Fantastic. I watch a lot of these videos on different channels and you including the payback based off of current fuel cost is top notch!! 6 year payback is a no brainer. I really like the furring strips to reduce the thermal bridging as well. Speaking of thermal bridging can you put Pole Barn on your list of videos to make? I'm researching how to insulate my completed 30x40 pole barn in Northern Idaho. 8 ft on center posts with no house wrap. So far buying used foam boards seems like the best bang for my buck, but how to install as well as water and vapor barrier is confusing me. Put the foam boards against the metal siding or leave an air gap for example. Use a combination of foam and fiberglass bats? Edit: This will be a 7 day a week 5-8 hour a day home workshop. Not a residence. Doubtful the slab is insulated, but I will be digging down and insulating the perimeter with foam boards. Thanks for these videos!!
Hey Bob. That is certainly an option and when and where we choose to do that is case dependent. The roof video of this little series will be out next month and we did the roof in that manner. In a production and budget setting, it's my opinion that it's hard to beat nailing on the furring and insulating between the strips and the gains are substantial. For someone who has a little more time and money to apply furring through foam, and who doesn't mind losing another 1-1/2" living space to wall thickness, then continuous foam board is a good way to go. Mind the dew point. This video was shot in climate zone 8, so 1-1/2" of foam (R-7) is probably the max. We've done this all kinds of ways and continue to debate the nuance of the methods. I think that debate is important. Thanks for the input.
Curious about the longevity of the vapor barrier with those furring strips. Eventually people are going to want to nail into that wall to hold pictures or shelving or whatever else. When you run a stud finder along the finished wall, will people be nailing into the studs or will they nail into the furring and puncture the barrier behind it?
Although certainly undesirable, a few holes in wall vapor retarders are hard to avoid regardless of how the wall is built. Placing the vapor retarder any kind of distance behind the interior cladding is a good start. What is important is building with wall assemblies that can handle some wetting events and still dry out.
Can you elaborate on your statement that you get about the same R value per inch with a squished fiberglass bat as with foam board? The R21 bat needs 5.5 inches for it to be R21. If you split it, you will need 2.75 inches to make R-10. If you squish it down to half that you get a lot less R. Some will say it's a lot less than half the R, because you removed a lot of the air and the actual glass conducts heat. Others say that you get about half. In either case, you would end up with R5 or less in your 1.5 inch space. Can you please comment? Love this channel!
From the Insulfoam specs, the published r-values per inch for the 15 psi R-tech foam board we used vary from R-4.6/inch at 40F to R-4.2/inch at 75F So, using those numbers for a 1-1/2” thick furring space, we get R-6.9 and R-6.3 respectively. By comparison, if I take that R-21 fiberglass batt in the video without compressing it and calculate r-value per inch, then I get R-3.8 per inch - so a 1-1/2" furring bay will get R-5.7 (not too shabby). Where it gets interesting is when that R-21 half batt in the video at R-10.5 gets compressed, we are getting a little bit over R-6 total per Owens Corning compressed R-value table. ***Unfortunately I went through some major contortions trying to post that table in this comment but youtube keeps denying it. So, I don't know the best way to send you the link to that table. One way would be to go to the 'contact us' link on the cchrc home page and in the message subject just say "R-value table request for Ilya" and it will get sent to me along with your contact info. Then I can send you the information to the email you provide. I wish youtoube would make this process easier. Over the years in my conversations with the field reps and engineers for various fiberglass insulation companies, it seems the batts can handle quite a bit of compression before the r-value per inch starts going the other direction (and ultimately you end up with solid glass). I theorize this increase in r-value occurs because at the start of the compression process it actually increases the number of air spaces into the matrix, which in turn raises the r-value per inch. I also suspect that from the manufacturers cost perspective, at scale it takes significantly more product to increase the density needed to make comparatively small overall gains in r-value. On the flip side, taking into account current foam board prices here in Fairbanks, the economics of splitting and compressing r-21 batts penciled out to our liking. As an aside, I have seen this r-value increase with density when working with Knauf on a blown-in insulation project where the dense packed fiberglass at 1.8 lbs/cuft was also getting us about R-4.2 per inch. I hope this helps.
Why not insulate the exterior with full sheets? Siding is already off... (Unless you did it this way because most people don't have the siding off on their cabins...)
CCHRC has a fantastic guidebook on remote insulation and it's benefits. I think this video is focused on those folks who have decided to go with something on the interior. I did remote insulation on my house and it's amazing, but I would say that the labor input is WAY higher...if you are working for yourself and have free foam it's great though.
I've read that you must have significantly more foam if placed on the outside (maybe 5-6" in this case?) to prevent moisture problems from condensation between the two types of insulation.
Thanks for another great video Ilya and CCHRC! Sent this to a friend who is trying to keep costs down on a cabin:)
Good video. So much to learn. Are you planning on addressing improvements to the flooring system?
Amazing video as always 👏
Fantastic. I watch a lot of these videos on different channels and you including the payback based off of current fuel cost is top notch!! 6 year payback is a no brainer.
I really like the furring strips to reduce the thermal bridging as well. Speaking of thermal bridging can you put Pole Barn on your list of videos to make?
I'm researching how to insulate my completed 30x40 pole barn in Northern Idaho. 8 ft on center posts with no house wrap. So far buying used foam boards seems like the best bang for my buck, but how to install as well as water and vapor barrier is confusing me.
Put the foam boards against the metal siding or leave an air gap for example.
Use a combination of foam and fiberglass bats?
Edit: This will be a 7 day a week 5-8 hour a day home workshop. Not a residence. Doubtful the slab is insulated, but I will be digging down and insulating the perimeter with foam boards.
Thanks for these videos!!
Add continuous foam board first (or Rockwool) and then add the fur out strips on top Bob in Nevada.
Hey Bob. That is certainly an option and when and where we choose to do that is case dependent. The roof video of this little series will be out next month and we did the roof in that manner. In a production and budget setting, it's my opinion that it's hard to beat nailing on the furring and insulating between the strips and the gains are substantial. For someone who has a little more time and money to apply furring through foam, and who doesn't mind losing another 1-1/2" living space to wall thickness, then continuous foam board is a good way to go. Mind the dew point. This video was shot in climate zone 8, so 1-1/2" of foam (R-7) is probably the max. We've done this all kinds of ways and continue to debate the nuance of the methods. I think that debate is important. Thanks for the input.
Curious about the longevity of the vapor barrier with those furring strips. Eventually people are going to want to nail into that wall to hold pictures or shelving or whatever else. When you run a stud finder along the finished wall, will people be nailing into the studs or will they nail into the furring and puncture the barrier behind it?
Although certainly undesirable, a few holes in wall vapor retarders are hard to avoid regardless of how the wall is built. Placing the vapor retarder any kind of distance behind the interior cladding is a good start. What is important is building with wall assemblies that can handle some wetting events and still dry out.
LOOKS LIKE A REALLY RIDICULOUS AND TIME-CONSUMING PROCESS.
Can you elaborate on your statement that you get about the same R value per inch with a squished fiberglass bat as with foam board? The R21 bat needs 5.5 inches for it to be R21. If you split it, you will need 2.75 inches to make R-10. If you squish it down to half that you get a lot less R. Some will say it's a lot less than half the R, because you removed a lot of the air and the actual glass conducts heat. Others say that you get about half. In either case, you would end up with R5 or less in your 1.5 inch space. Can you please comment?
Love this channel!
From the Insulfoam specs, the published r-values per inch for the 15 psi R-tech foam board we used vary from R-4.6/inch at 40F to R-4.2/inch at 75F So, using those numbers for a 1-1/2” thick furring space, we get R-6.9 and R-6.3 respectively. By comparison, if I take that R-21 fiberglass batt in the video without compressing it and calculate r-value per inch, then I get R-3.8 per inch - so a 1-1/2" furring bay will get R-5.7 (not too shabby). Where it gets interesting is when that R-21 half batt in the video at R-10.5 gets compressed, we are getting a little bit over R-6 total per Owens Corning compressed R-value table. ***Unfortunately I went through some major contortions trying to post that table in this comment but youtube keeps denying it. So, I don't know the best way to send you the link to that table. One way would be to go to the 'contact us' link on the cchrc home page and in the message subject just say "R-value table request for Ilya" and it will get sent to me along with your contact info. Then I can send you the information to the email you provide. I wish youtoube would make this process easier.
Over the years in my conversations with the field reps and engineers for various fiberglass insulation companies, it seems the batts can handle quite a bit of compression before the r-value per inch starts going the other direction (and ultimately you end up with solid glass). I theorize this increase in r-value occurs because at the start of the compression process it actually increases the number of air spaces into the matrix, which in turn raises the r-value per inch. I also suspect that from the manufacturers cost perspective, at scale it takes significantly more product to increase the density needed to make comparatively small overall gains in r-value. On the flip side, taking into account current foam board prices here in Fairbanks, the economics of splitting and compressing r-21 batts penciled out to our liking. As an aside, I have seen this r-value increase with density when working with Knauf on a blown-in insulation project where the dense packed fiberglass at 1.8 lbs/cuft was also getting us about R-4.2 per inch. I hope this helps.
@@wtseak Thanks a lot for the detailed response. I found the compressed R-value table. That settles a few discussions I have had.
Why not insulate the exterior with full sheets? Siding is already off...
(Unless you did it this way because most people don't have the siding off on their cabins...)
CCHRC has a fantastic guidebook on remote insulation and it's benefits. I think this video is focused on those folks who have decided to go with something on the interior. I did remote insulation on my house and it's amazing, but I would say that the labor input is WAY higher...if you are working for yourself and have free foam it's great though.
Hi Kevin. He mentioned being on a "really tight budget" and fiberglass bats are way cheaper than full sheet exterior foam.
I've read that you must have significantly more foam if placed on the outside (maybe 5-6" in this case?) to prevent moisture problems from condensation between the two types of insulation.
did anyone ever tell you that you look like sam hyde?