerwall. I really like the unit so far considering the capabilities versus the price. It runs my old beer fridge and mancave air conditioner with no problems.
I bought this inverter for my well pump also and it runs my well pump and my septic pump at the same time. It well for me.
Thanks.
I am looking to backup my well pump and septic also. What size pump do you have? Mine is 1.5 hp submersible. Thanks.
Coz you didn't split the max output. Just a guess
You wait till you get your SMA Sunny Island setup and running, you will be impressed, no noise, and it has handled everything I've thrown at mine over the last year !!!!
$5000 !!!!
I trust you've noticed that the probe for channel 1 of your scope was not connected correctly. It was showing only 100 millivolts of noise. Channel two was using the 50V per division scale and showed a good sine wave.
While the LV5048 inverter could not drive your saw, at least it didn't blow out like another one you tested.
For me this inverter is a non-starter due to its 145 V max solar input. My 20 solar panels are each 325 watts at 69V peak. I would have to run all my panels in parallel. Most existing home solar is hooked up in strings that can make around 450V max.
Thanks for the video.
@DIY Projects Good point! Here in sunny California the cheapest solution is simple series strings with MPPT inverters and it works well throughout the year. Your dual inverter setup confuses me. Are your inverters not MPPT? Otherwise I don't see why a smaller inverter maximizes PV. Better efficiency for the smaller inverter?
I believe you can put the unit in 2A0 mode (120V output, L1 and L2 in phase) and short the L1 and L2 outputs with a jumper to get full power (5000W) at 120V. This is what was recommended to me by Andy at MPPSolar and it worked.
how is this working for you? I am thinking of doing the same with mine.
Only if you dont have 240v input from grid. If you dont do the jumper the unit will not charge your batteries with grid. Some people trick the unit with jumper to make grid possible when 240v grid is not available.
Thank you for sharing this video David. I hope that this will work for your buddy's well pump. All depends on the horse power rating and the inrush current but since he needs 240 volts, there is a good chance that it will handle the load. And yes, transformer based inverter the way to go for an inductive loads. I guess the only disadvantage is- larger they are and while in idle, they draw more current on DC side. Thanks for your video, it does help when it comes to decision making on what type of inverter to buy.
and that makes so much sense that they'd build 2 parallel inverters as it saves weight ! Otherwise, you'd need a center tap transformer to create 230 split phase. Think Schneider, or Magnum north American products, the center tap transformer is inside the box. The problem is the weight ! They have to ship these things from Taiwan to the North American market. So I get it. Makes total sense. Now, the question is- "starting capacity" as a large center-tap transformer is like a large 'flywheel', it stores and releases energy thus yielding surge capacity for starting large motors. And now I'll watch the rest of your awesome video to find out the starting capacity result. Hoping it's good !
Sorry to disappoint (assuming you got the the end)
@@DavidPozEnergy I did I did and wow.... So sad !
Just installed a lv 5048 totally off grid system for a friend with a 240 volt well pump and in ran without and problem. I hooked up only 1 kw solar per side with 15 kw battery. Everything worked well, no problem. We’ll add more solar later.
Good to know. Thanks for sharing.
Hey David I am the guy with the retired SnapOn Truck I am turning into an off-grid tiny home on wheels. You are a freaking genius this stuff looks like Rocket Science to me. lol
I think you have a very cool project. I'm happy to help if you get stuck on something.
This is the channel i like to tune in to see test runnings of new and powerful Hi or LO FREQUENCY inverters . Some may or may not last but when it comes to that Mighty Table Saw , I will always say the large and more powerful LOW FREQUENCY inverters always rule over the HIGH FREQUENCY inverters .when it comes to loads that needs the most surge for the highest amp draw . Although the 8000 Watt new black RELIANCE was the only powerful HIGH FREQUENCY inverter I saw that could run those heavy loads with no problem . Always like your videos and MAY THE SOLAR BE WITH YOU for 2020 .
Thanks for the like .
Hi there! Try using some softstarter to avoid that current peak during start... it reaches around 8 times the nominal current, this might trip your system
The way it was setup was a 5000W at 240V or two separate 2500W at 120V so it will not work with your high 120V load set up this way. If you set it back to original I think you can parallel the 120V inverters as they will be in sink and then you have a single 5000W 120V inverter and will be able to power your higher power 120V loads.
This a very good question that should be answered by the manufacturer. In that item 28 when the setting was 2A0, Mr. Poz read 120 volts in each phase...but 0 volts between the hot cables....Hence, it might be possible that both inverters can work together to deal with huge surges!!!! I'm just saying...it is a good possibility...or maybe not...It should be answered by whoever designed this!!!!
tonymac96 it should have been turned off 240 split to max load it. His still don’t understand that he needs to run off more than basically a 2500 inverter for that power Hungary non soft start saw of his. I like learning from his over ambitious nature on high freak inverters that he to this day does not understand. . ....you MUST double or triple size these inverters. It’s not a low freak high $$$$ inverters!
@@6969smurfy yeah the starting inrush i imagine cooks a temp sensor.. then repeat the test... lol i run the same stuff on both phases fine. but i also shut my 5048 down when the dryer is running and i forget and start the microwave!! been off grid for 1.5 years with this rig.
Great gettn the 6548 120/240!
Thanks Dave.
I went with the PIP LV 6048 units (x2) instead. Each has Grd/L1/L2/N very easy to set up.
With 200Ah of Batteries, this set up can start my big 6Hp air compressor (Peak Amp on start is 27A 240 volt for a few seconds!) Super happy with the MPP units.
9 440W solar panels on the roof feed this system, 15A utility available for charging if no sun for a few days.
I noticed with one 6048 I also had trouble to start a chop saw, but no problem with the well pump. The unbalance error came up with the chop saw, and putting a smallish load (lights) on the other leg solved this generally, but occationally still an error. Later when i had two 6048 and two 100Ah batteries, no problem to start bigger motors even 120 volt ones. For anyone reading this, some items like air compressors may have motors that can be internally set for 120 or 240, by using 240 the amperage will be half and will always be in balance on the inverters.
I have 3 of these LV5048 units running in parallel. A couple of things to point out: First, by using the recommended spacing between the units per the manufacturer's own instructions (about 8") the cables they include aren't long enough to run from the first unit to the third unit, so you'll have to source an extension on your own for one of them. Second, they recently modified the manual to correct an error which inadvertently excluded the current sharing cables. Word to the wise - be sure to obtain the latest installation manual directly from MPP Solar and don't trust either the paper manual or just any old PDF copy you might find on Google. This would have saved me days of frustration.
Noel. How did you wire the 3 LV5048? Did you have 3 sets of panel going into each inverter separately?
did you try putting unit one in the middle, unit 2 on one side and unit 3 on the other side to make cables fit?
Hey look into the soft start add on that RV users use to get.past the in rush current on regular AC units.
Should work for his pump and chop saw
@Dave Zimmerman It should (in theory) When the compressor kicks in is when the inductive spike is created Same as a pump motor. Ask the manufactures tech support before you commit to buy.
Every time David does an inverter test with the miter saw, I think the very same thing. Put a soft start on that puppy. Problem solved!
I install soft starts on the AC unit(s) of every customer who'll opt for it. Smoothing the in-rush current is better overall and significantly extends the life of the compressor.
I believe the pump wold need to be a specific type of 3 wire pump to add a soft start kit.
You should have at least tried the miter saw by itself on the 120v mode bet it would work. and might even work on one leg by itself on the 240v setting but doubt it. It states in literature that it is 5000 watts 120v if placed in 120v mode
On your oscilloscope, have you looked at your house power, it will look smoother, the reason it shows two colors is so you can see and identify both channels while using it. Most large saws have to have a 30A. My saw won’t work on a 20A breaker either. If your friend uses a starting capacitor on both phases for his well that might help it to work for him. Very nice video.
He needs 2 units connected parallel to make 30amps
I've read in the manual you can combine the 2 120vac phase to create 5000w of 120vac.
I Would really liked to see this tested.
@@beneficialliving1314 Also... adding a second inverter in parallel... that would give you 5kw on each phase...
David Most of the time the issue with surge draws is the voltage drop on the DC side. Batteries just cannot respond on the sub millisecond time scale. The low frequency inverters have a large enough coil to store enough energy to give the batteries time enough to respond. IF you install a ultra capacitor bank in parallel with the batteries on a high frequency inverter it will have the same effect. Back in the 1980s when running CNCs in areas with "flickering" power we would install two transformers back to back. A step down transformer from 480 down tow 240 followed by a step up transformer from 220 up to 480. The coils would smooth out the surges and drops.
my camper system could not start the air conditioner because the batteries would droop at the inrush. Adding a 28 F super cap to the dc side fixed this. these are available for auto sub-woofer amps.
I've watched this video a few times because I originally considered purchasing the LV5048 for my new off-grid solar system. After considering possibly pairing two of them and all of the additional money to bring them connected and running with the panels I have it made me look at the Sol-Ark 12k.
This video was very helpful, I was considering this inverter for a system that would start multiple refrigeration units
Seeing it die from starting a miter saw motor with its comparatively much lower surge has told me to stay away from this for my application, not enough surge capacity
Glad I could help. I wish it did better.
Patrick, I think if this inverter were configured as 120v 5kw it would do the job. Instead Poz configured it as 2x 2.5kw inverters out of phase with each other. It should run the well pump in that config. I also seek a solution to run 3 fridges & freezers (along with other smaller 120v loads) and want to find a low cost way to do that. I think the MPP 5048 inverter is the answer.
Dude i run 4 fridge and 2 mini splits with no issues. I have 5kw of solar.
It is very easy to disable the speaker, you can do it from the front panel or the software loaded onto a pc or laptop
Give me a pair of Outback FX/FXR inverters any day. Throw in a couple of Outback Flexmax 80 controllers while you're at it. In the very rare instance that any of it goes down, I have redundancy,, critical for those of us who are totally off grid. (My first MX60 has been going strong since 2Q 2003)
Anyway, ten of the 24 volt LiFePo4 modules arrived a couple of days ago and testing has begun. So far, all cells look very good, coming into balance (
Great to hear they are shipping good batches. I hope they work out well for you.
I bought this also the only thing i EVER REGRET BUYING IS THOSE BATTLE BORN BATTERY I LISTED THEM FOR SALE AND BOUGHT THOSE LG CHEM THANKS DAVID
Line to Line voltage in a 2 phase system would be 208 volts not 240 volts, this is a split phase system as your title of the video implies. This system does not output 2 phase power but can output 240 volt single phase or from what you initially measured before changing setting 28; two separate 120 volt single phase power outputs. Thanks for the video, it's really helpful to watch someone actually set up one of these systems. You can see how well it's built and the features it has first hand, looks like a really nice system.
You can add a slow start modul on the saw, then it schould be fine =)
Thanks for the demo with the saw! Definitely going to take my basement workshop off grid. Good to know what to look for in an inverter.
David, after doing some testing and learning. It is highly likely that if you let it run as one phase it would have ran the saw no problem. It is advised to just leave the unit as single phase unless you need split phase. That would have allowed a surge of over 7kw of power which likely would have been no problem. Those with more than one unit don't see to have any issues with massive surge, or running a soft start.
I think with the Saw, if you pull the trigger for half second and let go, then pull again you might be able to get it to start up. You might need to do the pulse trigger 3 times. With the size of the blade that's a lot of mass to get rotating in a short amount of time.
I would recommend using a soft start kit on the pump, just so the inverter isn't getting hit full peak every time the pump kicks on. Altho, if the pump only pulls 50% load on each phase on startup, it'll probably be fine.
i am recommending a decent inverter
@@ursodermatt8809 What's wrong with this one other than it's just not enough surge to handle those loads?
@@korishan I would want an inverter to start saws and pumps and more importantly not breaking down after 3 weeks. That mob also has a habit of threatening legal action if you publicly complain
Dave, put the unit back in 120v mode, I'm guessing the surge will double and will run the dewalt miter saw, I'm guessing this is no different then a voltage switch on a generator that switches the windings to parallel vs out of phase. pretty sure the inverters will share the load in 120v mode.
true I was thinking the same, but still for that price its a little to much.
I hope his buddy's well pump is a light-duty model if it struggles that much with inductive load start-up.
@Richard Vaughn can you explain how you would wire this up to work? How big of one would you need?
@Richard Vaughn Your smart, Xc is interesting with AC, I just installed an Easy Start to my 15k btu roof AC on RV to run it off solar, my plan is to make it work this weekend, fingers crossed.
@tripplefives Thanks for the knowledge!
This is the only one of your videos I didn't love. You see I have a LV5048 and I has been working great supplying power to my home. I used common every day appliances with no problem. If I want to used appliances with high current draw or maybe buy an electric car I would just buy two more LV 5048. They are stackable. I still like the video though:)
Please make a follow up video after your friend will hook it up to his well pump, I’m very interested if it will run it. Thanks a lot for creating interesting content
I definitely want to.
Also very interested
I AM ALSO INTERESTED IN HOOKING UP A SOLAR TO MY 2.0HP WELL PUMP. I HAVE NOTE PURCHASED ANYTHING YET BUT WILL BE FOLLOWING YOU. SO FAR, I'M NOT CONVINCED IN PURCHASING THIS LV4058
Me 3
Me 4
This video definitely helped me , I was on the verge of purchasing this model however after this review I will revert to my original plan and do separate charge controler and inverter. At least if my inverter is rated at 5000 watts , I know that's what I'm getting .
Basing an important decision on Dave's amateur testing is not really a good idea.
Whew! I almost bought one of these. I went all-in on Schneider.
SolArk is better than Schneider: 8Kw SolArc vs 6Kw Schneider. SolArk is much more efficient.
@@guytech7310 "much"? 95% v 96%? Also considering cost, and functionality and the AWESOME deal I got for XW Pro, I'm VERY happy.
@@davidchristensen1219 Its Conext XW + is only about 88% efficient, not 95%.
www.sol-ark.com/sol-ark-8k-inverter-efficiency-tops-tesla/
Not according to the docs and my testing. Where are you getting your information?
I don't believe competitor specs. Peak efficiency on XW ~95% by my testing
Miter Saw - 1800 running watts, 3400 startup watts
Table Saw - 1800 running watts. 3500 startup watts
Circular Saw - 1800 running watts, 3200 startup watts
Power Tool Battery Charger - 330 watts
so that you need single phase 3500W or above so that 8KW inverter may required.
Thanks for posting this video. It's too bad the unit was not able to carry the miter saw. I noticed the saw was drawing 30-35 amps on initial startup. Surge is probably too quick to notice, but I'm thinking twice that. This unit is rated for 40 amps, though not surge. Beyond 40 it goes into bypass mode. My experience with other units is that if it says it's rated for 40 amps, for instance, it's either right at 40 or less. My guess is it can't really take on 30 amps. These particular units are made to be paralleled. I wonder if they might perform better with two or three (the maximum) at three phase. My guess is the maximum amps is 100 at that point....more than enough to run the miter saw. The unit can only take 145VDC so my guess are that panels are paralleled to produce higher amperage's for that quick surge. The units I use allow for higher voltages from the panels so I'm not burning up wires on the roof with high amperage. I prefer more inverter's paralleled with less amperage on the roof while handling high amperage to the load with a 'team' of inverter's sharing the load. Of course...that means more money too. Wished there were two of those units. I really wanted to see it perform in parallel.
Is it just me or does David seem to getting even bigger and more beastly with every video ? 💪
Probably due to those heavy interest he keeps lifting.
Hey Dave,
Thanks for the inverter info reply.
I've decided the outback has the best unit and they are local here in AZ.
Keep up the great videos.
Outback has a terrific reputation. I don't think you can go wrong with their products.
I was looking at this MPP-Solar All In One unit too. Now I know it has inputs for two sets of solar panels for the split phase output. I decided to try out (just order last week) one the 24v Hybrid from MPP Solar for up to 2400 Watt Solar input for about 20 amp 120v ac output in an all in one unit. Wondering about that 220/240 v ac sine wave you got. Thanks for your review
David, I imagine a solid state relay with zero crossing detector will prevent your inductive load switch on overload issue for the mitre saw.
First of all, I always enjoy your different videos, and have subscribed to your channel for a long time. So not trolling. I know you have said in the past that people freak out when you don’t use the incorrect term “split phase”, but no amount of freaking out will make wrong information become correct. There is no such thing as a split phase inverter, and each line “hot” is not a phase, just a “line”. It is a single phase inverter, two lines and a neutral. Specially 120/240 volt, single phase. About this inverter itself, a couple of things. 75 watts just to run with no load is absolutely appalling. And not being able to start that miter saw, even with only half of it at 2500 watts is almost as bad. That super annoying piezoelectric squeaker is Terrible! I like the built in charge controllers. And that’s pretty much it. It is amazing how far we haven’t come. My Trace Engineering inverter from twenty years ago is 4 kW continuous, but can surge to 10 kW, and believe me, I have tested it. I’ve run 3 hp induction motors with it. It’s no load input power is only 16 watts. No comparison. Well pumps are notorious for their high locked rotor KVA requirements, so I’d bet this unit won’t be up to the task, unless his well pump is particularly small. Take care, keep up the good work on your videos, and don’t be afraid to use correct terminology. The world is mostly full of the ignorant, but we don’t need to join them in their ignorance just because we are living solidly in the Misinformation Era. ;)
Single phase split in 2. Hence split phase.
Yeah, I understand how the incorrect information got started, and it sounds apt, but split phase is actually a type of motor.
Electrician or EE?
Hi David. You could connect a softstarter module between the inverter and the mitre saw. These are available for AC units etc.
What would be the capacity of he soft starter module?
😃 You so strong! I have to use the crank to lift it up to mount it to the wall! Jealous!
There is too much noise on the wave, thank you for this video. In fact, I have considered to buy it. maybe I have to choose the other one even expensive.
IMHO, noise was fine on one half, wait for it, DAVID KILLED THE SECOND HALF with his damn series wound saw!
You might try changing the setting back to single phase 120 and parallel L1 and L2 then try running them. It might work because I'm guessing the miter saw is drawing too much on one leg. but having both parallel it should be able to handle it, but if not not I'd consider it to be a good thing as it would prevent blowing mosfets.
I believe you’re correct. The instruction manual says to select “0” phase and connect L1 and L2 (parallel) to do exactly what you said. I think it would handle the miter saw.
He could replace his pump with a solar direct DC pump up to a cistern then run a less demanding pressure pump. If filtered and treated he could collect rainwater into the cistern.
Solar direct pump to an IBC tote, then a DC submersible pump for all the water necessary. Combine with propane tankless water heater, or something like a rocket stove/heat exchanger, for hot water.
@@ARepublicIfYouCanKeepIt proper 1000 gallon water tanks are cheap and better for sanitation. This would allow a buffer of water incase of emergency or solar/pump failure. If he lives on or near a hill then he could pump up to a gravity-feed water system. Solar thermal heated water would then be an option too, or some combination with a heat pump water heater that favored running mid-day.
"this saw killed some inverters in the past"
Tests the saw on his friends inverter:D
Yup. It was risky. If I killed this I would have been buying him a new inverter, but at least it would have made for a good video.
Courage is a good trait to have! 😀
It might help start the saw if you had ac capacitors to reduce the current draw on the inverter
Hi, I'm looking for one of these solar inverters for a van conversion. I have 2 solar panels with this spec - Watt: 310Wp, Max Snow Load: 5400Pa , 112lb/ft2, Max Voltage Vmp: 32.67V, Max Current Imp: 9.49A, Number of cells: 60, Open Circuit Volts: 40.08V, Short Circuit Amps: 9.28A, Module Efficiency: 19.00%, Max System Volts: 1000VDC, Power Tolerance: 0 - 3%, Max Series Fuse: 15A. What's the best inverter and battery setup to go with for two of these solar panels? Any help would be hugely appreciated.
That saw has must have killer inrush current load, try adding something like a 5 to 10 ohm power resistor in series with the saw to limit the inrush. You will need to experiment to find the lowest value that will not trip the inverter when the saw starts. Also wire a switch across the resistor so you can bypass the resistor once the saw motor starts turning before making a cut. If this works then you can make an automatic equivalent with a relay that will automatically bypass the resistor after the motor starts. The series resistor is only needed for less than a second. Once the motor starts turning the the motor's back EMF will significantly lower the saw's load current requirement.
Very interesting Craig !
Good idea! a cheap delay on relay from Ebay would seem to do the trick.... relay starts out in normally open, and the only way to get power to the saw is via your reististor. The 5 seconds later the relay goes closed and shunts across the resistor effectively bypassing it. Great idea.
Use a cheap timer delay on relay from ebay. Route power thru resistor to saw. Relay turns on and shunts across relay in 5 seconds effectively bypassing the resistor.
L1 and L2 on the o-scope did not appear to be 180° out. Looked more like inverter was set up for 3 phase @ 120°. Still that wouldn't have influenced your tests on the 120 legs though.
Thanks for the great video!
Very nice review David! I would love to buy a 10000 watt version of this.
Buy 2 and parallel them. See here: th-cam.com/video/uk-d-kgiD5I/w-d-xo.html
Would like to have seen the scope before trying any loads? Wondering if the different scans might mean a bad mosfett or something ? I haven't had much experience with scopes, I only have one of those little kits I built, but it shows when there are proper sine waves and I have never seen a spastic looking line like that on anything that was working. I'm sure someone has the explanation, maybe Electro Boom is watching?
You'll need to learn how to operate oscilloscope with EEVBlog :D
Would have also liked to see if it could switch over to the AC IN bypass when it encounters an overload situation.
Nice video David, lot’s of good testing happening. MPP is pretty good for all-in-one no frills setup. I’m looking at the PIP single phase for my outdoor project. With no UL certification, makes it a no go for an inside install...
It's not that inside install is not good. It's just not certified to feed back into the grid. All Mpp inverters switch to grid when load is out of it's reach. But they are good for it's limits.
@@mexicanracer03 Backfeeding to the grid is not the issue here (though it can be for grid-tie). UL listing is a certification that your product meets certain safety standards and code. For some folks, this may be an issue if you are not using UL listed products in the US. Some insurance companies won't cover any losses if UL products aren't used. That why I plain to put my MPP PIP in a shed and not the house basement. Rather use a shed than a home is insurance won't cover it.
@@GreenMountainDIYGuy makes perfect sense. Thank you for elaborating on that.
I’m not sure if you ever saw the movie Apollo 13 but the order in which you turn things on makes a difference. You should have started the saw up first
Wish inverters would draw a lot less just idling. 1.7kwh a day just to be on is crazy. Would need small string to make up for its use
The amount of ripple was quite surprising and probably a source of radio interference, though I don't know how normal it is. I would have expected something a lot smoother.
It's the scope setting. Channel 1 was set to 100mV/div.
PipeManPeep and clearly not connected to the AC. Probe was just picking up by stray capacitive coupling, which greatly exaggerates the switching noise.
Excellent 5 KW 2 phase ( 120 & 240 AC V ) inverters # David when U connected UR space heater ( 4800 Watts /h ) it was working , means 2 separate 2.5 KW inverters in this single 5 KW/h inverter are interconnected ( parallel or series ) otherwise UR 4800 KW / h space heater wouldn't work #
This bolts unscrewing at 1:22 was a bit nerve wrecking. Please use plastic wrenches, or put the two boxes further apart. The cable at 1:33 could easily spring back and touch the other terminals too.
I have plastic covers I'm going to install.
You should look into smart start /easy start kits. They lower L.R.A start up by 75%. I've seen 16,000 btu compressors start easily with just a 2000w generator from using a smart start kit.
@6:19 *FINALLY!!! Someone using a [censored] precharge resistor.*
(I guess you didn't want to risk blowing up someone else's $1500 inverter.)
LOL. No, I didn't want to blow it on my friend. I learned about the resistor thing after I had a capacitor pop off a board right in front of me.
DEAR DAVID ALL MY LIVE I NEVER BAY HIGH FRCWANCY ITS RABSH LOW FRCWANCY 6000W WITH GOOD BATTERIES Y CAN RUN EVERYTHING ANY WAY I KNOW AND I TRUST YOUR WORK THANK Y
It's just a couple cheap high frequency inverters stuffed in there - you want to power inductive motor loads, big beefy and heavy low frequency inverters with massive surge capabilities like Aims is always the way to go.
David, cool vid! One question/thought: I found myself cringing when you were using metal wrenches around the positive & negative junction boxes. I kept envisioning a wrench slipping and banging around, making magic smoke and flashes.
Any chance of putting a shelf/barrier between the two boxes to mitigate that risk? (or am I being overly cautious/scaredy cat?)
happy new year 2020 David to you and your family
I mean, the MPP products are solid, but they aren't UL/ETL listed. Nonstarter for me, and so should be for anyone in the US.
So they just put two inverters in one chassis lol? That's interesting. I guess that explains the higher idle consumption then. It's disappointing to see that wouldn't start a miter saw... Unfortunately, I doubt it's going to start his well pump :(
I bet the AIMS would start several of those miter saws at the same time ;)
Yeah. I could not overload my 6kw Aims with surges. I only ever overloaded it if the water heater kicked on at the same time as the oven.
Connect similar units via fuses WITH inrush protection. That will dampen the inital inrush and make it possible to run such units.
I seem to be having the same type of problems! The batteries can carry small loads, but will not power shop equipment or the refrigerator. I was told it could power an entire house, and two could "power a village" Did you ever figure it out? HELP!!!!.
The heater test only has a small wattage fan motor and resistive loads do not have surge amps .The saw test with vac if you had gone into the other leg of 240 it would have worked fine .However You exceeded the surge amps on your inverter but their is a solid solution .After your inverter install a capacitor bank ( soft start is similar but this would apply to the invert not just one leg ) .Yes,a capacitor bank.Here is why as you start a motor you increase amperage and it will lower voltage on a closely sized or undersized service .Hence why in a grid system in a house with an older pre ac electric service your light would dim a little or a lot as the case maybe as the AC came on .this event the heaven draw down is Tripp’s the invert safety as exceeds the output capability .In industrial plants where you have big machines with big electric loads you run into the same issue .Yes, a couple of big machines coming on at the same time can dim the lights ,trip a main and damage equipment.So the use either capacitors ( or very large motors not good for solar they are a power pig ) however capacitors will work just fine . No ,it shouldn’t damage your inverter .There are capacitors in the psc motors and start gear on AC , refrigeration units as it is to provide the extra push to get a unit started and keep it running . All you are doing is giving that circuit a boost from the capacitors during starting so they don’t draw down so hard on the inverter taking some of the stress of that inverter .Run the math give it try make a video on it .you will be shocked on just how well it works.Note : this is only to help with surge amps and will do nothing if you load up any circuit beyond its operational circuit draw.It just helps deal its start up nuisance trips in closely sized systems where surge amps can push thing over the top .A bonus it also will act as a form a surge protection and help clean up power even more .
There's is a way of getting the full 5kw Out of 120v
By linking jump both inputs into one
And same for both outputs.
Under Setting 28 set to 2p1 or 2A0
16:10 David, I don't know if anyone has mentioned in the comments of this video. That chop/miter saw start up surge may be helped greatly by having some sort of A/C capacitor bank set up to handle the surge. Large central A/C systems use them for the compressors & condenser fans have them for similar purposes, however the fan uses the cap for single phase start up. I'm not sure how many uF or F (FARADS) the caps would need to be for that saw. Might be help to you to save the life of a few inverters in the future. Good Luck Man & Nice job on your video content so far. You're a fast learner it seems. RLTW!!
Go ahead with Part2
Once again great vlog.
i think this unit has a feature when it overloads it will transfer to AC grid if you plug it on AC wall
The Lv 5048 can be switched to 120 volt AC only, running both it’s inverters in parallel thus it can do a chopsaw with sudden surge but only if it is not set up as 240 volts, cause then each leg is limited to 2500 watts.
can you do a test with am alternator only to the inverter no battery using permanent magnets to spin the alternator
Since these inverters are able to operate in parallel, adding a second or third inverter would likely solve the high surge problem. But, of course, that would cost as much or more than a single beast of a LF inverter that could easily handle all the loads with much less complexity.
True, but then you'd still need to buy a solar charge controller and/or battery charger. This unit includes those features as well
I'd like to see two of these in parallel... Then see if the load is shared across the inverters on each phase with your monster Dewalt saw.
th-cam.com/video/uk-d-kgiD5I/w-d-xo.html
Good inverter!!! Tnx from Russia!
You can convert a so-called 'high frequency' inverter to a so-called 'low frequency' inverter by feeding the inverter output into an interposing transformer. That MPP 5048 would've launched that miter saw easily if it was driving it thru a transformer. You would feed the inverter's 240Vac into a 240 to 120-N-120 transformer. When you do this the entire output of the 240 connected side is available on just one of the 120 outputs. Furthermore the source the miter saw would see would now include the impedance of the transformer. This automatically limits what the saw can even demand of the primary source, (the inverter).
A simplified explanation of this is that all the inverter's output goes into producing a magnetic field that crosses the iron core of the transformer. What harnesses this magnetic flux is whatever demands it from the other side. It could be perfectly matched half one 120 side and half the other or it could be all of one of the 120 windings or anything in between. Do remember that unless correctly sized for it transformers don't expect to have everything running out thru just one half of their secondaries but for brief starting surges it's not a problem.
That's exactly what my friend Ben did with his. He showed that off in this video: th-cam.com/video/6nxH9_GmCiU/w-d-xo.html
Great video, what additional parts will need to connect this inverter to my main home panel to power on lights and fridge in the house when power outage occur? extention cord is limited and inconvience, thank you!
You'll need a critical load panel that is not your primary circuit breaker panel. Then you'll need all the cables to connect the inverter to the battery and inverter to the breaker.
I see these units aren't available right now. Do you know if the lv6048wp is the newer model that does the split phase in one unit?
You didn't mention the well pump's current/wattage requirements or the Miter Saw's current/wattage requirements. Did you try the Miter saw alone and nothing on the other phase ?
Could you show AC output connected to a transfer box leading into the house breaker box.
Shouldn’t really run big brushed motors off inverters if possible it’s very hard on them and if you have to put a couple caps in line not only will they help start the motor they will also protect the inverter to some degree
6:51 At 75 Watts doing NOTHING this thing will drain your "backup battery if the grid goes down" bank really quickly!
It's intended to be used with a large battery bank. I have a 23kwh LiFePO4 battery pack and it could handle that 75 watt load for almost 246 hours (more than ten days), before the pack would be at 20%, if nothing else was running. And, that inverter is also designed to be connected to two strings of solar panels that ostensibly would be sized to charge the battery bank inside of 5 hours of full sun. So, in a properly designed and implemented system, that 75 watts is trivial. Large inverters are simply going to draw more power than small inverters while idling. So, if 75 watts is too much for you, use a smaller inverter and plan on running smaller loads.
I have an Aims 10k inverter and it draws 150 watts That is 3300 watts my panels have to produce in a day just to run it.
When u test the Line and Neutral on the Growatt what are the reading on the meter does touching both the L & N with the meter = out to be 240 ? im trying to find out if line is 120 and neutral is 120 to give u the 240v or are they both 240 on the Growatt
Manufacture should set the default setting 28 from 2A0 to 2A2.
I connected the 48v batteries and grid power and tested the unit with a 1875 hair dryer was working perfect but I put another 1875 watts hair dryer then it started beeping crazy.
I turned of unit it still beeps, I gotta disconnect the battery for couple hours to get rid of the buzz noise.
Then I changed the setting to 2A2 both hair dyers were working.
Note: If you can change the setting 28 turn it off you have 20 seconds to change.
hello,
thank you for this video. it was very valuable information for me.
a big thank for you
.
You must have some settings off. I own 2 of these units even when I only had 1 installed I was able to run my entire house and some of my barn along with my 3 ton heat pump and we'll pump. I only installed the second unit because I would occasionally over draw it. Now running 2 units I have never overdrawn them. I remember while setting up my unit I had some settings off and it acted like what you are seeing
Can you remember what needed to change or can you recommend what to watch out for when setting this up? I'm about to use one of these myself for an off-grid system. Thank you!
Can you just run 2 - 110 v outlets straight from the unit or you have to go 240 to 110 like you did ? I’m wondering so I can run 2 Soave heaters separately
Very nice video David.
is that a chargery bms on the battery bank if so could you please do a review on it.
Yes it is. I plan on sharing more about it. Right now it's only connected as a cell monitor. I have to connect it to the shunt so I can read amps. Once I finish the install then I'll do a video on it.
@@DavidPozEnergy thank you i look forward to seeing it